how would the real deal with the mutant issues

[blackdragon6]

yeah i'm pretty sure this has been asked before just roll with it anyway.

[nanteen]

By real you mean real world right?

If so in the beginning the govt would take these kids in and train them for their own uses.

After the first 20 or so the media would get wind and it owuld be all over the newspapers. Then Larry King would interview them. Then ENDORCEMENT DEALS out the wazoooooooooo.

And Until one of them killed someone using thier powers they would be the new celebrities of the world.

[OverMaster]

The real what? The real world? The Real Mc Coy? The Real Nemo? The Real Ghostbusters? The Real Folk Blues?






BTW, you obviously don't know what kind of flame wars boomed the last time this was asked, so yes, I'm just trying to lighten the mood before it's too late...

[yeoman]

It begins again.

*Runs away screaming.*

[AniX]

They lose their rights to marry or vote and etc. Because you know Bush hates people of different lifestyles of him. Seriously, they would pass a law allowing them to monitor mutants at all times.

[PRC4Eva]

They lose their rights to marry or vote and etc. Because you know Bush hates people of different lifestyles of him. Seriously, they would pass a law allowing them to monitor mutants at all times.
You say that like it's a bad thing...which it kinda is. But seriously, these aren't normal pepole. These are mutants. I understand the whole "we accept black people, so why not mutants" deal, but these guys differ from normal ppl a lot more than skin color.

Think about it. In Marvelverse, people share the world with millions of known mutants and who-knows-how-many more that may pop up. These mutants could do anything from fix your broken TV to ignite everything within a 2 mile radius. The question you ask is: do you really want to live surrounded by people like that? If a mutant's power suddenly popped and killed someone I know, what would I do?

[StoneGold]

How would Evander Holyfield deal with mutants? Probably beat them up like everyone else.


Hey, remember the last time we did this and everyone hated Jared?

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

under our current post 9/11 administration i feel sorry for anybody born with a few extra toes let alone mutant powers

[UncleBob]

How would Evander Holyfield deal with mutants? Probably beat them up like everyone else.


Hey, remember the last time we did this and everyone hated Jared?

From Subway?

[blackdragon6]

The real what? The real world? The Real Mc Coy? The Real Nemo? The Real Ghostbusters? The Real Folk Blues?






BTW, you obviously don't know what kind of flame wars boomed the last time this was asked, so yes, I'm just trying to lighten the mood before it's too late...
yes i mean the real world............were adults here we can debate contructively

[nanteen]

Lets be honest here. The Govt would try and crack down. Monitoring, ankle braclets, etc...

But since people find out they are mutants when they are what 11-15 I would have to say all hell would break loose.

If think Columbine was bad take the poor beat up outcast of your high schools and give him the ability to set things on fire by looking at them.
:(

After a couple years and a few coup attemps I am thinking the govet would come up with some kind of DNA test and have FORCED administering of this test at birth or soon after and probably kill those children. For the betterment of mankind of course.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

After a couple years and a few coup attemps I am thinking the govet would come up with some kind of DNA test and have FORCED administering of this test at birth or soon after and probably kill those children. For the betterment of mankind of course.
even under the current administration i doubt that would happen.

HOWEVER the whole tracking device thing might not be that far off though.......

[StoneGold]

From Subway?
If he is, he hasn't mentioned it. He has aids you know.


Anyways, Jared from here. One of the posters. Has ChuckG on ignore. Said the anti-mutie people had it right, people got all pissy about it.

[nanteen]

even under the current administration i doubt that would happen.

HOWEVER the whole tracking device thing might not be that far off though.......

I have nothing against the current administration. I voted Bush.

I never said the US govt would WANT to kill children BUT after a few Goth teens try and take over New York a few times. I am think they would be forced to do something drastic.

I am sure EVERYONE here has dreamed of having superpowers. And how many of us have thought about useing them in lets say a UNconstructive way. Now take away wisdom and empathy and you have your avarage teenager today.

Now give them the ability to toss cars around like cheetos.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I have nothing against the current administration. I voted Bush.

I never said the US govt would WANT to kill children BUT after a few Goth teens try and take over New York a few times. I am think they would be forced to do something drastic.

I am sure EVERYONE here has dreamed of having superpowers. And how many of us have thought about useing them in lets say a UNconstructive way. Now take away wisdom and empathy and you have your avarage teenager today.

Now give them the ability to toss cars around like cheetos.well then if x-men is included in our world then i'm pretty sure they would intervein or some other simuler entity

[Rabid Trekkie]

Yeah, America goes all Orwellian on everyone. Why? Because we think extinction is a good way to live.

There will be some problems but I don't think any civil rights organization would let the government get even close to thinking up the stuff all of you are saying.

Anyone in office who has half a brain will know that pissing off people (some of who have enough fire power to punk the fifth infantry and 3rd armored division combined) is not a good thing to do. The government would do everything possible to not give any potential Magneto a reason to go over the edge.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Yeah, America goes all Orwellian on everyone. Why? Because we think extinction is a good way to live.

There will be some problems but I don't think any civil rights organization would let the government get even close to thinking up the stuff all of you are saying.

Anyone in office who has half a brain will know that pissing off people (some of who have enough fire power to punk the fifth infantry and 3rd armored division combined) is not a good thing to do. The government would do everything possible to not give any potential Magneto a reason to go over the edge.thats what i'm saying......though it isn't the whole goverment i'm worried about just certain groups of people within the goverment whom have power

[En Sabah Nur]

The government itself would do everything in its power to have complete control over a potential and more than likely probable threat.

As for my reaction if I am still on the human side when all this happens I will say these new beings should be managed by any means. People use the term "race" to differintiate between the variations of the human race due to migration thousands of years ago, so using "If you accept blacks, why not mutant?" is not going to cut it due to Mutants actually being a different race or species than humans.

If I were a mutant I would do evrything in my power to keep my freedom if it were in jepordy. I would try to keep to myself and stay out of touble sort of like I do now, but if they come at me I will fiercely defend myself like now.

It is all a matter of perspective with me.

[StoneGold]

Thing is, mutants, as portrayed in the Marvel Universe, are no more a race than midgets or albinos. They have no unifying genetic traits. Hell, they can't even keep genetics stable inside of families. You want to tell me how Magneto had a speedster and a reality manipulator for kids, and a completly normal granddaughter? Unless the true characteristic of Homo Superior is complete and total genetic instability, mutants are not their own race or species.

[The Dog]

Mutants can be good or evil as in everyone else, the problem is mutants can throw about tanks like wads of paper and rip through the fifth infiltry like tissue.

There should be SOME limits, not total Orwellian 1984 or anything, just to know who's a mutant and who's normal and keep a little extra watch on them, because they do have amazing powers.

And if the government is smart, they keep a group of secret special mutants in case one of the civilian mutants goes Magneto.

And the ostricized teens, the Goths, the Geeks, the Aloners, and any others who would be slated into a life of mental and physical abuse would more than like do it.

And if I were a mutant, I would more than likely fight if my family, friends, or myself came into danger. And if need be, these other theoretical mutants would too, and it would be called an attack against those considered normal, no matter the circumstances.

Because people, no matter how much they say they aren't, ARE a little weary to those who are different from themselves.

And mutants are about as different as possible.

[Rabid Trekkie]

The government itself would do everything in its power to have complete control over a potential and more than likely probable threat.

As for my reaction if I am still on the human side when all this happens I will say these new beings should be managed by any means. People use the term "race" to differintiate between the variations of the human race due to migration thousands of years ago, so using "If you accept blacks, why not mutant?" is not going to cut it due to Mutants actually being a different race or species than humans.

If I were a mutant I would do evrything in my power to keep my freedom if it were in jepordy. I would try to keep to myself and stay out of touble sort of like I do now, but if they come at me I will fiercely defend myself like now.

It is all a matter of perspective with me.

This is what I have a problem with. They are still people, it is the equivalent of us going and placing a tracking device on every muslim person, or anyone of arab descent because the rest of us non muslim and non arab happen to be the majority.

Not only is this wrong on all sorts of moral levels, I mean after all we would be making a huge leap here to target a whole group because they are different, but it doesn't make any sense.

Oh sure if we piss off a group of Sammy the Squid Boys then no problem, but if we (and by this I mean government) discriminate against even two Magneto's were doomed. So even if the moral side of the argument doesn't persuade you, your own sense of survival should.

[Jagatai_Khan]

yeah i'm pretty sure this has been asked before just roll with it anyway.

All of the following would happen at once:

1) Instant celebrities. Anybody nice/good looking/personable with superpowers becomes a freaking media icon.

2) Hated and feared. Any mutants that are remotely scarey and/or amoral are hunted, arrested, both, and probably kill lots of people as they defend themselves from overzealous cops. Or they die. Or they use thier powers to run away and never get caught, and live out thier lives in hiding in some remote Tibetan village.

3) Religious upheaval: Very quickly some mutants will realize the money to be made in being religious charlatans, and they'll start cults/televangelism shows/pyramid schemes with thier powers. You thought Benny Hinn was bad? What if a mutant like him could actually heal people, instead of just hiring actors to. You'd have a new major world religion overnight, with uncountable sums of money flowing into that guy's pockets.

4) Political takeover: Mutant use thier powers to get elected/appointed/coup thier way into power. They then rule.

5) Weapons of Mass Destruction: Mutant + Radical Extreme Islam = Bad.

6) Booty: Some of the mutants are bound to be the sort with Slayven's mindset. And have superpowers/mind-powers. Guess what happens.

[En Sabah Nur]

Thing is, mutants, as portrayed in the Marvel Universe, are no more a race than midgets or albinos. They have no unifying genetic traits. Hell, they can't even keep genetics stable inside of families. You want to tell me how Magneto had a speedster and a reality manipulator for kids, and a completly normal granddaughter? Unless the true characteristic of Homo Superior is complete and total genetic instability, mutants are not their own race or species.

You have a point they are mutations in human genes. I simply remeber their names being (homo sapian superior or homo superior) this would imply that they are a different species, but they don't have idetifiable traits, after all it is the "X-Factor" gne that seperates them from us, but still they would have to be controlled and contained somehow.

Seriously, would you like an angsty teen to have that much uncontrolled power or worse yet someone like me.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

5) Weapons of Mass Destruction: Mutant + Radical Extreme Islam = Bad.

.
now this is scary.........no mater what Radical Extreme group its applied too

[StoneGold]

Seriously, would you like an angsty teen to have that much uncontrolled power or worse yet someone like me.
Never mind that, you want to see the real danger? Go read that issue of Ultimate X-Men where Wolverine was sent in to kill that kid.

[En Sabah Nur]

This is what I have a problem with. They are still people, it is the equivalent of us going and placing a tracking device on every muslim person, or anyone of arab descent because the rest of us non muslim and non arab happen to be the majority.

Not only is this wrong on all sorts of moral levels, I mean after all we would be making a huge leap here to target a whole group because they are different, but it doesn't make any sense.

Oh sure if we piss off a group of Sammy the Squid Boys then no problem, but if we (and by this I mean government) discriminate against even two Magneto's were doomed. So even if the moral side of the argument doesn't persuade you, your own sense of survival should.

You are right about certain individuals snaping and becoming Magnetoesq, but if humans put any restrants on someof the mutant that would come to be they would see it as a violation of heir rights and would go apeshit anyway, however if you don't place some restaints on mutants a lot of them ill run wild. Sort of like Marvel earth when you think of it.

Morals don't really come into play over I and my loved ones survival.

[lonewolf23k]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, when the Carrot and Stick approach would work much better.

Instead of just rounding up anyone remotely looking like a mutant, just arrange for a goverment "mutant education and service" program.. Essentially, what Ultimate X-Men showed Xavier and SHIELD doing after they went through the whole "Ultimate War" deal.

Only I see it happening much sooner, without a "government-organized pogrom on mutants"... Which I frankly don't see happening unless there's a mutant equivalent to 9/11. And if that happens, I can see a lot of mutants volonteering to help put down the mutant who did it.

[StoneGold]

Of course, here's the real problem with controlling the mutant population:
http://superherohype.com/gallery/The_Incredibles/Movie_Stills/shhjackfront.jpg
It has to be political suicide to put down Jack Jack.

[Rabid Trekkie]

You are right about certain individuals snaping and becoming Magnetoesq, but if humans put any restrants on someof the mutant that would come to be they would see it as a violation of heir rights and would go apeshit anyway, however if you don't place some restaints on mutants a lot of them ill run wild. Sort of like Marvel earth when you think of it.

Morals don't really come into play over I and my loved ones survival.

That is why we don't treat them any differently than we treat people now. New laws would have to be passed to deal with telepaths but that is about it.

If two guys get into a bar fight and one is a mutant with the same strength as Colossus and the flatscan is attacking him then if he just breaks the guys arm that is within the boundry of self defense, no crime done. However if he punches through the flatscan's head then that is manslaughter, just as it would be if it would be a normal person intentionally breaking the neck of another normal in a fight.

If the mutants see that we are treating them as we treat normal people there would be a lot less of a chance of any problems.

[MKTerra]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, when the Carrot and Stick approach would work much better.Cynicism/pessimism/realism/what-have-you.

[Phrozen]

The problem is that in the real world you are going to have mutations that are detrimental to the survivability of the mutant, evolution doesn't always work in the positive direction. Oh, and the person talking about people born with extra digits? Happens all the time, they are usually surgically removed at birth.

[yeoman]

If he is, he hasn't mentioned it. He has aids you know.


Anyways, Jared from here. One of the posters. Has ChuckG on ignore. Said the anti-mutie people had it right, people got all pissy about it.

