Post Civil War stories

[Indiegypsy]

Anything else than these books I need to get?
World War Hulk
Secret Invasion (Bendis, 288 pgs)
Siege Premiere
Siege New Avengers
Siege Thor

For example I heard there was a Thor story that takes place right after Civil War where he's pissed at Tony Stark?

As Ive mentioned earlier, I have all Brubaker's Cap stories and prefer to wait for the volume that gathers the Dark Avengers line instead of picking them up in parts.

[Specimen 297]

Depends how thorough you want to be, really. There's loads of little stories that happen between those events and then on the other hand you have the likes of the X-Men or the cosmic stuff that is going on that usually has some sort of Civil War/Secret Invasion undertones.

And the Thor v. Tony stuff popped up quite a bit in both their titles. Specifically I remember in an early issue of Invincible Iron Man and the last issue of Secret Invasion.

[Indiegypsy]

I guess I wanna have all the major players and events sorted out, just to get a connection/continuity.
Mainly Spider-man but also the other big guys.

[Maestro]

Mighty Avengers and New Avengers: Illuminati help set up Secret Invasion. A lot of major reveals also take place in the Avengers tie-ins and not the main series.

Thor by JMS sets up his new status quo after his rebirth. It's very good

Invincible Iron Man had a year long story of Osborn chasing down Tony Stark

[Indiegypsy]

Thank you both! What are these stories called as paper or hardcovers?

[Maestro]

you can search for them on Amazon.com. here are a few

Thor Omnibus (http://www.amazon.com/Thor-Omnibus-J-Michael-Straczynski/dp/0785140298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305739872&sr=8-1)
Invincible Iron Man Omnibus, Vol. 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Invincible-Iron-Man-Omnibus-Vol/dp/0785142959/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305740532&sr=8-1)

also all Avengers comics by Bendis.

New Avengers, Vol. 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785124640/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305740246&sr=8-1)
New Avengers, Vol. 2 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785130853/ref=pd_sim_b_1)
New Avengers, Vol. 3 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785137637/ref=pd_sim_b_2)
New Avengers, Vol. 4 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785142622/ref=pd_sim_b_3) - contains the Illuminati series
New Avengers, Vol. 5 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785145796/ref=pd_sim_b_6) - Secret Invasion tie-ins

[West]

Anything else than these books I need to get?
World War Hulk
Secret Invasion (Bendis, 288 pgs)
Siege Premiere
Siege New Avengers
Siege Thor

For example I heard there was a Thor story that takes place right after Civil War where he's pissed at Tony Stark?

As Ive mentioned earlier, I have all Brubaker's Cap stories and prefer to wait for the volume that gathers the Dark Avengers line instead of picking them up in parts.
Read planet hulk before WWH

[Indiegypsy]

Wow thanks! Really grateful for the help and advice!

[Prince Of Orphans]

Spider-man: Back in Black if you don't already have it. You'll need Spider-man Civil War for it to make sense though.

[Indiegypsy]

I have actually read the Back in Black saga and really enjoyed it. Great story!

Now I'm aiming to start with New Avengers and continue chronologically from there. Is that a good idea? Good stories?

[Maestro]

yes do that. also Mighty Avengers. takes place immediately after Civil War

[Indiegypsy]

Thanks! The list of books is growing :)
Only issue I have with the hardcovers of Mighty Avengers, is that the first volume is essentially the first and second of the paperbacks gathered in one big book, but the hardcover that follows is called Volume 3 - Secret Invasion. It's a bit weird to have Volume 1 and 3, but not 2, isn't it?

I mean, I still get all the issues (1-11 in Mighty Avengers Assemble), but it must look a bit odd on the shelf?

[Specimen 297]

I think you might be looking at the premiere hardcover in that case. You're after the oversized hardcover which isn't numbered and collects both volumes 3 and 4 of the paperbacks/premiere hardcovers.

[Indiegypsy]

There you go... Thank you and sorry for being super dorky about it.

