CBR: Tilting at Windmills - May 20, 2011

[CBR News]

Brian Hibbs is back with a look at how the combination of an economic depression combined with the Big Two publishers' over-production and poor scheduling is slowly strangling the life from the Direct Market.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32417).

[parasite studios]

I'm not a retailer. I'm barely hanging on as a "few comics a month just for the sake of the art" reader.

And this coming from a guy who used to spend an easy 60 a month when the books were a buck a piece. I have also worked in the publishing side of things a while back too. Right when the giant speculation boom started collapsing. So, I've seen it from both sides.

My point? A few of them. Number one is I can see your point on trades. Trade waiting is another way of saying "I'll forget about it and never buy this book again." Honestly. There are many titles I thought I would trade wait for. And you know what trumps trade waiting? Half price or quarter sales at conventions. You can pick up a whole years worth of reading for pennies.

Number two? I would realistically spend $2.99 on comics if they were still exciting. They aren't. The art is (with exceptions) cardboard and boring. The editorial strangle hold is so apparent on mainstream titles you might as well be watching TV. I used to see the X-Men change costumes and locations and all of that so often...and that was FUN. Seeing Cyclops in the same garb for three years is not. Seeing Magneto join the team AGAIN is not. Seeing third string artists draw top line books is NOT.

When is the last time we saw a Lee or a Silvestri? Seriously? You can't tell me they aren't out there. Are Marvel and DC just not paying enough to get new artists away from gaming and what not? Because that's what we need. Fresh. New. Exciting.

Maybe my tastes are a little old school. But NOTHING on the market right now is anywhere close to that. That just AMAZING feeling that Uncanny had during it's heyday.

Just my opinion.

[drinkblatzbeer]

Not really comic related as much, but on the book store front...

i've worked part-time at one for years...and there's always the concern by our customer base that we're gonna close...
this same base comes in and buys a $1 coffee with free refills and sits and reads books, magazines and newspapers for free, never really buying much...
papers and mags, once they've been read by someone are rarely purchased by someone else because they end up being tattered typically after one page through...

then they sit and complain we might close and blame everyone but themselves...

it's their choice and our mistake i guess for letting them, i just wish people understood completely the problem...

[Brian Hibbs]

...there's always the concern by our customer base that we're gonna close...this same base comes in and buys a $1 coffee with free refills and sits and reads books, magazines and newspapers for free, never really buying much...

This makes me think of the people who ask me "Well why don't you have a sofa or chairs in here?"

And I always say "Well, because I'd rather have, y'know, another rack full of product I can sell ya' -- a sofa can't pay the rent!"


-B

[poneley]

Two points-

1. I agree that the stop-start scheduling that the publishers use has to end. It is ridiculous.
2. The trade-waiting game. I get the feeling that both Marvel and DC have this weird "step-child" vibe with their TPB and HCs. What I mean is that both publishers seem to have upped the output on these items but not the promotion. I keep steady track of the TPBs and HCs I want and I pull them when Previews comes out. But I think I'm a rarity for this. Just like Marvel and DC go to CBR and Newsarama to hype their newest monthly book, why can't they hype a worthwhile TPB or HC that'll get released in a few days? Just a thought

But I do agree, trade waiting does make you forget the hype and the motivation to get those books. I vastly prefer trades. I'm completely done with singles. Pump out less material, up the quality and include the promotion.

[David Elliott]

Marvel's output right now reminds me (unfortunately) of the 18/24 months before they first went public. Put anything and everything out that can be put on 32 pages of paper and sling it at the wall. They've even taken to pulling out all the inventory material they've been sitting on for years and slapping that together.

After they went public they nearly collapsed.

[Blade X]

I work at a comic book store and I have to say that I agree with every single thing that Brian has said in this column. The Big 2 are flooding the market with unnecessary books that either (a) don't/won't sell or (b) are redundant (featuring the same over exposed 12 characters or knockoff versions of existing characters).

[Axelca22]

When Iron Man 2.0 was announced I was interested in buying it. When Amazon had the trade for pre-order long before issue #1 was even out I decided I would just trade wait. Then I quickly realized I had a long list of collected editions I wanted to read before Iron Man 2.0. So I concluded I didn't really need to read it at all.

[ghostplanet]

"It kills me, it literally kills me as I watch publisher after publisher, time and time again, walk up to their customers and say to their face, 'Please stop buying my comics!'."

You have literally died time after time? You can make your money back by selling your life rights - because that is *incredible*!

[Kid Kyoto]

This column is always a pleasure to read.

I switched to trades ages ago, when I do pick up the rare single issue it goes right to Goodwill when I'm done. I haven't opened the old long boxes in ages.

Amazon has made trade-waiting a breeze, I might add something to my cart months early and then order it when it comes out, usually after I've seen reviews.

Of course none of this is good for comic shops.

The biggest and best of them like Midtown in NYC I can browse in and find things I never knew existed or wanted to look at before ordering, but most of the ones in my area (Washington DC) are small and unevenly stocked. Anything they have I either don't want or already ordered.

[dfstell]

I'd LOVE Brian's thoughts on this theory I have.

Like everyone else, I used to think that Marvel's behavior was insane: Publishing MORE material into a down market? WTF?

But, what if Marvel decided that (a) the population of customers they could access via the DM couldn't easily be grown, (b) that the DM is dying and will basically cease to exist [With the exception of big stores in large markets] in the next few years and (c) that digital was the only way to really grow the overall number of customers in the market.

I don't think any of those are silly assumptions to make about the system. Sure there are wrinkles to them, but I certainly haven't seen any evidence that those things aren't true.

If Marvel accepted those, what they're doing makes complete sense. Publish more and force the other publishers to keep up if they want to maintain their market share in a fixed or declining market. Marvel already seems to have more fans as evidenced by their ability to be able to publish more books that sell (even at low levels) than DC can. If Marvel adds another marginal book, and it sells 20K copies, they can do that more profitably than Dark Horse can add another marginal book that will sell 5K copies.

Eventually what you'd see is a competitor like Dark Horse reduce staff and the size of their publication line. And, that's pretty much what happened a few weeks ago. So, Marvel fills that void left by a few Dark Horse books with more marginal titles that sell 15K and, again, the other publishers have to keep up.

Of course, as Brian's article points out, this behavior is DEADLY for the DM, but what if Marvel has decided that there isn't anything they can really do to save the DM? And, if Marvel reduced their publishing output to be more DM friendly, DC and other publishers would exploit that vacuum to grow their market share.

Then, when the only DM shops we have left are the big, nationally known LCSs in places like NYC, SF, etc. Marvel can approach digital without worrying about how day/date sales affect the DM....because the DM is dead in most parts of the country.

Sure, this kills the DM, but if this happened, Marvel would enter the digital age with a larger share and would be better positioned to "win" the digital game and they're already ahead of the other publishers in terms of digital strategy: their app is on all the "top app lists", they have more digital apps, they have those regular 99 cent sales, etc.

Again, this is all speculation, but this scenario certainly makes all kinds of business sense to me. I'd love Brian to tell me I'm crazy. :)

[Blade X]

Marvel's output right now reminds me (unfortunately) of the 18/24 months before they first went public. Put anything and everything out that can be put on 32 pages of paper and sling it at the wall. They've even taken to pulling out all the inventory material they've been sitting on for years and slapping that together.

After they went public they nearly collapsed.

This is just a theory (as well as a bit of "mind reading") on my part, but I think that a possible reason why Marvel has increased the number of books that they publish is because they are trying to keep the Mouse out of the House. In other words, Marvel (the publishing division) is trying to keep their profits high enough by putting out as much product as possible with both a higher and lower price point in order to keep Disney (a) happy (b) from taking a closer look at and sticking their noses into the publishing division and/or (c) shutting down the publishing division.

[poneley]

I don't think Marvel is actually trying to flood the market in order to bust their competitors. I don't think its naive or incorrect to say that Marvel knows the more diverse the market is, the larger the customer base will be and that means more potential customers for Marvel. So I don't think Marvel wants to bust other publishers who fill in the genres and niches that Marvel ignores or is not able to compete in.

Besides all the "bluster" that Marvel puts out about being better then DC, at the end of the day the industry is one big neighborhood in my opinion, and you actually don't want to see your neighbors lose their home due to a foreclosure.

Its clear Marvel is trying to sell as much product as possible and they think they're doing it the right way. I get that they are trying to catch any potential movie customers with all of their Cap and Thor material but why not just reprint some really good old material instead of flooding the market with new stuff that may not be that good. There's plenty of old material that even hardcore readers haven't picked up.

[poneley]

This is just a theory (as well as a bit of "mind reading") on my part, but I think that a possible reason why Marvel has increased the number of books that they publish is because they are trying to keep the Mouse out of the House. In other words, Marvel (the publishing division) is trying to keep their profits high enough by putting out as much product as possible with both a higher and lower price point in order to keep Disney (a) happy (b) from taking a closer look at and sticking their noses into the publishing division and/or (c) shutting down the publishing division.

That's a possibility but I think Marvel and Disney know that publishing is just peanuts at the end of the day. Its all about licensing. And unless Marvel publishing is losing a ton of money, they'll get ignored. Marvel just needs to keep the brands alive and produce material that can later be adapted to other more profitable formats.

[Blade X]

When Iron Man 2.0 was announced I was interested in buying it. When Amazon had the trade for pre-order long before issue #1 was even out I decided I would just trade wait. Then I quickly realized I had a long list of collected editions I wanted to read before Iron Man 2.0. So I concluded I didn't really need to read it at all.

IRON MAN 2.0 is a perfect example of an unnecessary spinoff book featuring a redundant/knockoff character that can't sustain and/or support his own solo comic. Not to mention the fact that the book sucks and is boring as hell.

[matthh]

This is where digital can legitimately come to the rescue. If you don't have to hold an inventory of weekly comics, you just let your customers choose what they want to buy, and you make the same margin to sell them that you do on print, then you'd be in much better shape right?

Comixology's solution (as opposed to Diamond's which still required physical books to be purchased) is the step in the right direction we've been waiting for. You can sell and get paid without ever having to take a risk on holding inventory on those books.

