CBR: Tilting at Windmills - Jun 9, 2011

[CBR News]

Is 52 the magic number? Brian Hibbs is back with an in-depth look at DC Comics' September relaunch and how it all fits in to the modern-day realities of the Direct Market.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32716).

[Skyrider]

Very well written, and it touches upon a number of concerns I've had for this relaunch (as well as mentioning a number I never considered.)

I simply don't see how this risk can possibly pay off to the extent it needs to in the current market, especially considering fan reaction to the changes.

[matthew_lane]

Very well written, and it touches upon a number of concerns I've had for this relaunch (as well as mentioning a number I never considered.)

I simply don't see how this risk can possibly pay off to the extent it needs to in the current market, especially considering fan reaction to the changes.

yep, fact is that for every positive comment from someone saying "wow, i want to read this book" there are ten people like me who have looked at this new solict list & said "Well its been fun DC, call me when you've stopped being crazy & bring back the real DC Universe."

Seriously, i've gone from being an 8 title a month DC guy, to a ZERO title a month guy & i'm going to guess that there are going to be a lot of people who will be joining me.

Thats a pretty big "known unknowable" to overcome. As far as lapsed readship goes, i doubt many people will be compelled to pick up these titles... Unless of course there is a huge contingent of vertigo fans & people who just couldn't get enough of the grimdark early 1990's out there that i'm unaware of.

I can't believe i am actually actively wishing that DC completely fails.

[the Dagman]

I am worried about the shops that decide to take a gamble and order big. If this whole thing flops, what happens to them? And the direct market as a whole without them? It could be a bloodbath. They are going to release an average of 13 #1s a week in September. Thirteen. It should be more like two a week as the relaunch ramps up. Channel those who are interested into just a couple of books each week, that makes better marketing sense to me. If DC wants this to succeed.

Perhaps they should take even more advantage of their digital experiment and allow the LCS to sell their customers a digital code that allows them to download the book the day it is released for like $2.25 or something. That is 26¢ more per copy than they will get for it when they sell it online at the 30-day-later rate. And let the stores have that. DC makes their money, the stores get a cut without having to really invest, and their customers get a deal over the $2.99 cover price of the print issue. That way they would have a reason to still come to the store to get their comics the day or week they are released, even the digital ones. And that way you never are really sold out of a book either.

[the Dagman]

Double post from a single click on the post button. Go figure.

[Janissa]

Hibbs is correct. So why doesn't anyone at the top of DC Comics know this?? I'm looking at you Diane Nelson!

[JohnnyLiar]

personally, my pull from DC has gone up, and i've been seeing a lot of people say the same thing. It seems to me that for every person saying "I'm done with DC" There is someone who's pull is increasing.

[Skyrider]

I am worried about the shops that decide to take a gamble and order big. If this whole thing flops, what happens to them? And the direct market as a whole without them? It could be a bloodbath. They are going to release an average of 13 #1s a week in September. Thirteen. It should be more like two a week as the relaunch ramps up. Channel those who are interested into just a couple of books each week, that makes better marketing sense to me. If DC wants this to succeed.

Perhaps they should take even more advantage of their digital experiment and allow the LCS to sell their customers a digital code that allows them to download the book the day it is released for like $2.25 or something. That is 26¢ more per copy than they will get for it when they sell it online at the 30-day-later rate. And let the stores have that. DC makes their money, the stores get a cut without having to really invest, and their customers get a deal over the $2.99 cover price of the print issue. That way they would have a reason to still come to the store to get their comics the day or week they are released, even the digital ones. And that way you never are really sold out of a book either.

Well the comics will be returnable at least in the first month, so that alone will (hopefully) stop this initiative from singlehandedly putting the LCSs out of business, but even if they undersell that could be just as big a problem.

I mean, most successful comic shops these days are no longer just comics shops. Many have incorporated tabletop games like Magic the Gathering and Warhammer, as well as classic tabletop RPGs and board games.

I'm not sure comics, on their own, are a sustainable business anymore and as such I worry that the LCS is inevitably doomed anyway.

I mean, digital releasing of some kind is inevitably the future of the medium, but where does that leave the shops? And if you're trying to get new readers, how do the comic companies expect to do it if they aren't advertising outside of the comics shops to begin with.

I haven't seen this DC initiative really marketed aside from a USA Today article and one other article that people around the world are going to largely ignore.

Again this feels like a huge risk for the industry without a clear vision of how to make sure it's successful. Most of these new titles seem to be dead men walking.

[SmoManCometh]

personally, my pull from DC has gone up, and i've been seeing a lot of people say the same thing. It seems to me that for every person saying "I'm done with DC" There is someone who's pull is increasing.

