"Ultimate" Superman - Birthright vs Earth One

[Mr. Holmes]

Please only vote if you read both stories, especially Earth One, and don't vote based on the uninformed news reports with the Twilight comparisons.

Now that Earth One is out, which story better updates and modernizes Superman?

[clownprince01]

I'll pick Earth One up tomorrow. Pass judgment on it in a couple of days. But I'm surprised you didn't list Secret Origin.

[Jimmy Bond]

It's hard to say. With Birthright, I read each installment over the year, and it wasn't until after I read the whole story together and let it all sink that i realized how great it was.

Here we get the whole thing at once, so I have to let it sink first.

I noticed Earth One is very close to the George Reeves Superman. Of course more modern, but that parallel struck me with Clark's character, his interaction with Ma, and his meeting with Perry White. And of course, the absence of Lex Luthor. I can really tell JMS is a fan of Adventures of Superman.

Even though I'm more biased toward Christopher Reeve Superman, I think it's cool they're finally drawing influence from somewhere else for once.

[Jer]

Please only vote if you read both stories, especially Earth One, and don't vote based on the uninformed news reports with the Twilight comparisons.

Now that Earth One is out, which story better updates and modernizes Superman?

I think I prefer Earth One. Planets just don't blow up you know. :cool:

[dupersuper]

I liked both, but then I also liked Man of Steel, For All Seasons and Action #1...even Secret Origins was ok. All of them satisfy my main requirement for a Superman origin; I hear the Williams theme in my head when he first flies in costume.

[clownprince01]

I voted for Birthright. It was just more a a cohesive piece with better charaterisation and a tighter story.

Having said that, I was pleasantly surprised by Earth One. The main reason being, I've never read anything of JMS and looking at Grounded, I couldn't understand why he was such a popular author. I did notice some similarities between the this and Birthright, namely the creation of the suit, the invasion, THAT photo of Superman taken by Olsen.

Anyhow, here's a short list of pros and cons for me.

Pros
Good artwork.
Distances itself from the Donner films.
Destruction of Krypton was also quite good.
Very subtle redesign of the suit.
It's selling ridiculously well. Out of stock on Amazon and I managed to get the last copy at my local comic book store.

Cons
Moved along a bit too quickly for my liking. Reminded me somewhat of Last Son. I like stories that are more slow-burn and take their time to build up.
Doesn't completely work as a standalone piece with numerous loose threads setting up for sequels.
Tyrell looked like the 5th band member of Kiss.

[Mr. Holmes]

JMS's interpretation of Clark and Superman is fantastic. He clearly gets the essence of the character, and introduced him in a very fresh, yet compelling and faithful manner.

The only problem I had was the plot. Nothing necessarily bad about the alien invasion, but I think it could have been a different story. But I did like the nonlinear structure here.

I think Birthright has a bigger scope, and the story was a bit more layered. But they're both great. Birthright really felt like a cinematical experience, whereas Earth One was more of say a television film.

[Xistel]

they are different universes, hence different supermans. I like the possibiities in earth one

[MillerFan]

Birthright is a really great Superman story. I think Birthright is the ultimate Superman origin story for me, because it is as honest and great as the character whose story it tells. It is a beautiful symphony which always delights you whenever you read it. I confess that I was not a big Superman fan until I read stories like Red Son and Birthright which really made me feel how great and awesome Superman is.

[Ramage]

Just bought Birthright this weekend after reading Earth One ealier in the week and clamoring for MORE good Superman stories.

I liked Birthright, but is no where near as good as Earth One. First of all Davis blows Yu away and Birthright seems to wander a bit. And i didn't like Waid's Luthor characterization.

I guess I am just stuck in that Byrne paradigm and I like it.

[Mainline]

In terms of a modern rationalized Superman, Birthright is about pitch perfect for me up until issue 6 where Luthor's astrobiology theory comes to light and the Smallville connection is tenuously made. There are some solid moments in there afterwards but Lex dominates issues 7-9 and not particularly well or convincingly. The action and plan from 10-12 also has some great moments and beats but is similarly over-the-top and doesn't have the veracity of the first half of the series. That said, there's much more room to breath and a more complete story is told with strong characterization and motivation rationales for Superman and at least an arc for Luthor. The supporting icons of Metropolis, the Kents, Lois, Jimmy, Perry, The Planet, etc. are all done competently to well (I'd say only Smallville suffers a bit, mostly because of Lex). They all have their own voices and personalities that are compatible with the mythos.

The art is definitely challenging. To me, it more than does the job with incredibly dynamic art that relies a lot on giving merely the shape or impression than trying to rigidly render everything, however a loose style (which got looser as the series progressed) combined with his particular stylization of faces could be an obstacle for some. However, I love the design work and his ability to unify the colors of the suit and of the historical Kryptonians... his designs made me believe that Superman's suit, ship, and crest all made sense. The storytelling and layouts combined with Waid's writing are beautifully in sync, rarely is the action confused if at all. If you divorce Birthright from continuity- where much of the controversy about its release at the arose from- it would be my go to recommendation for new readers looking to understand Superman's motivations. A better value for your money too with roughly twice the pages for the same price.

Superman Earth One is far more concise, presents less challenging art, and is more a modernized fable than a modern style rationalization of the mythos. Whereas Birthright tries to explore Clark's motivations as a character, Earth One is much more a modern retelling of Christ's Gethsemane or Moses' Burning Bush. A reluctant chosen one and sole savior given a clear purpose and calling which he wishes he could resist but which he ultimately will not.

With the smaller page count you really feel the "wasted" pages like the decompressed train ride, landlady conversation, and Area 51 exposition. And while characterizations of "emo" are inaccurate and overblown, there's a certain joylessness to much of the opening act. Whereas in Birthright, Clark was wrestling with lions, marveling at unlocking his Kryptonian history, and awed by a charismatic civil rights leader, Earth One Clark was doing equally "fun" things- showboating in football, science, baseball, architecture, finance- but all with an stoic face and pursed lips. In fact, we don't get an earnest smile until well after a hundred pages have passed.