I haven't seen the economics yet, and I know there is open question about handling sales in the App Store vs. sales on a DM's Comixology site directly. But I think it is vital that retailers try and band together to force the right solution onto the marketplace. I'm rooting for you.

[Comcman]

Another great column, Brian.

Up until last month, I ordered every HC and GN than Marvel solicited. Last month, the Tomb of Dracula: Birth of Vampire one-shot came out with different art and story than was solicited. I'm sure at some point in a line in an email they announced that, but every person that asked me to hold it for them based on the original cover image decided to pass when it came out.

So to punish Marvel for that switcheroo, I decided to cut the amount I was out on those books that will never sell from my monthly order, which was due the next day. I got a little out of hand and actually cut over $400 just in graphic novels from my Marvel order. It felt really liberating. And now I realize that I don't have to order one of everything they publish. I doubt that was their plan.

I also like the TV show analogy. CBS wouldn't schedule all of their CSIs on one night. If someone didn't like CSI, they would skip their channel for the night. Why would Marvel ship all of their Avengers books one week (or DC shipping all 3 Green Lantern books next week)? Give people variety and a reason to come in every week. It really seems like they aren't even paying attention any longer. That's where its scary for me. If the publishers don't care when their stuff ships, what chance do we have?

[Kid Kyoto]

A question for Brian, what collections do you find are evergreens and which are one-offs that will only sell the week they come out?

I would expect that things like the Showcases and Essentials and Archives sell regularly (as long as they're about a major character) while anything collecting the monthly book is a one-off.

[Brian Hibbs]

I'd LOVE Brian's thoughts on this theory I have.

It is crazy and wrong.

(IMO!)

Why? Because it assumes two things that I doubt are true: that over-saturation in one segment of the market (Marvel superhero comics) automatically leads to less support of items outside that segment (you weren't specific, but let's say Movie adaptations from Dark Horse). That is not, at least in my experience, how things actually work.

The closest you could get is that said over-saturation can cause readers to leave THE HOBBY ITSELF, but then, by your theory, Marvel would suffer disproportionately.

The second reason it is, IMO, nuts is that it assumes that market share in the print space has ANY relationship to market share in a digital space. I see no evidence to think this is so.

Further, if you chase away the print readers that makes it HARDER to get them to buy digitally, doesn't it?

-B

[Brian Hibbs]

This is where digital can legitimately come to the rescue. If you don't have to hold an inventory of weekly comics, you just let your customers choose what they want to buy, and you make the same margin to sell them that you do on print, then you'd be in much better shape right?

I don't believe that readers are going to physically come into stores for digital items, nor that all but a very few will buy from "the local comics shop" website rather than directly from a publisher or an aggregator like comixology.

Also: the margins AREN'T the same :)

-B

[Brian Hibbs]

A question for Brian, what collections do you find are evergreens and which are one-offs that will only sell the week they come out?

I would expect that things like the Showcases and Essentials and Archives sell regularly (as long as they're about a major character) while anything collecting the monthly book is a one-off.

That's (really!) too broad of a question as stated to even begin to answer it.

There really aren't a lot of firm rules: WALKING DEAD is one of my most successful monthly periodicals, and ALSO incredibly crazily successful as a TP. I sell slightly more copies of AVENGERS as I do WD as a periodical, but I can barely give away copies of the collections.

Showcases and Essentials CAN turn OK, but a LOT of people are turned off by the B&W. I dropped MMW and Archives from stock 5+ years ago because they sold so slowly, they became an anchor on the backlist -- Amazon hasn't gutted GENERAL trade sales for us, but they sure have gutted $50+ books...

-B

[dfstell]

I don't think Marvel is actually trying to flood the market in order to bust their competitors. I don't think its naive or incorrect to say that Marvel knows the more diverse the market is, the larger the customer base will be and that means more potential customers for Marvel. So I don't think Marvel wants to bust other publishers who fill in the genres and niches that Marvel ignores or is not able to compete in.

Besides all the "bluster" that Marvel puts out about being better then DC, at the end of the day the industry is one big neighborhood in my opinion, and you actually don't want to see your neighbors lose their home due to a foreclosure..

Yeah....but.... If Marvel accepts that the DM is dying, that means that life is going to get extremely ugly in the short term because digital isn't nearly ready to take over if/when the DM crashes.

But, if the comics industry is headed into a bloodbath, Marvel would be smart to enter that on their terms and in the strongest possible position compared to their competition because they should then be in a better position to grow in the digital age.

Also...once the DM crashes and the only LCSs are big successful ones like Midtown and there are no LCSs in large parts of the country, then Marvel doesn't have to worry about offending the DM with day-date releases and whatever price they want. At that point they can say, "Hey guys, we stuck with you for as long as we could, but currently 75% of our customers do not live within 30 miles of a LCS and we've gotta sell product. We have no choice but to do day-date releases."

Just saying.... That's what I'd do if I were them and were faced with this scenario.

[QCCBob]

The problem is easy to identify. Marvel and DC (and Diamond, as well) believe that comics are DOOMED and because of that, they look for the next great hope. Where things get sticky is why sales drop and the lack of personal responsibility for their share in that drop. Bad books don't sell as TPBs either nor will they sell as downloads. There clearly appears to be no real consideration of sales figures beyond a set level and that's a huge problem.

Take a book like X-Men Legacy... The loss of over 50% in sales since Carey took over is apparently meaningless to Marvel as long as the sales don't drop below 25K. As a retailer watching a book go from sales around 100 to sales around 23, I can safely state there is a SERIOUS problem with the book. Yet, Marvel doesn't care, they just put out another X-Men book. Unfortunately, that one sells around 27, so then they bring back Astonishing which is hitting around 15. While I'm looking at three titles that don't equal the old one, Marvel is picking up production costs on three books to make what one did??? How can this make sense and how can they keep doing it?

And don't even get me started on the flood of titles... Why these dimwits are so invested in winning market share that they can play Russian Roulette with the industry still amazes me...

[QCCBob]

But I think it is vital that retailers try and band together to force the right solution onto the marketplace. I'm rooting for you.

What a fascinating viewpoint. We should band together and force people to buy digital downloads because according to you, it's the 'right solution'.

#1) If it's the right solution, wouldn't people figure it out without force?

#2) If the content doesn't change, exactly in the same manner that TPBs were the 'right solution' and failed miserably, downloads won't save the day either.

#3) It remains to me to be the biggest joke ever that we live in a world where Amazon and Ebay have almost destroyed the DM because people don't have to leave the comfort of their home to get comics and TPBs, yet people think that selling downloads from a store that you take home will save the day.

[DownInAHole]

Slightly off topic but I would be interested to know what retailers think of the recent phenomenon of double shipping titles. I believe it was in January that Marvel were proud to announce that they listened to readers and retailers and would be publishing fewer titles per month but at the same time many titles (I would guess between 1/4 and 1/3 of the superhero line) are now shipping two issues per month. For retailers is this good, bad or no different than a single issue shipping per month? As a customer I don't like it as it forces me to cut back in order to afford the books I really want. I've already dropped Thor and Iron Man and with Amazing Spider-Man becoming a $3.99/22 story page book it will be dropped starting in August. I don't understand the logic. They can publish ten issues of one title in a month but that doesn't mean that consumers have the money to buy that many issues. Cuts need to be made in order to pay for those extra issues, aren't they only hurting themselves?

[Brian Hibbs]

Bad books don't sell as TPBs either nor will they sell as downloads.

Several people in this industry need this tattooed on their hand or something.


Take a book like X-Men Legacy... The loss of over 50% in sales since Carey took over

I don't think it's Carey -- I think it is the TITLE. "Legacy" sounds like a reprint/flashback/non-continuity title.

The "problem" with the new adjective-less-X-Men title was they started with a story about stupid fucking vampires -- what does that have to do with the X-Men?

The "problem" with Astonishing is the only reason it existed in the first place was to be WHEDON'S book. Replacing him with Ellis is one thing, but after that there's only 4 or 5 other writers that sell on the basis of their name alone. Marvel constantly mistakes "writer starting to get a buzz" for "writer therefore sells comics automatically, irrespective of the specific characters/content"


While I'm looking at three titles that don't equal the old one, Marvel is picking up production costs on three books to make what one did??? How can this make sense and how can they keep doing it?

That question has been asked since at least 1976 and the launch of SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. Production costs of 2x, final sales of 1.7x (or whatever), x=AMAZING SPIDER-MAN sales; and it has only gotten more lopsided in the last 35 years.

-B

[Fuzman]

This reminds me of an article with Quesada many, many, moons ago where he was talking about Spider-man comics. And how there were like 5 or 6 monthly Spidey titles and one thing he planned to do was scale that back because of, well everything listed in the article. And then they actually did that. It lasted, a year? Maybe more, maybe less. So it seems to me that they tried publishing less crap and from a business end, it just didn't work.

I still don't see why they don't advertise in areas that aren't just comic book related. Even if it's too much, you can't tell me that a combined marvel/dc/other comapny ad initiative just to "read comics" wouldn't help the industry.

[matthh]

Hey Bob. I should have said 'advocate' for the solution and the folks I mean to advocate with are the publishers, not the consumers.

Some quick context: I love digital comics because a few years ago my wife asked me to move my 4 longboxes from the living room to storage in the garage. Once they were more inaccessible, I decided to move to trades. I used to love coming in to Experience or Isotope and buying hardcovers. I paid the extra 20-40% my local store charged (vs. Amazon) because I *VALUED* the service they provide by being my local shop. However, eventually my bookshelves filled up. So, now I buy digital comics so I don't have to worry about storing/accessing them, and I get to read titles on a monthly basis. Now, back to the key issue...

For you to say 'people don't have to leave the comfort of their home' or for Brian to say that he doesn't believe 'readers are going to physically come into stores for digital items' misses the point entirely. People like me *WANT* to go to the local comic shop every week, talk to the owners/other patrons, look around the store, and buy comics from them, we just want them in digital format instead of paper. It is that simple.

