how would the real deal with the mutant issues

[blackdragon6]

yeah i'm pretty sure this has been asked before just roll with it anyway.

[nanteen]

By real you mean real world right?

If so in the beginning the govt would take these kids in and train them for their own uses.

After the first 20 or so the media would get wind and it owuld be all over the newspapers. Then Larry King would interview them. Then ENDORCEMENT DEALS out the wazoooooooooo.

And Until one of them killed someone using thier powers they would be the new celebrities of the world.

[OverMaster]

The real what? The real world? The Real Mc Coy? The Real Nemo? The Real Ghostbusters? The Real Folk Blues?






BTW, you obviously don't know what kind of flame wars boomed the last time this was asked, so yes, I'm just trying to lighten the mood before it's too late...

[yeoman]

It begins again.

*Runs away screaming.*

[AniX]

They lose their rights to marry or vote and etc. Because you know Bush hates people of different lifestyles of him. Seriously, they would pass a law allowing them to monitor mutants at all times.

[PRC4Eva]

They lose their rights to marry or vote and etc. Because you know Bush hates people of different lifestyles of him. Seriously, they would pass a law allowing them to monitor mutants at all times.
You say that like it's a bad thing...which it kinda is. But seriously, these aren't normal pepole. These are mutants. I understand the whole "we accept black people, so why not mutants" deal, but these guys differ from normal ppl a lot more than skin color.

Think about it. In Marvelverse, people share the world with millions of known mutants and who-knows-how-many more that may pop up. These mutants could do anything from fix your broken TV to ignite everything within a 2 mile radius. The question you ask is: do you really want to live surrounded by people like that? If a mutant's power suddenly popped and killed someone I know, what would I do?

[StoneGold]

How would Evander Holyfield deal with mutants? Probably beat them up like everyone else.


Hey, remember the last time we did this and everyone hated Jared?

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

under our current post 9/11 administration i feel sorry for anybody born with a few extra toes let alone mutant powers

[UncleBob]

How would Evander Holyfield deal with mutants? Probably beat them up like everyone else.


Hey, remember the last time we did this and everyone hated Jared?

From Subway?

[blackdragon6]

The real what? The real world? The Real Mc Coy? The Real Nemo? The Real Ghostbusters? The Real Folk Blues?






BTW, you obviously don't know what kind of flame wars boomed the last time this was asked, so yes, I'm just trying to lighten the mood before it's too late...
yes i mean the real world............were adults here we can debate contructively

[nanteen]

Lets be honest here. The Govt would try and crack down. Monitoring, ankle braclets, etc...

But since people find out they are mutants when they are what 11-15 I would have to say all hell would break loose.

If think Columbine was bad take the poor beat up outcast of your high schools and give him the ability to set things on fire by looking at them.
:(

After a couple years and a few coup attemps I am thinking the govet would come up with some kind of DNA test and have FORCED administering of this test at birth or soon after and probably kill those children. For the betterment of mankind of course.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

After a couple years and a few coup attemps I am thinking the govet would come up with some kind of DNA test and have FORCED administering of this test at birth or soon after and probably kill those children. For the betterment of mankind of course.
even under the current administration i doubt that would happen.

HOWEVER the whole tracking device thing might not be that far off though.......

[StoneGold]

From Subway?
If he is, he hasn't mentioned it. He has aids you know.


Anyways, Jared from here. One of the posters. Has ChuckG on ignore. Said the anti-mutie people had it right, people got all pissy about it.

[nanteen]

even under the current administration i doubt that would happen.

HOWEVER the whole tracking device thing might not be that far off though.......

I have nothing against the current administration. I voted Bush.

I never said the US govt would WANT to kill children BUT after a few Goth teens try and take over New York a few times. I am think they would be forced to do something drastic.

I am sure EVERYONE here has dreamed of having superpowers. And how many of us have thought about useing them in lets say a UNconstructive way. Now take away wisdom and empathy and you have your avarage teenager today.

Now give them the ability to toss cars around like cheetos.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I have nothing against the current administration. I voted Bush.

I never said the US govt would WANT to kill children BUT after a few Goth teens try and take over New York a few times. I am think they would be forced to do something drastic.

I am sure EVERYONE here has dreamed of having superpowers. And how many of us have thought about useing them in lets say a UNconstructive way. Now take away wisdom and empathy and you have your avarage teenager today.

Now give them the ability to toss cars around like cheetos.well then if x-men is included in our world then i'm pretty sure they would intervein or some other simuler entity

[Rabid Trekkie]

Yeah, America goes all Orwellian on everyone. Why? Because we think extinction is a good way to live.

There will be some problems but I don't think any civil rights organization would let the government get even close to thinking up the stuff all of you are saying.

Anyone in office who has half a brain will know that pissing off people (some of who have enough fire power to punk the fifth infantry and 3rd armored division combined) is not a good thing to do. The government would do everything possible to not give any potential Magneto a reason to go over the edge.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Yeah, America goes all Orwellian on everyone. Why? Because we think extinction is a good way to live.

There will be some problems but I don't think any civil rights organization would let the government get even close to thinking up the stuff all of you are saying.

Anyone in office who has half a brain will know that pissing off people (some of who have enough fire power to punk the fifth infantry and 3rd armored division combined) is not a good thing to do. The government would do everything possible to not give any potential Magneto a reason to go over the edge.thats what i'm saying......though it isn't the whole goverment i'm worried about just certain groups of people within the goverment whom have power

[En Sabah Nur]

The government itself would do everything in its power to have complete control over a potential and more than likely probable threat.

As for my reaction if I am still on the human side when all this happens I will say these new beings should be managed by any means. People use the term "race" to differintiate between the variations of the human race due to migration thousands of years ago, so using "If you accept blacks, why not mutant?" is not going to cut it due to Mutants actually being a different race or species than humans.

If I were a mutant I would do evrything in my power to keep my freedom if it were in jepordy. I would try to keep to myself and stay out of touble sort of like I do now, but if they come at me I will fiercely defend myself like now.

It is all a matter of perspective with me.

[StoneGold]

Thing is, mutants, as portrayed in the Marvel Universe, are no more a race than midgets or albinos. They have no unifying genetic traits. Hell, they can't even keep genetics stable inside of families. You want to tell me how Magneto had a speedster and a reality manipulator for kids, and a completly normal granddaughter? Unless the true characteristic of Homo Superior is complete and total genetic instability, mutants are not their own race or species.

[The Dog]

Mutants can be good or evil as in everyone else, the problem is mutants can throw about tanks like wads of paper and rip through the fifth infiltry like tissue.

There should be SOME limits, not total Orwellian 1984 or anything, just to know who's a mutant and who's normal and keep a little extra watch on them, because they do have amazing powers.

And if the government is smart, they keep a group of secret special mutants in case one of the civilian mutants goes Magneto.

And the ostricized teens, the Goths, the Geeks, the Aloners, and any others who would be slated into a life of mental and physical abuse would more than like do it.

And if I were a mutant, I would more than likely fight if my family, friends, or myself came into danger. And if need be, these other theoretical mutants would too, and it would be called an attack against those considered normal, no matter the circumstances.

Because people, no matter how much they say they aren't, ARE a little weary to those who are different from themselves.

And mutants are about as different as possible.

[Rabid Trekkie]

The government itself would do everything in its power to have complete control over a potential and more than likely probable threat.