The enemy and invasion, tacked on Kryptonian "terrorist" ties, and overall battle didn't work for me. I liked the choreography of the superior hull defeating the other ship but other than that the action felt rather rote and not particularly well realized, laid out, or dynamic... more like just random punching scenes. As a rationale it also presents some holes or addresses some things unnecessarily (like why Krypton was never space faring), but I cut that a break as the storytelling is more fable-based than rationale based. The strongest character, by far, is Jimmy who steals the show... Lois- while also admirable- just reads like a lesser version of Jimmy in this story.

Clark, by contrast, doesn't quite feel fully realized or human... his altruism just turns on like a light-switch (rather than being a slow growing process born out of world travels with incredible figures of peace and activism as seen in Birthright)... up until he dons his costume, Clark's usage of powers is almost entirely self-interested (mugging, interviews, flying, his apartment fire, etc). Clark's costume and superhero persona is his dad's dying wish, the conflict is brought about by others (rather than Superman confronting and then publicly snubbing Lex as in Birthright), his job is acquired mostly by graft, he doesn't pursue his heritage until after donning the suit, and he doesn't really act until completely backed into a corner... this is a very passive Clark. His rationale boils down to, "No one else can do it so you must." which crosses wires with the "Being who you were meant to be is rewarding." message... Clark doesn't so much go through a character arc (from the guy who throws away the Planet job application to a crack reporter) as he has a character with strength, will, integrity, determination, etc. imposed upon him.

But all that doesn't matter as much because this story is more a fable... Gethsemane... than a tightly told story... which makes the seemingly unnecessary icon tweaks a little maddening. Why did the Planet have to be down and out? Lois and Jimmy could have had just as much integrity, Clark just as much disdain for the job, etc... why was the Planet's story arc important enough to "steal" precious Superman pages? Why establish that rather than the beginnings of the Lois romance? To make up for this, the story tries to wrap up a lot of its nagging questions and dangling loose ends in the interview at the end, but that just seems to aggravate the problem for me...

In terms of art, Davis has a style which is much more conventional and commercial than Yu's. Many of the panels and pages are rendered spectacularly. At the same time, however, a lot of the art suffers from the stiffness of photorealsim and the uncomfortable feeling of the uncanny valley... where realistic rendering just heightens the issues with any inaccurate aspects like proportions, positions, etc. I don't feel the storytelling is as strong from panel to panel and some of the layouts seem mechanical, but it was never confusing per se, just not innovative or ideal.

Despite my criticisms, that core fable- accepting and enjoying one's destined responsibilities and identity- is timeless and durable, and the execution is still quite good and always at least competent.

For $10, it is still worth checking out. Maybe it will speak to you more than it spoke to me or maybe it will appeal greatly to a new reader and if so, that's terrific, and one of the goals of this format. If the sales are any indication, a more straight forward modernization in an affordable package may be just what new readers are clamoring for.

[Duy]

Not that I'm going to really chime in, because (1) I haven't (and won't) read Earth One, and (2) I barely remember Birthright, only that it bored the living bejeezus out of me. But I think it's funny that neogod said "Please only vote if you read both stories, especially Earth One." How does one read a story especially in comparison with another? It just made me chuckle.

[MattTriano]

In terms of a modern rationalized Superman, Birthright is about pitch perfect for me up until issue 6 where Luthor's astrobiology theory comes to light and the Smallville connection is tenuously made. There are some solid moments in there afterwards but Lex dominates issues 7-9 and not particularly well or convincingly. The action and plan from 10-12 also has some great moments and beats but is similarly over-the-top and doesn't have the veracity of the first half of the series. That said, there's much more room to breath and a more complete story is told with strong characterization and motivation rationales for Superman and at least an arc for Luthor. The supporting icons of Metropolis, the Kents, Lois, Jimmy, Perry, The Planet, etc. are all done competently to well (I'd say only Smallville suffers a bit, mostly because of Lex). They all have their own voices and personalities that are compatible with the mythos.

The art is definitely challenging. To me, it more than does the job with incredibly dynamic art that relies a lot on giving merely the shape or impression than trying to rigidly render everything, however a loose style (which got looser as the series progressed) combined with his particular stylization of faces could be an obstacle for some. However, I love the design work and his ability to unify the colors of the suit and of the historical Kryptonians... his designs made me believe that Superman's suit, ship, and crest all made sense. The storytelling and layouts combined with Waid's writing are beautifully in sync, rarely is the action confused if at all. If you divorce Birthright from continuity- where much of the controversy about its release at the arose from- it would be my go to recommendation for new readers looking to understand Superman's motivations. A better value for your money too with roughly twice the pages for the same price.

Superman Earth One is far more concise, presents less challenging art, and is more a modernized fable than a modern style rationalization of the mythos. Whereas Birthright tries to explore Clark's motivations as a character, Earth One is much more a modern retelling of Christ's Gethsemane or Moses' Burning Bush. A reluctant chosen one and sole savior given a clear purpose and calling which he wishes he could resist but which he ultimately will not.

With the smaller page count you really feel the "wasted" pages like the decompressed train ride, landlady conversation, and Area 51 exposition. And while characterizations of "emo" are inaccurate and overblown, there's a certain joylessness to much of the opening act. Whereas in Birthright, Clark was wrestling with lions, marveling at unlocking his Kryptonian history, and awed by a charismatic civil rights leader, Earth One Clark was doing equally "fun" things- showboating in football, science, baseball, architecture, finance- but all with an stoic face and pursed lips. In fact, we don't get an earnest smile until well after a hundred pages have passed.

The enemy and invasion, tacked on Kryptonian "terrorist" ties, and overall battle didn't work for me. I liked the choreography of the superior hull defeating the other ship but other than that the action felt rather rote and not particularly well realized, laid out, or dynamic... more like just random punching scenes. As a rationale it also presents some holes or addresses some things unnecessarily (like why Krypton was never space faring), but I cut that a break as the storytelling is more fable-based than rationale based. The strongest character, by far, is Jimmy who steals the show... Lois- while also admirable- just reads like a lesser version of Jimmy in this story.

