Pokemon Black and White: The Problem with Ash

[thecrimson]

Is it just me or does Ash seem to forget almost everything he's learned on his journey at the beginning of each new region?

In Black and White, he has forgotten that you can't just throw a Pokeball at a Pokemon and catch it, you have to weaken it.

Any strategy that he learned from his previous travels has also mysteriously vanished. He keeps pitting disadvantaged Pokemon against Pokemon that have an advantage over that type, so he's always done that before, but usually because he knew that a battle has more to do than just the types.

Also, Iris keeps calling him on all his decisions; she calls him a kid. Kinda wish he would stand up and tell her about his journeys before coming to Unova, but other than the one reference in episode 4 where Officer Jenny asks why a Kanto region organization like Team Rocket is doing in Unova, there hasn't been any reference to his previous travels. (Though it is early in the new season)

EDIT: You can also discuss any spin-off topics such as 4Kids.

[C. Earl]

IMO, Black and White is almost a soft reboot. It doesn't really jettison anything that came before, but it's done in such a way that it still could be someone's first Pokemon series, including reconning Ash as somewhat of a newbie...

[thecrimson]

IMO, Black and White is almost a soft reboot. It doesn't really jettison anything that came before, but it's done in such a way that it still could be someone's first Pokemon series, including reconning Ash as somewhat of a newbie...

I guess that makes sense, besides the Team Rocket thing.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Obviously Team Rocket has somehow absorbed Ash's competence and strength into themselves. They're still somewhat restricted by the laws of cartoon villains but they work around that stuff now.

[thecrimson]

Obviously Team Rocket has somehow absorbed Ash's competence and strength into themselves. They're still somewhat restricted by the laws of cartoon villains but they work around that stuff now.

Lol, this made me chuckle.

[master of read]

Obviously Team Rocket has somehow absorbed Ash's competence and strength into themselves. They're still somewhat restricted by the laws of cartoon villains but they work around that stuff now.

i buy this. mostly because so far, i'm not digging BW, mostly how uber stupid ash is acting.

[Legato]

i buy this. mostly because so far, i'm not digging BW, mostly how uber stupid ash is acting.

They really should just ditch Ash and have a Team Rocket series since they are the ones that got the most character development out of the whole series. Although I could be saying this cause I like Team Rocket a little better than the protagonist

[Hazard]

To answer the Op, it is the fault of the writers.

See, the underdog story is one that is not only appealing, but also pretty easy to write (relatively). Everyone loves an underdog and all that.

Resetting Ash to newbie level is the way the writers keep the underdog story. It is a lot easier than trying to keep find out new ways of telling the story with an Ash that gets increasingly stronger each season.

Look at Johto. That's pretty much the point where the writers figure out they can't have Ash be too strong.

They had to upgrade the first gym leader otherwise Ash would have stomped him. Ash who was good enough trainer to have Charizard obey him was just plain to strong to be taking on gym leaders.

They take Charizard away from him soon after that. Then they take his other Kanto pokemon little by little and leave him with the pokemon he used in that area.

Later seasons try to be more subtle with the whole "starting fresh and leaving all other pokemon but Pikachu (damn mascot. Why couldn't he have taken Gible? Why?)

So yeah, it is lazy writing.

[master of read]

To answer the Op, it is the fault of the writers.

See, the underdog story is one that is not only appealing, but also pretty easy to write (relatively). Everyone loves an underdog and all that.

Resetting Ash to newbie level is the way the writers keep the underdog story. It is a lot easier than trying to keep find out new ways of telling the story with an Ash that gets increasingly stronger each season.

Look at Johto. That's pretty much the point where the writers figure out they can't have Ash be too strong.

They had to upgrade the first gym leader otherwise Ash would have stomped him. Ash who was good enough trainer to have Charizard obey him was just plain to strong to be taking on gym leaders.

They take Charizard away from him soon after that. Then they take his other Kanto pokemon little by little and leave him with the pokemon he used in that area.

Later seasons try to be more subtle with the whole "starting fresh and leaving all other pokemon but Pikachu (damn mascot. Why couldn't he have taken Gible? Why?)

So yeah, it is lazy writing.

because gible is win!

[master of read]

They really should just ditch Ash and have a Team Rocket series since they are the ones that got the most character development out of the whole series. Although I could be saying this cause I like Team Rocket a little better than the protagonist

i would've preferred if they just gave the show a new protagonists, like yugioh did. last season would've been he perfect final season for ash since it was the best one, in terms of character development and story.

i mean, what happened to the couter shield?!

[The Dog]

Honestly, I agree with the new protagonist idea for each region idea myself.

Because last season's tournament arc proved that they just don't give a damn after Ash beats (insert rival here), and are looking for a reason to have Ash lose so they can move to the next region. I mean seriously, his next opponent has TWO LEGENDARIES?

Why not just have the ref perform a coin toss to decide the winner if you're not going to even bother trying to make it fair.

That'd be like if Daniel-san vs. Johnny wasn't the last fight in Karate Kid, and after Daniel-san defeats Johnny, he has to go up against Chuck Norris or Royce Gracie or something.

[Hazard]

That'd be like if Daniel-san vs. Johnny wasn't the last fight in Karate Kid, and after Daniel-san defeats Johnny, he has to go up against Chuck Norris or Royce Gracie or something.

Don't know about that. "None can defend" after all.

[Oblivion87]

because gible is win!

And we all know Ash can't have any of that.

[Vaiyt]

Is it just me or does Ash seem to forget almost everything he's learned on his journey at the beginning of each new region?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/24427597_0cba60d473_o.jpg

Next time, you're gonna ask why Ash never ages.

[Nik Hasta]

Fun little fact for you guys.