As for my reaction if I am still on the human side when all this happens I will say these new beings should be managed by any means. People use the term "race" to differintiate between the variations of the human race due to migration thousands of years ago, so using "If you accept blacks, why not mutant?" is not going to cut it due to Mutants actually being a different race or species than humans.

If I were a mutant I would do evrything in my power to keep my freedom if it were in jepordy. I would try to keep to myself and stay out of touble sort of like I do now, but if they come at me I will fiercely defend myself like now.

It is all a matter of perspective with me.

This is what I have a problem with. They are still people, it is the equivalent of us going and placing a tracking device on every muslim person, or anyone of arab descent because the rest of us non muslim and non arab happen to be the majority.

Not only is this wrong on all sorts of moral levels, I mean after all we would be making a huge leap here to target a whole group because they are different, but it doesn't make any sense.

Oh sure if we piss off a group of Sammy the Squid Boys then no problem, but if we (and by this I mean government) discriminate against even two Magneto's were doomed. So even if the moral side of the argument doesn't persuade you, your own sense of survival should.

[Jagatai_Khan]

yeah i'm pretty sure this has been asked before just roll with it anyway.

All of the following would happen at once:

1) Instant celebrities. Anybody nice/good looking/personable with superpowers becomes a freaking media icon.

2) Hated and feared. Any mutants that are remotely scarey and/or amoral are hunted, arrested, both, and probably kill lots of people as they defend themselves from overzealous cops. Or they die. Or they use thier powers to run away and never get caught, and live out thier lives in hiding in some remote Tibetan village.

3) Religious upheaval: Very quickly some mutants will realize the money to be made in being religious charlatans, and they'll start cults/televangelism shows/pyramid schemes with thier powers. You thought Benny Hinn was bad? What if a mutant like him could actually heal people, instead of just hiring actors to. You'd have a new major world religion overnight, with uncountable sums of money flowing into that guy's pockets.

4) Political takeover: Mutant use thier powers to get elected/appointed/coup thier way into power. They then rule.

5) Weapons of Mass Destruction: Mutant + Radical Extreme Islam = Bad.

6) Booty: Some of the mutants are bound to be the sort with Slayven's mindset. And have superpowers/mind-powers. Guess what happens.

[En Sabah Nur]

Thing is, mutants, as portrayed in the Marvel Universe, are no more a race than midgets or albinos. They have no unifying genetic traits. Hell, they can't even keep genetics stable inside of families. You want to tell me how Magneto had a speedster and a reality manipulator for kids, and a completly normal granddaughter? Unless the true characteristic of Homo Superior is complete and total genetic instability, mutants are not their own race or species.

You have a point they are mutations in human genes. I simply remeber their names being (homo sapian superior or homo superior) this would imply that they are a different species, but they don't have idetifiable traits, after all it is the "X-Factor" gne that seperates them from us, but still they would have to be controlled and contained somehow.

Seriously, would you like an angsty teen to have that much uncontrolled power or worse yet someone like me.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

5) Weapons of Mass Destruction: Mutant + Radical Extreme Islam = Bad.

.
now this is scary.........no mater what Radical Extreme group its applied too

[StoneGold]

Seriously, would you like an angsty teen to have that much uncontrolled power or worse yet someone like me.
Never mind that, you want to see the real danger? Go read that issue of Ultimate X-Men where Wolverine was sent in to kill that kid.

[En Sabah Nur]

This is what I have a problem with. They are still people, it is the equivalent of us going and placing a tracking device on every muslim person, or anyone of arab descent because the rest of us non muslim and non arab happen to be the majority.

Not only is this wrong on all sorts of moral levels, I mean after all we would be making a huge leap here to target a whole group because they are different, but it doesn't make any sense.

Oh sure if we piss off a group of Sammy the Squid Boys then no problem, but if we (and by this I mean government) discriminate against even two Magneto's were doomed. So even if the moral side of the argument doesn't persuade you, your own sense of survival should.

You are right about certain individuals snaping and becoming Magnetoesq, but if humans put any restrants on someof the mutant that would come to be they would see it as a violation of heir rights and would go apeshit anyway, however if you don't place some restaints on mutants a lot of them ill run wild. Sort of like Marvel earth when you think of it.

Morals don't really come into play over I and my loved ones survival.

[lonewolf23k]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, when the Carrot and Stick approach would work much better.

Instead of just rounding up anyone remotely looking like a mutant, just arrange for a goverment "mutant education and service" program.. Essentially, what Ultimate X-Men showed Xavier and SHIELD doing after they went through the whole "Ultimate War" deal.

Only I see it happening much sooner, without a "government-organized pogrom on mutants"... Which I frankly don't see happening unless there's a mutant equivalent to 9/11. And if that happens, I can see a lot of mutants volonteering to help put down the mutant who did it.

[StoneGold]

Of course, here's the real problem with controlling the mutant population:
http://superherohype.com/gallery/The_Incredibles/Movie_Stills/shhjackfront.jpg
It has to be political suicide to put down Jack Jack.

[Rabid Trekkie]

You are right about certain individuals snaping and becoming Magnetoesq, but if humans put any restrants on someof the mutant that would come to be they would see it as a violation of heir rights and would go apeshit anyway, however if you don't place some restaints on mutants a lot of them ill run wild. Sort of like Marvel earth when you think of it.

Morals don't really come into play over I and my loved ones survival.

That is why we don't treat them any differently than we treat people now. New laws would have to be passed to deal with telepaths but that is about it.

If two guys get into a bar fight and one is a mutant with the same strength as Colossus and the flatscan is attacking him then if he just breaks the guys arm that is within the boundry of self defense, no crime done. However if he punches through the flatscan's head then that is manslaughter, just as it would be if it would be a normal person intentionally breaking the neck of another normal in a fight.

If the mutants see that we are treating them as we treat normal people there would be a lot less of a chance of any problems.

[MKTerra]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, when the Carrot and Stick approach would work much better.Cynicism/pessimism/realism/what-have-you.

[Phrozen]

The problem is that in the real world you are going to have mutations that are detrimental to the survivability of the mutant, evolution doesn't always work in the positive direction. Oh, and the person talking about people born with extra digits? Happens all the time, they are usually surgically removed at birth.

[yeoman]

If he is, he hasn't mentioned it. He has aids you know.


Anyways, Jared from here. One of the posters. Has ChuckG on ignore. Said the anti-mutie people had it right, people got all pissy about it.

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

[yeoman]

You say that like it's a bad thing...which it kinda is. But seriously, these aren't normal pepole. These are mutants. I understand the whole "we accept black people, so why not mutants" deal, but these guys differ from normal ppl a lot more than skin color.

Think about it. In Marvelverse, people share the world with millions of known mutants and who-knows-how-many more that may pop up. These mutants could do anything from fix your broken TV to ignite everything within a 2 mile radius. The question you ask is: do you really want to live surrounded by people like that? If a mutant's power suddenly popped and killed someone I know, what would I do?

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

But if you treat mutants like actual human beings, you greatly reduce the chance of that happening.

And that's just from a logical point fo view. From the point of view of anyone with a soul treating mutants like people is actually the *right* thing to do.

[Rabid Trekkie]

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

It wasn't like they were shot on the street, just tucked away in prison camps in the middle of Death Valley and quickly forgotten for the crime of just being different.

Just a slight difference.

