Streets of Gotham: Hippolyte cameo with the JSA!

[ClaudioPozas]

This week's Streets of Gotham #20 (part 5 of Heart of Hush) has a flashback the JSA dropping by Gotham to stop a blocks-wide arson. Roll-call include Green Lantern, Flash, John Zatara (shown to be a friend of Thomas Wayne and Martha Kane -- soon to be Wayne), Doctor Fate and, most surprisingly, Queen Hyppolita. She's shown not in the WW2 Wonder Woman garb designed by Byrne, but in a classic gown that wouldn't be out of place in Themyscira itself! She did sport a golden girdle with a stylized eagle.

[JKCarrier]

Did they refer to her as "Wonder Woman", or just Hippolyte? That would be an interesting compromise...letting her still have a WWII career, without infringing on Diana's status as the original Wonder Woman.

[ClaudioPozas]

The only JSAer with lines was Zatara, as he's already appeared in this arc.

The narration goes:

[Suddenly, the skies above Gotham were filled with heroes.]
[It was the first time the city had seen such a gathering of power.]
(full page spread showing the JSA swooping down)

[Beings with godlike abilities saving the most wretched.]
(GL scooping up debris with a green contruct)

[With no concerns for their own safety, they charged into the conflagration, determined that no lives should be lost.]
(Hyppolita ripping out a door from a burning building)

[Working ceaselessly until everyone was safe.]
(Flash rescuing a homeless girl)

[Miracles were accomplished that night.]
(Zatara guiding water towards the flames)

I must say, Hyppolita in her dress looked quite well next to Jay Garrick in his Hermes-inspired helmet, and Hawkman, who looks like Icarus anyway. Gives the JSA a Classic Myth vibe.

[Stu]

So how far into the 20th century did her career post-JSA go? Because this would have to be a few years before Bruce was born, putting it in the 70s, most likely.

[glennsim]

So how far into the 20th century did her career post-JSA go? Because this would have to be a few years before Bruce was born, putting it in the 70s, most likely.

All of this "Thomas and Martha Wayne knew John Zatara" stuff appears to have been working onder the assumption (which is somewhat the same thing that DC Legacies appears to work under) that the 1940's heroes are just one generation before the current Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman one, despite how that doesn't work with real-world years.

[hypotherion]

All of this "Thomas and Martha Wayne knew John Zatara" stuff appears to have been working onder the assumption (which is somewhat the same thing that DC Legacies appears to work under) that the 1940's heroes are just one generation before the current Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman one, despite how that doesn't work with real-world years.

Trying to map real-world years to the DCU just results in a headache. It's a sliding timeline.

Anyways here's the pages where she appears:

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z351/hypotherion/Batman-StreetsofGotham20017.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z351/hypotherion/Batman-StreetsofGotham20018.jpg

[Ben D]

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z351/hypotherion/Batman-StreetsofGotham20017.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z351/hypotherion/Batman-StreetsofGotham20018.jpg

That's some beautiful artwork.

[BnL]

Did they refer to her as "Wonder Woman", or just Hippolyte? That would be an interesting compromise...letting her still have a WWII career, without infringing on Diana's status as the original Wonder Woman.

Judging by those scans kindly posted by hypotherion, it looks like this is the route DC is taking. It's the perfect compromise, I think.

[ClaudioPozas]

So how far into the 20th century did her career post-JSA go? Because this would have to be a few years before Bruce was born, putting it in the 70s, most likely.
The sliding timeline of the DCU keeps widening the gap between the JSA and the modern age. As it is, this comic has Thomas and Martha just starting to fall for each other (she's still Martha Kane). If they are young here, and Bruce was a late child born in, say, 1972, this story could take place in the 50s. We know that the JSA disbanded after the Comitee of Unamerican Activities hearing, so it's safe to assume Hyppolita left Patriarch's World then (possibly disgusted at how people in PW could turn so readily on those who fought for them).

[BnL]

The sliding timeline of the DCU keeps widening the gap between the JSA and the modern age. As it is, this comic has Thomas and Martha just starting to fall for each other (she's still Martha Kane). If they are young here, and Bruce was a late child born in, say, 1972, this story could take place in the 50s. We know that the JSA disbanded after the Comitee of Unamerican Activities hearing, so it's safe to assume Hyppolita left Patriarch's World then (possibly disgusted at how people in PW could turn so readily on those who fought for them).

This is my problem with DC tying so many key elements of it's history to World War II. As more and more time passes, it only becomes more problematic.