Not counting movies and specials or any of Black and White so far, there have been 686 episodes of Pokemon so far. Ash was ten years old when he first set out on his journey and, as confirmed with the opening of Black and White, he's still only ten years old.

This means that less than 365 days have passed since his journey began, assuming that he started on his tenth birthday and that Black and White starts on the day before his eleventh just for the highest possible number.

So if we work it out; this means that, ignoring the fact that some episode stories took place over several days obviously, that Ash has been having a minimum of 1.8 major events per day every day since he left Pallet Town.

No wonder he's not a very good trainer, he's clearly just too tired to actually train his Pokemon.

[LordEd1976]

Fun little fact for you guys.

Not counting movies and specials or any of Black and White so far, there have been 686 episodes of Pokemon so far. Ash was ten years old when he first set out on his journey and, as confirmed with the opening of Black and White, he's still only ten years old.

This means that less than 365 days have passed since his journey began, assuming that he started on his tenth birthday and that Black and White starts on the day before his eleventh just for the highest possible number.

So if we work it out; this means that, ignoring the fact that some episode stories took place over several days obviously, that Ash has been having a minimum of 1.8 major events per day every day since he left Pallet Town.

No wonder he's not a very good trainer, he's clearly just too tired to actually train his Pokemon.


What a second, there's an episode in the second season where Ash returns to Viridian City and its stated its been a year since he was first there.

[The Dog]

Fun little fact for you guys.

Not counting movies and specials or any of Black and White so far, there have been 686 episodes of Pokemon so far. Ash was ten years old when he first set out on his journey and, as confirmed with the opening of Black and White, he's still only ten years old.

This means that less than 365 days have passed since his journey began, assuming that he started on his tenth birthday and that Black and White starts on the day before his eleventh just for the highest possible number.

So if we work it out; this means that, ignoring the fact that some episode stories took place over several days obviously, that Ash has been having a minimum of 1.8 major events per day every day since he left Pallet Town.

No wonder he's not a very good trainer, he's clearly just too tired to actually train his Pokemon.

Actually, its been several years, Ash just never ages beyond ten. Because his body is host to some kind of strange paradox that keeps him and his compatriots from aging.

Either that, or he's an immortal stuck at the age of 10, which would really suck considering he's too young to have sex, drink, drive, or... really do anything besides train Pokemon. Hell, that's all he really has to do, so there's no reason for him to suck as bad as he does.

[C. Earl]

Actually, its been several years, Ash just never ages beyond ten. Because his body is host to some kind of strange paradox that keeps him and his compatriots from aging.

Either that, or he's an immortal stuck at the age of 10...
There can be only one!
http://planetsmilies.net/violent-smiley-1397.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[Nik Hasta]

What a second, there's an episode in the second season where Ash returns to Viridian City and its stated its been a year since he was first there.

Looks like we just entered:

http://users.tellurian.net/dano/plot_hole.gif

[Legato]

Actually, its been several years, Ash just never ages beyond ten. Because his body is host to some kind of strange paradox that keeps him and his compatriots from aging.

Either that, or he's an immortal stuck at the age of 10, which would really suck considering he's too young to have sex, drink, drive, or... really do anything besides train Pokemon. Hell, that's all he really has to do, so there's no reason for him to suck as bad as he does.

As a famous singer once said. "Who wants to live forever"

[The Dog]

Looks like we just entered:

http://users.tellurian.net/dano/plot_hole.gif

Oh God, not that place. Its not safe! Its full of continuity errors, badly-written retcons, asspulls, and character derailment!

Also, its Demonic Spiders (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DemonicSpiders) country.

[OverMaster]

Considering how the show's creators have stated they'll NEVER give Ash any closure or real lasting character growth as long as the show makes them money, it's a waste of time to invest any personal interest on it. But as a way to kill time watching the occasional episode, it's always good.

[thecrimson]

Actually, its been several years, Ash just never ages beyond ten. Because his body is host to some kind of strange paradox that keeps him and his compatriots from aging.

Either that, or he's an immortal stuck at the age of 10, which would really suck considering he's too young to have sex, drink, drive, or... really do anything besides train Pokemon. Hell, that's all he really has to do, so there's no reason for him to suck as bad as he does.

I read somewhere that he was said to be 11 in the third Pokemon movie.

[thecrimson]

Considering how the show's creators have stated they'll NEVER give Ash any closure or real lasting character growth as long as the show makes them money, it's a waste of time to invest any personal interest on it. But as a way to kill time watching the occasional episode, it's always good.

When did they say that?

[thecrimson]

Considering how the show's creators have stated they'll NEVER give Ash any closure or real lasting character growth as long as the show makes them money, it's a waste of time to invest any personal interest on it. But as a way to kill time watching the occasional episode, it's always good.

When did they say that?

[Len Ikari145]

Considering how the show's creators have stated they'll NEVER give Ash any closure or real lasting character growth as long as the show makes them money, it's a waste of time to invest any personal interest on it. But as a way to kill time watching the occasional episode, it's always good.

Too bad after over ten years of mediocrity with the occasional "good" episode and the movies, I've lost nearly all interest in Pokemon. Hell, the only reason I'm even up-to-date with the new episodes is because my Pokemon fanatic cousin and little brother insists on informing on all the new developments of the series(whether I wanna listen or not.:mad:). I'm happy to hear that Team Rocket's finally regained their former season 1 competency and then some, but it's ten seasons too late for me to care anymore.

As for Nintendo admitting to "milking the cow" as it were, eh, at least they're honest about it(I don't approve it, especially since they fired the original writers of Pokemon after Johto, but what're ya gonna do? *shrugs*) You'd never get that kind of admittance from Square-Enix about Final Fantasy VII.

[Kevin M.]

