CBR: Cup O' Joe - Nov 5, 2010

[CBR News]

Marvel's own dynamic duo of Tom Brevoort and Axel Alonso are back with CBR, giving a look inside what makes for a perennial hit, some "Chaos War" early looks and the prison moves of Norman Osborn.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29274).

[rogerio]

No Black Widow or Hawkeye & Mockingbird news!:mad:

[Bevbos]

How is Moon Knight going? I kind of checked out of that series a while ago. Specifically, after the Deadpool team-up was immediately followed by a Spider-Man team-up. Is it firing on all cylinders? Anyone got a review?

[DownInAHole]

How is Moon Knight going? I kind of checked out of that series a while ago. Specifically, after the Deadpool team-up was immediately followed by a Spider-Man team-up. Is it firing on all cylinders? Anyone got a review?

I'm not sure if the last Shadowland: Moon Knight issue is out yet or not but after that the book will, presumably, be on hiatus until the first Bendis/Maleev issue is released. If you are looking to get into the book it would probably be best to wait until the relaunch.

[InterwebHero]

No Black Widow or Hawkeye & Mockingbird news!:mad:

Jim McCann interview, up a coupla days ago. Pretty much covers it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29226

[Brannon]

Alonso actually said that he'd but Ultimates up against anything ever published with a superhero in it? Riiiight. That series is not in any way shape or form on the same level as Watchmen, Dark Knight Return's, Lee/Kirby FF, Claremont/Byrne X-Men, Miracleman, etc. Come now, guys.

[theXfactor]

What a crappy Cup O' Joe.

[Brannon]

I wish they could get through a paragraph without the forced comedic banter and the more blatant aggrandizing of some of their current content. Stan Lee these guys ain't. They really need to clone that guy and make his clone write Stan's Soapbox's forever.

I'd prefer it if Ralph Macchio was doing this. I respect his talent, knowledge and personality, not to mention his longevity in the business.

[InterwebHero]

I wish they could get through a paragraph without the forced comedic banter and the more blatant aggrandizing of some of their current content. Stan Lee these guys ain't. They really need to clone that guy and make his clone write Stan's Soapbox's forever.

I'd prefer it if Ralph Macchio was doing this. I respect his talent, knowledge and personality, not to mention his longevity in the business.

I think Axel and Tom both have a lot of talent. And Tom Brevoort must be close in terms of editing longevity. I think they just have toruble balancing info and overspoiling upcoming stories.

[beta-ray]

Still a little unclear on the .1 stuff. Is it all brand new stuff or is it the same issue plus extra content? Or something else?

[Leocomix]

Alonso actually said that he'd but Ultimates up against anything ever published with a superhero in it? Riiiight. That series is not in any way shape or form on the same level as Watchmen, Dark Knight Return's, Lee/Kirby FF, Claremont/Byrne X-Men, Miracleman, etc. Come now, guys.

By the way Lee/Kirby's FF and Lee/Ditko's Spidey have been in continual print since the 60s.
First they'd get reprinted in reprint titles like Marvel Tales, then in the early 80s there were special editions that reprinted classics (Steranko's Fury and Cap, Ditko's Dr Strange, FF Annual #1, Starlin's Warlock and Captain Marvel, etc), in 1987 Marvel Masterworks started. Many Wolfman/Colan Tomb of Dracula were reprinted in the 90s. etc
But Tom and Axel didn't think of these first two as their perennial classics.

[rauj13]

So, am I the only one completely baffeled by the counting for Deadpool? Even if you only count the series titled "Deadpool" it's 103 issues. Counting every book released with "Deadpool" in it's title gives 203. Only counting ongoing series titles "Deadpool" gives 98 (but that doesn't count special issues of those series, and Deadpool Corps would shoot that up to 106). KryptonSite (any relation to the web site?) doesn't seem to know what they're talking about... Hope Alonso doesn't listen. If Deadpool does get an anniversary issue, I hope it's legit (should only take three months to reach 300 anyhow...).

[crossword]

And yet again they find a chance to not mention Alpha Flight. They constantly push the titles that don't need advertising and avoid talking about the ones that need it.

