Are the New Warriors' time over?

[the Hornet]

Seeing as how popular Young Avengers are (when the comic comes out anyway), are the New Warriors a thing of the past? As the original members are mostly all adults now, can't they just the New and reform as the Warriors, maybe operating in another city or even country ?

I miss them.

Anyone know what happened to the original members (I know Nova is the only one still going strong and Firestar retired)?

[tigerkaya]

Firestar is still active, Justice is a teacher in Avengers Academy, Namorita (resurrected in Nova) is living in Project Pegasus.

[infernohara]

Namorita- is resurrected and in space waiting for Nova.

Nova- Fate unknown. Read Thanos Imperative.

Night thrasher- Dead.

Speedball- current teacher at Avenger's Academy as well as member Justice.

Firestar- playing hero with the Young allies.

As for the team: I wish they would come back. Warriors would be a good idea for the team name now that they're older, but Nova is a protector of a Universe now and Namorita will most likely stay by his side so they're out. Firestar and Justice are pretty awkward with each other so I doubt they'd want to be in a team setting again. The team needs to be redeemed somehow though. The modern version really lost steam near the end.

[Sighphi]

Yes.
They have to change the horrible CW depiction that had them doing the reality show as a goof to get famous.

Wait, according to Wiki, the truest source of information, namorita is from another dimension. If this is true she is not resurrected she is just an alternate universe version. Confirmation?

[SilverZeal]

We/SZ believe d NW's can still work based on Grevioux's concept & premise in d last run however Dwayne needs 2 return as Night Thrasher & editorial b.s really really needs 2 bak-off so dt d execution & story can reach its potential & cum 2 life. We really liked d new xcters Grevioux's introduced(d wigger gal, d chinese kid & indian boy who dealt with d mechnical, scientific & tek stuff) & would like dem 2 stay with d team.

So if u disliked Grevioux's premise...pls make sum suggestions?

Keep in mind dat der r already a grand variety of groups of superhuman teams particularly with all d x-titles/ teams, Avengers Titles & Teams, etc...so d suggestion would have 2 make d NW purpose b unique enuff 4 it 2 b very different from all d others.

Cloak & Dagger would b a welkomed addition 2 d NW.

[The Cool Thatguy]

As a concept, they're fine. They were never really 'Young Avengers', so the fact that there's now a team of them doesn't much matter.

I mean sure, outside of a single story I doubt we'll see the originals together again, but so what? Every team book that gets rebooted starts with an altered team, rookies plus founders. No reason the New Warriors can't be different.

[Lord Bravery]

New Warriors' time was over the moment Mark Millar took a massive dump on them at the start of Civil War for no other reason than to kick start his event.

[Nomads1]

No their time is not over. Yes, they can come back in a successful way. The New Warriors were at it's best when they were kinda like social activists. Real world issues, not that former mutants wanting to be heroes garbage (Both totally missed the point). The reality TV thing was even worse. As if Night Thrasher would have gone along with something like that. There are still pleanty of former New Warriors around (Justice, Firestar, Turbo, Speedball, Rage, Ultragirl, Darkhawk - maybe they could tie up the raptor society story with the Warriors - Silhouette, Night Thrasher II, Timeslip, Powerhouse. Perhaps Gravity can join them), to form a good team. But what would really seal the deal for me was if Fabian Nicienza came back to writing them.

Peace

[Soundrave]

We/SZ believe d NW's can still work based on Grevioux's concept & premise in d last run however Dwayne needs 2 return as Night Thrasher & editorial b.s really really needs 2 bak-off so dt d execution & story can reach its potential & cum 2 life. We really liked d new xcters Grevioux's introduced(d wigger gal, d chinese kid & indian boy who dealt with d mechnical, scientific & tek stuff) & would like dem 2 stay with d team.

So if u disliked Grevioux's premise...pls make sum suggestions?

Keep in mind dat der r already a grand variety of groups of superhuman teams particularly with all d x-titles/ teams, Avengers Titles & Teams, etc...so d suggestion would have 2 make d NW purpose b unique enuff 4 it 2 b very different from all d others.

Cloak & Dagger would b a welkomed addition 2 d NW.

Are you Cajun?

[xheight]

New Warriors' time was over the moment Mark Millar took a massive dump on them at the start of Civil War for no other reason than to kick start his event.

That's funny as many like myself saw that as overdue development on the Zeb Wells and Skottie Young mini which took that DeFalco dyssynergic defaecation of 90's jobbing to pass at last out of Marvel's system.

They were the dump not dumped on.

[Lord Bravery]

That's funny as many like myself saw that as overdue development on the Zeb Wells and Skottie Young mini which took that DeFalco dyssynergic defaecation of 90's jobbing to pass at last out of Marvel's system.

They were the dump not dumped on.

I just didn't like that they were used as nothing more than a plot device and they were all written out of character. They may have been young and brash, but stupid enough to take on someone like Nitro... outside of a friggin school?

No, just no.

[Light Yagami]

i like the new warrriors but they did get used and abuseed in the civil war

[Lord Bravery]

Ehh... everyone got used and abused in Civil War. I don't think i've ever seen a bigger example of changing characters just to fit a story. Instead of naturally developing them and taking into consideration previous portrayals.

