Sin City

[outlander78]

There is a movie coming out with some A-List actors, and a series of books in the shops. The books appear to be very quickly drawn, poorly produced stories with high price tags. I hope the movie will be better.

Now that I've got the negativity out of the way, could fans of Sin City explain what the draw of the comics is? There must be an up side I'm missing, right?

[TheHistorian]

The upside is that you have... a different appreciation of art from the rest of us.

If you think the art and stories are poor, then I don't even know where to begin.

This is top-notch crime noir and the stripped down art adds to the mood. If you're used to modern Marvel/DC overproduced comic "art" then this will obviously be a huge change for you.

[Screwtape]

Miller's a minimalist. That's about all there is to it. He's writing over-the-top noir stories with parodic elements that aren't quite parodies, which makes it look cliched to people who don't enjoy it.

He's very good at drawing attention to a dramatic centerpeice, whether it's in a single page/panel/drawing, or an entire story. Everything serves a particular story element, usually a "classic" noir-ish one. He likes understatement and contrast a lot, and there's something to be said for complete excess in that department, and that soemthing is Sin City.

"That Yellow Bastard," for example, is a story completely in the service of the hard-boiled cop with one last score to settle.

"A Dame to Kill For" is about the femme fatale.

Incidentally, Rob Rodriguez is directing the film, so if you want to understand Miller's comics a little better, go watch "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" or "From Dusk 'Till Dawn." They work on a lot of the same levels.

[outlander78]

Thanks for the answers and the insight.

I liked Miller's Dark Knight books (both sets), so I believe I can enjoy his art and storytelling. Sin City is just a bit to far out there for me - I'm glad others enjoy it.

[Screwtape]

No problem; have you read his Daredevil books, by any chance? Man Without Fear is kind of his "Year One," and Born Again is a lot like DKR (except in-continuity). Then, of course, he has a long run on the title and the Elektra books, as well as a great tabloid graphic novel with Bill Sienkewicz (sp?) called "Love and War." I always got a big kick out of that stuff.

[outlander78]

I haven't read his Daredevil ongoing run, but I have read Man Without Fear. I did not realize the latter was his work, but I liked it anyway. :) I believe most of his Daredevil run has been collected, but have yet to set aside the funds to buy them.

[heavysoul]

frank miller - along with creators like mike mignola, tim sale and brian wood - is a true expressionist. couple his brilliant writing ability with his mastery of light, shadow, shape, line, mood & pacing and you've got a library of work worth far more than it's weight in gold. if you take a little more time with the books you may find you appreciate the beautiful works of art they are. as far as the price tags go... i never thought of the books as being over priced. Family Values is only Twelve Bucks for 126 pages. Booze, Broads & Bullets is only Fifteen Bucks for 159 pages. That Yellow Bastard is only Nineteen Bucks for 232 pages. the first volume is only Seventeen Bucks. i don't think you'll find another series priced so low for work produced this well by a creator so well respected. anyway that's my Two Cents about the series. on to my thoughts abot the forthcoming film...

it's, in great part, due to miller's name attached to the bill of director i have faith this may end up being the best comic book film to date.

[Screwtape]

it's, in great part, due to miller's name attached to the bill of director i have faith this may end up being the best comic book film to date.

Obviously, you haven't seen the third Robocop movie. Jeezum Crow, it's marvelous bad.

I just finished "A Dame to Kill For" (a purchase brought on by multiple viewings of the movie trailer. "Consumer whore?" "Present!"), and other Christmas-gift related money is going to buy the hardback of "That Yellow Bastard." I really do like this series a great deal, and it makes me like DK2 a lot more.

[heavysoul]

um... yeah, i saw the first robocop film and didn't feel the need to see any sequels. frank miller on Sin City is gonna be different than frank miller on robocop... i assume he had a part in that film, thus the reason for you making that statement.

i think DK2 only sucked for the rabid fans of DK1... i liked it too.