As it is, I am now in a self-imposed exile, where I can't go to my local comic shop. I refuse to walk around, enjoy all of the curated content presentation, good discussion, and great atmosphere, only to go to Comixology to buy the books. So, I feel like I can't go. AND IT BUMS ME OUT! But I'm not buying any more paper, so I'm trying to figure out how to buy the comics I want (in the form factor I want) from my local store.

Brian: I'm a little confused when you say 'rather than directly from a publisher or an aggregator like comixology' and that 'the margins AREN'T the same.' The main vendor I would think you'd use is Comixology, via their new digital storefront for DMs. Have they presented you with the margins? If they're only covering web-based purchases, that removes the 30% overhead to Apple, which could be used to pay DMs. Are things far enough along that you're having these kind of discussions? Are they even in the ballpark? How do you balance the upside of being able to sell any comics without having to carry inventory vs. a lower margin?

My fear is that they're way off. But I'm ready to stand up for our local shops. I want to band retailers/readers together to advocate for DM's fair share!


What a fascinating viewpoint. We should band together and force people to buy digital downloads because according to you, it's the 'right solution'.

#1) If it's the right solution, wouldn't people figure it out without force?

#2) If the content doesn't change, exactly in the same manner that TPBs were the 'right solution' and failed miserably, downloads won't save the day either.

#3) It remains to me to be the biggest joke ever that we live in a world where Amazon and Ebay have almost destroyed the DM because people don't have to leave the comfort of their home to get comics and TPBs, yet people think that selling downloads from a store that you take home will save the day.

[dfstell]

It is crazy and wrong.

(IMO!)

Why? Because it assumes two things that I doubt are true: that over-saturation in one segment of the market (Marvel superhero comics) automatically leads to less support of items outside that segment (you weren't specific, but let's say Movie adaptations from Dark Horse). That is not, at least in my experience, how things actually work.

The closest you could get is that said over-saturation can cause readers to leave THE HOBBY ITSELF, but then, by your theory, Marvel would suffer disproportionately.

The second reason it is, IMO, nuts is that it assumes that market share in the print space has ANY relationship to market share in a digital space. I see no evidence to think this is so.

Further, if you chase away the print readers that makes it HARDER to get them to buy digitally, doesn't it?

-B

Good point on the trade off between the marginal Marvel superhero title and something like a True Blood comic from IDW. You'd know better than I what retailers order, but I can accept that adding a title like Silver Surfer probably doesn't mean dropping True Blood for a retailer.

On the other point.....I'm mostly saying is that if the readers are leaving anyway in the DM and if Marvel has decided that there is no kind of product they can offer that would be anything other than a short term fix....then they might as well weaken the competition on the way down. If all the other publishers have to lay off 25% of their home office and editorial staff whereas Marvel gets to stay intact, they'll have a better chance to rule the digital world too. That isn't to say they will rule the digital world, but it would make it less likely that the other guys will.

My analogy is that if the Titanic is sinking, you could run around and stab a bunch of the other people so that they aren't trying to compete for places in the lifeboats.

[tonedeafgeoff]

I am a fellow retailer, in business in the LA area for over 30 years. And I have noticed more and more that we'll have one bill on the low side and then one week where every Green Lantern book, most of the Avengers come out, a few Batman books, etc. And the bill that week will literally be twice the bill for the week before. But the question is what can we do about it? How can we make Marvel/DC listen to us?

I don't feel that the trade paperbacks is as big a problem because it is very easy for me to just not order the new HC version of Fantastic Four book nobody asked for. If a customer wants it, I will gladly order it for them and make good profit. But I do find myself ordering less and less from the trade pages of the Diamond Previews.

The other problem that I feel really leads to bad trade sales is the lack of numbering on many Marvel and DC titles. If I have a customer that wants to catch up on Green Lantern via trades, they have to literally look at the back of every book to see what issues are in it, whereas with Walking Dead, every single trade is numbered, so if someone has bought the first 3 books, it is very easy for them to come in and buy book 4. I sell maybe 3 times as many Green Lantern single issues as Walking Dead. But when it comes to trades I sell 10 times as many Walking Dead trades. I'm sure some of this has to do with the clientele that enjoys Walking Dead likes the trade format better, but it would be naive to say it has nothing to do with an easy organization system. Also, take a wild guess at which trades I never run out of because it takes 30 seconds to do inventory, whereas with the other one I have to check it out of chronological order, usually in alphabetical, which mixes Neal Adams books with Geoff Johns books. So my question again, is how do we get Marvel and DC to listen?

-Geoff

[Brian Hibbs]

For you to say 'people don't have to leave the comfort of their home' or for Brian to say that he doesn't believe 'readers are going to physically come into stores for digital items' misses the point entirely. People like me *WANT* to go to the local comic shop every week, talk to the owners/other patrons, look around the store, and buy comics from them, we just want them in digital format instead of paper. It is that simple.

Well, that's just awesome.

I guess I'd bottom line it that I'm not convinced there are ENOUGH people like you.

I'm not even convinced you're not solely unique.

Since you indicated you're a local boy -- pop in one afternoon, and let's chat about it face-to-face. Don't worry, I won't expect you to buy anything :)

-B

[mathew101281]

The other problem that I feel really leads to bad trade sales is the lack of numbering on many Marvel and DC titles. If I have a customer that wants to catch up on Green Lantern via trades, they have to literally look at the back of every book to see what issues are in it, whereas with Walking Dead, every single trade is numbered, so if someone has bought the first 3 books, it is very easy for them to come in and buy book 4. I sell maybe 3 times as many Green Lantern single issues as Walking Dead. But when it comes to trades I sell 10 times as many Walking Dead trades. I'm sure some of this has to do with the clientele that enjoys Walking Dead likes the trade format better, but it would be naive to say it has nothing to do with an easy organization system. Also, take a wild guess at which trades I never run out of because it takes 30 seconds to do inventory, whereas with the other one I have to check it out of chronological order, usually in alphabetical, which mixes Neal Adams books with Geoff Johns books. So my question again, is how do we get Marvel and DC to listen?

-Geoff

I know right, thats one think I like about Manga it's numbered so you know which book to buy first.

[usroycow]

I have been a dedicated reader of comics for almost 25 years. Marvel lost me in the 90's and I held on to Batman at DC until last year. With the death of Bruce Wayne and no end in sight of Event-o-Rama, I just said "screw it" and went cold turkey. I now buy the same amount of books all from Dark Horse (Yayy Hellboy!!!), Vertigo (yes I know its DC, but its not Universe books) and many independent publishers. I do rely on trades and I do buy them from Amazon and EBAY. I visit local comic stores when I travel to shoot the breeze and see whats new. Quality gets my money every time. DC and Marvel would have my money still if they had a tight assortment of killer books. Eventually the marketing strategy will implode from the sheer volume of crap that nobody will pay money for anymore.

I can't see how new readers are going to be attracted by content light, continuity heavy dreck.

[rbjeter]

I agree with all of you. I am a long time comic fan and there was a time when I would spend between $100-$150 a month on comics with a pull list of 30 comics. Now my pull list is down to 4 titles. My reasons are pretty much the same as yours. $4 for a single issue is a lot of money for cookie-cutter plots that are repeated every few years. I do not mind paying $4 for an issue, but it better be good. That is how my pull list fell so far.

In the past few years the price of many single issues has doubled. When comics crept up for $1.99 to $2.25 then $2.50 that wasn't an issue. When they jumped to $2.99 that was noticed and a few of my pull list comics were dropped. When the jump came to $3.99 I made a lot of cuts because then my pull list got to be expensive and it is just not worth it.

I think the solution to the problem is that less is more. The Big 2 really need to do three things:
1. Cut down their titles. Cutting titles will make it easier to manage. Do you really need 20 Batman titles each month? With only a couple of Batman comics, Batman fans will get Batman and Detective. They won't decide between Batman, Detective, The Dark Knight, and all the other Bat-family books.

2. Change the editorial policies. Changing the attitudes of the editorial staff to allow more artistic freedom in the books. Let's allow for writers to have done-in-one stories and stories that span for twenty issues. Let the story tell itself. I am tired of stories that last 6 issues so it can be a trade paperback. This results in filler issues or truncated stories. For me, the joy of comics in addition to the characters is that it is an on-going story. Let the creators tell a good story and let that sell the comics. That way I won't drop a title because I have buy all the other comics that the story is crossing-over into. Most of my friends do not start reading Gotham City Sirens because the Batman story is continuing in that issue that month.

3. Stop major ground changing/continuity shifting events from happening every year. This is why I stopped reading most of my pull list. The stories are broken up and delayed because of tie-in issues to major events. Changing continuity every few years and having major events every year has gotten old. Why bother reading the major shake up when it is just going to be switched in a couple of months because the major event that is 6 issues long was delayed a few months, so the next summer event starts in just a couple of issues.

[Blade X]

I don't think it's Carey -- I think it is the TITLE. "Legacy" sounds like a reprint/flashback/non-continuity title.

I think that it has more to do with the direction of the book (which may or may not be Carey's fault) than the title of the book. I find it both strange and messed up that Marvel quickly fired Claremont during his 2nd and 3rd runs on the 2 core X-Men books due to low sales, but they continue to keep Carey on the books even though sales of XML have dropped lower than either of Claremont's previous 2 runs on the core titles.




The "problem" with the new adjective-less-X-Men title was they started with a story about stupid fucking vampires -- what does that have to do with the X-Men?

That, and the fact that there are just way too many X-titles for the current market to support. The X-Men are no longer as popular as they used to be due to (IMO) dumb/stupid/bad stories/creative decisions made with the franchise and characters over the last decade.



The "problem" with Astonishing is the only reason it existed in the first place was to be WHEDON'S book. Replacing him with Ellis is one thing, but after that there's only 4 or 5 other writers that sell on the basis of their name alone. Marvel constantly mistakes "writer starting to get a buzz" for "writer therefore sells comics automatically, irrespective of the specific characters/content"

-B

I agree. Hell, I'll even go so far as to say that even the more popular writers like Bendis,Ellis,and Millar are no t guaranteed to sell a comic based on their name alone. I said it before, and I'll say it again, Marvel (and DC) needs to spend less time selling and promoting/marketing the creators and spend more time on selling and promoting/marketing the characters and concepts within the comics regardless of who the creative team is and regardless of how popular/unpopular or known/well known they are. I mean seriously, no one cares or know who Nick Spencer is or how critically acclaime his low selling books are.

