Gambit as Death

[fin5]

In Legacy 244 and his role in Second coming Hellbound
How did his transformating into Death Happen and can he control in like Angel can Or Cant I cant tell
And should this Angel Death and Gambit Death be Resoved soon

[Likewater]

As far as I know it is uncontrollable. I suppose he could get Telepathic help like warren. But Monet's in New York and Emma...would you really Trust Emma in your head?

She has compleatly given her will to Cyclops, unless Gambit dosent mind being made Cyclops' little woman as well.

I suppose he could go to the professor. But he still sees the professor as a damn dirty Yankee. Or...something.

I mean neither Sunfire nor Polaris seem to be having problems with their horse man identites.

[remydat]

During the Blood of Apocalypse story Arc (X-men 182-187, also available as a Graphic Novel), Apocalypse returns after M-Day when the mutant population declines to around 200 and offers his form of Salvation. Gambit basically agrees to join Apocalypse so that in the event Apocalypse betrays mutants, Gambit would be there to stop him but Apocalyspe transforms him into Death and Gambit is brainwashed and turns against the X-men.

After Blood of Apocalypse, Gambit goes to Mr. Sinister to help him get rid of Death but his death persona pops up now and again. He can't control it and it will likely not get resolved for a few months.

Angel no longer really has any mental effects of being Death and he can control his Death powers.

[remydat]

As far as I know it is uncontrollable. I suppose he could get Telepathic help like warren. But Monet's in New York and Emma...would you really Trust Emma in your head?

She has compleatly given her will to Cyclops, unless Gambit dosent mind being made Cyclops' little woman as well.

I suppose he could go to the professor. But he still sees the professor as a damn dirty Yankee. Or...something.

I mean neither Sunfire nor Polaris seem to be having problems with their horse man identites.

I am begining to think when Sinister allegedly helped Gambit overcome his Death persona that Sinister did a little more than help and maybe put a little bit of himself in Gambit. I can't imagine that Sinister given his history and interest in Gambit did not tinker in some way with Gambit. It has already been hinted that Deathbit may be more than simply Gambit's dark side but in fact may be a seperate entity. Then again, having it be related to Sinister may be too obvious.

[Likewater]

I am begining to think when Sinister allegedly helped Gambit overcome his Death persona that Sinister did a little more than help and maybe put a little bit of himself in Gambit. I can't imagine that Sinister given his history and interest in Gambit did not tinker in some way with Gambit. It has already been hinted that Deathbit may be more than simply Gambit's dark side but in fact may be a seperate entity. Then again, having it be related to Sinister may be too obvious.

But why would he screw over gambit and not thoes two, well besides both of them being crazy powerfull with hair trigger tempers.

[remydat]

But why would he screw over gambit and not thoes two, well besides both of them being crazy powerfull with hair trigger tempers.

I am not saying Sinister screw over Gambit per se. I am saying that when Gambit needed help in controlling Deathbit, he went to Sinister and Sinister being Sinister put some of his own DNA in Gambit as a failsafe in the event he did not survive the coming events which obviously he did not.

Just like he put his DNA in Xavier and Sebastian Shaw, I think he put it in Deathbit and in whoever became Miss Sinister. Sinister has always had a special connection with Gambit so his DNA may be more suitable for Sinister's purpose more so than Sunfire or Polaris. Sinister has already tinkered with Gambit before as it was Sinister that removed a portion of Gambit's brain to help Gambit control his powers. And it has always been hinted that Gambit may in fact be a creation of Sinister in one fashion or another as part of the Black Womb program. Personally, I would prefer he wasn't but Gambit is and ideal candidate for Sinsiter's tinkering as opposed to Polaris and Sunfire.

[nontoxic]

During the Blood of Apocalypse story Arc (X-men 182-187, also available as a Graphic Novel), Apocalypse returns after M-Day when the mutant population declines to around 200 and offers his form of Salvation. Gambit basically agrees to join Apocalypse so that in the event Apocalypse betrays mutants, Gambit would be there to stop him but Apocalyspe transforms him into Death and Gambit is brainwashed and turns against the X-men.

After Blood of Apocalypse, Gambit goes to Mr. Sinister to help him get rid of Death but his death persona pops up now and again. He can't control it and it will likely not get resolved for a few months.

Angel no longer really has any mental effects of being Death and he can control his Death powers.

