Clor: The Thor CYBORG

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

I'm sorry, I don't have moderator abilities or else I would have pulled posts out of other topics and used them to create this thread, but let this be known as the final thread on the topic of Clor.

Many people believe that Tony, Reed and Pym, based on what I assume is the terminology of the word "clone" used in the pages of Civil War, make Clor a rapidly aged God clone who was gutted and filled with robotic parts.

I own the Civil War hardback, which comes with the scripts and commentary from Millar and Brevoort. I finally went back to them and have much more insight onto the matter.



Pull back for a full-page splash and the most bad-ass image ever as a furious, bloodied Hercules smashes the Hammer into the Thor cyborg, chunks of flesh and circuitry going everywhere as he's just smashed to pieces.

Now, this already debunks one theory I heard that the artist took liberty and messed up. It also supports the theory that they cloned skin and muscles from Thor's hair to place outside of the cyborg skeleton. That makes a whole lot more sense then them gutting a clone, especially considering that the imagery shows tubes and what-not leading from Thor's "organs".

Another nice quip from Tom Brevoort:

Make no mistake -- (this is) meant to be a creepy sequence, in that this is where the readers become aware of exactly what it is that Tony and Reed and Hank have done at this point. But the ear-probe and the blood are all details that Steve threw into the sequence -- presumably to make it even more creepy and unsetttling -- so don't read too much into them.

Brevoort also goes on to call Clor a "duplicate" in much of the remainder of the commentary. However, after reading it again, even the notes are quite ambiguous about this situation. You need to read between the lines though. When Brevoort starts talking about how all the hammer Clor uses is just technology that produces the same stuff Thor does, but isn't the same, is another good giveaway that they didn't directly clone a God. Also, you need to realize that Clor had a shutdown code, and you have to wonder how, and when, that was put in place if they directly cloned Thor. A direct Thor clone would be too powerful to sedate in order to put in mechanical parts. It makes a load more sense that they cloned parts of Thor from the DNA Tony had in order to produce a cyborg as realistic as Thor as possible. At this point, everyone thought Thor was dead and to have Thor on your side, even after the initial war, would have been a great move on that team's side. What human in the MU wouldn't route for Thor?

Now, I will admit that there is a lot of grey area, especially in the dialog. Reed does say that he helped create a new super-human and they do use the word clone A LOT, but the evidence against Clor being a direct clone that was gutted outweighs the evidence that they did just that. My understanding is that as the story progressed, and the plans for Clor were laid down the more defined this "clone" became. For that reason, I don't think you can't take what's in the script from issue 3 with the same weight as issue 7 (in which Millar goes from calling it a clone to a cyborg), because by issue 7 they had a better, more fleshed out understanding of what this Thor "clone" actually was. I can see how it can be misconstrued though.

I know you guys have a lot to say on this matter, but hopefully this clears some things up. If you hate Tony Stark because he "killed a living creature", like Tom said, I think you're reading way too far into this.

[Gnarl]

1) We don't exactly know how the "God of x" thing works. Is it genetic? Is it like a title, "lord of the Moors"? Or is it some kind of deeply individual, spiritual connection to a concept?

Point is, we cannot assume that Clor would have weather powers just because he shares Thors DNA. Does Nobilis have weather powers?

2) Reed and Tony was musing on the necessity of fusing him with a Donald Blake, implying that this would be possible.

Personally, I am of the belief that the immortal, imperishable flesh recovers when he is wounded. While the cybernetic devices do not recover without repairing. Hence he gets more and more biological and less cybernetic as time goes by.

[jackolover]

Firstly, the Jackel had clone technology 30 years ago, so cloning Thor isn't an issue for these 3 genius's. As for if they can sedate the clone to do their work, as it's growing in the tank, it's asleep, and they can take it out and put in the techno brain parts while the clone is still in the processes of hibernation.

I think the end result of Hercules smashing of Clor was after MORE tech was placed into Clors brains, because of the malfunction of killing Goliath. Remember in WhatIF? CW, when the war got so escalated and they had grow an army of clors, (unless these were Terminators, Bio flesh over mechanized chassis), then these were ferocious rampaging clones? The Clor that we saw in CW was just a first attempt.