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

[yeoman]

You say that like it's a bad thing...which it kinda is. But seriously, these aren't normal pepole. These are mutants. I understand the whole "we accept black people, so why not mutants" deal, but these guys differ from normal ppl a lot more than skin color.

Think about it. In Marvelverse, people share the world with millions of known mutants and who-knows-how-many more that may pop up. These mutants could do anything from fix your broken TV to ignite everything within a 2 mile radius. The question you ask is: do you really want to live surrounded by people like that? If a mutant's power suddenly popped and killed someone I know, what would I do?

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

But if you treat mutants like actual human beings, you greatly reduce the chance of that happening.

And that's just from a logical point fo view. From the point of view of anyone with a soul treating mutants like people is actually the *right* thing to do.

[Rabid Trekkie]

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

It wasn't like they were shot on the street, just tucked away in prison camps in the middle of Death Valley and quickly forgotten for the crime of just being different.

Just a slight difference.

[En Sabah Nur]

That is why we don't treat them any differently than we treat people now. New laws would have to be passed to deal with telepaths but that is about it.

If two guys get into a bar fight and one is a mutant with the same strength as Colossus and the flatscan is attacking him then if he just breaks the guys arm that is within the boundry of self defense, no crime done. However if he punches through the flatscan's head then that is manslaughter, just as it would be if it would be a normal person intentionally breaking the neck of another normal in a fight.

If the mutants see that we are treating them as we treat normal people there would be a lot less of a chance of any problems.

Optimism. As The Dog stated mutants are both good and evil like humans. Do you for one second think that A LOT of people would be as nice as they are now if they were granted superhuman powers?

It is human nature to want to be better than the next person, some can over come this while others can't. We can try the "You are one of us aproach, but some power-hungry people will easily take advantage of this. As to the bar fight thing, if a person with Colossus level srength realisticaly taps someone with their finger they would be in coma at least an more than likely dead. It can't be self defense when the person who started the trouble can't harm you, it would be like a bodybuilder fighting a new born baby, but widen the gap dramatically.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Yeah; if we do this "realistically" are we including our laws of nature?

If so; anyone with extreme amounts of super strength like say Hulk would be causing all sorts of natural disasters simply by existing, the merest of twitches causing tornadoes and shockwave kind of thing.

Also one of the things people are talking about is if the goth or extrovert gets uber powers.

Go the opposite direction; what happens when the prep's, jocks and bitch queens of the teen segment get ahold of them, they already think of themselves as being superior to everybody else, natural teen tendencies but what happens when their right and nobody can stop them?

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I don't see why everyone always assumes the US Government's going to take the Stick with a Nail approach on the Mutant Issue, .
mostly cause anything to the contrary is just wishful thinking

[Rabid Trekkie]

Optimism. As The Dog stated mutants are both good and evil like humans. Do you for one second think that A LOT of people would be as nice as they are now if they were granted superhuman powers?

It is human nature to want to be better than the next person, some can over come this while others can't. We can try the "You are one of us aproach, but some power-hungry people will easily take advantage of this. As to the bar fight thing, if a person with Colossus level srength realisticaly taps someone with their finger they would be in coma at least an more than likely dead. It can't be self defense when the person who started the trouble can't harm you, it would be like a bodybuilder fighting a new born baby, but widen the gap dramatically.

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Cynicism/pessimism/realism/what-have-you.oh and what he said too

[En Sabah Nur]

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

But if you treat mutants like actual human beings, you greatly reduce the chance of that happening.

And that's just from a logical point fo view. From the point of view of anyone with a soul treating mutants like people is actually the *right* thing to do.

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Of course even Xavier is willing to mind wipe whole groups of people if he feels that them knowing something is possible detrimental.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.


Well; thats part of the whole "real world" thing, it even adds more debate to the question.
After all many of them, the senile, mentally deficient and those with basically uncontrollable powers are going to cause untold damage on a huge scale.
Extreme natural disasters every day would become pretty much happenstance.

[En Sabah Nur]

Yeah optimism, I go from periods of thinking that any human would step over another human dying without giving it a second thought and periods of believing that there is hope for humanity. After all the aid given to those affected by the tsunami I am currently in a period of hope.

Yes, I don't think suddenly getting a ton of power is going to change who someone is. You don't go from Xavier to Magneto over night no matter what happens to you.

Some will try to take advantage, but there will also be there to stand up for what is right. Human and mutant alike.

If you noticed I said the man being attacked has Colossus' strength, not his durability. And said person can control their powers otherwise every time they would pick up a glass it would shatter or turn a dial and it would fly off.

You make it sound like the good would greatly out number the bad, and given the fact that a person is Marvel class 100 they naturally have to have enough durability to suport what they can lift. A punch from a normal human against someone like that would hardly register.

Anywayyou cut it there will be conflict of some sort that's life, but with people of this power level the damage could be extremely high.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Oh, and the person talking about people born with extra digits? Happens all the time, they are usually surgically removed at birth.
i was being sarcastic

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Anywayyou cut it there will be conflict of some sort that's life, but with people of this power level the damage could be extremely high.we know this already the question was how would our world handle it

[The Dog]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

But remember, for every Magneto or Apocalypse that arises, there will be an Xavier or mutant-powered Martin Luther King Jr. who wants peaceful equality.

And Rexamus Grumbo has a point. What would happen if the jock/popular/teen queen bitch got powers? They already have a superiority complex to begin with, but adding powers is just fueling the flames.

If both sides of the teen spectrum had powers, I believe it would cause a full-scale war that would wipe out many of them, as well as cities and normal people.

So the "Teens get Mutant Powers" thing would most likely end in war.

[Rabid Trekkie]

You make it sound like the good would greatly out number the bad,

I'm not expecting a hundred Ghandi's to come up and fight for what is right, I do however expect just some good and decent people. There were enough on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania that they were able to over power those with weapons.

There are still people who will not let others be harmed if they can help it, will even sacrifice themselves to try to make sure another will live. Sure there may not be many but I'm, betting there are more people like that than there are evil people.

[En Sabah Nur]

we know this already the question was how would our world handle it

Yes, I know, but just about anything you can think of will be a double edged sword.

I honestly think the government would go at it with bans and limitations and that would cause envy from the mutants which will cause problems for us.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

I'm not expecting a hundred Ghandi's to come up and fight for what is right, I do however expect just some good and decent people. There were enough on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania that they were able to over power those with weapons.

There are still people who will not let others be harmed if they can help it, will even sacrifice themselves to try to make sure another will live. Sure there may not be many but I'm, betting there are more people like that than there are evil people.

The problem is; many people will simply become corrupt more than out and out evil, after all once you can tell the law to go screw itself, being a law abiding citizen becomes a low priority if they can't enforce it.

Basically if you can, cheat, steal etc...without ever worried about being punished or apprehended in someway, you'll probably start doing whatever you want, well the pettier stuff, not saying everyone becomes a killer or a rapist, but being a thief would probably become extremely likely.

Its like if you can become invisible or us TK to steal without leaving behind any clues or traces of even being there.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

if the x-men exist in our world surely things wouldn't get too out of hand,but would the goverment allow a mercenary group like the x-men to exist?

[En Sabah Nur]

The problem is; many people will simply become corrupt more than out and out evil, after all once you can tell the law to go screw itself, being a law abiding citizen becomes a low priority if they can't enforce it.

Basically if you can, cheat, steal etc...without ever worried about being punished or apprehended in someway, you'll probably start doing whatever you want, well the pettier stuff, not saying everyone becomes a killer or a rapist, but being a thief would probably become extremely likely.

Its like if you can become invisible or us TK to steal without leaving behind any clues or traces of even being there.

Exactly. People obey the law because they fear the onsequences in most cases, but take away that fear and what do you have?

These would also be the people who would follow the Magntos and Apocalypses.

[Charagon]

For every mutant with a god-complex there will be several government funded mutants there to stop them.


Crazy druggy gets in a bad break up and starts setting things on fire, his temperature controlling neighbor can put him on ice.



The only thing that changes is the scale of power. The actions remain the same.

[The Watcher]

I was tempted to close this thread to preemptively prevent what happened on the Pre-Crisis version of this thread from happening again, but I"m going to err on the side of tolerance for now.

Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil so I won't have to rethink my stance.

And CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD, your one post making vulgar assertions about fellow posters was uncalled for. Expect some form of discipinary action to be taken against you for it.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

would the goverment allow a mercenary group like the x-men to exist?
you know even for the marvel universe i was kinda iffy about this the goverment just wouldn't allow this,i might be wrong though.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

And CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD, your one post making vulgar assertions about fellow posters was uncalled for. Expect some form of discipinary action to be taken against you for it.is it from them or you!?....if its from you the punishment would be easier to swallow.no pun intended seriously

[The Watcher]

is it from them or you!?....if its from you the punishment would be easier to swallow.no pun intended seriouslyFrome me. It's very likely the posters in question had not even seen the offending post.

You will be informed by email about the length of the sentence after it begins.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

Frome me. It's very likely the posters in question had not even seen the offending post.

You will be informed by email about the length of the sentence after it begins.
fair enough............

[Jared]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.
interesting

[Rexamus Grumbo]

For every mutant with a god-complex there will be several government funded mutants there to stop them.


Crazy druggy gets in a bad break up and starts setting things on fire, his temperature controlling neighbor can put him on ice.



The only thing that changes is the scale of power. The actions remain the same.


The problem is it would probably be vis-a-versa, for every mutant working with the goverment there would be hundreds doing there own thing.

For that matter; many could break the law without people ever being aware they broke the law.

The problem seems for this to be affective than the goverment would have to start becoming corrupt, use telepaths to read the minds of american citizens and do the ultimate violation, mind control, phone called threats to deal with people they know but can't actually prove anything on and etc...

Also what happens when some of the crazies in goverment get their hands on some mutants?

You know I hate to say it but the whole dark future seems almost inevitable, maybe not to the extent that Future Days Past was but still pretty dark, even if no-one around at that time realizes it.

Kind of like that charmed episode in the "good" verse where even minor transgressions were getting amputations, aside from that it was a utopia.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=920&highlight=Mutant+Registration


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1322&highlight=Mutant+Registration

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=337872

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=18143&highlight=mutant+registration

On this board, rational discourse of this subject has proven to be just about as impossible as well...just about anything. Good thing nobody really brings up stuff like abortion or Iraq anymore.you know in some ways this prooves people pesimisim about how the goverment will react to this situation.given the fact how people reacts about this issue just threw conversation alone.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Thinking about it I'm not sure society could continue; at least not civilization as we know. You would probably have tons of petty warlords or whatever claiming their territory and kicking out the goverment, back step to monarchy rule and anarchy starts coming in mad max style.

[The Dog]

Thinking about it I'm not sure society could continue; at least not civilization as we know. You would probably have tons of petty warlords or whatever claiming their territory and kicking out the goverment, back step to monarchy rule and anarchy starts coming in mad max style.

Only unlike Mad Max, these would be mutants, and the battles would be more violent and Apocolyptic.

[Jared]

From Subway?


MY NEMESIS! If there's anyone who I actually would like to see shipped off to a camp, it's that guy! Choke on your sweet chicken teriaki, you bastard!

[Rexamus Grumbo]

I just realized the problem with trying to avoid the Magneto's of the world.

You only need "one" person to go magneto and you have a walking, rechargeable atom bomb, going where it wants and doing what it wants.


Its inevitable.

[Jared]

"Got Pissy about it?" There's a reason it was called "Days of Future Jared." What was suggested made Days of Future Past look like a nice summer day in comapirson.

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

[Jared]

Only unlike Mad Max, these would be mutants, and the battles would be more violent and Apocolyptic.


But would they wear assless chaps?

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Another thing; were talking about existentially America getting mutants, what about other countries which aren't privy to our way of thinking, third world countries and the like.

What happens when every country in the world becomes nuclear power?

[The MunchKING]

And what's the alternative? Rounding them up and putting them somewhere to make everyone safe? All you do is just prove your future Magneto right.

And guess what? It ensures there will be a Magneto. A supremely powerful, charismatic and extraordinarily pissed of f at humanity mutant.

I'd like to point locking them up wouldn't make them unusually charismatic...

[The Dog]

But would they wear assless chaps?

Ok, I could see the women doing that, but the guys...

::shutters::

creepy.

[The MunchKING]

Exactly. People obey the law because they fear the onsequences in most cases, but take away that fear and what do you have?
Well THAT's cynical...

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

MY NEMESIS! If there's anyone who I actually would like to see shipped off to a camp, it's that guy! Choke on your sweet chicken teriaki, you bastard!

Indeed. They're expensive as heck, and aren't very good, either.

[The MunchKING]

I just realized the problem with trying to avoid the Magneto's of the world.

You only need "one" person to go magneto and you have a walking, rechargeable atom bomb, going where it wants and doing what it wants.


Its inevitable.

Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??

[Jared]

Another thing; were talking about existentially America getting mutants, what about other countries which aren't privy to our way of thinking, third world countries and the like.

What happens when every country in the world becomes nuclear power?

Didn't Abberrant basically do a take on that scenario? And suppossedly, Ultimates Volume 2 will as well.

Given the sheer randomness of mutations, it's quite conceivably that any country, from China to New Guinea, could end up fielding the most powerful agent in the world.

[Jared]

Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??

How well he can control his powers, for one thing. And it's not just a matter, of going nuts. Magneto isn't actually nuts, most of the time.
Even Apocalypse, just might qualify as sane.

[The MunchKING]

How well he can control his powers, for one thing. And it's not just a matter, of going nuts. Magneto isn't actually nuts, most of the time.
Even Apocalypse, just might qualify as sane.
Well OK, I didn't mean "Going Nuts" as in Batman style psychotic. I meant "going nuts" as pissed at the government and blowing shit up.

