The "Who is the new Swordsman?" Thread [Archive]

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 11:17 AM

As we all know, the identity of the new Swordsman is a mystery.

There is about a 100% chance that the new Swordsman is an established character.

So here is the thread for us all to discuss who we think is the Swordsman.

Here comes my guess, and I think (in all humility ;)) that it is a pretty darn good one, as it just makes so much sense.

Ready?

Andreas Von Strucker.

His sister is now dead (killed by what writer? Nicieza).

He has a connection to Baron Von Strucker.

He is a good swordsman.

He is a villain seeking redemption.

So what do you think?

If you disagree, make your picks! :)

-Brian

mattbib

01-09-2005, 11:45 AM

My first guess was Baron Zemo. And that he's protecting the Thunderbolts for purely personal, not altruistic, reasons.

But Andreas is a great guess too! I hadn't considered that.

protege

01-09-2005, 11:51 AM

I'm not all that familiar with Andreas; is he von strucker's son? Why would he try to kill His own father?

Dermie

01-09-2005, 12:08 PM

My first guess was Baron Zemo. And that he's protecting the Thunderbolts for purely personal, not altruistic, reasons.

But Andreas is a great guess too! I hadn't considered that.

The Zemo guess is understandable, but unlikely given Zemo's status at the end of the Avengers/Thunderbolts miniseries. It just isn't consistent with the direction that character was headed.

As for Andreas, that is an interesting idea. Of course, the last time I saw him he was working with his father rather than against him, so it seems a bit strange that he would now try and kill him...but then, he and Andrea have also had their share of arguments with Strucker, so it isn't necessarily that big of a stretch.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 12:13 PM

I thought the shtick was that the new Swordsman was under the control of the Purple Man?

Was I imagining that?

-Brian

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 12:45 PM

The Zemo guess is understandable, but unlikely given Zemo's status at the end of the Avengers/Thunderbolts miniseries. It just isn't consistent with the direction that character was headed.

As for Andreas, that is an interesting idea. Of course, the last time I saw him he was working with his father rather than against him, so it seems a bit strange that he would now try and kill him...but then, he and Andrea have also had their share of arguments with Strucker, so it isn't necessarily that big of a stretch.

if it would be inconsistent w/ Zemo, why would it be consistent for Andreas? and where does everyone get the idea that he was a good Swordsman from? the guy was a pushover unless he was in physical contact w/ his sister from what i remember. and why would he want to protect the Thunderbolts?

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 12:49 PM

I'm pretty sure that he's being controlled by the Purple Man.

And both of the Von Struckers are trained fencers.

-Brian

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 01:00 PM

I'm pretty sure that he's being controlled by the Purple Man.

And both of the Von Struckers are trained fencers.

-Brian

well if it is Andreas, then i will officially be unimpressed by 3 incarnations of the character. 3 strikes you're out. and what happened to Werner von Strucker?

mattbib

01-09-2005, 01:10 PM

I thought the shtick was that the new Swordsman was under the control of the Purple Man?

Was I imagining that?I hadn't heard that, then again I've been quite behind in reading comics, and have totally been avoiding press and interviews. Was this something in an interview somewhere? If it is the Purple Man, then that raises more questions. Why would the Purple Man be interested in protecting the Thunderbolts? I wonder how closely, if at all, Nicieza and Bendis have been in contact in regards to plotting their respective titles.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 01:22 PM

I think there was some mention of Nicieza asking for the use of Purple Man, and receiving it....and then Bendis using him anyways. :)

Although, to be fair, maybe New Thunderbolts is the story that LEADS to the Purple Man ending up in the Raft.

Maybe? :)

-Brian

Dermie

01-09-2005, 01:29 PM

I thought the shtick was that the new Swordsman was under the control of the Purple Man?

Was I imagining that?

-Brian

He's working with Purple Man, but there has been nothing yet that says he is under Purple Man's control, and nothing really to say he is not either.
The only real clue either way is that Swordsman is still following their agenda without Purple Man around--usually when someone is under Purple Man's control, that control weakens and falls apart once they are out of his presence since it is based on chemicals emitted from his body.
However, that isn't necessarily conclusive. Right now we just don't know if Swordsman is being controlled or not.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 01:35 PM

He's working with Purple Man, but there has been nothing yet that says he is under Purple Man's control, and nothing really to say he is not either.
The only real clue either way is that Swordsman is still following their agenda without Purple Man around--usually when someone is under Purple Man's control, that control weakens and falls apart once they are out of his presence since it is based on chemicals emitted from his body.
However, that isn't necessarily conclusive. Right now we just don't know if Swordsman is being controlled or not.

I guess I just figured a dude hanging out with the Purple Man would be being controlled by him. :)

Especially since that would allow Nicieza to make the Swordsman pretty much ANYone, as the Purple Man would just make the person be the Swordsman.

Are their preview pages up for #4?

Let me see if there are any more clues to my Andreas pick (which I'm beginning to think is more and more likely). :)

-Brian

Dermie

01-09-2005, 01:38 PM

if it would be inconsistent w/ Zemo, why would it be consistent for Andreas?

What does the one have to do with the other? :confused:
The reason it is inconsistent for Zemo is because he currently has the power of two moonstones in his possession, and was preparing for large-scale plans, and putting on the Zemo-mask again and re-establishing himself in that identity. It would be inconsistent for him to now be running around playing with swords and hiding himself in a new identity.
How does that apply to Andreas?
I'm hardly an expert on Andreas, so I wouldn't presume to say what is and is not consistent for him. As I said, it did seem odd to me that he would now be against his father since he was working with his father when last I saw him (btw, has Andreas been seen at all since then?) but then as I recall he has also been an enemy of Strucker's as well, so that relationship seems to flip-flop every now and then.

and where does everyone get the idea that he was a good Swordsman from? the guy was a pushover unless he was in physical contact w/ his sister from what i remember.

I don't know anything about him being a good swordsman either--I was just taking Brian's word for it, since as I said, I am hardly an expert on the character.

and why would he want to protect the Thunderbolts?

On that subject, we should keep in mind that Swordsman's statements about the T-Bolts have been contradictory. In #2 he tells Purple Man that they are going to destroy the T-Bolts. In #3 he tells Strucker that the T-Bolts are under his protection.
So....is he lying to Purple Man? Is he lying to Strucker? Is he telling the truth in BOTH cases--protecting the T-Bolts in order to use (and destroy) them himself as part of his and Purple Man's plan?
There is obviously info we don't have yet in order to put all the pieces together.

Dermie

01-09-2005, 01:41 PM

I guess I just figured a dude hanging out with the Purple Man would be being controlled by him. :)

Especially since that would allow Nicieza to make the Swordsman pretty much ANYone, as the Purple Man would just make the person be the Swordsman.

Are their preview pages up for #4?

Let me see if there are any more clues to my Andreas pick (which I'm beginning to think is more and more likely). :)

-Brian

Preview pages for #4 have been up at Popcultureshock since the day #3 came out! (they are really getting aggressive with these advance previews, huh?)
Still nothing that says that Swordsman is under Purple Man's control, and nothing that says he isn't. You're right that it is a natural assumption that someone with Purple Man is under his control...but it isn't always necessarily the case.

Dermie

01-09-2005, 01:44 PM

I think there was some mention of Nicieza asking for the use of Purple Man, and receiving it....and then Bendis using him anyways. :)

I think the editors are sorting out the issues between Purple Man in T-Bolts and New Avengers. Both writers wanted him, both writers got him, now it is just a matter of making the two fit.

Although, to be fair, maybe New Thunderbolts is the story that LEADS to the Purple Man ending up in the Raft.

Maybe? :)

-Brian

It is possible--that is basically what Fabian suggested back when asked about it. And it makes sense in the timeline, since T-Bolts #1-6 are supposed to take place during the gap between Avengers Disassembled and New Avengers #1.
On the otherhand, I believe the directors cut for New Avengers #1 made some mention that the T-Bolts appearance is *after* he breaks out in New Avengers....but for now I'm gonna assume/hope that was a typo, since it doesn't make sense for the timeline.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 01:45 PM

Here are the preview pages for #4.

http://img137.exs.cx/img137/5577/482.jpg
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/9977/483.jpg
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/9199/484.jpg
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/2520/485.jpg

So Purple Man believed that the sword would NOT kill Baron Von Strucker, so that would explain why Andreas would be willing to do it.

In addition, Purple Man says "And I? I control whatever - and whomever - I desire."

Which makes me think he is controlling the Swordsman.

-Brian

Dermie

01-09-2005, 02:02 PM

In addition, Purple Man says "And I? I control whatever - and whomever - I desire."

Which makes me think he is controlling the Swordsman.