Yes. This clearly the case in the vast majority. For every snarky post there is at least three positive.

[David Elliott]

I'll probably go from just Power Girl and Xombie to trying at least 20 of the first issues.

I hope everyone in the industry pay particular attention to what Brian has stated in the column about supply and demand. That needs to be addressed by everyone.

[hondobrode]

Every title is returnable and the discount rates were raised about 6 % or so IIRC.

No one will get stung with xtra copies.

My pull goes from 6 to 35 titles. Huge win for DC. My son who's only read some of my stuff, is jumping in too.

[mbsprime]

DC just sold me an iPad with the day-and-date digital release. A fresh relaunch such as this is what I've been waiting for so I can start the slate clean. I'm getting about 20 titles every month on release, and am open to picking up a handful once they drop to 1.99. Win-win for me. Though I'll have to break this to my LCS eventually.

[Krona]

h biggest problem I see with the relaunch is how can a LCS gain new long term customers under DC's new launch and digital initiative?

Mr Hibbs has already stated that is is going to be very hard to get the proper stock levels for this relaunch without being drowned in unsold product. I feel DC's policy of dropping the price to 1.99 four weeks after release is going to make it mission impossible.

Now it seems like a shop should only order what it can sell in the three weeks there is price parity. The holding costs far outweigh the opportunity costs in DC's new world.

It seems to me that DC is using the DM's guaranteed capital to subsidize their move to digital distribution and in the process lay full blame on any DM store closing on the store, not their (DC's) actions.

[CagedLeo730]

From what I've read, they are allowing returnabililty (w/ 10% cover cost) for the first 3 months to help the retailers adjust. As for the digital stuff, I remember them mentioning letting retailers sell digital codes redeemable at the DC comixology store. I don't know if that will be in full effect by September. Digital will be a good backstop in case retailers underorder. As for marketing, it's been rumored that they'll start a nationwide marketing drive with Warner Brothers' help.

[Gambit266]

yep, fact is that for every positive comment from someone saying "wow, i want to read this book" there are ten people like me who have looked at this new solict list & said "Well its been fun DC, call me when you've stopped being crazy & bring back the real DC Universe."

Seriously, i've gone from being an 8 title a month DC guy, to a ZERO title a month guy & i'm going to guess that there are going to be a lot of people who will be joining me.

Thats a pretty big "known unknowable" to overcome. As far as lapsed readship goes, i doubt many people will be compelled to pick up these titles... Unless of course there is a huge contingent of vertigo fans & people who just couldn't get enough of the grimdark early 1990's out there that i'm unaware of.

I can't believe i am actually actively wishing that DC completely fails.

The message boards are fuming, although this one seems to be trending positively for DC according the the few post it has. On the other hand for the first time in the recent memory, including the Death of Captain America and Obama Spidey, I've had friends who to my knowledge were not comic book fans ask me where to get some of the new DC stuff. A couple were the usual #1 collector mentality, but there were more than a few who seemed genuinely interested in starting up a couple of series.

Now the question comes down to what Brian said will DC advertise enough to hold interest and convert that into sales and second if people want a physical copy will the DM have enough on hand.

[skullduggery]

One of my major issues with the relaunch is the fact they are doing it all in a single month. Fifty two brand new number 1 issues hitting shops in the same month.
It is unlikely a given reader would want to sample all 52 (just because there are going to be some characters/titles they just have zero interest in, regardless of the fact that it may be a significant change to what came before), but if someone actually did want to do that, you're talking a out over $150 out of their pocket (before they buy titles from other publishers they might like). That just isn't reasonable.
I think DC would have been better served spreading the launch across three months. That would give readers the opportunity to only need to check out 17 or 18 new titles in a new month which is much more reasonable for their pocketbook. And since you don't expect they would like all 17 or 18, they would only pick up a handful of those same titles next month, which means they can still sample the new 17 or 18 coming out in month 2.
I expect this would make it easier on retailers as well.
By dumping all 52 titles in the same month, DC is setting up a lot of those titles for failure because far fewer people are going to be sampling titles outside of the normal group they already buy. And if people a not able to take the chance to sample different titles, what is the point?
This is just really poor planning on DC's part. I can only think that their expectation is that outside readers will be sample these titles via the digital route, but if that really is their expectation, they are really fooling themselves. That isn't going to happen at the $2.99 price point.

[Kid Kyoto]

Great column as always, and I agree, 52 titles is much too much. Too much for readers to swallow, too much for creators to do their best, too much for the general audience to care about. A limited 'ultimate' style relauch would have gone down a lot better.