[QCCBob]

Quick shots-

Brian - The title change would explain the initial drop to be certain, but the continuing and now near total collapse took place over time. There's been only one constant on X-Men Legacy since that title change.

As to TPBs, it's funny how the numbered volumes that come out consistently seem to weaken monthly sales, but the haphazard ones don't as much. TPBs have done a great deal of damage to the monthlies, both due to the idiotic write for a TPB mandate and ease of access.

As to the reasons why things are what they are, you can look at almost any non-zombie post and see people say the same things over and over BUT the publishers up in their ivory towers don't get the message. Go figure. I will argue that the incentive stunts mask the problems in some cases since there are so many stunts that force/bribe retailers to over-order and, as I love to point out, publishers don't sell to consumers, they sell to shops. Selling out at Diamond does not mean every shop in the world sold through. One of the most damaging things that happened to the DM was when Marvel (especially, but not exclusively) simply decided to sell to us (retailers) not you.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I'm 36, got back into comics about 5 years ago and naturally got all the stuff I loved as a kid. Sure enough titles like Captain America and Immortal Iron Fist grasped my attention enough for me to seek out more good stuff. I went from buying anything I wanted, which was quite a lot, to where I'm at now which is a handful of titles only one of which is Marvel (Sorry there's just something about Way's Deadpool I just can't give it up). I guess my point is that once I became savvy to the gimmicks I rebelled against the Top 2 and it was easy cuz the other shit was waaaay better anyway! They keep saying comics aren't for kids but adults are way fussier when it comes to shelling out money so I would recommend less gimmick, more substance and if not that they may as well pay less for their talent and actually cater to kids.

As a side note I've seen Walking Dead tpb's mentioned a few times as selling well and I know why. It's cuz people like me buy every issue then buy trades for re-reading purposes then buy them again as gifts for friends and it's all cuz it's so damn good. No way in hell do I do that for Super Secret Skrull Avengers #3.14!

[Blade X]

Quick shots-

Brian - The title change would explain the initial drop to be certain, but the continuing and now near total collapse took place over time. There's been only one constant on X-Men Legacy since that title change.

Hey Bob, here's Brevoort's BS response to a fan on twitter about XML.


"her friends are the X-Men, I think it's legitimate that they star in X-MEN LEGACY." The book was solo Xavier for at least a dozen issues, maintained the title. Not trying to attack you, just saying that something like a title change can garner exposure.

X-MEN LEGACy is one of our best-selling titles; why would I want to change the title in an attempt to get more exposure/ That'd be more likely to lead to weaker sales.

[kozmo]

There's an even bigger issue when it comes to trade publishing: they publish seemingly anything and everything, but don't act like a real publisher when something actually takes.

I ignored the new Batgirl series at first, as I haven't been interested in the Bat-shenanigans out of that editorial office in a while now. But I was reading good reviews, and I always liked Stephanie as a character, so I decided I would try the first trade paperback, with the idea that if I liked it, I would add it to my pull list.

But the first Batgirl TPB has been out of print and unavailable, apparently from just a few weeks after it first came out. So apparently DC has a trade paperback that was released just because, and it actually sold quite well - sold out in fact. So do they go back to press? No - it just stays unavailable. They've since solicited the second trade - I figured that would be a logical time to announce a new printing, if they felt it had to be done through the DM for some reason. But nope. It's still unavailable.

A very wise person once told me: "Don't look for conspiracy when it's most likely just incompetence driving the bus." The Big Two simply don't know how to function as real publishers, and haven't for a while.

[QCCBob]

Hey Bob, here's Brevoort's BS response to a fan on twitter about XML.

But that's where the whole problem is, isn't it? The book IS one of the better selling titles in a sea of crappy selling books that USED to sell much better and not that long ago either. Marvel's inept editorial staff doesn't think they have ANYTHING to do with sales dropping. It's pretty sad.

[briest57]

Have to say I agree with most of the posts here. Here's my view as a consumer.

I pretty gave up with buying comics in the 90's due to zero hour reboot so soon after COIE, rising prices and low quality books. I recently started buying last year but now I'm ready to stop again. This what I feels wrong :-

1. Price, you used to be able to buy a comic for the price of MacDonalds hamburger now there the price of a meal. I bought Spiderman for the first time ever with Big Time now I'm dropping it because I'm not going to pay $4 3 times a month for a 22 page book.

2. Availabilty. 2 months ago for the first time ever I set up a standing order because I kept missing issues. I have a job which mean I can only go shopping on a weekend but with comics being released on Wednesday and retailers ordering so little I often missed issues. How do retailers expect to get new readers if they have no product on the shelves? I wonder how many new readers actually managed to buy a copy of the death issue of FF4. I shop in London(with lots of stores), every reatiler had sold out on the Saturday I went after it came out. As a regular reader this p***ed me off and almost stopped buying it.

3. Reboots. I thought I had missed all those but no it looks like DC are having another one this most probably will be another jumping off point for me.
Don't mind it once in a generation but every few years!!

4. New reader friendliness. I think I'm fairly intelligent but some books I bought were totally impossible to follow unless you had read previous issues or other books. At least Marvel has a one page re-cap but DC books just don't seem to care. I recently read some of my old comics and they were easy to follow reprising previous events through the storytelling and editor boxes.

5. Crossovers. I like crossovers but some crossovers seem to make you have to buy every book to understand whats going on and there ar too many. I bought the Blackest night collection, this seemed to be missing pages. It was only after reading other collections it mad sense. Likewise daredevil and shadowland. It was only after buying the other collections that it made sense. Last year I bought around 20 titles with all the crossovers and double shipping my I bought 60 titles last month. Enoughs enough and I'm thinking of dropping most of the books I buy it's getting just too damm expensive. The trouble with not buying the titles with crossovers is that the become very hard to follow when the crossover ends.

6. Title changes. I started reading daredevil, 4 issues later its Black Panther!! I wanted to read Daredevil not Blank Panther, oh course I stopped buying this and I wont be reading the relaunched one when it comes out.

7. Variant covers/too many similar titles. I pity the the new reader who's never entered a comic book before. They face with a bewildering choice of titles. I seem to remember reading somewhere consumers don't buy anything when faced with too much choice.
For example if you want to buy Batman what book do you buy? If you want to start collecting Marvel whats the difference between 616 or Ultimate and don't get me started on Variant covers.(I almost bought the same book twice and I was aware of them).

8. TPB notice how Marvel as well as upping the price have dropped the number of issue included and in some cases are now bundling old issues I have no interest in (UXF guily as charged). I'm probably going to give up buying these as well.

[briest57]

There's an even bigger issue when it comes to trade publishing: they publish seemingly anything and everything, but don't act like a real publisher when something actually takes.

I ignored the new Batgirl series at first, as I haven't been interested in the Bat-shenanigans out of that editorial office in a while now. But I was reading good reviews, and I always liked Stephanie as a character, so I decided I would try the first trade paperback, with the idea that if I liked it, I would add it to my pull list.

But the first Batgirl TPB has been out of print and unavailable, apparently from just a few weeks after it first came out. So apparently DC has a trade paperback that was released just because, and it actually sold quite well - sold out in fact. So do they go back to press? No - it just stays unavailable. They've since solicited the second trade -.

I find this bizzare was the first one so bad selling. I jumped on around issue 16. I would love to buy the TPB as I can't find back issues. No problem getting the likes of Booster gold, supergirl etc.

Also strange is why they don't publish any of the Alan Grant era Batman.

[matthh]

See, this is what I don't get at all. Why are you surprised that people would still want to go to a comic shop to buy (digital) comics? The comic shop is where I can find out the latest comics coming out every week and talk about what's good, etc. Retail/in person is always going to be a better browsing experience than online. So give me that retail experience but with the comics in digital form.

Anyway, I'll pop in again soon...


Well, that's just awesome.

I guess I'd bottom line it that I'm not convinced there are ENOUGH people like you.

I'm not even convinced you're not solely unique.

Since you indicated you're a local boy -- pop in one afternoon, and let's chat about it face-to-face. Don't worry, I won't expect you to buy anything :)

-B

[Handsome One]

But that's where the whole problem is, isn't it? The book IS one of the better selling titles in a sea of crappy selling books that USED to sell much better and not that long ago either. Marvel's inept editorial staff doesn't think they have ANYTHING to do with sales dropping. It's pretty sad.

The problem with the X-books is indeed the editorial staff. Let me just say that X-men: Legacy is one of my favorite titles BECAUSE of Mike Carey, but (up until recently) it's been in a strangelhold by fiat. When Carey took over X-men, there was no flagship title. Whedon's Astonishing was high-profile but never came out, and Brubaker's Uncanny and Carey's X-men each had their own characters and told their own stories, until theMessiah Complex crossover. That was when Axel Alonso came on board, and made Uncanny the "flagship" book, basically telegraphing that all important X-events would happen only in this book. Carey was forced to do other things with his book, now subtitled Legacy, like focus on Professor X, or Rogue teaching the X-kids (lame, imo, as I'm a Rogue fan). Thus, Uncanny's sales shot up to the top, and Legacy's fell. Great job, Mr. Alonso.

As an X-fan, I USED to get every book, big and peripheral, in my attempts to follow the line. But with the price increases and the terrible quality of 90% of the books, I was forced to choose between abandoning the hobby altogether or learning to live with not caring about what was happening in bad books (like Fraction's Uncanny). So now I choose a few titles a month that I like.

I agree with the above. Even though digital will be cheaper, it WON'T make the books better, and if the lower production costs make Marvel think they can pump out even more frivolous crap that stretches and weakens their main characters, then they'll still suffer.