-Brian

But that still doesn't provide anything that says he is controlling Swordsman. It just confirms that Purple Man has mind control powers, which we already knew. It is possible that Swordsman is working with him of his own free will...and as I mentioned before, it is not usual for Purple Man's subjects to remain under his influence after they are out of his presence, as Swordsman is here while fighting Strucker.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 02:18 PM

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 02:24 PM

something that would shed a lot of light on this for me is the answer to this question; is Purple Man speaking through Swordsman? because for some reason, i can't see Andreas calling his father a prussian spigot or going on about how heroic the original Swordsman was. then again, i couldn't imagine Killgrave saying the latter either.

protege

01-09-2005, 02:26 PM

As far as the timeline goes, NT# started a few weeks after Avengers; finale, and i think NA#1 starts six months down the road. So there's plenty of marvel time for the Tbolts to bust up the Purple man's plan, and send Him off to the raft.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 02:33 PM

But that still doesn't provide anything that says he is controlling Swordsman. It just confirms that Purple Man has mind control powers, which we already knew. It is possible that Swordsman is working with him of his own free will...and as I mentioned before, it is not usual for Purple Man's subjects to remain under his influence after they are out of his presence, as Swordsman is here while fighting Strucker.

why do you say that? i've seen Purple Man give random people commands to travel to a location and do something (like wait at a hotel for him) before. and wasn't he sitting outside of Scott Lang's room when he set Jessica up to find Lang covered in ants?

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page1&issue=02318686517%2028

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 02:39 PM

there's an extended preview here...

http://www.toynewsi.com/index.php?catid=99&itemid=5607

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 02:41 PM

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 02:42 PM

What does the one have to do with the other? :confused:
The reason it is inconsistent for Zemo is because he currently has the power of two moonstones in his possession, and was preparing for large-scale plans, and putting on the Zemo-mask again and re-establishing himself in that identity. It would be inconsistent for him to now be running around playing with swords and hiding himself in a new identity.

not if Purple Man were controlling him.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 02:44 PM

Thanks!

And another hint going towards my theory!

Purple Man's caption during the fight between Swordsman and Von Strucker?

"It's a fine line. As thin a line as that between father and son, love and hate..."

Come on, that CAN'T be a coincidence, can it?

-Brian

yeah, i noticed it. and i'm always amazed at who Nicieza chooses to unearth. that's going to be a major let down for me if it's just Strucker's son. oh well.

Dermie

01-09-2005, 03:14 PM

Didn't he have Jessica Jones punch Scarlet Witch in Alias outside his direct contact?

-Brian

Yes, and as was mentioned in that story, she had 8 months of exposure to Purple Man, so it was built up in her system. His control over her was fading every moment while she was out of his presence, it just didn't run out in time (as was also stated in that story).

Dermie

01-09-2005, 03:17 PM

why do you say that? i've seen Purple Man give random people commands to travel to a location and do something (like wait at a hotel for him) before. and wasn't he sitting outside of Scott Lang's room when he set Jessica up to find Lang covered in ants?

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page1&issue=02318686517%2028

He was inside Scott's room, not outside.
As for why I say it, it is because it is something that has been established about his powers--it is caused by exposure to his body chemicals.
Obviously, it takes a certain amount of time for it to wear off, so it is possible for him to order people to do stuff out of his presence, which is why I did not say that this proves anything either way--I simply brought it up as a factor to keep in mind.

Dermie

01-09-2005, 03:20 PM

not if Purple Man were controlling him.

Granted, although I have my doubts that Purple Man would be able to track down Zemo and enslave him. Zemo could be anywhere on Earth, and Purple Man has spent most of his time lately in the Raft.

Doom Hammer

01-09-2005, 03:28 PM

This stuff pretty much puts my Hawkeye theory to shame...

I hate life.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 04:18 PM

Granted, although I have my doubts that Purple Man would be able to track down Zemo and enslave him. Zemo could be anywhere on Earth, and Purple Man has spent most of his time lately in the Raft.

granted but it's not like Andreas von Strucker is in the phone book either. he's a wanted felon/terrorist. Purple Man, after escaping from the Raft, would have to do just as much leg work to plan all of this as he would for Zemo; i'd think.

the best evidence of it being Andreas that i've seen so far are..

1. the 'father and son' line in the above preview

and

2. Purple Man having a lot of knowledge about Hydra

that doesn't explain to me why he's verbally defending the Swordsman's heroism or claiming to want to protect the Thunderbolts. why would the Purple Man or Andreas be interested in the team?

what would nail it for me is if this new Swordsman starts talking in the Strucker's native tongue. i remember an exchange between Andrea and Baron Strucker in which he chastised his daughter for not speaking german when her brother would have (Citizen V series).

Dermie

01-09-2005, 04:22 PM

granted but it's not like Andreas von Strucker is in the phone book either. he's a wanted felon/terrorist. Purple Man, after escaping from the Raft, would have to do just as much leg work to plan all of this as he would for Zemo; i'd think.

True...is just have a hard time seeing it be Zemo. Fabian and Kurt seemed to be setting him up in one direction in the mini--I don't think they'd do that and then completely reverse it by having him be Swordsman.

the best evidence of it being Andreas that i've seen so far are..

1. the 'father and son' line in the above preview

and

2. Purple Man having a lot of knowledge about Hydra

Yeah, those are some good factors for that theory.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 04:32 PM

just to make it official, i think it's Zemo. i have no proof of this but i don't want to go w/ the crowd on this one and Zemo was my initial guess. that "father and son" line could easily have fit w/ Helmut's relationship w/ his own father. and there's just a lot about this swordsman that reminds me of zemo's act as citizen v and the later zemo who had the undamaged face. same wit. same arrogance. same sword moves. he would definately have something against the Baron. and i could see him both wanting the Tbolts to succeed and maybe deep down wanting to see them destroyed. Helmut's a complicated guy. but i won't be disappointed if it isn't him either.

P.S. could the new Swordsman helmet be designed to block out the Purple Man's phereomones? that would mean that the two of them are actually working together. it wouldn't be out of character for Zemo to join up w/ a mind-controller. perhaps he's just saving the moonstones for another part of his plan.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 04:35 PM

True...is just have a hard time seeing it be Zemo. Fabian and Kurt seemed to be setting him up in one direction in the mini--I don't think they'd do that and then completely reverse it by having him be Swordsman.

yeah but what'd they set him up for? we didn't see Zemo absorb the moonstones. he didn't immediately try to kill the Tbolts or get revenge for Karla's death did he? the best bet is that he's out to save the world by controlling it, correct? *Control* also comes up in the preview. Father and Son comes up in the preview. why is Purple Man spying on the Swordsman? because he's working w/ the 'Swordsman' and doesn't trust his partner. he doesn't trust his partner because he can't control him (helmet). look at the color scheme. Zemo *loves* purple. j/k anyways, just think it over. Zemo would know about the original Swordsman and might respect him given his own transformations over the years. this is a guy who started out calling himself the Phoenix. it's all about rebirth. :D

Edit: and it's obvious that the two are working together. Purple man says "We suspected that the deathspore virus would protect him" or what not.

Final Edit: the Swordsman helmet is shaped like a 'V.' that goes for both of Helmut's alternate disguises; Phoenix and Citizen V. :D

StoneGold

01-09-2005, 06:04 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Swordsman's real identity? Yep, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 06:14 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Swordsman's real identity? Yep, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.

That's what the Germans WANT you to believe.

-Brian

Cayman

01-09-2005, 06:19 PM

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 07:04 PM

He seems to change speech patterns in the middle of the conversation. At first he's using really high-camp 70s supervillian speech and then he gets a more natural tone. But I don't know what that means as far as his identity.

I'm guessing he's playing both Strucker and the Purple Man though.

Cay

Zemo used to do the same thing when he started out as Citizen V. that's why he had Karla around; to keep him in character. ;)

yeah, i'm still not thinking this was Andreas Strucker. Andrea actually helped Citizen V (not knowing that he was Zemo) in entering a Hydra base way back when. and Andreas was tied up somewhere else. i can't for certain but that makes me think that Zemo saw Andreas as being, perhaps, more loyal to his father than Andrea. but things change. i've just always seen the brother Strucker as a bit of a fop; lacking the seriousness to pull something like this off.

Brian Cronin

01-09-2005, 07:17 PM

Dermie

01-09-2005, 08:36 PM

yeah but what'd they set him up for? we didn't see Zemo absorb the moonstones. he didn't immediately try to kill the Tbolts or get revenge for Karla's death did he?

Nope. As Kurt said at the time, Zemo is too smart to absorb them into himself--he saw the effect they had on Karla. Her personality was affected by memories imprinted into one of the stones, back in volume 1. So Zemo wouldn't absorb them into himself, but he'd still use their power.

the best bet is that he's out to save the world by controlling it, correct?

I'd say so.

Anyway, you raise some valid and interesting points--but I'm not convinced. There is still the fact that Zemo was returning to the Zemo identity and mask--why would he suddenly be disguising himself again? He has untold power with the moonstones--why is he playing with swords instead?
Also, Fabian has said that he plans to get around to Zemo "eventually" but that he is holding off on using him for now. That leads me to believe that Swordsman is not Zemo.

Catalyst

01-09-2005, 09:06 PM

Right, Andreas WAS a loser...which is why it's interesting to see him become independent.

And come on, fathers and sons WHILE Baron and Swordsman are fighting?

Nicieza killing off his sister?

The fact that it would be a total surprise?

It's gotta be Andreas.

-Brian

you've made great points but would it be a "surprise." Andreas is someone that we've seen before. and he's strangely absent from all of these Hydra stories despite being quite prominent in the Citizen V storyline alongside his father. and the fact that he'd just be out there in limbo w/o his sister. signs are definately pointing towards him. and that father and son line wasn't hard to spot. but let's say that it is Andreas. i'm going to have at least one immediate question. when did this kid actually grow a pair? he's been a slacker pushover his entire marvel existance. his sister called most of the shots when they were still Fenris. but yeah i think he's physically capable of being the swordsman. he was quite agile in his Generation X appearance. of course, i've never personally seen him use a sword; having most but not all of his appearances. just doesn't feel right to me. then, again, i didn't feel right about Scourge being Nomad either. oh well. we'll all find out together. :D

Vegetarian Goat

01-09-2005, 09:17 PM

Nicieza killing off his sister?