[StoneGold]

But would they wear assless chaps?
If they had asses, they wouldn't be chaps. They'd be pants.

[En Sabah Nur]

Well THAT's cynical...

That's the way I am Munchy. I don't tend to give humanity as much credit as most here. If a person were just blessed with powers you saw no one else had and there was no special restrants on the person they would walk around acting like they did before. The average person ain't that fond of the cops anyway, if you go tell them to f*ck off you wouldn't?

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Well THAT's cynical...


Not reall; its pretty accurate, like I said earlier, I don't see "the Powers" becoming rapists and killers, though that would spike, but theft and other petty crimes would rise to unimaginable levels for that group.


Well OK, I didn't mean "Going Nuts" as in Batman style psychotic. I meant "going nuts" as pissed at the government and blowing shit up.

They wouldn't even have to be pissed at the goverment to start doing that.




Not nessisarily. What makes it a Magneto level power that's going to go nuts rather than, say... Sammy the squid boy or Beak??


Well; all we need is one, only one of the uber mutants going Bin Laden on us, or magneto and that is almost a given.

Pretty much I can't see at least one of the mutants in the world that has uber power going corrupt in that manner as a possibility.


Didn't Abberrant basically do a take on that scenario? And suppossedly, Ultimates Volume 2 will as well.

Given the sheer randomness of mutations, it's quite conceivably that any country, from China to New Guinea, could end up fielding the most powerful agent in the world.


Well; I've never read the Ultimates and what I've heard about Abberrant comes from the board, so I really don't know what happened in their scenarious or if they had them.

[The MunchKING]

That's the way I am Munchy. I don't tend to give humanity as much credit as most here. If a person were just blessed with powers you saw no one else had and there was no special restrants on the person they would walk around acting like they did before.

Nobody would have... (as in me with more peacefull powers. :) )

Except he finally seemed to get a decent work ethic.

The average person ain't that fond of the cops anyway, if you go tell them to f*uck off you wouldn't?

No, I actually have great respect for the cops... I wouldn't tell them off for doing their jobs.

[nanteen]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.

Somehow I feel our cities would become war zones rather quickly.



OR on the other side we would have people taking the law into their own hands. can we say SUPER NIEGHBORHOOD WATCH COMMANDER.

:::You know bill if we could just get rid of that crack house on the corner this place would be a nice place to live:::

::Bill looks down the street and walks down and tears the building apart with his bear hands:::

[The MunchKING]

They wouldn't even have to be pissed at the goverment to start doing that.


They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...




Well; all we need is one, only one of the uber mutants going Bin Laden on us, or magneto and that is almost a given.

Pretty much I can't see at least one of the mutants in the world that has uber power going corrupt in that manner as a possibility.

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.

Well; I've never read the Ultimates and what I've heard about Abberrant comes from the board, so I really don't know what happened in their scenarious or if they had them.

[En Sabah Nur]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.

Somehow I feel our cities would become war zones rather quickly.

Exactly. These are also those who could easily be influenced. Someone like me would throw that good game at them about being oppressed all of their lives and now is the time to rise above them for you have become gods amoungst ants blah,blah,blah.

[The MunchKING]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

In the real world the ignoble people FAR outweight the noble.

For every hero from flight 93 we have there are ten of thousands of poor uneducated youth who turn to drugs and crime.
And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

[The Dog]

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Yes, but what about those who decide to join together and start a new group and take over the world.

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

And those will be the most important ones in the theoretical battle of Good vs. Evil since they could swing the fight either way.

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

uneducated youths couldn't be anymore dangerous than educated adults

[yeoman]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.

And treating mutants like second class citizens ensures no Xaviers to fight Apocolypse types. Plus you get more Magneto types on your hands. IOW, the planet it ****ed.

If you treat mutants like anyone else then A) You get fewer Magneto's and B) You get some Xaviers.

[The MunchKING]

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?


Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program. ;)

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

And those will be the most important ones in the theoretical battle of Good vs. Evil since they could swing the fight either way.
But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.

[En Sabah Nur]

uneducated youths couldn't be anymore dangerous than educated adults

How wrong you are. They tend to be more violent and have far less to live for.

[yeoman]

I'd like to point locking them up wouldn't make them unusually charismatic...

Baka Munchy. It just raises the odds that any powerful and charismatic mutnts will be very cheesed at the human race.

[The MunchKING]

How wrong you are. They tend to be more violent and have far less to live for.
Who's more dangerous the Crypts/bloods, or the US army??

Educated people can make thier own advatanges to counter youth and enthusiasm.

[yeoman]

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Exactly. If being a mutant is illegal than you have no mutants joining law enforcement, and any you haven't locked up are criminals.

[Jared]

If they had asses, they wouldn't be chaps. They'd be pants.

I bow before your wisdom.

[yeoman]

But what if the criminals are more powerful than the good mutants?



Which is worse, having a few lower powered mutants in law enforement to try and fight very powerful mutant criminals, or every mutant is a criminal and you have nothing beyond existing equipment to fight them with?

[En Sabah Nur]

Who's more dangerous the Crypts/bloods, or the US army??

Educated people can make thier own advatanges to counter youth and enthusiasm.

Who will cause more destruction to urban areas inner city gangs at war or the US Military???

[Knightosis]

You know, Magneto and Apocalypse is certainly bad, but mutants who revel
in destruction like Sienna Blaze, mad scientists like Mr.Sinister, and mutants
used as super soldiers (Omega Red) would worry me just as much.

[The MunchKING]

Who will cause more destruction to urban areas inner city gangs at war or the US Military???
Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.

[En Sabah Nur]

And treating mutants like second class citizens ensures no Xaviers to fight Apocolypse types. Plus you get more Magneto types on your hands. IOW, the planet it ****ed.

If you treat mutants like anyone else then A) You get fewer Magneto's and B) You get some Xaviers.

The opposite actually. If everything was fair and equal there would be no need for the Xavier/Martin Luther King types due to there being no struggle, you will more than likely have average people and not super honorable types. It is a good point you brought up about the Magneto/Pre-Mecca Malcom X types also due to there being no struggle, but you increase the risk of Apocalypse types who take advantage of the weak and conquer. I would rather deal with Magneto types with the help of Xavier types than deal with Apocalypse types with no Xavier aid of any kind.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...


Maybe, I suppose, being poor, being ugly, being born a minority....there's a thousand reasons or more for some body to just start blowing crap up, maybe they just like fire works.

Some guy who believes in low techness or some other wierd belief that goes against how our society functions.

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.


Except that all the others are effectively powerless to stop him.

And from the few that can; some might join him, others would just avoid him and a couple might oppose him but ultimately not before the damage is done.

Instead of the two towers it would be all of the state of New York.

And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Not enough to compensate for the powers being criminals. Also this only works for the blatant criminals but what about the others who aren't so blunt, well I'll just TK this over here or slip in invisible or teleport it away while its on a truck etc...and so on.

Or maybe those criminals simply avoid the super cops when they can and still manage to be practically unstoppable. Whats the best way to deal with the flame projecting cop? Simply not be on the same side of the city as him.

What about the super criminals that even having super powered police aren't going to stop?



Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Per battle maybe but once one side wins and has somebody else to concentrate on?

What happens when the mob starts getting supers?

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...

Many of whom will also be in the criminals side, because they will be criminals if only petty ones.


Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program. ;)

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

Well; they aren't going to get better numbers and the tech is basically real world tech so thats limited.


But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

Basically yeah, a hundred thousand or so in every state, most being like spiderman level in general capacity, about three hundred or so being like rogue and about four or five being magneto and ice man per state seems like a decent estimate.

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.


We can't but eventually somebody will, remember since we only need one to ever go bad its inevitable to happen.

Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.


Yep; but if a couple of those crips or bloods are carrying a nuke, things are going to get ugly.

[En Sabah Nur]

Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.

True, but the Military will not unless they move in to stop the gangs. The gangs will cause more in their petty wars against eachother.

[Metaphysician]

*sigh*

The absolute best case scenario for the "crack down" option is that you know have alot more pissed off mutants with grudges against humanity, because you've just removed the ability for any person who wanted to be just an ordinary citizen, or even an civically minded citizen ( police, fire department, etc ), to be such a person.

Congrats.

As for the whole "threat level needing monitoring" thing, well, yeah, I imagine monitoring will take place, and probably should. Monitoring, however, does not equal restricted civil rights, or concentration camps. More importantly, monitoring is only useful if you can do something about a newly discovered hostile mutant. . . and that is immeasurably helped if you have some *non* hostile mutants on your side, in the police, in the military, or just ordinary citizens willing to do something if a psycho starts randomly flaming buildings.

One last comment: claims that it is necessary to strip all mutants of freedom for the safety of society are premised on a falsehood- that a society willing to do so is worth preserving.

P.S.: References to the Patriot Act will be ignored as the ignorance-spawned BS they are.

[The MunchKING]

Originally Posted by The MunchKING
They'd have to be pretty pissed at SOMETHING...


Maybe, I suppose, being poor, being ugly, being born a minority....there's a thousand reasons or more for some body to just start blowing crap up, maybe they just like fire works.

Some guy who believes in low techness or some other wierd belief that goes against how our society functions.

Most poor people, and almost all minority people don't start burning stuff IRL. They eek out there livings like everyone else. I mean there's a few ugly/poor/minority people that do that kind of thing, but they usually have some other reason then just "ehhh... I'm Ugly, I'll burn down the Local 7-11".

But if there's only one going nuts, there's all the other non-nuts ones to stop him.

Hence why a Carrot government policy would work better.




Except that all the others are effectively powerless to stop him.

Why??

Why do you ASSUME that the evil ones have to be the most powerful??

Why could the Superman-esque kid from Kansas with a strong moral code be the Uber one??

And from the few that can; some might join him, others would just avoid him and a couple might oppose him but ultimately not before the damage is done. SO your assuming again a major numerical advantage for the criminals AND that noone's going to bother getting their act together until it's too late??

Instead of the two towers it would be all of the state of New York.

And it would be better under your plan.... how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
And he couldn't be stopped by the flame projector (or whatever) on the cops' side?

The trick would be Mutents are in demand, so the government should hire them for law enforcement... That way they can stop the criminal mutents...


Not enough to compensate for the powers being criminals. Also this only works for the blatant criminals but what about the others who aren't so blunt, well I'll just TK this over here or slip in invisible or teleport it away while its on a truck etc...and so on.

SO now your assuming ALL (or even most) mutents are going to be criminals just because they can?? few if any (and definatly not any STRONG ones.:rolleyes: ) are going to be cops or army men or whatever out of a sense of nobility, or justice or whatever??

And for the non-blatent/distructive types, that's what we have detectives for. Mutent apprehentors wouldn't even be nessisary.

Or maybe those criminals simply avoid the super cops when they can and still manage to be practically unstoppable. Whats the best way to deal with the flame projecting cop? Simply not be on the same side of the city as him.

Which is why he'd have to be one the fast responce team, sure, but that's what yyou've got him for is dealing with other muties.

What about the super criminals that even having super powered police aren't going to stop?

What about Having Super cops that no criminal can avoid/stop??

Assuming the undefendable works bothways.

Imagine a dozen bloods or cryts with military grade weaponry. Any doubt LA could be leveled in a few months??

(Anyway they'd be more likely to kill eachother off... They'd probably only level a block or two...)

Per battle maybe but once one side wins and has somebody else to concentrate on?

Once one side or the other starts thowing around High end destruction, I'm betting mutal extinction before one side or the other becomes too dominate.
(unless they're the only side with it.)

What happens when the mob starts getting supers?

You'll need the Super cops.

And for every 10,000 druggy kids, there's millions of Joe Six packs who are neither particullarly noble or evil...



Many of whom will also be in the criminals side, because they will be criminals if only petty ones.

Again. That's cynical. Why would you assume they would be thieves??



Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
Then the government needs to work on it's benefits program.

Seriously?? I'd say they'd need better numbers or Tech then. What makes them better than modern people, no matter how powerful.

Well; they aren't going to get better numbers and the tech is basically real world tech so thats limited.

Why?? Why are everybody becoming criminals??

And real world tech doesn't allow for mutents on the level we're talking, if mutents are allowed I'm betting Super science shows up next...
But another point is, Marvel style, or YvtW and most of them are going to stay normal. As are most of the druggies, and most of the cops.

Basically yeah, a hundred thousand or so in every state, most being like spiderman level in general capacity, about three hundred or so being like rogue and about four or five being magneto and ice man per state seems like a decent estimate.

Then why are there not that many in Marvel?? Spiderman-Rouge levels are apperently quite rare, as there are only so many of them around. (and they all seem inexpicably drawn to NY city. ;) )

And at least with the scenerio as given, we can't really perdict who will show up where with what powerlevel.




We can't but eventually somebody will, remember since we only need one to ever go bad its inevitable to happen.

But one bad will not be the be all and end all. Did the world exterminate all White people because of Hitler?? All the Blacks because of malcom X?? all the Middle easterners because of Osma bin Laden??

No, because the reconized them as abbaritions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The MunchKING
Depends on if the Army comes in to stop them.

If the army was trying to cause more destruction, they could cause alot more destruction alot faster than any number of crypts and bloods.




Yep; but if a couple of those crips or bloods are carrying a nuke, things are going to get ugly.
Your mixing my points here.

Here the point was "All other things being equal Old eductated people beat Young and stupid".

[The Dog]

The problem with most of the views in this thread is that your using a cynical view of the world. I mean sure, there will be some people who will follow the path of darkness, and some of those people will be pretty powerful. But that doesn't mean that they all will though. Some of the good guys will be pretty powerful too.

The world is full of those who commit evil for profit, for beliefs, for their treatment, for the reason they just feel like it. But there are those who do good because of their upbringing, their own sense of moral code, or for profit :rolleyes: .