.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Honestly the classic NW shouldn't be New Warriors. That's like the Nightwing and his friends being the New Teen Titans again. I mean you can only be new for so long. I kinda think some of them are better off where they are currently, like Justice - serving as an intermediary for the new generation of heroes and the legends.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That's funny as many like myself saw that as overdue development on the Zeb Wells and Skottie Young mini which took that DeFalco dyssynergic defaecation of 90's jobbing to pass at last out of Marvel's system.

They were the dump not dumped on.

Not hardly. The New Warriors were the best thing to come out of the 90s by large measure. Civil War was just crap from beginning to end, worse than the 90s ever were.

I mean, here we had a story about personal ideals driven by half assed plot (Thor clone, really?).

[xheight]

i like the new warrriors but they did get used and abuseed in the civil war

What was there to like as they were all overwritten and overcapable in some of the worst comicbook traditions and again it wasn't Civil War but the series before, Vol. 3, which had them in a reality show. Mostly the series read like the write-up of someone's superhero roleplaying game - chezz just look at the names for lameness - Rage, Hindsight Lad, the Soldiers of Misfortune, Night Thrasher...it is like a parody of comics.

[SilverZeal]

@ Soundrave:

Wat is a "Cajun"?

[The Cool Thatguy]

What was there to like as they were all overwritten and overcapable in some of the worst comicbook traditions and again it wasn't Civil War but the series before, Vol. 3, which had them in a reality show. Mostly the series read like the write-up of someone's superhero roleplaying game - chezz just look at the names for lameness - Rage, Hindsight Lad, the Soldiers of Misfortune, Night Thrasher...it is like a parody of comics.

Overwritten and overcapable? What the hell does that even mean?

[Lord Bravery]

Not hardly. The New Warriors were the best thing to come out of the 90s by large measure. Civil War was just crap from beginning to end, worse than the 90s ever were.

I mean, here we had a story about personal ideals driven by half assed plot (Thor clone, really?).

Joe Kelly's Deadpool disagrees :wink:

But I agree, Civil War was terrible.

[xheight]

Overwritten and overcapable? What the hell does that even mean?

It means giving dialogue to characters that it does not fit by age, intellect or what have you and by overcapabale is just outright jobbing that at least the current Academy or Young Avengers writers are aware of. Add in a few quick turns of character out of nowhere and one gets some unbelievably bad writing that then goes on to pitch on idea rather than resemble a person. (see ABC Afterschool Special) Which also justifies the quick turn of the reality show btw.

[The Cool Thatguy]

It means giving dialogue to characters that it does not fit by age, intellect or what have you and by overcapabale is just outright jobbing that at least the current Academy or Young Avengers writers are aware of. Add in a few quick turns of character out of nowhere and one gets some unbelievably bad writing that then goes on to pitch on idea rather than resemble a person. (see ABC Afterschool Special) Which also justifies the quick turn of the reality show btw.

So...Firestar being trained by the White Queen, Nova spending a year at war, Marvel Boy and Namorita sidekicking to Thing and Namor respectively and Night Thrasher's years of training, after all that, you think they ought to have been stumbling around in the dark like rookies?

[xheight]

So...Firestar being trained by the White Queen, Nova spending a year at war, Marvel Boy and Namorita sidekicking to Thing and Namor respectively and Night Thrasher's years of training, after all that, you think they ought to have been stumbling around in the dark like rookies?

Sorry but I can't help but laugh at these add-ons to work them into the MU skin like some cheap tanning lotion. Still stinks after all the years and the layers of nostalgia that people have heaped on it. Next one's going ask about the poignancy of Vance's tragedy. The thing of it is like most history is that the reader has to live it along with the character not be told it happened. Yes we know comic often have to work in shorthand but that is where real greats seperate from the also-rans as four pages by Jack Kirby could show us more depth than any number of pages about getting drunk at a nightclub because of "the pressure" of being a team leader could.

[Lord Bravery]

Wait... are you saying Nova's development as a character in Annihilation was a cheap trick or something?

If so, no one has ever been more wrong about something. Annihilation is the best comic book event of the decade, one of the best ever. EASILY.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sorry but I can't help but laugh at these add-ons to work them into the MU skin like some cheap tanning lotion. Still stinks after all the years and the layers of nostalgia that people have heaped on it. Next one's going ask about the poignancy of Vance's tragedy. The thing of it is like most history is that the reader has to live it along with the character not be told it happened. Yes we know comic often have to work in shorthand but that is where real greats seperate from the also-rans as four pages by Jack Kirby could show us more depth than any number of pages about getting drunk at a nightclub because of "the pressure" of being a team leader could.

You know that all those things were character elements that existed long before they were bundled together as a team, right?

[lobsterj]

I have a deep love for the NW, and I didn't actually mind the reality t.v. mini. They were handled terribly and out of character for CW, but thats life, at some point a writer with no idea about a character/s is going to use him, her, or them as a plot device. Even with the terrible events of CW, that could have led to a great series with original NW'ers trying to redeem the team name. Instead we got a series with no relationship to the NW of old. It wasn't a bad idea for a team, it just wasn't the New Warriors at all.