When did that happen?

Dermie

01-09-2005, 09:25 PM

When did that happen?

In the first Citizen V miniseries--she realized that Citizen V was actually Zemo in disguise, so he killed her to protect his secret.

Dermie

01-09-2005, 09:29 PM

you've made great points but would it be a "surprise." Andreas is someone that we've seen before.

True...but if it is someone we've never seen before, there is also little point in hiding the identity. After all, if it is an all-new character, it wouldn't make much impact (unless they're gonna go for another "Justina Hammer" type reveal--but I hope not).

but let's say that it is Andreas. i'm going to have at least one immediate question. when did this kid actually grow a pair?

Obviously some time before Citizen V #2. ;)

he's been a slacker pushover his entire marvel existance. his sister called most of the shots when they were still Fenris.

Perhaps her death has motivated him to take more control of his life and get out from under his sister and his father's shadows?

then, again, i didn't feel right about Scourge being Nomad either.

*l* Well, Nomad didn't feel right about it either...pesky nanoprobes. :p

oh well. we'll all find out together. :D

Yep! :)

Brian Cronin

01-10-2005, 01:48 AM

you've made great points but would it be a "surprise."

Since none of us, myself included, ever mentioned his name even until today, I think that still qualifies as a surprise. :D

-Brian

Flight

01-10-2005, 07:57 AM

I had just... PRESUMED it was Hawkeye!

mastaflan

01-10-2005, 04:21 PM

are 2 purple men?

The one in The Raft being the Original Zebediah Kilgrave.

The one controlling the swordsman is Eric Kilgrave.

Are they the same or guy? Eric and Zebedaiah?

Kirk G

01-10-2005, 05:51 PM

if it would be inconsistent w/ Zemo, why would it be consistent for Andreas? and where does everyone get the idea that he was a good Swordsman from? the guy was a pushover unless he was in physical contact w/ his sister from what i remember. and why would he want to protect the Thunderbolts?

It's HAWKEYE!

Hawkeye, damn it!

Remember, Wanda was there when the original Swordsman arrived in Avengers #19!!!! She's been around Clint and Sowrdsman through their long tourchard (sp?) history...

and, she was warping reality...
Hawkeye would have a reason to protect them, the T-bolts, right??
And, he's always been jealous of the skill of the Swordsman, since day one...

It's HAWKEYE!!!! :rolleyes:

Gaz

01-10-2005, 05:55 PM

And you're cool with Clint stabbing a guy?

Cayman

01-10-2005, 06:53 PM

And you're cool with Clint stabbing a guy?

He knew it would be non-fatal.

If it is Clint, he used to shoot arrows. Arrows must poke into bad guys at least once in awhile.

Cay

Dermie

01-10-2005, 07:15 PM

are 2 purple men?

The one in The Raft being the Original Zebediah Kilgrave.

The one controlling the swordsman is Eric Kilgrave.

Are they the same or guy? Eric and Zebedaiah?

It is the same guy--Fabian has said that "Eric" was a typo.

Brian Cronin

01-10-2005, 07:17 PM

It is the same guy--Fabian has said that "Eric" was a typo.

I think he should have tried to say Eric was a nickname for Zebediah.

And if people say, "No, it isn't!" he could reply, "Oh really? How many Zebediahs do YOU know?"

And people would be silenced.

-Brian

Dermie

01-10-2005, 07:21 PM

I think he should have tried to say Eric was a nickname for Zebediah.

And if people say, "No, it isn't!" he could reply, "Oh really? How many Zebediahs do YOU know?"

And people would be silenced.

-Brian

Well, I think Fabian said he was gonna explain it away in an upcoming issue, so it may end up being a nickname or a middle name or something.

Cayman

01-10-2005, 07:21 PM

I think he should have tried to say Eric was a nickname for Zebediah.

And if people say, "No, it isn't!" he could reply, "Oh really? How many Zebediahs do YOU know?"

And people would be silenced.

-Brian

I was thinking Erik was correct, but my cat tore up the 'p' issue of The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Obviously, my cat is in league with the Purple Man.

Spookily enough, my cat's name is Zebediah.

Cay

Brian Cronin

01-10-2005, 07:23 PM

Dermie

01-10-2005, 07:24 PM

I was thinking Erik was correct, but my cat tore up the 'p' issue of The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Obviously, my cat is in league with the Purple Man.

Spookily enough, my cat's name is Zebediah.

Cay

That is spooky.
Anyway, Zebediah Killgrave has always been Purple Man's real name...in every appearance except New T-Bolts #2. The main guess right now is that Erik will be his middle name.
Someone on another board suggested making Eric his real first name and have Zebediah be the middle name....but then Kurt Busiek pointed out that would lead to jokes about him being "EZ (easy) Killgrave". :rolleyes:

Cayman

01-10-2005, 07:29 PM

That is spooky.
Anyway, Zebediah Killgrave has always been Purple Man's real name...in every appearance except New T-Bolts #2. The main guess right now is that Erik will be his middle name.
Someone on another board suggested making Eric his real first name and have Zebediah be the middle name....but then Kurt Busiek pointed out that would lead to jokes about him being "EZ (easy) Killgrave". :rolleyes:

No wonder he turned to a life of crime.

What's his daughter's name?

Cay

Dermie

01-10-2005, 07:31 PM

No wonder he turned to a life of crime.

What's his daughter's name?

Cay

Kara. I don't think he was involved in naming her--as I recall, the mother escaped before Killgrave discovered she was pregnant.

Catalyst

01-10-2005, 10:31 PM

I think he should have tried to say Eric was a nickname for Zebediah.

And if people say, "No, it isn't!" he could reply, "Oh really? How many Zebediahs do YOU know?"

And people would be silenced.

-Brian

i was in the same college dorm as two of them. of course, one Zeb never came out of his room and swore that his full name was 'Zebulon.'

Catalyst

01-10-2005, 10:35 PM

It's HAWKEYE!

Hawkeye, damn it!

Remember, Wanda was there when the original Swordsman arrived in Avengers #19!!!! She's been around Clint and Sowrdsman through their long tourchard (sp?) history...

and, she was warping reality...
Hawkeye would have a reason to protect them, the T-bolts, right??
And, he's always been jealous of the skill of the Swordsman, since day one...

It's HAWKEYE!!!! :rolleyes:

Fabian said it wasn't. just ask Dermie.

Cayman

01-11-2005, 07:43 PM

Maybe Nicieza is engaging in a bit of misdirection.

Maybe Daimon Hellstrom rescued Hawkeye at the last moment as thanks for rescuing Patsy Walker from Hell ... but in a diabolical, relation of Satan-esque twist, he put Hawkeye's soul in demon's body!

Cay

thorionthei

01-11-2005, 10:47 PM

I guessed somewhere else but just wanna say I think it's the son of Zemo!

tricksterpup

01-12-2005, 08:17 AM

Nah, who else could it be but..
Capt. H.M. "Howling Mad" Murdock from the A-Team.
http://www.geocities.com/leeslaundry/photos/83serious.jpg

After all, he was a Marvel Character. :)
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/00778367902.1.gif

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 03:42 PM

So . . . post NEW THUNDERBOLTS #3, what do we know?

I'd be leaning towards Andreas, per Brian's idea, but the whole "dichotomy of his upbringing" thing doesn't seem to apply to him.

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 03:46 PM

So . . . post NEW THUNDERBOLTS #3, what do we know?

I'd be leaning towards Andreas, per Brian's idea, but the whole "dichotomy of his upbringing" thing doesn't seem to apply to him.

Dichotomy - the dude was one half of Fenris! :)

I am liking my guess more and more....

-Brian

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 03:49 PM

Dichotomy - the dude was one half of Fenris!The full quote is "He liked the variety; Errol Flynn meets Conan. It appealed to the dichotomy of his upbringing."

That's really doesn't sound like a Fenris reference.

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:03 PM

The full quote is "He liked the variety; Errol Flynn meets Conan. It appealed to the dichotomy of his upbringing."

That's really doesn't sound like a Fenris reference.

sure it does. on one hand, the Struckers were raised as members of high society. on the other, he was trained to be a member of Hydra/a warrior.

plus, i don't have the issue you're referencing. is that quote in reference to his choice of weapon?

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 04:13 PM

The full quote is "He liked the variety; Errol Flynn meets Conan. It appealed to the dichotomy of his upbringing."

That's really doesn't sound like a Fenris reference.

Bah.

Dichotomy MUST mean Fenris!!

It MUST!!!

Hehe.

-Brian

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 04:15 PM

sure it does. on one hand, the Struckers were raised as members of high society. on the other, he was trained to be a member of Hydra/a warrior.The quote was in reference to his being assigned the "Swordsman" identity by Killgrave.

And the warrior thing seems like a stretch, to me. Strucker was raised as a pampered, spoiled little Nazi, little more.

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:22 PM

The quote was in reference to his being assigned the "Swordsman" identity by Killgrave.