People are a strange breed, for the way we think, act, and feel. And even if we gain mutant powers, we will be the same way.

Sure, there will be those who wish to do evil and harm others with their gifts, but then there are those who will do good.

Remember that.

[yeoman]

The opposite actually. If everything was fair and equal there would be no need for the Xavier/Martin Luther King types due to there being no struggle, you will more than likely have average people and not super honorable types.

There won't be a struggle at all under the opposite plan. Because All mutants will be criminals and locked up. By Xavier types I mean those who are altruestic and supporting Mutants and baseline humans living together.

[Knightosis]

Dark Beast. Last mutant I want running around unchecked. Same with
Sabertooth.

[Trystenn]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? though if people did have powers, i seriously doubt that there would be a WW3 (or4) because of it.

[The MunchKING]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? though if people did have powers, i seriously doubt that there would be a WW3 (or4) because of it.
So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)

[Trystenn]

So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)
Youd better believe it buddy, but what if i get a lame power like Skin?

[The Dog]

So you'd be the first to sign up for the "spandex birgade"??? ;)

No, that'd be me MunchKING. Say hello to the KING OF THE SPANDEX BRIGADE!

I hope I get classic Juggernaut or Wolverine's powers, but I'd be cool with anything but Toad's.

[The MunchKING]

Youd better believe it buddy, but what if i get a lame power like Skin?
Then you'd want your spandex to cover it up??

[The MunchKING]

No, that'd be me MunchKING. Say hello to the KING OF THE SPANDEX BRIGADE!

I hope I get classic Juggernaut or Wolverine's powers, but I'd be cool with anything but Toad's.
Me now, I wouldn't be caught Undead in Spandex...

[Chuckg]

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

Jared's leaving out the parts of his plan where the government would not only register mutants at birth, but forcibly resettle all 'possibly dangerous mutants' -- which is the same thing as saying *every* mutant -- away from living near other people.

IOW, the camps.

But that's Jared for you -- always leaving out half the truth.

[Gideon Quinn]

I think that the most moral solution would be to let them police themselves.

[Revan]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><

[The MunchKING]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><
Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...

[blackdragon6]

Wow, mutants in th real world, interesting, to be honest i see alot of people trying to be like comic book people ya know? .
well then that goes back to the CAPTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH MAN statement

[Gideon Quinn]

Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...Malcolm X was misguided in his early methods, but was not evil. Idi Amin on the other hand.....

[The MunchKING]

Malcom X was misguided, but not evil. Idi Amin on the other hand.....
I've never heard of.

[Gideon Quinn]

I've never heard of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin

[En Sabah Nur]

There won't be a struggle at all under the opposite plan. Because All mutants will be criminals and locked up. By Xavier types I mean those who are altruestic and supporting Mutants and baseline humans living together.

If that is your difinition then tons of people will be Xavier types if they live in peace with humans or in turmoil, but by my definition they are the few who see the struggle and rise up to lead the good against evil.

In your case there should be no Magneto types, but the Apocalypse type is still a threat. I would have all mutants monitored to prevent this.

I don't know where you guys get this idea that I want every mutant "With a number burned into their forehead." That ain't me. I want to simply keep an eye on a potential threat and the moment they snap have them aprehended and put into some special type of prison.

[Revan]

Well he was the worst black guy I could think of off the top of my head...


i suppose of all the black spokesmen he is the "less nice" one.


but he wasnt a murdering scumbucket like hitler and osama are/were.
nor did he actually hate white people, to my knowledge. but more the corrupt racist white goverment/police that were against the black cummunity at that time.

and yes, edi amin is a much better choice:)

[Gideon Quinn]

special type of prison.Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

[blackdragon6]

i do belive the mutants with earth shatering powers will be rare

[En Sabah Nur]

Someone compares Malcom X with Hitler!!??

holy mama><

Who did this? I compared him to Magneto earlier before his pilgrimage to Mecca where he saw that peace can be found together with all men.

[Revan]

wouldnt monitoring mutants be unethical and a sign of distrust?
if the goverment would be caught with doing somthing like that, it would not bode well at all.

[PRC4Eva]

Does anyone else see the thrid world countries (Mideast, China, N. Korea, etc) benefiting from real world mutants? These countries often have kickass propaganda programs. In some cases (Mideast probably) u probably have "If they're not with us, we should kill the infidels" drilled in their heads from an early age.

Just what the world needs eh? Wolverines and Juggernauts as terrorists.

[Jared]

Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man, Blob or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?

Could people at least try to have a debate without restarting the "Nazi!" Chorus?

[The MunchKING]

i suppose of all the black spokesmen he is the "less nice" one.


but he wasnt a murdering scumbucket like hitler and osama are/were.

I thought he burned buildings and led violent riots...

I knew he wasn't an organized Mass murder, but that wasn't really my point.

nor did he actually hate white people, to my knowledge. but more the corrupt racist white goverment/police that were against the black cummunity at that time.

Really?? I never heard that he made that distinction.

and yes, edi amin is a much better choice:)
I refer you to my earlier statement on why I didn't pick him. ;)

[Revan]

Who did this? I compared him to Magneto earlier before his pilgrimage to Mecca where he saw that peace can be found together with all men.

aye i didnt mean you mate heh.

[The MunchKING]

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man, Blob or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?
Yeah, that was overreacting...

[Gideon Quinn]

Try to use some common sense for just one moment. We all agree, that no matter what measures are taken, there would ienvitably be some super powered criminals, right? Do you really think Absorbing Man or Emma Frost can be sent to an ordinary prison facility?The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.

[En Sabah Nur]

Concentration Camp? Gulag? What?

A maximum security meathuman prison, not a death camp, but a place where they can be reformed and if worse comes to worse be locked up for life.

[Ramz]

any mutie that whines because they are a mutie would feel my wrath.


I would be lovin it if I had mutie powers.... accept if I was a morlock style mutie... then I'd be fucking burnt hard.

[The MunchKING]

The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.
Wasn't that what I said??

Although the "Baseline" cops could take in any criminals they can handle...

[Gideon Quinn]

A maximum security meathuman prison, not a death camp, but a place where they can be reformed and if worse comes to worse be locked up for life.Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.

[Jared]

The solution is to let them police themselves. Society would have to adjust, but it would be more effective in the long run.


What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?

[The MunchKING]

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.
Where will they stick them once they have "policed themselves" and caught him??

Or should they kill the criminal rather than stick him in the hands of a flatliner??

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?
actually thats a good solution

[The MunchKING]

actually thats a good solution
That only Mutents can have anything to do with Mutents?? you know the logistics problems?? Much less sociological problems??

[En Sabah Nur]

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.

You know you actually have to have somewhere to put them after they "police themselves" right? My end leads from your end, but the one who needs to explain is you, how exactly do they police themselves?

Your idea seems like segragation to me, and we all know that never works. The mutants due to their greater abilities would make things not equal, it is like some of you guys are giving mutants passes for things normal humans would not be able to recieve.

[Gideon Quinn]

What the hell is that suppossed to even mean? So if a mutant robs a bank, only other mutants can try to apprehend him? Or only mutants could serve on the jury? Or only mutants could design and run the prison? What are you trying to say?
Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no. It will only make them angry as a group.

Where will they stick them once they have "policed themselves" and caught him??

Or should they kill the criminal rather than stick him in the hands of a flatliner??
Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

[Gideon Quinn]

You know you actually have to have somewhere to put them after they "police themselves" right? My end leads from your end, but the one who needs to explain is you, how exactly do they police themselves?That is for them to decide. Or did you just think they were going to dick around and let things get ugly?

[The MunchKING]

Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no. It will only make them angry as a group.


Depends on the mutent.

Pryo wasn't bullet proof. Mysyque, toad, MOST Marvel mutents aren't bullet proof.

Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

Depends on the tech, and the Mutents being apprehended.

[The MunchKING]

That is for them to decide. Or did you just think they were going to dick around and let things get ugly?
SO they're going to make their own rules?? set themselves above humanity??

Oh great... another Divas Mal here...

[Gideon Quinn]

Depends on the mutent.

Pryo wasn't bullet proof. Mysyque, toad, MOST Marvel mutents aren't bullet proof.



Depends on the tech, and the Mutents being apprehended."Equipped" is connotative to imply their powers.

[The MunchKING]

"Equipped" is connotative to imply their powers.
What I meant was a police man can arrest your ordinary levels of Mutents...

[Gideon Quinn]

SO they're going to make their own rules?? set themselves above humanity??

Oh great... another Divas Mal here...
The United States of America lets other countries make their own rules without interfering (as long as it does not interfere with the security of the nation). The principle of nations and individuals or even groups is no different. There will always be bad eggs, but that does not mean that the entire carton is bad.

[Jared]

Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no.

>The answer depends entirely on the abilties of the particular mutant.


It will only make them angry as a group.


Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.

So if, say Toad was commiting a crime, you'd say that flatscan law enforcement shouldn't even attempt to stop him? Standard procedure for any mutant incident would be to wait for friendly supers to show up? Do you realize how stupid that is?

[Gideon Quinn]

So if, say Toad was commiting a crime, you'd say that flatscan law enforcement shouldn't even attempt to stop him? Standard procedure for any mutant incident would be to wait for friendly supers to show up? Do you realize how stupid that is?You seem to be trying to hit me every chance you get. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Toad? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Magneto? No. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a bank robber? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a psychopath in an army tank? No.

[The MunchKING]

The United States of America lets other countries make their own rules without interfering (as long as it does not interfere with the security of the nation). The principle of nations and individuals or even groups is no different. There will always be bad eggs, but that does not mean that the entire carton is bad.
There is a difference between "France can make it's own rules" and "american sdecendents of french immagrents can ignore America's laws".

[The MunchKING]

You seem to be trying to hit me every chance you get. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Toad? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down Magneto? No. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a bank robber? Yes. Are regular cops equipped enough to take down a psychopath in an army tank? No.


Thus, it depends on the mutent involved, NOT on some simple "mutents should be the only ones allowed to deal with mutents."

[Gideon Quinn]

There is a difference between "France can make it's own rules" and "american sdecendents of french immagrents can ignore America's laws".
Except that not all of them are breaking the law of the land. They are voluntarily taking a stand in trying to save society by policing themselves in an attempt to prevent a disaster that may or may not happen depending upon variability of any given altercation that would have implications which could cause a macrocosmic development of hostility.

[Gideon Quinn]

"mutents should be the only ones allowed to deal with mutents."I never directly said that. Quit using the strawman tactic against me.

[The MunchKING]

Except that not all of them are breaking the law of the land. They are voluntarily taking a stand in trying to save society by policing themselves in an attempt to prevent a disaster that may or may not happen depending upon variability of any given altercation that would have implications which could cause a macrocosmic development of hostility.


But the point is Mutents would HAVE to be answerable to the same people flatlines are, ultimatly. WHoever the duly appointed goverment people are. Mundane or Mutent. There's a difference between "Mutents can and should be encouraged to join the police so they can stop Jugg/Magneto types" and "Mutents are answerable only to other Mutents"

[The MunchKING]

I never directly said that. Quit using the strawman tactic against me.
Well, then, if you Didn't directly say it, you implied it with this post...

Your words mean nothing to me unless you explain how you will accomplish this. The best way is to let them police themselves.
Your saying, they can't have prisions run by baselines. Mutents are answerable only to the other Mutents that are "policing " them. What the Local Police cheif thinks is none of their buisness and he can keep his nose out of it.

[Gideon Quinn]

Well, then, if you Didn't directly say it, you implied it with this post... And you are implying that you would rather have fascism.....at least that is what it seems. I thought you would support me here....but I was wrong.

[The MunchKING]

And you are implying that you would rather have fascism.....at least that is what it seems. I thought you would support me here....but I was wrong.
Fascism??

I said they should be answerable to the law like anyoneelse...

[Gideon Quinn]

Fascism??

I said they should be answerable to the law like anyoneelse...Your law it seems. You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.

[The MunchKING]

Your law it seems.

That's why I said they should be answerable to the properly elected officers?

You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.
There's a difference.

I'm saying if they want to police themselves, join the police department. That's what it's there for. They DON't get to de' facto declare their independence from America. (or whatever country they live in.)

[En Sabah Nur]

Your law it seems. You are implying that they should not have the right to request to the government to police themselves. That is fascism.

He didn't imply such a thing to me. You make it sound like we don't want them to have rights period. They should answer to the athorites like we do. You want to give them better rights not equal rights or at lest that is what is being implied to me.

[Gideon Quinn]

They DON't get to de' facto declare their independence from America. (or whatever country they live in.)

Nor did I say that. I said that should police themselves. The MP's police the military. Does that make it a bit more clear?

[The MunchKING]

Nor did I say that. I said that should police themselves. The MP's police the military. Does that make it a bit more clear?
Black people, don't exclusively police Black people.

[Gideon Quinn]

Black people, don't exclusively police Black people.What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?

[The Dog]

Ok, everyone calm down. Let me try and put this best I can from the posts.

What The Manchurian Candidate is saying is that the mutants should be able to police themselves because they are better equipt to take on other mutants. I see his point.

What MunchKING is saying is that if they want to police, they should join the cops like the flatliners, and help them police everyone, mutant AND mundane alike. Good point.

You two are just spiralling out of control with accusations and such.

[The MunchKING]

What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?
You would perfer the term "speceist"???

[En Sabah Nur]

What is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to make me look like a racist?

I don't think so Manns. The thing is the MP and Military are organizations who answer to the US government.

Mutants policing mutants answer to no one and are basically vigilanties and independent of our control when on our soil.

[Gideon Quinn]

What The Manchurian Candidate is saying is that the mutants should be able to police themselves because they are better equipt to take on other mutants. I see his point.