[Specimen 297]

For the whole Avengers experience, this is roughly the order you should get them in (a lot of the stories happen at the same time, particularly when it comes to Siege, so this isn't an order more of a list):

New Avengers vol. 1,
House of M,
New Avengers vol. 2,
New Avengers vol. 3 and Civil War,
Captain America by Ed Brubaker omnibus 1 happens concurrently with all of this,
Fallen Son: The Death of Captain America
Mighty Avengers Assemble
New Avengers vol. 4,
World War Hulk,
Avengers/Invaders
Secret Invasion,
New Avengers vol. 5,
Mighty Avengers Secret Invasion,
Captain America: The Death of Captain America omnibus happens concurrently with all of this,
New Avengers vol. 6,
New Avengers: the reunion
Dark Avengers
Mighty Avengers Dark Reign
New Avengers vol. 7
the list
Siege
Captain America Lives omnibus

Reading Spider-Man concurrently is a bit of a nightmare because there's 3/4 satellite titles up until just after Civil War and then afterwards it was published 3 times a month so it's the case that adding them to the mix can be confusing. Most the event tie-ins are miniseries as well, for all intents and purposes the Amazing Spider-Man it's a stand-alone title (there is a Dark Reign tie-in, but other than that there's no event tie-ins).

Thor by JMS kicks off just after Civil War and continues on.

Invincible Iron Man kicks off just before Secret Invasion and continues on.

Avengers: The Initiative starts after Civil War and continues through to Siege.

Thunderbolts can be jumped on after Civil War with Warren Ellis' arc. There's an Ultimate Collection coming out later this year or you can track down the two trades "Faith in Monsters" and "Caged Angels". These are precursors to Dark Avengers. It continues on afterwards tying into events.

Daredevil doesn't really tie into any events but #92 (start of Brubaker's run) happens around about Civil War and #600 (start of Diggle's run) happens just after Secret Invasion. Immortal Iron Fist starts just after Civil War but doesn't tie-in to any events. The Punisher and Moon Knight have series' that start around Civil War and continue on to the Heroic Age, tying into most events, but change names half way through. Ms. Marvel had a solo series that starts just before Civil War and continues on 'til Dark Reign.

Adding X-Men to the mix is just further confusion. They have whole separate events and stuff. Some Wolverine Origins stuff sets up Daken, but most people don't rate that series highly. I don't mind it.

Most tie-in miniseries are clearly listed on trade so you can easily just pick up anything that ties in that catches your eye.

[Telos]

you can search for them on Amazon.com. here are a few

Thor Omnibus (http://www.amazon.com/Thor-Omnibus-J-Michael-Straczynski/dp/0785140298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305739872&sr=8-1)
Invincible Iron Man Omnibus, Vol. 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Invincible-Iron-Man-Omnibus-Vol/dp/0785142959/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305740532&sr=8-1)



Definitely get these.

I'd also recommend:
Thunderbolts: Faith in Monsters (right after Civil War)
Thor: Latverian Prometheus
Dark Avengers vol 1-3
Mighty Avengers: Earth's Mightiest
Mighty Avengers: The Unspoken
Mighty Avengers: Siege

Planet Hulk and World War Hulk you can basically skip. They don't actually affect the Marvel Universe very much and the stories were only okay.

[Indiegypsy]

That's exactly the kind of guide I was looking for! It's a bit tricky for a new(ish) reader to get a hang of where to start, but this was really good. Very nice of you to put it together!

[Telos]

You're welcome :)

I'd also recommend skipping most of the tie-ins, e.g. Siege: Thor, Secret Invasion: New Avengers, etc. All the important stuff takes place in the main books, and otherwise you'll have to keep switching around. The tie-ins read better if you collected them issue-by-issue as they came out. Otherwise it's sort of all over the place, especially with the New Avengers tie ins.

[Specimen 297]

I re-edited my post on the page before to be a bit more thorough with other titles if that helps.