On returns, I thought books were not actually returned, retailers just clip off the cover and destroy the book.

Has that changed?

[KevinTBrown]

From what I've read, they are allowing returnabililty (w/ 10% cover cost) for the first 3 months to help the retailers adjust. As for the digital stuff, I remember them mentioning letting retailers sell digital codes redeemable at the DC comixology store. I don't know if that will be in full effect by September. Digital will be a good backstop in case retailers underorder. As for marketing, it's been rumored that they'll start a nationwide marketing drive with Warner Brothers' help.

There was an article at another site that mentioned that DC is going to be doing a nationwide advertising campaign on TV. IF done properly, it will hopefully bring in a lot of new, and potentially sustainable, customers to the LCS.

[TheZug]

This is a great article, and it seems evident that this relaunch poses problems for the direct market, but I ask you this:

Does DC care?

They've got comics on the shelves in Barnes & Noble now. These books will be available online. There's going to be a national ad campaign. I expect you'll be seeing more venues for these books that we haven't heard about yet.

So if the direct market can't stock all these books, how much will it matter--to DC--if they're selling like hotcakes on the iPad, B&N, and elsewhere?

I don't have the answer to that, but I'd be interested in hearing one.

I know this probably leaves the direct market feeling like they're being left out in the cold, but I think most everyone agrees that the answer wasn't in maintaining the current system. I imagine some stores will be able to capitalize on the ad campaign and the new awareness, but others, sadly, will probably go the way of all the indie bookstores many of us knew and loved.

[Ramage]

Wish DC would have taken the far more risky gamble of a complete relaunch over a year. First six months publish three books (Superman, batman, Wonder Woman) and then slowly relaunch new books with a big JLA crossover by the end of the year.

Seems like they want to do everything big at once for fear of ceding market share. (Is it even a relaunch, Batman seemingly has every ward he has ever had and the Batman Inc will keep same storyline going? Huh? How does that work?)

They had a bold idea and seem to have hedged on it. 52 titles at once seems to be more of a business decision than a creative decision.

--Comics shops should press customers more for commitments. Sign up lists. Maybe even some sort of deposit. I don''t know how that plays, but I'm am going to organize a pull list for my LCBS for the first time in ten years.

--Hope DC doesn't skimp on advertising.

[goof]

Will any of the 52 number 1's have variant covers?

[Drink]

I got to ask all the people who are saying "My pull list just went up to thirty titles!" or "I'm gonna give all of these a shot!"

Are you bankers on Wall Street? Do you have that much disposable income? Last time I checked the entire world was in a recession. I might have 15-20 books on my overall pull list, and sometimes I think that's way too much.

It seems that not only are retailers at potential risk of this DC relaunch, but homeowners as well.

[johnnyrocket]

Ya know, if I were a publisher, I'd LISTEN to this guy....

[Marveluted]

DC just sold me an iPad with the day-and-date digital release. A fresh relaunch such as this is what I've been waiting for so I can start the slate clean. I'm getting about 20 titles every month on release, and am open to picking up a handful once they drop to 1.99. Win-win for me. Though I'll have to break this to my LCS eventually.

This. Day-and-date is much more reasonable to do now from DC's perspective because of the risk to retailers of launching this many #1s. If some LCS's go out of business due to poor ordering prediction, digital allows DC to at least retain some customers that might have a harder time accessing the latest material without a brick-and-mortar store around.

From DC's perspective, if this inadvertently causes LCS's to fold then the digital day-and-date might aid retention and even encourage the market to shift to digital. The advantages for them would be to cut out distribution, retail and printing costs -marketing directly to consumers and cutting out the middle man.

In an era where almost all print media are in decline, DC hedges its bets this way for increased sustainability -- albeit potentially at the cost of the LCS. Just my 2 cents.

[Brian Hibbs]

Every title is returnable and the discount rates were raised about 6 % or so IIRC.

Your R is not C.

As announced so far, there are three tiers of incentives.

Tier #1 is for 41 of the 52 books, and is returnability with a 10% (retail) restocking fee, which makes it effectively 20% of wholesale. That's makes the math on those, on the likely quantities we're talking about (as these are presumably the b- and c-list titles), extremely unattractive.

The other 11 books (which we're presuming will be the "sure things" like Batman #1, Superman #1, JL #1, and so on) will EITHER have a very deep discount OR have variant covers (wha--?!) as their only current incentive. No returnability.

The line as a whole is not getting an increased discount.

-B

[the Dagman]

Every title is returnable and the discount rates were raised about 6 % or so IIRC.

No one will get stung with xtra copies.

My pull goes from 6 to 35 titles. Huge win for DC. My son who's only read some of my stuff, is jumping in too.

