Villains best comics?

[hc00jw]

I'm very new, so apologies if this has already been answered comprehensively elsewhere, but I could not finda good example of what I was looking for!

I've seen lots of top lists (top 5, 10, 25) of Batman comics, and I've made my way through a few collected editions that I thought would really interest me (and I could find cheap enough), but, to be honest, I'm more interested in the villains than in the bat (and I detest Robin, Batgirl even more so)! So, as a basis, here's what I've been able to discern should be in a top 5 for different villains so far;

Ra's Al Ghul; Birth of the Demon, Tales of the Demon
Hugo Strange; Strange Apparitions, Prey
Bane; Broken Bat
Joker; The man who laughs, Killing joke, (A Death in the Family?)
Two face; Long Halloween, Dark victory
Catwoman; When in Rome

From where I am sitting, I loved the original Burton Batman flicks when they were released (particularly Returns, hearsay, I know, I guessed I was a bigger fan of Burton than Batman back in the day), a bigger hater of the Schumacher flicks (although I prefer Batman & Robin to Forever, if I watch it as a sequel to the 60's Batman movie (which I also love) rather than anything Burton set up, while Forever really doesn't know what type of movie it wants to be, and just ends up some monstrous hybrid)... Obviously loved the new movies... So a comic book loving friend bought me Dark Knight Returns for christmas last year, and I fell in love with it... I keep on hearing how great x villain is though, but can never find any good examples of why!

I do love Catwoman, for example, and also Penguin (see Returns above), but I know of no good examples of a Penguin comic, and am unsure of Catwoman... I've heard When in Rome is very good, but after reading Long Halloween, which I thought was OK, but not as great as everyone made out (I think I preferred the beginning to the end), I don't know whether to buy Dark victory or not to make it through to the third part of When in Rome (I'm a stickler for this sort of stuff, it's all or nothing for me).

I also really liked Batman: Year one, Arkham asylum, thought Killing joke was pretty good (not a big fan of the Joker, I don't think), and enjoyed Knightfall part one, despite sillyness like the Mad hatters mind control hats, but loved chapters like Zsasz's and Firefly's (and obviously the finale)... I'm definitely more about Zsasz than Clayface... Lets leave the silly clay people and mind control hats to the Marvels radioactive spiders IMHO!

Any help appreciated! :D

[NathanielEssex]

Have you read the Last Arkham, the first arc in "Shadow of the Bat"? That's the best Zsasz story, imo. He nearly kills Nightwing and holds his own against Batman for a while. He displays his genius here as well. He's much more of a threat than the video game or modern writers believe him to be (except for Anderson Gabrych, who had Zsasz come close to defeating Batman in his Spoiler-Robin story). The story itself is well-crafted, and questions the sanity of Batman's very existence. Alan Grant is the man.

[Patroklos]

I'd remove Dark Victory from the good Two Face stories, and I think you'll love A Death In The Family since it's basically the 60's television show with some murdering thrown in...

Are the villains you mentioned the only ones you're looking for good stories with?

[nepenthes]

Ra's Al Ghul - Death and the Maidens (by Greg Rucka also feat Talia), Tales of the Demon, Son of the Demon (awesome art, marriage of Talia and Bruce)

Hugo Strange - Prey, Strange Apparitions, Batman & the Monster Men

Bane - Vengeance of Bane, Knightfall vol.1 Broken Bat, Vengeance of Bane II, Secret Six vol.2 Depths (has all the cool Bane moments and can actually be read with out vol.1)

Joker - Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns, Going Sane, Joker, Batman & Son-Black Glove-RIP, Gotham Central Soft Targets

Two face - Long Halloween, Faces, Gotham Central Half a Life

Catwoman - Ego & Other Tails (feat Selinas Big Score), Catwoman Year One: Her Sisters Keeper, When in Rome, Hush

Zsasz - The Last Arkham

Hush if you haven't already read it is parade of classic villains and much better than Long Halloween imo.

Four of Kind features the Year One origins of Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Riddler, Man-Bat.

The Batman: Detective tpb includes clever revamps of Riddler, Penguin and a CLASSIC joker issue.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Ivy's arc in No Man's Land, and the follow-up in Detective Comics afterwards, was really good.

Let's not forget Mad Love for Harley Quinn.

[hc00jw]

Some great suggestions all, thank you for the feedback so far! I've already ordered Her Sisters Keeper and Batman: Detective off the back of this (A death in the family, Mad love and Last Arkham were all too expensive, sadly! :( ).


Are the villains you mentioned the only ones you're looking for good stories with?