And the warrior thing seems like a stretch, to me. Strucker was raised as a pampered, spoiled little Nazi, little more.

i'm just going by observation. they were both trained to swordfight. in my first encounter w/ the character, he was on safari. they both led their own subversive organization and took part in physical missions; Fenris. they were both excellent at hand-to-hand combat in their Generation X'96 appearance. Andreas was a real acrobat in that story. but that dichotomy part is that they come off as pampered a lot of the time. do you really think Baron Strucker would raise them to be weak, given his own belief system. he had the kids experimented on to give them 'mutant' powers.

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:23 PM

Bah.

Dichotomy MUST mean Fenris!!

It MUST!!!

Hehe.

-Brian

so does it qualify as obvious yet? ;)

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 04:26 PM

so does it qualify as obvious yet? ;)

Hehe...only if you ask yourself, if you weren't already thinking about it, would you have thought he was Andreas?

If the answer is yes, then sure, it's obvious. :D

-Brian

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:31 PM

Hehe...only if you ask yourself, if you weren't already thinking about it, would you have thought he was Andreas?

If the answer is yes, then sure, it's obvious. :D

-Brian

i'm just saying that he 'dichotomy' comment along with the 'father and son' comment would have tipped me off. i've actually got a bunch of Fenris appearances. even that really stupid one where they team up with Avalanche and Pyro. and where they attack Magneto's court hearing. and the one where Andreas tries to rape some girl and Storm kicks his butt. and the one where they revive Omega Red. and the Citizen V appearances. and the Childs Play arc. of course, i don't have too many Werner von Strucker appearances. ;) he's dead right?

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 04:33 PM

Werner is lame. :)

-Brian

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:35 PM

Werner is lame. :)

-Brian

yeah, he's not cool enough to have his balls twisted by Citizen V. i think Gambit dissed him in a similar fashion as well/tried to put his tongue down Andrea's throat (like it's difficult). ;)

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 04:38 PM

. . . along with the 'father and son' comment would have tipped me off.I totally missed that line.

Yeah, it has to be Andreas.

I still think the "dichotomy" line is a stretch, though.

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 04:39 PM

I totally missed that line.

Yeah, it has to be Andreas.

I still think the "dichotomy" line is a stretch, though.

well, if it is Andreas Strucker, you can bet that Fabian will make it fit. observe the backgrounds of the original t-bolts. did any of you think that Zemo had an ounce of compassion after he mutated that guy into Vermin? who wudda thunk it?

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 04:47 PM

well, if it is Andreas Strucker, you can bet that Fabian will make it fit.Right, but it's a little unfair to drop clues that refer to as-yet-unrevealed retcons.

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 04:51 PM

In the latest issue, didn't Swordsman also appear to have some sort of energy power?

AND Wolverine both KNOWS him and DISLIKES him.

-Brian

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 05:17 PM

In the latest issue, didn't Swordsman also appear to have some sort of energy power?Looked that way, although I suppose it could've been the suit. If it's Andreas, either it is the suit or he's had some power modification.AND Wolverine both KNOWS him and DISLIKES him.But that could be anybody!

Brian Cronin

01-12-2005, 05:21 PM

But that could be anybody!

Nope.

Only Andreas.

:D

-Brian

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 05:24 PM

Looked that way, although I suppose it could've been the suit. If it's Andreas, either it is the suit or he's had some power modification.

or he's wearing a piece of his sister's skin underneath that get-up. *shudder*

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 05:27 PM

In the latest issue, didn't Swordsman also appear to have some sort of energy power?

AND Wolverine both KNOWS him and DISLIKES him.

-Brian

IT's Mastuo Tsurayaba!!! :eek:

Expletive Deleted

01-12-2005, 05:31 PM

or he's wearing a piece of his sister's skin underneath that get-up. *shudder*Wouldn't he actually be able to fire energy blasts if that were the case, though? I could be mistaken, but I don't recall the Fenris twins being able to channel their energies through other objects. They were more point-and-shoot types.

Catalyst

01-12-2005, 05:37 PM

Wouldn't he actually be able to fire energy blasts if that were the case, though? I could be mistaken, but I don't recall the Fenris twins being able to channel their energies through other objects. They were more point-and-shoot types.

i guess it could be just an energy sword. this new Swordsman seems to know enough about the original to hold him in positive esteem. perhaps he's using a similar sword as well to make up for his lost powers.

Dermie

01-12-2005, 08:33 PM

In the latest issue, didn't Swordsman also appear to have some sort of energy power?

I didn't think so--I assumed it was in the sword. The original Swordsman had a trick sword that shot gas, electricity and force beams.

AND Wolverine both KNOWS him and DISLIKES him.

-Brian

Unfortunately that doesn't really narrow things down, given Wolverine's guest appearances all over the MU. He's been seen disliking hundreds of people. :rolleyes:
But combined with the various other clues, it could be useful.

mattbib

01-12-2005, 09:41 PM

Uhhh....lighten up. Brian's guesses are meant to be lighthearted.

Clearly the new Swordsman is Gilgamesh.

tricksterpup

01-13-2005, 06:16 AM

Uhhh....lighten up. Brian's guesses are meant to be lighthearted.

Clearly the new Swordsman is Gilgamesh.
"Howling Mad" Murdock

Catalyst

01-13-2005, 07:00 AM

Uhhh....lighten up. Brian's guesses are meant to be lighthearted.

Clearly the new Swordsman is Gilgamesh.

just curious but who are you asking to lighten up? and i think i'd take whoever that is Trickster pup keeps spamming the board with over Gilgamesh. :)

Rich L

01-13-2005, 07:10 AM

Hmmm....someone with dichotomy in his upbringing...father issues....agile....

Well it should be obvious! Distressed that his wife has got her own book with nary a mention of him (and she's nekkid most of the time in it to boot!), a certain Lord Plunder has put on armor to get some exposure....

Yep. It's KA-ZAR!

protege

01-13-2005, 07:20 AM

So where's he stashing Zabu?

Expletive Deleted

01-13-2005, 07:22 AM

Okay, so on the off chance that it's not Andreas, I feel compelled to put forth a left-field guess.

Kraven II.

We have to ignore the GET KRAVEN mini, of course.

He's a hunter, but not a fighter at heart (in some depictions). He has serious father issues. He was raised as Russian aristocracy in the jungle. He's agile. He's not a hero.

Granted, I don't think he ever met Wolverine, but you never know.

tricksterpup

01-13-2005, 07:22 AM

just curious but who are you asking to lighten up? and i think i'd take whoever that is Trickster pup keeps spamming the board with over Gilgamesh. :)
Spamming?? I have only done 2 posts declaring its "Howling Mad" Murdock from the A-Team.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/00778367902.3.GIF

Oh damn, now its 3... ;)

Expletive Deleted

01-13-2005, 07:23 AM

So where's he stashing Zabu?Last we saw Ka-Zar (in ALIAS), he'd lost Zabu.

tricksterpup

01-13-2005, 07:27 AM

Last we saw Ka-Zar (in ALIAS), he'd lost Zabu.
WHAT!!???!? is Zabu dead?? or just missing???
Does this give me another reason to hate Bendis??

Rich L

01-13-2005, 07:31 AM

So where's he stashing Zabu?

The Purple Man has a new throw rug...

Expletive Deleted

01-13-2005, 07:33 AM

WHAT!!???!? is Zabu dead?? or just missing???Just missing, more than likely. It was never really followed up on.

Ka-Zar was in ALIAS trying to enlist Daredevil's help in finding him. Matt tried to get Jessica involved, but she declined. It was a pretty funny scene.

pureclint

01-13-2005, 12:39 PM

Well we do know he has a past with Wolverine now...

BlackKnight

01-13-2005, 12:53 PM

Just missing, more than likely. It was never really followed up on.

Ka-Zar was in ALIAS trying to enlist Daredevil's help in finding him. Matt tried to get Jessica involved, but she declined. It was a pretty funny scene.

It must have been a very breif appearance.. I have all the issues and just can't remember it.

Doug W

01-13-2005, 12:54 PM

protege

01-13-2005, 01:00 PM

Just missing, more than likely. It was never really followed up on.

Ka-Zar was in ALIAS trying to enlist Daredevil's help in finding him. Matt tried to get Jessica involved, but she declined. It was a pretty funny scene.
Did he put up fliers? "Missing; one sebertooth tiger." i wonder if zabu eneded up in that guy's apartment- You know, the one who had the tiger?

tricksterpup

01-13-2005, 01:14 PM

Did he put up fliers? "Missing; one sebertooth tiger." i wonder if zabu eneded up in that guy's apartment- You know, the one who had the tiger?
Thanks I just spat water on my monitor due to you. ;)

mastaflan

01-13-2005, 03:30 PM

Shatterstar or Corsair or Agent X or Taskmaster. Purpleman did say he had a super hero lick his boot. Wolverine prolly doesn't like any of those guys cept for maybe corsair. They are all pretty decent with a blade. Or it it really could be just the swordsman we knew and loved.

Expletive Deleted

01-13-2005, 03:50 PM

It must have been a very breif appearance.. I have all the issues and just can't remember it.It was the first part of "Purple."

