Sometimes, people are awesome

[Iangould]

In the months after 9/11, white supremacist Mark Stroman set out to murder Muslims.

He killed Waqar Hassan, a Muslim immigrant from Pakistan on September 15th. On October 4th he murdered Vasudev Patel, a Hindu immigrant from India who he mistook for a Muslim.

Now we come to the awesome part: in between the two killings he shot and almost killed Rais Bhuiyan, a Muslim immigrant from Bangladesh who lost the sight in one eye as a result of the attack.

Bhuiyan is now campaigning to prevent Stroman's execution.


Now, Bhuiyan wants to forgive.
He’ll be asking for a stay of the July 20 evening scheduled execution of Stroman, and a stop to the “cycle of violence,” as he calls it.
“Sometimes, we human beings make mistakes out of anger,” said Bhuiyan, 37, in an interview Monday with The Dallas Morning News.
...
Bhuiyan said his Islamic faith led him to realize “hate doesn’t bring any good solution to people. At some point we have to break the cycle of violence. It brings more disaster.”
...
Bhuiyan said the event changed him and he now celebrates Sept. 21 as his new birthday because it was then he got his life back. Bhuiyan has a full-time job in information technology but wants to return to college. Last fall, he contacted Dr. Rick Halperin, the director of the human rights education program at Southern Methodist University.
It was a coincidence that Halperin already knew many details of Bhuiyan’s story. Stroman had been corresponding with the professor, an anti-death-penalty activist, for two years.
Bhuiyan explained how the event had shaped his life, how he grew introspective about his faith and how he found answers to why he lived and others died.
The events, Halperin said, “raise questions about compassion and healing and the nature of justice.”
As for Bhuiyan, Halperin said, “I am amazed at the calm with which some can forgive the unforgivable.”
Hadi Jawad of the Dallas Peace Center said Bhuiyan’s actions serve as a lesson for others at a critical time for the nation and the world.
“With the 10th anniversary of 9/11 coming up, we need a narrative of compassion and healing. The world has gone through so much darkness,” Jawad said.

link (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/05/muslim-immigrant-seeks-stay-of-execution-for-his-attacker-a-convicted-anti-muslim-murderer/)


f

[SOGG]

In the months after 9/11, white supremacist Mark Stroman set out to murder Muslims.

He killed Waqar Hassan, a Muslim immigrant from Pakistan on September 15th. On October 4th he murdered Vasudev Patel, a Hindu immigrant from India who he mistook for a Muslim.

Now we come to the awesome part: in between the two killings he shot and almost killed Rais Bhuiyan, a Muslim immigrant from Bangladesh who lost the sight in one eye as a result of the attack.

Bhuiyan is now campaigning to prevent Stroman's execution.



link (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/05/muslim-immigrant-seeks-stay-of-execution-for-his-attacker-a-convicted-anti-muslim-murderer/)


f

Holy shit mate. That made my day.

[The Black Guardian]

Still waiting for the awesome.

[SOGG]

Still waiting for the awesome.

you don't think it's awesome that someone is trying to save the life of someone who tried to kill him?

[Arvandor]

you don't think it's awesome that someone is trying to save the life of someone who tried to kill him?

Can't say I love the idea of white supremacist multiple murderers not getting what's coming to them.

I'm opposed to the death penalty, but I wouldn't make any effort to save this fucker. Neither should he.

[SOGG]

Can't say I love the idea of white supremacist multiple murderers not getting what's coming to them.

I'm opposed to the death penalty, but I wouldn't make any effort to save this fucker. Neither should he.

You've got this one guy, who's probably the only person I've heard of in the past 10 years or so who is actually "turning the other cheek". He's also disproving the narrative that "brown people are killers/fanatics"

but I guess that pales in significance to the understandable need for revenge.

[HotterThanJuly]

Still waiting for the awesome.

I think OP meant "pathetic".

[Dreadstar]

This thread depresses me.

[The Once And Forever]

I think OP meant "pathetic".
There is absolutely nothing pathetic about someone having compassion, perspective, and the ability to forgive.

[mikekerrIII]

you don't think it's awesome that someone is trying to save the life of someone who tried to kill him?

No, why would anyone think that is awesome:confused:

[The Cool Thatguy]

No, why would anyone think that is awesome:confused:

Because it shows that a person isn't being dragged down by their personal loss and pain and is sticking by what they feel is right.

[J. Robb]

Nice story, unfortunate thread.

[Spike-X]

No, why would anyone think that is awesome:confused:
Because a: it shows that a person is able to overcome their primitive, bloodthirsty need for revenge, and b: it shows that not all Muslims are the kill-crazy fanatics they're often made out to be.