No. The one I'm probably most interested in I actually have 0 comics for (well, he seems to have one chapter in Batman: Detective, but that seems to be a short story rather than him being a focal point for that collected edition), and that's Penguin... I'm also kind of interested in Poison Ivy (loved the way she was depicted in Long Halloween) and very interested in Scarecrow! I'm also not interested in Riddler and Man-Bat, but then, I'm open to suggestions... Maybe I'm "missing a trick" with these villains and I'd actually love them given the right story, so I'll try and keep an open mind! And then there are villains that I know nothing about, that I'd also be interested in hearing about if anyone is passionate about a particular villain I've not even mentioned, or just a particular comic where that villain shines.

So, please, don't be limited by any villain's I've mentioned, or even if I seem down on a particular villain, maybe I don't know what you do about that character that will change my mind!

Cheers again!

[Nefarius]

Joker-Batman#1(and Brubaker's remake "The Man Who Laughs) and #2,Five Way of Revenge,The Laughing Fish and Dark Detective.

Penguin-Penguin's thriumphant,his appearence in No Man's Land and Gotham Underground.

Two-Face- Batman Annual 14 and DKR.

Hugo Strange-Strange Apparations,Prey and Monster Men.

[hc00jw]

OK, I've ordered Penguin's triumphant, Greatest Joker stories ever told and Monster men on top of this! There's still a few I want to read but are too expensive, but I think that's more than enough for now. Collating all the lists, I get the following as some sort of master list for villains greatest stories (sorry if I missed any above);

-----

Ra's Al Ghul - Death and the Maidens, Tales of the Demon, Son of the Demon

Hugo Strange - Prey, Strange Apparitions, Batman & the Monster Men

Bane - Vengeance of Bane I-II, Knightfall vol.1 Broken Bat, Secret Six vol.2 Depths

Joker - Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns, Going Sane, Joker, Batman & Son / Black Glove / RIP, Gotham Central Soft Targets, The Man Who Laughs, Greatest Joker stories ever told (collects Batman #1, Five Way of Revenge and The Laughing Fish), Dark Detective, The Batman: Detective

Two face - Long Halloween, Faces, Gotham Central Half a Life, Dark Knight Returns, Batman Annual #14

Catwoman - Selinas Big Score (collected in Ego & Other Tails), Catwoman: Her Sisters Keeper, When in Rome, Hush

Zsasz - The Last Arkham

Harley Quinn - Mad Love

Penguin - Penguin's triumphant, Gotham Underground, No Man's Land

Poison Ivy - No Man's Land

-----

I almost want to plead with people not to reply to this thread anymore, as I'm not sure I can afford any more right now... However, the only scarecrow mentioned was his year one story in Four of a kind, which doesn't seem like it will really give me the Scarecrow fix I was looking for, as it is both short on Scarecrow and has gotten mixed reviews anyway (indeed, from what the reviews say, I am a little apprehensive about Four of a kind... I don't know if this is justified). So, is there better Scarecrow, or is Four of a kind as good as it gets? Are there any serious and/or good representations of Man-bat, Mr. Freeze or Killer croc (I did read somewhere the most realistic representation of Croc was in Joker?!). And, now I think of it, where was The ventriloquist in Long Halloween, surely he would have been a perfect fit there?! And the Penguin?! (Although I noticed he was with the mob of villains at the end, was he planned to be in a previous chapter but cut, as the rest of the villains all had their stories in previous chapters except Penguin?!). But, Ventriloquist: Has he ever been more than a b-list villain? After Knightfall, I've had my interest perked in if he has been in a proper gangster style story (tommy guns and all), or had his own classic story arc. So;

Scarecrow - Four of a kind(?)

Man-bat - ?

Mr. Freeze - ?

Killer croc - Arkham Asylum(?)

Ventriloquist - ?

Feel like I've got the perfect foundation now... Just these one or two last little niggles that I would be very grateful if anyone shared their expertise on! Thanks again for all the answers so far again, feel like getting into some of these classic stories is hard, as there is just such a huge abundance of material out there, it's hard to know where to start!

Thank you very much again.

m(_ _)m

[Patroklos]

Ventriloquist and Killer Croc both have great representations of themselves in Broken City.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I should mention that the Ivy story in No Man's Land takes place in one of the later volumes. I think it's volume 4. Though I think the whole saga is worth reading.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Killer Croc- Batman #521 & 522 (in fact, in a sane world, this'd be the final Killer Croc tale)

[Ned McDodd]

Let's not forget Mad Love for Harley Quinn.

love that story a lot too. Also the Harley & Quinn mini series from Dini and Timm. Just a fun book, just great. I miss this kind of stories in the current line up.