What? He can flip back and forth at will, but that does not mean in any way that he has control. He constantly has to have Psylocke in his head to keep him from going batshit and killing everyone. It's been getting portrayed recently as a split personality, and that "Archangel" is a completely separate persona in his head.

[remydat]

What? He can flip back and forth at will, but that does not mean in any way that he has control. He constantly has to have Psylocke in his head to keep him from going batshit and killing everyone. It's been getting portrayed recently as a split personality, and that "Archangel" is a completely separate persona in his head.

Yeah, you are right, I haven't been reading up on the latest Angel so didn't realize. Seems odd that they would have two characters basically dealing witht the same condition. Hopefully, they come up with two unique stories to resolve their respective battles.

[nontoxic]

Yeah, you are right, I haven't been reading up on the latest Angel so didn't realize. Seems odd that they would have two characters basically dealing witht the same condition. Hopefully, they come up with two unique stories to resolve their respective battles.

It is really odd, I agree. I do know that there is supposed to be some reveals regarding Warren's problem in this week's X-Force (according to the recent Rick Remender interview), so that should be interesting.

[Gambit85]

Sinister did help Gambit! If you recall after the fight with the Dark Avenger, cyclops ordered gambit to go blow up the omega machine. When he did that one super powered guard pulled out whatever was blocking his death persona, and ever since then hes had trouble controling it

[remydat]

Sinister did help Gambit! If you recall after the fight with the Dark Avenger, cyclops ordered gambit to go blow up the omega machine. When he did that one super powered guard pulled out whatever was blocking his death persona, and ever since then hes had trouble controling it

Yes Sinister did help Gambit because obviously Gambit returned as his regular self and not Deathbit. All I am saying is I wouldn't be surprised if in addition to helping him, Sinister did not also plant something in Gambit/Deathbit that will be revealed later. Sinister's help is never without a cost for Gambit.

Incidentally, normal Gambit should not have fallen victim to a telepath. I believe the guy's name was Input and he is a low-level telepath. Gambit normally due to his powers is able to resist powerful telepaths like Xavier and Emma Frost.

Perhaps as due his struggles with Deathbit, he is more susceptible to telepaths or perhaps Sinister being a telepath left the backdoor open for a reason ie he never intended Gambit to overcome Deathbit but rather only for Gambit to think he has with Sinister retaining the ability due to leaving his mind susceptible to telepaths to gall on Deathbit whenever Sinister desired. Of course, Sinister died so we may never know or perhaps we may find out once they explore Deathbit more.

[Pantera]

I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon. Although i personally don't see they need for a "Dark" Gambit, the ma has proven he's capable of some pretty despicable stuff without reverting to another form to do so.

Whatever the case, he's in this month's Legacy, i think he has a pretty big role in it too.

[nontoxic]

Yes Sinister did help Gambit because obviously Gambit returned as his regular self and not Deathbit. All I am saying is I wouldn't be surprised if in addition to helping him, Sinister did not also plant something in Gambit/Deathbit that will be revealed later. Sinister's help is never without a cost for Gambit.

I actually hope it's this. Not only would this be an interesting follow-up to Gambit's time with the Marauders, but it would also be a very different story from Warren's plot and I'm really hoping for that.

[mimic_616]

Warren should be the only one with a "Death persona" because, let's face it, without it he sucks.

Gambit, on the other hand, never bad this problem. There was no need for the extra addition of this to his character.

It's also getting pretty ridiculous and uninteresting the more characters take it on. I mean haven't Northstar and Dazzler got Death persona's as well? *sigh*

[remydat]

I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon. Although i personally don't see they need for a "Dark" Gambit, the ma has proven he's capable of some pretty despicable stuff without reverting to another form to do so.

Whatever the case, he's in this month's Legacy, i think he has a pretty big role in it too.

What despicable stuff are you referring to exactly? Most of Gambit's mistakes are because he felt he owed someone a debt which in the case of Sinister is not a good thing.

For example, assembling the Marauders was the result of Gambit owing Sinister because Sinister gave him control over his powers. If not for that Gambit would have likely gone New Son ie the alternate version of Gambit who at full power killed every living being on his planet.

[remydat]

Warren should be the only one with a "Death persona" because, let's face it, without it he sucks.

Gambit, on the other hand, never bad this problem. There was no need for the extra addition of this to his character.