Clark, by contrast, doesn't quite feel fully realized or human... his altruism just turns on like a light-switch (rather than being a slow growing process born out of world travels with incredible figures of peace and activism as seen in Birthright)... up until he dons his costume, Clark's usage of powers is almost entirely self-interested (mugging, interviews, flying, his apartment fire, etc). Clark's costume and superhero persona is his dad's dying wish, the conflict is brought about by others (rather than Superman confronting and then publicly snubbing Lex as in Birthright), his job is acquired mostly by graft, he doesn't pursue his heritage until after donning the suit, and he doesn't really act until completely backed into a corner... this is a very passive Clark. His rationale boils down to, "No one else can do it so you must." which crosses wires with the "Being who you were meant to be is rewarding." message... Clark doesn't so much go through a character arc (from the guy who throws away the Planet job application to a crack reporter) as he has a character with strength, will, integrity, determination, etc. imposed upon him.

But all that doesn't matter as much because this story is more a fable... Gethsemane... than a tightly told story... which makes the seemingly unnecessary icon tweaks a little maddening. Why did the Planet have to be down and out? Lois and Jimmy could have had just as much integrity, Clark just as much disdain for the job, etc... why was the Planet's story arc important enough to "steal" precious Superman pages? Why establish that rather than the beginnings of the Lois romance? To make up for this, the story tries to wrap up a lot of its nagging questions and dangling loose ends in the interview at the end, but that just seems to aggravate the problem for me...

In terms of art, Davis has a style which is much more conventional and commercial than Yu's. Many of the panels and pages are rendered spectacularly. At the same time, however, a lot of the art suffers from the stiffness of photorealsim and the uncomfortable feeling of the uncanny valley... where realistic rendering just heightens the issues with any inaccurate aspects like proportions, positions, etc. I don't feel the storytelling is as strong from panel to panel and some of the layouts seem mechanical, but it was never confusing per se, just not innovative or ideal.

Despite my criticisms, that core fable- accepting and enjoying one's destined responsibilities and identity- is timeless and durable, and the execution is still quite good and always at least competent.

For $10, it is still worth checking out. Maybe it will speak to you more than it spoke to me or maybe it will appeal greatly to a new reader and if so, that's terrific, and one of the goals of this format. If the sales are any indication, a more straight forward modernization in an affordable package may be just what new readers are clamoring for.

I greatly enjoyed this, and agree on multiple points

I think the issue with treating EO like a 'fable' is that fables are often metaphoric--symbolism, double-meanings, circular motifs in narrative (if not, to a certain extent, logic)--this sort of depth doesn't exist in EO, and it isn't being marketed that way to my knowledge

So while creator intent for the work is of primary concern, I can't go so far as to write off aspects of an incongruent narrative with major cogency faults because it 'feels' like the kind of story you might find in Chaucer

I found Clark joyless, plot holes galore regarding the set up to dual identity, a meandering plotline affecting vague predictions of doom all the while setting up information without the essential who what and how, as well as a one-dimensional threat similar to a Republic serial villain

In short, Superman: Earth One felt hollow in almost every way; to me, JMS does not understand Superman or what makes him a lasting, compelling character

[Mainline]

I guess I am just stuck in that Byrne paradigm and I like it.It's interesting that you prefer Earth One then because, to me, what defines the Byrne story is: 1) Kryptonian "Utopia"; 2) Sufficiency of the Kents; 3) Clark is the active persona.

In terms of Krypton, in the Byrne rendition, their world is "perfect" scientifically and devoid of emotional strife, but beset by a natural disaster. In the JMS story, Krypton is in a barbaric cycle of war that sets an otherwise advanced race backwards technologically and that war ultimately leads to their destruction. Birthright, in my opinion, would seem closer because although a tumultuous history for Krypton is revealed, that history is what turns them xenophobic and isolationist and dispassionate, much like the Byrne model.

In terms of the sufficiency of the Kents, Byrne had Clark turn into Superman completely under their influence alone. It was not until later, after already adopting the Superman persona, did he discover his heritage (and even before that he was the angel in Martha's scrapbook clippings). In exalting the parents he also saw fit to have Pa Kent remain alive and able to influence and advise Clark into adulthood. JMS killed off Pa, had Clark not quite disobey so much put off the wishes of the Kents, and did not become Superman until his ship fragment downloaded into his mind. Birthright, does ramp up the influence of Krypton, undoubtedly, making it the source of Clark's costumes, his travels and search for identity, etc... so superficially, you could say the Kents are denigrated, but they're also more clear, powerful, and distinct actors in Clark's life than in Earth One... Ma being a supportive plugged-in proud hippie and Pa being a hard-nosed, ex-military, stiff communicator who sooner take a sledge to Clark's ship than talk. If Byrne had as many pages to characterize the Kents I imagine they'd be closer to Waid's version than JMS's where the parents speak almost with one voice (barring the "S" disagreement).

Finally, in terms of passivity, I already discuss in Earth One how Clark is really passive above. In Byrne's book, Clark is the angel before becoming Superman. He already knew and accepted his calling he just needed the Kents' help in finding a means to execute (the costume / persona). Waid's world wise Clark is similar, proving himself as a reporter and globally conscious person who regularly saved people exposing his powers and needing to move on, even before fashioning the costume. Following the model of his father, Pa, Waid's Clark left the farm at 18 determined to be a self-made man. He ultimately decides to be Superman and acts as Superman before he ever hears the word "Krypton" uttered. Earth One is about the plan already being set before him but not wanting to accept it until his planet was held at gunpoint.

I'm not saying Birthright is Man of Steel by any means, but I think it hits the major themes are more compatible as illustrated in those two than Man of Steel and Earth One.

[Mainline]

I think the issue with treating EO like a 'fable' is that fables are often metaphoric--symbolism, double-meanings, circular motifs in narrative (if not, to a certain extent, logic)--this sort of depth doesn't exist in EO, and it isn't being marketed that way to my knowledge

...

In short, Superman: Earth One felt hollow in almost every way; to me, JMS does not understand Superman or what makes him a lasting, compelling character1. Fables aren't really that deep. 2. JMS is targeting a market and a generation that resents responsibility and the weight of the world being laid upon them- but secretly believes they could handle it, would flourish doing so, and wants the chance to prove themselves even if they're afraid of it.

This book speaks to that and the Superman mythos is durable enough to be molded to fit it particularly if it's a non-canonical story. If there is anything lasting about the Superman character- a being from another planet, an immigrant adopted- it's a level of tolerance for the different views and tastes of others without resorting to condemnation or scorn.

