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jackolover
04-15-2011, 05:53 PM
Well, Jonathan Hickman is certainly making us go and study, like we are back at school. Maybe Hickman should be a course in College? Remember this list?


I went through the first 5 issues and made some notes in a timeline form. Figured it would be fun to piece things together... if I left anything out, feel free to add it or suggest it be added:

2620 B.C. (Egypt) - Imhotep defeats The Brood and sparks the beginning of Shield.

114 A.D. (China) - It is revealed that Imhotep's Spear resides in China (in the east vs the Shield in the west). Zhang Heng learns, from a Celestial, that there is a Celestial embryo that lies dormant at the center of the Earth. It will, one day, give birth and consume the planet. Zhang Heng then proposes an alternative to the Celestial Mother, and suggests she give birth to her forbidden child in the Sun -- providing ample sustenance for the child.

750 A.D. (Baghdad) - Abu Musa Jabir Ibn Hayyan Al Azdi creates a device but is killed in the (seemingly) failed process of activation.

1495 A.D. (Florence) - da Vinci along with his apprentices Pietro & Lorenzo notice the 'figure in the Sun' - the Celestial Mother prior to the birth of her child.

1503 A.D. (Florence) - da Vinci completes his latest invention, The Human Machine.

1582 A.D. (Rome) - Galileo's invention is complete under the direction of The Forever Man. The invention, the same as the one Jabir ibn Hayyan attempted to use in 750 A.D., is used to defeat Galactus by creating a second Earth for him to consume.

16?? A.D. (England) - Shield, under the direction of Galileo, brings Isaac Newton into the brotherhood.

1625 A.D. (Ashomia, The Deviant City) - Newton, at the request of Galileo, searches for his inner truth and ends up a prisoner of the Deviants where he is forced to bed the Deviant woman Morda due to his unique genetic makeup. This union produces a son. Newton, before he escapes, steals the words off a Deviant holy book.

1645 A.D. (France) - The Forever Man comes to Nostradamus and informs him that he must endure as a captive of Newton for 500 years and await a boy with stars beneath his skin (Leonid).

1652 A.D. (France) - Nostradamus is taken prisoner by Newton (who he refers to as 'sorcerer') and given The Forever Compound (a derivative of The Infinity Formula -- one that will ensure Nostradamus lives on although his body and mind will decay).

1951 A.D. - Agents Howard Stark & Nathaniel Richards are recruited to join Shield. They say goodbye to their families and are given their first mission: to secure The Forever Machine's of Nikola Tesla.

1953 A.D. (New York) - Agents Howard Stark & Nathaniel Richards procure a teenage Leonid (the son of Nikola Tesla, The Night Machine, and possibly one of his Forever Machines) to the Immortal City in Rome.

1956 A.D. (The Immortal City, Rome) - The Night Machine (Nikola Tesla) comes to visit his 'son' Leonid and give him the lost key to enter Iter and meet his destiny -- a meeting with Leonardo da Vinci.

da Vinci unlocks Leonid's mind and names him 'The Eternal Dynamo, the Source of the Machine,' (The Eternal Dynamo is one of Nikola Tesla's Forever Machine's) and Leonid learns he is the son of Newton and Morda, the Deviant woman. The Forever Man is given the child and brings him to Nikola Tesla to raise until the time when two men (Stark & Richards) will come to take him away.

The Night Machine engages in a battle with Agent's Stark & Richards. Stark names The Night Machine as 'The Mechanism.' Nathaniel Richards, in an attempt to stop The Night Machine, is transported to the future along with Howard Stark and The Night Machine himself.

da Vinci tells Leonid that The Night Machine, Agents Stark & Richards will return in three years and be changed by the experience. He also says that he has been told these things by The Forever Man and names him as 'The Engine of the Machine.' da Vinci also names himself as 'the Builder.'

Newton receives a prophecy from Nostradamus:

The sounds of war echo in the sky:
Soon the son of Eternity returns:
Soon the child of the Stars is born:
Fate or free will, The Mechanism reveals.
Change is not coming... it is here!