I would think a flesh over chassis would look like that bug creature that was in Men in Black. The big took off the shell of a human and wore it with a very bad fit, and walked very jerkily.

[TonyStark1012]

I'm sorry, I don't have moderator abilities or else I would have pulled posts out of other topics and used them to create this thread, but let this be known as the final thread on the topic of Clor.

Many people believe that Tony, Reed and Pym, based on what I assume is the terminology of the word "clone" used in the pages of Civil War, make Clor a rapidly aged God clone who was gutted and filled with robotic parts.

I own the Civil War hardback, which comes with the scripts and commentary from Millar and Brevoort. I finally went back to them and have much more insight onto the matter.



Now, this already debunks one theory I heard that the artist took liberty and messed up. It also supports the theory that they cloned skin and muscles from Thor's hair to place outside of the cyborg skeleton. That makes a whole lot more sense then them gutting a clone, especially considering that the imagery shows tubes and what-not leading from Thor's "organs".

Another nice quip from Tom Brevoort:


Brevoort also goes on to call Clor a "duplicate" in much of the remainder of the commentary. However, after reading it again, even the notes are quite ambiguous about this situation. You need to read between the lines though. When Brevoort starts talking about how all the hammer Clor uses is just technology that produces the same stuff Thor does, but isn't the same, is another good giveaway that they didn't directly clone a God. Also, you need to realize that Clor had a shutdown code, and you have to wonder how, and when, that was put in place if they directly cloned Thor. A direct Thor clone would be too powerful to sedate in order to put in mechanical parts. It makes a load more sense that they cloned parts of Thor from the DNA Tony had in order to produce a cyborg as realistic as Thor as possible. At this point, everyone thought Thor was dead and to have Thor on your side, even after the initial war, would have been a great move on that team's side. What human in the MU wouldn't route for Thor?

Now, I will admit that there is a lot of grey area, especially in the dialog. Reed does say that he helped create a new super-human and they do use the word clone A LOT, but the evidence against Clor being a direct clone that was gutted outweighs the evidence that they did just that. My understanding is that as the story progressed, and the plans for Clor were laid down the more defined this "clone" became. For that reason, I don't think you can't take what's in the script from issue 3 with the same weight as issue 7 (in which Millar goes from calling it a clone to a cyborg), because by issue 7 they had a better, more fleshed out understanding of what this Thor "clone" actually was. I can see how it can be misconstrued though.

I know you guys have a lot to say on this matter, but hopefully this clears some things up. If you hate Tony Stark because he "killed a living creature", like Tom said, I think you're reading way too far into this.

Thank you SomeBodyatCBR for posting this! I have been trying to arguing this point for a very long time now.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

You know, this isn't as one-sided as I remembered it. Although, I'm pretty sure they didn't directly clone Thor. Like Brevoort said about the blood and stuff, you guys are reading into it to deeply.

[marvell2100]

I would still wonder why they would grow a full bodied clone only to remove all the organs. I'm sure that they could have put something in his genetic sequencing in order for them to control him if he were a full clone. I think they just used Thor's genetic material to put a skin on Clor so that he would past the eye test. Also his "organs" could be synthetic.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

I would still wonder why they would grow a full bodied clone only to remove all the organs. I'm sure that they could have put something in his genetic sequencing in order for them to control him if he were a full clone. I think they just used Thor's genetic material to put a skin on Clor so that he would past the eye test. Also his "organs" could be synthetic.

That's very logical of you. :biggrin:

[marvell2100]

That's very logical of you. :biggrin:

I'm part Vulcan you know. Live long and prosper and such.:smile:

[XPac]

I would still wonder why they would grow a full bodied clone only to remove all the organs. I'm sure that they could have put something in his genetic sequencing in order for them to control him if he were a full clone. I think they just used Thor's genetic material to put a skin on Clor so that he would past the eye test. Also his "organs" could be synthetic.

I don't think necessarily all the organs were removed.

The only thing we know for SURE is mechanical as far as I can tell is the brain... and it makes perfect sense to replace it with something mechanical if you want to control the thing.

