Did DC get the rights to these characters from Charlton?

[MajorHoy]

I know when DC got the rights to Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, and several other characters from Charlton, there were some they didn't get, like E-Man. Does anyone know if they got the rights to / ever used any of these characters?

[Yttrium]

I know when DC got the rights to Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, and several other characters from Charlton, there were some they didn't get, like E-Man. Does anyone know if they got the rights to / ever used any of these characters?

E-Man is owned by by the creator, Joe Staton. So no, DC didn't get the rights to the character.

[MajorHoy]

E-Man is owned by by the creator, Joe Staton. So no, DC didn't get the rights to the character.

I'm aware DC didn't get E-Man, but I was wondering about the other characters, who's pictures I had as attachments:

* Prankster
* Knight (from C.H.E.S.S.)
* Killjoy
* Liberty Belle

(NOTE: Prankster and Liberty Belle are different from the characters of those names that DC already owned.)

[Yttrium]

Killjoy was a character who appeared in a couple backup stories in E-Man. Possibly there are legal complications because of E-Man (although there probably shouldn't be), and possibly the character was just too obscure for DC to bother with. Although he was kinda fun.

I always thought Checkmate was based on C.H.E.S.S. Maybe not officially, but the two groups are a bit too similar to have as separate groups, I think.

As for the other two, DC isn't likely to bother with a couple obscure characters who have the same names as DC characters.

[MajorHoy]

A few other ones that I'm curious if DC got the rights to use or not:

* Static
* Vengeance Squad
* Yang

[Yttrium]

A few other ones that I'm curious if DC got the rights to use or not:

* Static
* Vengeance Squad
* Yang

Wow, I have never heard of those three.

(And I have a strange feeling that I'm not alone in that...)

[Jeff Brady]

A few other ones that I'm curious if DC got the rights to use or not:

* Static
* Vengeance Squad
* Yang

Static is owned by Steve Ditko.

http://www.comicvine.com/charlton/57-125/

[Toy Collector]

No, DC got none of these. Only the ones that were seen in Crisis on Infinite Earths, and Peter Cannon Thunderbolt went back to it's creator very shortly after.

[positronic1]

My understanding is that Paul Levitz orchestrated the purchase of characters from Charlton as a "gift" to then-EIC Dick Giordano. Giordano was a former Charlton editor who launched the "Action Heroes" lineup for Charlton in the mid-1960s. These characters (except for Captain Atom, who had been created earlier) were all created under the editorial direction of Giordano. When Giordano left Charlton to become an editor at DC, he took a lot of Charlton's talent pool along with him; primarily Denny O'Neil, Steve Ditko, and Jim Aparo.

Thus, it's only the characters from Charlton's "Action Heroes" line that are owned by DC. Not the western, war, mystery or later-era (E-Man and all associated backup strips) superhero characters. Prankster MAY be part of that group (not sure if he appeared in a Giordano-edited Charlton title), but since his strip existed in some future timeline never seen before on since that one backup strip, it probably doesn't matter.

Here are the known former Charlton characters owned by DC (plus all associated villains):

Blue Beetle (Steve Ditko version, based on a character Charlton purchased from the defunct Fox Features)
Captain Atom
Judomaster
Nightshade
Peacemaker
Question
Sarge Steel

And at one point DC thought they owned Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt -- but it turned out that the character is owned by his creator Pete Morisi.

[Ed Love]

Peter Cannon is confusing because in the past year he did cameo in several different books a month or two apart which would be in direct conflict with the assumption that DC does not own the character.

The first several appearances of Captain Atom are actually public domain, published before automatic renewals and Charlton never registered nor renewed their copyright.

I always thought the Yang books were pretty good, for being a blatant Kung Fu rip.

[Jaded Devil]

DC got the rights to the Son of Vulcan, too...the Charlton character appeared in the War of the Gods mini series and then they've used a new, teenaged take on the Son of Vulcan a couple times in the past ten years, including his own mini (which was pretty fun).

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7368/172376-165269-son-of-vulcan_large.JPGhttp://www.titanstower.com/assets/whos%20who/aamembers/individualimages/vulcan.jpg

[positronic1]

DC got the rights to the Son of Vulcan, too...the Charlton character appeared in the War of the Gods mini series and then they've used a new, teenaged take on the Son of Vulcan a couple times in

Might have known I'd forget someone. Thank you, you are correct sir.

[Sean Walsh]

E-Man is owned by by the creator, Joe Staton. So no, DC didn't get the rights to the character.

Given Joe Staton's relationship with DC at that time (he was the GL artist for years), I'm surprised they never worked out a deal.....