Newton arrives to find da Vinci present at The High Council of Shield who tells Newton that he has returned to deliver The Human Machine. He shows the Brotherhood the same device that he created in 1503. The device, The Human Machine, hovers in the council room and remains there.

da Vinci then gives counsel to Leonid once more in Iter before setting off toward the Sun where he witnesses the birth of The Star Child from the Celestial Mother who was sent there by Zhang Heng in 114 A.D.

Leonid follows da Vinci's instructions and finds the hidden chamber in the council room and speaks with a man who reveals himself as Nostradamus, The Catalyst. And the Architect of Revelation.

1957 A.D. - The Star Child grows at an advanced rate. da Vinci's invention, The Human Machine, begins to change. Hydrogen to Helium. Newton begins construction of The Century Machine (a doomsday clock) in the center of the Immortal City.

1958 A.D. - The Star Child continues to grow. The Brotherhood of the Shield begins to split, some follow da Vinci while others remain loyal to Newton. The Human Machine continues to grow: Hydrogen to Helium.

1959 A.D. - The Star Child has an awakening and understands that Hope follows da Vinci's path while Fate follows that of Newton. The Human Machine grows again. Helium to Carbon.

da Vinci's prophecy, from The Forever Man, says that The Night Machine will return and be changed from his previous form in this year.

1960 A.D. - da Vinci seems to have secured the majority of followers. The Star Child now understands that da Vinci's path leads to Eternity while following Newton leads to the end of the world. The Human Machine changes again. Carbon to Oxygen. Newton's Century Machine is complete.

Nostradamus stands at the center of the Immortal City with The Star Child & Leonid and gives another prophecy:

Armies will be heard clashing within the Earth:
that very same year, completion and schism
one hundred years one hundred years one hundred years...
the drums of war and the sum of all fears.

5,000-6,000 years in the future - Agents Stark & Richards find the dying body of The Night Machine, finally revealed to be Nikola Tesla, along with an alien woman capable of changing form into a dove in what appears to be the ruins of a city ruled by Immortus/Kang.

The Prophecies of Nostradamus:

In the place very near not far from sands and tides,
the three greatest ones of Asia rest,
from Minaret to Monarchy flows the hidden knowledge,
navigation and The Last Caliphate.

(The above prophecy seems to reference the 3 'parts' of The Navigator -- the 3rd piece of The Human Machine.)

The rule is left to two, they will hold it for a very short time,
after three years and seven months they will go to war.
The vessels of the first flee to hidden lands,
the victor born on American soil.

Near the walls a war between two armies,
there will happen two scourges the like of which was never before seen,
famine, pestilence within, people put out by the sword.
Then cry for help from the greatest immortal gun.

From the east the spear falls to the beast,
it shall call to the blood of the Gorgon,
and for a time it will fall silent,
then it shall burn brilliant, betrayal and vengeance.

The Human Machine:

(1) The Anchor: The Sacrifice. The Man left behind. The Builder. - Leonardo da Vinci & The Star Child

(2) The Engine: The Drive. Total Illumination. The Agent of Destiny. - The Forever Man

(3) The Navigator: What is, what has come before, and what will be. The last Caliphate.

(4) The Source: The Water in the Well. The Generator. Hope. - Leonid

(5) The Mechanism: The Short End of All Possibility. Practical Application. The Work. - The Night Machine

(6) The Conduit: The Change Medium. The Measurement of Progress.

(7) The Path: The Death of Chaos. The Single Portion. Tomorrow.

Also, The Foetus of God seems to be the opposite of The Human Machine. Leonid is at the core of The Human Machine while The Star Child is at the core of The Foetus of God ("The Star Child spins against the axis of The Human Machine"). The core of The Foetus of God is the first part of The Human Machine.

Well Hickman just added to it. And if you look up to Nostradamus' first prophecy, (in the above post), it tells about the 3 from Asia. Well we meet these 3 in this issue, and they are slowly coming alive again, to show the way.

You'll also notice in the first stanza to S.H.I.E.L.D. OMEGA, that when Leonardo da Vinci goes to the lecture basement in Florence, that there are 14 statues behind him on stage, and this is 1497, so you'll notice some are future statues of men in different clothes and holding guns.