The bigger question for me is why would they bother just cloning Thor's skin? The tech behind Life Model Decoys already creates pretty darn perfect replicas of people without requiring cloning.

Really, the only value in cloning Thor would be in getting that class 100 muscle.

[marvell2100]

I don't think necessarily all the organs were removed.

The only thing we know for SURE is mechanical as far as I can tell is the brain... and it makes perfect sense to replace it with something mechanical if you want to control the thing.

The bigger question for me is why would they bother just cloning Thor's skin? The tech behind Life Model Decoys already creates pretty darn perfect replicas of people without requiring cloning.

Really, the only value in cloning Thor would be in getting that class 100 muscle.

I'm thnking along the lines of Terminator. The skin is living tissue and could be used to mask any electronics from detection if the anti regs had any tech that could do that. As far as LMDs go, maybe they were afraid that Cap would be able to tell seeing as he's worked with SHIELD for so long. Maybe he would be able to tell the difference.

[Alan2099]

You know, this isn't as one-sided as I remembered it. Although, I'm pretty sure they didn't directly clone Thor. Like Brevoort said about the blood and stuff, you guys are reading into it to deeply.
If they didn't want people to read into it, they shouldn't have included it.

Also, Clor is a horrible name. I've always hated it. I've always preferred Cyber-Thor or Thorborg.

[XPac]

I'm thnking along the lines of Terminator. The skin is living tissue and could be used to mask any electronics from detection if the anti regs had any tech that could do that. As far as LMDs go, maybe they were afraid that Cap would be able to tell seeing as he's worked with SHIELD for so long. Maybe he would be able to tell the difference.

I frankly think Cap was able to tell the difference either way. It's not like Clor did that good a job fooling anyone.

To me it just makes more sense that they cloned Thors body, then removed what they didn't need... cloning just the skin seems pointless. Whereas cloning the body of arguably the most powerful being on the planet at the time actually has value. It's why Hank (or Skull Hank) would say that he can't believe they cloned a god. I imagine Hank would be slightly less impressed over them managing the create a good Thor disguise.

[Mark_S]

Quote:
Make no mistake -- (this is) meant to be a creepy sequence, in that this is where the readers become aware of exactly what it is that Tony and Reed and Hank have done at this point. But the ear-probe and the blood are all details that Steve threw into the sequence -- presumably to make it even more creepy and unsetttling -- so don't read too much into them.


So he is telling us that not only wasn't he in control of the writer he wasn't even in control of the artist? What did this guy do all day? And now he's trying to set the record straight in a commentary years and years after the issue has been in print... Wow.

And what ever it was that killed Goliath it was still put into motion by Tony, Reed and Skrull Hank. I wonder if Johny and Ben would have been so forgiving if it were Sue that had been killed, or how Reed would have explained it to the kids? Or if Johny had been killed would a quick second honeymoon in space have been enough for Sue to get over it? Just as well that Goliath was a character no one cared about. Would have been interesting to see the real Thor's reaction if Cap had been killed.

Mark_S

[jackolover]

You know, this isn't as one-sided as I remembered it. Although, I'm pretty sure they didn't directly clone Thor. Like Brevoort said about the blood and stuff, you guys are reading into it to deeply.

But how do you make face and hands without cloning the whole body? We saw clone bodies floating around in the tanks in CW #4.

[mikekerrIII]

I would still wonder why they would grow a full bodied clone only to remove all the organs. I'm sure that they could have put something in his genetic sequencing in order for them to control him if he were a full clone. I think they just used Thor's genetic material to put a skin on Clor so that he would past the eye test. Also his "organs" could be synthetic.
Growing cloned skin, In the right shape without a body doesn't seem like what was described, you would not call that a clone at all.

And why bother, if they only wanted the appearance of Thor LMD tech has been agound a LONG time in the MU

I think that the biggest problem with this being so hard to understand is i really don't think they bothered to understand what a clone is before they wrote the story.

[XPac]

But how do you make face and hands without cloning the whole body? We saw clone bodies floating around in the tanks in CW #4.

Yeah... not that I'm an expert in cloning or anything, but I would think it would be difficult to clone the skin in the exact right shape without cloning a good portion of the rest (at least the muscles and the bones).