Bingo.

*character limit*

[Celisasu]

So any bets on when this thread gets locked.....again?

[The MunchKING]

So any bets on when this thread gets locked.....again?
Ehhh... sorry...

[The Dog]

You just need to remember to keep things nice and civil...

But don't sweat it, everyone gets unruly at times, even me...

Everyone: Even?

Alright, ESPECIALLY ME!

[The MunchKING]

You just need to remember to keep things nice and civil...

But don't sweat it, everyone gets unruly at times, even me...

Everyone: Even?

Alright, ESPECIALLY ME!Dang skippy...

[blackdragon6]

i also think mutants should police themselves


*runs off and hide*

[yeoman]

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.

You also wanted potentially dangerous mutants kept seperate for the safty of the rest of humanity and to be carfully watched.

IOW, you wanted Days of Future Past without having to admit that you did. You're either a liar or a fool.


Not *quite* the same thing. Except in the minds of liars, strawmanners, and flame baiters. But there you go.

Funny, your post was all three.

[Slayven]

man this thread grew with a quickness

[StrawNilla]

If we were to let Magneto police himself he'd harm no one. The only reason Magneto became evil was because the world wouldn't accept him and leave him alone. Heck, if we're lucky, we could sway Magneto to protect the humans under the stipulation that ALL mutants can police themselves.

This way, mutants who overstepped their boundaries would have to answer to Magneto, and we all know who successful other mutants have been in doing so.

[Slayven]

true, mags while on genosha didn't bother anyone

[Slayven]

i also think mutants should police themselves


*runs off and hide*
who will police the police? especially now that Sting is up in years?

[blackdragon6]

man this thread grew with a quicknessyeah i'm quit proud of my self :)

[blackdragon6]

people also gotta keep in mind there probably won't be ALOT of mutants with earth shattering powers.and most of the rest aren't trained super spies and assassins unlike in the comics.

[The MunchKING]

man this thread grew with a quickness
Cause I was here, natch.

[Z-man]

You really can't apply real world political theories point blank to superhero topics.

After all, looking at their political positions, you would expect Chuck to support the Authority and Sam to oppose the book.

But that's clearly not the case.

And, for that matter, who's to say that mutants would be an equality issue and not a gun control one?

[AntiThesis]

not that i think its right or anything but i'm fairly certain if mutants appeared governments and many other organizations would attempt to actively exterminate them unless an extremely powerful and effective method of control was developed. The sort of power a mutant may excersize would be considered a huge threat by nearly every person lacking said powers. A powerful telepath however could most likely evade any persecution and probably ascend to positions of tremendous authority with ease, possibly using this power to effectively protect other mutants.

[Vaders shoeshine boy]

You make good points, but if do nothing then we prevent the rise of a Magneto, but perhaps ensure the rise of an Apocalypse. Some would gain this god complex and start to rally those who are weak-willed enough to listen and go on a campain of destruction. Magneto types can be reasoned with, but APocalypse types more than likely can not.


There's also the possibility of a Selene-type who actively preys on normals and mutants alike(possibly justifying the Governments Stick with nails in it-approach.

[yeoman]

The one path gets Apocolypse, plus plenty of Magnetos, and *NO* Xavier or even X-Factor types. Virtually no mutants serving law and order, if any. Most likely none and even those that did would be operating outside the law and be illegal period.

The other path gets Apocolypse, few, if any Magnetos maybe a few Xaviers and tons of X-factor types. Plus, it has the advantage of being able to sleep at night knowing you're doing the right thing.

Gee... which way to go.

[Deviant Juvenile]

And, for that matter, who's to say that mutants would be an equality issue and not a gun control one?

True. I could easily see a 'Throwing fireballs inside the city limits is illegal' type laws. However, how would the government enforce it on mutants who didn't have visible powers, ie telepaths, TK's, etc?

Also, what happens when you try to enforce the law on someone who was tossing fireballs in town, and they decide to roast the cops, because they were mad at being told no or they were drunk, or high?

I think that if mutants were to evolve into our current world, any legislation aimed at mutants /would/ start off as a gun control issue, then escalate into a registration act. It's not unthinkable. Do you know we already have a registration act? It's for people who commit capital crimes and don't get the death penalty or life in prison. Illinois, where I live, has one. It makes public the names and offenses of anyone in a community that has committed a capital crime and is now free, such as sex offenders(rapists).

And as for the issue being a 'race' issue, do you know the two prime factors(I think, I'm not quoting here) in what makes someone a racist? First, being raised in a racist family, second(this is the one that bears on the mutant issue) is having a bad experience with an individual of a certain race. Let's say someone got raped by an Asian. There is a very good chance that the victim isn't going to like Asians after that. Now, let's adapt this to the mutant issue. Let's say a mutant supporter got raped by a mutant. Chances are, that person is gonna join the other side. And most people that they talk about the incident to are gonna switch to the anti-mutant side too, I bet.

So, you see, minor control at first, then more and more harsh controls later. If this scenario were to happen, I'd say we could very likely be looking at a Magneto event, or even possibly a global species war.

Folks might call me cynical and they might be right, but to quote Xavier in X2 'Sharing the world has never been humanity's defining attribute.'

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Most poor people, and almost all minority people don't start burning stuff IRL. They eek out there livings like everyone else. I mean there's a few ugly/poor/minority people that do that kind of thing, but they usually have some other reason then just "ehhh... I'm Ugly, I'll burn down the Local 7-11".


Most don't suddenly find themselves with the ability to do notable destruction with ease or steel hard skin or benching semi trucks either. Or the capacity to do crimes and just walk away with nobody the wiser.


Why??

Why do you ASSUME that the evil ones have to be the most powerful??

Why could the Superman-esque kid from Kansas with a strong moral code be the Uber one??

Sure he could be the most uber one; but given that only one uber needs to go bad and it doesn't have to be the most uber one, it will still be more uber than 95% of the others.

Of course; thats presuming that said guy isn't the one causing all the problems in the first place. Doubtful he'll have a no kill moral code or even a stay out of wars and such things either.



SO your assuming again a major numerical advantage for the criminals AND that noone's going to bother getting their act together until it's too late??

More criminals then cops, its kind of like with terrorists, except with no planning or resources needed with far higher destructive capability, its hard to get your act together to stop this kind of thing.

And it would be better under your plan.... how?


Plan? I don't have a plan this is just conceptializing here.

SO now your assuming ALL (or even most) mutents are going to be criminals just because they can?? few if any (and definatly not any STRONG ones.:rolleyes: ) are going to be cops or army men or whatever out of a sense of nobility, or justice or whatever??


Few will be; most will be average citizens, a higher amount than normal people are going to be criminals simply due to the ease of which they will be able to do it and the ability to get away with it.

And for the non-blatent/distructive types, that's what we have detectives for. Mutent apprehentors wouldn't even be nessisary.

Not much detecting to do if its teleported or tked away from a distance. Some things even having other super cops, the super criminals will be essentially unstoppable.

Which is why he'd have to be one the fast responce team, sure, but that's what yyou've got him for is dealing with other muties.



What about Having Super cops that no criminal can avoid/stop??

Assuming the undefendable works bothways.

Well; its not as much as a problem for criminals, they do it and then the cops find out about it. They get first strike advantage here and intelligent use of powers can make it so no trace is left depending on what you got. Simply put there would be some mutants that would be able to do what they do and be uncharged by the court, he killed him your honor, with what? He used TK sir, so do you have any proof or weapon?

No sir

No weapon, no case, that kind of thing and so on.


Once one side or the other starts thowing around High end destruction, I'm betting mutal extinction before one side or the other becomes too dominate.
(unless they're the only side with it.)

Seems more likely that one comes out on top; and it'll be more than just one battle in all likelihood.


You'll need the Super cops.

Same problem with the criminals, with super powers they can easily do what they do. Teleport shipments and what ever; it will cut down tremendously on the size of their needed operations making it even harder than ever before to even begin catching them.

Again. That's cynical. Why would you assume they would be thieves??


Not cynical; basic human nature.


Why?? Why are everybody becoming criminals??

Because criminals out number cops in real life.

And real world tech doesn't allow for mutents on the level we're talking, if mutents are allowed I'm betting Super science shows up next...



Then why are there not that many in Marvel?? Spiderman-Rouge levels are apperently quite rare, as there are only so many of them around. (and they all seem inexpicably drawn to NY city. ;) )

Unless you look at all the symbiotes and the under ground mutants and genosha was a country of mutants under magneto's rule right?

Xavier's school seems to have some pretty potent mutants there.



But one bad will not be the be all and end all. Did the world exterminate all White people because of Hitler?? All the Blacks because of malcom X?? all the Middle easterners because of Osma bin Laden??

No, because the reconized them as abbaritions.


One bad in this situation could be horrendous; Magneto level power house could seriouslly cause global catastrophes.



Your mixing my points here.

Here the point was "All other things being equal Old eductated people beat Young and stupid".

Pretty much

[Rexamus Grumbo]

Of course none of this might be an issue; all we need is a few benevolent xaiver mutants or not so benevelont but want to rule and the mental domination of the planet is practically assured.

They might rule and humanity might be swept into a golden age of peace and harmony (of sorts).

[Charagon]

Also, what happens when you try to enforce the law on someone who was tossing fireballs in town, and they decide to roast the cops, because they were mad at being told no or they were drunk, or high?

Ummm, he's arrested and sentenced for murder. Duh!

How is that even a question?



Mutant breaks the law, mutant goes to jail, just like normal people. (Mutant Jail, of course)

How is this any different from our society now?

[Celisasu]

Threads like this one make me glad that things like mutants will never ever exist.

[Trystenn]

Threads like this one make me glad that things like mutants will never ever exist.
Why may i ask?

[MKTerra]

True. I could easily see a 'Throwing fireballs inside the city limits is illegal' type laws. However, how would the government enforce it on mutants who didn't have visible powers, ie telepaths, TK's, etc?Perhaps by employing other mutants whose powers can detect such activity?

[Trystenn]

Perhaps by employing other mutants whose powers can detect such activity?
But then how would you say those are illegal? i mean we do have psychics now and there arent really any laws forbidding them.

[Deviant Juvenile]

Ummm, he's arrested and sentenced for murder. Duh!

How is that even a question?

Mutant breaks the law, mutant goes to jail, just like normal people. (Mutant Jail, of course)

How is this any different from our society now?

You're missing my point. Let me break it down for you.

Mutant breaks law + cops try to arrest mutant + mutant kills cops = Public discovering how dangerous their 'different' neighbors may possibly be.

Simple enough for you?

After that, that's when the shit hits the fan, so to speak.

[Trystenn]

But to be honest even if it is a fire-ball throwing mutant police still have 1 thing that have aided them since way back when......Guns
Im sorry but a .38 to the head is going to gentle down any fire-ball throwin sumbitch i know of.

[Deviant Juvenile]

But to be honest even if it is a fire-ball throwing mutant police still have 1 thing that have aided them since way back when......Guns
Im sorry but a .38 to the head is going to gentle down any fire-ball throwin sumbitch i know of.

And you prove my point.

BTW, I never tried to claim that the fire ball mutant was some badass. Just a match to start the inferno.

[Trystenn]

And you prove my point.

BTW, I never tried to claim that the fire ball mutant was some badass. Just a match to start the inferno.
Well not really, unless like you said, they are drunk, most mutants without some crazy durability or healing factor wont try to temp fate, i mean look at the LA shooting thing we had back in 94 (or 95?), they only got to where they were using their armor, if they didnt have that, i believe they would have been kissing dirt in about .006 seconds.

[MKTerra]

And you prove my point.I'm not sure how. He just pointed out that the police getting fireballed could still shoot back with a decent chance of success. In moral/ethical terms the situation wouldn't be so different from a non-powered person going postal with a regular firearm.

[Deviant Juvenile]

Well not really, unless like you said, they are drunk, most mutants without some crazy durability or healing factor wont try to temp fate, i mean look at the LA shooting thing we had back in 94 (or 95?), they only got to where they were using their armor, if they didnt have that, i believe they would have been kissing dirt in about .006 seconds.

*sigh*

Your missing my point still.

It doesn't matter how likely mutants are to go around killing people, it doesn't matter that this mutant can throw fireballs. A mutant that could control electricity could walk into a mall and start frying kids. It doesn't matter about the specifics of the crime, only it's violence from a mutant towards a flatliner.

The point is it would bring it home to America and the world how dangerous mutants have the potential of being. /That/ would be what creates the bad image of mutants, and that would be what started the laws against them.

[Trystenn]

Ok ok ok, now i see your point, in other words even if just one goes out of hand it could be turned into mass-paranoia right?
Just making sure i got what your saying :)

[Deviant Juvenile]

Ok ok ok, now i see your point, in other words even if just one goes out of hand it could be turned into mass-paranoia right?
Just making sure i got what your saying :)

Bingo.

It probably wouldn't be a 'could' but a 'would'.

[Deviant Juvenile]

Which, if you think about it, is what Senator Kelly was doing in Xmen. Citing some mutant's powers and how badly they could be used.

[Peter]

I just looked at this thread title, then checked the "who posted" list, and decided right there that I want as little to do with this thread as possible. At least Carny hasn't posted yet.

Few will be; most will be average citizens, a higher amount than normal people are going to be criminals simply due to the ease of which they will be able to do it and the ability to get away with it.

And this is the most cynical thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life. Just because people *can* break the law, then obviously they'll go and do it.

I'm sorry, but you're *automatically* starting with the assumption that mutants are all power-mad psychos, with no individual moral codes or personal ethics to restrain them.

And *that's* thoroughly reprehensible.