Considering how the show's creators have stated they'll NEVER give Ash any closure or real lasting character growth as long as the show makes them money, it's a waste of time to invest any personal interest on it. But as a way to kill time watching the occasional episode, it's always good.



By this time, one would think that Misy, and him would have had a family by now.

[Vaiyt]

The whole strategy of the Pokémon anime is to reel in new viewers. If some people get tired of the show going nowhere and stop watching after a couple seasons, there's always more kids coming.

[Hazard]

The whole strategy of the Pokémon anime is to reel in new viewers. If some people get tired of the show going nowhere and stop watching after a couple seasons, there's always more kids coming.

Those fiends! :mad:

[Legato]

Those fiends! :mad:

Given the kids attention spans it's only a matter of time before Pokemon stops becoming the hottest thing on television. Still I do commend them for opening up about that fact

[OverMaster]

Given the kids attention spans it's only a matter of time before Pokemon stops becoming the hottest thing on television

Well, Doraemon runs on the same repetitive, stale formula, and it's been going ever since the 1970s.

[Len Ikari145]

Well, Doraemon runs on the same repetitive, stale formula, and it's been going ever since the 1970s.

It's still around?:confused::eek:

I thought it stopped producing new episodes in 2007.

[Castel]

Given the kids attention spans it's only a matter of time before Pokemon stops becoming the hottest thing on television

You know i heard the very same thing in 1997.

Those dudes sure know how to milk money out of a franchise i tell ya.

[OverMaster]

It's still around?:confused::eek:

I thought it stopped producing new episodes in 2007.

IIRC, they just stopped a stage of the series, retiring the far too old already voice actors and replacing them with new ones for the immediate relaunch (including Kotono "Sailor Moon" Mitsuishi as Nobita's mother).

And besides, even if it had stopped then, it'd still have lasted three decades.

[Vaiyt]

You know i heard the very same thing in 1997.
Talk about it. I hear people saying "Pokeman is dead" since at least the third generation of games.

[Black Heaven]

By this time, one would think that Misy, and him would have had a family by now.

Screw Kasumi, GO HARUKA, lol. Yeah i agree though that they finally gave up on the long time fans who have watched the show for 10 freakin' years :mad: and gone to the younger kids who watch it on and off if at all because it sucks compared to most other anime now or days. I think they just told the writers heres the first season revamp it so we can use it again but make it look like its a new season and the writers were all like wow we don't actually have to work, hurray. I was seriously pissed when i heard Iris was gonna be ashes booty and not Touko.

[master of read]

i just cant get into BW. its so....................blah. none of the characters are interesting any more. and the new rival is just how gary was years ago.

[thecrimson]

i just cant get into BW. its so....................blah. none of the characters are interesting any more. and the new rival is just how gary was years ago.

I'm hating Iris for calling Ash a kid after all he's been through, and his rival going on about basics.

[master of read]

I'm hating Iris for calling Ash a kid after all he's been through, and his rival going on about basics.

i dont really care for iris either. coming off dawn, she's just bland beyond reason.

and cilan is just a poor man's brock. such a tool.


the only think i can like about BW is that team rocket got their balls back.

[thecrimson]

i dont really care for iris either. coming off dawn, she's just bland beyond reason.

and cilan is just a poor man's brock. such a tool.


the only think i can like about BW is that team rocket got their balls back.

Definitely. I really miss Misty.

Cilan is kind of annoying.

Team Rocket is really kick ass this season. I really wish, however, that they would reference Ash's past adventures.

[master of read]

Definitely. I really miss Misty.

Cilan is kind of annoying.

Team Rocket is really kick ass this season.


i miss dawn more. she was interesting and fun.

brock may have been a skirt chaser but he was still deep and awesome. cilan is just too...................i just dont like him.

and i miss paul too. never thought i'd say this but he was truly ash's greatest rival.

[thecrimson]

i miss dawn more. she was interesting and fun.

brock may have been a skirt chaser but he was still deep and awesome. cilan is just too...................i just dont like him.

and i miss paul too. never thought i'd say this but he was truly ash's greatest rival.

Dawn was ok, but she's way better than Iris.

Paul was awesome! He had attitude, but he deserved it. This new guy is ragging on Ash, but he's just started himself, right?

[master of read]

Dawn was ok, but she's way better than Iris.

Paul was awesome! He had attitude, but he deserved it. This new guy is ragging on Ash, but he's just started himself, right?

true. at least dawn had the greatest respect and admiration from ash. iris is just arrogant for no reason. but considering how stupid they made ash this time, its kinda understandable.

of course, paul was awesome! he's been around. not to mention he was fuckin' brilliant as a trainer when it came to plans and tactics. for someone like ash, who was a genius at creative and insane battle tactics, paul was the perfect rival for him.

not to mention he had balls. challenging the two strongest pokemon trainers on earth? that's ballsy.

[thecrimson]

true. at least dawn had the greatest respect and admiration from ash. iris is just arrogant for no reason. but considering how stupid they made ash this time, its kinda understandable.

of course, paul was awesome! he's been around. not to mention he was fuckin' brilliant as a trainer when it came to plans and tactics. for someone like ash, who was a genius at creative and insane battle tactics, paul was the perfect rival for him.

not to mention he had balls. challenging the two strongest pokemon trainers on earth? that's ballsy.

Yeah, definitely!

Oh, how Pokemon has fallen recently. The writers are getting pretty lazy. I'm going to keep tuning in, but every episode is like getting my teeth pulled.

[master of read]

Yeah, definitely!