In his article Brian shows us that "returnable" is not a 100% refund for him. He and other shops will still get stung for 10% of the cover price for each book, 30¢ a pop. Plus postage to and from. Factor that into that he likely might profit $1 per book sold before overhead costs, that is still a big drain on the profitability of the overall product.

In the past, DC has shown a lot of consideration to the retailers. Paul Levitz was a big supporter of the ComicsPRO group during his tenure as publisher for instance. But he is gone now from that position and I am not aware of the current state of the relationship DC has with it's retailers. But these guys are the backbone of their entire publishing line. And have been for the last thirty years. I would think it would behoove them to make sure they get included in this jump to digital. Otherwise, the two business models would be counter-productive.

Which is why I think allowing the stores to sell download codes the day of release for $2.25 each makes sense. That works out to just under a 25% discount for patronizing the LCS. It gives loyal LCS patrons a reason to continue going to the LCS while also going digital. Inventory becomes a non-issue. As when they sell out of a print version, new customers can still buy that much hyped book for a discount and not leave the stores mad they weren't able to get the book they wanted.

Like say when Captain America #25 came out, the stores had no warning of the hype and sold out early. Potential new readers that heard about it in USAToday or on Good Morning America that day went to the store to buy a copy just to find the shelf empty. If there were a digital option for them they would not have left the store fuming mad. Or even worse, indifferent. Those were potential new readers of comics that were lost because they did not have enough product in the stores. And that momentary interest in buying comics likely faded away. Taking up my discounting the digital copy idea means they don't lose that customer. A copy would always be available, even for books that have sold out. No more having to tell them that it is going back to press and they should have more in a week or so. No more increased production costs of going back to press for second printings. And the stores don't have to slit their own throats to promote the jump to digital. Because a 25% discount would still give their customer base a reason to continue going to the LCS. Sure, they could wait a month and save another 26¢ by buying digital directly. But that is literally pocket change for the people who want the book "now". Who are likely to be the current readers who go to the LCS weekly now.

It is great that you and your son are going to try a lot of the new relaunch. Kudos. But you are not everyone. And DC and the retailers should be concerned about everyone. A lot of the current readers resistant to this change are using this as a jump off point. You're helping to offset those people. But there aren't enough current readers that are able to pick up that much slack in the market without a lot of new readers joining you. Like you, I am hoping for the best and that DC succeeds with this gamble. But prudence dictates that even die hard optimists would do well to plan for the worst. And using this idea allows the LCS to do that, while also allowing them and DC as well to maximize the potential for success. I think it is in everyone's best interests.

[Brian Hibbs]

Does DC care?

They've got comics on the shelves in Barnes & Noble now. These books will be available online. There's going to be a national ad campaign. I expect you'll be seeing more venues for these books that we haven't heard about yet.

So if the direct market can't stock all these books, how much will it matter--to DC--if they're selling like hotcakes on the iPad, B&N, and elsewhere?

Oh, OF COURSE THEY CARE -- the Direct Market is a known and stable market that produces a regular and predicitible amount of money. DM stores sell more DC comics per square foot that and B&N could ever hope to, and the installed base of the iPad is too small to even begin to pay for the creative costs of comics production even if there was some sort of insane penetration and retention rate.

If the DM "shut down" tomorrow, DC would be unlikely to be able to claim more than, mm, a third? of the current readership moving to digital, or the newstand. And I think that's being radically optimistic. Comics production could not survive a 2/3 drop in revenue from comics sales.

-B

[ScotsScribbler]

Releasing 52 number ones in one go is stupid.

DC should be doing this over 3 months, with 18 issues a month [still $50] or even 1 year, with each issue becoming the new feature of the week.

Great idea, horrible execution.

If I were the head of Marvel or DC, I would have Hibbs on speeddial.

I could do a better job of running DC. Cut titles, increase promotion and distribution.

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

Maybe they need to speak to the guy who does the distribution for Archie/ Betty and Veronica, that shit is everywhere.

[ScotsScribbler]

I have a conspiracy theory that Marvel and DC are happy to see LCSs go out of business.

I went on the Vertigo website to order stuff direct and was surprised to find that they and other comic book studios don't have their own online stores.

I don't know any other business that you can't order from direct.

LCSs are blocking the Big Two from being able to sell subscriptions, having fans mail order direct and it occurs to me that they might want to cut out the middle man and increase their revenue stream that way.

Or start their own comic chain, in the same way as Disney did with the Disney stores line.

[briest57]

rLike say when Captain America #25 came out, the stores had no warning of the hype and sold out early. Potential new readers that heard about it in USAToday or on Good Morning America that day went to the store to buy a copy just to find the shelf empty. everyone's best interests.