[MattTriano]

It's interesting that you prefer Earth One then because, to me, what defines the Byrne story is: 1) Kryptonian "Utopia"; 2) Sufficiency of the Kents; 3) Clark is the active persona.

In terms of Krypton, in the Byrne rendition, their world is "perfect" scientifically and devoid of emotional strife, but beset by a natural disaster. In the JMS story, Krypton is in a barbaric cycle of war that sets an otherwise advanced race backwards technologically and that war ultimately leads to their destruction. Birthright, in my opinion, would seem closer because although a tumultuous history for Krypton is revealed, that history is what turns them xenophobic and isolationist and dispassionate, much like the Byrne model.

In terms of the sufficiency of the Kents, Byrne had Clark turn into Superman completely under their influence alone. It was not until later, after already adopting the Superman persona, did he discover his heritage (and even before that he was the angel in Martha's scrapbook clippings). In exalting the parents he also saw fit to have Pa Kent remain alive and able to influence and advise Clark into adulthood. JMS killed off Pa, had Clark not quite disobey so much put off the wishes of the Kents, and did not become Superman until his ship fragment downloaded into his mind. Birthright, does ramp up the influence of Krypton, undoubtedly, making it the source of Clark's costumes, his travels and search for identity, etc... so superficially, you could say the Kents are denigrated, but they're also more clear, powerful, and distinct actors in Clark's life than in Earth One... Ma being a supportive plugged-in proud hippie and Pa being a hard-nosed, ex-military, stiff communicator who sooner take a sledge to Clark's ship than talk. If Byrne had as many pages to characterize the Kents I imagine they'd be closer to Waid's version than JMS's where the parents speak almost with one voice (barring the "S" disagreement).

Finally, in terms of passivity, I already discuss in Earth One how Clark is really passive above. In Byrne's book, Clark is the angel before becoming Superman. He already knew and accepted his calling he just needed the Kents' help in finding a means to execute (the costume / persona). Waid's world wise Clark is similar, proving himself as a reporter and globally conscious person who regularly saved people exposing his powers and needing to move on, even before fashioning the costume. Following the model of his father, Pa, Waid's Clark left the farm at 18 determined to be a self-made man. He ultimately decides to be Superman and acts as Superman before he ever hears the word "Krypton" uttered. Earth One is about the plan already being set before him but not wanting to accept it until his planet was held at gunpoint.

I'm not saying Birthright is Man of Steel by any means, but I think it hits the major themes are more compatible as illustrated in those two than Man of Steel and Earth One.

Yes, precisely--well put

What I find fascinating is that while I prefer Birthright over Earth One ANY day, I don't think either one of them have the cogency of Man of Steel--and I don't particularly think Man of Steel is a great story!

I'm of the opinion that the symbol on his chest works best as an alien relic, a reminder--to that end, I think finding that symbol and working it into an outfit is more engaging than saying that the character chooses to call himself Superman, and chucks an S on his chest for measure (humble, that aint!)

I also think that Pa Kent works both alive and dead, although if he's dead I've got to go with Superman: The Movie--the way he looses Jonathan and the crystal calls to him, introducing him shortly to his real father and the Fortress and all of it--in essence, one dies and the other pops up to complete the guidance needed for Clark to become Superman

I like the idea that Clark needs guidance from home and from the stars, only then is he informed enough to choose a decidedly unconventional lifestyle

The set up in Birthright speaks to me greatly, the worldly reporter learning all he can about people, finding his place--and ultimately being informed by a global perspective

Byrne posits a character that is wholly human, alien only in name--I think this disregards some of the magic of the character, and makes some of his choices, particularly the road to costumed adventuring, a little thin for my palette (especially without any model to work from, any inspiration)

Birthright tells a great Clark Kent story, one that I buy--Earth One is hollow in my estimation, on almost every front

[clownprince01]

In regards to Leinil Yu vs Shane Davis, I have to say I think Yu is far superior.

From a strictly technical point of view, Davis' abilities may be better. But Yu utilises the page and conjures up images far greater than Davis managed to. I can't say I was very taken by any of the full page splashes in Earth One. There were an abundance of splashes and panels in Birthright I loved.

Although I do understand people not liking the unconventional approach Yu took in that it seems closer to manga than traditional Western comics. But once you get past that, Yu is easily the better in my opinion.

[Daybreak_st]

Ok i'll chime in on this.

Greatly enjoyed Earth One, thought it was a fantastic re-telling of the Superman origin with a modern twist. It did a few things particularly well:

Explored his other options:
I thought this was pretty cool, having his abilities he literally could've done anything so seeing that brought out was nice along with his super intellect. Things that haven't really been addressed in many re-tellings of his origin.

Kryptonian Technology:
JMS knocked this one out of the park. Information actually written on the atoms of the ship is just such a great SciFi concept. I loved his reimagining of kryptonian tech. It's one of those things that i think has been down played since the Donner Films, everything being from crystals and such is just boring and done to death. I loved JMS' fresh take on this, and seeing clark pilot his ship was equally cool along with his placement of it at the north pole and his conversation with it. Just great stuff altogether.

Also i liked that this was not focused on Lex Luthor. Lex is a great character so don't get me wrong but this does prove that you can tell a solid Superman story without his inclusion. Thanks for that JMS, hoping the new film follows suit. Not that i don't like lex, it's just nice to see a different approach tried.

Also some things that i've never been a fan of were presented in a way i could accept. Like his parents making the suit and his dad coming up with the name Superman. I've always prefered the \S/ being kryptonian but for whatever reason i didn't mind how they handled it here and it went back to it's golden age roots.

I definetly think it's a story that anyone with a casual interests in Superman can pick up and enjoy. Only if you're closed minded or only accept one interpretation of the character would you really take issue with this. It may not be for everyone but it's well done and fun. Art was great too.

Now to compare it to other origins i'm still gonna go with Birthright. Simply b/c as another poster said, Birthright is a great clark kent story. I loved his characterization, he was proactive, he had fun with his abilites, great interaction with his parents, it provided the most insight into his journalism career choice, just fantastic well thought out character development. I like his age being 27, i loved the kryptonian book he'd been trying to decipher, i like the origin of symbol along with his creation of the suit. My only faults with that story are the lex in smallville angle them him acting like he never lived there and the fake alien invasion. I don't have big issues with it and it doesn't stop me from enjoying the story i just don't see the point of having lex grow up in smallville if they're are no real repercussions from it.