[Indiegypsy]

Specimen: Thanks, appreciate it a lot! Scary but promising how many great stories I have yet to read!

[Telos]

Specimen: Thanks, appreciate it a lot! Scary but promising how many great stories I have yet to read!

Not all of them are great. Many of the New Avengers stories after Secret Invasion were actually pretty bad. Just warning you :tongue:

Edit: Although I do agree with his recommendation of the three Captain America omnibuses. Very relevant and very good stuff.

[Specimen 297]

I wasn't really recommending anything, just ordering most the key Avengers-related titles and saying when the best time to start reading them in correspondence with the rest is.

But, yeah, the Cap omnibuses are great.

[Indiegypsy]

Are they so bad I should avoid everything New Avengers after Secret Invasion?

[Telos]

Are they so bad I should avoid everything New Avengers after Secret Invasion?

They're not utterly abysmal, but there are better things to spend your money on. It doesn't have a lot of action, the characters tend to sound the same, and after reading the rest of the New Avengers this may seem quite stale. Maybe check out the first three or so volumes of New Avengers, see what you think of it, and then decide. I haven't read the whole run, but it does lose a lot of steam after Secret Invasion.

You get a good enough idea of what's going on by reading Dark Avengers, Invincible Iron Man, Thor and Mighty Avengers. Instead I'd suggest these:

Avengers Prime (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Prime-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/078514725X/ref=pd_sim_b_3) - This takes place right after Siege and helps Iron Man, Captain America and Thor reconciliate after Civil War. Solid story.
Avengers vol 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Vol-Brian-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785145001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305810554&sr=8-1) - After Siege, Avengers was relaunched. Still not quite as good as the early 2000s but definitely better than post-Secret Invasion New Avengers.

[Specimen 297]

I don't think New Avengers particularly goes downhill after Secret Invasion. It's still definitely worth a read. At that point though both Mighty and Dark Avengers are a lot better.

[Indiegypsy]

So after the kind folks at CBR helped me out, I decided to start off with these:
Avengers Disassembled
House of M
New Avengers 1-4
Mighty Avengers Assemble

And continue from SI after that.

[Indiegypsy]

I've seen a book called Siege Prelude, but I suppose I'll get what's in that from the other books before Siege?

[Indiegypsy]

I've seen a book called Siege Prelude, but I suppose I'll get what's in that from the other books before Siege?

[West]

Planet Hulk and World War Hulk you can basically skip. They don't actually affect the Marvel Universe very much and the stories were only okay.

Planet Hulk was only okay? What?!

[Indiegypsy]

From what I've heard, at least WWH should be pretty awesome.

[Specimen 297]

The Siege Prelude can be ignored if you're reading New Avengers, Dark Avengers and Thor before hand.

Same goes for Dark Reign: Accept Change and Secret Invasion: The Infiltration.

They're kind of like tasters and quick summaries for casual fans.

[Telos]

Planet Hulk was only okay? What?!

I didn't like the premise of the whole thing. "Hulk becomes king of alien warrior planet"? Bleh.

Aside from the fight with Iron Man at the start, World War Hulk was (IMO) lackluster. And the art somewhat killed it.

[CromagnonMan]

Anything else than these books I need to get?
World War Hulk
Secret Invasion (Bendis, 288 pgs)
Siege Premiere
Siege New Avengers
Siege Thor


this is a list of probably the worst stories of recent times. Stay well away from the events if you want to read good stuff.

Spider-man #546 (start of Brand New Day) - current is an awesome run and much better than anything on your list.

[West]

From what I've heard, at least WWH should be pretty awesome.

PH gives you the full story.

I didn't like the premise of the whole thing. "Hulk becomes king of alien warrior planet"? Bleh.

He didn't become a king immediately, and it only lasted for a few days until the warp core exploded.

[Telos]

this is a list of probably the worst stories of recent times. Stay well away from the events if you want to read good stuff.