[nepenthes]

Poison Ivy - No Mans Land VOLUME THREE, The Collected Legends of the Dark Knight (feat Hothouse w/ Ivy and Blades w/ the Cavalier), Whatver Happened to the Caped Crusader (origins for Ivy and Riddler), Contagion tpb feat issue Fruit of the Earth, Black Orchid tpb by Neil Gaiman

Man-bat - Four of a Kind, Batman & Son, Batman in the 70's

Mr. Freeze - Gotham Central vol.1, Mr Freeze one-shot, City of Crime

Killer Croc - Joker, Broken City, Hush, Knightfall

Ventriloquist - Broken City, City of Crime

Most of these guys best stories have been left uncollected, there's no major ones feat Venquilotrist, Penguin or Croc I can think of. And hunting down single issues is a whole other thing.

[Patroklos]

Killer Croc- Batman #521 & 522 (in fact, in a sane world, this'd be the final Killer Croc tale)

SPOILERS for the story below!
(Where are the spoiler-tags?)



Is that the story with Swamp Thing "calling" Croc to live free as an animal in the swamps of Louisiana? If so, I completely agree with you, and how the hell did DC bring him back to Gotham?

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

SPOILERS for the story below!
(Where are the spoiler-tags?)


Is that the story with Swamp Thing "calling" Croc to live free as an animal in the swamps of Louisiana? If so, I completely agree with you, and how the hell did DC bring him back to Gotham?

Yes, that's the one. And he came back to Gotham in this silent short from the old 90's Batman Chronicles anthology.

And spoiler tags go like so: [ spoil ] [ /spoil ], sans the spaces.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Some others:

Joker- LOTDK #65-68 ("Going Sane"), Detective Comics #826 ("Slayride")
Harley Quinn- Mad Love, Batman: Harley & Ivy, the Black & White Ivy short, Birds Of Prey: Dead Of Winter
Poison Ivy- Gaiman & Buckingham's "Pavane," the John Francis Moore/Brian Apthorp one-off, the abovementioned Harley material, NML's "Fruit Of The Earth," Detective #751 & 752 ("A Walk In The Park")
Two-Face- LOTDK #28-30 ("Faces"), Detective #777-782 ("Dead Reckoning')
Scarecrow- "Study Hall," from Batman Adventures Annual #1

[hc00jw]

OK, so, here's my consolidated list;

Ra's Al Ghul - Death and the Maidens, Tales of the Demon, Son of the Demon

Hugo Strange - Prey, Strange Apparitions, Batman & the Monster Men

Bane - Vengeance of Bane I-II, Knightfall vol.1 Broken Bat, Secret Six vol.2 Depths

Joker - Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns vol. 3, Going Sane (LOTDK #65-68), Joker, Batman & Son / Black Glove / RIP, Gotham Central Soft Targets, The Man Who Laughs, Greatest Joker stories ever told (collects Batman #1, Five Way of Revenge and The Laughing Fish), Dark Detective, The Batman: Detective, Slayride (DC #826)

Two face - Long Halloween, Faces (LOTDK #28-30), Gotham Central Half a Life, Dark Knight Returns vol/ 1, Batman Annual #14, Dead Reckoning (Detective #777-782)

Catwoman - Selinas Big Score (collected in Ego & Other Tails), Catwoman: Her Sisters Keeper, When in Rome, Hush

Zsasz - The Last Arkham

Harley Quinn - Mad Love, Batman B&W; The Bet, Harley & Ivy, Birds Of Prey: Dead Of Winter

Penguin - Penguin's triumphant, Gotham Underground, No Man's Land

Poison Ivy - Poison Ivy, No Man's Land vol. 3, Year one (collected in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader), Contagion, Black Orchid, Collected Legends of the Dark Knight, Harley & Ivy, Batman B&W; The Bet, A Walk In The Park (#751-752)

Scarecrow - Four of a kind, Study Hall (collected in Batman Adventures Annual #1)

Man-bat - Four of a Kind, Batman & Son, Batman in the 70's

Mr. Freeze - Gotham Central vol.1, Mr Freeze, City of Crime

Killer croc - Arkham Asylum, Broken City, Batman #521 & 522, Joker, Hush

Ventriloquist - Broken City, City of Crime

Riddler - Year one (collected in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader)


Since opening this thread, I have read;

Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper (excellent, loved this, ordered Selinas Big Score straight after), Penguin Triumphant (far too short, I just wanted more, but good what was there, although the "wauk's" reminded me of the 60's show), Joker (excellent, loved the more realistic take on everything, and how every villain is represented, I have new found respect for Croc).

I have still on their way;

Monster Men, Greatest Joker stories, Dark Victory, Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader, and Last Arkham (most I've spent on a comic book yet, but considering it was the only Zasz recommend, and I've quite liked the Arkham material so far, I thought, what the heck!)

So, few lingering questions, if anyone is still generous to answer them;

Both Four of Kind and Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader have Riddler and Ivy origin stories, are these the same, different takes on the same story, or different stories altogether?

People have mentioned Knightfall as a good Croc arc, but I didn't get that from part one... Are the good Croc bits in part 2 onward?