The one path gets Apocolypse, plus plenty of Magnetos, and *NO* Xavier or even X-Factor types. Virtually no mutants serving law and order, if any. Most likely none and even those that did would be operating outside the law and be illegal period.

The other path gets Apocolypse, few, if any Magnetos maybe a few Xaviers and tons of X-factor types. Plus, it has the advantage of being able to sleep at night knowing you're doing the right thing.

Gee... which way to go.

As usual, Yeo sums the issue up brilliantly.

Once you go out of your way to create a second class of citizens -- telling a certain minority how to live, what they can legally and cannot legally do, etc -- you are *guaranteeing* that they will be pissed off about it, and will revolt sometime in the future.

The thing about Mutant Registration is that it will without a single doubt in the world* cause what it's trying to prevent -- angry mutants wanting to exact vengful destruction on human kind. Why anybody would actually endorse such a path is totally beyond my understanding. Even avoiding issues of right and wrong, logically it makes not a single shred of sense.


* -- and anybody who argues that these incredibly-powerful entities are going to be totally cool and fine and happy with being treated like dirt is either insane or delusional, and therefore they don't count.

*nods*

[yeoman]

As usual, Yeo sums the issue up brilliantly.


Yeo's cool like that. :D

[Peter]

Yeo's cool like that. :D

We noticed :).

*sigh*

I'll be offline until Tuesday, I just hope the thread gets closed by then.

[Rabid Trekkie]

*sigh*

Your missing my point still.

It doesn't matter how likely mutants are to go around killing people, it doesn't matter that this mutant can throw fireballs. A mutant that could control electricity could walk into a mall and start frying kids. It doesn't matter about the specifics of the crime, only it's violence from a mutant towards a flatliner.

The point is it would bring it home to America and the world how dangerous mutants have the potential of being. /That/ would be what creates the bad image of mutants, and that would be what started the laws against them.

And planes flying into buildings taught us how dangerous arabs can be. A bomb bringing down a building taught us how dangerous white people can be. Two guys in a car taught us how dangerous black people can be. Thousands of kungfu movies have taught us how dangerous asian people can be. Little Big Horn taught us how dangerous Native Americans can be.

Must rational people don't hate others for the actions of a few. Anyone can be dangerous. With just a fundamental knowledge of chemistry I could make several containers filled with poison gas to go rob houses. I kill anyone inside, steal what I want and then blow up the house like in the Bourne Supremacy. There is never a shred of evidence I was there. I just became as dangerous as your fire or electric mutant. Does that mean everyone needs to start being suspicious of white people?

Any one with just a little bit of intelligence and planning can go and commit crimes. One man here in Houston watched CSI religiously. He took what he saw on that show and killed his girlfriend. For three years everyone thought it was a suicide.

Just because one mutant goes nuts (though I doubt all mutants would be sociopathic killers such as your electric guy) doesn't mean there all bad. I would hope years of intolerance and bigotry toward everyone would have taught people that.

[AllisterH]

Am I the only one that doesn't like the fact that it seems mutants would be getting more rights than regular humans?

If a mutant, by accident, blows up my car, it seems like I'll have no recourse other than going through mutant channels.

Or what happens if in a drunken brawl bar, I get injured severely by a mutant.

I'm not talking about "EVIL" mutants, I'm talking about regular people who either were drunk (exactly what would be the law against drunk mutants?) or a guy who is just having a bad day?

I wouldn't have the ability to take my greivances before a jury of my peers since if mutants police themselves, I imagine they would also act as judge/jury for themselves.

I can imagine a defense lawyer saying "Members of the jury, surely everyone here has gotten drunk.............."

Its not just the law, but breaks in life in general. Mutants get benefits for just being mutants (education grants and preference in jobs) and what do I get as a regular human?

Well, at least you can count on a couple of Xavier types. Hey it is better than the alternative!!! Exactly why wouldn't I feel resentful?

[blackdragon6]

i think the everyday mutant would be harmless and can be taken down by a gun if need be.like i said the everyday mutant isn't some skilled warriors thats been training everyday like the x-men etc......now like someone mentioned before the x-men would be illeagal period even in the marvel verse its kinda unbelievable.

[Morw]

Okey Im not from USA so I look at the "problem" from my courner of the world and heres what I see will happen.
USA
From what I know of USA and how the US goverment deals with potential treaths. Mutans will be outlawed in several stats. Treathed like homosexuals or oither devidants there. Then this happens :
Mutant breaks law + cops try to arrest mutant + mutant kills cops = Public discovering how dangerous their 'different' neighbors may possibly be.

Media frenzy and forgetting that the same day 10 cops was in killed in thise situation:

Normal breaks law + cops try to arrest Normal + Normal kills cops with his legal bought gun = nobody reacts.

Now becouse of the media frenzy there will be a Mutant law, allowing survialing of any mutants and dentaimnet of "dangerouse" mutans. The Military will try to enlist a few mutans to make spesial mutant group etc.

Mutans will feel prosecuted and some might react badly.

Europe:

Mutants emerges, people realise they are just humans with spesial gifts, they will be merged into sosity, one bad mutant wont mean all mutans are bad. Not publicly, mutans will be allowed into the police etc. There will be mutnat SWAT teams to deal with rouge Mutants. But basicly Nothing bad will happen. This will attract mutant from other part of the world. It would simply be safer here. Wich will get a large group of mutants to work hard to keep that peace. There will be mutnat crime lords and mutant police officers. Mutants will be reminded that they are still humans, and some places there will be mutnat schools to take care of thier spesial needs.

Afrika:

In the war torn contires the mutants will take control, become warlords, or be the ones to end the conflicts. In the more civiliste areas. a mix of europe and USA.

Middel east:

USA will be tossed out of Iraq and everywhere. there will be a short war where Israel will loos in the end. ( basicly becouse there are more mutants in the arbic world ( there are more arabs then isreals so the natural number would be higher) wich would bring peace to the region. Simply becouse the reason to fight is gone ( not an idea solution but a pratical one, if somebody cant be freind then remove one of the parts from the argument). If we are lucky then Islam would look at mutants as demons wich will keep the mutant out of the fantical muslims grasp. (and might save isreal if Isreal accepts the mutants with opens arms)

Asia:

Hard to tell actully, would guess of Europe like..


So basicly I would think the result would be that USA would scare away their mutants.
and I dont think mutnats would be so bad as people think. Most people are content with a normal life. Most mutants would use thier ability to keep themself and thier loved ones safe.

[blackdragon6]

Okey Im not from USA so I look at the "problem" from my courner of the world and heres what I see will happen.
USA
From what I know of USA and how the US goverment deals with potential treaths. Mutans will be outlawed in several stats. Treathed like homosexuals or oither devidants there. Then this happens :
Mutant breaks law + cops try to arrest mutant + mutant kills cops = Public discovering how dangerous their 'different' neighbors may possibly be.

Media frenzy and forgetting that the same day 10 cops was in killed in thise situation:

Normal breaks law + cops try to arrest Normal + Normal kills cops with his legal bought gun = nobody reacts.

Now becouse of the media frenzy there will be a Mutant law, allowing survialing of any mutants and dentaimnet of "dangerouse" mutans. The Military will try to enlist a few mutans to make spesial mutant group etc.

Mutans will feel prosecuted and some might react badly.

Europe:

Mutants emerges, people realise they are just humans with spesial gifts, they will be merged into sosity, one bad mutant wont mean all mutans are bad. Not publicly, mutans will be allowed into the police etc. There will be mutnat SWAT teams to deal with rouge Mutants. But basicly Nothing bad will happen. This will attract mutant from other part of the world. It would simply be safer here. Wich will get a large group of mutants to work hard to keep that peace. There will be mutnat crime lords and mutant police officers. Mutants will be reminded that they are still humans, and some places there will be mutnat schools to take care of thier spesial needs.

Afrika:

In the war torn contires the mutants will take control, become warlords, or be the ones to end the conflicts. In the more civiliste areas. a mix of europe and USA.

Middel east:

USA will be tossed out of Iraq and everywhere. there will be a short war where Israel will loos in the end. ( basicly becouse there are more mutants in the arbic world ( there are more arabs then isreals so the natural number would be higher) wich would bring peace to the region. Simply becouse the reason to fight is gone ( not an idea solution but a pratical one, if somebody cant be freind then remove one of the parts from the argument). If we are lucky then Islam would look at mutants as demons wich will keep the mutant out of the fantical muslims grasp. (and might save isreal if Isreal accepts the mutants with opens arms)

Asia:

Hard to tell actully, would guess of Europe like..


So basicly I would think the result would be that USA would scare away their mutants.
and I dont think mutnats would be so bad as people think. Most people are content with a normal life. Most mutants would use thier ability to keep themself and thier loved ones safe.REALLY interesting...........

[lonewolf23k]

Okey Im not from USA so I look at the "problem" from my courner of the world and heres what I see will happen.
USA
From what I know of USA and how the US goverment deals with potential treaths. Mutans will be outlawed in several stats. Treathed like homosexuals or oither devidants there. Then this happens :
Mutant breaks law + cops try to arrest mutant + mutant kills cops = Public discovering how dangerous their 'different' neighbors may possibly be.

Media frenzy and forgetting that the same day 10 cops was in killed in thise situation:

Normal breaks law + cops try to arrest Normal + Normal kills cops with his legal bought gun = nobody reacts.

Now becouse of the media frenzy there will be a Mutant law, allowing survialing of any mutants and dentaimnet of "dangerouse" mutans. The Military will try to enlist a few mutans to make spesial mutant group etc.

Mutans will feel prosecuted and some might react badly.

Europe:

Mutants emerges, people realise they are just humans with spesial gifts, they will be merged into sosity, one bad mutant wont mean all mutans are bad. Not publicly, mutans will be allowed into the police etc. There will be mutnat SWAT teams to deal with rouge Mutants. But basicly Nothing bad will happen. This will attract mutant from other part of the world. It would simply be safer here. Wich will get a large group of mutants to work hard to keep that peace. There will be mutnat crime lords and mutant police officers. Mutants will be reminded that they are still humans, and some places there will be mutnat schools to take care of thier spesial needs.

So basicly I would think the result would be that USA would scare away their mutants.
and I dont think mutnats would be so bad as people think. Most people are content with a normal life. Most mutants would use thier ability to keep themself and thier loved ones safe.

Ok, Morw... Other then the blatant anti-americanism, I think your argument has some serious, serious flaws.. I find it really hard to believe, for exemple, that every European nation would openly welcome Mutants amongst them without some form of bigotry, especially since racism is still a problem over there. I know that anti-semitism and racism is a real problem in France, for exemple.

As for America automatically rounding up mutants and outlawing them 'just because... The whole "Land of the Free" thing, remember? Why would any branch of the US government outlaw people who hadn't done anything? At the very least, the question would be so controversial that the government would have to wait to hear public opinion on the mutant issue before making a final call. That theory is just ridiculous America-bashing, that's what it is.

As for Asia: I can see China definetly rounding up it's mutant citizens "for the good of the country", to try and turn them into government agents/living weapons. Same with North and perhaps South Korea. In Japan, however, mutants would definetly become popular. The Ultimate X-Men episode where they said japanese girls were practically throwing themselves at the X-Guys is somewhat accurate: a nation of neophiles like Japan would definetly welcome japanese-born mutants well.

[Gladiator X]

Interesting thread.

I've thought about this before with not just mutants but super-beings in general.

I think it would be the end of civilization as we know it and probably the end of humanity.

Super-powers would destroy eveything eventually.

What happens when the mutant kid that can alter reality with a whim has a nightmare?It doesn't matter what religion,political background or color they are.We've all had a bad dream in our lifetime now imagine if your sub-concious was affecting the entire fabric of the universe?

Ever get pissed off and do something that you would never do if your being rational?What if you had the power to explode or blast nucleur radiation?That guy that cut you off on the freeway at the wrong time could cause a disaster worse than anything the world has ever seen.

I could go on and on but the fact is,there would be no time for mutant registration acts or anything like that.Society and civilization would collapse or be altered or even worse.
Doesn't matter if 99% of the mutant population is as altruistic as Superman or Captain America.All it would take is one nihilistic teen ager with the ability to "make it all go away" and that'd be all she wrote for everything.

I dig super-heroes but there is no way I'd want to see what things would be like if they were real.

[Antonio B.]

You say that like it's a bad thing...which it kinda is. But seriously, these aren't normal pepole. These are mutants. I understand the whole "we accept black people, so why not mutants" deal, but these guys differ from normal ppl a lot more than skin color.

I don't know about you but the bolded part sounds really bad. I mean really bad. As if black people aren't even on the same level or even human.

Don't get me wrong that may not be what you were trying to say but it comes across like that.

[nanteen]

Okey Im not from USA so I look at the "problem" from my courner of the world and heres what I see will happen.
USA
From what I know of USA and how the US goverment deals with potential treaths. Mutans will be outlawed in several stats. Treathed like homosexuals or oither devidants there. Then this happens :
Mutant breaks law + cops try to arrest mutant + mutant kills cops = Public discovering how dangerous their 'different' neighbors may possibly be.

Media frenzy and forgetting that the same day 10 cops was in killed in thise situation:

Normal breaks law + cops try to arrest Normal + Normal kills cops with his legal bought gun = nobody reacts.

Now becouse of the media frenzy there will be a Mutant law, allowing survialing of any mutants and dentaimnet of "dangerouse" mutans. The Military will try to enlist a few mutans to make spesial mutant group etc.

Mutans will feel prosecuted and some might react badly.