[Zach J.]

Reading this thread makes me want to re-read my comics featuring cyborg Thor. I wasn't too fond of him my first time reading, but maybe that will change.

[worstblogever]

I still don't think of him as "Clor" or "Ragnarok" as much as I do "Blunderstrike".

[Finganforn]

What human in the MU wouldn't route for Thor? Any religious nut (and some not so nut, but not so far from it) from any active religion that isn't Asatru or any form of Nordic neopaganism? :P



The bigger question for me is why would they bother just cloning Thor's skin? The tech behind Life Model Decoys already creates pretty darn perfect replicas of people without requiring cloning.

Two obvious reasons. The first is that Millar and Continuity are bitter enemies, even more than Bendis and Continuity. And it is just another case (from many on that event) of him forcing the 'circles' to fit in the 'square holes' so his "story" can 'work'. In his parallel dimension LMDs are harder to make than cloning tissue and making a cyborg/clone/"thing I wonder why Ultron didn't invade, cover in adamantium and become even more scaring". The other is that he loves too much Shock & Awe (almost as much as he hates Continuity). "We cloned a GOD" and "I can't believe you cloned a GOD!" sounds much more "shocking" than "J00, we built ourselves a Thorminator... High Five!" or "Great, they aren't just locking us in another dimension, they are also making low quality mechanic duplicates and stealing visual identity from the dead, such losers".

But who am I to point the actual problems here, you people go on trying to rationalize it in-story terms, I will just go buy more popcorn cause I can never have enough of that.

[Gnarl]

The only thing we know for SURE is mechanical as far as I can tell is the brain... and it makes perfect sense to replace it with something mechanical if you want to control the thing.

I got the impression from his appearance in...was it the Initiative? When he believed himself to be Thor, that he had fragments of Thors memories. As well as responses like "I am no myth!" that were obviously not programmed in.

So I think there were some organic components there. Or spiritual. Norse gods would seem to have a powerful spiritual component.

Anyway, I think it possible that as the mechanical parts were damaged, the immortal body replaced them with organic material -and that the process was unexpected for his makers.

[Thursaiz]

My Civil War issues are buried away in my collection.

Wasn't the clone destroyed and rebuilt previous to the Hercules fight? My memory is that he was taken out of commission in a fight with Storm.

There was also a monologue with Peter Parker talking about how Tony had taken a hair from Thor, and they used it to clone Thor.

Again, this was several years ago and I could be wrong.

[Rage.Of.Olympus]

As I recall, Ragnarok and Storm had a brief battle in which she created an EMP in his head that took him down for a few brief seconds. When he got back up, Hercules intervened and their battle commenced -mostly off panel- with Hercules finally managing to end him.

Regarding Ragnarok: I'm not sure how much is organic and how much is mechanical. I don't know about Millar's original intentions but from what I've seen, his more clone than cyborg. If he was simply a robot, they wouldn't fail so miserably in controlling him as shown when he first appeared and further on in initiative; Ragnarok grew beyond their technology. IIRC, even his hammer could only be wielded by him after his death and rebirth. There's also the out of the blue self restoration capabilities.

Either way, Tony violated everything with Ragnarok that he would with a straight up non mechanical clone. Like Thor "explained" to Stark, he took his genetic code, violated it, and went on to tell the world that the creation that sprung from this research was Thor.

Shame that Reed and Thor haven't "discussed" Ragnarok. Gillen clearly was aware of Reed's involvement as shown in his run; there was unfinished business between him and Thor. Unfortunately, five gets you ten, this will all be forgotten by future writers.

[Post Monster]

Shame that Reed and Thor haven't "discussed" Ragnarok.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall for that one...

[Rage.Of.Olympus]

:tongue:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatFF42.jpg

[Exo]

it's been stated multiple times in the book that the Cloned Thor.

Their word is baseless if no actual proof is ever shown. And what has been said was immediately contradicted in the very same book.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8308/51366488.png

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2081/83312706.png

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/133/20097963.png

Just look at the facts: It got its head cracked open and "died". Now I'm no doctor, but shouldn't any organs inside die along with the host? Anyway a couple of months later it reassembles its shattered skull (what medical doctors would call a miracle), due to a failsafe in its programming, and went on a programmed killing-spree. From what I gather, Clor (or as I call him; Thorminator) is nothing but mechanical from the inside out.