This happened to me on FF4. I went on the Saturday to find every store(about 6 in my area had sold out) boy was I pi***d being a regular reader.

One of my concern is that the titles that are attractive to me are likely to be the lower selling ones and so will probably be sold out. I expect the A-list titles might also sell out.

And I have no intention of ordering something new without seeing it first.

[Jim Turoczy]

My concerns lie with the 52 titles numbered 5 and 6 that will be shipping in January & February, which are usually slow months for comic stores.

[SJNeal]

Hopefully someone has forwarded this article to DC...

[Ultraist]

Releasing 52 number ones in one go is stupid.

DC should be doing this over 3 months, with 18 issues a month [still $50] or even 1 year, with each issue becoming the new feature of the week.

Great idea, horrible execution.

If I were the head of Marvel or DC, I would have Hibbs on speeddial.

I could do a better job of running DC. Cut titles, increase promotion and distribution.

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

Maybe they need to speak to the guy who does the distribution for Archie/ Betty and Veronica, that shit is everywhere.


If Pokemon and Magic and Hockey cards are able to infiltrate department stores and toy stores, I don't see why comics can't find a way back into stores. I thought the Star Wars comics with the two-pack Star Wars toys was a great idea... but the trading cards seem to have it figured out the best.

Once kids get hooked on the story (assuming it's a good story) they'll go looking for the rest of it and can end up in their local comic shop.

At least, that's the way I did it way back when...

[TheDreamingCelestial]

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

uhm.. no..

[JohnnyLiar]

uhm.. no..

good one.
douche.

[ScotsScribbler]

uhh yes, if we're serious about getting kids into comics.

I am not a fan of superhero comics at all, but they're how I got started, and with the movies, they are the biggest tie in to comics possible.

I also just found out that this reset includes Action and Detective Comics.

These two titles should NOT have been reset AT ALL.

They were coming up to #1000, an unprecendented achievement in superhero comics and they are now going back to square 1?

Idiots. Whatever.

[Trey]

Will any of the 52 number 1's have variant covers?

Yes, Deadpool variant covers.

52 number 1's are a lot.

When can you return them though? If I'm a retailer, I'd like to keep issue 1 along with 2,3, or 4, in case someone decides to try a series after word of mouth/reviews builds.

If i'm looking at a rack, I WILL impulse buy a series I did not get from the beginning. Case in point, Cornell's Luthor story in Action Comics.

[QCCBob]

Double post.

[QCCBob]

So, reaction by comic fans is extremely mixed, but the ones who are quitting are being replaced by ones who aren't necessarily commited. In other words, the guy who bought DC books for the last 15, 20, 25 years are leaving to be replaced by people who will pick up an issue or two IF they like it, maybe... The old business axiom, 'It's easier to keep a customer than get a new one' really comes into play here. I've had two 15+ year customers drop DC already. If it worked, why hasn't it helped Marvel's numbers? Outside ads will be a welcome thing, but who are they going to target? These books are aimed at the same group of buyers, shining up the old pig's ear doesn't change it from being a pig's ear. If all that's been holding the millions and millions of potential buyers back is Superman wearing his underwear on the outside, great! But, methinks the problems are a bit deeper than that.

[matthew_lane]

So, reaction by comic fans is extremely mixed, but the ones who are quitting are being replaced by ones who aren't necessarily commited. In other words, the guy who bought DC books for the last 15, 20, 25 years are leaving to be replaced by people who will pick up an issue or two IF they like it, maybe... The old business axiom, 'It's easier to keep a customer than get a new one' really comes into play here. I've had two 15+ year customers drop DC already.

Yep. I really don't see this bringing back any lapsed readers at all. But i do see a fair amount of us long time readers looking at this new DCU & saying, no thank you.


If it worked, why hasn't it helped Marvel's numbers? Outside ads will be a welcome thing, but who are they going to target? These books are aimed at the same group of buyers, shining up the old pig's ear doesn't change it from being a pig's ear. If all that's been holding the millions and millions of potential buyers back is Superman wearing his underwear on the outside, great! But, methinks the problems are a bit deeper than that.

Yeah, i'm think the problem is one that would have been very easy to fix. It goes like this: "We at DC promise that every single book is going to have a consistent writing crew & a consistent editorial overview, so books like Teen Titans wont be producing filler stories for the better part of a year and a half."

See how easy that was DC, thats all you needed, you didn't need to do all this rebooting.

[TheDreamingCelestial]

good one.
douche.

oh, I'm the douche now.. nice..


uhh yes, if we're serious about getting kids into comics.