A bit of a different theme, I do enjoy the Arkham related material also, although looking at the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkham_Asylum) it seems I already have a lot of that material also... I know Black Orchid has been mentioned as a good Ivy story, but what about Living Hell and Arkham Reborn? Should I also buy these if I enjoy Arkham stories?

Again, TYVM! :D

[Patroklos]

Living Hell is great as long as you can stand a few over the top moments in the latter part of it. It introduces a lot of excellent new villains as well.

If I remember correctly, Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader has a lot of origin stories in it, all revamped especially for the story setting (it will make sense when you read it) and not used or referred to since then. It's good and I recommend you to read it, but I wouldn't call it essential.

[jgiannantoni05]

Croc: his uncollected like 7 issue first appearance arc by Conway, ends with Detective #526...his best story IMHO

[NathanielEssex]

Croc: The Barcelona one-shot that came out recently (Mark Waid) was a good one. THe story from the early 90's, where Croc tries to reform by becoming the protector of a group of runaways was good, too.

Deadshot: Both of his miniseries, any Ostrander Suicide Squad story, the LOTDK story where he bitch-made Batman (and usually, it's Batman who makes Deadshot his biznatch), all of Gail Simone's Secret Six stuff predating the ongoing (honestly, I've stopped reading the ongoing, too cutesy, they should be emotionally distant, vicious killers, not "lost souls who've finally found a family").

Ra's Al Ghul: Tower of Babel. Takes down the JLA using Batman's contingency plans.

[hc00jw]

I know I've said it before, but, once again, thank you all very much for your input... I've read some amazing comics I don't think I would have ever found without your expertise! So, genuinely, TYVM! m(_ _)m

I do have one or two questions more, but just a quick recap of where I am at the moment in case this helps...

Comics I had before I posted here;

Dark Knight Returns
Arkham Asylum
Batman: Year One
Long Halloween
Batman: Knightfall part 1
The Killing Joke
The Man Who Laughs

Comics that I have got and read since posting here;

Dark Victory (so "When in Rome" makes more sense)
Her Sister's Keeper
Penguin Triumphant
Joker
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader

Comics I'm still waiting to arrive;

Monster Men
The Greatest Joker Stories
Ego and Other Tails
Last Arkham

Comics I would have bought if they were cheaper;

A Death in the Family
Mad Love
Strange Apparitions
Prey
The Batman: Detective
Gotham Underground

Comics I will read in the future;

When in Rome
Hush
Black Orchid
Arkham Reborn

Now, where I'm at right now; I read Long Halloween again, and while I didn't like the ending, I did actually love the journey, and I think that's why I was left with a bad taste in my mouth after finishing it... I read Dark Victory afterwards, and while there were some good moments, and it sort of, "closed" the year one(?!) era for me, and set up when in Rome a little, ultimately it just reaffirmed my hatred of Robin, and I have absolutely zero interest in reading anything "after" that comic... I am interesting in more material from before then though... Obviously I've already read, and loved, Year One, Her Sisters Keeper, Long Halloween and I have Monster Men on it's way...

So, question number one, is there any more good year one comics out there?

Quick question two; is Scarecrow Tales any good? Not been mentioned here, but I've run into it while doing my own research, and it seems to have got recommendations elsewhere!?

I've also enjoyed Arkham Asylum as a subject matter, and madness within Batman comics in general... Obviously starting with Arkham Asylum, and now ordering The Last Arkham... The short appearances of the Asylum in The Man Who Laughs, Broken Bat and DRK were also good... Really liked the Alfred story in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader in this regard also(!). I'm looking to get Black Orchid (also for Ivy inclusion) and Arkham Reborn for more of a fix in this area...

So, question three, are there any other stories covering the madness / Arkham side of the Batman story that I have to read?

Last question then... I was surprised to read the Riddler origin in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader... And him reference King Tut... And the fact that he never wanted to kill people, etc. So, part one of this question; Is that how the Riddler really is in the comics?! I know it was mentioned that these origin stories haven't been referred to since then, but, even in Long Halloween, the Riddler didn't seem that... "dangerous"? Is this how he is in the comics, just an eccentric criminal with a compulsion to always leave a clue that will lead back to him? I was never really interested in him before, but I think his lack of... That harder edge... That most other of Batman's rogue gallery seem to have... Actually makes me even more intrigued... As in; How does he actually get *BY* amongst all these other cut throat criminals?!?!