[Hulk_Is]

Ugh, man. Been waiting on this Moon Knight series and it gets Bendis - whose dialogue completely takes me out of his stories. But, I feel like I'm going to buy issue #1 anyways. @#$% me.

Anyway, anyone familiar with Breevoort's editing jobs?

[scribbleMind]

How is Moon Knight going? I kind of checked out of that series a while ago. Specifically, after the Deadpool team-up was immediately followed by a Spider-Man team-up. Is it firing on all cylinders? Anyone got a review?

Shadowland: Moon Knight really pales in comparison to the first arc of Vengeance of Moon Knight. Well, everything after the first arc is pretty much mediocre, although I did like the Secret Avengers team-up issue. Admittedly, I was slightly wary about Bendis writing Moon Knight, but after that last arc there's nothing Bendis can do to make it any worse. There are some good things about the arc, it pretty much answers whether or not Khonshu is real. I wonder if that will be retconned during the new run, but I hope not. You can only go back and fourth for so long before it gets stale.

[jebsib]

Deadpool 'proper' (ie: no initial limited series / spin-off series, etc) would have hit #100 with January's #31. They blew it and obviously forgot.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

I gotta say, I definitely agree that Bendis's best issues have bone done-in-ones. He should write more of them.

[rogerio]

Loved that Braithwaite pages.:smile:

[bcddesign]

The artwork for Dead Avengers looks great. But, Yellowjacket (Rita DeMara) does not have insect-like wings a la The Wasp. She uses Hank Pym's old Yellowjacket costumer and it has the "wings" built in as part of the shoulders. Otherwise, the series looks cool.

[Starro]

It's funny that Alonso mentioned Milligan and Allred's X-Force/X-Statix as a "perennial", given that many of those collections are out of print and going for ridiculous prices on eBay and Amazon Marketplace. They're way overdue for a reprint, and Marvel should seriously consider releasing an omnibus collecting the whole thing.

[dewey412]

Here is some of Bendis script for Moon Knight:

Crook: Who do you think you are?
Moon Knight: I'm Moon Knight.
Crook: You're a Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes....
Crook: Of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're Moon Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're the Knight of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really..
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really...

[DownInAHole]

Here is some of Bendis script for Moon Knight:

Crook: Who do you think you are?
Moon Knight: I'm Moon Knight.
Crook: You're a Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes....
Crook: Of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're Moon Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're the Knight of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really..
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really...

:biggrin:

I think you completely nailed the Bendis dialogue and that is why I'll be passing on this series.

It will be interesting to see if an a-list creative team can make this book a hit. I'm skeptical about whether or not Spider-Woman would have lasted a whole year had the series continued. It was dropping fairly steadily and had not leveled out by the time it ended. In this environment it will be tough even for Bendis and Maleev to keep the book going for 12 issues or more.

[Hulk_Is]

Here is some of Bendis script for Moon Knight:

Crook: Who do you think you are?
Moon Knight: I'm Moon Knight.
Crook: You're a Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes....
Crook: Of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're Moon Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're the Knight of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really..
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really...

God, don't remind me. Ugh.

[Spaced]

3 fan questions & all about ridiculous numbering situations? Is that really the best that CBR can pick out of the submissions to put to them?

[BONGFORCETRAUMA]

Here is some of Bendis script for Moon Knight:

Crook: Who do you think you are?
Moon Knight: I'm Moon Knight.
Crook: You're a Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes....
Crook: Of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're Moon Knight?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: You're the Knight of the Moon?
Moon Knight: Yes...
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really..
Crook: Really?
Moon Knight: Really...

The fact that people are seeing this as accurate really makes them look really, really dumb.

Really.

[dewey412]

The fact that people are seeing this as accurate really makes them look really, really dumb.

Really.

Really?

Bendis did great work on Daredevil and Alias...But, in my opinion, he has a horrible time with the super hero books...The epic super books, if you will.....

Oh, and I loved his Ultimate Spidey book for a time...I'm just saying, when I think of his dialog, I think of this...And, honestly, it isn't fair to him...

Really.

[Hulk_Is]

The fact that people are seeing this as accurate really makes them look really, really dumb.