[En Sabah Nur]

That is why we don't treat them any differently than we treat people now. New laws would have to be passed to deal with telepaths but that is about it.

If two guys get into a bar fight and one is a mutant with the same strength as Colossus and the flatscan is attacking him then if he just breaks the guys arm that is within the boundry of self defense, no crime done. However if he punches through the flatscan's head then that is manslaughter, just as it would be if it would be a normal person intentionally breaking the neck of another normal in a fight.

If the mutants see that we are treating them as we treat normal people there would be a lot less of a chance of any problems.

Optimism. As The Dog stated mutants are both good and evil like humans. Do you for one second think that A LOT of people would be as nice as they are now if they were granted superhuman powers?

It is human nature to want to be better than the next person, some can over come this while others can't. We can try the "You are one of us aproach, but some power-hungry people will easily take advantage of this. As to the bar fight thing, if a person with Colossus level srength realisticaly taps someone with their finger they would be in coma at least an more than likely dead. It can't be self defense when the person who started the trouble can't harm you, it would be like a bodybuilder fighting a new born baby, but widen the gap dramatically.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Yeah; if we do this "realistically" are we including our laws of nature?

If so; anyone with extreme amounts of super strength like say Hulk would be causing all sorts of natural disasters simply by existing, the merest of twitches causing tornadoes and shockwave kind of thing.

Also one of the things people are talking about is if the goth or extrovert gets uber powers.

Go the opposite direction; what happens when the prep's, jocks and bitch queens of the teen segment get ahold of them, they already think of themselves as being superior to everybody else, natural teen tendencies but what happens when their right and nobody can stop them?

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, .
mostly cause anything to the contrary is just wishful thinking

[Rabid Trekkie]

Optimism. As The Dog stated mutants are both good and evil like humans. Do you for one second think that A LOT of people would be as nice as they are now if they were granted superhuman powers?

It is human nature to want to be better than the next person, some can over come this while others can't. We can try the "You are one of us aproach, but some power-hungry people will easily take advantage of this. As to the bar fight thing, if a person with Colossus level srength realisticaly taps someone with their finger they would be in coma at least an more than likely dead. It can't be self defense when the person who started the trouble can't harm you, it would be like a bodybuilder fighting a new born baby, but widen the gap dramatically.

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Cynicism/pessimism/realism/what-have-you.oh and what he said too

[En Sabah Nur]

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

But if you treat mutants like actual human beings, you greatly reduce the chance of that happening.

And that's just from a logical point fo view. From the point of view of anyone with a soul treating mutants like people is actually the *right* thing to do.

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Of course even Xavier is willing to mind wipe whole groups of people if he feels that them knowing something is possible detrimental.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.


Well; thats part of the whole "real world" thing, it even adds more debate to the question.
After all many of them, the senile, mentally deficient and those with basically uncontrollable powers are going to cause untold damage on a huge scale.
Extreme natural disasters every day would become pretty much happenstance.

[En Sabah Nur]

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.

You make it sound like the good would greatly out number the bad, and given the fact that a person is Marvel class 100 they naturally have to have enough durability to suport what they can lift. A punch from a normal human against someone like that would hardly register.

Anywayyou cut it there will be conflict of some sort that's life, but with people of this power level the damage could be extremely high.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Oh, and the person talking about people born with extra digits? Happens all the time, they are usually surgically removed at birth.
i was being sarcastic

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Anywayyou cut it there will be conflict of some sort that's life, but with people of this power level the damage could be extremely high.we know this already the question was how would our world handle it

[The Dog]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

But remember, for every Magneto or Apocalypse that arises, there will be an Xavier or mutant-powered Martin Luther King Jr. who wants peaceful equality.

And Rexamus Grumbo has a point. What would happen if the jock/popular/teen queen bitch got powers? They already have a superiority complex to begin with, but adding powers is just fueling the flames.

If both sides of the teen spectrum had powers, I believe it would cause a full-scale war that would wipe out many of them, as well as cities and normal people.

So the "Teens get Mutant Powers" thing would most likely end in war.

[Rabid Trekkie]

You make it sound like the good would greatly out number the bad,

I'm not expecting a hundred Ghandi's to come up and fight for what is right, I do however expect just some good and decent people. There were enough on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania that they were able to over power those with weapons.

There are still people who will not let others be harmed if they can help it, will even sacrifice themselves to try to make sure another will live. Sure there may not be many but I'm, betting there are more people like that than there are evil people.

[En Sabah Nur]

we know this already the question was how would our world handle it

Yes, I know, but just about anything you can think of will be a double edged sword.

I honestly think the government would go at it with bans and limitations and that would cause envy from the mutants which will cause problems for us.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

I'm not expecting a hundred Ghandi's to come up and fight for what is right, I do however expect just some good and decent people. There were enough on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania that they were able to over power those with weapons.

There are still people who will not let others be harmed if they can help it, will even sacrifice themselves to try to make sure another will live. Sure there may not be many but I'm, betting there are more people like that than there are evil people.

The problem is; many people will simply become corrupt more than out and out evil, after all once you can tell the law to go screw itself, being a law abiding citizen becomes a low priority if they can't enforce it.

Basically if you can, cheat, steal etc...without ever worried about being punished or apprehended in someway, you'll probably start doing whatever you want, well the pettier stuff, not saying everyone becomes a killer or a rapist, but being a thief would probably become extremely likely.

Its like if you can become invisible or us TK to steal without leaving behind any clues or traces of even being there.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

if the x-men exist in our world surely things wouldn't get too out of hand,but would the goverment allow a mercenary group like the x-men to exist?

[En Sabah Nur]

The problem is; many people will simply become corrupt more than out and out evil, after all once you can tell the law to go screw itself, being a law abiding citizen becomes a low priority if they can't enforce it.

Basically if you can, cheat, steal etc...without ever worried about being punished or apprehended in someway, you'll probably start doing whatever you want, well the pettier stuff, not saying everyone becomes a killer or a rapist, but being a thief would probably become extremely likely.

Its like if you can become invisible or us TK to steal without leaving behind any clues or traces of even being there.

Exactly. People obey the law because they fear the onsequences in most cases, but take away that fear and what do you have?

These would also be the people who would follow the Magntos and Apocalypses.

[Charagon]

For every mutant with a god-complex there will be several government funded mutants there to stop them.


Crazy druggy gets in a bad break up and starts setting things on fire, his temperature controlling neighbor can put him on ice.



The only thing that changes is the scale of power. The actions remain the same.

[The Watcher]

I was tempted to close this thread to preemptively prevent what happened on the Pre-Crisis version of this thread from happening again, but I"m going to err on the side of tolerance for now.

Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil so I won't have to rethink my stance.

And CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD, your one post making vulgar assertions about fellow posters was uncalled for. Expect some form of discipinary action to be taken against you for it.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

would the goverment allow a mercenary group like the x-men to exist?
you know even for the marvel universe i was kinda iffy about this the goverment just wouldn't allow this,i might be wrong though.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

And CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD, your one post making vulgar assertions about fellow posters was uncalled for. Expect some form of discipinary action to be taken against you for it.is it from them or you!?....if its from you the punishment would be easier to swallow.no pun intended seriously

[The Watcher]

is it from them or you!?....if its from you the punishment would be easier to swallow.no pun intended seriouslyFrome me. It's very likely the posters in question had not even seen the offending post.