I thought Smallville has done the best job with young lex and clark being friends but they dropped the ball with trying to explain how their future relationship would work and to this day it hasn't been addressed, so it has it's issues.

Man of Steel by Bryne was smart in how it covered around 5 years in 6 issues that bridged the gap very nicely in firmly planting Superman in the then current DCU. It was smart way to go.

Now as far as actually handling the character i have mixed feelings. Making Krypton cold and dark, the whole clone issues, with the one woman using one of her clones to marry her son b/c no other woman was good enough, and that causing the war in the first place was just awful. same with Lex Luthor seducing Perry's wife before they were married. Same as Martha being married but unhappy before marrying Jonathan. Just random changes that felt somewhat soap opera ish. NO they weren't in the six issue reboot but in the World of KRypton, Metropolis and Smallville. Also hated the manhunters brainwashing all the children of smallville and controlling lana for the majority of her life, even being responsible for killing her parents, just a convoluted mess, and people actually complain about the tv show Smallville :redface:

Alot of it wasn't very good. I enjoyed Cat Grant and the new take on Clark Kent but he still seemed very 2d and not necessarily that interesting for someone who is suppose to be Superman. Birthright gave him the appropriate global view of a character of his power and importance. Earth One was a fine update that was enjoyable but his hestitancy while understanble in the context of the comic i didn't like the idea that he already had teh costume and everything just didn't want to put it on, seemed kind of convient for him to have it. Prefered teh suit's origin in Birthright. My thoughts.

[MattTriano]

In regards to Leinil Yu vs Shane Davis, I have to say I think Yu is far superior.

From a strictly technical point of view, Davis' abilities may be better. But Yu utilises the page and conjures up images far greater than Davis managed to. I can't say I was very taken by any of the full page splashes in Earth One. There were an abundance of splashes and panels in Birthright I loved.

Although I do understand people not liking the unconventional approach Yu took in that it seems closer to manga than traditional Western comics. But once you get past that, Yu is easily the better in my opinion.

From a strictly technical point of view, Shane Davis is SHIT

not *the* shit, just not effective in almost every way

He puts a lot of hatching and lines everywhere to fool you into thinking that he's thinking--to fool you into glazing over his stiffness, his lazy setups and anatomical hesitance (matched by an ego like you read about, to compensate)

His storytelling is at times impenetrable, and working from full script with a writer who knows comics (what can be in a panel and how it works) means he's either incompetent, lazy, or doesn't much care

None of the imagery in Earth One felt compelling--the awe-some stuff was awesome, the big moments felt small, and he was constantly off-model an everybody (even the titular character--half the time he looked like Jared Leto, sometimes Brandon Routh, and there were a few Chris Reeves in there as well)--being off model, BTW, but 'realistic' means that one is oftentimes a slave to one's reference, in this case shots of actors and actresses

His confidence and fortitude make up for a lack of fundamentals, and the guy can probably draw regardless--all that adds to professionalism, and I'm betting he's CRAZY on-time, maybe close friends with an editor or two

Otherwise, I can't understand why DC would allow Shane-fucking-Davis to define Superman in this new way (but then again, I feel like his art matched the story--both seemed to aspire to something greater than they are, and relatively speaking, felt short of that mark)

I don't mean to speak in absolutes or give an impression that I disavow the work he puts in or deny him the right to live off that work--I am ever satisfied that someone takes the time to make entertainment for me, and that they get to do what they love for pay (which is all anyone can ask)

But really

SHANE DAVIS

wow

[STC]

Birthright really felt like a cinematical experience, whereas Earth One was more of say a television film.

Actually I felt the opposite. I felt Birthright was a multi episode TV series and Earth One felt like the cinematic experience.

[MattTriano]

Actually I felt the opposite. I felt Birthright was a multi episode TV series and Earth One felt like the cinematic experience.

If Earth One was the new Superman film (and it won't be, BTW--that's already written for those wanting an adaptation), I would quite literally walk out

It would be clear to me that the filmmakers don't care about logic in a story, three dimensional characters, engaging pacing, or depth

If it were a TV series, that would be the pilot and I would watch the second episode simply to find out where that plotline lead--and unless somebody woke up and it was clear that the production was making an effort then, I wouldn't watch it again

The same happened with Smallville round season 3--1 and 2 were an interesting elseworlds experience, seemed like it could have gone the Superman route or diverged, kind of straddled that line, and that was great because it was popular and new and young Clark could be a slightly different experience than Superman

Then Lois came, and Perry White, and Lex and Clark became close friends and Lana got superpowers and yeah, thanks but no thanks

Birthright took its time, 12 issues--but it could be a long movie (3 hours)--each issue takes its time on a few scenes, there's dialogue extensive to the point at hand and it takes the space allotted

I think Birthright could have easily been 6 issues, and I might have enjoyed it more if a bit of the Africa stuff, all the conversations, were condensed so that it didn't seem as if we were going to see those people and that place again--if it were a film, ten minutes would be Clark in Africa, a few lines about heritage and masks, Clark saves the day the man dies the woman sees him fly they agree that it's mutually beneficial not to espose him and he leaves with the things he'd learned (any more development of the characters a film audience would grow to engage in them as much as Clark, and might feel cheated if they never saw them again, or cheated of time after the fact)

[Daybreak_st]

From a strictly technical point of view, Shane Davis is SHIT

not *the* shit, just not effective in almost every way

He puts a lot of hatching and lines everywhere to fool you into thinking that he's thinking--to fool you into glazing over his stiffness, his lazy setups and anatomical hesitance (matched by an ego like you read about, to compensate)

His storytelling is at times impenetrable, and working from full script with a writer who knows comics (what can be in a panel and how it works) means he's either incompetent, lazy, or doesn't much care

None of the imagery in Earth One felt compelling--the awe-some stuff was awesome, the big moments felt small, and he was constantly off-model an everybody (even the titular character--half the time he looked like Jared Leto, sometimes Brandon Routh, and there were a few Chris Reeves in there as well)--being off model, BTW, but 'realistic' means that one is oftentimes a slave to one's reference, in this case shots of actors and actresses