[DownInAHole]

The problem with the X-books is indeed the editorial staff. Let me just say that X-men: Legacy is one of my favorite titles BECAUSE of Mike Carey, but (up until recently) it's been in a strangelhold by fiat. When Carey took over X-men, there was no flagship title. Whedon's Astonishing was high-profile but never came out, and Brubaker's Uncanny and Carey's X-men each had their own characters and told their own stories, until theMessiah Complex crossover. That was when Axel Alonso came on board, and made Uncanny the "flagship" book, basically telegraphing that all important X-events would happen only in this book. Carey was forced to do other things with his book, now subtitled Legacy, like focus on Professor X, or Rogue teaching the X-kids (lame, imo, as I'm a Rogue fan). Thus, Uncanny's sales shot up to the top, and Legacy's fell. Great job, Mr. Alonso.

As an X-fan, I USED to get every book, big and peripheral, in my attempts to follow the line. But with the price increases and the terrible quality of 90% of the books, I was forced to choose between abandoning the hobby altogether or learning to live with not caring about what was happening in bad books (like Fraction's Uncanny). So now I choose a few titles a month that I like.

I agree with the above. Even though digital will be cheaper, it WON'T make the books better, and if the lower production costs make Marvel think they can pump out even more frivolous crap that stretches and weakens their main characters, then they'll still suffer.

For me Mike Carey's X-Men was the best x-book but for whatever reason Marvel only let him run with it for about a year. Then he got sucked into the Messiah Complex crossover and afterwards the book completely changed. Instead of a team book it became a Professor X solo title. If you look at where Professor X is now and how often he is being used it almost seems like Marvel are deliberately handcuffing Carey and they want his book to fail. I thought that it was pointless when the new X-Men book written by Victor Gischler was launched. Marvel already had a perfectly good writer, if they had just given Carey an actual team to work with I am sure that he could have delivered compelling stories that readers want. Instead Marvel focused on Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction, both of whom delivered fairly mediocre runs on Uncanny X-Men. Had Marvel just given Uncanny to Mike Carey I feel like the line would be in a much better/stronger place today but for some reason they keep limiting what he can do with X-Men Legacy. I find the whole situation very confusing.

[Handsome One]

For me Mike Carey's X-Men was the best x-book but for whatever reason Marvel only let him run with it for about a year. Then he got sucked into the Messiah Complex crossover and afterwards the book completely changed. Instead of a team book it became a Professor X solo title. If you look at where Professor X is now and how often he is being used it almost seems like Marvel are deliberately handcuffing Carey and they want his book to fail. I thought that it was pointless when the new X-Men book written by Victor Gischler was launched. Marvel already had a perfectly good writer, if they had just given Carey an actual team to work with I am sure that he could have delivered compelling stories that readers want. Instead Marvel focused on Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction, both of whom delivered fairly mediocre runs on Uncanny X-Men. Had Marvel just given Uncanny to Mike Carey I feel like the line would be in a much better/stronger place today but for some reason they keep limiting what he can do with X-Men Legacy. I find the whole situation very confusing.

I completely agree. Luckily, the X-books have a new editor in Nick Lowe, and they're giving Carey a team again on Legacy. I expect good things.

[ScotsScribbler]

I don't really buy into all the doom and gloom, there's never been a better time to be a comic book fan.

So Marvel and DC sales are plummeting? Good.

I haven't enjoyed the vast majority of their stuff in a very long time. I only buy Vertigo, Dark Horse, Image and other independents, of which there is more than ever. I browse and I love picking up good art.

I love comic books and there has never been more variety or choice for the reader.

There has never been a better time to make your mark.

The industry will get by. Marvel and DC won't, but that's ok.

[Blade X]

The problem with the X-books is indeed the editorial staff. Let me just say that X-men: Legacy is one of my favorite titles BECAUSE of Mike Carey, but (up until recently) it's been in a strangelhold by fiat. When Carey took over X-men, there was no flagship title. Whedon's Astonishing was high-profile but never came out, and Brubaker's Uncanny and Carey's X-men each had their own characters and told their own stories, until theMessiah Complex crossover. That was when Axel Alonso came on board, and made Uncanny the "flagship" book, basically telegraphing that all important X-events would happen only in this book. Carey was forced to do other things with his book, now subtitled Legacy, like focus on Professor X, or Rogue teaching the X-kids (lame, imo, as I'm a Rogue fan). Thus, Uncanny's sales shot up to the top, and Legacy's fell. Great job, Mr. Alonso.

As an X-fan, I USED to get every book, big and peripheral, in my attempts to follow the line. But with the price increases and the terrible quality of 90% of the books, I was forced to choose between abandoning the hobby altogether or learning to live with not caring about what was happening in bad books (like Fraction's Uncanny). So now I choose a few titles a month that I like.

Axel Alonso is definitely the problem. This is the same editor who over saw and backed crappy stories in ASM like SINS PAST,THE OTHER,and OMD. It is even rumored that he doesn't even like superhero comics, yet Marvel made him the new EIC. Quesada was bad, Alonso will be worse.

OMT, notice how XML has basically the same premise as Claremont's underwhelming Genoshian EXCALIBUR series from several years ago (and we all know how that all turned out).

[dkazaz]

Regarding the TPBs and Hardcovers that apparently don't sell - I suspect a lot of people get them online from amazon etc, given the (large?) price difference.

I certainly do that as the price for especially the more expensive items e.g. The large marvel HCs is up to 30% lower on amazon.

I'm sorry to say so but the difference is just too big to ignore - for a long time I bought all my trades from my local comic shop but the cost was significantly higher and eventually I switched to online.

Also TPB buyers are likely to be older and busier making it near impossible for us to go to a comic shop. Sometimes on a boring Sunday I go my local shop but usually, I just have zero time for comics shopping - getting them online takes 15 mins off a busy day once a month, so I can easily manage.

I wonder if we might find the trades do well via this channel - that would make them a sensible alternative for publishers since the DM simply does not address my segment's needs. Even if I had the time to walk into a store I certainly don't have the time to figure out what one shot I need to buy to follow the latest x-over or what new mini series ties in to my regular series.

Of course I agree with the premise that a smaller simpler publishing schedule would be better for all. Even me since I'd know what trades to order without wondering for example, if I need "war of kings" to follow Nova...

[Ultraist]

Hi Brian - I've been getting the feeling that the direct market has become a stagnant pond for some time now... I am buying less mainstream comics off the shelf than I ever have before (since I first started buying comics long ago as a wee lad). A couple months ago, Amazing Spider-Man (Big Time) was the only Marvel comic I was purchasing, and that stopped after the FF crossover which didn't interest me in the slightest (we'll see if Spider Island gets me back). So that means Savage Dragon is the only other superhero book on my "pull list".

Part of the problem I face is that my local shop just doesn't have the wide selection of alternative and indie comics that I find exciting. It takes a trip to The Beguiling or shopping online to find the exciting stuff that interests me (and there's a LOT of exciting stuff out there I'm spending money on).

Which brings me to my question for you: Given that it's hard for a store to make money ordering low numbers on books, what sorts of suggestions could there be for small publishers and self-publishers to accomodate the comic store's needs? How can a comic store owner order a wide selection with minimal financial risk? What can an indie comic creator do to make it easy for a comic book store to put that comic on their shelf?

Because as a comic book shopper, I crave that large eclectic selection and as a comic book creator, I obviously want to get my comic up on the shelf and make the comic book store owner some money.

How do the little guys beat the stagnant pond and start breathing life and vitality back into the direct market?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Brian Hibbs]

The industry will get by. Marvel and DC won't, but that's ok.

Erm, you do recognize there's an eco-system in play here, right? Without the dollars coming in from "mainstream" fare, DM stores will collapse. Without DM stores providing that dependable non-returnable sale, virtually every publisher that isn't Marvel or DC collapses.

There's very little comics material being published that doesn't require the stable base of the DM in order to be published AT ALL.

-B

[Stuart Moore]

Brian: Okay, I agree agree agree with most of this -- nicely said. A few nitpicks:

• Aren't you cherrypicking your figures a little by quoting 2008 vs. 2011? I haven't counted, but it looks to me as though there are fewer individual titles offered this summer than there were last year. I think Marvel IS responding to this glut, just not as strongly as you'd like, or as maybe they should. Or am I wrong here?

• "Can you imagine a TV show succeeding with the kind of stop-and-start, constant change-in-scheduling kind of production that we have in comics?" Actually, that happens all the time, especially around the holidays. Thought I'm not sure it does those shows any favors, either. It seems to me FRINGE had a particularly scattered schedule this year, and a bit of a ratings drop too.

[Brian Hibbs]

Regarding the TPBs and Hardcovers that apparently don't sell - I suspect a lot of people get them online from amazon etc, given the (large?) price difference.

While, certainly, a portion of sales have migrated over to Amazon for price/convenience reasons, your premise is clearly wrong because the DM sells tons of "good"/Popular TPs and HCs -- what doesn't sell is, generally, stuff that people don't want to actually buy (or aren't aware of in the flood of merchandise)... the same stuff that doesn't sell in the DM.

If significant numbers of consumers were "switching markets", you'd see that drop in the TOP of the charts, and you flatly don't.


I wonder if we might find the trades do well via this channel - that would make them a sensible alternative for publishers since the DM simply does not address my segment's needs.

Every year I do an annual report about BookScan for this very site -- BookScan includes all of Amazon's sales, we are told. There is no detectable general "leeching" impact that I can see in that that channel is growing at the expense of others. Nor do we see any disproportionate impact of Amazon's always available/always cheaper on poor-selling material -- if people don't want something, they don't want it for 40% off with free shipping, either.

-B

[Ultraist]

-- if people don't want something, they don't want it for 40% off with free shipping, either.


That's a really good point.

[Brian Hibbs]

Aren't you cherrypicking your figures a little by quoting 2008 vs. 2011?

Dunno, I didn't look specifically at 2010. It was an arbitrary number-out-of-a-hat, though, and *not* Cherry-picking. The five year comparison was way way worse, though.



"Can you imagine a TV show succeeding with the kind of stop-and-start, constant change-in-scheduling kind of production that we have in comics?" Actually, that happens all the time, especially around the holidays. Thought I'm not sure it does those shows any favors, either. It seems to me FRINGE had a particularly scattered schedule this year, and a bit of a ratings drop too.

Right, which is why I said "succeeding"?