[Jason Abbadon]

Yeah... not that I'm an expert in cloning or anything, but I would think it would be difficult to clone the skin in the exact right shape without cloning a good portion of the rest (at least the muscles and the bones).
Actually, scientists grew a human ear on the back of a lab mouse a couple of years back- they can make cells grow in pre-determined shapes (like an ear), so whipping up some Thor parts in the MU is not inplausable.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Chimeras/human_mouse-ear.jpg

Again, I float this theory:
Reed and Pym (the skrull) planned on growing a real Thor clone (like the High Evolutionary did, but then, he's waaay smarter than even Reed) but, the skrulls not wanting thor back, sabotaged something in the mix and so all those robot stuff was needed- probably in a ratio close to tthe Terminator- flesh and blood over robot endoskeleton- no organs and only a remenant of Thor's memory mixed in with the computer brain (just like Deathlok).

[jackolover]

Regarding Ragnarok: I'm not sure how much is organic and how much is mechanical. I don't know about Millar's original intentions but from what I've seen, his more clone than cyborg. If he was simply a robot, they wouldn't fail so miserably in controlling him as shown when he first appeared and further on in initiative; Ragnarok grew beyond their technology. IIRC, even his hammer could only be wielded by him after his death and rebirth. There's also the out of the blue self restoration capabilities.

.

As I recall, the Skrull Pym had left a trip program in Ragnorak, that if the Skrull didn't reset it, Ragnorak would self repair and go on a Rampage, which he did to Asgard after Siege, where Thor applied the final smackdown to his evil twin brother.

But those pictures above are compelling evident the Clone was a large part robot, even though the strength capabilities (one third as strong as Thor - WhatIF? CW), make this a very powerful robot, so you would think Reed wasn't capable of building that, but it had to have Thor's intrinsic biological frame?

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

Two obvious reasons. The first is that Millar and Continuity are bitter enemies, even more than Bendis and Continuity. And it is just another case (from many on that event) of him forcing the 'circles' to fit in the 'square holes' so his "story" can 'work'. In his parallel dimension LMDs are harder to make than cloning tissue and making a cyborg/clone/"thing I wonder why Ultron didn't invade, cover in adamantium and become even more scaring". The other is that he loves too much Shock & Awe (almost as much as he hates Continuity). "We cloned a GOD" and "I can't believe you cloned a GOD!" sounds much more "shocking" than "J00, we built ourselves a Thorminator... High Five!" or "Great, they aren't just locking us in another dimension, they are also making low quality mechanic duplicates and stealing visual identity from the dead, such losers".

But who am I to point the actual problems here, you people go on trying to rationalize it in-story terms, I will just go buy more popcorn cause I can never have enough of that.

I think this is a lot of it too. Do you even think Millar knows about LMDs? Also, a lot of it is exaggeration, which is needed in these kinds of things. But to take them all so literal, especially to the point where you find a comic book character appalling due to some ambiguous reason, I think you need to loosen up.

Also, just because they used his DNA doesn't mean they only used it for cloning, they could have used imported it into a mechanical brain, which is how they got Clor to act the way he does, like an LMD.

[TonyStark1012]

Actually, scientists grew a human ear on the back of a lab mouse a couple of years back- they can make cells grow in pre-determined shapes (like an ear), so whipping up some Thor parts in the MU is not inplausable.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Chimeras/human_mouse-ear.jpg

Exactly!Especially in comics where they build Time Machines and other things along those lines. Also I remember them showing that mouse like that and it's still creepy.

[TonyStark1012]

Their word is baseless if no actual proof is ever shown. And what has been said was immediately contradicted in the very same book.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8308/51366488.png

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2081/83312706.png

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/133/20097963.png

Just look at the facts: It got its head cracked open and "died". Now I'm no doctor, but shouldn't any organs inside die along with the host? Anyway a couple of months later it reassembles its shattered skull (what medical doctors would call a miracle), due to a failsafe in its programming, and went on a programmed killing-spree. From what I gather, Clor (or as I call him; Thorminator) is nothing but mechanical from the inside out.

