Chaos War: X-Men #2 Spoilers & Discussion

[Joe Acro]

This week, Marvel's Chaos War came to a conclusion. So, of course, Chaos War: X-Men also had to conclude. (And if you plan to read it and the main mini, it'd probably be better to read this first if you want to read in chronological order.)

The issue has Claremont and Louise Simonson on writing duties; Doug Braithwaite, Rob Schwager, and Ulises Arreola on art; and Dave Sharpe on lettering.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8171/cwxmen.jpg

The issue picks up with the dead characters arriving on Muir Island. As before, Thunderbird narrates the whole issue, providing his own insight on the situation and the people involved. For those who didn't pick up the previous issue, all the characters are reintroduced and the circumstances are summarized--all by Thunderbird.

Thunderbird says there are seven in the group, but he's wrong! What's revealed fairly quickly is that Moira's change in appearance last issue was the result of her touching one of Destiny's Diaries--one that was imbued with a part of Destiny's soul. So, Moira's and Destiny's souls have become merged. This mainly serves the purpose of allowing Destiny to explain what must happen, while still allowing Moira to pop back in and express her care for Banshee.

The plot consists of the dead X-characters fighting off the forces of Carrion Crow, one of the Chaos King's generals. Said forces consist of a lot of aggressive crows and a crow-looking Sophie Cuckoo. And by "a lot of crows", I mean hundreds, possibly thousands. Enough to pick up one of the Madroxes and then rip him to shreds in mid-air.

Sophie gets into a half-physical/half-telepathic battle with Esme.

And the Madroxes and Banshee fight against Carrion Crow and his swarm.

Both ultimately serve as a means of bringing order to the battlefield. With the sides seemingly equally opposed, Thunderbird can access the power of the Thunderbird, a fierce spirit of the Apache and save the day.

Ultimately, only two of the dead characters are left standing at the end of the story. Their fates are left ambiguous.

In case people are curious, yes, there is a "What the devil" in the issue.

In regards to the art, Braithwaite is as solid as always. If you like his art, you'll like this. In particular, he puts great care into depicting the emotions, so that you really feel what the characters are saying.

Overall, the issue is remarkably average. It's solidly told, with respect to the histories of the characters and continuity in general, but doesn't do anything terribly exceptional. It is better than the first issue (which was mostly setup), but really has no impact on the main Chaos War mini.


So, what were other people's thoughts?

[NewMutant]

Unless characters stayed alive afterwards it was pointless. And the only ones who should have stayed alive out of that group is Banshee and Moira. The art was great though.

[theXfactor]

Unless characters stayed alive afterwards it was pointless. And the only ones who should have stayed alive out of that group is Banshee and Moira. The art was great though.

And Esme! xP

[NewMutant]

And Esme! xP

I enjoy Esme, but she is unneeded. Maybe if she became a villian.

[theXfactor]

I enjoy Esme, but she is unneeded. Maybe if she became a villian.

She died as a villain and should return as one. :tongue:

[Faded]

None of these characters need to come back.

Anyway, this was alright. I got bored rather quickly, but I also attribute that to the art. Not a fan of the coloring style/pencils match-up.

[Jack Flash]

I';d love to see Esme and Sophie come back!

[5cents]

I heard only Alpha Flight will get to return to the real world.

[ohsnapulon5000]

fingers totally crossed for Banshee and Moira to be the ones left standing.

[Phoen1xSon]

well this was aslap in the face

[NewMutant]

I heard only Alpha Flight will get to return to the real world.

And Swordsman and Yellowjacket.

I really hope Northstar doesn't regress back to Alpha Flight.

[NewMutant]

She died as a villain and should return as one. :tongue:

True, but her post death appearances... Endsong, Warsong, Chaos War, have been more chummy with her sisters and such.

[stewart48]

And Swordsman and Yellowjacket.

I really hope Northstar doesn't regress back to Alpha Flight.

How would that be a regression? He'd get more face time in alpha flight than he does in uncanny.

[Home made ectoplasm]

How would that be a regression? He'd get more face time in alpha flight than he does in uncanny.

Agreed. Northstar going to Alpha Flight and being separated from Dazzler would be the best thing that could happen to the character.

[NewMutant]

How would that be a regression? He'd get more face time in alpha flight than he does in uncanny.