[MajorHoy]

My understanding is that Paul Levitz orchestrated the purchase of characters from Charlton as a "gift" to then-EIC Dick Giordano. Giordano was a former Charlton editor who launched the "Action Heroes" lineup for Charlton in the mid-1960s. These characters (except for Captain Atom, who had been created earlier) were all created under the editorial direction of Giordano. When Giordano left Charlton to become an editor at DC, he took a lot of Charlton's talent pool along with him; primarily Denny O'Neil, Steve Ditko, and Jim Aparo.

Thus, it's only the characters from Charlton's "Action Heroes" line that are owned by DC. Not the western, war, mystery or later-era (E-Man and all associated backup strips) superhero characters. Prankster MAY be part of that group (not sure if he appeared in a Giordano-edited Charlton title), but since his strip existed in some future timeline never seen before on since that one backup strip, it probably doesn't matter.

Here are the known former Charlton characters owned by DC (plus all associated villains):

Blue Beetle (Steve Ditko version, based on a character Charlton purchased from the defunct Fox Features)
Captain Atom
Judomaster
Nightshade
Peacemaker
Question
Sarge Steel

And at one point DC thought they owned Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt -- but it turned out that the character is owned by his creator Pete Morisi.

So, are all those DC issues of Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt, as well as his appearances in various Justice League books (he showed up in Task Force and a few times in Quarterly), no longer part of continuity?

And since the Dan Garrett version of Blue Beetle has shown up a few times, does DC also own rights to him, or is he just a public domain character that DC uses from time to time?

[positronic1]

And since the Dan Garrett version of Blue Beetle has shown up a few times, does DC also own rights to him, or is he just a public domain character that DC uses from time to time?

We should clarify that there are actually TWO different versions of the Dan Garrett Blue Beetle. DC owns the version published by Charlton in the early 1960s, and written by Roy Thomas (prior to the Ditko BB) -- an archaeologist who discovers a magic scarab that gives him superpowers. The earlier Dan Garrett, published by Fox Features in the 1940s, was a rookie policeman who wore bulletproof chainmail armor and got superstrength from Vitamin 2X, a formula invented by his friend, pharmacist Dr. Franz.

The Fox version of the Blue Beetle has appeared in comics published by AC Comics (Bill Black of FemForce fame), and is also the basis for the Scarab character appearing in Dynamite Entertainment's Project Superpowers series (although Dynamite's version is NOT Dan Garrett, presumably to avoid stepping on DC's toes).

[Ghostbuster]

DC got the rights to the Son of Vulcan, too...the Charlton character appeared in the War of the Gods mini series and then they've used a new, teenaged take on the Son of Vulcan a couple times in the past ten years, including his own mini (which was pretty fun).

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7368/172376-165269-son-of-vulcan_large.JPGhttp://www.titanstower.com/assets/whos%20who/aamembers/individualimages/vulcan.jpg

the pic on the left looks like hes wearing Mickey Mouse ears

[Joebleau]

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/charlton.htm

almost all the characters you are asking for are creator own ( see the bottom of the page )

[Ed Love]

The Fox version of the Blue Beetle has appeared in comics published by AC Comics (Bill Black of FemForce fame), and is also the basis for the Scarab character appearing in Dynamite Entertainment's Project Superpowers series (although Dynamite's version is NOT Dan Garrett, presumably to avoid stepping on DC's toes).

The Scarab is not based on the Blue Beetle, at least not by name. The Scarab is built around a golden-age character actually called the Scarab published by Nedor (the company that also did the Black Terror, Doc Strange, Fighting Yank). Dynamite's storyline for the Scarab does have some parallels to the Charlton (not Fox) and thus DC's Blue Beetle storyline and history though. The original was an archaeologist/Egyptologist who is granted mystical Superman-like powers. Dynamite had something happen to him and the new guy decides to take over the role only uses science and technology to be the new Scarab (ala Ted Kord). The armored costume he wears is similar enough to the one Ross also designed for Kord in KINGDOM COME that people originally thought in previews and solicitations that the Scarab was to be the Blue Beetle. Which is grounds for a Trademark suit since that's exactly what trademarks are meant to protect against.

However, Dynamite has in their back-up sketches revealed that the Blue Beetle does exist in the Superpowers universe, only called Big Blue. I guess in an effort to not step on DC's toes, they decide to step on IBM's.