[xheight]

Wait... are you saying Nova's development as a character in Annihilation was a cheap trick or something?

If so, no one has ever been more wrong about something. Annihilation is the best comic book event of the decade, one of the best ever. EASILY.

Annihilation? aren't we talking about New Warriors? or rather the character turns of that run that were supposed to be "deep" but came off as forced melodramas like killing your abusive gay dad or betraying your team in a drunken bender or...

[Lord Bravery]

Oh, i misread The Cool Thatguy's post about Nova going to war. Apologies.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Annihilation? aren't we talking about New Warriors? or rather the character turns of that run that were supposed to be "deep" but came off as forced melodramas like killing your abusive gay dad or betraying your team in a drunken bender or...

So an abusive parent is forced melodrama, but fighting aliens from space isn't.

Right...

[Shadey10]

So an abusive parent is forced melodrama, but fighting aliens from space isn't.

Right...

He speaks like someone who hasnt read a NW book in his life.

[The Cool Thatguy]

He speaks like someone who hasnt read a NW book in his life.

Just the summaries, if I was a gambling man, given the fact that Vance only learned his father was gay after he was already dead (time travel).

[Michael P]

Oh, god, yes. And it's been over for some time.

They've all moved on. Why haven't you?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Oh, god, yes. And it's been over for some time.

They've all moved on. Why haven't you?

Because the concept is sound, and they have fans?

Christ, what is with the negativity in this thread?

[lobsterj]

Because the concept is sound, and they have fans?

Christ, what is with the negativity in this thread?

Seriously. "They've all moved on. Why haven't you?" Its not like the NW are an ex we saw with her new bf at the mall and started crying about. Jeesh.

[AdamYJ]

Well, their tagline was "The Super Heroes of the '90s" . . . :frown:

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well, their tagline was "The Super Heroes of the '90s" . . . :frown:

Point!:tongue:

But if Deadpool can move past being a lousy Deathstrike rip-off, so too can the Warriors move out of the 90s.

[SilverZeal]

Soooo instead of pointing guns @ each others heads....wat about mking sum suggestions dat would give NW a plausible purpose 2 exist in d MU as a unique & independent team without having any kinda rip-off effect of d Avengers & X related teams.

Pls include preferred team roster.

So how about it.

[Nomads1]

Well, their tagline was "The Super Heroes of the '90s" . . . :frown:

If I'm not mistaken, they did change the tagline for "Super-heroes for the new Millenum" in the Jay Farber relaunch.:smile:

Peace

[The Cool Thatguy]

Soooo instead of pointing guns @ each others heads....wat about mking sum suggestions dat would give NW a plausible purpose 2 exist in d MU as a unique & independent team without having any kinda rip-off effect of d Avengers & X related teams.

Pls include preferred team roster.

So how about it.

Sure thing.

My team would be a mix of old and new, young heroes tackling social problems while trying to avoid becoming some faux Authority.

Members:

Night Thrasher: Dwayne Taylor, the one and only. He was pretending to be his brother while investigating certain powerful people. But he's ready and he's got an agenda.

Tarene: Naive new comer. The heart and innocence of the team, coupled with enough firepower to make Thor blink

Gravity: The team conscience, and the one member who doesn't have a problem questioning Thrash's goals

Power Man: Not wanting to be in Luke Cage's shadow, Victor joins up. But Victor soon learns that there's more to being a hero than not being someone else.

Amadeus Cho: A former manipulative bastard, Cho learned humanity and humility while working alongside the demi-God Hercules. But what Night Thrasher has revealed to the young genius threatens to cause him to backslide, as they fight a shadow war.

Scorpion: Daughter of a terrorist and on the outs with Shield, Camilla Black needs allies, and Night Thrasher isn't about to turn away a skilled operative. Only Scorpion isn't on the outs with Shield, and Thrash knows it. Who's playing who?

Firestar: Angelica Jones thought her time as a New Warrior had passed, but when Dwayne asks her to join his side, Firestar agrees. Because she's seen that look in Dwayne's eyes, the look that he's approaching an edge. And she'll never let a friend fall.

[xheight]

So an abusive parent is forced melodrama, but fighting aliens from space isn't.

Right...

That's right not all suspension of disbelief is the same. Otherwise all genre fiction would equally good and delightful but sadly that is not so. It's not like melodrama is a crime either its just that I think writers should avoid delivering social messages by them so as not to sound like preachy adults talking down to their audience.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That's right not all suspension of disbelief is the same. Otherwise all genre fiction would equally good and delightful but sadly that is not so. It's not like melodrama is a crime either its just that I think writers should avoid delivering social messages by them so as not to sound like preachy adults talking down to their audience.

Fair enough. But your complaint is still misinformed, given that Vance's Dad's homosexuality wasn't reveal until some twenty issues later, and was used to emphasize the cycle of abuse that is common with child abuse.

And the murder trial happened while the Warriors were trying to save the world, so there's that too :tongue:

[xheight]

Fair enough. But your complaint is still misinformed, given that Vance's Dad's homosexuality wasn't reveal until some twenty issues later, and was used to emphasize the cycle of abuse that is common with child abuse.