Catalyst

01-13-2005, 04:25 PM

Andreas Von Strucker is probably the best guess so far and heres yet another reason why:

Pretend your a new reader, not familiar with T-bolts or the MU but you've been reading New Thunderbolts faithfully. You are intensly curious about who the Swordsman is and it is finally revealed to be-

option 1: Andreas Von Strucker, you haven't heard of Andreas Von Stucker but you have seen quite a bit of Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker thus you rightly assume that the Swordsman was Baron Struckers son all along and are surprised and intrigued, as you should be.

option 2: its Nomad or Citizen V or something, who the hell is that? I'm a new reader, I've no idea who that is! Now I'm confused and angry! I'm never gonna read thunderbolts or any marvel comics ever again! and I'm not gonna go see any movies based on marvel characters either!

See? From the point of veiw of a writer trying to reach the broadest audience possible it makes sense to use Andreas instead of some other character.

That said, I have no idea who Anreas Strucker is other that the Barons son, where can I get some info?

there's not too much out there to be honest.

http://www.kevinrewatts.com/archives/2003/03/31/the_strucker_twins.html

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/baronstrucker.htm

http://pc59te.dte.uma.es/cdb/series/marvel/fenris.htm

http://mutanthigh.com/fenris.html

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=453

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Bizzaro2.asp?UniqueId=399

there's a good write up on this page also..
http://www.hostultra.com/~jarvis/terrorists.html

protege

01-13-2005, 04:29 PM

Thanks I just spat water on my monitor due to you. ;)
Hope you didn't short out your monitor- I wasn't sure anybody would remember that story.

streator

01-13-2005, 10:00 PM

who was the original swordsman?
i read the preview online, still not really grabbed...

Dermie

01-13-2005, 10:31 PM

who was the original swordsman?

The original Swordsman was Jacques Duquesne; a former super-villain and mercenary who had a short career as an Avenger before he was killed in the line of duty.

The 2nd Swordsman, Phillip Javert, was a refuge from another timeline that got destroyed. He and his lover Magdalene have left our universe, in search of a new home.

Rich L

01-14-2005, 12:23 AM

The 2nd Swordsman, Phillip Javert, was a refuge from another timeline that got destroyed. He and his lover Magdalene have left our universe, in search of a new home.

Wait. They turned up in Avengers vol 3 #1-3 didn't they? I didn't think they'd left the universe at all, I thought they'd just retired.

Brian Cronin

01-14-2005, 12:30 AM

Wait. They turned up in Avengers vol 3 #1-3 didn't they? I didn't think they'd left the universe at all, I thought they'd just retired.

They left the universe AFTER that story.

-Brian

Cayman

01-14-2005, 03:42 AM

They left the universe AFTER that story.

-Brian

More proof that The New Swordsman is, in fact, Haywire from the Squadron Supreme!

I was too broke to get this book this week, but if Warbird shows up I'm gonna have to scrape some pennies together and pick it up. That is, as long as she isn't comforting Wolverine.

When I am king, Carol Danvers will have her own title and I won't let anybody cancel it.

Cay

Rich L

01-14-2005, 03:45 AM

They left the universe AFTER that story.

-Brian

When? Not being difficult, just curious if they were actually seen to leave or whether it happened off-panel and was simply referred to.

Cayman

01-14-2005, 03:58 AM

When? Not being difficult, just curious if they were actually seen to leave or whether it happened off-panel and was simply referred to.

I know this one! They are shown leaving. It can be seen at the end of the Supreme Justice TPB.

Cay

Rich L

01-14-2005, 04:03 AM

Ah right. I'll have a look at the issues late on (about issue 8 or 9, I guess)

Expletive Deleted

01-14-2005, 04:16 AM

Ah right. I'll have a look at the issues late on (about issue 8 or 9, I guess)Try the AVENGERS/SQUADRON SUPREME '98 annual.

Rich L

01-14-2005, 04:17 AM

Try the AVENGERS/SQUADRON SUPREME '98 annual.

Ahhh...that would explain why it didn't ring a bell...the one Avengers annual from the past fifteen plus years that I'm missing. Typical :rolleyes:

Dermie

01-14-2005, 06:36 AM

More proof that The New Swordsman is, in fact, Haywire from the Squadron Supreme!

Alas, poor Haywire is dead.

I was too broke to get this book this week, but if Warbird shows up I'm gonna have to scrape some pennies together and pick it up. That is, as long as she isn't comforting Wolverine.

She's in it, but there is no comforting of Wolverine. There is no contact between her and Wolverine at all.
And while you're scraping your pennies together, make sure to set some aside for next month as well, since it looks like she'll be in #5 too.

X-Men Forever

01-14-2005, 07:58 AM

Try the AVENGERS/SQUADRON SUPREME '98 annual.

In this annual, all of the Squadron left the Marvel Universe, except for Haywire, he stayed. So the new Swordsman could be Haywire, but he is low on the list of possibilities.

Dermie

01-14-2005, 12:08 PM

In this annual, all of the Squadron left the Marvel Universe, except for Haywire, he stayed. So the new Swordsman could be Haywire, but he is low on the list of possibilities.

Haywire stayed, but he was later killed off...which tends to make me doubt he is the new Swordsman.

X-Men Forever

01-14-2005, 12:53 PM

Haywire stayed, but he was later killed off...which tends to make me doubt he is the new Swordsman.

I do not think it is Haywire either, but I did not rule him out, because I did not know he got killed. In what comic book did he die? Thanks.

protege

01-14-2005, 02:07 PM

At first, i thought that "father and sons" comment in TBolts #4 might lend creedence to the von strucker theory, but now i'm not so sure..

Catalyst

01-14-2005, 08:13 PM

At first, i thought that "father and sons" comment in TBolts #4 might lend creedence to the von strucker theory, but now i'm not so sure..

why aren't you sure? just curious. i don't want it to be Andreas but i see no point in ignoring facts. some of guesses i've seen are just plum crazy when you consider what we do know about the new Swordsman.

1. he is familiar with the first Swordsman.

2. he has some skill with a blade; possible training.

3. Wolverine knows him and never liked him.

4. the swordsman role appealed to the dichotomy of his upbringing.

5. the Erroll Flynn comment. (suggests a somewhat hedonistic personality)

6. knowledge of Baron Strucker's deathspore condition and Zemo himself ("the devil i do know...").

7. originally not a very ambitious character according to the Purple Man.

8. his identity came to Purple Man in a whisper.

anyone care to pair their choice against the above conditions? i guarantee that Nighthawk won't work. neither would Hawkeye, unless you consider Clint someone without ambition or reservations against killing. Nomad wouldn't fit either. bank on it being someone who wouldn't outright confuse new readers; Haywire for instance.

Dermie

01-14-2005, 08:43 PM

I do not think it is Haywire either, but I did not rule him out, because I did not know he got killed. In what comic book did he die? Thanks.

Avengers: Celestial Quest #8.

Dermie

01-14-2005, 08:49 PM

anyone care to pair their choice against the above conditions? i guarantee that Nighthawk won't work. neither would Hawkeye, unless you consider Clint someone without ambition or reservations against killing. Nomad wouldn't fit either. bank on it being someone who wouldn't outright confuse new readers; Haywire for instance.

There are some other clues as well. He "was not a fighter by nature". "Not a hero by any means". That easily rules out Hawkeye, Nighthawk and virtually any other superhero.
Able to recognize Atlantean artifacts at a glance. That narrows things down a bit too.

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 01:07 PM

There are some other clues as well. He "was not a fighter by nature". "Not a hero by any means". That easily rules out Hawkeye, Nighthawk and virtually any other superhero.
Able to recognize Atlantean artifacts at a glance. That narrows things down a bit too.

actually, it being atlantean wasn't the clue i saw. he mentioned seeing the piece at an auction. so he attends auctions/probably has some money at his disposal. imo.

Brian Cronin

01-15-2005, 01:20 PM

actually, it being atlantean wasn't the clue i saw. he mentioned seeing the piece at an auction. so he attends auctions/probably has some money at his disposal. imo.

And wasn't it specifically a GERMAN auction, as well?

-Brian

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 01:28 PM

And wasn't it specifically a GERMAN auction, as well?

-Brian

at least the word he used was german-sounding. ;)

but, y'know, none of these clues have really disqualified my first guess of Zemo. if not for those moonstone gems, he'd be evenly likely. imo. ;)

tangentman

01-15-2005, 03:29 PM

We're 9 pages into this thread and nobody's offered up El Aguila as a suspect? He's a flamboyant swordsman, he's connected w/Purple Man in a "Kevin Bacon" kinda way through Power Man/Iron Fist, and he channels bioelectric blasts through a sword. He's also a small-time hero.

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 04:13 PM

tangentman

01-15-2005, 04:32 PM

Are these statements about the Swordsman all facts, or the Purple Man's opinion? Killgrave isn't the most reliable narrator, given his many delusions about reality.

cosmicspidey

01-15-2005, 04:45 PM

Are these statements about the Swordsman all facts, or the Purple Man's opinion? Killgrave isn't the most reliable narrator, given his many delusions about reality.

Exactly. I think Purple Man thinks he's playing the Swordsman when the Swordsman is actually playing him. Whoever is the Swordsman is pretending to be a nobody and let Putple man control him, so he can check out Purple Man, the Thunderbolts, and Strucker all in one fell swoop. There's gotta be some way to counteract Purple's powers.