[dupont2005]

There is absolutely nothing pathetic about someone having compassion, perspective, and the ability to forgive.

Agreed. Can't say I would do the same, but it shows great character.

[niall mc cann]

Hey, if everyone was like him, his position wouldn't be as noteworthy. A thread like this just goes to show how head and shoulders the guy is above most of us.

He's fantastic, can't begin to express my admiration for the guy.

[Pól Rua]

Nice story, unfortunate thread.

Yeah. Shit. This thread is in imminent danger of draining out all the joy I got from reading the initial story.

Compassion. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

[Chris N]

Yeah. Shit. This thread is in imminent danger of draining out all the joy I got from reading the initial story.

Compassion. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

In fairness, this thread just serves to remind us how awesome Bhuiyan is in these times.

[Pól Rua]

In fairness, this thread just serves to remind us how awesome Bhuiyan is in these times.

There IS that. Thanks.

[HotterThanJuly]

Because a: it shows that a person is able to overcome their primitive, bloodthirsty need for revenge, and b: it shows that not all Muslims are the kill-crazy fanatics they're often made out to be.

Revenge and justice aren't always the same thing. And here's a thought: how about we talk to the families of the two men who were killed, and see how "primitive" and "bloodthirsty" they are? Or is Bhuiyan's opinion the only opinion that matters because he lived?

Better yet, why don't you read the words (http://www.executionchronicles.org/stroman/mark-writes.htm) of the man that Bhuiyan is working so hard to defend? Forgiveness is for people who are actually seeking it. This guy would blast Bhuiyan again if he had the chance - and that's what makes Bhuiyan a damn fool.

[Iangould]

Believe it or not, there are other forms of punishment besides the death penalty.

[Ben D]

Believe it or not, there are other forms of punishment besides the death penalty.

In some ways, the death penalty for some crimes doesn't serve as a punishment, really. It serves as a way out of really thinking about what the criminal has done

[Pól Rua]

Revenge and justice aren't always the same thing. And here's a thought: how about we talk to the families of the two men who were killed, and see how "primitive" and "bloodthirsty" they are? Or is Bhuiyan's opinion the only opinion that matters because he lived?

Better yet, why don't you read the words (http://www.executionchronicles.org/stroman/mark-writes.htm) of the man that Bhuiyan is working so hard to defend? Forgiveness is for people who are actually seeking it. This guy would blast Bhuiyan again if he had the chance - and that's what makes Bhuiyan a damn fool.

No. That's one of the many things that makes Bhuiyan BETTER than Mark Stroman. He's not saying he wants the guy to walk away unpunished. He just wants to stop a cycle of death and revenge.

And Forgiveness is not just for the contrite. That just Judeo-Christian folklore. Forgiveness is as much, if not more, for the forgiver than the person being forgiven. By forgiving the man who tried to kill him, Bhuiyan is no longer carrying the burden of murderous hatred and a desire for revenge.
He is free of that burden, and consequently, far better off.

[Spike-X]

Revenge and justice aren't always the same thing. And here's a thought: how about we talk to the families of the two men who were killed, and see how "primitive" and "bloodthirsty" they are?

I've read plenty of interviews with the families of murder victims whose killers were executed. A lot of them say it didn't change a damn thing.

[HotterThanJuly]

Believe it or not, there are other forms of punishment besides the death penalty.

And...?


No. That's one of the many things that makes Bhuiyan BETTER than Mark Stroman.

That, and not being an unrepentant, racist murderer. Hell, what I just flushed down the toilet is better than Mark Stroman.


And Forgiveness is not just for the contrite. That just Judeo-Christian folklore. Forgiveness is as much, if not more, for the forgiver than the person being forgiven. By forgiving the man who tried to kill him, Bhuiyan is no longer carrying the burden of murderous hatred and a desire for revenge.
He is free of that burden, and consequently, far better off.

Well, gee...that just makes him out for self, doesn't it? Not saying he doesn't have the right to be, but that doesn't quite give him that "cuddly, noble brown person" aura that's supposed to make him so "awesome".


I've read plenty of interviews with the families of murder victims whose killers were executed. A lot of them say it didn't change a damn thing.

Lots of punishments, deterrents and laws don't change a damn thing. What's your point?

[J. Robb]

Better yet, why don't you read the words (http://www.executionchronicles.org/stroman/mark-writes.htm) of the man that Bhuiyan is working so hard to defend?
Did you? (http://www.executionchronicles.org/stroman/index.htm)

September 11th, 2001 I lost my sister in the World Trade Center. I remember sitting at home watching the nightmare on TV. And knowing she was on the top floors of the North Tower… Let’s just say that I could not think clearly anymore and I am sorry to say I made innocent people pay for my rage, anger, grief and loss. I have destroyed my victim’s families as well as my own. Out of pure anger and stupidity I did some things to some men from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia - and now I sit on Death Row awaiting execution. And by no means am I proud of what I have done.