I wouldn't completely avoid the events, some of them are sort of required reading to understand the status quo of the Marvel Universe. He's right, though, in that most of the Secret Invasion and Siege tie-ins weren't very good. I've only included some of the best tie-ins here:

Here's a more comprehensive list going back to 2004's Avengers Disassembled. You'll be better off starting from there than Civil War.

Iron Man: Extremis
Avengers Disassembled
New Avengers vol 1 hardcover
House of M
New Avengers vol 2 hardcover
Secret War
Captain America omnibus by Ed Brubaker
Civil War
New Avengers vol 3 hardcover
Death of Captain America omnibus by Ed Brubaker
Mighty Avengers: Assemble hardcover
If you still want to read World War Hulk it fits in here
New Avengers vol 4 hardcover
Secret Invasion
Secret Invasion: Thor
Dark Avengers vol 1
Invincible Iron Man omnibus by Matt Fraction takes place concurrently with everything from Secret Invasion to now
Thor omnibus by J. Michael Stracynzki takes place concurrently with everything Death of Captain America to now
Thor: Latverian Prometheus
Dark Avengers vol 2
Dark Avengers vol 3
Mighty Avengers: Earth's Mightiest
Mighty Avengers: The Unspoken
Mighty Avengers: Siege
Captain America Lives! omnibus by Ed Brubaker
Siege
Avengers Prime
Avengers vol 1


That's a mish-mash of really good and/or really important stories. Enjoy :biggrin:

[Indiegypsy]

Thanks for helping me straighten this out, all of you.

It was kind of a big leap from my last real memory of comics (the original clone saga) to Civil War. I was really amazed of what was actually possible to do within the medium, and how much it has advanced over the years. So how about now? Good time to be a Marvel fan?

[Telos]

Good time to be a Marvel fan?

It's an okay time. The solo titles (Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man) have all been pretty good recently. Ed Brubaker's work on Captain America has been fantastic. Thor has been a little bumpy, with extremes in quality. The first four or so arcs were amazing. The next two were okay, and the most recent one was utterly awful. A new arc is just starting. Invincible Iron Man has beautiful art, although the stories can be kind of slow sometimes. The writing on Amazing Spider-Man has been awesome for the most part, but slightly brought down by the cartoony artwork.

The main Avengers book, however...

Basically, a writer called Brian Michael Bendis has had near-total control of the Avengers franchise for about seven years. Some people love him, some people hate him. What annoyed a lot of fans is that, in his very first story arc, he disbanded the Avengers and killed several memorable and well-loved characters just for shock value. This was Avengers Disassembled.

After that, he began the New Avengers. Unfortunately, a large chunk of the New Avengers stories don't actually feature any characters that have been members of the Avengers before. A lot of them focused on Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and Ronin (who was Hawkeye back from the dead, but with a crappy new costume and a sudden, random change in personality). The storylines were quite different from what Avengers fans were used to, and not in a good way (in my opinion).

I haven't read all of New Avengers, but aside from the first few arcs, a good portion of it wasn't very good. The members weren't the characters I knew and loved, there wasn't very much action, and a lot of them spoke like 16 year old schoolgirls. Quite snarky attitudes.

Just last year the main Avengers team was put back together, and the stories returned to a slightly more classic feel. I still question some of his roster choices, and I don't feel that he uses everyone efficiently. For example, Spider-Woman has been a member of the Avengers for around 12 issues, but it's only now that she's actually doing something important. It's taken 12 issues for her to be something more than background.

Don't take my word as law, I know a lot of people on CBR are big fans of Brian Michael Bendis's New Avengers series. However, if you were a fan of Avengers before, you may well be disappointed. It's vastly different in tone and characters.

Have you read any of the Avengers stories by Kurt Busiek? He's widely regarded to be one of the best Avengers writers ever, and had a really nice run on Avengers in the late 90s-early 2000s. This stuff doesn't have much impact on Avengers today, but the stories are still fantastic.