That's exactly what I'm saying. People are looking at the word instead of actual evidence.

[marvell2100]

Actually, scientists grew a human ear on the back of a lab mouse a couple of years back- they can make cells grow in pre-determined shapes (like an ear), so whipping up some Thor parts in the MU is not inplausable.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Chimeras/human_mouse-ear.jpg

Again, I float this theory:
Reed and Pym (the skrull) planned on growing a real Thor clone (like the High Evolutionary did, but then, he's waaay smarter than even Reed) but, the skrulls not wanting thor back, sabotaged something in the mix and so all those robot stuff was needed- probably in a ratio close to tthe Terminator- flesh and blood over robot endoskeleton- no organs and only a remenant of Thor's memory mixed in with the computer brain (just like Deathlok).

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Mark_S]

I wonder if Clor was fully anatomically correct? If so was it capable of reproduction and what would the kids have been like?

So many questions were created by this one plot point which is a credit to the writer; yet so few answers were given which decrements the writer.

Mark_S

[TonyStark1012]

It was never said, but as I've stated before I think skrull Pym sabotaged clor. They sabotaged everything else, but choose not to sabotage clor??!! It made Tony's side look really bad and it further embedded the heroes into their stances which keep them seperated.

[Mark_S]

It was never said, but as I've stated before I think skrull Pym sabotaged clor. They sabotaged everything else, but choose not to sabotage clor??!! It made Tony's side look really bad and it further embedded the heroes into their stances which keep them seperated.

It would have made more sense to re-program Clor to serve the skrull cause. About fifty of those things would have made the skrull invasion of Earth a success no matter how dumb the skrulls were.

Mark_S

[jackolover]

It was never said, but as I've stated before I think skrull Pym sabotaged clor. They sabotaged everything else, but choose not to sabotage clor??!! It made Tony's side look really bad and it further embedded the heroes into their stances which keep them separated.

Well, the Skrull Pym did install that sub-routine that if the machine was re calibrated it would go into death-dealing mode, so if the Skrull did that much already, why not a little sabotage? It just wasn't stated in the books, because Reed looked at the thing a lot until it was destroyed by Hercules, so Reed would have seen any tampering. I think the Skrulls only implanted the sub-routine after Reed gave Clor up to the Initiative, where Reed couldn't examine it anymore.

[Mark_S]

Actually, scientists grew a human ear on the back of a lab mouse a couple of years back- they can make cells grow in pre-determined shapes (like an ear), so whipping up some Thor parts in the MU is not inplausable.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Chimeras/human_mouse-ear.jpg

Again, I float this theory:
Reed and Pym (the skrull) planned on growing a real Thor clone (like the High Evolutionary did, but then, he's waaay smarter than even Reed) but, the skrulls not wanting thor back, sabotaged something in the mix and so all those robot stuff was needed- probably in a ratio close to tthe Terminator- flesh and blood over robot endoskeleton- no organs and only a remenant of Thor's memory mixed in with the computer brain (just like Deathlok).

I wonder how the mouse felt.

Mark_S

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

Actually, scientists grew a human ear on the back of a lab mouse a couple of years back- they can make cells grow in pre-determined shapes (like an ear), so whipping up some Thor parts in the MU is not inplausable.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Chimeras/human_mouse-ear.jpg

Again, I float this theory:
Reed and Pym (the skrull) planned on growing a real Thor clone (like the High Evolutionary did, but then, he's waaay smarter than even Reed) but, the skrulls not wanting thor back, sabotaged something in the mix and so all those robot stuff was needed- probably in a ratio close to tthe Terminator- flesh and blood over robot endoskeleton- no organs and only a remenant of Thor's memory mixed in with the computer brain (just like Deathlok).

That was actually the basis of one South Park episode (Eek a Penis) where they cloned Mr(s) Garrison's penis to give him a sex change back.

One thing I do want to say is that man, for such a varied interpretation of one word, I'm so glad that this was written in English. Imagine if it were written in something like Japanese, where when translated certain phrases can have several different meanings!