[pood]

He said in Wizard #40 that too many people had creative input on the way the movies were made. He tried to make them in the same vein as the first, but the studio had different plans.

[Voncaster]

Those new format Sin City books are hot.

[The Batman]

to blame Miller for the drop in quality of the Robocop films doesn't seem all that fair. he wrote a script and then handed it off to a studio who did who knows what with it. it's not like he wrote and directed the thing himself.

then again that Miller Robocop 2 comic book thing put together by steven grant from miller's original script wasn't all that good.....

[Predator]

Those new format Sin City books are hot.

I disagree. Dark Horse has basically scaled the books down by 1/3 of their size, yet has kept the price tag the same. To me, that just smacks of greediness. If they're going to decrease the size, the least they could do is knock a few bucks off the cover price. That's why I'm hoping to snag copies of A Dame to Kill For and The Big Fat Kill before DH replaces them with the different format.

BTW, just read the first Sin City book with Marv in it today and loved it. A real man's man, top macho hero! Good stuff from Miller! :)

[heavysoul]

i'm missing A Dame To Kill For and The Big Fat Kill too. i have the rest of the books. i'm not sure how i managed to go this long without those yarns. and i agree, the new format is a rip-off.

[Raging Woody]

Talking about Sin City, i really would love to see a new Sin City yarn.
It´s been waaaaaaaay too long since anything came from that direction.



Or is this just me? :confused:

[Headhunter]

I disagree. Dark Horse has basically scaled the books down by 1/3 of their size, yet has kept the price tag the same. To me, that just smacks of greediness. If they're going to decrease the size, the least they could do is knock a few bucks off the cover price. That's why I'm hoping to snag copies of A Dame to Kill For and The Big Fat Kill before DH replaces them with the different format.
Wait, so it's a replacement instead of a supplement (like what CrossGen was trying)? So I better buy it soon, or not at all...

[heavysoul]

well, i finally got my replacement copy of A Dame To Kill For... i'm only missing my replacement of The Big Fat Kill now. i refuse to deal with the new format, though. i agree with RW, we need a new yarn.

[Grant]

Talking about Sin City, i really would love to see a new Sin City yarn.
It´s been waaaaaaaay too long since anything came from that direction.



Or is this just me? :confused:

Miller said he's working on a Sin City: 1941 tale. I'm hoping it has Hartigan in it.

[heavysoul]

^that's right. thanks for the reminder.

[VeganVampire]

Miller said he's working on a Sin City: 1941 tale. I'm hoping it has Hartigan in it.
When did he say this? I haven't finished reading all the sin city's out there yet, but when I'm done it would be nice to be greeted by more, any indication of when?

[TheHistorian]

The last I recall of that was in a blurb on a letters page in one of the original issues - so it has been years since the 1941 tale was mentioned... unless someone knows of a more recent comment about it.

[Screwtape]

Damnation! They're scaling the books DOWN? I want 'em BIGGER! Oh well. I heard that they were doing new printings and figured something like that might happen, so I now have all of them except the first one, which I'll just have to read in its new Fun Size format. One of my favorite books in my collection is my Big Fat Kill HC.

Maybe the ink won't rub off the covers on the new editions.

[Rod G]

What puzzles me is the fact that a SIN CITY movie is ACTUALLY made.I thought Miller hated movie producing.

[VeganVampire]

What puzzles me is the fact that a SIN CITY movie is ACTUALLY made.I thought Miller hated movie producing.
Robert Rodriguez convinced Miller to sign for the movie by making a video version of "The Customer is Always Right" John Byrne made mention on his forum that Rodriguez is going nearly frame for frame with the movie.

[VeganVampire]

What puzzles me is the fact that a SIN CITY movie is ACTUALLY made.I thought Miller hated movie producing.
Robert Rodriguez convinced Miller to sign for the movie by making a video version of "The Customer is Always Right" John Byrne made mention on his forum that Rodriguez is going nearly frame for frame with the movie, and I don't think Miller has much to do with the movie itself, he created the comic, and many of the camera angles are based on his, but all of that was done before hand.