You will be informed by email about the length of the sentence after it begins.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Frome me. It's very likely the posters in question had not even seen the offending post.

You will be informed by email about the length of the sentence after it begins.
fair enough............

[Jared]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.
interesting

[Rexamus Grumbo]

For every mutant with a god-complex there will be several government funded mutants there to stop them.


Crazy druggy gets in a bad break up and starts setting things on fire, his temperature controlling neighbor can put him on ice.



The only thing that changes is the scale of power. The actions remain the same.


The problem is it would probably be vis-a-versa, for every mutant working with the goverment there would be hundreds doing there own thing.

For that matter; many could break the law without people ever being aware they broke the law.

The problem seems for this to be affective than the goverment would have to start becoming corrupt, use telepaths to read the minds of american citizens and do the ultimate violation, mind control, phone called threats to deal with people they know but can't actually prove anything on and etc...

Also what happens when some of the crazies in goverment get their hands on some mutants?

You know I hate to say it but the whole dark future seems almost inevitable, maybe not to the extent that Future Days Past was but still pretty dark, even if no-one around at that time realizes it.

Kind of like that charmed episode in the "good" verse where even minor transgressions were getting amputations, aside from that it was a utopia.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.you know in some ways this prooves people pesimisim about how the goverment will react to this situation.given the fact how people reacts about this issue just threw conversation alone.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Thinking about it I'm not sure society could continue; at least not civilization as we know. You would probably have tons of petty warlords or whatever claiming their territory and kicking out the goverment, back step to monarchy rule and anarchy starts coming in mad max style.

[The Dog]

Thinking about it I'm not sure society could continue; at least not civilization as we know. You would probably have tons of petty warlords or whatever claiming their territory and kicking out the goverment, back step to monarchy rule and anarchy starts coming in mad max style.

Only unlike Mad Max, these would be mutants, and the battles would be more violent and Apocolyptic.

[Jared]

From Subway?


MY NEMESIS! If there's anyone who I actually would like to see shipped off to a camp, it's that guy! Choke on your sweet chicken teriaki, you bastard!

[Rexamus Grumbo]

I just realized the problem with trying to avoid the Magneto's of the world.

You only need "one" person to go magneto and you have a walking, rechargeable atom bomb, going where it wants and doing what it wants.


Its inevitable.

[Jared]

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

[Jared]

Only unlike Mad Max, these would be mutants, and the battles would be more violent and Apocolyptic.


But would they wear assless chaps?

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Another thing; were talking about existentially America getting mutants, what about other countries which aren't privy to our way of thinking, third world countries and the like.

What happens when every country in the world becomes nuclear power?

[The MunchKING]

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

I'd like to point locking them up wouldn't make them unusually charismatic...

[The Dog]

But would they wear assless chaps?

Ok, I could see the women doing that, but the guys...

::shutters::

creepy.

[The MunchKING]

Exactly. People obey the law because they fear the onsequences in most cases, but take away that fear and what do you have?
Well THAT's cynical...

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

MY NEMESIS! If there's anyone who I actually would like to see shipped off to a camp, it's that guy! Choke on your sweet chicken teriaki, you bastard!

Indeed. They're expensive as heck, and aren't very good, either.

[The MunchKING]

I just realized the problem with trying to avoid the Magneto's of the world.

You only need "one" person to go magneto and you have a walking, rechargeable atom bomb, going where it wants and doing what it wants.


Its inevitable.

Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??

[Jared]

Another thing; were talking about existentially America getting mutants, what about other countries which aren't privy to our way of thinking, third world countries and the like.

What happens when every country in the world becomes nuclear power?

Didn't Abberrant basically do a take on that scenario? And suppossedly, Ultimates Volume 2 will as well.

Given the sheer randomness of mutations, it's quite conceivably that any country, from China to New Guinea, could end up fielding the most powerful agent in the world.

[Jared]

Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??

How well he can control his powers, for one thing. And it's not just a matter, of going nuts. Magneto isn't actually nuts, most of the time.
Even Apocalypse, just might qualify as sane.

[The MunchKING]

How well he can control his powers, for one thing. And it's not just a matter, of going nuts. Magneto isn't actually nuts, most of the time.
Even Apocalypse, just might qualify as sane.
Well OK, I didn't mean "Going Nuts" as in Batman style psychotic. I meant "going nuts" as pissed at the government and blowing shit up.

[StoneGold]

But would they wear assless chaps?
If they had asses, they wouldn't be chaps. They'd be pants.

[En Sabah Nur]

Well THAT's cynical...

That's the way I am Munchy. I don't tend to give humanity as much credit as most here. If a person were just blessed with powers you saw no one else had and there was no special restrants on the person they would walk around acting like they did before. The average person ain't that fond of the cops anyway, if you go tell them to f*ck off you wouldn't?

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Well THAT's cynical...


Not reall; its pretty accurate, like I said earlier, I don't see "the Powers" becoming rapists and killers, though that would spike, but theft and other petty crimes would rise to unimaginable levels for that group.


Well OK, I didn't mean "Going Nuts" as in Batman style psychotic. I meant "going nuts" as pissed at the government and blowing shit up.

They wouldn't even have to be pissed at the goverment to start doing that.




Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??


Well; all we need is one, only one of the uber mutants going Bin Laden on us, or magneto and that is almost a given.

Pretty much I can't see at least one of the mutants in the world that has uber power going corrupt in that manner as a possibility.


Didn't Abberrant basically do a take on that scenario? And suppossedly, Ultimates Volume 2 will as well.

Given the sheer randomness of mutations, it's quite conceivably that any country, from China to New Guinea, could end up fielding the most powerful agent in the world.


Well; I've never read the Ultimates and what I've heard about Abberrant comes from the board, so I really don't know what happened in their scenarious or if they had them.

[The MunchKING]

That's the way I am Munchy. I don't tend to give humanity as much credit as most here. If a person were just blessed with powers you saw no one else had and there was no special restrants on the person they would walk around acting like they did before.

Nobody would have... (as in me with more peacefull powers. :) )

Except he finally seemed to get a decent work ethic.

The average person ain't that fond of the cops anyway, if you go tell them to f*uck off you wouldn't?

No, I actually have great respect for the cops... I wouldn't tell them off for doing their jobs.

[nanteen]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.

Somehow I feel our cities would become war zones rather quickly.



OR on the other side we would have people taking the law into their own hands. can we say SUPER NIEGHBORHOOD WATCH COMMANDER.

:::You know bill if we could just get rid of that crack house on the corner this place would be a nice place to live:::

::Bill looks down the street and walks down and tears the building apart with his bear hands:::

[The MunchKING]

They wouldn't even have to be pissed at the goverment to start doing that.


They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...




Well; all we need is one, only one of the uber mutants going Bin Laden on us, or magneto and that is almost a given.

Pretty much I can't see at least one of the mutants in the world that has uber power going corrupt in that manner as a possibility.

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.

Well; I've never read the Ultimates and what I've heard about Abberrant comes from the board, so I really don't know what happened in their scenarious or if they had them.

[En Sabah Nur]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.

Somehow I feel our cities would become war zones rather quickly.

Exactly. These are also those who could easily be influenced. Someone like me would throw that good game at them about being oppressed all of their lives and now is the time to rise above them for you have become gods amoungst ants blah,blah,blah.