I also thought of Every Science Fiction Show On Fox, Ever.

-B

[Ultraist]

Erm, you do recognize there's an eco-system in play here, right?

This is the part I'm most interested in... how do we ("we" being store owners, and alternative comic creators, and comic aficianados) create a healthy thriving eco-system?

There have to be some things we can do...

... but what?

[Brian Hibbs]

This is the part I'm most interested in... how do we ("we" being store owners, and alternative comic creators, and comic aficianados) create a healthy thriving eco-system?

There have to be some things we can do...

... but what?

Consumers should buy only what they actually truly enjoy, and not buy for "completion's sake" or things like that.

Creators should only create exceptional material.

Publishers should show restraint in what they bring to market.

Retailers should properly curate their racks and support with dollars things that the consumers want, and shun the rest.

But at the end of the day it comes down entirely to the work, and whether it provides the "right" amount of entertainment value for the cost asked.

-B

[Ultraist]

Consumers should buy only what they actually truly enjoy, and not buy for "completion's sake" or things like that.

Creators should only create exceptional material.

Publishers should show restraint in what they bring to market.

Retailers should properly curate their racks and support with dollars things that the consumers want, and shun the rest.

But at the end of the day it comes down entirely to the work, and whether it provides the "right" amount of entertainment value for the cost asked.

-B

It really does sound simple when you put it that way.

[RolandJP]

double post.

[RolandJP]

The elephant in the room is the business model. Comic shops are run exactly..and I mean exactly like they were 30 years ago. Times have changed and they never did. Like Automobile manufacturers still selling gigantic gas hogs.

Book stores are closing due to exchange and sell book stores. they allow exchanges of gently read books in exchange for store credit. They also sale books online through Amazon.

These stores are flourishing..ok maybe not that strong of a word, but they are doing solid business.

Comics are being strangled by niche thinking and catering. No discount cards for loyal patrons..maybe knocking off 10 to 20 percent on purchases.

What Am I saying?? this. The Comic Industry is being ran into the ground. The Good news is..this forces everyone involved to innovate. The old way will not work anymore.

[Predabot]

Brian, I sent you a seemingly hostile, but truly heart-felt PM, that I hope you will respond to in a column.


It really does sound simple when you put it that way.


Consumers should buy only what they actually truly enjoy, and not buy for "completion's sake" or things like that.

Creators should only create exceptional material.

Publishers should show restraint in what they bring to market.

Retailers should properly curate their racks and support with dollars things that the consumers want, and shun the rest.

But at the end of the day it comes down entirely to the work, and whether it provides the "right" amount of entertainment value for the cost asked.

-B Hmm... it certainly does.

I've made no bones about how I hate the completist mentality, so that's a good pick to see you make, Brian.

Someone mentioned however, a question which I realize now needs to be replied to: The question of the price, of the comic, and how it's connected to the creators.

And when I mean creators, I mean guys that can actually do the kind of work that we're used to seeing now, artistically.

Those people could be working solely as novelists, or in video-games (writer/artists alike) or just do an endless stream of commissioned artwork.

1 dollar comics seems to be the thing most people want, but are they prepared to buy completely disgustingly bad, newbie, not-wet-behind-the-ears comics, from people such as me, and everybody else with a dream on this board, to create comics?

Would 1 dollar comics be worth it, if they are actually not worth even 1 cent, content-wise?

[Ultraist]

Would 1 dollar comics be worth it, if they are actually not worth even 1 cent, content-wise?

Well, I think Brian sort of answered that one a couple posts back when he said "at the end of the day it comes down entirely to the work, and whether it provides the "right" amount of entertainment value for the cost asked."

... if it's not worth a cent, then it's certainly not worth a dollar.


Dave Sim also said it nicely when he wrote "If they read your first issue and it cost them what a beer would cost and they come to the end and don’t say, “I should’ve bought the beer instead,” that’s as big as it gets in the comic-book field. You’re a hit! Why? Because you don’t totally suck. Try not to totally suck and try to give them something self-contained in the first issue.”

[briest57]

.

Retailers should properly curate their racks and support with dollars things that the consumers want, and shun the rest.


-B

Curious if you think the glut is hurting slaes have you tried cutting down the number of titles you carry and have you seen an uplift in sales of other books?

Or do you worry that if you cut the amount of titles customers will go elsewhere?

[Ultraist]

Curious if you think the glut is hurting slaes have you tried cutting down the number of titles you carry and have you seen an uplift in sales of other books?

Or do you worry that if you cut the amount of titles customers will go elsewhere?

Hmm. Intersting question!

[Hanzo the Razor]

That's a really good point.

Well, kinda...

I frequent my LCS for monthly books and get the occassional trade there... but when it comes to the big purchases, I go online.

An easy example is the recent Simonson Thor Omnibus -- at $125, it's just too much to pay at one time for a book, no matter how good and high-quality the production is. But at $70 on Amazon? For $55 less? Still steep, but hey, it's more in my price range.

Another example is the recent Art of Thor movie book -- I'm not too interested at $50. But Borders just offered a 50% Off coupon this past weekend and with $5 in Borders Bucks available, I dropped a mere $20 on the thing.

Still another example is some smaller purchases -- I wanted the final volume of Astonishing Wolfman, the latest Irredeemable trade, and a Hellboy team-up TPB. It's somewhere around $55 at retail -- closer to about $35 at Amazon. It's practixally like buying two and getting one free.

I do buy a few things at the store, mostly out of guilt and/or impatience, but the vast, vast majority of my trade buying goes online. The discounts are too deep to ignore and I am able to buy way more than I'd be able to at the shop.

[Ultraist]

Well, kinda...

I frequent my LCS for monthly books and get the occassional trade there... but when it comes to the big purchases, I go online.

An easy example is the recent Simonson Thor Omnibus -- at $125, it's just too much to pay at one time for a book, no matter how good and high-quality the production is. But at $70 on Amazon? For $55 less? Still steep, but hey, it's more in my price range.

Another example is the recent Art of Thor movie book -- I'm not too interested at $50. But Borders just offered a 50% Off coupon this past weekend and with $5 in Borders Bucks available, I dropped a mere $20 on the thing.

Still another example is some smaller purchases -- I wanted the final volume of Astonishing Wolfman, the latest Irredeemable trade, and a Hellboy team-up TPB. It's somewhere around $55 at retail -- closer to about $35 at Amazon. It's practixally like buying two and getting one free.

I do buy a few things at the store, mostly out of guilt and/or impatience, but the vast, vast majority of my trade buying goes online. The discounts are too deep to ignore and I am able to buy way more than I'd be able to at the shop.

True.

I just picked up the Megaman Megamix volumes and "Paying For It" via Amazon for the exact reasons you mentioned... because if I can save THAT much online, I'm going to.

But I also know I've found books in the dollar bin that I wouldn't even pay that much for...

[QCCBob]

The elephant in the room is the business model. Comic shops are run exactly..and I mean exactly like they were 30 years ago.

Ummm, NO! You have no idea what you're talking about and I don't have an hour or two to even start explaining it all...

In 1981, I started in a shop with wire panty hose racks to display new comics, a tupperware cash box, a calculator, a sales tax chart, and a spiral bound notebook we wrote our sales figures in whose original purpose was selling used paperbacks.

The two most important factors affecting the business end from 30 years ago...

We had multiple distributors.

We didn't have Final Order Cut Off.

I'll not waste my time explaining what all that means, but it's a completely different animal nowadays in almost every aspect. Well, except for selling comic books and even that, by reason of the fact that we're pretty much the only place you can get most comics, is completely different than 30 years ago.

Publishers haven't changed much, but retailing has and therein lies the rub. They do most everything about the same which continues to end up with falling sales.

Oh, I don't fault people for wanting to save money, but I have serious doubts as to the viability of affordable books if the DM collapses... Amazon deals won't seem so great when SRPs start skyrocketing.

[mike weaver]

Two thumbs up Brian!
We need quality over quantity! That will get me back in the store and spending my money.
I am just astounded at what I am seeing Marvel put on the shelves these days. With so many of their books I have to ask myself, "Why was this even made?" So much flat, unprofessional, inconsistent art. Honestly, I visit my local comic shop less often just because it makes me feel down to see so much stuff that the editorial process should be weeding out and creators who were clearly not ready for the big leagues.

[Paul Render]

Erm, you do recognize there's an eco-system in play here, right? Without the dollars coming in from "mainstream" fare, DM stores will collapse. Without DM stores providing that dependable non-returnable sale, virtually every publisher that isn't Marvel or DC collapses.

There's very little comics material being published that doesn't require the stable base of the DM in order to be published AT ALL.

-B

I don't think this is entirely true. I buy a lot of comics (90% non marvel/dc) and I visit my local direct market store maybe twice a year.

While I don't want there to be no comic stores, maybe it's inevitable?

[Ultraist]

While I don't want there to be no comic stores, maybe it's inevitable?

I sure hope not! I LIKE comic stores!
(I just wish more of them had all the stuff I like the best).

[dkazaz]

While, certainly, a portion of sales have migrated over to Amazon for price/convenience reasons, your premise is clearly wrong because the DM sells tons of "good"/Popular TPs and HCs -- what doesn't sell is, generally, stuff that people don't want to actually buy (or aren't aware of in the flood of merchandise)... the same stuff that doesn't sell in the DM.

If significant numbers of consumers were "switching markets", you'd see that drop in the TOP of the charts, and you flatly don't.



Every year I do an annual report about BookScan for this very site -- BookScan includes all of Amazon's sales, we are told. There is no detectable general "leeching" impact that I can see in that that channel is growing at the expense of others. Nor do we see any disproportionate impact of Amazon's always available/always cheaper on poor-selling material -- if people don't want something, they don't want it for 40% off with free shipping, either.

-B

Brian I obviously cannot disagree with the argument that low quality content will not sell on amazon or anywhere else, regardless of price.

And clearly I have already agreed that the comic publishing industry's problem is too much material of generally low quality (it really feels like "product" when you read it, not like a story), while high quality content is few and far between.