I am not a fan of superhero comics at all, but they're how I got started, and with the movies, they are the biggest tie in to comics possible.


Dude, I have no problem with superhero comics whatsoever; they are fun as hell.. I was opposing your normative statement that every child should be growing up with Detective and Action comics (in "western countries", however you define that..). Why should they be in every child's hands instead of Ben10, Naruto, Dora, Avatar Aang, SpongeBob, Nemo or whatever else is the hot thing right now? (Not that I have a round about knowledge about the pedagogic qualities of every one of said franchises).

At its core the two characters that are featured in the titles that you propose are defined by extreme determination (obsession) together with a fantasy element of excessive richness, having nearly limitless resources at his desposal just to alienate any sense of identification for one; and being unbelievably powerful and being able to do whatever he wants, but choosing not to do the wrong things because of the great 'family values' he acquired for the other. I don't know why these two narratives are required to be a part of every child's upbringing.

Now if you were suggesting the same thing about, maybe Spider-Man, which is defined by the notion of responsibilty or the consequences of our actions/inactions; or the X-Men, who do the right thing even while facing prejudices and hatred, promoting tolerance; or like Teen Titans, which is about a group of young adults helping each other through their difficulties and forming a close, family like bond.. etc, etc,.. there might have been some good in making those stories a part of as many children as possible. Even than, I would have said it depends on particular stories, or directions, or the content of the issues and such.

So, I know that this has perhaps been a rant diverging from the main discussion in the thread, but I do believe it is a better thing to share than calling a group of people 'idiots', over ones disagrement on a numbering scheme.

[PeterJC]

Oh, OF COURSE THEY CARE -- the Direct Market is a known and stable market that produces a regular and predicitible amount of money. DM stores sell more DC comics per square foot that and B&N could ever hope to, and the installed base of the iPad is too small to even begin to pay for the creative costs of comics production even if there was some sort of insane penetration and retention rate.

If the DM "shut down" tomorrow, DC would be unlikely to be able to claim more than, mm, a third? of the current readership moving to digital, or the newstand. And I think that's being radically optimistic. Comics production could not survive a 2/3 drop in revenue from comics sales.

-B

I don't know... DC Comics, the publishing bit of DC, is small potatoes, revenue-wise. Time Warner doesn't own DC because it makes money off of comic books, it owns DC because it makes money off of its intellectual property. The entire comic book publishing industry is only worth a few hundred million dollars a year; DC/Time Warner will probably book more revenue on the Green Lantern movie (not to mention merchandise) than the entire industry will book on selling comics this year.

There's certainly a value in continuing to publish comics, as it keeps the IP fresh and introduces new ideas that can be milked for actual profits in other media. But DC Comics could easily be a loss leader, and it really wouldn't impact DC that much.

I also think that DC, as an entity, doesn't care a whit about the 'direct market.' The real potential market for selling comics is, as Brian points out, much larger than the actual base of people buying comics now. And you don't have to reach back into comics history when titles used to sell hundreds of thousands of copies (on the newsstand!) to see the evidence. Just look at how many more comics they sell in France or Japan. Heck, just look at how many people go to see Green Lantern this summer. Easily 99% of the people going to see that movie will never have read a Green Lantern comic, and many, many of them will not even know that Green Lantern comics are still being published.

That 99% of the Green Lantern movie audience is *all* potential new comic book customers. IF DC were smart, they'd actually mention Green Lantern comics in the movie trailers. If they were *really* smart, they'd end every trailer with, "Download Green Lantern comics at dccomics.com and the DC app for ios!" Because 99% of that 99% will never, ever set foot in a comic book shop. Not even in one of the nice ones. But a huge proportion of that 99% already buy digital content on their computers and smartphones and tablets.

All of this is why I think the DC relaunch with day-and-date digital releases is really smart. If DC cares to have DC Comics continue to be profitable, they really need to get out of the business of keeping Diamond and the direct market alive. And all those things Brian says about why he's not going to order most of the relaunched titles... they're all moot when you're talking about downloaded comics. There are no ordering costs, no shipping, no inventory, no stocking or guessing how many copies you'll need. Those problems are the retailers', but they are de facto DC's, too, if they cause comic books to go unsold (or unordered when they could have been sold, which is the same thing). Or they would be DC's problem, except for the fact that any book a customer can't get from his 'LCS' is only a click away.

This relaunch might be great for the direct market. It also might kill the direct market, with its notorious fragility. Killing the direct market would hurt the comic book publishing industry, no doubt, although it would recover. But would it hurt DC (and Marvel)? I don't think it really would, because neither of them needs to make money off of comic books. And they've been building alternatives to the direct market - alternatives with a global, instantaneous reach.