[The MunchKING]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.
And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

[The Dog]

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Yes, but what about those who decide to join together and start a new group and take over the world.

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

And those will be the most important ones in the theoretical battle of Good vs. Evil since they could swing the fight either way.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

uneducated youths couldn't be anymore dangerous than educated adults

[yeoman]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

And treating mutants like second class citizens ensures no Xaviers to fight Apocolypse types. Plus you get more Magneto types on your hands. IOW, the planet it ****ed.

If you treat mutants like anyone else then A) You get fewer Magneto's and B) You get some Xaviers.

[The MunchKING]

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?


Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program. ;)

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

And those will be the most important ones in the theoretical battle of Good vs. Evil since they could swing the fight either way.
But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.

[En Sabah Nur]

uneducated youths couldn't be anymore dangerous than educated adults

How wrong you are. They tend to be more violent and have far less to live for.

[yeoman]

I'd like to point locking them up wouldn't make them unusually charismatic...

Baka Munchy. It just raises the odds that any powerful and charismatic mutnts will be very cheesed at the human race.

[The MunchKING]

How wrong you are. They tend to be more violent and have far less to live for.
Who's more dangerous the Crypts/bloods, or the US army??

Educated people can make thier own advatanges to counter youth and enthusiasm.

[yeoman]

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Exactly. If being a mutant is illegal than you have no mutants joining law enforcement, and any you haven't locked up are criminals.

[Jared]

If they had asses, they wouldn't be chaps. They'd be pants.

I bow before your wisdom.

[yeoman]

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?



Which is worse, having a few lower powered mutants in law enforement to try and fight very powerful mutant criminals, or every mutant is a criminal and you have nothing beyond existing equipment to fight them with?

[En Sabah Nur]

Who's more dangerous the Crypts/bloods, or the US army??

Educated people can make thier own advatanges to counter youth and enthusiasm.

Who will cause more destruction to urban areas inner city gangs at war or the US Military???

[Knightosis]

You know, Magneto and Apocalypse is certainly bad, but mutants who revel
in destruction like Sienna Blaze, mad scientists like Mr.Sinister, and mutants
used as super soldiers (Omega Red) would worry me just as much.

[The MunchKING]

Who will cause more destruction to urban areas inner city gangs at war or the US Military???
Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.

[En Sabah Nur]

And treating mutants like second class citizens ensures no Xaviers to fight Apocolypse types. Plus you get more Magneto types on your hands. IOW, the planet it ****ed.

If you treat mutants like anyone else then A) You get fewer Magneto's and B) You get some Xaviers.

The opposite actually. If everything was fair and equal there would be no need for the Xavier/Martin Luther King types due to there being no struggle, you will more than likely have average people and not super honorable types. It is a good point you brought up about the Magneto/Pre-Mecca Malcom X types also due to there being no struggle, but you increase the risk of Apocalypse types who take advantage of the weak and conquer. I would rather deal with Magneto types with the help of Xavier types than deal with Apocalypse types with no Xavier aid of any kind.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...


Maybe, I suppose, being poor, being ugly, being born a minority....there's a thousand reasons or more for some body to just start blowing crap up, maybe they just like fire works.

Some guy who believes in low techness or some other wierd belief that goes against how our society functions.

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.


Except that all the others are effectively powerless to stop him.

And from the few that can; some might join him, others would just avoid him and a couple might oppose him but ultimately not before the damage is done.

Instead of the two towers it would be all of the state of New York.

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Not enough to compensate for the powers being criminals. Also this only works for the blatant criminals but what about the others who aren't so blunt, well I'll just TK this over here or slip in invisible or teleport it away while its on a truck etc...and so on.

Or maybe those criminals simply avoid the super cops when they can and still manage to be practically unstoppable. Whats the best way to deal with the flame projecting cop? Simply not be on the same side of the city as him.

What about the super criminals that even having super powered police aren't going to stop?



Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Per battle maybe but once one side wins and has somebody else to concentrate on?

What happens when the mob starts getting supers?

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

Many of whom will also be in the criminals side, because they will be criminals if only petty ones.


Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program. ;)

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

Well; they aren't going to get better numbers and the tech is basically real world tech so thats limited.


But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

Basically yeah, a hundred thousand or so in every state, most being like spiderman level in general capacity, about three hundred or so being like rogue and about four or five being magneto and ice man per state seems like a decent estimate.

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.


We can't but eventually somebody will, remember since we only need one to ever go bad its inevitable to happen.

Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.


Yep; but if a couple of those crips or bloods are carrying a nuke, things are going to get ugly.

[En Sabah Nur]

Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.

True, but the Military will not unless they move in to stop the gangs. The gangs will cause more in their petty wars against eachother.

[Metaphysician]

*sigh*

The absolute best case scenario for the "crack down" option is that you know have alot more pissed off mutants with grudges against humanity, because you've just removed the ability for any person who wanted to be just an ordinary citizen, or even an civically minded citizen ( police, fire department, etc ), to be such a person.

Congrats.

As for the whole "threat level needing monitoring" thing, well, yeah, I imagine monitoring will take place, and probably should. Monitoring, however, does not equal restricted civil rights, or concentration camps. More importantly, monitoring is only useful if you can do something about a newly discovered hostile mutant. . . and that is immeasurably helped if you have some *non* hostile mutants on your side, in the police, in the military, or just ordinary citizens willing to do something if a psycho starts randomly flaming buildings.

One last comment: claims that it is necessary to strip all mutants of freedom for the safety of society are premised on a falsehood- that a society willing to do so is worth preserving.

P.S.: References to the Patriot Act will be ignored as the ignorance-spawned BS they are.

[The MunchKING]

Originally Posted by The MunchKING
They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...


Maybe, I suppose, being poor, being ugly, being born a minority....there's a thousand reasons or more for some body to just start blowing crap up, maybe they just like fire works.

Some guy who believes in low techness or some other wierd belief that goes against how our society functions.

Most poor people, and almost all minority people don't start burning stuff IRL. They eek out there livings like everyone else. I mean there's a few ugly/poor/minority people that do that kind of thing, but they usually have some other reason then just "ehhh... I'm Ugly, I'll burn down the Local 7-11".

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.




Except that all the others are effectively powerless to stop him.

Why??

Why do you ASSUME that the evil ones have to be the most powerful??

Why could the Superman-esque kid from Kansas with a strong moral code be the Uber one??

And from the few that can; some might join him, others would just avoid him and a couple might oppose him but ultimately not before the damage is done. SO your assuming again a major numerical advantage for the criminals AND that noone's going to bother getting their act together until it's too late??

Instead of the two towers it would be all of the state of New York.

And it would be better under your plan.... how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Not enough to compensate for the powers being criminals. Also this only works for the blatant criminals but what about the others who aren't so blunt, well I'll just TK this over here or slip in invisible or teleport it away while its on a truck etc...and so on.

SO now your assuming ALL (or even most) mutents are going to be criminals just because they can?? few if any (and definatly not any STRONG ones.:rolleyes: ) are going to be cops or army men or whatever out of a sense of nobility, or justice or whatever??

And for the non-blatent/distructive types, that's what we have detectives for. Mutent apprehentors wouldn't even be nessisary.

Or maybe those criminals simply avoid the super cops when they can and still manage to be practically unstoppable. Whats the best way to deal with the flame projecting cop? Simply not be on the same side of the city as him.

Which is why he'd have to be one the fast responce team, sure, but that's what yyou've got him for is dealing with other muties.

