Is there room for more than one continutity in the DCU?

[MRMIRACLE]

There was a brief discussion on the Static board about Black Lightning being consigned to limbo by the promotion of Static, who in all fairness has proven a more valuable property, because the two have superficial racial and capability similarities. One of the things about the DCU is that it's collected a vast (sometimes redundant) array of characters and genres as it accreted and acquired properties over the decades. That makes for a lot of diversity. Now, in today's obsessively continuity- and event-driven comics market, there's only room for so many characters in a continuity, if the characters have to live in the same environment. But do they have to?

I'm not suggesting migrating some of the characters off to the different worlds that emerged from the miniseries 52, but what if we treated some of these characters and genres as different from others? Consider:

How many of us have daily lives, dominating concerns, and situations that demand our attention that are very different from those of a solider in the middle east, a store keeper in Chicago, an accountant in New Orleans, a PETA activist in Atlanta, or a factory worker in Seattle? Would it not stand to reason that characters in the DCU might be similarly disconnected from one another?

Would characters like Batman and Green Arrow really go around getting themselves neck-deep in the kind of calamities that draw the attention of Superman or Green Lantern? Even if they did, would that necessarily translate to characters like Manhunter, Black Lightning or Static? Does it really help a property to involve a character like Red Robin in an event that encompasses heavy weights like the Spectre? Could DC make sub-imprints work that segregate groups of characters with similar geographic and/or threat-type concerns, each of which might be aimed at slightly different buyer markets?

In an approach like that, there might be room for a Static title that focuses on more typical superhero stories, and for a Black Lightning feature that focuses more on street level crime. The environments would essentially ignore one another, the same way the daily concerns of an airline pilot are probably a good bit different than those of a naval aviator. Major events would still be possible among these smaller communities. After all, a gang war can be just as devastating as an alien invasion if you're living in the middle of the drive-bys.

Still, when appropriate, there would be room for crossover events if a story could be developed that logically crosses between the two worlds (i.e. a gang story that pulls Blue Beetle or the new Diablo into conflict with Intergang, perhaps meaning the Justice League). Further, certain characters, like Green Arrow, Nightwing and the Secret Six/Seven, might make excellent boundary-spanners between these different kinds of environments.

Could it work?

[oldschool goatboy]

There was a brief discussion on the Static board about Black Lightning being consigned to limbo by the promotion of Static, who in all fairness has proven a more valuable property, because the two have superficial racial and capability similarities. One of the things about the DCU is that it's collected a vast (sometimes redundant) array of characters and genres as it accreted and acquired properties over the decades. That makes for a lot of diversity. Now, in today's obsessively continuity- and event-driven comics market, there's only room for so many characters in a continuity, if the characters have to live in the same environment. But do they have to?

I'm not suggesting migrating some of the characters off to the different worlds that emerged from the miniseries 52, but what if we treated some of these characters and genres as different from others? Consider:

How many of us have daily lives, dominating concerns, and situations that demand our attention that are very different from those of a solider in the middle east, a store keeper in Chicago, an accountant in New Orleans, a PETA activist in Atlanta, or a factory worker in Seattle? Would it not stand to reason that characters in the DCU might be similarly disconnected from one another?

Would characters like Batman and Green Arrow really go around getting themselves neck-deep in the kind of calamities that draw the attention of Superman or Green Lantern? Even if they did, would that necessarily translate to characters like Manhunter, Black Lightning or Static? Does it really help a property to involve a character like Red Robin in an event that encompasses heavy weights like the Spectre? Could DC make sub-imprints work that segregate groups of characters with similar geographic and/or threat-type concerns, each of which might be aimed at slightly different buyer markets?

In an approach like that, there might be room for a Static title that focuses on more typical superhero stories, and for a Black Lightning feature that focuses more on street level crime. The environments would essentially ignore one another, the same way the daily concerns of an airline pilot are probably a good bit different than those of a naval aviator. Major events would still be possible among these smaller communities. After all, a gang war can be just as devastating as an alien invasion if you're living in the middle of the drive-bys.

Still, when appropriate, there would be room for crossover events if a story could be developed that logically crosses between the two worlds (i.e. a gang story that pulls Blue Beetle or the new Diablo into conflict with Intergang, perhaps meaning the Justice League). Further, certain characters, like Green Arrow, Nightwing and the Secret Six/Seven, might make excellent boundary-spanners between these different kinds of environments.

Could it work?

vertigo, helix, and the dakota universe. not to mention impact and the entire multiverse...hmmm maybe they should look into this.

[shingi70]

Yes there is a way to do it and DC is doing it now.


Justice Leauge
Batman
Superman
Dark
Edge
Teen

[Lorendiac]

Would it not stand to reason that characters in the DCU might be similarly disconnected from one another?

Would characters like Batman and Green Arrow really go around getting themselves neck-deep in the kind of calamities that draw the attention of Superman or Green Lantern? Even if they did, would that necessarily translate to characters like Manhunter, Black Lightning or Static? Does it really help a property to involve a character like Red Robin in an event that encompasses heavy weights like the Spectre? Could DC make sub-imprints work that segregate groups of characters with similar geographic and/or threat-type concerns, each of which might be aimed at slightly different buyer markets?

In an approach like that, there might be room for a Static title that focuses on more typical superhero stories, and for a Black Lightning feature that focuses more on street level crime. The environments would essentially ignore one another, the same way the daily concerns of an airline pilot are probably a good bit different than those of a naval aviator. Major events would still be possible among these smaller communities. After all, a gang war can be just as devastating as an alien invasion if you're living in the middle of the drive-bys.