The artwork of Zachary Baldus is amazing - just look at the close up of Nostradamus's face in that panel.

We are given a connection between Secret Warriors #25 and S.H.I.E.L.D. OMEGA in this issue, when Night Machine comes upon the same chambers, and it happens because we are given pages of Hickmans script where he mentions this.

There are also some enlightening insights into Isaac Newton's jealousy.

It may be worth updating the above post with the new information from this book.

One question remains for me and that is how come Leonid and the Star Child aren't the same thing?

jackolover
04-15-2011, 06:06 PM
So what do I think is happening? I think the current Nick Fury S.H.I.E.L.D. is the continuation of the process of LDV, to ensure that 'MAN' achieves his true potential into eternity. Hydra is there as the influence of the Century Machine that Newton constructed, and there is this intense struggle between the two for dominance. It's incredible that the Future Man pinpointed that 1960 was the moment in 'MAN'S' history where all the moments of history converged. Is this because this point of time, 1960, was the framing moment when Stan Lee's Heroic Age began and this was the catalyst for all the Avenger saga's to perpetuate S.H.I.E.L.D's agenda? I wonder if the 4th wall is being broken here?

Jason Abbadon
04-15-2011, 09:04 PM
The rule is left to two, they will hold it for a very short time,
after three years and seven months they will go to war.
The vessels of the first flee to hidden lands,
the victor born on American soil.

Possibly a reference to the first Zodiac meeting's outcome- the splitting of technologies among the three factions with Nick coming out on top- keeping some cylinders(?) and occupying Pieta while Leviathian was iced and Strucker survived to form HYDRA with at least something to show for it.
Imhotep's spear at the least.




From the east the spear falls to the beast,
it shall call to the blood of the Gorgon,
and for a time it will fall silent,
then it shall burn brilliant, betrayal and vengeance.

This might refer to Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of The State introducing (and then killing) Gorgon, HYDRA activity being pretty minimal for a while (prior to Secret Invasion) then HYDRA's re-formation, Gorgon's resurection and the ensuing conflict.

Moose100
04-15-2011, 10:01 PM
Possibly a reference to the first Zodiac meeting's outcome- the splitting of technologies among the three factions with Nick coming out on top- keeping some cylinders(?) and occupying Pieta while Leviathian was iced and Strucker survived to form HYDRA with at least something to show for it.
Imhotep's spear at the least.




This might refer to Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of The State introducing (and then killing) Gorgon, HYDRA activity being pretty minimal for a while (prior to Secret Invasion) then HYDRA's re-formation, Gorgon's resurection and the ensuing conflict.

Whered u get these quotes from?

Jason Abbadon
04-15-2011, 10:12 PM
Whered u get these quotes from?

The first post has this:
The Prophecies of Nostradamus:

In the place very near not far from sands and tides,
the three greatest ones of Asia rest,
from Minaret to Monarchy flows the hidden knowledge,
navigation and The Last Caliphate.

(The above prophecy seems to reference the 3 'parts' of The Navigator -- the 3rd piece of The Human Machine.)

The rule is left to two, they will hold it for a very short time,
after three years and seven months they will go to war.
The vessels of the first flee to hidden lands,
the victor born on American soil.

Near the walls a war between two armies,
there will happen two scourges the like of which was never before seen,
famine, pestilence within, people put out by the sword.
Then cry for help from the greatest immortal gun.

From the east the spear falls to the beast,
it shall call to the blood of the Gorgon,
and for a time it will fall silent,
then it shall burn brilliant, betrayal and vengeance.

Moose100
04-15-2011, 10:29 PM
The first post has this:
The Prophecies of Nostradamus:

In the place very near not far from sands and tides,
the three greatest ones of Asia rest,
from Minaret to Monarchy flows the hidden knowledge,
navigation and The Last Caliphate.

(The above prophecy seems to reference the 3 'parts' of The Navigator -- the 3rd piece of The Human Machine.)