.

[Matt Algren]

And...?



That, and not being an unrepentant, racist murderer. Hell, what I just flushed down the toilet is better than Mark Stroman.



Well, gee...that just makes him out for self, doesn't it? Not saying he doesn't have the right to be, but that doesn't quite give him that "cuddly, noble brown person" aura that's supposed to make him so "awesome".



Lots of punishments, deterrents and laws don't change a damn thing. What's your point?
You make me sad.

So be it. Come, Patsy!

http://upload.moldova.org/movie/movies/m/monty_python_and_the_holy_grail/thumbnails/tn2_monty_python_and_the_holy_grail_3.jpg

[Spike-X]

Lots of punishments, deterrents and laws don't change a damn thing. What's your point?

My point is, you don't reinforce the message that killing people is bad by killing people.

[dupont2005]

Well, gee...that just makes him out for self, doesn't it? Not saying he doesn't have the right to be, but that doesn't quite give him that "cuddly, noble brown person" aura that's supposed to make him so "awesome".


What?
.....

[Iangould]

Well, gee...that just makes him out for self, doesn't it?

Yeah just like that cunt Gandhi.

[niall mc cann]

Well, gee...that just makes him out for self, doesn't it? Not saying he doesn't have the right to be, but that doesn't quite give him that "cuddly, noble brown person" aura that's supposed to make him so "awesome".

Why not?

Who else would he do it for, if not himself? He can hardly forgive something for someone else, surely?

Doesn't mean he hasn't accomplished something difficult and important, or that he doesn't deserve my (or anyone else's) admiration for that.

He might at least expect not to have to take the abuse of reactionary trolls as a response.

[Spike-X]

This thread is why we need the death penalty.

[HotterThanJuly]

Did you? (http://www.executionchronicles.org/stroman/index.htm)

I sure did. Funny how there's no mention of wrongdoing, or remorse. The closest we get is "I'm not proud of what I did." And then we go to his blog and get a bunch of "proud American" rants and that whole "little sheet heads" joke. So...like Bhuiyan, you may want to channel your energy to a more worthy cause, cuz that guy ain't it. Then again, this place DID just dedicated a buttload of posts in defense of that comic artist caught with child porn, so it seems to be a pattern.


My point is, you don't reinforce the message that killing people is bad by killing people.

I assume you're anti-death penalty. If you are, this conversation is rather pointless.


What?
.....

I'm sorry, did I misspell something?


He might at least expect not to have to take the abuse of reactionary trolls as a response.

Mild disapproval is not abuse. You know what is? Murder.

[Iangould]

I assume you're anti-death penalty. If you are, this conversation is rather pointless.

Not at all.

You've managed to hijack a story about a man who was nearly killed and yet has managed to forgive his attacker and turn it into a platform for your views on the death penalty while insulting and denigrating the victim along the way.

Surely that's worth something.

[Spike-X]

I assume you're anti-death penalty.

Boy, nothing gets past you, does it?

[HotterThanJuly]

Not at all.

You've managed to hijack a story about a man who was nearly killed and yet has managed to forgive his attacker and turn it into a platform for your views on the death penalty while insulting and dengrating the victim along the way.

Surely that's worth something.

The next time the only response that's allowed is "OMG MOST AWESOME PERSON ALIVE!!!1111," just say so. I didn't see that anywhere in the beginning, and I apparently missed it.

BTW, what *are* my views on the death penalty? I don't even really know what they are, but you obviously do. Care to help me out?

[Samy]

you don't think it's awesome that someone is trying to save the life of someone who tried to kill him?

No. I don't. Murderers deserve death.

[Iangould]

The next time the only response that's allowed is "OMG MOST AWESOME PERSON ALIVE!!!1111," just say so. I didn't see that anywhere in the beginning, and I apparently missed it.

BTW, what *are* my views on the death penalty? I don't even really know what they are, but you obviously do. Care to help me out?

Yeah, because that's obviously the only alternative to calling the victim a selfish bastard.

[HotterThanJuly]

No. I don't. Murderers deserve death.

Why are you so primitive and bloodthirsty and needing of revenge? Why can't you be loving and gentle and turn the other cheek like Gandhi or Dr. King or Rosa Parks or some other honorable, non-angry person of color?

[Spike-X]

No. I don't. Murderers deserve death.
Funny, murderers think the same thing when they decide to kill somebody. What makes them wrong and you right?

[niall mc cann]

Mild disapproval is not abuse. You know what is? Murder.