[VeganVampire]

What puzzles me is the fact that a SIN CITY movie is ACTUALLY made.I thought Miller hated movie producing.
Robert Rodriguez convinced Miller to sign for the movie by making a video version of "The Customer is Always Right" John Byrne made mention on his forum that according to Miller Rodriguez is going nearly frame for frame with the movie, and I don't think Miller has much to do with the movie itself, he created the comic, and many of the camera angles are based on his, but all of that was done before hand.

[VeganVampire]

Ignore, double post.

[Smuggletrain]

Robert Rodriguez convinced Miller to sign for the movie by making a video version of "The Customer is Always Right" John Byrne made mention on his forum that according to Miller Rodriguez is going nearly frame for frame with the movie, and I don't think Miller has much to do with the movie itself, he created the comic, and many of the camera angles are based on his, but all of that was done before hand.


Actually Miller was on set during most (if not all) of the filming, along with Quentin Tarantino. One of the
insider type shows had a brief interview with them on set last summer.

[Rod G]

Is that a fact?Somebody should mention that fact to Sin City fans before somebody accuses Miller of selling out,if you know what I mean.

[Smuggletrain]

I just finished checking Yahoo for details on this. It turns out that Miller is credited as a Co-director.

Director: Frank Miller (feature debut) and Robert Rodriguez

Director Notes: (6/1/04) Robert Rodriguez is in negotiations with Quentin Tarantino to direct part of the third and final segment of the film. Rodriguez has already made a bold decision to quit the Directors Guild so that 'Sin City' creator Frank Miller could be credited for his comprehensive contributions to the project.

Here's the link:

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&id=1808560209&cf=prev

Ugo is also a good source for clips and interviews about the movie.
The trailer on Yahoo looks more polished. Lots of little details that I hadn't noticed when watching the
trailer on sites mentioned on the boards previously. If the movie is half as exciting as the trailer it should dominate this spring. I'm actually more worried about the hotlist starlets F'ing it up more than anything.

[Amigo]

Damnation! They're scaling the books DOWN? I want 'em BIGGER! Oh well. I heard that they were doing new printings and figured something like that might happen, so I now have all of them except the first one, which I'll just have to read in its new Fun Size format. One of my favorite books in my collection is my Big Fat Kill HC.

Maybe the ink won't rub off the covers on the new editions.

I like the new format - Sin City is a crime novel and this genre looks better in traditional book-format. We produce the German edition and the pages look fantastic in this smaller format! We will upgrade it with hardcover - that's even better ... I say this as a fanboy and not as the publisher ;) The new design is also top-notch - from the guy who designed all the Michael Crichton book-covers and the DC-Merchandising-Artbook.

[Screwtape]

"The genre looks better in traditional book format?" Not sure about that... after all, "Sleeper" is a thriller, but it wouldn't look better as a Tom-Clancy-sized doorstop.

That said, the covers look spectacular - it's Chip Kidd who's doing the book design, right? I really dig his stuff. That "Peanuts" book he did a couple of years ago is one of my prize possessions.

[heavysoul]

I like the new format - Sin City is a crime novel and this genre looks better in traditional book-format. We produce the German edition and the pages look fantastic in this smaller format! We will upgrade it with hardcover - that's even better ... I say this as a fanboy and not as the publisher ;) The new design is also top-notch - from the guy who designed all the Michael Crichton book-covers and the DC-Merchandising-Artbook.While I agree with you on the new covers I'd need to point out, in the US, the single issues were originally printed in standard comic book size. For those of us that saw these books and liked them just fine at the normal size for the first time the downsizing is just that.

[DonC]

The last I recall of that was in a blurb on a letters page in one of the original issues - so it has been years since the 1941 tale was mentioned... unless someone knows of a more recent comment about it.


Miller has said working on the movie has rekindled his desire to do more Sin City stories, but that's all I've read about it. No details on what the story was, or how long it would be.