What about the super criminals that even having super powered police aren't going to stop?

What about Having Super cops that no criminal can avoid/stop??

Assuming the undefendable works bothways.

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Per battle maybe but once one side wins and has somebody else to concentrate on?

Once one side or the other starts thowing around High end destruction, I'm betting mutal extinction before one side or the other becomes too dominate.
(unless they're the only side with it.)

What happens when the mob starts getting supers?

You'll need the Super cops.

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...



Many of whom will also be in the criminals side, because they will be criminals if only petty ones.

Again. That's cynical. Why would you assume they would be thieves??



Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program.

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

Well; they aren't going to get better numbers and the tech is basically real world tech so thats limited.

Why?? Why are everybody becoming criminals??

And real world tech doesn't allow for mutents on the level we're talking, if mutents are allowed I'm betting Super science shows up next...
But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

Basically yeah, a hundred thousand or so in every state, most being like spiderman level in general capacity, about three hundred or so being like rogue and about four or five being magneto and ice man per state seems like a decent estimate.

Then why are there not that many in Marvel?? Spiderman-Rouge levels are apperently quite rare, as there are only so many of them around. (and they all seem inexpicably drawn to NY city. ;) )

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.




We can't but eventually somebody will, remember since we only need one to ever go bad its inevitable to happen.

But one bad will not be the be all and end all. Did the world exterminate all White people because of Hitler?? All the Blacks because of malcom X?? all the Middle easterners because of Osma bin Laden??

No, because the reconized them as abbaritions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.




Yep; but if a couple of those crips or bloods are carrying a nuke, things are going to get ugly.
Your mixing my points here.

Here the point was "All other things being equal Old eductated people beat Young and stupid".

[The Dog]

The problem with most of the views in this thread is that your using a cynical view of the world. I mean sure, there will be some people who will follow the path of darkness, and some of those people will be pretty powerful. But that doesn't mean that they all will though. Some of the good guys will be pretty powerful too.

The world is full of those who commit evil for profit, for beliefs, for their treatment, for the reason they just feel like it. But there are those who do good because of their upbringing, their own sense of moral code, or for profit :rolleyes: .

People are a strange breed, for the way we think, act, and feel. And even if we gain mutant powers, we will be the same way.

Sure, there will be those who wish to do evil and harm others with their gifts, but then there are those who will do good.

Remember that.

[yeoman]

The opposite actually. If everything was fair and equal there would be no need for the Xavier/Martin Luther King types due to there being no struggle, you will more than likely have average people and not super honorable types.

There won't be a struggle at all under the opposite plan. Because All mutants will be criminals and locked up. By Xavier types I mean those who are altruestic and supporting Mutants and baseline humans living together.

[Knightosis]

Dark Beast. Last mutant I want running around unchecked. Same with
Sabertooth.

[Trystenn]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? though if people did have powers, i seriously doubt that there would be a WW3 (or4) because of it.

[The MunchKING]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? though if people did have powers, i seriously doubt that there would be a WW3 (or4) because of it.
So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)

[Trystenn]

So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)
Youd better believe it buddy, but what if i get a lame power like Skin?

[The Dog]

So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)

No, that'd be me MunchKING. Say hello to the KING OF THE SPANDEX BRIGADE!

I hope I get classic Juggernaut or Wolverine's powers, but I'd be cool with anything but Toad's.

[The MunchKING]

Youd better believe it buddy, but what if i get a lame power like Skin?
Then you'd want your spandex to cover it up??

[The MunchKING]

No, that'd be me MunchKING. Say hello to the KING OF THE SPANDEX BRIGADE!

I hope I get classic Juggernaut or Wolverine's powers, but I'd be cool with anything but Toad's.
Me now, I wouldn't be caught Undead in Spandex...

[Chuckg]

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

Jared's leaving out the parts of his plan where the government would not only register mutants at birth, but forcibly resettle all 'possibly dangerous mutants' -- which is the same thing as saying *every* mutant -- away from living near other people.

IOW, the camps.

But that's Jared for you -- always leaving out half the truth.

[Gideon Quinn]

I think that the most moral solution would be to let them police themselves.

[Revan]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><

[The MunchKING]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><
Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...

[blackdragon6]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? .
well then that goes back to the CAPTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH MAN statement

[Gideon Quinn]

Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...Malcolm X was misguided in his early methods, but was not evil. Idi Amin on the other hand.....

[The MunchKING]

Malcom X was misguided, but not evil. Idi Amin on the other hand.....
I've never heard of.

[Gideon Quinn]

I've never heard of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin

[En Sabah Nur]

There won't be a struggle at all under the opposite plan. Because All mutants will be criminals and locked up. By Xavier types I mean those who are altruestic and supporting Mutants and baseline humans living together.

If that is your difinition then tons of people will be Xavier types if they live in peace with humans or in turmoil, but by my definition they are the few who see the struggle and rise up to lead the good against evil.

In your case there should be no Magneto types, but the Apocalypse type is still a threat. I would have all mutants monitored to prevent this.

I don't know where you guys get this idea that I want every mutant "With a number burned into their forehead." That ain't me. I want to simply keep an eye on a potential threat and the moment they snap have them aprehended and put into some special type of prison.

[Revan]

Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...


i suppose of all the black spokesmen he is the "less nice" one.


but he wasnt a murdering scumbucket like hitler and osama are/were.
nor did he actually hate white people, to my knowledge. but more the corrupt racist white goverment/police that were against the black cummunity at that time.

and yes, edi amin is a much better choice:)

[Gideon Quinn]

special type of prison.Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

[blackdragon6]

i do belive the mutants with earth shatering powers will be rare

[En Sabah Nur]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><

Who did this? I compared him to Magneto earlier before his pilgrimage to Mecca where he saw that peace can be found together with all men.

[Revan]

wouldnt monitoring mutants be unethical and a sign of distrust?
if the goverment would be caught with doing somthing like that, it would not bode well at all.

[PRC4Eva]

Does anyone else see the thrid world countries (Mideast, China, N. Korea, etc) benefiting from real world mutants? These countries often have kickass propaganda programs. In some cases (Mideast probably) u probably have "If they're not with us, we should kill the infidels" drilled in their heads from an early age.

Just what the world needs eh? Wolverines and Juggernauts as terrorists.

[Jared]

Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man, Blob or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?

Could people at least try to have a debate without restarting the "Nazi!" Chorus?

[The MunchKING]

i suppose of all the black spokesmen he is the "less nice" one.


but he wasnt a murdering scumbucket like hitler and osama are/were.

I thought he burned buildings and led violent riots...

I knew he wasn't an organized Mass murder, but that wasn't really my point.

nor did he actually hate white people, to my knowledge. but more the corrupt racist white goverment/police that were against the black cummunity at that time.

Really?? I never heard that he made that distinction.

and yes, edi amin is a much better choice:)
I refer you to my earlier statement on why I didn't pick him. ;)

[Revan]

Who did this? I compared him to Magneto earlier before his pilgrimage to Mecca where he saw that peace can be found together with all men.

aye i didnt mean you mate heh.

[The MunchKING]

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man, Blob or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?
Yeah, that was overreacting...

[Gideon Quinn]

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.

[En Sabah Nur]

Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

A maximum security meathuman prison, not a death camp, but a place where they can be reformed and if worse comes to worse be locked up for life.