Part two of the question is regarding King Tut (along with 3 other villains who escape me right now... Egg man, or some such?!) that the Riddler mentioned... I remember him from when I watched the Batman TV show on a Sunday morning as a child... I was *so* surprised to see him referenced in the comic... I thought he was entirely confined to the campy 60's TV show with Adam West... So; Was this just a homage to the Adam West Batman TV show in the 60's? Or have these villains appeared in any comics? I was under the impression that when the TV show came out, it was a far cry from what was happening in the comics at the time, and even after it was a success, never influenced them... Is this correct? Or were elements of the TV show incorporated back into the comics? If they were, what is a prime example of the most over the top / campy / ludicrous Batman comic from this era (bat shark repellant and all?!) and have King Tut, Egg man and company ever been in a "serious" batman comic?!?

I know I'm asking a lot, especially as a new casual comic fan... Any and all help greatly received... Thanks again! :D

[Jody Garland]

The King Tut line was a throw away gag, but he has since appeared in an arc of Batman Confidential that was pretty well received.

The Riddler isn't really all that bloodthirsty. He is just a criminal with severe OCD. No idea how he survives along with the crazier rogues, but one might as well ask how Catwoman or the Penguin survived when they ran with the Joker, Two-Face or the Scarecrow.

[Patroklos]

Last question then... I was surprised to read the Riddler origin in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader... And him reference King Tut... And the fact that he never wanted to kill people, etc. So, part one of this question; Is that how the Riddler really is in the comics?! I know it was mentioned that these origin stories haven't been referred to since then, but, even in Long Halloween, the Riddler didn't seem that... "dangerous"? Is this how he is in the comics, just an eccentric criminal with a compulsion to always leave a clue that will lead back to him? I was never really interested in him before, but I think his lack of... That harder edge... That most other of Batman's rogue gallery seem to have... Actually makes me even more intrigued... As in; How does he actually get *BY* amongst all these other cut throat criminals?!?!


Because he's awesome, and extremely smart. However, he has generally been written as more of a joke the last years (by most writers, not all), but makes sort of a "comeback" in one of the stories you haven't read yet :). After that, he got a very interesting reboot by writer Paul Dini in Detective Comics, which I personally loved.

[hc00jw]

Just as a bit of a closer, and to see if anyone has anything further to add... Don't think I am buying any more, but maybe if something really grabs my attention...

The TLDR version; I want more Catwoman! Love this character! Have ordered every Catwoman comic recommended so far, and loved all I have read! I want more Penguin and Sacrecrow, but I'm not sure what I want actually exists! I want more Bane but it's too expensive to collect, so I will leave this :( . I have had my curiosity piqued by the Riddler, but I'm not entirely sure how to progress... I really enjoyed the look inside Batman's mind in Ego and Whatever Happened (and also loved Arkham Asylum), which were really nice surprises, don't know if there is anything else in this area (getting inside Batman's head)? Also, does anyone have the most ridiculous example of camp Batman comic ever? I have a morbid curiosity about this...

Having said that, here is an in depth breakdown of what I think of the villains I have encountered so far, and a little bit in general at the end;

Ra's Al Ghul - Haven't read any of his comics yet, he always seems to work alone rather than be included in any collection of rogues gallery? I've ordered Tales of the Demon to rectify this (although I'm worried about it's 1970's-ness, the others were far too expensive).

Hugo Strange - Again, not run into him yet... Monster Men should have arrived a day or two ago, so hopefully today, and have just got a good price on Strange Apparitions on eBay!

Bane - Really enjoyed Knightfall part one, (apart from the Hatter's appearance). Want to get Vengeance of Bane, but it's uncollected. Tempted by Knightfall part two, but considering there is a huge section of this arc missing, I don't think I will bother... So think I am "done" with Bane, which seems a bit of a shame.

Joker - The Man Who Laughs did exactly what I expected it to... It wasn't bad, but it didn't blow me away! I didn't really "get" the joke in The Killing Joke, again, it was good, not amazing. I found it quite a chore to read through The Greatest Joker stories... I could appreciate the huge leap Batman #1 made from previous comics, what they were trying to do with the Red Hood story, and how Joker's Five Way Revenge was another huge leap... I just didn't *enjoy* those stories though, I could only appreciate that without them I wouldn't have had some of the stories that I love today! I don't know whether the part of that is that I like my stories to have a beginning, middle, and end though, and the collection seems to just be an endless torrents of scrapes with the Joker (which is kind of the impression I get with comics in general? Maybe I'm better sticking to collected editions for whole arcs and one shots :/). Having said that, "Joker" was excellent, and chapter 3 of Dark Knight Returns is probably my favourite chapter of my favourite collected edition!

Two Face - I loved the Long Halloween, although I see this as more of a gangster / Harvey Dent story rather than a Two Face one... I thought chapter one of Dark Knight Returns was by far the weakest, and thought Dark Victory was just adding needless padding to the end of Long Halloween... I've not read any other Two Face, but I don't really have any inclination to either.

Catwoman - Her Sister's Keeper was incredible, and Ego and Other Tales was just as good but in different ways... *So* glad I got this and cannot wait for When in Rome to arrive! I am trying to track down a cheap copy of Death in the Family just so I can read Hush after (I believe this is the correct way to play this?). I NEED more Catwoman, but only know of these four...