Europe:

Mutants emerges, people realise they are just humans with spesial gifts, they will be merged into sosity, one bad mutant wont mean all mutans are bad. Not publicly, mutans will be allowed into the police etc. There will be mutnat SWAT teams to deal with rouge Mutants. But basicly Nothing bad will happen. This will attract mutant from other part of the world. It would simply be safer here. Wich will get a large group of mutants to work hard to keep that peace. There will be mutnat crime lords and mutant police officers. Mutants will be reminded that they are still humans, and some places there will be mutnat schools to take care of thier spesial needs.

Afrika:

In the war torn contires the mutants will take control, become warlords, or be the ones to end the conflicts. In the more civiliste areas. a mix of europe and USA.

Middel east:

USA will be tossed out of Iraq and everywhere. there will be a short war where Israel will loos in the end. ( basicly becouse there are more mutants in the arbic world ( there are more arabs then isreals so the natural number would be higher) wich would bring peace to the region. Simply becouse the reason to fight is gone ( not an idea solution but a pratical one, if somebody cant be freind then remove one of the parts from the argument). If we are lucky then Islam would look at mutants as demons wich will keep the mutant out of the fantical muslims grasp. (and might save isreal if Isreal accepts the mutants with opens arms)

Asia:

Hard to tell actully, would guess of Europe like..


So basicly I would think the result would be that USA would scare away their mutants.
and I dont think mutnats would be so bad as people think. Most people are content with a normal life. Most mutants would use thier ability to keep themself and thier loved ones safe.


Europe: the land of tolerance....HA

I don't seem to remeber Nazi's coming to power in the US. and France well being 'different' there isn't really a bowl of cherry's either.

Ofcourse one mutant with the power to say have a really mean stare could probably take over France, faster than their army could drop their rifles.

I don't see Israel being destroyed by Arab mutants. I see Arab mutants trying to destroy Israel, than I see Israel just start tossing around Nukes like popcorn.

Asia. China say all your mutans belong to us...

Of course I see the new super hero for Ireland comming to the forefront .

WHISKEYMAN and his sidekick BEERBOY.
(BTW I am Irish and do drink both Whiskey and Beer) :D

I also see lots of nerdy nt great looking kids become telepaths and suddenly getting hot boy/girl friends... :rolleyes:

USA I see everything going fine until a few towns beg the govt for help to stop the teenages from taking over..

[Z-man]

Am I the only one that doesn't like the fact that it seems mutants would be getting more rights than regular humans?

If a mutant, by accident, blows up my car, it seems like I'll have no recourse other than going through mutant channels.

Or what happens if in a drunken brawl bar, I get injured severely by a mutant.

I'm not talking about "EVIL" mutants, I'm talking about regular people who either were drunk (exactly what would be the law against drunk mutants?) or a guy who is just having a bad day?

I wouldn't have the ability to take my greivances before a jury of my peers since if mutants police themselves, I imagine they would also act as judge/jury for themselves.

I can imagine a defense lawyer saying "Members of the jury, surely everyone here has gotten drunk.............."

Its not just the law, but breaks in life in general. Mutants get benefits for just being mutants (education grants and preference in jobs) and what do I get as a regular human?

Well, at least you can count on a couple of Xavier types. Hey it is better than the alternative!!! Exactly why wouldn't I feel resentful?

The police are neither Judge, Jury, nor Executioner.

[Celisasu]

Why may i ask?

Because this is a situation that's lose/lose no matter what humanity does. Both sides have valid points.


The people who say treat mutants exactly like normal humans have the point that by seperating them out we create a "us vs. them" situation which can lead to increased conflict not to mention the fact that we'd have to violate at least a few rights that most normal humans take for granted.


For those who want to moniter them they've also got a good point about whether you really want a teenager who's capable of nuking entire cities wandering around without us having any idea where he is or even that he can nuke cities until he does so or a mutant who decides he really is superior to humanity and is going to do something about it.


So no matter what we do, we lose. Hence me being glad something like this couldn't happen.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Both sides have valid points.


.
its funny you should say that cause i was listening to the commentary on the first x-men movie and bryan singer and the producer thought both sides had valid points at that congretional meeting or whatever the hell that was

[En Sabah Nur]

Because this is a situation that's lose/lose no matter what humanity does. Both sides have valid points.


The people who say treat mutants exactly like normal humans have the point that by seperating them out we create a "us vs. them" situation which can lead to increased conflict not to mention the fact that we'd have to violate at least a few rights that most normal humans take for granted.


For those who want to moniter them they've also got a good point about whether you really want a teenager who's capable of nuking entire cities wandering around without us having any idea where he is or even that he can nuke cities until he does so or a mutant who decides he really is superior to humanity and is going to do something about it.


So no matter what we do, we lose. Hence me being glad something like this couldn't happen.

I think I stated something like this a while back, but I just like a good debate every now and then.

It would appear that the next step in human evolution is going to replace us no matter what.

[heretic]

yeah i'm pretty sure this has been asked before just roll with it anyway.
You really should clarify if you are asking how the rise of X-Men style Mutants _would_ be, or _should_ be deat with.

In terms of Should be, I reiterate that the main changes need to be inforcement rather than legal. All citizens would be treated as such, but when you have criminals that have the power to smack down cops and level 'normal' jails then you need better jails and tougher cops. The biggest changes would be legislation concerning telepathy/mind control and development of a fast-responce team to deal with kids' powers kicking in uncontrollably.

I am not certain that the government of the world would be quite this farsighted and levelheaded, but the fact that there are so many nations means that there is unlikely to be a single policy... and oppressive measures will tend to backfire as mutants flee to safer havens (not nessisarily democracies, any strongman who wants an impressive Royal Guard could do) or go underground.

That being said, even if there is a handfull with powers comparable to Magneto or Xavier there will be considerable upheavals in some parts of the world.

<Pictures young lass abruptly manifesting Omega-Class Mutant Powers... in DRCongo... or Sudan... or Indian backwoods... or Saudi....>

<smiles>

HTG

[heretic]

If a mutant's power suddenly popped and killed someone I know, what would I do? Dunno about you, but I would cry (a lot), and then try to get on with my life the same way I would if some kid's breakes went out and they crashed into said Loved One.

Even if I were inclined to punish the poor sod there is little I could hope to do that his concience could not do worse.But since people find out they are mutants when they are what 11-15 I would have to say all hell would break loose.

If think Columbine was bad take the poor beat up outcast of your high schools and give him the ability to set things on fire by looking at them.
:( That is why I would hope metropolitan areas would have Quick Responce Units with everything from trank rifles to hazmat gear to child psychologists on hand.After a couple years and a few coup attemps I am thinking the govet would come up with some kind of DNA test and have FORCED administering of this test at birth or soon after and probably kill those children. For the betterment of mankind of course. Then any and all suspected mutants and thier families that could will flee the nation or otherwise disppear however they can (aided and abetted by a large number of 'humans' for reasons of concience and/or profit).

Many of them will turn up elsewhere in the western world protesting the hateful and genocidal regiem of the United States.

Worry, a lot, about the ones that don't.

HTG

[The MunchKING]

But then how would you say those are illegal? i mean we do have psychics now and there arent really any laws forbidding them.
Well there ARE "truth in advertising" laws, but lets not get into that...

[The MunchKING]

Ok ok ok, now i see your point, in other words even if just one goes out of hand it could be turned into mass-paranoia right?
Just making sure i got what your saying :)
It did for Communism and Witchs...

But I'm sure we've learned from that... Right??

[Hulk Strongest One]

There would be massive web sites tracking where they were and what their powers were -- for fun!

The government wouldn't track them because the vast majority would all be wealthy and most famous, using their powers for industry or even just in a show.

Very few would go criminal since, "in the real world", even Magneto would long since be dead by someone's bullet. Hell, he'd be a billionaire just letting scientists study his power for harnessing in machinery.

Given that everyone would want these super powers, how to duplicate them would be a tremendous incentive to venture capitalist investment in studying various super powers. What would Wolverine's healing be worth? Trillions.

The whole "mutant hatred" thing, keep in mind, is just allegory for racial hatred "in the real world". Real mutants with super powers would be stars everyone wanted to emulate. Any senator who tried to gain power leading people on a hate cruscade would quickly be voted out of office.

[The MunchKING]

I just looked at this thread title, then checked the "who posted" list, and decided right there that I want as little to do with this thread as possible. At least Carny hasn't posted yet.


Awwwwe... But I'M posting here!! ;)


And this is the most cynical thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life. Just because people *can* break the law, then obviously they'll go and do it.

Heck I COULD break the law every day by stealing stuff from work. They'd never catch me. If I did it right they'd never even know it was stolen. Does that mean I DO go around stealing stuff willy nilly?? of course not!

I'm sorry, but you're *automatically* starting with the assumption that mutants are all power-mad psychos, with no individual moral codes or personal ethics to restrain them.

And *that's* thoroughly reprehensible.

Why is it these threads bring out the worst in some people??



As usual, Yeo sums the issue up brilliantly.

Once you go out of your way to create a second class of citizens -- telling a certain minority how to live, what they can legally and cannot legally do, etc -- you are *guaranteeing* that they will be pissed off about it, and will revolt sometime in the future.

Well they COULD try for peaceful means of revelution...

The thing about Mutant Registration is that it will without a single doubt in the world* cause what it's trying to prevent -- angry mutants wanting to exact vengful destruction on human kind. Why anybody would actually endorse such a path is totally beyond my understanding. Even avoiding issues of right and wrong, logically it makes not a single shred of sense.

"We got the guns and we got to make sure none of those damnmuties kill one of MY kids!!"

* -- and anybody who argues that these incredibly-powerful entities are going to be totally cool and fine and happy with being treated like dirt is either insane or delusional, and therefore they don't count.

*nods*
OK, nothing like dismissing all your opponents out of hand...

[The MunchKING]

We noticed :).

*sigh*

I'll be offline until Tuesday, I just hope the thread gets closed by then.
HEY!! We can keep it civil!!

[AllisterH]

Would you let a mutant into a bar/club?

Reason why I ask this is because going to bars is considered a "regular" thing to do for people.

Yet if I go to a bar/club, if a bouncer sees a weapon, they are fully within their right to refuse that customer.

Based mainly on the safety of their other customers.

Now what happens with say a mutant that has 5-ton super-strength (and the durability to go with it). Even if he's a little tipsy, a friendly slap on the back could injure other people (and anyone who hasn't had a slightly inebriated person friend make a fool of themselves is lying).

So, why wouldn't bar owners have a sign stating "No mutants allowed?"

[The MunchKING]

In Japan, however, mutants would definetly become popular. The Ultimate X-Men episode where they said japanese girls were practically throwing themselves at the X-Guys is somewhat accurate: a nation of neophiles like Japan would definetly welcome japanese-born mutants well.

And if SUperscinece starts showing up, how long do you think until Japan has cornered the market on "giant Fighting Robots'? :)

[heretic]

I just realized the problem with trying to avoid the Magneto's of the world.

You only need "one" person to go magneto and you have a walking, rechargeable atom bomb, going where it wants and doing what it wants.


Its inevitable.The thing about this is that violent overreaction will create lots of buddies/followers instead of a single (insanely powerful) crank that most other mutants will actively oppose if he showed up.

(BTW, if you looked at the guy's background it would be clear that Magneto did not just snap out of the blue)

HTG

[heretic]

Days of Future Past, if you're actually familiar with it, was a post-apoaclyptic wasteland pretty much ruled by mutant-hunting Sentinels.

Days of Future Jared, as it's so affectionally called, was basically me saying the government would and should register mutants at birth.
Consider, if you will, the measures needed to do so... then get back to me.

HTG (going to try avoiding any screaming matches)

[nanteen]

Well I know for sure that the whole SUPERTECHMAN hero's and villians would just be rich SOB'ez living the good life while the rest of us drove atmoic powered cars and had rosie the robot cleaning our houses.

[The MunchKING]

There would be massive web sites tracking where they were and what their powers were -- for fun!

OMG!! "firechick" Roxxor1`1!!

We GOTTA form a fan-club!! :D

The government wouldn't track them because the vast majority would all be wealthy and most famous, using their powers for industry or even just in a show.

Ahhh the Abberent approach. Always popular...

Very few would go criminal since, "in the real world", even Magneto would long since be dead by someone's bullet.

Well "Metal control" IS a nice bullet stopping power...

Hell, he'd be a billionaire just letting scientists study his power for harnessing in machinery.

Given that everyone would want these super powers, how to duplicate them would be a tremendous incentive to venture capitalist investment in studying various super powers. What would Wolverine's healing be worth? Trillions.

Unmtil everyone has them.... And I bet the drug compony's would pay billions to keep it hushed up...

The whole "mutant hatred" thing, keep in mind, is just allegory for racial hatred "in the real world". Real mutants with super powers would be stars everyone wanted to emulate. Any senator who tried to gain power leading people on a hate cruscade would quickly be voted out of office.
Depends on how the Mutents reacted to said hate crusade.

If they laughed it off and encouraged people to be better than that, then yes... If a few started getting parinoid and started trying to off him, there might be trouble...

[heretic]

Another thing; were talking about existentially America getting mutants, what about other countries which aren't privy to our way of thinking, third world countries and the like.

What happens when every country in the world becomes nuclear power?It would depend a lot on how well organized the nation is (does the writ of said government even reach the suburbs of the capital?) and how they treat thier pools of recruits.

Anyone that rules by fear and tyranny is mistreating thier pool of recruits... and has far more to worry about that the US.

HTG

[The MunchKING]

Dunno about you, but I would cry (a lot), and then try to get on with my life the same way I would if some kid's breakes went out and they crashed into said Loved One.

What not even a frantic "going to ground" episode??

Awwwe we're missing out on ALL the Cliches. ;)

Even if I were inclined to punish the poor sod there is little I could hope to do that his concience could not do worse.

We can always Hope so...