Although I think there's a good chance that this new Swordsman might be a nobody. It's certainly not what anyone's expecting. And that could make for an interesting revelation.

There's one question that I think is the key to determining who the Swordsman is. Who can go toe-to-toe with an evil Wolverine (who's by no means holding back) and walk away from the fight?

Dermie

01-15-2005, 04:47 PM

Are these statements about the Swordsman all facts, or the Purple Man's opinion? Killgrave isn't the most reliable narrator, given his many delusions about reality.

I'm fairly certain they are facts--otherwise there is no reason to be including them. Purple Man tends to have blurred lines when it comes to what is real and what isn't...but he generally has his facts straight. He used to be in espionage, after all.

Dermie

01-15-2005, 06:23 PM

actually, it being atlantean wasn't the clue i saw. he mentioned seeing the piece at an auction. so he attends auctions/probably has some money at his disposal. imo.

Yeah, that is a clue too...which goes along with his comment the nice restaurant and ordering a merlot.
But the fact that this guy can recognize Atlantean artificacts that easily is a bit suspicious.

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 06:40 PM

Yeah, that is a clue too...which goes along with his comment the nice restaurant and ordering a merlot.
But the fact that this guy can recognize Atlantean artificacts that easily is a bit suspicious.

Scott Lang recognized ancient Lemurian architecture and writing without ever meeting a lemurian. that info might show up regularly in National Geographic and the Swordsman might have a subscription for all we know. :D

point being, that it being Atlantean might be a red herring for all we know. i'd think the weird thing would be that this Atlantean artifact was being sold at auction in the first place.

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 06:44 PM

Exactly. I think Purple Man thinks he's playing the Swordsman when the Swordsman is actually playing him. Whoever is the Swordsman is pretending to be a nobody and let Putple man control him, so he can check out Purple Man, the Thunderbolts, and Strucker all in one fell swoop. There's gotta be some way to counteract Purple's powers.

Although I think there's a good chance that this new Swordsman might be a nobody. It's certainly not what anyone's expecting. And that could make for an interesting revelation.

There's one question that I think is the key to determining who the Swordsman is. Who can go toe-to-toe with an evil Wolverine (who's by no means holding back) and walk away from the fight?

anyone with an adamantium alloy coated sword and a little skill. but, really, mind-controlled people are usually not at their best and this Swordsman looked like he knew he wouldn't last long against Wolverine, imo. the way to counteract the Purple Man's power is by having an unusually strong will. Dr Doom could do it. Kingpin did it.

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 06:46 PM

Are these statements about the Swordsman all facts, or the Purple Man's opinion? Killgrave isn't the most reliable narrator, given his many delusions about reality.

if it's someone who doesn't fit Purple Man's description, it will have to be explained. i don't think that'd be all that fun for the writer. but who knows? maybe it is El Aguila. *shudder* :D

we'll know for sure once he starts speaking with that forced latin lilt.

Doom Hammer

01-15-2005, 07:08 PM

Catalyst

01-15-2005, 07:13 PM

Based on what has been said about him and his actions, its very obvious that all hopes of the New Swordsman being Hawkeye are dead.

But when was the last time Erroll Flynn was mentioned in comics? By Hawkeye. :D

most likely by Nightcrawler since he's a huge Flynn fan. tell you the truth, it's mostly the fault of the writers. many of them happened to grow up watching the actor's movies sort of how most generation x'ers remember Stallone and Schwarzennegger. but, offhand, Erroll Flynn has also been mentioned fondly by the Beast and the second Ant-Man.

Dermie

01-15-2005, 09:05 PM

Scott Lang recognized ancient Lemurian architecture and writing without ever meeting a lemurian. that info might show up regularly in National Geographic and the Swordsman might have a subscription for all we know. :D

When did he recognize Lemurian architecture? Anyway, Scott has studied the Avengers files and gained info that way (he even apparently learned some basic Kree from the Avengers before he actually joined the team...)

point being, that it being Atlantean might be a red herring for all we know. i'd think the weird thing would be that this Atlantean artifact was being sold at auction in the first place.

Not likely a red herring--not with the rest of the Atlantean involvement in this storyline.
And I don't think it being sold is all that weird either--there have been past stories that have established Atlantean artifiacts being salvaged and sold. Namorita got rather upset about it back in New Warriors.

Catalyst

01-16-2005, 12:25 AM

When did he recognize Lemurian architecture? Anyway, Scott has studied the Avengers files and gained info that way (he even apparently learned some basic Kree from the Avengers before he actually joined the team...)

this was when he was with the Fantastic Four; before the Avengers. issue of Silver Surfer; good-sized story arc in which he, Thing, Silver Surfer, and the Professor Hulk traveled underground to investigate a seismic disturbance. this is when they found Frankie Ray alive and at the center of the earth. so down there was lemurian architecture. Scott's the one who id'd it. his characterization was all over the place in the 90s.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/74638335496.95.GIF

Not likely a red herring--not with the rest of the Atlantean involvement in this storyline.
And I don't think it being sold is all that weird either--there have been past stories that have established Atlantean artifiacts being salvaged and sold. Namorita got rather upset about it back in New Warriors.

i'm just saying that it was cleverly placed there to make you focus on the Atlantean part of it. sure, it ties in with the overall story arc because the Atlanteans are involved but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the identity of the Swordsman. i remember seeing the initial pics of the Swordsman and thinking that he was an Atlantean soldier. i think it's all to throw people off the trail (ex. Andreas Strucker has nothing to do with Atlantis). but that's just me.

Dermie

01-16-2005, 10:47 AM

this was when he was with the Fantastic Four; before the Avengers. issue of Silver Surfer; good-sized story arc in which he, Thing, Silver Surfer, and the Professor Hulk traveled underground to investigate a seismic disturbance. this is when they found Frankie Ray alive and at the center of the earth. so down there was lemurian architecture. Scott's the one who id'd it. his characterization was all over the place in the 90s.

He may have still learned this from Avengers files--as I mentioned before, he apparently learned to speak Kree from Avengers training before he ever joined the Avengers (as you said, things with Scott were all over the place back then).

i'm just saying that it was cleverly placed there to make you focus on the Atlantean part of it. sure, it ties in with the overall story arc because the Atlanteans are involved but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the identity of the Swordsman. i remember seeing the initial pics of the Swordsman and thinking that he was an Atlantean soldier. i think it's all to throw people off the trail (ex. Andreas Strucker has nothing to do with Atlantis). but that's just me.

It might not have anything to do with the Swordsman's ID, but I do find the fact that he was able to recognize Atlantean artifacts at a glance to be unusual. I wouldn't think most people would be able to do that.

FanboyStranger

01-17-2005, 01:57 PM

I'm just going to throw this out here, but I would like to add Clay Quartermain to the list. He was with the Purple Man at the end of the Alias series, is a highly placed SHIELD agent who would be familar with Stucker, Wolverine, and Atlantean artifacts, has never really been a hero, is very fond of weapons (just not of the pointy variety), and has a classic "adventurer" name like Errol Flynn and Conan. This just occured to me because Killgrave keeps referring to the Swordsman as "clay". Perhaps it's just an obvious red herring, though.,

Will.S

01-17-2005, 06:04 PM

Catalyst, I believe, brought him up but could the new Swordsman be Scott Lang? He should by all means be vaporized but I could find enough loopholes to get around that.

I just hope the new Swordsman isn't someone lame. The Nomad as Scourge thing was really anticlimactic (sorry Fabian) and seemed to me like a huge amount of unwarranted buildup for that kind of character.

Dave Cote

01-22-2005, 09:32 AM

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the new Swordsman in Thunderbolts might be Hawkeye? :confused:

Expletive Deleted

01-22-2005, 10:00 AM

Fabian has mentioned on several message fora that the new Swordsman is not Hawkeye.

There's a thread about his possible identity here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=37073).

Dave Cote

01-22-2005, 10:26 AM

Fabian has mentioned on several message fora that the new Swordsman is not Hawkeye.

There's a thread about his possible identity here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=37073).
Thanks I missed that thread.

Catalyst

01-22-2005, 12:52 PM

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the new Swordsman in Thunderbolts might be Hawkeye? :confused:

it's just you. :)

mushroom2703

01-22-2005, 12:56 PM

The swordsman is none other than Nomad, Jack Monroe!!!!

No wait...damn ,that was last series. Not quite possible now anyway...

Jack Ryder

01-22-2005, 01:23 PM

The swordsman is none other than Nomad, Jack Monroe!!!!

No wait...damn ,that was last series. Not quite possible now anyway...

Did I miss something?
Why is it not possible now?
My first thought at looking through the book was Monroe. He was Scourge, This new Swordsman reminds me of him.
After reading the book, I thought Hawkeye.
I haven't read Fabians' denials.
But didn't Swordsman train Hawkeye?
Sort of on the subject, What ever happened to that other dimensional Swordsman who was hanging out with the Avengers during Sterns' run?

Jack Ryder

01-22-2005, 01:26 PM

Given the history of this team, It'll probably be Zemo.

mushroom2703

01-22-2005, 01:31 PM

Given the history of this team, It'll probably be Zemo.

Check your pms in a few mins

And yup, Fabian said on here even, its not hawkeye. I'm really at a loss for who it is. I'm sure it'll be someone cool though!