Really.

Well, then call me dumb@$$ superior because that is close enough for a real BMB comparison. Bravo. :cool:

What? He doesn't write like that?

I loved his first two issues of Siege, at least, because it was completely devoid of his characteristic - to coin a term I picked up from another poster - "ping pong" dialougue. But, I feel like the new Moon Knight series is going to be rife with it. I don't know about you, sir, but it takes me completely of his books when he does it - which means most of the time.

I'm seriously curious if you and like-minded posters are not seeing the same thing I'm seeing. :confused:

I mean, Avengers takes the cake. Show me where this is not the case.

[realguy]

The poor man's comedy of those two is really getting on my nerves.:mad:

[dewey412]

The poor man's comedy of those two is really getting on my nerves.:mad:

Agreed...I just think it's insulting to the fans on here to act like they do!

[Brian from Canada]

Well, then call me dumb@$$ superior because that is close enough for a real BMB comparison. Bravo. :cool:

What? He doesn't write like that?

I loved his first two issues of Siege, at least, because it was completely devoid of his characteristic - to coin a term I picked up from another poster - "ping pong" dialogue.

Bendis rose to prominence partly because of that dialogue, and he explained back in his Image days that he studied how people actually spoke in order to get the right rhythm in his writing. His Daredevil and Alias books really underlined that too, since the conversations are ones you might imagine on film or in reality. And then, for Ultimate Spider-Man, he began to hang out at the mall to get the dialogue between teenagers right so it would sound authentic.

Where you're having a problem with it — where I find a problem with it too often — is the fact that he has a hard time balancing conversations with more than two people, or knowing when to skip the dialogues completely and stick with the action. It's also a fault of Tom Breevort, Joe Quesada and Bendis' other editors that they can't get him to plan out an action sequence properly because it builds right and then just collapses into confusion every single time.

[Brian from Canada]

The poor man's comedy of those two is really getting on my nerves. :mad:
Agreed...I just think it's insulting to the fans on here to act like they do!

I don't think it's insulting. I just don't think it's realistic or funny. It's like they're hamming it up for the audience that thinks it's funny without realizing that the laugh track sits in another studio without an "on" switch to make it appear as if we dig it. :evilsmile:

[Brian from Canada]

What a crappy Cup O' Joe.

I partially disagree. Dropping the useless Halloween stuff (it's been over for more than a week now, folks!), you do get a much better idea of Marvel editorial's mindset regarding the writers than you usually get.

By which I mean that, first off, they say that the single issue is being relished by writers who are often looking to the decompressed stories of Bendis as the best example when in fact Bendis is strongest at writing one-shots. Which begs the questions: are the previous examples of one/two stories like those pioneered by Roy Thomas at Marvel no longer valid examples? can Marvel editorial capitalize on that interest in done-in-ones? why did it take an editorial sales campaign to get them going, then? and, most importantly, why can't you make some of these decompressed writers see that?

Pretty interesting questions to ask, just as Breevort's comment that too many writers are aiming at old timers who like comics like him — is this where the mythical twelve year-old comes in? The first time reader? Because my top question right now is whether or not the big story at the beginning is a proven track record given that Hollywood is trying to backtrack against serialized stories until audiences have gotten to know and love the characters, like they did on Dollhouse?

[That Dollhouse was cancelled says more about its own weaknesses than the move to introduce Echo first.]

Plus, I'd really like the question posed to both — and Joe Q as well — is this .1 initiative indicative that Marvel needs to go back to laying those introductory issues at the beginning of a story to set its context, like the saga books, and why can't they be used as a trade enticement as well?

Finally, I found it hysterical that Marvel uses its strong sales on regular trade paperbacks to counter the celebratedness of Watchmen and Dark Knight, which both comment on the genre itself as well as tell a story, or Y and Sandman which go outside of the genre and present a different use of the serialized narrative. Why not just say that's where CrossGen is supposed to go?

But as for the questions, see my next post, which reads…:

[Brian from Canada]

3 fan questions & all about ridiculous numbering situations? Is that really the best that CBR can pick out of the submissions to put to them?