Oh, how Pokemon has fallen recently. The writers are getting pretty lazy. I'm going to keep tuning in, but every episode is like getting my teeth pulled.


i know. i use to wake up early in the morning to watch DP because it was the first series that caught my attention and kept me interested with the story, battles, characters, everything.

now, when i watch BW, i feel sad. like the magic is gone. nothing about it interest me any more. watching now is like a chore. it would've been better to just have a new lead in the show.

[thecrimson]

i know. i use to wake up early in the morning to watch DP because it was the first series that caught my attention and kept me interested with the story, battles, characters, everything.

now, when i watch BW, i feel sad. like the magic is gone. nothing about it interest me any more. watching now is like a chore. it would've been better to just have a new lead in the show.

What I wish, and I might be alone here, is for everyone to be aged to their correct ages. It may take the demographic past kids, but they shouldn't just ignore the people who've been watching for 10 years, you know?

[master of read]

What I wish, and I might be alone here, is for everyone to be aged to their correct ages. It may take the demographic past kids, but they shouldn't just ignore the people who've been watching for 10 years, you know?

that would've been nice. or have ash grow up and have a new person take over as series lead. take a cue from yu-gi-oh: changing stars isn't a bad thing.

[thecrimson]

that would've been nice. or have ash grow up and have a new person take over as series lead. take a cue from yu-gi-oh: changing stars isn't a bad thing.

Maybe take a slightly more serious tone, too.

I remember yugioh. Good show. It's not available on my tv for some reason. Unless it's over for now.

[master of read]

Maybe take a slightly more serious tone, too.

I remember yugioh. Good show. It's not available on my tv for some reason. Unless it's over for now.

as serious as pokemon could be. but at least have ash move on. hopefully with dawn by his side.:biggrin:


yugioh got better with GX and got hella epic with 5Ds. i know. i know.

"card games on motorcycles."

but 5Ds is the best, deepest, darkest, and most complex of the series. if you can, watch it but only the subs. the 4kids dub doesn't do it the justice it deserves.

[thecrimson]

as serious as pokemon could be. but at least have ash move on. hopefully with dawn by his side.:biggrin:


yugioh got better with GX and got hella epic with 5Ds. i know. i know.

"card games on motorcycles."

but 5Ds is the best, deepest, darkest, and most complex of the series. if you can, watch it but only the subs. the 4kids dub doesn't do it the justice it deserves.

Agreed with everything except Dawn. :biggrin:

What's wrong with the 4kids dub?

[master of read]

Agreed with everything except Dawn. :biggrin:

What's wrong with the 4kids dub?

its ok. i've gotten use to being the only pearlshipper on here. but damnit, i wont quit.


the 4kids dub adds a lot of useless dialogue and of course, no character death. 5Ds has probably the most character deaths of any of the other shows. during the dark signer war, hundreds, if not, thousands of people were dying.

[thecrimson]

its ok. i've gotten use to being the only pearlshipper on here. but damnit, i wont quit.


the 4kids dub adds a lot of useless dialogue and of course, no character death. 5Ds has probably the most character deaths of any of the other shows. during the dark signer war, hundreds, if not, thousands of people were dying.

It's not the worst thing to be, ha. You could be an advanced shipper. :tongue:

Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, did you hear of the next Yu-Gi-Oh movie coming out?

[master of read]

It's not the worst thing to be, ha. You could be an advanced shipper. :tongue:

Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, did you hear of the next Yu-Gi-Oh movie coming out?


i use to be both a poke-shipper and a advanceshipper but pearlshipping won me over. IMHO, dawn was the closest thing ash has had to a girlfriend.


the 10th anniversary movie? that's been out. and it sucks. it was only about 40-45 minutes.

[thecrimson]

i use to be both a poke-shipper and a advanceshipper but pearlshipping won me over. IMHO, dawn was the closest thing ash has had to a girlfriend.


the 10th anniversary movie? that's been out. and it sucks. it was only about 40-45 minutes.

While I don't agree with you, I also missed lots of DP, so I couldn't say if they didn't have any moments. But with Pokemon like the way it is, I doubt he will ever have a girlfriend.

It's out already? Hm, well I've lost touch with the latest news lol.

[wolvie616]

It's not the worst thing to be, ha. You could be an advanced shipper. :tongue:

Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, did you hear of the next Yu-Gi-Oh movie coming out?


i use to be both a poke-shipper and a advanceshipper but pearlshipping won me over. IMHO, dawn was the closest thing ash has had to a girlfriend.


the 10th anniversary movie? that's been out. and it sucks. it was only about 40-45 minutes.

I feel lame for still being a pokeshipper:redface:

[master of read]

While I don't agree with you, I also missed lots of DP, so I couldn't say if they didn't have any moments. But with Pokemon like the way it is, I doubt he will ever have a girlfriend.

It's out already? Hm, well I've lost touch with the latest news lol.

i've watched every ep of DP and they have a shit load of hint. in fact, lyra, a female trainer from johto, actually wanted to hook up with ash and pair dawn off on her friend, corey. she tried but she realized that ash and dawn have a deep bond with each other and she couldn't come between them. later on, she tries to actually hook them up. before a contest, she says that dawn looked pretty in her dress and the best looking in the room. she asks ash and he just says "of course she's the best." the two have a short talk and do their high five. lyra said that her mean went right over ash's head. brock said that it went over dawn's head as well. so in short, they could be romantic with each other but they just dont know it. in fact, kenny was oozing jealously at how close they are.

yeah but it would be better to watch it on youtube or something. its not worth paying for.