This is most likely true. However, the X-Men are "bigger" (in many ways) than Alpha Flight. It is similar to Cannonball going back to X-Force after graduating to X-Men. Or even being on New Mutants now.

And for me, I don't like the rest of the Alpha Flight characters enough to justify picking up the book. Unless it ended up being that good.


Agreed. Northstar going to Alpha Flight and being separated from Dazzler would be the best thing that could happen to the character.

Being seperated from his sister and being paired with Dazzler is the best thing to happen to him (and her) in ages. It is one of the only decent things done in Fractions run.

[Joe Acro]

And Swordsman and Yellowjacket.
Van Lente confirmed that neither of them were resurrected. It was only Alpha Flight.

[NewMutant]

Van Lente confirmed that neither of them were resurrected. It was only Alpha Flight.

Oh ok. Didn't know that. Was there ever any sort of plot reasoning as to why they stayed and others didnt?

[Joe Acro]

Oh ok. Didn't know that. Was there ever any sort of plot reasoning as to why they stayed and others didnt?
Not that was made explicit, no. The best assumption is that it has something to do with Hercules's recent closeness to Snowbird.

[MistressMerr]

Oh ok. Didn't know that. Was there ever any sort of plot reasoning as to why they stayed and others didnt?
There was some hinky stuff regarding Alpha Flight's resurrection where it wasn't as simple as just waking up like everyone else did. There was some stuff with Shaman holding them in stasis between the worlds after they died, so I'm guessing that affected their link to the real world somehow.

[bearman]

With the 1st Class movie coming up, it would be foolish to not have sean and moira in the x universe. fingers crossed!

g

[ohsnapulon5000]

With the 1st Class movie coming up, it would be foolish to not have sean and moira in the x universe. fingers crossed!

g

more like Bansquee!

[MistressMerr]

more like Bansquee!
I like you.

[darknessatnoon]

So Moira and Irene are soul mates.

[CMBMOOL]

So Moira and Irene are soul mates.

Somewhere in that sentence there's some irony.:tongue:

[stewart48]

This is most likely true. However, the X-Men are "bigger" (in many ways) than Alpha Flight. It is similar to Cannonball going back to X-Force after graduating to X-Men. Or even being on New Mutants now.

And for me, I don't like the rest of the Alpha Flight characters enough to justify picking up the book. Unless it ended up being that good.



Being seperated from his sister and being paired with Dazzler is the best thing to happen to him (and her) in ages. It is one of the only decent things done in Fractions run.

I still can't see it as regression. He and Dazzler get hardly any time in the book, and they are part of the defacto x-Men

[theXfactor]

True, but her post death appearances... Endsong, Warsong, Chaos War, have been more chummy with her sisters and such.

Ugh. I'd rather forget about those awful Phoenix minis.

[NewMutant]

Ugh. I'd rather forget about those awful Phoenix minis.

Endsong was great. Warsong was uh not.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Sadly, this was the only comic book I was unable to find. Glad for those who bought it enjoyed it, Peace

[ohsnapulon5000]

So Moira and Irene are soul mates.

Moira Mactaggart, ever the efficient Scotswoman even postmortem.

[Zero Hunter]

Van Lente confirmed that neither of them were resurrected. It was only Alpha Flight.

Which is just assine considering those two have the most story potential out of anyone. Some at Marvel should wise up and overrule FVL and have them bakc since it was so confusing as to who lived and who died.

[Peter F.]

Van Lente confirmed that neither of them were resurrected. It was only Alpha Flight.

When did he do that?

[absinthe]

IMO this was worse than the Thor tie-in. I lost track of how many times John acted as a deus-ex-machina vehicle, and the whole thing with Chaos King (entity that existed as the void before creation) being born on Earth.

[AdamYJ]

I never thought I'd say this, but John Proudstar rocks.

It takes some skill to really make someone care about a character who died about 40 years ago.

[AcesX1X]

despite him hitting on esme cuckoo at the end, i was really impressed with thunderbird's leadership in this series. banshee is always a treat too. "accushla!"

[AdamYJ]

despite him hitting on esme cuckoo at the end, i was really impressed with thunderbird's leadership in this series. banshee is always a treat too. "accushla!"

This is so sad. The best X-Men stuff I'm reading features characters who are all dead. :frown:

[5cents]

Fred Van Lente Formspring

Can you list who exactly returned from the dead at the end of CW?
FVL: Just those four members of Alpha Flight.