Zsasz - I loved The Last Arkham... Wish I had read this before Knightfall, but it retroactively made sense! Got a new appreciation for Zsasz, although I don't feel the need to read anymore Zsasz comics, I'm really glad I read this one!

Harley Quinn - Loved her in "Joker", but as I'm evidently not that big a fan of the Joker, think I'll leave Mad Love, etc., I'm not convinced I would really enjoy any of the Quinn stories!

Penguin - Penguin Triumphant was good, but not great, and too short... I want more from my penguin fix, but Gotham Underground and No Man's Land are too expensive right now... Plus Gotham Underground seems to have Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, etc. etc., which has really put me off buying this comic... I'll keep on eye for cheap copies of both on eBay though, as I still want that gentleman, underworld club owning, informant style of Penguin story! I did actually really like him in Returns also, but I guess his comic version is not like this...

Poison Ivy - I really enjoyed her year one story in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, despite it doing exactly what I expected it to from page one... I'm going to run into her again whenever i pick up Black Orchid... It looks like my order of Four of a Kind will fall through, but "Poison Ivy" seems really cheap, so I have also snagged that! I don't expect I'll want to take Ivy any further, but we'll see!

Scarecrow - See above, Four of a Kind will probably fall though. No one answered my question if Scarecrow Tales was any good, so I am without my Scarecrow fix at the moment, as there were no other suggestions. :(

Man-bat - Guess he's a relic of the 70's, unless Four of a Kind ever arrives and changes my mind.

Mr. Freeze - Did exactly what I expected to in City of Crime (I'm about 1/3 of the way through, so taking it he doesn't pop up again in any sort of twist)... Don't feel like I need to take this villain any further!

Killer croc - *Loved* him in both Arkham Asylum and Joker, although obviously he's not the centre of attention in either... Ordered Broken City and will read Hush soon.

Ventriloquist - Disappointed with appearance so far in City of Crime (1/3 of the way through, so taking it he doesn't pop up again in any sort of twist, hopefully he plays more of a role here). Have ordered Broken City.

Riddler - Loved his year one in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, and also his brief appearance in "Joker"! The only other suggestion I have had on the Riddler is another year one in Four of a Kind, and an unspecified run in recent comics, but my interest has really been piqued regarding the Riddler...

King Tut - I'm really tempted to obtain Batman Confidential #26-28, the only uncollected works I am tempted to get hold of, just to see what they did with this character! I've also seen one or two references to Ace the Bat-Hound and a Bat-Mite... And... God knows what else... Jerry Lewis and Batman? I know there was a comic mentioned in the foreword or afterword that was supposed to be ridiculous... Just wondering if anyone knows of the best example of this kitsch batman? Bat-shark repellant / can't get rid of a bomb style! (I know Tut's first comic appearance in Confidential wasn't like this, but I thought it would be the best place to follow this lead).

General comments not directly related to Villains regarding the comics I have read - I loved "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader" from start to finish... I picked up on a lot more than I thought I would, Knightfall and Arkham Asylum references, etc., and just generally really enjoyed this, particularly the Alfred sequence! Just plain loved every page of this collected edition... Which was also the case with Ego and other tails... Yes, Selina's big score was the best story in here, but there wasn't a bad one among the lot! Ego itself I did particularly enjoy, despite it's obvious limitations I really enjoyed being taken for the ride! I didn't think Batman: Year One was as good as everyone made out, as a standalone comic, but do enjoy reading the year one comics in general (especially the one's starring Catwoman), but I think I've pretty much got "all of them" now anyway?! I think, conversely, DKR and Caped Crusader I might also like because they are "endings" for the Batman, and I quite like that closure (see beginning, middle and end above).

[Kate Fatale]

Ra's Al Ghul - Haven't read any of his comics yet, he always seems to work alone rather than be included in any collection of rogues gallery? I've ordered Tales of the Demon to rectify this (although I'm worried about it's 1970's-ness, the others were far too expensive).
You're right about him mostly working alone; he doesn't team up very well. Tales of the Demon is filled with 70s cheesiness, but it's how he started and it also sets the stage for his constant habit of trying to manipulate Batman. If you decide you like him and want to buy more of his stories in the future, let me know and I can give you a pretty big list of recommendations. :wink:

Bane - Really enjoyed Knightfall part one, (apart from the Hatter's appearance). Want to get Vengeance of Bane, but it's uncollected. Tempted by Knightfall part two, but considering there is a huge section of this arc missing, I don't think I will bother... So think I am "done" with Bane, which seems a bit of a shame.
Chuck Dixon's work with Bane is some of the best; I don't remember, though, if it was collected into Knightfall.