[thecrimson]

I feel lame for still being a pokeshipper:redface:
Don't be. I still am. :biggrin: (And hello wolvie!)

i've watched every ep of DP and they have a shit load of hint. in fact, lyra, a female trainer from johto, actually wanted to hook up with ash and pair dawn off on her friend, corey. she tried but she realized that ash and dawn have a deep bond with each other and she couldn't come between them. later on, she tries to actually hook them up. before a contest, she says that dawn looked pretty in her dress and the best looking in the room. she asks ash and he just says "of course she's the best." the two have a short talk and do their high five. lyra said that her mean went right over ash's head. brock said that it went over dawn's head as well. so in short, they could be romantic with each other but they just dont know it. in fact, kenny was oozing jealously at how close they are.

yeah but it would be better to watch it on youtube or something. its not worth paying for.
I'm going to learn Japanese, move to Japan, and kick their asses into getting some romance going on between Ash and somebody! :biggrin:

Ok, I'll check youtube. What was the movie like, though? What happened in it?

[master of read]

Don't be. I still am. :biggrin: (And hello wolvie!)

I'm going to learn Japanese, move to Japan, and kick their asses into getting some romance going on between Ash and somebody! :biggrin:

Ok, I'll check youtube. What was the movie like, though? What happened in it?

like i said, dawn is the closest to being his girlfriend. towards the end, she was pretty much dedicated to ash and his overall goals and even during one of his battles, she was practically swooning over him. and i got the vibe they were trying to do something with them, given how in all the movie posters, ash and dawn were shown together, that dominos pizza commercial and of course, HIGH TOUCH!!

basically, a time traveling duelist named paradox travels from a ruined future to steal some of the strongest cards in history. yugi, jaden, and yusei join forces to stop him. for what its worth, the movie is cannon since it is mention in the show and part of the final story line.

[thecrimson]

like i said, dawn is the closest to being his girlfriend. towards the end, she was pretty much dedicated to ash and his overall goals and even during one of his battles, she was practically swooning over him. and i got the vibe they were trying to do something with them, given how in all the movie posters, ash and dawn were shown together, that dominos pizza commercial and of course, HIGH TOUCH!!

basically, a time traveling duelist named paradox travels from a ruined future to steal some of the strongest cards in history. yugi, jaden, and yusei join forces to stop him. for what its worth, the movie is cannon since it is mention in the show and part of the final story line.

Or, maybe Ash is secretly a player? :tongue: (Misty, May, and Dawn?)

Well, I'm off to bed. Night.

[master of read]

Or, maybe Ash is secretly a player? :tongue: (Misty, May, and Dawn?)

Well, I'm off to bed. Night.

cool. and for your amusement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJsn4nmbA4

read the lyrics. lol

[Dark Soul # 7]

Don't be. I still am. :biggrin: (And hello wolvie!)Same here. *waves his Ash/Misty flag through the air*

But then again I more or less stopped watching Pokemon after the Johto region.

[Black Heaven]

It's not the worst thing to be, ha. You could be an advanced shipper. :tongue:

Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, did you hear of the next Yu-Gi-Oh movie coming out?

Hey i got news for you guys Haruka/May was the best of the four girls (Kasumi/Misty, Haruka/May, Hikari/Dawn and Iris), though everybody has the opinions thats yours and this is mine.

I do think they made Hikari/Dawn more attached to him but Hikari is more emotional then the other girls overall. Haruka is a better trainer/Coordinator though plus she has bigger breasts then the other three do, lol.

[OverMaster]

Hey i got news for you guys Haruka/May was the best of the four girls (Kasumi/Misty, Haruka/May, Hikari/Dawn and Iris), though everybody has the opinions thats yours and this is mine.

I do think they made Hikari/Dawn more attached to him but Hikari is more emotional then the other girls overall. Haruka is a better trainer/Coordinator though plus she has bigger breasts then the other three do, lol.

Haruka/May is my favorite of the girls too, although I haven't seen that much of DP, and nothing of B&W. She deserved better than Drew.

But Manga Misty comes close.

[wolvie616]

Don't be. I still am. :biggrin: (And hello wolvie!)

I'm going to learn Japanese, move to Japan, and kick their asses into getting some romance going on between Ash and somebody! :biggrin:

Ok, I'll check youtube. What was the movie like, though? What happened in it?


Same here. *waves his Ash/Misty flag through the air*

But then again I more or less stopped watching Pokemon after the Johto region.

I keep track the smart way: Watch the gym battles and rival battles and league matches.:tongue:

I think Iris might be my new favorite. I have an admitted bias against dawn, but it's her pokemon that annoy me, not her

[thecrimson]

cool. and for your amusement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJsn4nmbA4

read the lyrics. lol

Very nice.

If Ash is like any guy he's probably had feelings for Misty, May, and Dawn over his adventures. How could he not? He's a guy. :wink:

[thecrimson]

I keep track the smart way: Watch the gym battles and rival battles and league matches.:tongue:

I think Iris might be my new favorite. I have an admitted bias against dawn, but it's her pokemon that annoy me, not her

What do you mean?

Iris is ok, I guess. You don't find it annoying how she says Ash is a kid? I mean he is 10, but all his adventures?

[Black Heaven]

What do you mean?

Iris is ok, I guess. You don't find it annoying how she says Ash is a kid? I mean he is 10, but all his adventures?

Yeah i have to agree it is annoying especially when she couldn't imagine his adventures in her wildest dreams, lol. Shes really nothing compared to Ash atleast Post B&W and i just don't like her character design overall i don't mind her being of different race or whatever thats kool but shes just to plain and all around unlikeable in other words shes just not as appealing as the previous girls.

[master of read]

Very nice.

If Ash is like any guy he's probably had feelings for Misty, May, and Dawn over his adventures. How could he not? He's a guy. :wink:

fun fact: the people singing it are ash and dawn's Japanese VAs. so basically, its a duet. :biggrin:

[thecrimson]

fun fact: the people singing it are ash and dawn's Japanese VAs. so basically, its a duet. :biggrin:

That reminds me of the song Misty sang.