The rule is left to two, they will hold it for a very short time,
after three years and seven months they will go to war.
The vessels of the first flee to hidden lands,
the victor born on American soil.

Near the walls a war between two armies,
there will happen two scourges the like of which was never before seen,
famine, pestilence within, people put out by the sword.
Then cry for help from the greatest immortal gun.

From the east the spear falls to the beast,
it shall call to the blood of the Gorgon,
and for a time it will fall silent,
then it shall burn brilliant, betrayal and vengeance.

I mean r they from the captions in the book? What issue?

Moose100
04-15-2011, 10:33 PM
I mean r they from the captions in the book? What issue?

Oh thats right these r from Nostradamus`

Jason Abbadon
04-15-2011, 10:37 PM
It's from the SHIELD comics- not the real life historical Nostradamus- and I dont know the exact issue(s)- probably #1- it had a lot of supplimental materail.

Moose100
04-15-2011, 10:39 PM
It's from the SHIELD comics- not the real life historical Nostradamus- and I dont know the exact issue(s)- probably #1- it had a lot of supplimental materail.

I'm on a comics fast so I havent picked up SHEILD INFINITY. What is SHIELD OMEGA???

maniacmatt
04-15-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm on a comics fast so I havent picked up SHEILD INFINITY. What is SHIELD OMEGA???

OP just messed up. It's infinity. A mod should probably change the title.

TonyStark1012
04-15-2011, 10:52 PM
OP just messed up. It's infinity. A mod should probably change the title.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Moose100
04-15-2011, 10:53 PM
Ok cool :biggrin::cool:

maniacmatt
04-15-2011, 11:25 PM
Exactly what I was thinking.

Great minds and all that.:cool:

jackolover
04-15-2011, 11:32 PM
Yes, please Mod, change Omega to Infinity:redface:

Also, can Hickman justify the 1602 Marvels in his timeline? I mean, is there some reason why the Marvels were created as early as 1602, like the Marvels were created in 1961? In 1961, you could argue that LDV won the fight with Newton, so that LDV got the chance to mess with 'Man', and start a new evolution. In 1602, just before Newton was brought into the Brotherhood, was it possible LDV wasnted to augment the earths defences after the Galactus attack was thwarted in 1582?

jackolover
04-15-2011, 11:35 PM
Possibly a reference to the first Zodiac meeting's outcome- the splitting of technologies among the three factions with Nick coming out on top- keeping some cylinders(?) and occupying Pieta while Leviathian was iced and Strucker survived to form HYDRA with at least something to show for it.
Imhotep's spear at the least.

I agree with this connection. 1956 to 1960 would fit the time gap mentioned.





This might refer to Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of The State introducing (and then killing) Gorgon, HYDRA activity being pretty minimal for a while (prior to Secret Invasion) then HYDRA's re-formation, Gorgon's resurection and the ensuing conflict.

With this I am thinking more the latest Secret Warriors between #20 and 24, where the Gorgon was most active against the aims of SHIELD (or the Howlers).

Near the walls a war between two armies,
there will happen two scourges the like of which was never before seen,
famine, pestilence within, people put out by the sword.
Then cry for help from the greatest immortal gun.

This stanza? I think this was the Skrull war and Norman Osborn killing the Skrull Queen with a gun.

maniacmatt
04-15-2011, 11:43 PM
Yes, please Mod, change Omega to Infinity:redface:

Also, can Hickman justify the 1602 Marvels in his timeline? I mean, is there some reason why the Marvels were created as early as 1602, like the Marvels were created in 1961? In 1961, you could argue that LDV won the fight with Newton, so that LDV got the chance to mess with 'Man', and start a new evolution. In 1602, just before Newton was brought into the Brotherhood, was it possible LDV wasnted to augment the earths defences after the Galactus attack was thwarted in 1582?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but 1602 is definitely not in continuity.

Jason Abbadon
04-16-2011, 12:16 AM
Near the walls a war between two armies,
there will happen two scourges the like of which was never before seen,
famine, pestilence within, people put out by the sword.
Then cry for help from the greatest immortal gun.