Having said that, "Joker" was excellent, and chapter 3 of Dark Knight Returns is probably my favourite chapter of my favourite collected edition!
Azzarello does some really interesting reinterpretations of villains. If you get into Superman, his one-shot "Luthor" does for Lex what "Joker" does for the Joker. It sounds like you much prefer dark, gritty, but still human Joker to the almost inhuman clownish one.

[Patroklos]

Please keep checking in with your opinions, it's always a good read. It will be fun to see what you think of Broken City, mood-wise it's one of my absolute favorite Batman stories ever. From what I've read here it should be right up your alley!

About No Man's Land; I really don't think you would be missing anything significant if you skipped it. It's a huge story page-wise, but very few parts of it are any good IMO and for such a cataclysmic event it has had very little effect on the Batman canon.

[hc00jw]

Chuck Dixon's work with Bane is some of the best; I don't remember, though, if it was collected into Knightfall.

Sadly not, Bane's first appearance remains uncollected! Also, the Knightfall story arc is missing the middle section (Knightquest) which split into two, following both Bruce Wayne and the new Batman! I think I would buy the entire Bane arc, from his first appearance through to KnightsEnd, (and possibly a little of the aftermath afterwards?) if it were cheap enough for me to obtain! Maybe this will happen with Dark Knight Rises on the horizon, but, we'll see!

So, I read through When in Rome, which I absolutely loved! Can't get enough Catwoman at the moment, and I am taking it the Riddler appearance was the one mentioned previously... I really enjoyed this appearance by the Riddler again, he's just been a constant charm in any comic I've read him in, although he's either been a supporting character or the short story in "Caped Crusader".

I have also since read through City of Crime... Which I found to be too supernatural... Too unfocused, with loose ends that didn't seem to be tied off... I liked the appearances of the Penguin and Scarface when they happened, but the moments were too fleeting... Freeze did exactly what I expected by the end, so I don't see the need to pursue that character any further! I don't really know what I was supposed to take away from City of Crime...

I have just finished Strange Apparitions though, and while I am still wary of 70's comics (Dr. Phosphorus, really? I nearly gave up with this one when Hugo appeared on the scene), I actually gained a new appreciation of The Laughing Fish through reading Strange Apparitions... I wish I had read this Joker story in the proper context the first time around, it made so much more sense the second time through! I was expecting for the last chapter or so to go back to Strange, but it just left that unresolved? I have googled this and it seems that this is how DC left it for 5 odd years (Until Batman #356 (Feb. 1983))?! I did feel like I needed some sort of closure here, but I loved the set up! Actually really looking forward to "Monster Men" arriving now, if it ever does (ordered exactly a month ago today, still hasn't arrived, although Amazon say I shouldn't complain until 14th of March, we'll see)... I am also definitely going to look out for prey!

I have read the first few pages of Broken City, just to get a taster, and love the style / Croc setup so far... Eager to finish this one tonight, and then it's on to Tales of the Demon, Death in the Family (still scouring eBay here), and then Hush for more Catwoman goodness!

Edit: Oh, and I also read "Poison Ivy", which, again, did exactly what I expected it to, so I won't be pursuing this character any further!

[Jody Garland]

Just so you know, the King Tut arc in Batman Confidential was collected, It was called King Tut's Tomb, and included a few other issues, but I don't know what they are.

[kirkoy]

Joker
Mr. Freeze

all batman characters



sun glasses (http://www.ctswholesalesunglasses.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=9)

[hc00jw]

Just so you know, the King Tut arc in Batman Confidential was collected, It was called King Tut's Tomb, and included a few other issues, but I don't know what they are.

Ordered, thank you!

[Bad Wolf]

Scarecrow: "Absolute Terror" (Detective #835-836)

[Wexquif]

While we are at it, do is there a good Black Mask story? The best I've read has been Under the Hood.

[FoxBroome]

If you like Catwoman, she is at her fiesty best in Hush, plus you don't need to read Dark Victory to enjoy When in Rome, although I recommend it. Like you, I found Long Halloween quite underwhelming. DV is far superior. For what it's worth, Monster Men was disappointing also, although some do like it. A good Two Face story is Jekyll and Hyde, very gritty and penned by underrated writer Paul Jenkins. Pick up Azzarello's great Batnoir tale Broken City for some Ventriloquist action and a different take on Killer Croc. Black Mask shines in Under the Hood, which has finally received some well deserved respect with the release of the DVD.

[BFF]

Penguin had a good story in Showcase '94 but that was really, really short. Like half an issue. There just haven't been many good ones with Cobblepot. I guess because he's so non-threatening.

[hc00jw]

I've finished Broken City now... And it just felt like that comic was written just for me! Loved it from cover to cover! Just felt like it had the Croc, Penguin and Ventriloquist I was looking for... Nay, crying out for in this thread! I do get the impression that this particular style is a bit of a one-off in the whole batman world though(?!), and that I am now "done" with these 3 characters as a result.