[master of read]

That reminds me of the song Misty sang.

i barely remember that song.

[thecrimson]

i barely remember that song.

She was singing about Ash.

[master of read]

She was singing about Ash.

oooooooh you mean that dub song. god, i hated that song.

[thecrimson]

oooooooh you mean that dub song. god, i hated that song.

It's a distant memory for me. Remind me, what do you mean?

[master of read]

It's a distant memory for me. Remind me, what do you mean?

that song misty kinda sang at the end of the johto arc.

[thecrimson]

that song misty kinda sang at the end of the johto arc.

I meant why do you hate the song.

[master of read]

I meant why do you hate the song.

it was just sappy and sweet and..........ugh! i cant stand that song. its not even in the original. its just something 4kids threw in. as much good that 4kids did, they have done a lot more evil. that's why they lost the license to both pokemon and now, yugioh.

[thecrimson]

it was just sappy and sweet and..........ugh! i cant stand that song. its not even in the original. its just something 4kids threw in. as much good that 4kids did, they have done a lot more evil. that's why they lost the license to both pokemon and now, yugioh.

Nothing wrong with sappy and sweet, lol. *cough, Dawn and Ash cough*

What's the original song?

[master of read]

Nothing wrong with sappy and sweet, lol. *cough, Dawn and Ash cough*

What's the original song?

high touch isn't very sappy. its just them saying "hey thanks for being there for me."

misty's song is just..........................sappy.

i dont even think there was a original song. it sounded like something 4kids came up. i could be wrong but it does sound like a 4kids original. they did a lot of songs like this.

[thecrimson]

high touch isn't very sappy. its just them saying "hey thanks for being there for me."

misty's song is just..........................sappy.

i dont even think there was a original song. it sounded like something 4kids came up. i could be wrong but it does sound like a 4kids original. they did a lot of songs like this.

As a Pokeshipper, I enjoyed it. :tongue:

Maybe you could look into it?

Oh, and I contacted Pokemon and was given an address to ask about Ash still being young and stuff.

[master of read]

As a Pokeshipper, I enjoyed it. :tongue:

Maybe you could look into it?

Oh, and I contacted Pokemon and was given an address to ask about Ash still being young and stuff.

i was a pokeshipper as well. but i couldnt stand that damn song. it just sounded so fake and shoved in.

oh and i looked it up. there was no song in the original scene. just misty remembering her journey with ash, which i liked. just to goes to show you, 4kids is cancer to anime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz7hfb-w59U

[thecrimson]

i was a pokeshipper as well. but i couldnt stand that damn song. it just sounded so fake and shoved in.

oh and i looked it up. there was no song in the original scene. just misty remembering her journey with ash, which i liked. just to goes to show you, 4kids is cancer to anime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz7hfb-w59U

So no song in original version? Was she at least narrating?

[master of read]

So no song in original version? Was she at least narrating?

its in the vid. they even have her slapping ash in the first ep. a scene 4kids cut out.

[thecrimson]

its in the vid. they even have her slapping ash in the first ep. a scene 4kids cut out.

Are the reruns that air on Boomerang the 4kids version?

[master of read]

Are the reruns that air on Boomerang the 4kids version?

its the only version up to that point. they didn't lose the license until the start of the battle frontier arc.

[thecrimson]

its the only version up to that point. they didn't lose the license until the start of the battle frontier arc.

We must demand Pokemon Kai! :biggrin:

[master of read]

We must demand Pokemon Kai! :biggrin:

and yugioh kai!

damn donuts. IT WAS A FUCKIN' RICEBALL!

i'm happy they are going out of business, the ignorant bastards.

[thecrimson]

and yugioh kai!

damn donuts. IT WAS A FUCKIN' RICEBALL!

i'm happy they are going out of business, the ignorant bastards.

I see you get my reference. :smile:
Donuts? Explain yourself! lol

[master of read]

I see you get my reference. :smile:
Donuts? Explain yourself! lol

it was a early ep of pokemon. brock was making rice balls but 4kids called it a donut.

[thecrimson]

it was a early ep of pokemon. brock was making rice balls but 4kids called it a donut.

I gotta see this. Could you see what episode it is? I want to see 4Kids' epic fail. :biggrin:

[master of read]

I gotta see this. Could you see what episode it is? I want to see 4Kids' epic fail. :biggrin:

its the one with the mankey/primape. dont know the exact number.

[thecrimson]

its the one with the mankey/primape. dont know the exact number.

The one where it steals Ash's hat?

[master of read]

The one where it steals Ash's hat?

that's the one. fun fact: mankey wouldn't be the last monkey pokemon to steal ash's had. apalm (sp) would steal ash's hat a lot.

[thecrimson]

that's the one. fun fact: mankey wouldn't be the last monkey pokemon to steal ash's had. apalm (sp) would steal ash's hat a lot.

Master of Read: King of Fun Facts. :tongue:

My sister is actuallt watching the old Pokemon episodes. She's on Ep 255.

[Hazard]

it was a early ep of pokemon. brock was making rice balls but 4kids called it a donut.

Heh, donuts.

Oh you silly 4kids trying to Americanize stuff.

[master of read]

Master of Read: King of Fun Facts. :tongue:

My sister is actuallt watching the old Pokemon episodes. She's on Ep 255.

damn right. apalm was a cool pokemon. too bad she went away.

[thecrimson]

damn right. apalm was a cool pokemon. too bad she went away.

I miss all of Ash's Pokemon that have mysteriously never returned--Charizard.