That is why I would hope petropolitan areas would have Quick Responce Units with everything from trank rifles to hazmat gear to child psychologists on hand.

Yeah, if It's an uncontrolable Marvel style you never know what you'd need...

Then any and all suspected mutants and thier families that could will flee the nation or otherwise disppear however they can (aided and abetted by a large number of 'humans' for reasons of concience and/or profit).

Many of them will turn up elsewhere in the western world protesting the hateful and genocidal regiem of the United States.

Worry, a lot, about the ones that don't.

HTG


HALST actually did alot of that in early 2.0...

HALST Island was a Safehold for Supers there for a while...

[heretic]

If a person were just blessed with powers you saw no one else had and there was no special restrants on the person they would walk around acting like they did before. Why would they not? Unless they were fairly insecure or restrained by outward (reputation/fear of authority) rather than inward (empathy/morals) forces why would they abruptly become dangerously antisocial?The average person ain't that fond of the cops anyway, if you go tell them to f*ck off you wouldn't?I perhaps would if they got in my face for no reason or otherwise abused thier power (I grew up in LA, sue me), but there is a gap between that and being ferocious or criminal in nature.

(not to mention the risk of said cop's superhuman coleagues bringing me in)

HTG

[heretic]

You know what ou don't need Magneto level threats running around.

All you need is one guy who can bench 5 tons and steel hard skin to be the next crime lord in New York to set the cops off.Then call in S.W.A.T. or CODE BLUE to bring him in and experiment with restraints.

Imagine about a dozen bloods or crips with any level of super powers.

Is there any doubt LA would or could be leveled inside 3 months?Having grown up there and knowing how spread out the place is (not to mention how reluctant a lot of said thus are to venture out of what they know)... I hace considerable dobts unless the kids are _very_ powerful and completely unopposed by more socialized folk (i.e. slightly more sensable versions of the guy below.OR on the other side we would have people taking the law into their own hands. can we say SUPER NIEGHBORHOOD WATCH COMMANDER.

:::You know bill if we could just get rid of that crack house on the corner this place would be a nice place to live:::

::Bill looks down the street and walks down and tears the building apart with his bear hands:::

HTG

[heretic]

I thought he burned buildings and led violent riots...

I knew he wasn't an organized Mass murder, but that wasn't really my point. Then you _really_ need to start reading up on your U.S. History

Amin, Bossakaa, Mugabe, Farakkhan, there are _plenty_ of Black Nutbars to pick on.

HTG (Resident Black Non-Nutbar)

[The MunchKING]

Then you _really_ need to start reading up on your U.S. History
For some reason the history books don't focus on them. Only on MLK jr. And Rosa Parks.

ALl those "peaceful" goodniks. :rolleyes:


;)

[heretic]

Do you honestly believe that a human with a mundane firearm is going to be effective in bringing down a hostile mutant? The answer is no.Actually it depends on the individual powerset (they are not all bulletproof and may not be _that_ skilled in the use of said powers) It will only make them angry as a group.Unlikely unless there is clear mistreatment/abuse of the fellow or an unwarranted shooting.
Mutants are better equipped to combat other mutants than humans are.Then hire some for the local PD/SWAT.

I am afraid trying to ghettoize mutants (esp. considering that humans would be popping them out, and occasionally the opposite would happen) would cause more problem than it solves.

HTG

[heretic]

And, for that matter, who's to say that mutants would be an equality issue and not a gun control one?The little detail about the powers not being readily sold off, stolen, grabbed by an irrisponcible kid, or confenscated without imprisoning the owner.

Guns are objects, mutants are (I would hope) citizens.

HTG (who is mildly pro Gun Control himself)

[heretic]

*sigh*

Your missing my point still.

It doesn't matter how likely mutants are to go around killing people, it doesn't matter that this mutant can throw fireballs. A mutant that could control electricity could walk into a mall and start frying kids. It doesn't matter about the specifics of the crime, only it's violence from a mutant towards a flatliner.

The point is it would bring it home to America and the world how dangerous mutants have the potential of being. /That/ would be what creates the bad image of mutants, and that would be what started the laws against them.Firstly, you have a very poor opinion of your fellow man I am afraid. If I were as cynical as you I would be a very cynical, bitter, and possibly dangerous person (Black, Male, Bright, came up in South Central's fringes, etc.) toward society at large.

That being said, there are two practical forces preventing full-blown war or oppression The mutants will be born to all walks of life and probably harder to dismiss as the 'Other'

(one can argue this has not stopped the who Gay Problem, but only a complete fool would seriously ask "Couldn't you just... stop being a Mutant?") If things get ugly here, Mutants can and will go elsewhere.

Coyotes and other People Smugglers end up making a killing in both directions, and imagine the P.R. situation of Cuba throwing open it's shores under the circumstances.More to the point, if I can think of such one would thing someone on the governmental level would think of it as well and sit on violating the rights of Mutants.

HTG

[The MunchKING]

Firstly, you have a very poor opinion of your fellow man I am afraid. If I were as cynical as you I would be a very cynical, bitter, and possibly dangerous person (Black, Male, Bright, came up in South Central's fringes, etc.) toward society at large.

And yet we haven't hunted you down??

*GASP!*

Say it isn't so!!
:p

That being said, there are two practical forces preventing full-blown war or oppression The mutants will be born to all walks of life and probably harder to dismiss as the 'Other'

(one can argue this has not stopped the who Gay Problem, but only a complete fool would seriously ask "Couldn't you just... stop being a Mutant?")

Iceman's mom??

If things get ugly here, Mutants can and will go elsewhere.

And I was thinking HERE would be the "elsewhere" for other nation's muties. Oh well...

Who wants to help me rebuild HALST island??

Coyotes and other People Smugglers end up making a killing in both directions, and imagine the P.R. situation of Cuba throwing open it's shores under the circumstances.More to the point, if I can think of such one would thing someone on the governmental level would think of it as well and sit on violating the rights of Mutants.

HTG
You'd think so wouldn't you...

But then you'd think a president would understand subject-verb agreement too... ;)

[heretic]

... but this statement shows why seperate legal setups are foolish.Am I the only one that doesn't like the fact that it seems mutants would be getting more rights than regular humans?Not under any rational system.....

If a mutant, by accident, blows up my car, it seems like I'll have no recourse other than going through mutant channels.Or calling your insurance.

Or even <whisper>suing the bonehead.</whisper>

Or what happens if in a drunken brawl bar, I get injured severely by a mutant.

I'm not talking about "EVIL" mutants, I'm talking about regular people who either were drunk (exactly what would be the law against drunk mutants?) or a guy who is just having a bad day?The same thing that happens when a 'flatscan' with a busted bottle severly injures you while intoxicated. Hopefully some time in the county jail, probably pleads out to probation/restitution.

I wouldn't have the ability to take my greivances before a jury of my peers since if mutants police themselves, I imagine they would also act as judge/jury for themselves.Why?

Do the cops also serve as a jury? Any setup like this would be insane.

Its not just the law, but breaks in life in general. Mutants get benefits for just being mutants (education grants and preference in jobs) and what do I get as a regular human?Again where is this preference being proposed. The education (learning to control one's powers) is of no use to you and any job preference would be due to market forces (if anything the Mutants, esp. more visible ones, would be discriminated against).

Well, at least you can count on a couple of Xavier types. Hey it is better than the alternative!!! Exactly why wouldn't I feel resentful?Because Most of this would be paranoid rumour at best (barring some _really_ idiotic rulings from Congress or the Supreme Court that would be reversed shortly). Given the choice between mutants walking the street and possibly being as irritating as other people and mutants being a seething underclass waiting to blow I pick the former.

HTG

[heretic]

Then you _really_ need to start reading up on your U.S. History For some reason the history books don't focus on them. Only on MLK jr. And Rosa Parks. Let me rephrase, you need to study up on U.S. History, Current Events, & World History.

HTG

[The MunchKING]

Or calling your insurance.

Or even <whisper>suing the bonehead.</whisper>

Oh yeah... Like he's going to stick around long enough to give me two forms of ID. ;)


The same thing that happens when a 'flatscan' with a busted bottle severly injures you while intoxicated. Hopefully some time in the county jail, probably pleads out to probation/restitution.Why?

The only difference is he might need a thicker clinck.

and any job preference would be due to market forces (if anything the Mutants, esp. more visible ones, would be discriminated against).

I dunno. Guy A can do a normal human's work.

Guy B is a Mutent!! He can do 20 guy's work in the same time it takes A to do his day's work.

Uless Guy b is charging 20+ TIMES what Guy A would charge it would be economically viable to go with Guy B.

Because Most of this would be paranoid rumour at best (barring some _really_ idiotic rulings from Congress or the Supreme Court that would be reversed shortly). Given the choice between mutants walking the street and possibly being as irritating as other people and mutants being a seething underclass waiting to blow I pick the former.

HTG
Well yeah...

[The MunchKING]

Let me rephrase, you need to study up on U.S. History, Current Events, & World History.

HTG
That sounds like... WORK!!

Uuuugh.

[Z-man]

I dunno. Guy A can do a normal human's work.

Guy B is a Mutent!! He can do 20 guy's work in the same time it takes A to do his day's work.

Uless Guy b is charging 20+ TIMES what Guy A would charge it would be economically viable to go with Guy B.

That is why, most of the time, guy B will charge 20 times what Guy A would charge.

Or he drives down the cost of the work, which drives down the cost of the end product, which drives down a lot of other related costs.

[The MunchKING]

That is why, most of the time, guy B will charge 20 times what Guy A would charge. He could (most likely) charge 15X the normal and still live in VERY well off condiotions comparitivlly.

[Metaphysician]

Yeah, smart move is to charge less than the cost of an equivalent number of normal workers. That way, you still make lots of money, but you also make yourself valuable for employment.

[Rexamus Grumbo]

I just looked at this thread title, then checked the "who posted" list, and decided right there that I want as little to do with this thread as possible. At least Carny hasn't posted yet.



And this is the most cynical thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life. Just because people *can* break the law, then obviously they'll go and do it.

I'm sorry, but you're *automatically* starting with the assumption that mutants are all power-mad psychos, with no individual moral codes or personal ethics to restrain them.

And *that's* thoroughly reprehensible.


Uh...Peter did you read the paragraph you quoted "Few will be" in particular? It isn't exactly a leap in logic to say that the portion of the population compromised of Powers will have a higher tendency to commit crimes due to the capacity to do them and get away with them.

Unlike normals they don't need planning, they don't need resources, they don't need to learn a whole bunch information to make a bomb.

Power Corrupts, even if only slightly.

As I said most of them won't commit crimes, they will have a higher tendency to commit petty crimes, very few would actually become murderers or rapists or some such thing.

Its like if you had some personal dimensional hole or something you could place things in, the general person will have a higher tendency to shop lift. It might not even be big time shop lifting, they get hungry, grab some snack, toss it in and go on their way.

Pretty much Peter what you've claimed I said is the exact opposite of what I said.

They don't have to be pyscho's or evil to do what I'm saying, they can actually be the neutrals and on occasion the good guys.

[QUOTE=nanteen]Europe: the land of tolerance....HA

Well; he's basing the treatment of gays and other minorities throughout the years and applying it to mutants.



I also see lots of nerdy nt great looking kids become telepaths and suddenly getting hot boy/girl friends... :rolleyes:

Which would bring up issues, what happens if the significant others start getting suspicious about who they are dating?

Is every time some one dates some body they normally wouldn't "gasp" mind control or some such thing?

USA I see everything going fine until a few towns beg the govt for help to stop the teenages from taking over..

Yeah; small towns could have some serious problems.



The thing about this is that violent overreaction will create lots of buddies/followers instead of a single (insanely powerful) crank that most other mutants will actively oppose if he showed up.

(BTW, if you looked at the guy's background it would be clear that Magneto did not just snap out of the blue)

HTG

Yep; but they might not stop him until after he's killed a few billion in a day or in an instant.


OMG!! "firechick" Roxxor1`1!!

We GOTTA form a fan-club!! :D



Ahhh the Abberent approach. Always popular...



Well "Metal control" IS a nice bullet stopping power...



Unmtil everyone has them.... And I bet the drug compony's would pay billions to keep it hushed up...

Kind of like the whole oil company thing and being a guiniea pig might not always be by choice, I can see companies manipulating events so they could get their hands on something worth trillions.


QUOTE=heretic]It would depend a lot on how well organized the nation is (does the writ of said government even reach the suburbs of the capital?) and how they treat thier pools of recruits.

Anyone that rules by fear and tyranny is mistreating thier pool of recruits... and has far more to worry about that the US.

HTG


Unless they gave their recruits the good life or set themselves up as doing what was needed or was appointed via divine right or some such thing.


He could (most likely) charge 15X the normal and still live in VERY well off condiotions comparitivlly.

Or five or ten; just enough to have a substantially profit and still get constant work.

[Metaphysician]

If a given mutant has enough raw power to kill billions in a day, than there is absolutely nothing mundane authorities can do about it regardless of what they try. Trying to prepare for that scenario is like trying to prepare for the contingency that the galactic core blows up.

[Z-man]

QUOTE]

When you wish to break up a quote in order to comment on different pieces of the quote, put at the end, insert your comment, and then put [quote] before the next bit you want to quote.

That way your readers don't have to work so hard to tell what you're saying apart from what you're quoting, and you're more likely to get your posts addressed.

[The MunchKING]

Its like if you had some personal dimensional hole or something you could place things in, the general person will have a higher tendency to shop lift. It might not even be big time shop lifting, they get hungry, grab some snack, toss it in and go on their way.
Why?? If you have a pocket dimension there's all kinds of stuff you could do where you would HAVE the 50c for a freaken candybar.