And the murder trial happened while the Warriors were trying to save the world, so there's that too :tongue:

When it comes to the NW of yore I can only advise to all that ignorance is bliss and spend your .50 bin buys for Master of Kung-fu or something else.

[AgPhoenix]

Because the concept is sound, and they have fans?

Christ, what is with the negativity in this thread?

Well, part of the reason is that it's a "90s" concept, and as long as the Industry continues to have this immature, myopic, one-sided look at the decade, its concepts (no matter how good they might have been) will continue to get buried with the crap that rightfully gets buried now.

If anything, I'd love to see the New Warriors get back together for one last dance, and take down a major threat by themselves before they either retire the name, or give a bunch of new heroes a chance to make their own legacy with it.

[AgPhoenix]

When it comes to the NW of yore I can only advise to all that ignorance is bliss and spend your .50 bin buys for Master of Kung-fu or something else.

Before you say anything else, Have you ever read this book?

[Alan2099]

I just didn't like that they were used as nothing more than a plot device and they were all written out of character. They may have been young and brash, but stupid enough to take on someone like Nitro... outside of a friggin school?
Nitro was a chump. Nitro has always been a chump. Daredevil has tooken the guy out with ease.

They had no way of knowing he'd gotten a powerup. It's like when Daredevil, Moonknight, and Spider-man all teamed-up against the Ringmaster and got their butts kicked in seconds because they didn't know he had gotten ahold of a cosmic cube.

[The Cool Thatguy]

When it comes to the NW of yore I can only advise to all that ignorance is bliss and spend your .50 bin buys for Master of Kung-fu or something else.

Translation: I've never read the book, and misread some summaries.

[Nevets F]

Before you say anything else, Have you ever read this book?

Obviously not.

[Alan2099]

I'll give him this, New Warriors had some HORRIBLE enemies, but it was the 90s. That was true of everyone. They still had an awesome team dynamic with some pretty cool characters and stories.

I wish Firestar would go back to her 90s look. I miss that one.

[Nite-Wing]

You can't have the new warriors without speedball

[Pixie_Solanas]

Is their time over? lolololol.

[Monty_Cristo]

i hate you Donyell!

[Michael P]

If I'm not mistaken, they did change the tagline for "Super-heroes for the new Millenum" in the Jay Farber relaunch.:smile:

Peace

And of course, the book didn't survive long enough to see the new millennium.

[Shellhead]

@ Soundrave:

Wat is a "Cajun"?

Gambit is a Cajun. The Cajuns are a french-speaking ethnic group from Louisiana. Soundrave is saying that the way you write is similar to the way Cajuns talk when they use english.

[xheight]

Well, part of the reason is that it's a "90s" concept, and as long as the Industry continues to have this immature, myopic, one-sided look at the decade, its concepts (no matter how good they might have been) will continue to get buried with the crap that rightfully gets buried now.

If anything, I'd love to see the New Warriors get back together for one last dance, and take down a major threat by themselves before they either retire the name, or give a bunch of new heroes a chance to make their own legacy with it.

How you call it myopic when NW practically represent the 90's worst stuff. It goes hand in hand with much of the defalco mess in of clone saga, FF skrull girlfriends and Force Works. I read enough of them at the time and it's a shame this topic keeps popping up like a bad penny. It's not going to get better with time and I have given reasons that are not "immature" but rather detailed regarding their retrograde attitudes toward readers. There was some good to great stuff in the 90's - Peter David's Hulk, Miller Daredevil: Man Without Fear... even the x-titles were pretty good.

[The Cool Thatguy]

How you call it myopic when NW practically represent the 90's worst stuff. It goes hand in hand with much of the defalco mess in of clone saga, FF skrull girlfriends and Force Works. I read enough of them at the time and it's a shame this topic keeps popping up like a bad penny. It's not going to get better with time and I have given reasons that are not "immature" but rather detailed regarding their retrograde attitudes toward readers. There was some good to great stuff in the 90's - Peter David's Hulk, Miller Daredevil: Man Without Fear... even the x-titles were pretty good.

Your first stated reason for disliking them was because they were too capable, something you should have known wasn't the case if you read the book.

Your second stated reason, that they were shoe horned into the MU ala Sentry, but again ignored that they were all introduced seperately, for some decades apart.

Your third stated reason was a mish mash of plots, taken wildly out of context.

So yeah, your reasons are fairly immature as it's pretty obvious you didn't read the issues and you're inventing reasons to dislike them out of online summaries and thin air.

[K Von Doom]

New Warriors was originally going to be called Young Avengers.

As of now, their time is up. As it happens with better characters; they grew up.

If a New Warriors was formed now, it wouldn't be the New Warriors without Nova, Firestar, Marvel Boy and original Thrasher. That'll be like forming the JLA without Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman; or Avengers without Cap, Thor and Ironman: it's possible to form a New Warriors group in name only but you'll know they're not really the New Warriors.

[guttcomics]

Not hardly. The New Warriors were the best thing to come out of the 90s by large measure. Civil War was just crap from beginning to end, worse than the 90s ever were.

I mean, here we had a story about personal ideals driven by half assed plot (Thor clone, really?).