[CMBMOOL]

Fred Van Lente Formspring

Can you list who exactly returned from the dead at the end of CW?
FVL: Just those four members of Alpha Flight.

It once agian shows that everyone, but Alpha Flight and Hercules fans, got the short end of the stick when it came to the end of Chaos war. :frown:

[DeadXMan]

IMO this was worse than the Thor tie-in. I lost track of how many times John acted as a deus-ex-machina vehicle, and the whole thing with Chaos King (entity that existed as the void before creation) being born on Earth.


I'm fairly sure it's not God in a machine when the story is about Gods from all over the universe are fighting each.....

[absinthe]

I'm fairly sure it's not God in a machine when the story is about Gods from all over the universe are fighting each.....

That's not what this story was about (the event, but not this story). This was a story about mortal characters (dead, resurrected, whatever) fighting each other, except for every 3rd page or so where John got his bacon saved by some crazy power that he doesn't have and was explained away as his gods acting through him.

How is it that John's gods are even still around to give him aid when the Chaos King already destroyed all Earth pantheons?

This whole event fell apart at the end, and this issue is no exception.

[Joe Acro]

IMO this was worse than the Thor tie-in. I lost track of how many times John acted as a deus-ex-machina vehicle, and the whole thing with Chaos King (entity that existed as the void before creation) being born on Earth.Does it count as a deus ex machina when it was telegraphed last issue and throughout this one?

[DeadXMan]

Does it count as a deus ex machina when it was telegraphed last issue and throughout this one?

definition:

a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, ability, or object.

so yeah this is not a deus ex machina.

It's more like Chekhov's Gun.

[5cents]

They also brought back someone who Hercules wasn't suppose to bring back who will be the villain in the the new Herc series, funny how that works out really well.

[The Black Guardian]

That's not what this story was about (the event, but not this story). This was a story about mortal characters (dead, resurrected, whatever) fighting each other, except for every 3rd page or so where John got his bacon saved by some crazy power that he doesn't have and was explained away as his gods acting through him.

How is it that John's gods are even still around to give him aid when the Chaos King already destroyed all Earth pantheons?

This whole event fell apart at the end, and this issue is no exception.
This story was precisely about gods fighting gods. John was calling his gods to fight. The Chaos King obviously hadn't destroyed Earth's pantheons at this point.

[Joe Acro]

They also brought back someone who Hercules wasn't suppose to bring back who will be the villain in the the new Herc series, funny how that works out really well.Who do you mean?

[5cents]

Who do you mean?

That's the tease going into the new Herc series so we'll find out when it starts. It gets people interested and asking questions I guess.

[Whim]

the only characters to me that were even relevant in this were Thunderbird and Banshee, and Necrosha was a much better oppurtunity to bring them back. this killed any chance that Banshee stuck around after Necrosha and that annoys me. Banshee had one of the most stupid and pointless death in recent years. I could really care less about Madrox dupes or the other 2 Cuckoos. I think we could have done without this really and just had the Alpha Flight and Avengers series.

[Jack Flash]

the only characters to me that were even relevant in this were Thunderbird and Banshee, and Necrosha was a much better oppurtunity to bring them back. this killed any chance that Banshee stuck around after Necrosha and that annoys me. Banshee had one of the most stupid and pointless death in recent years. I could really care less about Madrox dupes or the other 2 Cuckoos. I think we could have done without this really and just had the Alpha Flight and Avengers series.

just because you don't like the Cuckoos doesn't mean it's relevant. There was that other poster who loves Madrox Dupes too.

[Darth Pipes]

I liked the use of Thunderbird and Banshee in this issue. I wish Banshee was back too. Finally getting a chance to read the early issues of the "All-New, All-Different X-Men" made me realize how much of an underrated character he was.

[Phoen1xSon]

i just wanna understand something.
thunderbird: i get
banshee: i missed since his death
sophie and esme: the only ones with actual personality before they were killed off
moira: meh
madrox dupes: wtf. you mean to tell me of all the x-men characters that have died since the very beginning and you could only come up with the dupes? really? would've been nice to see Synch, Skin, other people who i can't currently think of but you use duplicates that at the very most are expendable. wtf
i can't get over that. just as much as i can't stand the ending to this abortion. the only one who you actually see die is esme and then everything fades into a bright light? really chaos war was just not well planned out all across the board but since i'm more of a x-men fan than the rest of marvel this part's just horrible. would've been great though to see banshee and thunderbird alive again and how that would affect the x-men

[5cents]

It's so no one will really rage if they were dead again at the end esp the dupes. There were a lot of dead x-men that would of been more interesting esp powerwise. It was only two issues and will be quickly forgotten.