That's what bothered me most. Is this supposed to be a Q&A with fans, or an interview without the fans? Because the fans should have more presence if it is the former, and no questions if it is the latter.

Also, if this is "Cup O'Joe," shouldn't it be Joe alone? Why not change the title of the article to "Jokes With T&A" or "Givin' Some T&A" or something corny like that?

[Brannon]

Bendis rose to prominence partly because of that dialogue, and he explained back in his Image days that he studied how people actually spoke in order to get the right rhythm in his writing. His Daredevil and Alias books really underlined that too, since the conversations are ones you might imagine on film or in reality. And then, for Ultimate Spider-Man, he began to hang out at the mall to get the dialogue between teenagers right so it would sound authentic.

Where you're having a problem with it — where I find a problem with it too often — is the fact that he has a hard time balancing conversations with more than two people, or knowing when to skip the dialogues completely and stick with the action. It's also a fault of Tom Breevort, Joe Quesada and Bendis' other editors that they can't get him to plan out an action sequence properly because it builds right and then just collapses into confusion every single time.

"Realistic" dialog is the most overrated aspect of modern comics. Part of the fun of older comics was the bombastic speeches that nobody, even then, would ever utter in real life. Now I do think that it was good to modernize things a bit, but overly "realistic" dialog has always come off as smug, self-satisfied and boring to me.

[Hulk_Is]

Bendis rose to prominence partly because of that dialogue, and he explained back in his Image days that he studied how people actually spoke in order to get the right rhythm in his writing. His Daredevil and Alias books really underlined that too, since the conversations are ones you might imagine on film or in reality. And then, for Ultimate Spider-Man, he began to hang out at the mall to get the dialogue between teenagers right so it would sound authentic.

I still don't like it to a great degree.


Where you're having a problem with it — where I find a problem with it too often — is the fact that he has a hard time balancing conversations with more than two people, or knowing when to skip the dialogues completely and stick with the action. It's also a fault of Tom Breevort, Joe Quesada and Bendis' other editors that they can't get him to plan out an action sequence properly because it builds right and then just collapses into confusion every single time.

No. I have a problem with it when anyone talks for any reason whatsoever. I remember when I never actually heard Bendis talk himself, but last week here at CBR they posted two videos of him having an interview (one at a Con and the other on the CBR yacht) and I expected him to talk like the characters he writes for. Imagine my suprise when he spoke nothing like the characters he writes for. I expected BMB to say something short, then have the interviewer pose a question, then Bendis to say something quickly again, then the interviewer poses the next question, etc; But, no. It was a real dialougue between to different personalities. Not what he usually writes where everyone sounds the same - and sometimes in doing so that ruins some of the characters he using.

Believe me when I say he's got great ideas for superheroes and there are some works of his I've collected, but most of the time his dialogue chokes me. I want to get into his Avengers books so badly (well, not now with the inclusion of Rulk :evilangry: and JRJr's art) because of the scope of what he comes up with, but once again that famous dialogue he uses lifts me outta my seat and into the floor it's so disturbing. :frown:

And as far as his balance of action and dialogue goes, for me he nailed in the opening of Siege. It was head-first action, but all dialogue was hashed out perfectly imo. So, he can write, but his reliance on "real world" dialogue is just not my thing, but apparently it has it's many fans.

[KryptonSite]

So, am I the only one completely baffeled by the counting for Deadpool? Even if you only count the series titled "Deadpool" it's 103 issues. Counting every book released with "Deadpool" in it's title gives 203. Only counting ongoing series titles "Deadpool" gives 98 (but that doesn't count special issues of those series, and Deadpool Corps would shoot that up to 106). KryptonSite (any relation to the web site?) doesn't seem to know what they're talking about... Hope Alonso doesn't listen. If Deadpool does get an anniversary issue, I hope it's legit (should only take three months to reach 300 anyhow...).

Yes, there's a relationship to the website - it's my site. ;)

I was adding Deadpool regular series. 69 for Vol. 1 + 31 for Vol. 2 = 100.

I purposely left miniseries out, and kept Cable & Deadpool off although technically, that could fly too.

I'm not crazy, I swear :)