I disagree the civil war is a masterpiece and just how in one of the most important decades for comics whit all the x-books and image and even valiant for a second that the #@$@R@#R new warriors the coolest thing to come out
they not even in the top 10 of the 90s if anything there better and more well rounded cause of the civil war.

[Shadey10]

I disagree the civil war is a masterpiece and just how in one of the most important decades for comics whit all the x-books and image and even valiant for a second that the #@$@R@#R new warriors the coolest thing to come out
they not even in the top 10 of the 90s if anything there better and more well rounded cause of the civil war.

Bwahahahaha that's a joke right?

[theXfactor]

The idea of a team dealing with social issues is cool. Heroes should do more than just fight bad guys.
Here's a team idea:
Namorita
Speedball
Cloak
Dagger
Spider-Girl
Gravity
Tarene

[Babylon23]

Rename them New Warrior Avengers and put Wolverine and Sider-Man on the team. That seems to be Marvel's way of guarenteeing success these days. Sure it makes no sense to have these two characters on the team but why let that get in the way of increased sales.

[Lord Bravery]

I disagree the civil war is a masterpiece and just how in one of the most important decades for comics whit all the x-books and image and even valiant for a second that the #@$@R@#R new warriors the coolest thing to come out
they not even in the top 10 of the 90s if anything there better and more well rounded cause of the civil war.


Bwahahahaha that's a joke right?

I really hope it is.

Civil War is one of the worst Marvel events... ever.

[guttcomics]

I really hope it is.

Civil War is one of the worst Marvel events... ever.

At some point you have you can't blame fanboyisms for just being a hater or a person that finds things to hate thats why they can't make no good comic movies cause the fanboy community is so busy trying to find things to hate they don't know what to like so in turn the movie people is like @#$! it they ain't going to like nothing we do anyway so take the x-men get there names and powers right pluck out the most popular ones and make up something ourselves.

just cause your favorite heroes may have got killed or or ended up crazy like speedball don't mean that it wasn't a engrossing story that you read to it was over and thats what it's about.

[guttcomics]

How you call it myopic when NW practically represent the 90's worst stuff. It goes hand in hand with much of the defalco mess in of clone saga, FF skrull girlfriends and Force Works. I read enough of them at the time and it's a shame this topic keeps popping up like a bad penny. It's not going to get better with time and I have given reasons that are not "immature" but rather detailed regarding their retrograde attitudes toward readers. There was some good to great stuff in the 90's - Peter David's Hulk, Miller Daredevil: Man Without Fear... even the x-titles were pretty good.
I agree the new warriors was hot garbage and there greatest claim to fame is the civil war cause if wasn't for that we wouldn't be talking about them unless we was talking about the group Nova used to be in.

[The Cool Thatguy]

At some point you have you can't blame fanboyisms for just being a hater or a person that finds things to hate thats why they can't make no good comic movies cause the fanboy community is so busy trying to find things to hate they don't know what to like so in turn the movie people is like @#$! it they ain't going to like nothing we do anyway so take the x-men get there names and powers right pluck out the most popular ones and make up something ourselves.

just cause your favorite heroes may have got killed or or ended up crazy like speedball don't mean that it wasn't a engrossing story that you read to it was over and thats what it's about.

Ugh, please. Butchered political symbolism, outright stupidity on the part of the writer and terribly out of character things like a Thor clone in the middle of the series?

Civil War is what people say the 90s are. Cliche action fests that try way too hard to be taken seriously. If a story about someone's personal beliefs isn't character driven, but plot driven, then it should be obvious what's wrong.


I agree the new warriors was hot garbage and there greatest claim to fame is the civil war cause if wasn't for that we wouldn't be talking about them unless we was talking about the group Nova used to be in.

Not hardly. The original series lasted 75 issues, and tackled real world issues long before it was cool. It was the New Warriors who made Nova cool again, after all.

[Faded]

I didn't like the Speedball/Penance story arc, but I felt like Civil War gave the New Warriors the most relevance they've ever had while only offing three? members (and two were pretty lame).

[Shadey10]

I didn't like the Speedball/Penance story arc, but I felt like Civil War gave the New Warriors the most relevance they've ever had while only offing three? members (and two were pretty lame).

If you consider night thrasher lame than I would have to highly disagree. Also the only thing CW did was make them into a joke. Nothing good or relevant about it.

[Lord Bravery]

At some point you have you can't blame fanboyisms for just being a hater or a person that finds things to hate thats why they can't make no good comic movies cause the fanboy community is so busy trying to find things to hate they don't know what to like so in turn the movie people is like @#$! it they ain't going to like nothing we do anyway so take the x-men get there names and powers right pluck out the most popular ones and make up something ourselves.

just cause your favorite heroes may have got killed or or ended up crazy like speedball don't mean that it wasn't a engrossing story that you read to it was over and thats what it's about.

What? I couldn't give a toss about the New Warriors. I just don't appreciate characters being used as nothing more than plot devices.

But i know bad writing when i see it. Civil War was full of it. If you really want me to break it down for you, just let me know. Be forewarned though, it will be a pretty big post.

[Smoothesuede]

No character or set of characters will ever be "over" until they're dead, and sometimes not even then.