[Ramz]

any mutie that whines because they are a mutie would feel my wrath.


I would be lovin it if I had mutie powers.... accept if I was a morlock style mutie... then I'd be fucking burnt hard.

[The MunchKING]

The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.
Wasn't that what I said??

Although the "Baseline" cops could take in any criminals they can handle...

[Gideon Quinn]

A maximum security meathuman prison, not a death camp, but a place where they can be reformed and if worse comes to worse be locked up for life.Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.

[Jared]

The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.


What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?

[The MunchKING]

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.
Where will they stick them once they have "policed themselves" and caught him??

Or should they kill the criminal rather than stick him in the hands of a flatliner??

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?
actually thats a good solution

[The MunchKING]

actually thats a good solution
That only Mutents can have anything to do with Mutents?? you know the logistics problems?? Much less sociological problems??

[En Sabah Nur]

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.

You know you actually have to have somewhere to put them after they "police themselves" right? My end leads from your end, but the one who needs to explain is you, how exactly do they police themselves?

Your idea seems like segragation to me, and we all know that never works. The mutants due to their greater abilities would make things not equal, it is like some of you guys are giving mutants passes for things normal humans would not be able to recieve.

[Gideon Quinn]

What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?
Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no. It will only make them angry as a group.

Where will they stick them once they have "policed themselves" and caught him??

Or should they kill the criminal rather than stick him in the hands of a flatliner??
Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

[Gideon Quinn]

You know you actually have to have somewhere to put them after they "police themselves" right? My end leads from your end, but the one who needs to explain is you, how exactly do they police themselves?That is for them to decide. Or did you just think they were going to dick around and let things get ugly?

[The MunchKING]

Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no. It will only make them angry as a group.


Depends on the mutent.

Pryo wasn't bullet proof. Mysyque, toad, MOST Marvel mutents aren't bullet proof.

Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

Depends on the tech, and the Mutents being apprehended.

[The MunchKING]

That is for them to decide. Or did you just think they were going to dick around and let things get ugly?
SO they're going to make their own rules?? set themselves above humanity??

Oh great... another Divas Mal here...

[Gideon Quinn]

Depends on the mutent.

Pryo wasn't bullet proof. Mysyque, toad, MOST Marvel mutents aren't bullet proof.



Depends on the tech, and the Mutents being apprehended."Equipped" is connotative to imply their powers.

[The MunchKING]

"Equipped" is connotative to imply their powers.
What I meant was a police man can arrest your ordinary levels of Mutents...

[Gideon Quinn]

SO they're going to make their own rules?? set themselves above humanity??

Oh great... another Divas Mal here...
The United States of America lets other countries make their own rules without interfering (as long as it does not interfere with the security of the nation). The principle of nations and individuals or even groups is no different. There will always be bad eggs, but that does not mean that the entire carton is bad.

[Jared]

Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no.

>The answer depends entirely on the abilties of the particular mutant.


It will only make them angry as a group.


Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

So if, say Toad was commiting a crime, you'd say that flatscan law enforcement shouldn't even attempt to stop him? Standard procedure for any mutant incident would be to wait for friendly supers to show up? Do you realize how stupid that is?

[Gideon Quinn]

So if, say Toad was commiting a crime, you'd say that flatscan law enforcement shouldn't even attempt to stop him? Standard procedure for any mutant incident would be to wait for friendly supers to show up? Do you realize how stupid that is?You seem to be trying to hit me every chance you get. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Toad? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Magneto? No. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a bank robber? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a psychopath in an army tank? No.

[The MunchKING]

The United States of America lets other countries make their own rules without interfering (as long as it does not interfere with the security of the nation). The principle of nations and individuals or even groups is no different. There will always be bad eggs, but that does not mean that the entire carton is bad.
There is a difference between "France can make it's own rules" and "american sdecendents of french immagrents can ignore America's laws".

[The MunchKING]

You seem to be trying to hit me every chance you get. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Toad? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Magneto? No. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a bank robber? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a psychopath in an army tank? No.


Thus, it depends on the mutent involved, NOT on some simple "mutents should be the only ones allowed to deal with mutents."

[Gideon Quinn]

There is a difference between "France can make it's own rules" and "american sdecendents of french immagrents can ignore America's laws".
Except that not all of them are breaking the law of the land. They are voluntarily taking a stand in trying to save society by policing themselves in an attempt to prevent a disaster that may or may not happen depending upon variability of any given altercation that would have implications which could cause a macrocosmic development of hostility.

[Gideon Quinn]

"mutents should be the only ones allowed to deal with mutents."I never directly said that. Quit using the strawman tactic against me.

[The MunchKING]

Except that not all of them are breaking the law of the land. They are voluntarily taking a stand in trying to save society by policing themselves in an attempt to prevent a disaster that may or may not happen depending upon variability of any given altercation that would have implications which could cause a macrocosmic development of hostility.


But the point is Mutents would HAVE to be answerable to the same people flatlines are, ultimatly. WHoever the duly appointed goverment people are. Mundane or Mutent. There's a difference between "Mutents can and should be encouraged to join the police so they can stop Jugg/Magneto types" and "Mutents are answerable only to other Mutents"

[The MunchKING]

I never directly said that. Quit using the strawman tactic against me.
Well, then, if you Didn't directly say it, you implied it with this post...

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.
Your saying, they can't have prisions run by baselines. Mutents are answerable only to the other Mutents that are "policing " them. What the Local Police cheif thinks is none of their buisness and he can keep his nose out of it.

[Gideon Quinn]

Well, then, if you Didn't directly say it, you implied it with this post... And you are implying that you would rather have fascism.....at least that is what it seems. I thought you would support me here....but I was wrong.

[The MunchKING]

And you are implying that you would rather have fascism.....at least that is what it seems. I thought you would support me here....but I was wrong.
Fascism??

I said they should be answerable to the law like anyoneelse...

[Gideon Quinn]

Fascism??

I said they should be answerable to the law like anyoneelse...Your law it seems. You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.

[The MunchKING]

Your law it seems.

That's why I said they should be answerable to the properly elected officers?

You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.
There's a difference.

I'm saying if they want to police themselves, join the police department. That's what it's there for. They DON't get to de' facto declare their independence from America. (or whatever country they live in.)

[En Sabah Nur]

Your law it seems. You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.

He didn't imply such a thing to me. You make it sound like we don't want them to have rights period. They should answer to the athorites like we do. You want to give them better rights not equal rights or at lest that is what is being implied to me.

[Gideon Quinn]

They DON't get to de' facto declare their independence from America. (or whatever country they live in.)

Nor did I say that. I said that should police themselves. The MP's police the military. Does that make it a bit more clear?

[The MunchKING]

Nor did I say that. I said that should police themselves. The MP's police the military. Does that make it a bit more clear?
Black people, don't exclusively police Black people.

[Gideon Quinn]

Black people, don't exclusively police Black people.What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?

[The Dog]

Ok, everyone calm down. Let me try and put this best I can from the posts.

What The Manchurian Candidate is saying is that the mutants should be able to police themselves because they are better equipt to take on other mutants. I see his point.

What MunchKING is saying is that if they want to police, they should join the cops like the flatliners, and help them police everyone, mutant AND mundane alike. Good point.

You two are just spiralling out of control with accusations and such.

[The MunchKING]

What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?
You would perfer the term "speceist"???

[En Sabah Nur]

What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?