Dave Cote

01-22-2005, 01:32 PM

I think that perhaps Fabian might be trying some misdirection.It seems like a fit to me. Hawkeye has ties to the orginal Swordsman and Thunderbolts and I assume if the Purpleman is manipulating someone it's probably a hero. It's probably not but I don't think its all that farfetched that it could be.

Dermie

01-22-2005, 02:14 PM

Ivan Isaacs

01-22-2005, 02:28 PM

Purple Man dropped several hints about the identity in #4, and most of those hints rule out Hawkeye.

Yep. He said something "Not a hero by any chance" and that DEFINITELY rules Clint out (and I'm happy because I want Hawkeye to say dead. Dead characters should stay dead).
But Nomad and Zemo (who were also my other guesses) are also heroes (sort of).
That's what I like about the T-Bolts - it's everything that Disassembled wasn't. One is actually excited about the next issue. :)

Catalyst

01-22-2005, 03:34 PM

Yep. He said something "Not a hero by any chance" and that DEFINITELY rules Clint out (and I'm happy because I want Hawkeye to say dead. Dead characters should stay dead).
But Nomad and Zemo (who were also my other guesses) are also heroes (sort of).
That's what I like about the T-Bolts - it's everything that Disassembled wasn't. One is actually excited about the next issue. :)

that's why it's andreas strucker. and anyone who says "dead characters should stay dead," should have all of their favorite characters killed imo.

Dermie

01-22-2005, 11:11 PM

Yep. He said something "Not a hero by any chance" and that DEFINITELY rules Clint out (and I'm happy because I want Hawkeye to say dead. Dead characters should stay dead).
But Nomad and Zemo (who were also my other guesses) are also heroes (sort of).
That's what I like about the T-Bolts - it's everything that Disassembled wasn't. One is actually excited about the next issue. :)

Nomad isn't an option at all--Fabian has said flat out that it is not him and that he has no plans at all for that character in the current series.
As for Zemo, one could argue that he has been a hero--but he didn't exactly go about it in a heroic way. So Zemo likely would fit the "not a hero" description, but there are a few other clues that don't fit him.

Ivan Isaacs

01-23-2005, 01:15 AM

and anyone who says "dead characters should stay dead," should have all of their favorite characters killed imo.

Well, Hawkeye is my favorite Marvel character of all time.

Nomad isn't an option at all--Fabian has said flat out that it is not him and that he has no plans at all for that character in the current series.

Sad. I still want to know what happend to 'lil Bucky. :D

As for Zemo, one could argue that he has been a hero--but he didn't exactly go about it in a heroic way.

He saved Cap's life. That's somewhat heroic for me. Sure, he's still not somebody I would call a hero at heart.

But all this guessing is what makes me so excited for the title and I'm sure that it won't be Daredevil or Scarlet Witch. :D

mushroom2703

01-23-2005, 08:01 AM

Nomad isn't an option at all--Fabian has said flat out that it is not him and that he has no plans at all for that character in the current series.

Lol, sorry guys, my suggestion of Nomad was a joke. Dermie's right, there NO way he'll be showing up in this series, confirmed by Fabian. Just keep reading Capt. America...

Dermie

01-23-2005, 10:51 AM

Sad. I still want to know what happend to 'lil Bucky. :D

Unfortunately, if she was the one infected with HIV...she is very possibly dead by now. But hopefully not.

He saved Cap's life. That's somewhat heroic for me. Sure, he's still not somebody I would call a hero at heart.

Exactly. A person can take a heroic action without actually being a hero at heart. Zemo is still pretty much walking the line--he is becoming more heroic with his intentions...but his methods are still rooted in villainy, and after Avengers/T-Bolts #6, it looks like he may be sliding back in that direction again.

mushroom2703

01-23-2005, 01:27 PM

"Unfortunately, if she was the one infected with HIV...she is very possibly dead by now. But hopefully not. "

Wow, i'd forgotten all about Bucky, i didn't even consider them ever bringing her back. It'd be pretty cool if she made a cameo sometime at least.

Dizzy D

01-30-2005, 10:09 AM

I finally picked up my issues of T-bolts and I want to make a guess as well.

My guess: Paladin, there just is something about Swordsman that reminds me of him.

mastaflan

02-02-2005, 09:44 AM

or maybe that knight with the blacksword in that Annual of Avengers when Every Marvel Book had an Annual with a new Character.

Expletive Deleted

02-02-2005, 10:12 AM

or maybe that knight with the blacksword in that Annual of Avengers when Every Marvel Book had an Annual with a new Character.Last I recall seeing him, he was gigantic and trapped in Slorenia.

Still, I suppose he's a possibility.

Titan Slade

02-02-2005, 10:21 AM

I finally picked up my issues of T-bolts and I want to make a guess as well.

My guess: Paladin, there just is something about Swordsman that reminds me of him.

Paladin is a good guess. The new Swordsman has exibited characteristics similar to palidins. Palidin's powers are, superhuman strength, speed, stamina, and reaction time. Also, his first appearance was in Daredevil #150. In the issue, Palidin was hired by one of the Purple Man's former minions to track him down and kill him. Daredevil was on Purple Man's trail as well. So Paladin has a back history with the Purple Man.

mastaflan

02-15-2005, 10:11 PM

I think it could be unless somebody can tell me where night thrasher has been.

Dermie

02-16-2005, 06:55 AM

I think it could be unless somebody can tell me where night thrasher has been.

Night Thrasher has been back with the New Warriors. He was last seen in She-Hulk #5.

XPac

02-16-2005, 09:09 AM

StoneGold

02-16-2005, 10:41 AM

I'm thinking maybe Deadpool.

Wolvie said he didn't like him, so they at least know each other. Deadpool is sort of a villian and sort of a hero, depending on how you look at it. And the abilities seem to overlap to some degree.
But Wade being in his own book and all would make that kind of difficult. Not to mention, making him the Swordsman would take away everything that makes Wade cool.

XPac

02-16-2005, 10:44 AM

But Wade being in his own book and all would make that kind of difficult. Not to mention, making him the Swordsman would take away everything that makes Wade cool.

Swordsman's cool in his own way. But yeah, if the Swordsman did end up Wade (and you bring up very valid reasons why it would be impractical for it to be him), then he probably would have to ditch the Swordsman persona. Though I do think he could still be on the team while having his own book.

Titan Slade

02-16-2005, 01:19 PM

It's Paladin I tell you. The new Swordsman has the same powers, and Paladin has a back history with the Purple Man.

Brian Cronin

02-16-2005, 03:59 PM

Paladin is a fine guess.

Not as fine as Strucker, but still a fine guess! :)

-Brian

StoneGold

02-17-2005, 10:39 AM

Paladin is a fine guess.

Not as fine as Strucker, but still a fine guess! :)

-Brian
Actually, just because it's not as obvious a guess as Strucker might make it a better guess.

riotgear

04-16-2005, 07:11 PM

Well, I think I've figured out who the new Swordsman is. I believe it to be Night Thrasher.

Dermie

04-16-2005, 07:12 PM

Well, I think I've figured out who the new Swordsman is. I believe it to be Night Thrasher.

Not likely, since Night Thrasher is starring in the upcoming New Warriors miniseries.

Also, he doesn't fit some of the clues.

Doom Hammer

04-16-2005, 07:16 PM

I'm thinking maybe Deadpool.

Wolvie said he didn't like him, so they at least know each other. Deadpool is sort of a villian and sort of a hero, depending on how you look at it. And the abilities seem to overlap to some degree.

"Prussian spigot...drowning me with boredom..."

Heh heh. Nope. Not Wade.

I don't see Wade being able to randomly identify Atlantean artifacts, either.

That and his regular presence as the second half of Cable and... pretty much points to a "no."

But it'd be sorta neat.

riotgear

04-16-2005, 07:25 PM

Not likely, since Night Thrasher is starring in the upcoming New Warriors miniseries.

Also, he doesn't fit some of the clues.

I'm divided as to whether or not it's Dwayne Taylor, or Kyle Richmond. He's hinted as coming from a wealthy background, but is talked about as a streetfighter, never really being a true superhero, and being a dichotomy.

Dermie

04-16-2005, 10:24 PM

I'm divided as to whether or not it's Dwayne Taylor, or Kyle Richmond. He's hinted as coming from a wealthy background, but is talked about as a streetfighter, never really being a true superhero, and being a dichotomy.

Kyle Richmond could maybe work, but Dwayne Taylor is not an option given he is appearing in New Warriors. Kyle would also be a better fit for T-Bolts since he used to work with Speed Demon.
However, Kyle was a true superhero as Nighthawk for a long time, so that would tend to rule him out, wouldn't it?

Brian Cronin

04-17-2005, 02:41 AM

Shellhead

04-17-2005, 12:58 PM

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out who the new Swordsman is, and I just can't come up with a better theory than Brian Cronin's. I wish it was El Aguila, because I always thought that character had potential. Still, there have been some weird clues dropped so far, especially regarding the Atlantean artifact. That made me wonder if it could be Warlord Krang, an Atlantean villain who once fought a duel with Dr. Doom, but he doesn't have any energy manipulation powers. Hmm.

riotgear

04-17-2005, 05:48 PM

No need to be divided, as it is neither....remember, I already figured it out!! ;)

-Brian

Brian, what was your theory? I can't seem to find it.