I have noted with interest the rise of special series like DC's All-Star line to publish the content that is considered really high quality. It's almost an admission that the run of the mill stuff is poor garbage. Shouldn't the regular e.g. Superman comic have that quality? Wouldn't it be better for the industry if there was just one superman book a month, done by the best? Similarl for Batman, the X-Men whatever.

On the other hand my point was that there is a growing market for just trades i mean a segment that never buys magazines. That segment is better served by the online bookstores for the reasons I outlined. Has your analysis revealed something different?
I'd be interested to know, since I have long thought that comic shops should be well positioned to address this market since they understand reading habits better, but very few actually do.
Certainly I can think of a couple I use, but many more fail outright. Maybe it's a question of size but I think it's a question of focus. As another poster said the DM store model is the same as 30 years ago - most stores are run as nickel and dime stores with some notable exceptions. There is no focus on the factors that would give them a healthy online TPB business. I can go into details but I don't want it to sound like a rant.


Curious if you think the glut is hurting slaes have you tried cutting down the number of titles you carry and have you seen an uplift in sales of other books?

Or do you worry that if you cut the amount of titles customers will go elsewhere?

This is something that stores have zero power over and cannot be blamed. If marvel choose to cross their most popular books over to their least popular ones, it forces the store to order at least some of them. A friend tried to radically prune the number of titles he ordered in his store and it was a complete disaster since fans couldn't get what they wanted and switched en mass to competitors.

I agree with Brian that content needs to go from quantity to quality. I also think though that he is in a minority of retailers who are focused on quality in their sales and service models compared to a mass who still function like teenagers are their only market.

[Hanzo the Razor]

True.

I just picked up the Megaman Megamix volumes and "Paying For It" via Amazon for the exact reasons you mentioned... because if I can save THAT much online, I'm going to.

But I also know I've found books in the dollar bin that I wouldn't even pay that much for...

Right -- if you don't want something, you don't want it at any price.

But there is a middle ground between "don't want it no matter what" and "I'll pay any price for it!" There are plenty of trades I'd read casually -- I won't drop $30 on them but if I find it somewhere for $10... sure, I'll read it.

It's why I dropped 90% of the books I was reading last year. I was getting all the Avengers books, regular universe and Ultimate, Iron Man, Thor, Savage Dragon and a few others. I was willing to drop $3 a book on them... but when they jumped to $4, I had a problem. I walked out of a shop with 10 books after dropping $40 and realized I didn't feel I was getting my money's worth since I was a casual reader of most of the books I was getting.

I dropped down to my "bare essentials" list -- Savage Dragon and Thor books.

That's what the price points kill -- casual fans. I read Invincible, Irredeemable, and a few others in trade format, but I'm pretty casual about the whole thing. I don't buy them right when they come out and could drop them at any point and be cool with it. Hell, I don't even read them right away when I buy them. They sit on the shelves for a while until I'm bored one day and decide I need to read the stuff I haven't gotten to yet.

So, $10 to $15 for the latest Invincible trade? Sure, okay. Any more than that? Nah, I'm good.

Comics and companies need to appeal to this kind of fan. You can't live solely off the rabid, hardcore fanatics -- because there's just not enough out there.

[Hanzo the Razor]

I liked this topic, but may I suggest another column idea, Brian?

You've pointed out the numerous problems in the business models of the
Big Two, but if you were suddenly in charge, what would you do? I thought it might be interesting to see how a retailer would control the market.

Here's how I'd handle stuff if I were in charge of the biz -- I don't know shit about the inner-workings of comics, but it's what I'd like as a customer.

The absolute top-dogs like Superman, Batman, X-Men, Spidey, etc. should have no more than two titles at a time. One should be the "main" title and the other should be the "Ultimate/Adventures" title; simple, easy-to-understand, mostly self-contained that anyone can read without being overwhelmed. These are the ones that they should distro to general audiences at Borders, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, etc. For example --

Action Comics: The "main" title for longtime fans and continuity stuff
Superman: The "general audience" title

Detective Comics: The "main" title for longtime fans and continuity stuff
Batman: The "general audience" title

Uncanny X-Men: The "main" title for longtime fans and continuity stuff
X-Men: The "general audience" title

You get the idea. So, if there's an event like "Fear Itself" or "Flashpoint", it'll affect the "main" title with tie-ins and all that but the "general audience" title will plug along with "classic" versions of the characters. Put top talent on these books instead of guys that are just cutting their teeth as they do with the Adventures line and I think they'll do pretty well.

For trade paperbacks, they should really have a specific time frame in mind that doesn't cut into monthly sales -- not only that, they should be "best of the best" things since trades are what a general audience will see once a movie is released. Clearly numbered, easy to understand. There should be a plan on how these will be released in trade format that makes it easy for anyone to follow the story -- with popular books like Twilight and Harry Potter, it's easy -- you just follow along the numbers. There's not dozens of different Harry Potter books that are only loosely related that you have to wade through to try to understand the story of Harry Potter, with different continuities like Ultimate Harry Potter, Earth One Harry Potter and Harry Potter Adventures. It's the one main book series.

Both companies should do updated origin stories for characters that lead into existing material for readers to follow along. To take Thor as an example, since he has a film out, they should have done the "First Thunder" origin series in a way that clearly leads into whatever the next book that they'd like readers to buy, so it's all pretty seamless. Let's say it's the Simonson run --

Thor Vol. 1: First Thunder by Whoever
Thor Vol. 2: Ballad of Beta Ray Bill by Simonson
Thor Vol. 3: Twilight by Simonson

Etc., etc. I'm sure they can take the important runs and figure out a "path" that makes it easy for a reader to understand how they should proceed up through the modern continuity, ignoring the confusing stuff and cherry-picking the best stuff.

The "hardcore" books can still be published but should be made available to the Direct Market only, with retailers who understand who these books are intended for and can guide new fans in the right direction.

None of this takes into account the digital market, but I'm just going off of what's going on right now.

[Ultraist]

Good analysis "Hanzo the Razor"!

And good call on Savage Dragon.
That book is awesome!

[Brian Hibbs]

I don't think this is entirely true. I buy a lot of comics (90% non marvel/dc) and I visit my local direct market store maybe twice a year.

As I said: it is an eco-system. Any "death" of the Direct Market wouldn't mean "and then no one would ever publish a comic book every again in the history of mankind" -- but the economic basis of publishing print comics for virtually any publisher is largely dependent on having that stable base of non-returnable sales, paid for in a timely manner, to cover the cost of initial production.

So, while I couldn't say with 100% certainty that, say, Fantagraphics would go away entirely, I still feel quite confident that their output and staff would have to be reduced by 3/4 or more.

-B

[Brian Hibbs]

On the other hand my point was that there is a growing market for just trades i mean a segment that never buys magazines. That segment is better served by the online bookstores for the reasons I outlined. Has your analysis revealed something different?

Here's the last four years of the total BookScan figures (I didn't create this just for you, I'm cutting and pasting from TaW #200) -- does this look like a "growing market"?

This figures INCLUDE Amazon, along with a significant percentage of bookstores.


Year # of listed items Percent Change Total Unit Sold Percent Change Total Dollars Sold Percent Change Av. Sale per title Av $ per title
2007 13,181 ----- 15,386,549 ----- $183,066,142.30 ----- 1167 $13,888.64
2008 17,571 24.98% 15,541,769 1.00% $199,033,741.57 8.02% 885 $11,327.40
2009 19,692 12.07% 14,095,145 -9.31% $189,033,736.31 -5.02% 716 $9,599.52
2010 21,993 11.68% 12,130,232 -13.94% $172,435,244.86 -8.78% 552 $7,840.32

The book market for comics largely plateaued a few years ago, and the rising number of SKUs for TPs is just a repeat of how the comics publishers have done business for many years: find a trend and ride it straight into the ground.


As another poster said the DM store model is the same as 30 years ago - most stores are run as nickel and dime stores with some notable exceptions.

As Bob noted, the notion that the DM retailer operates in the same manner as 30 years ago is pretty damn laughable. The Me of 1989 (when I first opened) would go out of business in 6 months in 2011 if we were Quantum Leaped.

Think about it rationally: if you're a "nickle and dime" operation, how do you stay in business year after year?

-B

[dkazaz]

Here's the last four years of the total BookScan figures (I didn't create this just for you, I'm cutting and pasting from TaW #200) -- does this look like a "growing market"?

This figures INCLUDE Amazon, along with a significant percentage of bookstores.

The book market for comics largely plateaued a few years ago, and the rising number of SKUs for TPs is just a repeat of how the comics publishers have done business for many years: find a trend and ride it straight into the ground.

As Bob noted, the notion that the DM retailer operates in the same manner as 30 years ago is pretty damn laughable. The Me of 1989 (when I first opened) would go out of business in 6 months in 2011 if we were Quantum Leaped.

Think about it rationally: if you're a "nickle and dime" operation, how do you stay in business year after year?

-B

Good point - I guess I have been away from comic shops for a while now. The ones I see still seem stuck in the old ways but probably many have evolved.
Regardless, my point about the average comic shop failing in the online market (for trades, or new stuff) still applies. As recently as two years ago, I tried switching back from trades to monthly books and order online from a very reputable (and supposedly advanced) UK store. It was a pretty sad state - wrong comics sent, difficult ordering system - an online model stuck in the 90's. I gave up after 6 months. I have found a group of large US stores that serve me well but still not well enough to make me switch back to monthly comics.

Note that this does it run altogether counter to your basic argument. Perhaps the key problem online (same as offline) is exactly what you say - a glut of low quality titles, that makes ordering complex, risky and ultimately unrewarding. The shops didn't get it right but it was easier to get it wrong due to the publishers.

As to your data on sales - that was a real shock. I never imagined the market for TPBs was shrinking like the monthlies, how could I since more material is published every year? I'm in strategy for a major multinational company and the idea that we'd produce more products in a shrinking market seems insane to me!

[Brian Hibbs]

As to your data on sales - that was a real shock. I never imagined the market for TPBs was shrinking like the monthlies, how could I since more material is published every year? I'm in strategy for a major multinational company and the idea that we'd produce more products in a shrinking market seems insane to me!