[master of read]

I miss all of Ash's Pokemon that have mysteriously never returned--Charizard.

charizard came back for the battle frontier and a few of his old pokemon did battle in the sinnoh league.

apam got traded to dawn, evolved and then left to train for pokemon ping pong

[thecrimson]

charizard came back for the battle frontier and a few of his old pokemon did battle in the sinnoh league.

apam got traded to dawn, evolved and then left to train for pokemon ping pong

Really? :eek: Hm, Battle Frontier and most of the Sinnoh series were episodes I missed.

Pokemon...Ping Pong?

[master of read]

Really? :eek: Hm, Battle Frontier and most of the Sinnoh series were episodes I missed.

Pokemon...Ping Pong?


yeah. the sinnoh league was awesome.

but yeah, zoey, a friend of both dawn and ash, noticed that apalm liked performing in contests while buziel, dawn's water pokemon, liked gym battles. so she suggested they trade. it was a touchy subject for both of them but they agreed it would be better for their pokemon if they did.


and yeah, pokemon ping pong.

[thecrimson]

yeah. the sinnoh league was awesome.

but yeah, zoey, a friend of both dawn and ash, noticed that apalm liked performing in contests while buziel, dawn's water pokemon, liked gym battles. so she suggested they trade. it was a touchy subject for both of them but they agreed it would be better for their pokemon if they did.


and yeah, pokemon ping pong.

Pokemon Ping Pong...hmmmm.

Pokemon isn't like most anime, is it?

[master of read]

Pokemon Ping Pong...hmmmm.

Pokemon isn't like most anime, is it?

yep. DP did a lot of things out of the normal for pokemon, including having some of the best rivals for ash, as well as multi-ep story arcs. the build up for ash vs. paul, 6 on 6 was excellent, especially with their history with chimchar.

[thecrimson]

yep. DP did a lot of things out of the normal for pokemon, including having some of the best rivals for ash, as well as multi-ep story arcs. the build up for ash vs. paul, 6 on 6 was excellent, especially with their history with chimchar.

Who would be your favorite rival?

[master of read]

Who would be your favorite rival?

paul by far. he was kinda a dark reflection of ash. while ash cared and coddled his pokemon, paul was like a drill Sargent with his. hard core training and his high standards. he would catch pokemon and if they didnt have any good moves, he'd let them go. or if they didnt meet with his expectations, he'd get rid of them or give them away. but he was respectful to strong trainers and had guts. he challenge the two strongest trainers in the world to six on six matches.

the first being cynthia, the world champ who was even above the elite 4.

the second was brandon, the pyramid king of the kanto battle frontier, who stomped ash like he was nothing.

[thecrimson]

paul by far. he was kinda a dark reflection of ash. while ash cared and coddled his pokemon, paul was like a drill Sargent with his. hard core training and his high standards. he would catch pokemon and if they didnt have any good moves, he'd let them go. or if they didnt meet with his expectations, he'd get rid of them or give them away. but he was respectful to strong trainers and had guts. he challenge the two strongest trainers in the world to six on six matches.

the first being cynthia, the world champ who was even above the elite 4.

the second was brandon, the pyramid king of the kanto battle frontier, who stomped ash like he was nothing.

I have to say Gary. Though that might just be nostalgia speaking. :tongue:

[master of read]

I have to say Gary. Though that might just be nostalgia speaking. :tongue:

the lynch pin of their rivalry was chimchar. it was fire pokemon that paul caught after seeing its unbelievable power against a pack of powerful pokemon. he trained the poor thing hard. so much so that even team rocket felt bad for it and went out of their way not to catch and cheered for it when it battled. during the hearthome tag tournament, where ash and paul were partnered up as a tag team, chimchar didnt live up to what paul wanted for it and just stopped giving it commands in the middle of battle. after that, paul just told it to kick rocks and that's when ash got him.

it took chimchar a while to get use to being with ash and his nicer approach to training him. soon, chimchar began using that power but made him insane with rage. eventually, after evolving to inferape, he learned to control it and paul was starting to respect both it and ash, since he was able to do what he couldn't do.

[thecrimson]

the lynch pin of their rivalry was chimchar. it was fire pokemon that paul caught after seeing its unbelievable power against a pack of powerful pokemon. he trained the poor thing hard. so much so that even team rocket felt bad for it and went out of their way not to catch and cheered for it when it battled. during the hearthome tag tournament, where ash and paul were partnered up as a tag team, chimchar didnt live up to what paul wanted for it and just stopped giving it commands in the middle of battle. after that, paul just told it to kick rocks and that's when ash got him.

it took chimchar a while to get use to being with ash and his nicer approach to training him. soon, chimchar began using that power but made him insane with rage. eventually, after evolving to inferape, he learned to control it and paul was starting to respect both it and ash, since he was able to do what he couldn't do.

Yep, Paul is pretty awesome. The new guy in BW, he's an ass.

[master of read]

Yep, Paul is pretty awesome. The new guy in BW, he's an ass.

he's gary lite. and ash buried the hatchet with gary long time ago. although, he was jealous when dawn was all up under gary.

[thecrimson]

he's gary lite. and ash buried the hatchet with gary long time ago. although, he was jealous when dawn was all up under gary.

I must not have seen the episode where Dawn met Gary.

[master of read]

I must not have seen the episode where Dawn met Gary.

yeah. she thought he was just like her grandfather, as prof. oak makes poems. and it was clear ash wasn't digging it.


but ash had some great rivals aside from paul. barry was interesting. and conway.........................he was creepy and not in the good way.

[thecrimson]

yeah. she thought he was just like her grandfather, as prof. oak makes poems. and it was clear ash wasn't digging it.


but ash had some great rivals aside from paul. barry was interesting. and conway.........................he was creepy and not in the good way.

It was hilarious how Dawn thought Prof. Oak was just a poet. :biggrin:

I can't remember Conway.