[dd2]

That Brian is correct. The argument is laid out and backed with facts from his long experience as a retailer. It should be equally as obvious that WB/DC employs at least a few competent marketers and accountants. They have concluded that this move is in THEIR best interest, rightly or wrongly concluded. That does not mean it has the best interest of the DM in mind as well. If they decide that digital and bookstores generate enough revenue, in a bean counter sense, to nourish the intellectual property, which is WB's first concern, the DM will be allowed the die on the vine

[briest57]

That 99% of the Green Lantern movie audience is *all* potential new comic book customers..

Slight exageration there. I know lots of people who love super hero movies but would never read a comic book. A large section of adults still consider them for kids.

[bluetyson]

I don't know any other business that you can't order from direct.


I do - and funnily enough, they are publishers of printed reading material. Those book things.

[bluetyson]

They've got comics on the shelves in Barnes & Noble now. These books will be available online. There's going to be a national ad campaign. I expect you'll be seeing more venues for these books that we haven't heard about yet.


Like comic shops, there will be fewer Barnes & Noble shops next year.

Nation ad campaign - but do they have an international internet ad campaign is what is also interesting.

[bluetyson]

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.



Sometimes they are, but at $9.00 in Australia and $12 in New Zealand counting the sales won't take too long.....

[nilzero]

That Brian is correct. The argument is laid out and backed with facts from his long experience as a retailer. It should be equally as obvious that WB/DC employs at least a few competent marketers and accountants. They have concluded that this move is in THEIR best interest, rightly or wrongly concluded. That does not mean it has the best interest of the DM in mind as well. If they decide that digital and bookstores generate enough revenue, in a bean counter sense, to nourish the intellectual property, which is WB's first concern, the DM will be allowed the die on the vine
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I agree. The DM will eventually become a loss leader for Marvel and DC. Digital sales may help the DM in an indirect way. If digital is profitable enough, then keeping the print side as a loss leader can work. But at what point is the loss still useful?
Will the DM become an exclusive variant copy, limited edition, signed and autographed (and numbered) artificial scarcity business model?
It's the same thing for music with CD's. The DM and CD's will end once Digital becomes affordable and universal. This could take awhile. There are still enough people that sustain both formats.
The convenience of digital over owning and storing the physical stuff is a reality that can't be ignored and one of the main reasons why a lot of book stores have been closing down. If the big book stores are having problems staying in business then the DM is in serious trouble.
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[mistergoodman]

Releasing 52 number ones in one go is stupid.

DC should be doing this over 3 months, with 18 issues a month [still $50] or even 1 year, with each issue becoming the new feature of the week.

...

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

Maybe they need to speak to the guy who does the distribution for Archie/ Betty and Veronica, that shit is everywhere.

Actually Archie comics aren't "everywhere". And they put out a total of 14 comics a month or so, half of which are $4 digests (a format Marvel and DC's comics don't necessarily lend themselves well to). And not a lot of convenience stores are looking to expand the number of magazines they carry these days- it's actually going in the other direction. And newstands themselves are dying.

Spreading out the first issues would make things easy for the direct market, but would make for a far more muddled marketing campaign. "We're rolling out all-new first issues right now" is a better message than "We're rolling out all new first issues eventually". It looks like they're trying to keep things as simple and appealing for new digital readers as possible, with new number ones and accessible jumping on points for everything accross the line.

[QCCBob]

I agree. The DM will eventually become a loss leader for Marvel and DC.

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

[JohnnyLiar]

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

This! For DC and Marvel it doesn't really matter how many books stay on the shelves, as long as they're out of their hands, they've made their money.

[nilzero]

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.
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Yes, and that's right now. Digital is inevitable. Keeping the print market alive is possible but how long until print becomes a loss leader entry point?
If digital fails for comics then what? I think that will be the end of the majority of them if not all.
Would Marvel and DC eventually adapt to how Avatar releases comics?
Avatar will release 4 to 6 different covers for a single issue, has limited press runs on some of these covers (i.e. ltd 1500), sometimes autographed and bagged sets. This is the direction comics seem to be going.
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[mistergoodman]

Would Marvel and DC eventually adapt to how Avatar releases comics?
Avatar will release 4 to 6 different covers for a single issue, has limited press runs on some of these covers (i.e. ltd 1500), sometimes autographed and bagged sets. This is the direction comics seem to be going.


I don't think Marvel or DC would keep the publishing divisions open if they got that small. Not worth the hassle. In fact, I suspect one reason DC and Marvel are flooding the market with books is to keep revenues up for their corporate masters, to keep heads from rolling.