Dermie

04-17-2005, 11:10 PM

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out who the new Swordsman is, and I just can't come up with a better theory than Brian Cronin's. I wish it was El Aguila, because I always thought that character had potential.

If you want El Aguila, he'll be in the next issue of GLA.

That made me wonder if it could be Warlord Krang, an Atlantean villain who once fought a duel with Dr. Doom, but he doesn't have any energy manipulation powers. Hmm.

There is no proof yet that Swordsman has any energy manipulation powers--that energy burst could have come from the sword. The original Swordsman's sword had energy bursts.

Brian Cronin

04-17-2005, 11:20 PM

Brian, what was your theory? I can't seem to find it.

First post on the thread. :)

-Brian

riotgear

04-18-2005, 04:10 PM

First post on the thread. :)

-Brian

Oh, that one. It almost works. One BIG problem, though. Andreas comes from wealth, and likes to flaunt it. Doesn't have enough knowledge of street-level events. Dwayne Taylor and Kyle Richmond both do. And I have a feeling that the new New Warriors is going to be looked at as out-of-continuity, like the new Power Pack title.

Brian Cronin

04-18-2005, 04:15 PM

Oh, that one. It almost works. One BIG problem, though. Andreas comes from wealth, and likes to flaunt it. Doesn't have enough knowledge of street-level events. Dwayne Taylor and Kyle Richmond both do. And I have a feeling that the new New Warriors is going to be looked at as out-of-continuity, like the new Power Pack title.

Street-level events?

I don't get the reference.

-Brian

tricksterpup

04-18-2005, 04:17 PM

Maybe the new Swordsman is the original Bucky?

Doom Hammer

04-18-2005, 04:31 PM

Oh, that one. It almost works. One BIG problem, though. Andreas comes from wealth, and likes to flaunt it. Doesn't have enough knowledge of street-level events. Dwayne Taylor and Kyle Richmond both do. And I have a feeling that the new New Warriors is going to be looked at as out-of-continuity, like the new Power Pack title.

Big world-destroying Hydra plots to leave major US cities devastated now are recognized as "street-level" events? And manipulations of super-teams? Hmmm...

StoneGold

04-18-2005, 04:59 PM

Maybe the new Swordsman is the original Bucky?
No, Fabes already played that game with Scourge. I don't see him going back to the well on that one a second time. Strucker is by far the most logical guess. It factors in the dialogue with the Baron, he has sword skills, Fabes has an existing history with the character, much like the last time he played this game making Nomad Scourge. In fact, the only reason to think it isn't Andreas is that the clues so obviously point to Andreas, they might be something of a red herring.

Brian Cronin

04-18-2005, 05:05 PM

No, Fabes already played that game with Scourge. I don't see him going back to the well on that one a second time. Strucker is by far the most logical guess. It factors in the dialogue with the Baron, he has sword skills, Fabes has an existing history with the character, much like the last time he played this game making Nomad Scourge. In fact, the only reason to think it isn't Andreas is that the clues so obviously point to Andreas, they might be something of a red herring.

I will admit, a bit of me DOES now think that it soooo looks like Andreas that I almost expect him TO come up with a different character now.

But I will always know in my heart that it was Andreas....hehe. ;)

-Brian

Brian Cronin

04-18-2005, 05:07 PM

And by the by, I think a lot of the clues that it is Andreas come from us reading the stories with Andreas in mind.

If none of us were thinking Andreas, do you think it would be as clear?

-Brian

robschmidt

11-11-2005, 07:41 AM

The new Swordsman is Marcus, son of Kang.

Frank

11-11-2005, 08:05 AM

That`s pretty good. I could see that.

mastaflan

11-13-2005, 12:50 PM

If the new Swordsman was Shatterstar than shatter star all of a sudden became like 100 times cooler...

Sabrinaset

11-13-2005, 02:06 PM

Why not have it be the ORIGINAL Swordsman who died in Giant-Sized Avengers 2?

Alan2099

11-13-2005, 02:31 PM

It's Deadpool! It all fits. Swordsman. Wolverine doesn't like the guy. Not a hero by any means. All that.

Plus the Heroes Reborn Swordsman turned out to be Deadpool.

Dermie

11-13-2005, 03:50 PM

Why not have it be the ORIGINAL Swordsman who died in Giant-Sized Avengers 2?

Doesn't fit a lot of the clues...plus there's the question of how he came back from the dead.

It's Deadpool! It all fits. Swordsman. Wolverine doesn't like the guy. Not a hero by any means. All that.

Plus the Heroes Reborn Swordsman turned out to be Deadpool.

Not possible, given that Deadpool is still running around as himself at the same time Swordsman is off doing his own thing. Several of the clues don't fit him either. And Fabian mentioned once that he's considered using Swordsman as a guest star in CDP at some point.

Brian Cronin

11-13-2005, 03:52 PM

I MIGHT like Marcus, son of Kang, just as an attempt to screw me over. :)

-Brian

Alan2099

11-13-2005, 05:10 PM

Alright. It's not Deadpool then.

Maybe it's Ronin! It's like one of those scenes where the pull the guy's mask off to find out who they are, and there's another mask on underneath!

...or it's Howard the Duck.

StoneGold

11-13-2005, 05:28 PM

I doubt it's Marcus. We just had one younger version of Kang running people through the back with swords, you think they're going to do the exact same thing with Kang again???

Shellhead

11-14-2005, 07:25 AM

I doubt it's Marcus. We just had one younger version of Kang running people through the back with swords, you think they're going to do the exact same thing with Kang again???

It's possible. Look at the way Marvel has handled Radioactive Man or Magneto in recent years.

Shellhead

11-14-2005, 07:35 AM

Why not have it be the ORIGINAL Swordsman who died in Giant-Sized Avengers 2?

That would require a possibly gross explanation. After Swordsman was electrocuted or otherwise killed by energy conducted down his sword from a shot from Kang's pistol, he was apparently dead. Then he was reanimated by a a sentient alien plant (a Cotati), who then married Mantis. While Mantis apparently was a prostitute when she met Swordsman, she had not previously displayed any interest in necrophilia or vegephilia, so maybe this was all an elaborate ruse by Swordsman. I would like to think so, but we've never seen anything to support this possbility until the appearance of this new Swordsman.

Frank

12-22-2005, 03:55 AM

OK I think I know who the new secret Swordsman n Thunderbolts is. It`s...

Swordsman.

From the alternate reality that Sersi and the mad Black Knight destroyed? I was thinking the other day how the Thunderbolts book would be perfect for using a concept like The Gatherers and all the ideas that was used in those Harras-Epting Avengers days. I just thought the Swordsman that stayed on the good side would make a great hero(sort of a less cheezy version of the original). And when I saw the cover in Previews with the new Swordsman fighting Zemo everything "cliqued". I thought that would be a great opportunity to do that.

Any other new theories?

gary

12-22-2005, 06:09 AM

I've only read the first 2 trades but the clues seem to point to the new Swordman being Baron Von Strucker's son (Andreas?) Course, Fabian has been known to plant Red Herrings before but it seems to be where it's heading.

Unbreakable

12-22-2005, 08:52 AM

OK I think I know who the new secret Swordsman n Thunderbolts is.

Any other new theories?

Did you read this month's New Thunderbolts #16? A giant clue is revealed as to who the new Swordsman is in this issue.

riotgear

12-22-2005, 10:04 AM

riotgear

12-22-2005, 10:05 AM

Did you read this month's New Thunderbolts #16? A giant clue is revealed as to who the new Swordsman is in this issue.

What was the clue? I haven't been able to pick it up yet, and won't for a couple of weeks.

Unbreakable

12-22-2005, 10:20 AM

What was the clue? I haven't been able to pick it up yet, and won't for a couple of weeks.

The new Swordsman breaks into a H.Y.D.R.A. facility, and orders the agents that are present to tell him where the transport carrier that just took off was going, and then he ordered them to tell him if his father was on board the carrier.

Keith_Martineau

12-22-2005, 10:50 AM

So Swordsman is Andreas Von Strucker of Fenri fame? Where is his sister?

LoneWolf21

12-22-2005, 12:25 PM

She was killed by Zemo/Citiven V in one of the V-Battalion mini's, I think. Of course another theory I heard is Fabian is pulling a Ronin on us, and it'll be Andrea.

protege

12-22-2005, 01:21 PM

One problem. He and Magdelene went back to the Squadron Supreme's reality with them in the Avengers/Squadron Supreme '98 Annual.
It's too bad we won't be seeing them in Exiles...

Cthulhudrew

12-22-2005, 06:20 PM

One problem. He and Magdelene went back to the Squadron Supreme's reality with them in the Avengers/Squadron Supreme '98 Annual.

Slight correction- they didn't go back to the Supremeverse with the Squadron, but instead used Magdalene's boosted portal powers to go in search of a place where they would fit in (wherever that might end up being). To my knowledge, they've never shown up anywhere again, so they may still be world hopping like the Exiles.

protege

12-22-2005, 06:51 PM

Slight correction- they didn't go back to the Supremeverse with the Squadron, but instead used Magdalene's boosted portal powers to go in search of a place where they would fit in (wherever that might end up being). To my knowledge, they've never shown up anywhere again, so they may still be world hopping like the Exiles.
well, I want Swordsman on the Exiles. Maybe they'll trip over them in their travels.