I did also receive Monster Men, and have read through this... And thought it was far too much rooted in it's original story, rather than trying to break away and present it for a much more mature audience, like all other Year One stories have done! I've not read the original Monster Men (Batman #1 was it?), but I can't imagine what this re-make actually adds! Just seemed like it was a generic "good guy stopping the bad guy who is taking advantage of vulnerable people" type story... As a result, I've read both Monster Men and Strange Apparitions, and I still don't really know anything more about Hugo Strange than when i started... I might still pick up Prey if I see it cheap enough, but, to be honest, I feel like giving up on Strange!

I have now started reading Tales of the Demon... And can't believe this was written in the 1970's! Sure, there are a few telltale signs, but on the whole, and from my experience so far, it reads like a collection of comics that were much ahead of it's time! Getting quite engrossed right now... I feel this was a side of Batman that was missing from all other comics I've read before, and only Ra's was able to bring that out! Hopefully the momentum of this collection carries on from the first quarter through to the end!

[hc00jw]

I really enjoyed all of Tales of the Demon, from start to finish (I read the remaining 150+ pages on Monday evening)! Consider me a Ra's convert! Between this, Strange Apparitions and The Joker's Five Way Revenge I have a new found respect for what was achieved in the 70's... I appreciate that these are probably the exceptions rather than the rules, however, I'm not quite as wary of buying any collections from the 70's in the future from here on out!


You're right about him mostly working alone; he doesn't team up very well. Tales of the Demon is filled with 70s cheesiness, but it's how he started and it also sets the stage for his constant habit of trying to manipulate Batman. If you decide you like him and want to buy more of his stories in the future, let me know and I can give you a pretty big list of recommendations. :wink:

From what I've gathered elsewhere in this thread;

Ra's Al Ghul - Death and the Maidens, Tales of the Demon, Son of the Demon, Tower of Babel.

I've seems that Birth of the Demon is also good;

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/832/832520p1.html

? However, birth is ridiculously expensive everywhere I can find it, as much as I would love to read this from what I can tell!

And then JLA doesn't interest me that much, so I'm not going to buy Tower of Babel... From the other three, I understand it would probably be best to read in the order of;

Tales of the Demon (done) -> Son of the Demon -> Death and the Maidens

? I'm scouring eBay for a reasonably priced copy of Son right now, although from a quick scout on Death, that also still seems quite expensive... Unless there were other places I should go first if not Son of the Demon?

I've also got won Death in the Family on eBay, should have the Tut stories through soon... So will probably be reading those two and then Hush... I know it's not mentioned here yet, but I am also scouring eBay for "Venom", as it's sort of connected to Bane and as I just liked the premise, really! Still looking for Prey, if I can get that cheap enough, but Monster Men has lessened my enthusiasm for more Strange... Also Gotham Underground and Batman: Detective, but they are always too expensive! Also tempted by Batman: Shaman, get more year one goodness! I still also have other Arkham comics on my list (Black Orchid, Arkham Reborn and Arkham Asylum: Living Hell), but I don't have the... Impetus to buy those right now!

The last thoughts on my mind are the Scarecrow... Recommended so far are;

Scarecrow - Four of a kind, Study Hall (collected in Batman Adventures Annual #1), Detective #835-836 - Absolute Terror

Thing is, I've read mixed reviews about Four of a Kind, and it's expensive... Absolute Terror seems more expensive than most TPB I've been buying, and as I'm guessing the comics are only 25 pages long(?), I'm worried that if I don't like these comics that I will feel short changed... Then there is Study Hall, but a review of Batman Adventures Annual mentions that it's full of short stories, and it looks like it's the same style as the cartoon(?), so I'm vary wary of this publication also... The other is Scarecrow tales, but I got burnt with the greatest Joker tales collection previously, reading Laughing Fish on it's own, where I wasn't that impressed, and then as a whole in Strange Apparitions, and I don't want to make that mistake again... So, the Scarecrow is still the last villain for me to discover the comic book version of, but despite people trying to help (and thank you ever so much), I'm still unsure how to progress here!

I still want more Catwoman / Riddler / Penguin also, but I'm going to leave that until I've read the above...

Feel like I'm bogging this thread down now with huge mind dumps / rants... Going to try and leave my next post until I've at least read Hush or so... Thank you again all for all feedback and just pointers / help! Maybe try and do another "master list" for best villains appearances to make it useful to people other than just myself(?), as I still feel I'm leeching a little too much off of everyone elses knowledge, while giving nothing back... Either way, again, thank you!

m (_ _) m

[Lord Bravery]

Probably already been mentioned but Brian Azzarello's Joker was great.