His confidence and fortitude make up for a lack of fundamentals, and the guy can probably draw regardless--all that adds to professionalism, and I'm betting he's CRAZY on-time, maybe close friends with an editor or two

Otherwise, I can't understand why DC would allow Shane-fucking-Davis to define Superman in this new way (but then again, I feel like his art matched the story--both seemed to aspire to something greater than they are, and relatively speaking, felt short of that mark)

I don't mean to speak in absolutes or give an impression that I disavow the work he puts in or deny him the right to live off that work--I am ever satisfied that someone takes the time to make entertainment for me, and that they get to do what they love for pay (which is all anyone can ask)

But really

SHANE DAVIS

wow


Wow you are really harsh :confused: I thought the art was really good, he may not be the best artist out there but he knows what he's doing, his characters were nicely reimagined especially Jim Olsen. The building and architecture were nicely rendered. I loved his designs for the technology of krypton and the military base. His originality was nice. The alien invasion felt epic. As an artist i can tell you completing a comic is no small task, and doing it with the efficiency and grace of Mr. Davis while still reimagining such an Iconic character is no small task. To say his art "fails" is just closed minded and unnecessarily harsh.

It's comments like these that keep the professionals off the message boards. Being given a serious critique by a fellow artist or peer who you respect can help you improve your art but reading overly harsh complaints by people who're just looking for something to complain about serves no purpose. The guy does his best and plenty of people who picked up this book and others he's illustrated enjoy his work. And respect his efforts and talent. Being mean spirited just b/c you need to "express your opinion" is just unnecessary. I'd like to see more pros on these boards but there's no way many would ever venture into sites like this when they'll be the vicitm of baseless attacks by disgruntled fans. That's just wrong on so many levels.

[MattTriano]

Wow you are really harsh :confused: I thought the art was really good, he may not be the best artist out there but he knows what he's doing, his characters were nicely reimagined especially Jim Olsen. The building and architecture were nicely rendered. I loved his designs for the technology of krypton and the military base. His originality was nice. The alien invasion felt epic. As an artist i can tell you completing a comic is no small task, and doing it with the efficiency and grace of Mr. Davis while still reimagining such an Iconic character is no small task. To say his art "fails" is just closed minded and unnecessarily harsh.

It's comments like these that keep the professionals off the message boards. Being given a serious critique by a fellow artist or peer who you respect can help you improve your art but reading overly harsh complaints by people who're just looking for something to complain about serves no purpose. The guy does his best and plenty of people who picked up this book and others he's illustrated enjoy his work. And respect his efforts and talent. Being mean spirited just b/c you need to "express your opinion" is just unnecessary. I'd like to see more pros on these boards but there's no way many would ever venture into sites like this when they'll be the vicitm of baseless attacks by disgruntled fans. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Hey man I don't disagree it was harsh, and quite honestly I didn't mean it to be--kinda got away from me at the onset, with a hook line to garner attention

However if you separate the first few sentences from the rest, you'll find an informed view that takes into account both the artist's intent as well a forceful yet objective assessment of strengths and weaknesses

As we both said in different terms, making comics is terribly labor intensive and quite difficult--I know that more than you may think

Shane Davis' work is observably stiff, is often off-model, and his storytelling is sometimes difficult to ascertain based on his shot choices and juxtaposition of elements--he depicts movement ineffectively comparative to, again, what I'm sure his intentions are for the work

This is certainly my opinion, and certainly doesn't account for the way that the editors who've hired him feel about the product, and him as a person

As I said, I'm appreciative of his efforts and the fact that while Earth One didn't speak to me, I can enjoy it as a push to work for something--even if, relatively speaking, that something didn't gel for me as I'd have liked it to

Having said that, I'm not disgruntled nor is my critique baseless, and the prospect of pros coming on these boards isn't the pipe-dream you might think

[Libaax]

For me who dont follow Superman comics but have read some. I found Earth One much more interesting than Birthright that was just another Origin Story.

EO felt very different and it read like how a contemporary Superman film should be written like.

I enjoyed the younger version,his somewhat different look,the different world. Only the villain was so so. Quallity art by Davis too.

[Daybreak_st]

Hey man I don't disagree it was harsh, and quite honestly I didn't mean it to be--kinda got away from me at the onset, with a hook line to garner attention

However if you separate the first few sentences from the rest, you'll find an informed view that takes into account both the artist's intent as well a forceful yet objective assessment of strengths and weaknesses

As we both said in different terms, making comics is terribly labor intensive and quite difficult--I know that more than you may think

Shane Davis' work is observably stiff, is often off-model, and his storytelling is sometimes difficult to ascertain based on his shot choices and juxtaposition of elements--he depicts movement ineffectively comparative to, again, what I'm sure his intentions are for the work

This is certainly my opinion, and certainly doesn't account for the way that the editors who've hired him feel about the product, and him as a person

As I said, I'm appreciative of his efforts and the fact that while Earth One didn't speak to me, I can enjoy it as a push to work for something--even if, relatively speaking, that something didn't gel for me as I'd have liked it to

Having said that, I'm not disgruntled nor is my critique baseless, and the prospect of pros coming on these boards isn't the pipe-dream you might think

You make some valid points i still found your critique unnecessarily harsh for the work of Mr. Davis. specifically in Earth One. I've seen plenty of his work and while some of his characters do come off as stiff, i'd say his work is much better than another artistss witha similar problem, Ethan Van Sciever. Ethan's work for me fits your description much better than Davis.

To call crosshatching unnescessary also seems odd as how do you measure how much is necessary? I didn't feel it was in excess but i realize that's subjective. I prefer more linear styles but at the same time i can appreciate artwork of various types.

[MattTriano]

You make some valid points i still found your critique unnecessarily harsh for the work of Mr. Davis. specifically in Earth One. I've seen plenty of his work and while some of his characters do come off as stiff, i'd say his work is much better than another artistss witha similar problem, Ethan Van Sciever. Ethan's work for me fits your description much better than Davis.

To call crosshatching unnescessary also seems odd as how do you measure how much is necessary? I didn't feel it was in excess but i realize that's subjective. I prefer more linear styles but at the same time i can appreciate artwork of various types.