Still, when appropriate, there would be room for crossover events if a story could be developed that logically crosses between the two worlds (i.e. a gang story that pulls Blue Beetle or the new Diablo into conflict with Intergang, perhaps meaning the Justice League). Further, certain characters, like Green Arrow, Nightwing and the Secret Six/Seven, might make excellent boundary-spanners between these different kinds of environments.

Could it work?

The way I look at it is that it frequently has been done that way in the past!

For instance, I've been saying for years that I don't like it when Very Powerful Heroes guest-star in any of the "core" Batman titles. I feel it detracts from attempts to provide "nitty-gritty realism" in the Bat-books. And back in the 70s and 80s -- and, by and large, in the 90s as well -- it was very rare for that to happen. If Batman had to team up with Superman or Wonder Woman, it would usually happen in some other book entirely. Not in "Batman" or "Detective Comics" or "Shadow of the Bat" (although there were exceptions).

And often the Batman books have been written as if those Very Powerful Heroes didn't even exist. (Nobody says in dialogue: "Superman and Dr. Fate don't exist" -- but characters in Gotham mention them as rarely as possible!)

For instance, when Bane broke Batman's back in "Knightfall," so that Bruce was incapable of patrolling the streets for awhile, did Bruce call in any favors from the high-powered heroes he's worked with over the years? Such as the JLA, the Outsiders, or Dick Grayson's good buddies in the Titans?

No!

He didn't ask any of those people to give him a "magic cure" for his broken back, nor to use super-advanced extraterrestrial technology to help him, nor even ask them to help clean up the streets of Gotham while Bruce was stuck in a wheelchair.

Instead, he arbitrarily selected Jean Paul Valley to be the pinch-hitter as Batman, and then he started traveling around the world (in a wheelchair) in search of his abducted friend, Dr. Shondra Kinsolving.

In a world where Zatanna, Raven, Dr. Fate, and others have the ability to use magic to heal people, Batman's refusal to ask for their help made no sense. But if you just "tacitly assume" that those people don't really exist where the Batman comics of the 1990s are concerned, it makes more sense that in the semi-realistic setting of those books, Bruce assumed he would just have to get better on his own. (Although Shondra Kinsolving ended up giving him a Psychic Miracle Cure anyway, about a year after his back was broken (our time).)

I call it Sealed Bubbles of Continuity. Where certain titles or sets of titles seem to mostly happen in their own little worlds, separate from the continuity of other titles -- except when they don't!

On a similar note, toward the end of his X-Men run, Grant Morrison had Magneto take control of Manhattan and start butchering non-mutants. This was supposed to go on for weeks -- not just an hour or two. Yet there was nothing in Morrison's scripts, nor the scripts of any other books set in and around New York City, that so much as hinted that Spider-Man, Daredevil, the Avengers, and the Fantastic Four even noticed anything really bad was happening in Manhattan! (Even though they live there!)

The way I look at it is that Magneto's (or Xorneto's -- long story) reign of terror was only happening in "Manhattan as it exists in the Sealed Bubble of X-Men continuity." Not in the Sealed Bubbles of Spider-continuity or Daredevil continuity or Avengers continuity or FF continuity!

[Anthony D]

Pre-Crisis, that was part of how things worked via the multiverse; instead of trying to force multiple heroes into the same single universe, even if their backstories/continuities would've conflicted with the Earth-1 heroes (the Shazam crew, the Golden Age heroes, etc.), they simply left them in their own universes (Earth-S, Earth-2, etc.). Post-Crisis, of course, was the insistence of all the heroes being in a single universe (all the better to make crossovers easier, I suppose), though this left some heroes seeming redundant/diminished in stature iMO (Captain Marvel for one).

[Flash Gordon]

Well, I think it's ridiculous that Black Lightening has to be shelved to use Static. Both are interesting enough, and different enough to co-exist. Static is a young kid learning the ropes, in a very different setting. Black Lightening is an experienced hero and teacher, dealing with the responsibility of a family man. No reason why Jefferson can't be in the JL or JLI, while Virgil is off doing his own thing, in his own book.

I wish the DCU wasn't so built on mixing it's heroes together, since it hurts creativity more than it helps. The DC pantheon of characters weren't created for this purpose, their worlds were not set up like the Marvel U. For instance, Captain Marvel is useless with Superman and Wonder Woman around. He would bode much better in his own (all ages) world with his own family of characters. Characters like Swamp Thing and Constantine, work much better on their own as well. They have a rich and dark mythology that is only hindered when tossed into the world of superheroes and the JL.

Hell, even characters like Batman and Superman can feel imprisoned in their roles in the DCU. I much prefer something like All-Star Superman, where Superman exists as the Earth's protector, in his own continuity. There is no reason why the Justice League can't have all the big guns, and yet those same big guns have their own little worlds. Fictional characters don't need to be all placed in the same bread bowl. Superman can lead the Justice League in one book, and also exist as the only superhero in his own book. Same with Batman, and the others. Some guys like Green Lantern and Flash benefit from a more 'shared universe', so let them enjoy it. It's quite easy to have your cake, and also chow down on it.

There is no reason why books like All-Star Superman can't exist next too Johns and Lee's upcoming Justice League. It'd actually help the line and creators involved.

[stk]

There was a brief discussion on the Static board about Black Lightning being consigned to limbo by the promotion of Static, who in all fairness has proven a more valuable property, because the two have superficial racial and capability similarities. Well, realistically they have to do that, because for example, you couldn't simultaneously have comics about two white guys who are super strong and can fl-- oh, wait.