Edit: Also, about the theory, it's really good, but honestly I couldn't care about the rationale behind it. I never took it as such a malicious act to begin with, and I'm certainly not judging my perspective of any of those characters based on this one action. But the theory is good and logical and fits into continuity afterwards. If it helps you sleep at night, by all means take it as the gospel truth. It just doesn't matter to me how this Thor cloneborg was created, or why. All I know is that it's really far-fetched to believe that it was a true 1:1 clone of Thor that Tony Stark mutilated as opposed to a cyborg built around Thor's DNA. I think that obviously that was never anyone associated with the book's intent.

[Will.S]

The whole Clor thing is an interesting debate.

Some depictions show him as more of a fusion of organics and metals than others but for whatever reason his conception's never been fully revealed to put the debate to rest hence why this comes up so often.

Clor makes sense only up to a certain point and then the logic pretty much just falls apart given that his introduction was mainly done for shock value on Millar's part. Not that it didn't introduce some interesting drama or anything but it didn't seem like the most thought out thing in Civil War.

[NormanB]

There would be no confusion at all had someone had the foresight to nickname him Thorg instead of Clor.

:)

[Cthulhudrew]

Not that it didn't introduce some interesting drama or anything but it didn't seem like the most thought out thing in Civil War.

Which is saying something.

[Hypestyle]

Clor/Ragnarok does not deserve to exist.. i'm sick of clones.. all of them.. let it remain deceased.. I am uninterested in the typical narrative now where someone tries to turn it into a hero.. You already have Beta Ray Bill, the new Thunderstrike, Thor-Girl is out there somewhere.. Clor being "integrated" into the family is overkill..

[Will.S]

Clor/Ragnarok does not deserve to exist.. i'm sick of clones.. all of them.. let it remain deceased.. I am uninterested in the typical narrative now where someone tries to turn it into a hero.. You already have Beta Ray Bill, the new Thunderstrike, Thor-Girl is out there somewhere.. Clor being "integrated" into the family is overkill..
I don't think he was meant to have a long shelf life anyway.

Clor seemed more like a loose end that Marvel wanted to deal with in the right time, which as we've seen was at the end of Dark Reign. Aesthetically I think he was interesting in a sort of Cyborg Superman sort of way but I also felt bad for him as well since he thought he was the real deal for the longest time.

[mikekerrIII]

Also, just because they used his DNA doesn't mean they only used it for cloning, they could have used imported it into a mechanical brain, which is how they got Clor to act the way he does, like an LMD.
Using DNA to determine how he acted? WTF?

[Mark_S]

Using DNA to determine how he acted? WTF?

Let's face it marvel doesn't know and doesn't care to know. Of all of the laziness in the SHRA it is all equaled in Clor. I doubt very much that anyone at marvel could give you a straight answer.

Mark_S

[mikekerrIII]

It was never said, but as I've stated before I think skrull Pym sabotaged clor. They sabotaged everything else, but choose not to sabotage clor??!! It made Tony's side look really bad and it further embedded the heroes into their stances which keep them seperated.

The creation of CLOR in the first place made Tony's side look bad, the actions of their murder-machine/slave were just gravy on the cake.

Sue had the right word for it 'abomination"

[Exo]

The creation of CLOR in the first place made Tony's side look awesome, the actions of their helper-robot were just gravy on the cake.

Sue had the right word for it 'god-like"

Tweaked it. *thumbs up*

[Mark_S]

I'm still wondering how Reed would have felt if Sue had been the one to be killed.

Mark_S

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

Using DNA to determine how he acted? WTF?

Yes. Your dna has the instructions for everything your body does, however only certain proteins and enzymes and junk can access certain parts.

So the dna from the hair was sustainable to "download" and the codes could be used to populate a robotic brain. Not so farfetched for science fiction

[alexforever]

That was another terrible part of an awful series.

[Exo]

I'm still wondering how Reed would have felt if Sue had been the one to be killed.

Devastated?

[Will.S]

I'm still wondering how Reed would have felt if Sue had been the one to be killed.

Mark_S
It'd have been a total drag.

Then he would have gone back in time and rescued her from Clor by destroying him with a kill switch or something.