I don't disagree at all that Ethan Van Sciver is wooden and his compositions are often confusing, which leads to ineffective stortytelling

I'd say the one thing Ethan has than Shane doesn't is a proclivity toward depicting light and its effects; Ethan inks himself, and that in part allows him to finish his thought in a way that may be inky, layered, or that might be indistinct with even tight pencils

Ethan plays with light sources, he likes long shadows and one can usually pick out where the light's coming from in a given panel--his main influence is Brian Bolland, and I think there's a definite connection between the way Bolland and Van Sciver use their quills (although like most guys who are directly influenced by one artist, the work tends to lose something in the translation--like a photocopy, in Van Sciver's case he lost Bolland's anatomy and fluidity--Rob Liefeld took much of his surface detail from Art Adams, for instance, and it's plain to see what happened there :)

Shane Davis doesn't consider light in his work, it's all vaguely double-lit without definitive indication (and the colorist isn't helping either, although I thought Sandra Hope did a fantastic job on EO)--that's what I meant with the crosshatching bit

And although I can't possibly say for certain I'd guess that by the way Davis crosshatches, by the crackle in his line, and by some of his shot choices that perhaps he learned to draw comics by reading comics (Jim Lee, perhaps--or Marc Silvestri in his transition period from mid-90's 'open' to his current Turner-inspired d'inked look)

Look guy I'm not talking about leaving flaming shit on his doorstep or ambushing him, Van Sciver, Liefeld, or anyone else you and I think aren't the best and brightest in comics today--I was harsh, it was sensationalist for the sake of it, and I'd do it different next time

Cheers

[Daybreak_st]

I don't disagree at all that Ethan Van Sciver is wooden and his compositions are often confusing, which leads to ineffective stortytelling

I'd say the one thing Ethan has than Shane doesn't is a proclivity toward depicting light and its effects; Ethan inks himself, and that in part allows him to finish his thought in a way that may be inky, layered, or that might be indistinct with even tight pencils

Ethan plays with light sources, he likes long shadows and one can usually pick out where the light's coming from in a given panel--his main influence is Brian Bolland, and I think there's a definite connection between the way Bolland and Van Sciver use their quills (although like most guys who are directly influenced by one artist, the work tends to lose something in the translation--like a photocopy, in Van Sciver's case he lost Bolland's anatomy and fluidity--Rob Liefeld took much of his surface detail from Art Adams, for instance, and it's plain to see what happened there :)

Shane Davis doesn't consider light in his work, it's all vaguely double-lit without definitive indication (and the colorist isn't helping either, although I thought Sandra Hope did a fantastic job on EO)--that's what I meant with the crosshatching bit

And although I can't possibly say for certain I'd guess that by the way Davis crosshatches, by the crackle in his line, and by some of his shot choices that perhaps he learned to draw comics by reading comics (Jim Lee, perhaps--or Marc Silvestri in his transition period from mid-90's 'open' to his current Turner-inspired d'inked look)

Look guy I'm not talking about leaving flaming shit on his doorstep or ambushing him, Van Sciver, Liefeld, or anyone else you and I think aren't the best and brightest in comics today--I was harsh, it was sensationalist for the sake of it, and I'd do it different next time

Cheers

Yeah i see your point, you have a good eye for detail and a nice analysis for their work. Well said.

[Ramage]

I liked Triano's review of Shane Davis art. He firmly stated why he didn't like it.

However, I look at Earth One and then Birthright. I prefer the art on Earth One. Yu's pencils don't look realistic to me...or phony realistic that most comic book artists aspire to. I've seen Yu in other setting that I do like. And I don't hate Birthright (I do hate his Secret Invasion stuff though.

Davis' stuff is just flashier to me and catches my eye better. I get a little more excited by it. And I actually think his storytelling is superior to Yu. But that is opnion.

[clownprince01]

However, I look at Earth One and then Birthright. I prefer the art on Earth One. Yu's pencils don't look realistic to me...or phony realistic that most comic book artists aspire to. I've seen Yu in other setting that I do like. And I don't hate Birthright (I do hate his Secret Invasion stuff though.

Davis' stuff is just flashier to me and catches my eye better. I get a little more excited by it. And I actually think his storytelling is superior to Yu. But that is opnion.
I'll expand on what I said before. Yu's art wasn't suppose to look realistic. Not even remotely. It is more of a manga style of art. But where he succeeds is that he uses the page and does far greater compositions that Davis. Davis' full page splashes were boring. His depiction of the invasion felt oddly pedestrian while that full page splash of Superman after Lois and Jimmy save him just felt very average. This is a shame because from a technical perspective, Davis is actually quite good. And I don't actually mind the cross hatching.

Yu's art felt epic (the invasion), emotive (Clark in the air with his glasses in one hand and his cape in the other) and at times, just pleasant to look at (Clark flying through Africa).

But sill, art aside, Birthright benefits from being a far superior story. One that really built up and earned it's epic third act, and not merely throw it in there so suddenly before we even began to really like Clark.

[Mr. Holmes]

One frequent complaint I hear about Birthright is the art, and I will never understand that. It's dynamic and fluid (and the coloring helps).

I liked Shane Davis's art in Earth One, but it was too stiff. But I think Matt's comments are a bit much.

[Duy]

One frequent complaint I hear about Birthright is the art, and I will never understand that. It's dynamic and fluid (and the coloring helps).

I was a sizable Yu fan in his early days, then around the time of Birthright, his art took a dive for me. Points for him though, since he's a Filipino.



I liked Shane Davis's art in Earth One, but it was too stiff. But I think Matt's comments are a bit much.

I see nothing special in Davis's art that he should be put on a project as big as this. I don't think it's eye-grabbing, I don't think it's technically astounding, and I don't think it's all that unique either. I could name ten artists working in DC right now off the top of my head that I would rather have seen draw this.

[Daybreak_st]

I was a sizable Yu fan in his early days, then around the time of Birthright, his art took a dive for me. Points for him though, since he's a Filipino.



I see nothing special in Davis's art that he should be put on a project as big as this. I don't think it's eye-grabbing, I don't think it's technically astounding, and I don't think it's all that unique either. I could name ten artists working in DC right now off the top of my head that I would rather have seen draw this.