Well, it's true everyone draws the line for themself.

You didn't come on to the thread expressing mild disapproval though; you came on to call the victim of a horrific attack pathetic.

That's just insulting and classless. It's abusive.

[Iangould]

Why are you so primitive and bloodthirsty and needing of revenge? Why can't you be loving and gentle and turn the other cheek like Gandhi or Dr. King or Rosa Parks or some other honorable, non-angry person of color?

Keep mentioning Bhuiyan's race and not referring to him by name.

It makes your argument so much more compelling.

[Samy]

Funny, murderers think the same thing when they decide to kill somebody. What makes them wrong and you right?
What makes any moral view wrong or right? Their only argument is what one's personal belief is.

[HotterThanJuly]

That's just insulting and classless. It's abusive.

I could've sworn there was a "report post" button for abusive posts. Feel free to use it, rather than wasting words on me. I'd love to read your report. "Poster finds 'love thy attempted murderer' viewpoint of victim to be pathetic. Please do something about this, as it is disturbing my delicate liberal nature."


Keep mentioning Bhuiyan's race and not referring to him by name.

It makes your argument so much more compelling.

Never mind that I've used Bhuiyan's name more (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=13148242#post13148242) than once (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=13148482#post13148482) - who's arguing?

[niall mc cann]

I could've sworn there was a "report post" button for abusive posts. Feel free to use it, rather than wasting words on me. I'd love to read your report. "Poster finds 'love thy attempted murderer' viewpoint of victim to be pathetic. Please do something about this, as it is disturbing my delicate liberal nature."

Hey, I won't stop you saying whatever you like. Knock yourself out.

Doesn't change the fact that your first contribution to the thread wasn't expressing mild disapproval, as you previously claimed, or even extolling a problem with the moral position mentioned, as you now claim, it was calling a person who had just sufferred a violent attack pathetic.

As I said, classless and insulting.

[HotterThanJuly]

Hey, I won't stop you saying whatever you like. Knock yourself out.

Good to know I've got your permission.


As I said, classless and insulting.

I'll try to live with the pain of your disapproval.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Funny, murderers think the same thing when they decide to kill somebody. What makes them wrong and you right?

A jury of 12, due process and laws that have been long defined by society?

[HotterThanJuly]

A jury of 12, due process and laws that have been long defined by society?

"Slavery/marital rape/Jim Crow used to be legal!" (That's the usual rebuttal, so let's throw it out there early.)

[mikekerrIII]

Believe it or not, there are other forms of punishment besides the death penalty.

And none are nearly as effective at stopping recidivism

[Paul McEnery]

And none are nearly as effective at stopping recidivism

Or bad spelling and punctuation.

Death for everyone!

[beetlebum]

And none are nearly as effective at stopping recidivism

That's been disproven.

Even people who support the death penalty no longer use the deterrent argument, because to be blunt, it isn't one.

If anything, the death penalty is just a waste of state resources.

[mikekerrIII]

Or bad spelling and punctuation.

Death for everyone!

I'm glad that you could not find an argument against what I said, so you had to revert to criticizing my spelling,

You show your usual class Paul

[mikekerrIII]

That's been disproven.

Even people who support the death penalty no longer use the deterrent argument, because to be blunt, it isn't one.

If anything, the death penalty is just a waste of state resources.

I said recidivism, that doesn't involve deterrence. Try reading what I wrote or look up the words you don't understand

The recidivism rate for those executed is 0%

[J. Robb]

Bad news, Rais Bhuiyan saw this thread and shot out his other eye.

[dupont2005]

I'm sorry, did I misspell something?


You're the type of guy that spits when he talks I bet:smile:

[dupont2005]

Why are you so primitive and bloodthirsty and needing of revenge? Why can't you be loving and gentle and turn the other cheek like Gandhi or Dr. King or Rosa Parks or some other honorable, non-angry person of color?

What's with you and people of color? You can barely contain the rage on an internet chat board. Take a chill pill brah.

[beetlebum]

I said recidivism, that doesn't involve deterrence. Try reading what I wrote or look up the words you don't understand

The recidivism rate for those executed is 0%

And try not being a condescing individual who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

I brought up the deterrence argument because deterrence and recidivism can go hand in hand together.

And really, if your argument is that the death penalty is effective because 1210 people will not commit crimes again, then you don't have a good argument.

[dupont2005]

I'm glad that you could not find an argument against what I said, so you had to revert to criticizing my spelling,

You show your usual class Paul

Okay, how about murder rates in states that practice the death penalty VS those that don't?

How about nations that practice the death penalty VS those that don't for that matter?

[thespianphryne]

It certainly does take all types.