[heavysoul]

The new Sin City mini-books have arrived. I think Chip Kidd did a brilliant job with the cover designs, but, the shrinking of the book is definitely a letdown for me. Someone in my LCS said, "God forbid the movie feel like they're buying an actual comic book," as a possible reason behind the new size. Art loses a bit of its power when you shrink it, though. I'm interested in fan opinion now that they can compare the two versions.

[heavysoul]

Okay, has anyone noticed the crimes committed against the original tpbs yet? The original tpb covers are not included in the new tpbs, the Sin City logo is replaced by a new one, the paper stock and cropping are a bit off and the overall printing quality is subpar when compared to the originals. When you consider they shrunk the book, these things only add insult to injury. I may be overstating my point, but I think it's valid nonetheless.

[Predator]

Okay, has anyone noticed the crimes committed against the original tpbs yet? The original tpb covers are not included in the new tpbs, the Sin City logo is replaced by a new one, the paper stock and cropping are a bit off and the overall printing quality is subpar when compared to the originals. When you consider they shrunk the book, these things only add insult to injury. I may be overstating my point, but I think it's valid nonetheless.

I haven't seen the new printings yet. It's a shame that they've done such a terrible job with them. Does anyone know if the original versions are still available, or are they being phased out for good?

[VeganVampire]

Phased out for good, though some are still out there, so buy them quick.

[The Xenos]

I gave up looking for an orginal copy of Dame to Kill for. Even my roomate and friends were asking when I was going to get a copy since I got them hooked on the books and that was the alst one I didn't have.

I just read Yellow Bastard last night and it was amazing. I cna see why people often say it's the best one. I still feel like I got some of it's power and testosterone machismo in me. Man, Miller is something.

-Xenos

[VeganVampire]

Loved Yellow Bastard, a Dame to Kill for was alright, check half.com if you haven't already.

[Predator]

I managed to find original copies of the last five trades, and got to read them this last week. Overall it was some great stuff! The last few (Hell and Back, and Family Values) weren't quite as good as the first half (Dame to Kill For, Big Fat Kill, ect) but still good stuff. I hope doing the movie inspires Miller to write more Sin City, because this is an awesome book in so many ways. Highly recommended.

[Perry Holley]

Ran across a Frank Miller/Sin City interview (apologies if this has already been posted):

Part 1 (http://www.comicon.com/thebeat/archives/2005/03/frank_miller_ta.html#more)

Part 2 (http://www.comicon.com/thebeat/archives/2005/03/frank_miller_pt.html#more)

[cognitive77]

Having a few of the old trades and recieving one of the new ones, I can say that I'm sticking with the old trades.

The paper feels cheaper on the new ones, and not quite as heavy.

I'm pretty disappointed.

[Sockburger]

Just read "The Hard Goodbye" with scruffy ol' Marv...
That has to be one of the best books I have ever read...
Any other tme I would be talking out of my A$$, but this is real...

I can relate with Frank's art style because my own is so similiar and im also an all in one writer/artist...

Good Stuff... :D

[bitplayer]

The yahoo movie reviews gave the movie a B average. Ebert gave it an A. A reporter from the seattle post intelligencer gave if an F.

User reviews gives it a B+ so far.

Think Im going to have to see this one rather than wait for rental.

:D

Heh heres a snippet of what ebert says. "This isn't an adaptation of a comic book, it's like a comic book brought to life and pumped with steroids."

Suhweeet!

[RedBaron]

The yahoo movie reviews gave the movie a B average. Ebert gave it an A. A reporter from the seattle post intelligencer gave if an F.

User reviews gives it a B+ so far.

Think Im going to have to see this one rather than wait for rental.

:D

Heh heres a snippet of what ebert says. "This isn't an adaptation of a comic book, it's like a comic book brought to life and pumped with steroids."

Suhweeet!

It's pulling up a 78% fresh rating at www.rottentomatos.com as well