I don't think so Manns. The thing is the MP and Military are organizations who answer to the US government.

Mutants policing mutants answer to no one and are basically vigilanties and independent of our control when on our soil.

[Gideon Quinn]

What The Manchurian Candidate is saying is that the mutants should be able to police themselves because they are better equipt to take on other mutants. I see his point.

Bingo.

*character limit*

[Celisasu]

So any bets on when this thread gets locked.....again?

[The MunchKING]

So any bets on when this thread gets locked.....again?
Ehhh... sorry...

[The Dog]

You just need to remember to keep things nice and civil...

But don't sweat it, everyone gets unruly at times, even me...

Everyone: Even?

Alright, ESPECIALLY ME!

[The MunchKING]

You just need to remember to keep things nice and civil...

But don't sweat it, everyone gets unruly at times, even me...

Everyone: Even?

Alright, ESPECIALLY ME!Dang skippy...

[blackdragon6]

i also think mutants should police themselves


*runs off and hide*

[yeoman]

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

You also wanted potentially dangerous mutants kept seperate for the safty of the rest of humanity and to be carfully watched.

IOW, you wanted Days of Future Past without having to admit that you did. You're either a liar or a fool.


Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

Funny, your post was all three.

[Slayven]

man this thread grew with a quickness

[StrawNilla]

If we were to let Magneto police himself he'd harm no one. The only reason Magneto became evil was because the world wouldn't accept him and leave him alone. Heck, if we're lucky, we could sway Magneto to protect the humans under the stipulation that ALL mutants can police themselves.

This way, mutants who overstepped their boundaries would have to answer to Magneto, and we all know who successful other mutants have been in doing so.

[Slayven]

true, mags while on genosha didn't bother anyone

[Slayven]

i also think mutants should police themselves


*runs off and hide*
who will police the police? especially now that Sting is up in years?

[blackdragon6]

man this thread grew with a quicknessyeah i'm quit proud of my self :)

[blackdragon6]

people also gotta keep in mind there probably won't be ALOT of mutants with earth shattering powers.and most of the rest aren't trained super spies and assassins unlike in the comics.

[The MunchKING]

man this thread grew with a quickness
Cause I was here, natch.

[Z-man]

You really can't apply real world political theories point blank to superhero topics.

After all, looking at their political positions, you would expect Chuck to support the Authority and Sam to oppose the book.

But that's clearly not the case.

And, for that matter, who's to say that mutants would be an equality issue and not a gun control one?

[AntiThesis]

not that i think its right or anything but i'm fairly certain if mutants appeared governments and many other organizations would attempt to actively exterminate them unless an extremely powerful and effective method of control was developed. The sort of power a mutant may excersize would be considered a huge threat by nearly every person lacking said powers. A powerful telepath however could most likely evade any persecution and probably ascend to positions of tremendous authority with ease, possibly using this power to effectively protect other mutants.

[Vaders shoeshine boy]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.


There's also the possibility of a Selene-type who actively preys on normals and mutants alike(possibly justifying the Governments Stick with nails in it-approach.

[yeoman]

The one path gets Apocolypse, plus plenty of Magnetos, and *NO* Xavier or even X-Factor types. Virtually no mutants serving law and order, if any. Most likely none and even those that did would be operating outside the law and be illegal period.

The other path gets Apocolypse, few, if any Magnetos maybe a few Xaviers and tons of X-factor types. Plus, it has the advantage of being able to sleep at night knowing you're doing the right thing.

Gee... which way to go.

[Deviant Juvenile]

And, for that matter, who's to say that mutants would be an equality issue and not a gun control one?

True. I could easily see a 'Throwing fireballs inside the city limits is illegal' type laws. However, how would the government enforce it on mutants who didn't have visible powers, ie telepaths, TK's, etc?

Also, what happens when you try to enforce the law on someone who was tossing fireballs in town, and they decide to roast the cops, because they were mad at being told no or they were drunk, or high?

I think that if mutants were to evolve into our current world, any legislation aimed at mutants /would/ start off as a gun control issue, then escalate into a registration act. It's not unthinkable. Do you know we already have a registration act? It's for people who commit capital crimes and don't get the death penalty or life in prison. Illinois, where I live, has one. It makes public the names and offenses of anyone in a community that has committed a capital crime and is now free, such as sex offenders(rapists).

And as for the issue being a 'race' issue, do you know the two prime factors(I think, I'm not quoting here) in what makes someone a racist? First, being raised in a racist family, second(this is the one that bears on the mutant issue) is having a bad experience with an individual of a certain race. Let's say someone got raped by an Asian. There is a very good chance that the victim isn't going to like Asians after that. Now, let's adapt this to the mutant issue. Let's say a mutant supporter got raped by a mutant. Chances are, that person is gonna join the other side. And most people that they talk about the incident to are gonna switch to the anti-mutant side too, I bet.

So, you see, minor control at first, then more and more harsh controls later. If this scenario were to happen, I'd say we could very likely be looking at a Magneto event, or even possibly a global species war.

Folks might call me cynical and they might be right, but to quote Xavier in X2 'Sharing the world has never been humanity's defining attribute.'

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Most poor people, and almost all minority people don't start burning stuff IRL. They eek out there livings like everyone else. I mean there's a few ugly/poor/minority people that do that kind of thing, but they usually have some other reason then just "ehhh... I'm Ugly, I'll burn down the Local 7-11".


Most don't suddenly find themselves with the ability to do notable destruction with ease or steel hard skin or benching semi trucks either. Or the capacity to do crimes and just walk away with nobody the wiser.


Why??

Why do you ASSUME that the evil ones have to be the most powerful??

Why could the Superman-esque kid from Kansas with a strong moral code be the Uber one??

Sure he could be the most uber one; but given that only one uber needs to go bad and it doesn't have to be the most uber one, it will still be more uber than 95% of the others.

Of course; thats presuming that said guy isn't the one causing all the problems in the first place. Doubtful he'll have a no kill moral code or even a stay out of wars and such things either.



SO your assuming again a major numerical advantage for the criminals AND that noone's going to bother getting their act together until it's too late??

More criminals then cops, its kind of like with terrorists, except with no planning or resources needed with far higher destructive capability, its hard to get your act together to stop this kind of thing.

And it would be better under your plan.... how?


Plan? I don't have a plan this is just conceptializing here.

SO now your assuming ALL (or even most) mutents are going to be criminals just because they can?? few if any (and definatly not any STRONG ones.:rolleyes: ) are going to be cops or army men or whatever out of a sense of nobility, or justice or whatever??


Few will be; most will be average citizens, a higher amount than normal people are going to be criminals simply due to the ease of which they will be able to do it and the ability to get away with it.

And for the non-blatent/distructive types, that's what we have detectives for. Mutent apprehentors wouldn't even be nessisary.

Not much detecting to do if its teleported or tked away from a distance. Some things even having other super cops, the super criminals will be essentially unstoppable.

Which is why he'd have to be one the fast responce team, sure, but that's what yyou've got him for is dealing with other muties.



What about Having Super cops that no criminal can avoid/stop??

Assuming the undefendable works bothways.

Well; its not as much as a problem for criminals, they do it and then the cops find out about it. They get first strike advantage here and intelligent use of powers can make it so no trace is left depending on what you got. Simply put there would be some mutants that would be able to do what they do and be uncharged by the court, he