[master of read]

It was hilarious how Dawn thought Prof. Oak was just a poet. :biggrin:

I can't remember Conway.

yep. she was about a big a fangirl for oak as she was for ash.


conway was dawn's tag partner during the tag tournament. he was smart, almost out thought paul but he was creepy. he was stalking dawn, always appearing right behind her and making snide comments. she really didnt like being around him that much.

fun fact; the tag tournament was the second time brock met a woman who liked him back.

[thecrimson]

yep. she was about a big a fangirl for oak as she was for ash.


conway was dawn's tag partner during the tag tournament. he was smart, almost out thought paul but he was creepy. he was stalking dawn, always appearing right behind her and making snide comments. she really didnt like being around him that much.

fun fact; the tag tournament was the second time brock met a woman who liked him back.

He's only been liked back twice? I was sure that there was a few others. Hmm, you're probably right though. Brock is a cool character, wish he was in BW. I hope all the past characters appear at least a few times. Imagine all the girls showing up. :wink:

[master of read]

He's only been liked back twice? I was sure that there was a few others. Hmm, you're probably right though. Brock is a cool character, wish he was in BW. I hope all the past characters appear at least a few times. Imagine all the girls showing up. :wink:

the first time was lucy, the pike queen of the battle frontier but she couldnt get the words out. later on, turns out she had a house full of pokemon with the same eyes as brock.

the second was brock's tag partner. after losing to ash and paul in the semis, she left because she wanted be the perfect partner for him.


that would be interesting. loved to see how they would react to the high fives.

[thecrimson]

the first time was lucy, the pike queen of the battle frontier but she couldnt get the words out. later on, turns out she had a house full of pokemon with the same eyes as brock.

the second was brock's tag partner. after losing to ash and paul in the semis, she left because she wanted be the perfect partner for him.


that would be interesting. loved to see how they would react to the high fives.

Wasn't there a few times back in Johto? A girl who likd Brock, but he wasn't sure how to react, but then she leaves him for James.

Someone should suggest it to them.

[master of read]

Wasn't there a few times back in Johto? A girl who likd Brock, but he wasn't sure how to react, but then she leaves him for James.

Someone should suggest it to them.


but brock really wasn't feeling her. he didnt pour on the charm like he did with others. there was a girl in sinnoh who liked him but he only saw her as a friend and student.

and croagunk was there to keep him in line.

[thecrimson]

but brock really wasn't feeling her. he didnt pour on the charm like he did with others. there was a girl in sinnoh who liked him but he only saw her as a friend and student.

and croagunk was there to keep him in line.

*sigh* Croagunk is no replacement for Misty. He was funny, I have to admit.

[master of read]

*sigh* Croagunk is no replacement for Misty. He was funny, I have to admit.

hey, he was jabbing him in the ass. and only one person could stop him.

[thecrimson]

hey, he was jabbing him in the ass. and only one person could stop him.

Lol, a jab in the ass is pretty hilarious. He usually returns after awhile, right? (Brock that is) If he does, who will pull on his ears? Iris?

[master of read]

Lol, a jab in the ass is pretty hilarious. He usually returns after awhile, right? (Brock that is) If he does, who will pull on his ears? Iris?

doubtful. cilan is filling in his role as cook.

another fun DP fact: it was the first and only season where all four members of the elite four battled. ash battled 3. dawn battled one.

[thecrimson]

doubtful. cilan is filling in his role as cook.

another fun DP fact: it was the first and only season where all four members of the elite four battled. ash battled 3. dawn battled one.

Which reminds me. People say that Ash has never won a league, but didn't he win the Orange Leagues?

[master of read]

Which reminds me. People say that Ash has never won a league, but didn't he win the Orange Leagues?

the orange island league was sort of a stand alone league, like the battle frontier. but there weren't tournaments like the other leagues but just challenges for single trainers.

the battle frontier is no joke. brandon is a beast of a trainer. one of the two strongest in the world.

[thecrimson]

the orange island league was sort of a stand alone league, like the battle frontier. but there weren't tournaments like the other leagues but just challenges for single trainers.

the battle frontier is no joke. brandon is a beast of a trainer. one of the two strongest in the world.

I only got to catch a few episodes of Battle Frontier. That's about the time my cable went out.

Remember the Official Pokemon Pokedex Handbook? With the first Generation? Was there ever any others?

[master of read]

I only got to catch a few episodes of Battle Frontier. That's about the time my cable went out.

Remember the Official Pokemon Pokedex Handbook? With the first Generation? Was there ever any others?


the battle frontier was intense cause all of the frontier brains battle in different ways. but brandon was the beast of them all. he rode around in a flying pyramid. no joke. not to mention he had the three legendary golems as his team. interesting enough, paul's brother actually did the battle frontier but brandon beat his ass so bad that he retired as a trainer.


naw. dont keep up with the hand books.

[thecrimson]

the battle frontier was intense cause all of the frontier brains battle in different ways. but brandon was the beast of them all. he rode around in a flying pyramid. no joke. not to mention he had the three legendary golems as his team. interesting enough, paul's brother actually did the battle frontier but brandon beat his ass so bad that he retired as a trainer.


naw. dont keep up with the hand books.

I remember catching the part with Brandon and Paul's brother. Must be uber epic if Paul's bro quit as a trainer.

[OverMaster]

Which reminds me. People say that Ash has never won a league, but didn't he win the Orange Leagues?

I think so, but that was only filler, wasn't it? And IIRC it's never mentioned after the fact.

[master of read]

I remember catching the part with Brandon and Paul's brother. Must be uber epic if Paul's bro quit as a trainer.

according to paul, he beat him without changing pokemon. and paul was deeply affected by it enough to challenge the pyramid king.