Volume 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Assemble-Vol-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785144986/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305889035&sr=8-1)
Avengers Forever (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Forever-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785137963/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1305889035&sr=8-9)
Ultron Unlimited (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Ultron-Unlimited-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785107746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305889066&sr=8-1) (volume 2 is impossible to find at a decent price. Ultron Unlimited collects a decent portion of it though)
Volume 3 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Assemble-Vol-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785121307/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1305889035&sr=8-4)
Volume 4 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Assemble-Vol-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785123474/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1305889035&sr=8-3)
Volume 5 (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Assemble-Vol-Kurt-Busiek/dp/0785123482/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1305889035&sr=8-2)

Seriously, check this shit out. The late 90s and early 2000s were easily the best period to be an Avengers fan. The solo titles and the main series were consistently awesome. I wish I was old enough to know about comic books back then.

[Specimen 297]

He forgot to mention, after the Civil War it lead to two Avengers teams being active. The New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. The former being unregistered and outlaws, the second being the "official" team. They were both written by Bendis' up until after Secret Invasion when Dan Slott took over Mighty Avengers and gave it a shake up and new roster. After Secret Invasion, we also get the Dark Avengers title which was written by Bendis'.

The Bendis Avengers stuff is divisive, personally I don't mind it and find it entertaining. Some people love it, some people hate it. He has his pet characters he likes to use a lot and, at the very least, he can craft a coherent story. People often complain about how a lot of his stuff is "Reservoir Dogs" opening scene type of conversations and he tends to take character's down paths that fans, and sometimes continuity, don't always agree with.

Dan Slott's Mighty Avengers (which is being collected all together in Mighty Avengers: Dark Reign HC in a few months) is more traditional Avengers-y fun with a line-up of mostly classic Avengers. Dark Avengers largely gets praised as being some of Bendis' best work.

Cap/Thor/Iron Man have pretty consistent creative teams up until the Heroic Age. Most the other titles have very inconsistent output (Spider-Man has a different team every arc). Thunderbolts is worth hoping on board with post-Civil War, it changes team quite a bit but is always quite fun. Avengers: The Initiative is a another good one. It's basically set in a training camp for the heroes and features a lot of D-list characters being trained to be Avengers and also has some set-up for Mighty Avengers in it.

But in all honesty, me and others have given you a rough order, so just go for what takes your fancy. Don't focus to much on opinion, just test stuff out and if you like it then like it.

[Telos]

Yes, I did forget to mention that. Specimen summed it up pretty well. Dark Avengers wasn't like most of Bendis's other work, it was fairly decent. Good ideas, good execution.

Mighty Avengers was way better after Dan Slott took over, for me at least.

[Knightmare10880]

I personaly find Dark Avengers to be the best Avengers related material that Bendis has done, I tend to think that Bendis just has too much on his plate, because when Bendis is good he's really good and when he's bad he's bad.

Also I find the a lot of Bendis' stories work better in the collected form rather than the monthly format. For instance the first story arc of New Avengers to me had a nice flow to it and kept you wanting to see what came next, while the following stories on the other hand when they were montly I just wanted them to end, but I think Sentry works well as a collected story.

And one final note, I think alot of his stories are just too drawn out. I think that Seige is a much better and tighter story than Secret Invasion because it was shorted and didn't seem to be stretched out as much.

[jackolover]

Remember Bendis's first arcs on NA and MA after CW were chopped and changed stories, where you got retrospectives that didn't seem to fit in that particular book, but sort of made sense once the arc was completed? It was a very off-putting style of writing.

I feel Bendis is doing it again with Fear Itself. He is looking at the event in this retrospective style, and asking the readers to just wait him out before judging it. I don't like that style, because it looses it's immediacy with the event. FI is now going as an already told story and we don't want it like that. We want Bendis to tell the story as it happens. Not as though it's already over.

[Indiegypsy]

He seems pretty cool.

I am definitely gonna have to keep an eye on Busiek too, since I don't think I have read him. Think I'm gonna try a little by Bendis and a little by Busiek to have something to compare with.