If someone's got a good idea, then by all means let them top off my New Warriors mug.

[G. Boney]

What was there to like as they were all overwritten and overcapable in some of the worst comicbook traditions and again it wasn't Civil War but the series before, Vol. 3, which had them in a reality show. Mostly the series read like the write-up of someone's superhero roleplaying game - chezz just look at the names for lameness - Rage, Hindsight Lad, the Soldiers of Misfortune, Night Thrasher...it is like a parody of comics.

Because before New Warriors comic book characters had heartfelt, meaningful names...like Paste Pot Pete, Matter Eater Lad and The Blob. http://emoticons4u.com/happy/050.gif



Sorry but I can't help but laugh at these add-ons to work them into the MU skin like some cheap tanning lotion. Still stinks after all the years and the layers of nostalgia that people have heaped on it. Next one's going ask about the poignancy of Vance's tragedy. The thing of it is like most history is that the reader has to live it along with the character not be told it happened.

As others have said, the things you are saying never happened actually did happen on panel in comic books years before the formation of the team. Continuity and all that.

[xheight]

What? I couldn't give a toss about the New Warriors. I just don't appreciate characters being used as nothing more than plot devices.

But i know bad writing when i see it. Civil War was full of it. If you really want me to break it down for you, just let me know. Be forewarned though, it will be a pretty big post.

I have to disagree if you are talking about the main parts of Civil War as written by Millar. I have been on these boards extensively myself pointing to the brilliant use of continuity, questioning genre conventions and the convergence of character lines in extremism with the allegorical political parallels. One could go on in the details and it has.

In short books of essays can be written about Civil War that will never grace a single one about any of the prior New Warriors storylines. The simple fact is that it is not due the obscurity but rather the quality of the work as the rule of lowest common contruct of genre material. Well... that might amount to one academic paper but I pity the soul that would put themself to it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I have to disagree if you are talking about the main parts of Civil War as written by Millar. I have been on these boards extensively myself pointing to the brilliant use of continuity, questioning genre conventions and the convergence of character lines in extremism with the allegorical political parallels. One could go on in the details and it has.

In short books of essays can be written about Civil War that will never grace a single one about any of the prior New Warriors storylines. The simple fact is that it is not due the obscurity but rather the quality of the work as the rule of lowest common contruct of genre material. Well... that might amount to one academic paper but I pity the soul that would put themself to it.

lol, where's you cut and paste that from?

I'm sorry, but there's no political symbolism in a Thor clone, Millar's plotting and pacing was the worst I've ever seen, the story structure didn't compliment the concept at all, and the ending was such a 180 from the build up that it doesn't qualify as anything other than an ass-pull.

Everyone, from the New Warriors to Captain America, where little more than plot devises, with little thought given towards logic or characterization.

[Lord Bravery]

Yup. Even if i completely ignore the shoddy treatment of the New Warriors, I can't point to pretty much every other character being written out of character.

Civil War was a great concept. But Millar didn't know how to execute that concept without fundamentaliy changing characters without using NATURAL character development.

"Ok so Thor is dead at the moment, but we need a big powerful heavy hitter. I know! We'll have Tony, Reed and Hank create a clone of their best friend! Even though going by decades of previous characterisations, they'd NEVER do that!"

Or how about treating their former friends and allies as even worse criminals than the actual bonafide villains?

"Ok, we usually just throw our bad guys in the Raft. But this time we'll throw our old friends into a inescapable prison in another dimension just because they don't like having their Constitutional Rights torn up!"

Or how about Steve Rogers, super soldier, master tactician, all round good guy, not having a fucking clue how to fight a war? And not having an "end game", which any military strategist or historian will tell you is the probably the most essential thing to have before going to war. Or what about Steve teaming up with Frank Castle, of all people!?!?

Or how about Spider-Man revealing his identity to the world?

Or how about Reed Richards telling Sue and Ben to basically go f themselves?

In short, terrible execution of a good concept. You don't change characters to fit your story, you write your story to fit the characters.

And this is me not even going into how poorly paced and poorly structured the event was.

[Vic Vega]

Look, the book at its core was about a group of teens deciding to do something about the world around them despite the lack of support of those that doubted them (The Avengers). So the book actually had a theme and was about something. In the current climate that is saying something.

So with a theme of idealism running thru the book the fact that nearly all the original characters have been dumped on pretty hard by life is a hook any halfway decent writer could build on.

One character is a cancer survivor (Firestar). One thru no fault of his own became one of the most hated men in America (Speedball); another regained a lost love only to lose it again (Nita). ), yet another character finally made peace with his family only to lose that (Night Thrasher). Rage and Turbo found themselves vilified by those that they protected (Timeslip was nearly lynched).

So the whole Blue Brothers-esq “getting the band back together” have could also other ramifications for the main characters who at this point could be said to have had the idealism thoroughly beaten out of them.

[guttcomics]

lol, where's you cut and paste that from?

I'm sorry, but there's no political symbolism in a Thor clone, Millar's plotting and pacing was the worst I've ever seen, the story structure didn't compliment the concept at all, and the ending was such a 180 from the build up that it doesn't qualify as anything other than an ass-pull.