[fever00]

I'm a big Vertigo reader. I buy pretty much everything the imprint publishes. The only DCU stuff I've bought recently has been stuff written by Jeff Lemire. I'm kind of fascinated by the DCU reboot. There are at least four titles I'll be buying at least the first arc of.
I've also been illegally downloading a lot of the Flashpoint books. The only way they'd be able to get me to pay for those was if they charged like a buck an issue for digital issues. They could make a lot of money this way, if they loaded the books with ads..

[mistergoodman]

I've also been illegally downloading a lot of the Flashpoint books. The only way they'd be able to get me to pay for those was if they charged like a buck an issue for digital issues. They could make a lot of money this way, if they loaded the books with ads..

DC actually does do that now and then. They had a two day Blackest Night sale a few months ago where Blackest Night and every single tie-in issue were offered for 99 cents each digitally. They did the same thing with the New Krypton saga. ComiXology generally does at least two 99 cent sales a week, at least one of them Marvel (today it's 13 issues of X-Force and Cable from 2009). It's worth keeping an eye on via Twitter. DC has a sale about every two months.

[fever00]

Yeah, but by the time they get around to it I've either downloaded it illegally, or gotten it from the library.

[bluetyson]

DC actually does do that now and then. They had a two day Blackest Night sale a few months ago where Blackest Night and every single tie-in issue were offered for 99 cents each digitally. They did the same thing with the New Krypton saga. ComiXology generally does at least two 99 cent sales a week, at least one of them Marvel (today it's 13 issues of X-Force and Cable from 2009). It's worth keeping an eye on via Twitter. DC has a sale about every two months.


Which is really cool and a great idea - but part of the point of keeping up with periodicals, is the keeping up part.

So they could have sold 'subscribe to Blackest Night' in advance.

[nilzero]

I don't think Marvel or DC would keep the publishing divisions open if they got that small. Not worth the hassle. In fact, I suspect one reason DC and Marvel are flooding the market with books is to keep revenues up for their corporate masters, to keep heads from rolling.
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Someone suggested on one of these forums that it might be cheaper to renew the copyright of any given character by releasing a comic instead of a new tv show or movie. Any idea if that's true?
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www.lulu.com/spotlight/zerodreamidea

[the Dagman]

Brian, I am thinking that CBR's poll on what books the site's readers are picking up is more useful to retailers than it is to DC. As the LCS caters primarily to the existing comic fan base, while DC is shooting for a break out in digital. Do you plan on using it at all to order the books in your store?


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Someone suggested on one of these forums that it might be cheaper to renew the copyright of any given character by releasing a comic instead of a new tv show or movie. Any idea if that's true?

I believe you are referring to renewing a trademark, not copyright. Copyright law doesn't work that way.

[nilzero]

Brian, I am thinking that CBR's poll on what books the site's readers are picking up is more useful to retailers than it is to DC. As the LCS caters primarily to the existing comic fan base, while DC is shooting for a break out in digital. Do you plan on using it at all to order the books in your store?



I believe you are referring to renewing a trademark, not copyright. Copyright law doesn't work that way.
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Yeah, my mistake. So... is it cheaper to renew a trademark by printing up some comics instead of making a movie or tv show?
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[the Dagman]

Yeah, my mistake. So... is it cheaper to renew a trademark by printing up some comics instead of making a movie or tv show?

Sure it would. Just like Marvel did with Marvelman. Just slapping together a book of old reprints and selling it should be enough to prove you have not vacated the trademark.

[nilzero]

Sure it would. Just like Marvel did with Marvelman. Just slapping together a book of old reprints and selling it should be enough to prove you have not vacated the trademark.
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Thanks. Then this may become the future of print comics for Marvel and DC, depending on how well Digital does.
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www.lulu.com/spotlight/zerodreamidea

[briest57]

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

No it is you who totally misunderstands how business works. You seem to think the only costs involved are the price to print books.

Marvel still have to pay writers, artists, rent, back office staff, taxes etc. If book sell so low they don't cover those costs they will lose money even if they sell every copy.

In the firm I work(not comics) we make nothing and I mean nothing without selling it first yet we still lose millions on these projects.

[bringthenoise]

Marvel still have to pay writers, artists, rent, back office staff, taxes etc. If book sell so low they don't cover those costs they will lose money even if they sell every copy.

Except that Marvel would cancel the book before it got to that level.


In the firm I work(not comics) we make nothing and I mean nothing without selling it first yet we still lose millions on these projects.

If your company does this on a frequent basis, I'd recommend you look for a new job before it goes under. Good companies do not keep taking on loss making projects.