[positronic1]

The Scarab is not based on the Blue Beetle, at least not by name. The Scarab is built around a golden-age character actually called the Scarab published by Nedor (the company that also did the Black Terror, Doc Strange, Fighting Yank). Dynamite's storyline for the Scarab does have some parallels to the Charlton (not Fox) and thus DC's Blue Beetle storyline and history though. The original was an archaeologist/Egyptologist who is granted mystical Superman-like powers. Dynamite had something happen to him and the new guy decides to take over the role only uses science and technology to be the new Scarab (ala Ted Kord). The armored costume he wears is similar enough to the one Ross also designed for Kord in KINGDOM COME that people originally thought in previews and solicitations that the Scarab was to be the Blue Beetle. Which is grounds for a Trademark suit since that's exactly what trademarks are meant to protect against.

However, Dynamite has in their back-up sketches revealed that the Blue Beetle does exist in the Superpowers universe, only called Big Blue. I guess in an effort to not step on DC's toes, they decide to step on IBM's.

Let's say rather that the Scarab is based on a fusion of elements including the Golden Age Fox BB, the Golden Age Nedor Scarab, the Charlton Dan Garrett BB, and Alex Ross' Kingdom Come version of BB. That should pretty much cover it. I'm sure as the PSP universe progresses, they'll probably be establishing some connection between Big Blue and the Scarab. Assuming the series gets that far.

[Ed Love]

Let's say rather that the Scarab is based on a fusion of elements including the Golden Age Fox BB, the Golden Age Nedor Scarab, the Charlton Dan Garrett BB, and Alex Ross' Kingdom Come version of BB. That should pretty much cover it. I'm sure as the PSP universe progresses, they'll probably be establishing some connection between Big Blue and the Scarab. Assuming the series gets that far.

Except that the Scarab has nothing to do with the GA Blue Beetle. The Charlton Dan Garrett Blue Beetle is thematically similar to the GA Scarab and Dynamite's Scarab is the tail wagging the dog by then recreating Charlton's Blue Beetle history iand story beats in their new hero. But the GA Blue Beetle doesn't figure into it.

Not the first time this has been done either. There was a minor character in the 40s called the Black Owl, briefly done by Simon & Kirby among others. The Black Owl decides to go into the service and passes his identity to a friend of his who happens to be the father of the kid heroes Yank & Doodle. The second Black Owl happens to be an inventor and creates a flying owl ship which bears a striking resemblance to a certain flying Bug ship. Flash forward to WATCHMEN and Alan Moore recreates the history and legacy of the Blue Beetles in characters Nite Owl, thus also reflecting a GA link/coincidence.

[positronic1]

Except that the Scarab has nothing to do with the GA Blue Beetle. The Charlton Dan Garrett Blue Beetle is thematically similar to the GA Scarab and Dynamite's Scarab is the tail wagging the dog by then recreating Charlton's Blue Beetle history iand story beats in their new hero. But the GA Blue Beetle doesn't figure into it.

Well, not so far. If Alex Ross put Big Blue in there, knowing the way his mind works, he's probably got some connection in mind. Give them time.

I think the only one you forgot to mention was Infinity Inc. member Hector Hall (son of Carter and Shiera), whose original superhero identity (before he assumed the Sandman identity from Dr. Garrett Sanford and then was killed) was the Silver Scarab (Roy Thomas' homage to his own version of the Blue Beetle done in the early 60s at Charlton). So Ross wasn't the first to turn a Beetle into a Scarab (and in fact, Thomas had done an even earlier homage to his BB in Marvel's Invaders, this time as a villain, the Scarlet Scarab).

[positronic1]

Not the first time this has been done either. There was a minor character in the 40s called the Black Owl, briefly done by Simon & Kirby among others. The Black Owl decides to go into the service and passes his identity to a friend of his who happens to be the father of the kid heroes Yank & Doodle. The second Black Owl happens to be an inventor and creates a flying owl ship which bears a striking resemblance to a certain flying Bug ship. Flash forward to WATCHMEN and Alan Moore recreates the history and legacy of the Blue Beetles in characters Nite Owl, thus also reflecting a GA link/coincidence.

There's been a lot said about the original Watchmen premise being based on the Charlton heroes, but once the decision was made to go with original characters, it sort of freed Moore up to incorporate other influences. So Dr. Manhattan, originally an analogue for Captain Atom, actually more closely resembles Gold Key's Dr. Solar (Solar: physicist in a nuclear accident whose skin turns green and gains atomic powers; Manhattan: physicist in a nuclear accident whose skin turns blue and gains atomic powers). Silk Specter is probably closer to Fox's Phantom Lady than she is to Charlton's Nightshade, etc.

And then DC, a few years prior to killing off Ted Kord, made him overweight and out-of-shape, with a corresponding lack of confidence (maybe he should have had a fling with Black Canary to pull himself out of it?)... and so the circle keeps on turning.