This stanza? I think this was the Skrull war and Norman Osborn killing the Skrull Queen with a gun.

I dont know...I think Hickman might be making a connect to the War of Four Cities thing he's working in FF...and the "greatest immortal gun" could be anything from a particular person to the Ultimate Nullifier to Galileo's bigass world-creator thinger.

But tha's the allure of Nostradamus' quatrains- they're so vague that anything can be shoehorned to fit them.

jackolover
04-16-2011, 01:30 AM
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but 1602 is definitely not in continuity.

For one, I think the Silver Age forming in 1961, might be deliberate, and that Hickman is giving S.H.I.E.L.D. a reason to make super people appear. For another, S.H.I.E.L.D., may be able to form Marvels at different points in history and that super heroes may be the Human Engine.

In one way, I'm sad to hear that about 1602 , because I would like it to be in-continuity, so Hickman has a reason that Marvels needed to be given a trial run in 1602. In another way, I am not surprised 1602 is not in-continuity.

jackolover
04-16-2011, 01:31 AM
I dont know...I think Hickman might be making a connect to the War of Four Cities thing he's working in FF...and the "greatest immortal gun" could be anything from a particular person to the Ultimate Nullifier to Galileo's bigass world-creator thinger.

But tha's the allure of Nostradamus' quatrains- they're so vague that anything can be shoehorned to fit them.

At this stage it is too early to call, so until we get more clues, we''ll have to wait on this one.

Edit : Thanks for the heading correction, mod.

Habis
06-10-2012, 06:50 PM
Do you know if Jonathan Hickman has explained somewhere what was the machine of Jabir supposed to do? It seems that its purpose was to turn an ordinary man into a god, and that is something I can see many people of the main continuity trying to do (for example, Red Skull, Dr. Doom or the Intelligentsia).

Static-Pulse
06-12-2012, 12:09 PM
I dont know...I think Hickman might be making a connect to the War of Four Cities thing he's working in FF...and the "greatest immortal gun" could be anything from a particular person to the Ultimate Nullifier to Galileo's bigass world-creator thinger.

Oh, oh, oh! It's that thing the four Reeds built. Hammer of Sol? Forge of Sol? Valeria's first words in FF #16 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=11850) are a mirror of the mantra of what SHIELD says during every crisis. That was how the world ended, except it didn't.

anthony!
06-12-2012, 12:26 PM
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but 1602 is definitely not in continuity.

I thought 1602 was in continuity... wasn't the Watcher "given" the 1602 universe by his superiors after restoring the proper timeline? That would mean the 1602-universe is sitting on a shelf somewhere in Uatu's pad, all within the 616 universe.

That is, if the "proper" timeline in the story (where Captain American originates before being sent back to the year 1602), was really the 616. It's certainly possible it wasn't, given the dystopia that Cap describes. Those events haven't happened...

Joe Acro
06-12-2012, 02:26 PM
I thought 1602 was in continuity... wasn't the Watcher "given" the 1602 universe by his superiors after restoring the proper timeline? That would mean the 1602-universe is sitting on a shelf somewhere in Uatu's pad, all within the 616 universe.
Assuming that was 616 Uatu, anyway.

satchmo the dragon
06-12-2012, 07:35 PM
So disappointed in this. Hickman didn't know how to end it so he just gave up.

Frank
06-12-2012, 10:40 PM
It's funny how the rare moments when today's writers show creativity that it becomes too much for their little brains and they give up. Congrats, lads!

Telos
06-12-2012, 10:45 PM
So disappointed in this. Hickman didn't know how to end it so he just gave up.

You know it hasn't ended yet, don't you? It's extremely late but still in production. Hickman confirmed in one of the AvX interviews that the next issue was at the time being penciled by Dustin Weaver.

satchmo the dragon
06-13-2012, 02:56 PM
You know it hasn't ended yet, don't you? It's extremely late but still in production. Hickman confirmed in one of the AvX interviews that the next issue was at the time being penciled by Dustin Weaver.

I didn't see that. I would love to be proven wrong on this. But why did weaver start drawing xmen in the first place?