[donsey]

I bought this for Banshee. Loved the art, story was fine - just a small piece of an extremely forgettable (unnoticeable?) "event." I really did enjoy the two issues, but probably mostly for sentimental reasons.

As far as using Dupes instead or other dead characters, considering this was a small story, I guess part of it was just not overloading the 2 issues with characters that no real time could be spent on.

Loved that this was Thunderbird's story to tell. So interesting since we never got to see what kind of character he could become.

[insidemyhead]

Not that was made explicit, no. The best assumption is that it has something to do with Hercules's recent closeness to Snowbird.

And perhaps his closeness to Northstar, as well.

[Phoenix]

i just wanna understand something.
thunderbird: i get
banshee: i missed since his death
sophie and esme: the only ones with actual personality before they were killed off
moira: meh
madrox dupes: wtf. you mean to tell me of all the x-men characters that have died since the very beginning and you could only come up with the dupes? really? would've been nice to see Synch, Skin, other people who i can't currently think of but you use duplicates that at the very most are expendable. wtf
i can't get over that. just as much as i can't stand the ending to this abortion. the only one who you actually see die is esme and then everything fades into a bright light? really chaos war was just not well planned out all across the board but since i'm more of a x-men fan than the rest of marvel this part's just horrible. would've been great though to see banshee and thunderbird alive again and how that would affect the x-men

The whole point of the dupes was to be expendable, they were cannon fodder plain and simple.

I was really looking forward to this, and all I can say is the art was great. The story was just ok. And I feel gypped about the return of Banshee and Moira! Damn the man...

[Rheged]

And perhaps his closeness to Northstar, as well.

Heh ... Yes, that too. :smile:

I enjoyed these two issues, but I don't require my comics to be 'relevant,' just enjoyable, and these issues certainly filled the bill. They weren't flashy or particularly necessary, but they featured some really nice art by Braithwaite and solid storytelling about some little used characters. Except for the dupes, they all had unfinished business to resolve and that was handled with far more emotional resonance than in Necrosha. I loved seeing Banshee and Moria together.

[MartinRedmond]

tbh I only really liked Sophie and Esme's fight in this. I would've liked more non "a-list" dead X-Men like Rubbermaid, Onyxx and WindDancer. I thought the team was really small. It could've been a single issue special too. Thunderbird hitting on Sophie made me uncomfortable. :frown:

[AdamYJ]

tbh I only really liked Sophie and Esme's fight in this. I would've liked more non "a-list" dead X-Men like Rubbermaid, Onyxx and WindDancer. I thought the team was really small. It could've been a single issue special too. Thunderbird hitting on Sophie made me uncomfortable. :frown:

Wind Dancer's not dead. She lost her powers and then became the New Warrior called Renascence.

Wallflower on the other hand . . .

[ReturnOfTheComeback]

The demiurge (spirit of the planet) and the one-above-all (creator of both eternity and chaos).

[Alex A Sanchez]

just because you don't like the Cuckoos doesn't mean it's relevant. There was that other poster who loves Madrox Dupes too.

The only reason I bought this damn mini was for the Madrox Dupes. For those that don't know, they have their own personalities, and the one in t-shirt was particularly well like/notorious among Madrox/X-Factor fans.



madrox dupes: wtf. you mean to tell me of all the x-men characters that have died since the very beginning and you could only come up with the dupes? really?

You also have to remember that Simonson and Claremont created and/or developed Madrox. They were the original creators, and aside from David, were really the only people to actually do something with the character.

Besides, as others have pointed out, the dupes didn't actually DO anything or get developed.

[Falamu]

The demiurge (spirit of the planet) and the one-above-all (creator of both eternity and chaos).

Did the "One-Above-All" mentioned in this issue refer to the actual Creator being, or just the Skyfather Manitou? I personally am more inclined towards the latter...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2410/xmen10015.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5742/chaoswarxmen2007.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8313/chaoswarxmen2017.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7703/chaoswarxmen2024.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

Did the "One-Above-All" mentioned in this issue refer to the actual Creator being, or just the Skyfather Manitou? I personally am more inclined towards the latter...

Just Manitou.