Everyone, from the New Warriors to Captain America, where little more than plot devises, with little thought given towards logic or characterization.

First off I'm sorry when you read it you must of really wanted it to be Thor and felt betrayed when it wasn't but that's called plot it's not post to make you happy all the time it's post to do what it do and you post to follow don't you see now it wasn't Thor's time to come back yet from Disassembled to Siege it has been plotted. It was designed for you not to like it and not like the way it ended that's why it's great. Whit out CW being exactly the way it is Marvel is not the same period cause that's the way they wanted. Tony Stark's fall and rise, World War Hulk, the Secret Invasion, One More Day that don't happen whit out CW and a butch of other things I don't have time to mention but I'm sure it could be it's own thread.

[Lord Bravery]

You're acting as though Secret Invasion, WWH and OMD day are good things?

They're all trash.

The only good Marvel events this century have come from the cosmic line. Annihilation being one of the best comic book events that Marvel has ever put out.

[The Cool Thatguy]

First off I'm sorry when you read it you must of really wanted it to be Thor and felt betrayed when it wasn't but that's called plot it's not post to make you happy all the time it's post to do what it do and you post to follow don't you see now it wasn't Thor's time to come back yet from Disassembled to Siege it has been plotted. It was designed for you not to like it and not like the way it ended that's why it's great. Whit out CW being exactly the way it is Marvel is not the same period cause that's the way they wanted. Tony Stark's fall and rise, World War Hulk, the Secret Invasion, One More Day that don't happen whit out CW and a butch of other things I don't have time to mention but I'm sure it could be it's own thread.

First, I'd cut back on the running sentences, were I you. It makes it hard to make sense of your statements.

Second, the problem with Clor is that it's pulled out of nowhere and doesn't compliment the story at all. Clor's creation was a crime against nature, committed by people who are supposed to be heroes.

Clor was created for no other reason than to have Thor, Captain America and Iron Man involved in Civil War, but Millar couldn't do it in a fashion that actually made sense.

[Smoothesuede]

First off I'm sorry when you read it you must of really wanted it to be Thor and felt betrayed when it wasn't but that's called plot it's not post to make you happy all the time it's post to do what it do and you post to follow don't you see now it wasn't Thor's time to come back yet from Disassembled to Siege it has been plotted. It was designed for you not to like it and not like the way it ended that's why it's great. Whit out CW being exactly the way it is Marvel is not the same period cause that's the way they wanted. Tony Stark's fall and rise, World War Hulk, the Secret Invasion, One More Day that don't happen whit out CW and a butch of other things I don't have time to mention but I'm sure it could be it's own thread.:confused:

No I'm pretty sure that's just false.

[guttcomics]

First, I'd cut back on the running sentences, were I you. It makes it hard to make sense of your statements.

Second, the problem with Clor is that it's pulled out of nowhere and doesn't compliment the story at all. Clor's creation was a crime against nature, committed by people who are supposed to be heroes.

Clor was created for no other reason than to have Thor, Captain America and Iron Man involved in Civil War, but Millar couldn't do it in a fashion that actually made sense.

First off my bad I'm new to this I don't do a lot of writing except for rapping but that's just for me to read my bad give me time. But did you just say a crime against nature why wouldn't Tony take a sample of Thor.

Do you meet legendary Norse gods everyday? He said himself he a futurist he knew sooner or later it would come in handy. And Reed would help out of pure curiosity have we forgot why he's Mister Fantastic to begin with he's a scientist first and everything else second including friend, father, and husband.

And I would say the same for Pym but wasn't he a Skrull anyway at the time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

First off my bad I'm new to this I don't do a lot of writing except for rapping but that's just for me to read my bad give me time. But did you just say a crime against nature why wouldn't Tony take a sample of Thor.

Do you meet legendary Norse gods everyday? He said himself he a futurist he knew sooner or later it would come in handy. And Reed would help out of pure curiosity have we forgot why he's Mister Fantastic to begin with he's a scientist first and everything else second including friend, father, and husband.

And I would say the same for Pym but wasn't he a Skrull anyway at the time.

I said Clor, the clone of Thor was a crime against nature. And frankly, I shouldn't have to explain why. It should just be common sense, even though we are discussing elements of science fiction.

[Brandon McKinnis]

I'd like a team basically consisting of the Avengers Resistance. I'd buy a NW nook that featured that squad in an instant. At least put Scarlet Spider on the squad even if you're going to use mostly originals.

[Ebon]

Is their time over? Probably. None of them are kids anymore, and there has been just too much disruption. I get to see Justice and Speedball - my two favorite characters - in Avengers Academy and they both fit in that book very well. I can hope for another Nova series, I suppose, but he's moved past being a New Warrior into an entirely different class of hero.

I never liked Night Thrasher, and liked his brother even less in the mini/cancelled series.

I think you could and should bring together another team of young heroes looking to pal around together while they try to be superheroes (the trouble with this is that Marvel seems to love killing or disfiguring anyone under 18).

[Brandon McKinnis]

Is their time over? Probably. None of them are kids anymore, and there has been just too much disruption. I get to see Justice and Speedball - my two favorite characters - in Avengers Academy and they both fit in that book very well. I can hope for another Nova series, I suppose, but he's moved past being a New Warrior into an entirely different class of hero.