It's also getting pretty ridiculous and uninteresting the more characters take it on. I mean haven't Northstar and Dazzler got Death persona's as well? *sigh*

Well I suppose it depends on how it plays out. In some ways he is better suited to having a Death persona. Gambit certainly has made mistakes for which he has expressed guilt for. At the same time, he has also been raked over the coals by the other X-men for his mistakes more than most.

The X-men have seemed more willing to take in people like Mystique, Sabretooth, Magneto and others who have willing committed far greater sins but yet they abandon Gambit when they find out he assembled the Marauders despite the fact Sabretooth almost killed him once Gambit found out and tried to stop the Mutant Massacre.

When characters like Wolverine go all psychotic and kill innocent people, he is readily accepted back on the basis that he was being manipulated/brainwashed but when Gambit gets turned into Death in a misguided attempt to help the X-men, they abandon him again and he has to go to Sinister to get help.

To me the Gambit/Deathbit struggle is symbolic of the struggle between the part of Gambit that knows and accepts he has a lot to atone for versus the part of Gambit that resents the X-men for how quickly they dump him when he screws up while others seemingly get a pass for their sins.

[nontoxic]

I don't think he's better suited for the Death persona, really. The whole Death thing has been Warren's story since the 80's and it's just strange for it to suddenly be thrust on Gambit as well (and by suddenly, I mean the ability to change back and forth etc). The idea of having Sinister involved and possibly adding a completely different element to it could work much better. Gambit has the history with Sinister and it would be more consistent AND make it more unique.

[remydat]

I don't think he's better suited for the Death persona, really. The whole Death thing has been Warren's story since the 80's and it's just strange for it to suddenly be thrust on Gambit as well (and by suddenly, I mean the ability to change back and forth etc). The idea of having Sinister involved and possibly adding a completely different element to it could work much better. Gambit has the history with Sinister and it would be more consistent AND make it more unique.

I only meant from the perspective of having inner turmoil ie guilt/anger to deal with prior to becoming Death. Angel has dealt with it longer but I saw him as a dark/mysterious character prior to the Death thing so it was not a natural transition. For people like Wolverine and Gambit, they had that dark/mysteriousness thing going before which would make a dual personality fit.

[nontoxic]

I only meant from the perspective of having inner turmoil ie guilt/anger to deal with prior to becoming Death. Angel has dealt with it longer but I saw him as a dark/mysterious character prior to the Death thing so it was not a natural transition. For people like Wolverine and Gambit, they had that dark/mysteriousness thing going before which would make a dual personality fit.

So why couldn't the writers just expand on that aspect of Gambit's character instead? He was already shady, already morally grey, and already had dark parts of his past that could very well still be explored in a unique and creative way. Why rehash a storyline that another character's already using? Gambit's plenty interesting on his own, in my opinion.

I just think that Death gave Warren another layer to his character and took him a step further. It was progression and conflict and something new. For Gambit, he doesn't need a dueling persona when he's already got his own past and ties that haunt him. It just feels unnecessary still.

[DeathMasque]

I don't mind the Deathbit twist, but I DO agree with other posters that it should be handled differently than Warren's.

I think that it would be a great plot twist if it were not really Deathbit inside Gambit, but rather some sort of implanted influence of Sinister's. Anything would be cool, and Sinister's reasons could be many: Maybe he did it so Deathbit would attack the X-Men. Maybe he did it so Deathbit would betray Apocalypse (if he ever turns up in Uncanny X-Force). Maybe he did it to resurrect himself in Gambit. Maybe Gambit got half Sinister's genes, or his powers, or something, and is supposed to hook up with Sinister's clone, Claudine Renko, thus giving birth to Mr. Sinister the second time (how's that for an anti-christ plot?!?). Okay, well, that's why I'm not a writer, HA.

Point is, now that they made Gambit into Death, they can't just ignore it, they gotta do something COOL with it!

[remydat]

So why couldn't the writers just expand on that aspect of Gambit's character instead? He was already shady, already morally grey, and already had dark parts of his past that could very well still be explored in a unique and creative way. Why rehash a storyline that another character's already using? Gambit's plenty interesting on his own, in my opinion.

I just think that Death gave Warren another layer to his character and took him a step further. It was progression and conflict and something new. For Gambit, he doesn't need a dueling persona when he's already got his own past and ties that haunt him. It just feels unnecessary still.