Hey, it's insane for those of us in a micro-market like comics, too :)

Now, having said that, let's be fair and acknowledge that the overall bookstore market crash is PRIMARILY from the bubble popping on Manga, and that Western comics are essentially flat, which in this economy is up. But that SKU growth is radically out-performing sales velocity, that's 100% for sure.

-B

[Paul McEnery]

Book stores are closing due to exchange and sell book stores. they allow exchanges of gently read books in exchange for store credit. They also sale books online through Amazon.

.

I think this is a very good point. What I've seen survive in the music and book store biz is "new and used".

There are books I've been willing to shell out ten bucks for -- especially in trade for old books -- which I wouldn't shell out twenty bucks for; and whole series that show up in the used store which are tempting at the 1/3 to 1/2 price because you've got the whole read, and a more-or-less guarantee of getting half your money back on return to spend on more books later on.

"Return for trade" gives you something very like double the money you spent; you've paid half-price; so your ten dollars comes out looking a lot like forty (or thirty once you take the sales tax into consideration). For somebody who reads a whole helluva lot, and likes to keep a huge collection in turnover, that's an unassailable deal. Especially with the high ticket items.

Of course, it's also killing the goose, because new and used stores can't get in or display as much new stock. But then again, maybe being pickier isn't such a bad idea.

[bluetyson]

As to your data on sales - that was a real shock. I never imagined the market for TPBs was shrinking like the monthlies, how could I since more material is published every year? I'm in strategy for a major multinational company and the idea that we'd produce more products in a shrinking market seems insane to me!

As far as I can see, from a business analysis point of view, media companies in general are poor at analysis, strategy, etc. Modelling might be nonexistent. :)

[dkazaz]

As far as I can see, from a business analysis point of view, media companies in general are poor at analysis, strategy, etc. Modelling might be nonexistent. :)

Indeed! It has to be, that's the only explanation!
:tongue:

[briest57]

This is something that stores have zero power over and cannot be blamed. If marvel choose to cross their most popular books over to their least popular ones, it forces the store to order at least some of them. A friend tried to radically prune the number of titles he ordered in his store and it was a complete disaster since fans couldn't get what they wanted and switched en mass to competitors.
.

I suspected that would probably be the result and certainly is a problem. Maybe it's different in the States but here in the UK outside of London very few places have more than one store. Couldn't stores just order copies when there's a crossover.

Going by the diamond sales figures the crossover books may get a lift in sales but they don't always sell as much as all the others which suggests that it not all buyers would miss the titles.

And what about mini-series you could cut those.

If copies are really selling 1 or 2 copies would they really be missed?

[RDFozz]

Can you imagine a TV show succeeding with the kind of stop-and-start, constant change-in-scheduling kind of production that we have in comics? No, the mass audience wouldn't be interested in those kinds of shenanigans.

I can only think of one TV show that can be used as an example, and that's about 25 years old: MOONLIGHTING. The first season consisted of 6 episodes - as a mid-season replacement, that's probably what was intended. The fifth (and last) season had 13 episodes - which is probably normal for a show that was cancelled partway through the season. However, at a time when 22-episode seasons were the norm, the three seasons in between had at most 18 episodes. While some would point to various storyline or creative issues, it's not unreasonable to assume that this played a part in the show's decline and cancellation.

[ConnHawk]

Two points-

2. The trade-waiting game. I get the feeling that both Marvel and DC have this weird "step-child" vibe with their TPB and HCs. What I mean is that both publishers seem to have upped the output on these items but not the promotion. I keep steady track of the TPBs and HCs I want and I pull them when Previews comes out. But I think I'm a rarity for this. Just like Marvel and DC go to CBR and Newsarama to hype their newest monthly book, why can't they hype a worthwhile TPB or HC that'll get released in a few days? Just a thought



I do this too. I still read monthlies but also have alot of titles that I read in trade. I order through DCBS, so every month I load up on my monthlies, and fill in my budget with whatever trades I want. Usually my budget fills up with trades of the series I'm collecting, but when it doesn't I'll go in for something special like a Hellboy Library Edition or Deluxe JLA, or an Absolute. Whatever can't fit into my budget for that month just goes on my Amazon Wish List, which people pull from for Christmas and birthday gifts, or that I load up on when I get gift cards.

[virtualmark]

While I find 'state of the industry' discussions very interesting and Brians column fascinating the recurring problem I find is the number of people so steeped in nostalgia for the mythical golden age of when they were young that they can't have an honest discussion about the state of the industry. I don't run a comic store and have never worked in one but for all those people who think the stuff being produced today by the Big 2 are uniformly crap I'd like you to take a good honest look at the work from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and today. There is (of course) plenty to complain about and I have my own personal opinion about what I think is good and what i think is crap (which I don't want to mention because it will turn into a flame war with those who disagree), but I read comics when I was younger and i can say that as a whole the standard of art and writing is infinitely better. I mean when I go through my long boxes I have a lot of affection for what i am reading but the standard of the craft is on the whole (please note my use of that phrase) better today. Take off the rose tinted glasses. Now if you can't do that fine, but if comics are making you that upset just stop reading them. seriously. if you get no joy form the hobby then just stop. For your sake. I mean I get upset the way some people get upset here about comics about politics because politics affects every part of my life and there is no escaping it. Comics are supposed to be a fun hobby. The venom and vitriol (not to mention the egotism and narcissism) of the people who think they have all the answers and have the mentality that "everything would be better if I ran the show" makes comics a sadder place for everyone.
That's just my two cents. Take it as you will.

[ConnHawk]

I have been a dedicated reader of comics for almost 25 years. Marvel lost me in the 90's and I held on to Batman at DC until last year. With the death of Bruce Wayne and no end in sight of Event-o-Rama, I just said "screw it" and went cold turkey. I now buy the same amount of books all from Dark Horse (Yayy Hellboy!!!), Vertigo (yes I know its DC, but its not Universe books) and many independent publishers. I do rely on trades and I do buy them from Amazon and EBAY. I visit local comic stores when I travel to shoot the breeze and see whats new. Quality gets my money every time. DC and Marvel would have my money still if they had a tight assortment of killer books. Eventually the marketing strategy will implode from the sheer volume of crap that nobody will pay money for anymore.

I can't see how new readers are going to be attracted by content light, continuity heavy dreck.

I've been trying to go this route for years, but can't break away from the "addiction" of having collected some of these titles for basically my whole life. I'm gradually becoming more trade and independent-heavy, but I still buy 10-12 monthlies that I just can't force myself to go "cold turkey" on.

That said, I am really enjoying some of the stuff I'm reading monthly - Detective, Uncanny X-Force, Thunderbolts, FF - those are my favorites right now. I'm pretty much sticking with Amazing Spider-Man because it is my long-time go-to favorite character, but I have to say I'm not loving it.

[ConnHawk]

3. Stop major ground changing/continuity shifting events from happening every year. This is why I stopped reading most of my pull list. The stories are broken up and delayed because of tie-in issues to major events. Changing continuity every few years and having major events every year has gotten old. Why bother reading the major shake up when it is just going to be switched in a couple of months because the major event that is 6 issues long was delayed a few months, so the next summer event starts in just a couple of issues.

Yeah, but as fans (myself included), we seem to eat this stuff up. And The Big 2 have said repeatedly that shakeups and events sell, so why would they change their behavior and stop doing them? I've tried to resist the siren song again and again, but whenever I swear off an event, I get sucked back in. In fact, just picked up the first 2 issues of Fear Itself and the first issue of Gates of Gotham even though a month ago I was certain I'd just catch up on them in trade IF the feedback from the community was positive.

I think this strategy is much more sales-driven than anything else. If some of the top creators dug in and said they just wanted to tell their story for 1-2 years at a time, I think they'd have a hard time fighting that battle unless the shot callers at the Big 2 were convinced that they wouldn't miss out on the money they'd get from events and continuity shakeups. Sad but true.

[Ultraist]

but for all those people who think the stuff being produced today by the Big 2 are uniformly crap I'd like you to take a good honest look at the work from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and today.

There are elements of "the craft" today that are above and beyond most books I read in my "nostaligic" years. But what is missing for me, especially from the Big 2, is "magic". Dan Slott captured that "magic" I was craving with ASM Big Time. Erik Larsen captures that "magic" with Savage Dragon. Garth Ennis captured that "magic" with The Punisher. Brubaker and Epting captured that "magic" with Captain America & The Marvels Project. Mark Millar seems to capture that for me as well with his projects. But for the most part, I look to the creator owned indie stuff to find the "magic" I'm looking for. Stuff with heart. Stuff that communicates real ideas. Stuff that just wants to exist, despite the resistance against it. There is an energy found in that work that gets me excited.



3. Stop major ground changing/continuity shifting events from happening every year. This is why I stopped reading most of my pull list. The stories are broken up and delayed because of tie-in issues to major events.

This is exactly why I lost interest with Captain America (renumbering and spin-off mini series) and more recently Amazing Spider-Man (with the "death of the Human Torch" event).

[briest57]

What with Marvel releasing all those Fear tie-ins, DC releasing 70+ Flashpoint mini-series issues followed by 50 number 1s I'd think retailers must be in a pit of despair right now!!

[Paul McEnery]

What with Marvel releasing all those Fear tie-ins, DC releasing 70+ Flashpoint mini-series issues followed by 50 number 1s I'd think retailers must be in a pit of despair right now!!

On the plus side, a week with just two DC comics...

[briest57]

I can only think of one TV show that can be used as an example, and that's about 25 years old: MOONLIGHTING. The first season consisted of 6 episodes - as a mid-season replacement, that's probably what was intended. The fifth (and last) season had 13 episodes - which is probably normal for a show that was cancelled partway through the season. However, at a time when 22-episode seasons were the norm, the three seasons in between had at most 18 episodes. While some would point to various storyline or creative issues, it's not unreasonable to assume that this played a part in the show's decline and cancellation.

That's a very American-centric view of things. In Europe this happens all the time to TV shows and doesn't seem to have much affect on audiences maybe because we're used to it and don't have 22/26 episode length seasons(6 or 13 being the norm). Some shows can go years before the next is shown.