I never liked Night Thrasher, and liked his brother even less in the mini/cancelled series.

I think you could and should bring together another team of young heroes looking to pal around together while they try to be superheroes (the trouble with this is that Marvel seems to love killing or disfiguring anyone under 18).

I sort of hope they depower Nova a bit. I think it'd make him interesting to have had amazing power and been a chief player in huge universe saving battles but then have to return to pre-Annihilation power levels. He would either really enjoy it or feel inadequate, either of which would be awesome. Plus it'd also be interesting to have him interact with Speedball. It would be sort of like having a WWII hero and a broken Vietnam vet on the same team...the manner in which they perceive life now has to be miles apart.

[UKFan]

I sort of hope they depower Nova a bit. I think it'd make him interesting to have had amazing power and been a chief player in huge universe saving battles but then have to return to pre-Annihilation power levels. He would either really enjoy it or feel inadequate, either of which would be awesome. Plus it'd also be interesting to have him interact with Speedball. It would be sort of like having a WWII hero and a broken Vietnam vet on the same team...the manner in which they perceive life now has to be miles apart.

Like your analogy of WWII hero and broken Vietnam vet, and it could be good, but I never liked Nova as much as I do now, in space. Keep him there, even if it means he only gets infrequent use, because the new Nova is awesome sauce.

[Shadey10]

Also for me any NW team without Night Thrasher (the real one) is not a NW team so bring him back.

[Smoothesuede]

If you think a space hero with problems of inadequacy is entertaining, read Quasar. :tongue:

[Brandon McKinnis]

Like your analogy of WWII hero and broken Vietnam vet, and it could be good, but I never liked Nova as much as I do now, in space. Keep him there, even if it means he only gets infrequent use, because the new Nova is awesome sauce.

I like the newer version of Nova quite a bit but it seems like he's TOO powerful to play on Earth anymore. I'm sure a clever writer could balance him out so he could do both but I want to see him and the band back together.

[Nomads1]

New Warriors was a true gem of the 90's. Young people who actually wanted to do something to change the world, and not simply punch bad guys. They were written as articulate teens (something rare, but that you can find if you look for it). The series was full of fun thought provoking stories and quite a lot of social relevance, but I never felt like Fabian Nicienza was preaching. That single page in which Namorita puts in context the situation os the Amazon rain forrest was perfect, and much more acurate and relevant than anything that Millar wrote in the whole Civil War seven-issue mini-series (and I should know, seeing that I'm Brazilian and that was a reality that was very close to me). In it's 75 five issues, the new Warriors explored the unrestrained use of genetics, the polluting of the sea and of space, moral issues of leadership, such as when Thrash disbanded the Warriors because the didn't want to let a criminal go free in exchange for information on the murder of Dwayne's parents. The Trans-sibal (I think that was the name of the country) incident was a comment on the US foreign policy of sticking their noses in other peoples wars. I found the way the cycle of violence was explored with Vance and his family was very tastefuly done ( I wonder if he ever made peace with his mom) The street gang that kiddnapped and killed the Warriors families was impressively written and drawn, and so on. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more I could talk about in regards to the New Warriors first run, but it has been over ten years since I last read it. Fabian left with issue 51, I think, and although the writer was quite good, and tried to continue exploring social themes such as Fabe had been doing, in the end, he wasn't as good as Mr. Nicienza. Something else that made the transition hard was the artist that substituted Darrick Robertson. By the time Patrick Zircher came aboard, the mag had already lost many readers. Still, I do belive that it could have survived, had it not been entangled in that editorial mess of the mid-ninties that Marvel became, and been attached to the Spider-Man office, resulting in the Warriors involvement in Maximum Clonage, which only served to ruin even more the team.
I do believe that with the right creative team, the warriors could make a come back. Relevant social issues should continue to be a focal point of their stories, but maybe with a bit more conflict and secret agendas among the team. As for line-up, Night Thrasher should be brought back, the real one, Dwayne, not his incompetent brother. Thrash didn't die in Civil War. No way he would become bondage queen and participate in a reality show. It doesn't fit the character. Hence, the original is still alive, and in hidding somewhere. Maybe the reason for him staying hideden could be the hook for reuniting the team, part of those secret agendas I mentioned. From the old guard, I'd bring back Firestar, to try to keep Dwayne in check. Second generation NWs, Turbo and Darkhawk. DH still has that whole Raptor Society thing to sort out, and good stories could come from the Warriors involvemente in ths. From recent additions I'd go with Ultra-Girl, for muscle, and Scarlet Spider. Can you imagine the sparks that would fly with both of Vance's exs on the same team? Rounding up the team, someone to really butt heads with Thrash, serving as moral compass for the team (similar to what Nova did): Gravity.
There you have it. A powerful team with lots of interesting personalities to mix and shake. Of course, that's just my suggestion. I'm sure a competent writer would have many others to go with. If only they could gat Fabe back, the world would be perfect.:smile:

Peace

[Monty_Cristo]

Also for me any NW team without Night Thrasher (the real one) is not a NW team so bring him back.

^this, please.