Oh I agree, I would have preferred they not go down that road especially considering they already traveled that road with another character. I am simply saying that Deathbit is a more natural progression of the road Gambit was already on compared to Angel.

Put another way, if you were starting from stratch and trying to decide which character should become Death, I would argue Gambit's personality and backstory including the fact he was originally conceived to betray the X-men fits the Death persona. The thing that makes it ill-conceived is the fact they have already been there done that with other characters.

[remydat]

I don't mind the Deathbit twist, but I DO agree with other posters that it should be handled differently than Warren's.

I think that it would be a great plot twist if it were not really Deathbit inside Gambit, but rather some sort of implanted influence of Sinister's. Anything would be cool, and Sinister's reasons could be many: Maybe he did it so Deathbit would attack the X-Men. Maybe he did it so Deathbit would betray Apocalypse (if he ever turns up in Uncanny X-Force). Maybe he did it to resurrect himself in Gambit. Maybe Gambit got half Sinister's genes, or his powers, or something, and is supposed to hook up with Sinister's clone, Claudine Renko, thus giving birth to Mr. Sinister the second time (how's that for an anti-christ plot?!?). Okay, well, that's why I'm not a writer, HA.

Point is, now that they made Gambit into Death, they can't just ignore it, they gotta do something COOL with it!

Mike Carey has allegedly been given the rights if you will to resolve the Deathbit story so I assume he has something planned and I am guessing it will involve Sinister. At one point he wanted to explore Gambit's parentage and appeared to be heading down the road of Gambit being created by Sinister as part of the Black Womb project but that idea got nixed the editors. So Deathbit might be a way for him to explore the relationship between Sinister and Gambit without getting into the question of Gambit's parentage.

[DeathMasque]

Mike Carey has allegedly been given the rights if you will to resolve the Deathbit story so I assume he has something planned and I am guessing it will involve Sinister. At one point he wanted to explore Gambit's parentage and appeared to be heading down the road of Gambit being created by Sinister as part of the Black Womb project but that idea got nixed the editors. So Deathbit might be a way for him to explore the relationship between Sinister and Gambit without getting into the question of Gambit's parentage.

Well, I HOPE it involves Sinister. I like Mike Carey as a writer, but I hate how Gambit's story is not really going anywhere. And even though the editors don't want to explore Remy's parentage, they do drop hints here and there about it, which drives me nuts. (Apocalypse commented on Gambit's "heritage" when he turned him into Death, and now Miss Sinister said Gambit had "Good genes" in X-23 #5.)

[Likewater]

I was never fond of deathbit, Gambit was always a characters whos darkness was his own. His own, negelct, clousness, selfcenterdness, not something foisted on him.

[Regino]

Deathbit is the personification of Gambit if he never would've met Rogue. She turned a cocksure, independent character into a lovesick, milksop.

[remydat]

Deathbit is the personification of Gambit if he never would've met Rogue. She turned a cocksure, independent character into a lovesick, milksop.

While I can't say I like how Gambit has been protrayed lately regarding his relationship with Rogue, Deathbit is a lot more Sinister to simply be what you suggest. There is a lot more darkness to the character.

[remydat]

Well, I HOPE it involves Sinister. I like Mike Carey as a writer, but I hate how Gambit's story is not really going anywhere. And even though the editors don't want to explore Remy's parentage, they do drop hints here and there about it, which drives me nuts. (Apocalypse commented on Gambit's "heritage" when he turned him into Death, and now Miss Sinister said Gambit had "Good genes" in X-23 #5.)

My hope is that it is not being addressed because whichever writer finally resolves it wants to do so only when they can properly focus on it. Hints have clearly been dropped in Hellbound and with the latest issue of Legacy (224) so I am hoping these little teases led up to something that will make the wait worth it. I would much rather they properly focus on it and fully develop and get to the bottom of what Deathbit is and means for Gambit going forward rather than them to just quickly deal with it just to get it over with.

[remydat]

I was never fond of deathbit, Gambit was always a characters whos darkness was his own. His own, negelct, clousness, selfcenterdness, not something foisted on him.

I don't think Deathbit is something foisted on him. I view it more as the dark parts of his character have separated and found a home within the being we know as Deathbit. So in essence his darkness has taken on a life of its own to the point that it is no longer truly Gambit. Add to that the tinkering of Sinister who may have thrown some other things into the mix and we are where we are with Deathbit.