[ArnoldoAAD]

im makes absolute perfect sense to have Hypolyta on the JSA and WWII time

think of the timeline and the motive
first hypolyta lives in the paradise island for hundreds of years without ever caring of the rest of the world
then WWII happens, somehow it reaches themisira, she leaves, meets the JSA, Dark Angel, the original Diana Prince(whose name is used to name diana)
then WWII ends she returns and because of all the experiences she lived she is motivated to give birth to Diana

she doesnt need to be WW then and i think gives the characters more history, importance and relevance
and beats the idea of hypolyta just suddenly after hundreds of years felt the need to have a baby

[Frank Fournier]

If DC Comics is looking for a compromise then this is it and I like a lot Hippolyta's costume for it as long as they don't call her Wonder Woman. :smile:

[glennsim]

The sliding timeline of the DCU keeps widening the gap between the JSA and the modern age. As it is, this comic has Thomas and Martha just starting to fall for each other (she's still Martha Kane). If they are young here, and Bruce was a late child born in, say, 1972, this story could take place in the 50s. We know that the JSA disbanded after the Comitee of Unamerican Activities hearing, so it's safe to assume Hyppolita left Patriarch's World then (possibly disgusted at how people in PW could turn so readily on those who fought for them).

Well, something has definitely changed. If we assume that Zatara is still roughly the same age and was active as a super-hero at the same time as the rest of the JSA (per All-Star Squadron, et al), and this story suggests that Thomas and Martha were roughly the same age as Zatara, then that puts T&M in their late 50's in 1972 (to use your Bruce birth year, which isn't a bad one.) Which while not impossible, is really implausible.

So one of the following must be true:

1. Zatara is actually much younger than the rest of the JSA and didn't really fight crime or interact with them till right before they retired.
2. DC is ignoring logic and just having the 1940's heroes kids be around the same age as Superman, Batman, etc.

[NotSuper]

I prefer the idea that the JSA debuted "25 years before Superman," meaning they debuted 35 years ago in all (if we assume Superman has been active for 10 years).

Besides, we've already got a JSA that debuted in WW2 on Earth-2 (it still seems to be the mid-80s on that Earth too).

[dupersuper]

Judging by those scans kindly posted by hypotherion, it looks like this is the route DC is taking. It's the perfect compromise, I think.

Ditto. I like Poly in the JSA, but dislike Diana not being the 1st chronological WW. This works.

[Cardinal!]

This seems fine to me. I wasn't all that anti-Polly as GA Wonder Woman in the first place, though. I just hope that it still remains that she served as Wonder Woman in our time, even if she discarded the costume when she traveled back in time (nothing in this appearance would seem to invalidate that much).

For the record, I think DC has been distancing the Golden Age heroes from World War II, or at least it's an issue that Didio has acknowledged in past interviews. I haven't read Legacies or paid that much attention to JSA lately, but if I understood correctly, they avoid specifically mentioning the 1940s or World War II in most recent flashbacks.

[vaffrey]

This doesn't have to be definitive. It's someone's recollection, or recounting of what happened in the past, right? So some of the details might be incorrect.

In other words, I see an easy out if there's an eventual definitive Wonder timeline that leaves out any version of Hippolyta in the past with the JSA.

[ClaudioPozas]

This doesn't have to be definitive. It's someone's recollection, or recounting of what happened in the past, right? So some of the details might be incorrect.

In other words, I see an easy out if there's an eventual definitive Wonder timeline that leaves out any version of Hippolyta in the past with the JSA.
Yes, the narrator in those caption boxes is Doctor Death.

[Gaelforce]

This is not the double post you were looking for...

[Gaelforce]

Yet in the previous issue there was a news shot of the JSA and someone clearly in a Wonder Woman costume.

The editors of DC really need to be smacked upside the head.

http://picoolio.com/photos/large/24374-g8cwj.jpg

And sorry, much as I love Hippolyta, having her be the first Amazon hero and Diana her daughter being the second still makes Diana a legacy character just as much as any other kid of the original JSAers. I think the first female hero deserves better. <shrug>

[Free-Man]

This seems fine to me. I wasn't all that anti-Polly as GA Wonder Woman in the first place, though. I just hope that it still remains that she served as Wonder Woman in our time, even if she discarded the costume when she traveled back in time (nothing in this appearance would seem to invalidate that much).

For the record, I think DC has been distancing the Golden Age heroes from World War II, or at least it's an issue that Didio has acknowledged in past interviews. I haven't read Legacies or paid that much attention to JSA lately, but if I understood correctly, they avoid specifically mentioning the 1940s or World War II in most recent flashbacks.

I agree, it's a nice compromise.

[dupersuper]

I haven't read Legacies or paid that much attention to JSA lately, but if I understood correctly, they avoid specifically mentioning the 1940s or World War II in most recent flashbacks.

You clearly haven't been reading Legacies. Good luck maing heads or tailsof that timeline.