Ok so name them. I'm not challenging you i just would like to hear who else you think would've done a good job. My personal favorite would've been Ivan Reis. The man is the best comic artist currently working for DC imho.

[greatmetropolitan]

Having now read them both, I gotta say that Earth One isn't a patch on Birthright. It had some nice ideas, and more importantly some nice departures from the norm, but ultimately it just didn't reach the frankly awesome heights of Birthright.

There was some nice tension before Clark finally put on the costume, enough to make me John Williams in my head when he finally suited up, but I think that was the only time.

I compare that to Jimmy's photo moment in Birthright or "like hell", his first appearance in costume...Birthright had me humming the tune ever other issue.

That's just the action scenes though. More importantly, I cared a whole lot more about Clark Kent in Birthright than I did about Clark Kent in Earth One. This is probably because we got to see him interact with more people in Birthright. He had long conversations with is dad and his mom, and we got the lex backstory, too. Earth One's Clark was just a little too distant and seemed entirely too unsure about where his morals were pulling him.

Favourite Earth One moment - Perry White telling Clark that his writing was nothing special.

Favourite Birthright moment - just too many to choose from.

Winner: Birthright.

[Ramage]

Some mention that Birthright has more time to tell a story. But to me it just feels too drawn out. Same story could be told 2/3 of the time. Earth One just seemed more cinematic and Birthright just seemed sometimes like it had to touch on this myth or this character.

And Yu's manga (using Clown's description) just doesn't work as well. His faces just don't seem right to me.

This probably boils down to taste (of course it does) and i am a traditionalist who likes clarity and more "realistic" comicy art. Give me Curt Swan and Neal Adams. Are they still working in comics?

[It's Superman]

Superman: Birthright for me.

[bat39]

Going by the poll question...BOTH are equally attempts to create an 'Ultimate Superman'.

Having said that, Birthright is the better story.

Birthright to my mind is an excellent amalgamation of the Silver Age mythos and the Byrne revamp. It keeps the classic elements like the rocketship, the indestructible costume, Smallville and the friendship with Lex Luthor, Krypton being a utopian wonderland etc. but also incorporates the stuff which Byrne did best in HIS reboot, namely the Kents and their role in shaping Superman, Lex Luthor as the mogul who 'rules' Metropolis etc. And there was the whole rationale behind the 'S' symbol being a symbol of hope which worked wonders IMO.

Birthright did a great job opening up the story during Clark's travels in Africa. Rather than Clark receiving all his motivation from the Kents, or from a hologram of Jor-El, he actually travels the world he seeks to protect and learns about the kind of role he needs to play. Batman Begins followed a similar narrative technique of beginning in media res during Bruce's journey, and it works here as well as it would later work in that film.

Earth One was a good story, but I think at points it was simply trying too hard to be different...whereas Birthright took what came before and refreshed it without showering radical changes in the fan's faces!

That said, IMO, I feel Grant Morrison's latest retelling has surpassed BOTH Birthright and Earth One easily...

[Last Son]

Please only vote if you read both stories, especially Earth One, and don't vote based on the uninformed news reports with the Twilight comparisons.

Now that Earth One is out, which story better updates and modernizes Superman?

Birthright felt more.. full.. and eventful, and Superman felt and looked more like Superman to me. And I like that he didn't want for the impending destruction of Earth to debut.

[BBally]

If Earth One was the new Superman film (and it won't be, BTW--that's already written for those wanting an adaptation), I would quite literally walk out

It still would've made a better Superman film than Superman Returns

[Terrifan2]

Been a while since I have read both but I put in for a tie. I enjoyed the different takes on Superman and thought they were both well done.

[manofsteel1979]

BIRTHRIGHT for sure. EARTH ONE is okay, but didn't blow me away. Dodgy art on the last issue or two and the slightly hackneyed ending aside, I still hold it in high regard. It accomplished in my view what the DCnU reboot has attempted to do, but in a more effective way. It gave the mythos and origins a much needed facelift that incorporates the best of the changes of the last 25 years with a bit of the past, all with a contemporary twist that feels fresh and "today" without pointless stunts and changes (like Kryptonian ceremonial armor). It would have made a grand starting point for not only Superman, but a new DCU as well. Yet DC wussed out and attempted to graft it upon the then existing continuity, which has led to all the reboots since because of the clusterfluck that occurred. Gotta love DiDio!!!

[Desaad]

Frankly I don't think either was wholly successful.

Birthright had some great character work on Clark Kent, and I really enjoyed the Pre-Metropolis stuff. His time in Africa, for instance? Wonderful. I could have done with a whole mini series based around that concept, and it has always been one of the great under explored periods of Superman's 'origin' (I know Dixon had a thing, but it was quite mediocre).

The art was great. I love the Yu of that era, much superior to what he was doing in the heavily inked/darkened days at Marvel (though he's back on form now).

That said, there were a few elements that were starkly silly to anyone who wasn't steeped in the mythology. The whole "Lex pretends not to know Clark Kent" made no sense to me at the time, newer to the Superman Universe as I was. I understand now that it was an attempt to reconcile various 'meetings' they had had, but it seemed absurd then and it still seems absurd now. For another, Waid is absolutely ATROCIOUS at anything approaching villains or the 'conflict' part of his comics, and I think that showed here. The threat was unremarkable and not credible. I wasn't excited by it. I wasn't awed by it. It was TOO down to earth -- just one big hoax, and some kryptonite? Really? Lets get our imagination going!

Earth One had other issues. I don't know, it was all fine but...again, no real creativity, no real craft. Even the villain I thought was pretty lame. There were a few 'fun' moments, with Clark proving that he could quite literally do anything he wanted to do, but nothing struck home for me emotionally. And that really surprised me at the time, because previous to this release I've always seen JMS as a very solid writing, and extremely good at emotional manipulation. You look at his Brave and the Bold series alone and he managed to engagement and make me care in one issue, every time (except, I think, for the Atom issue). And he's had so many great works of the universe - Midnight Nation, Rising Stars, Supreme Power, Bullet Points, etc. But this one was pretty vapid.

So Birthright was better, but neither of them are great, nor is the Geoff Johns "Secret Origin". Thus far the 'ultimate' origin has been All Star Superman, and I'm loving what we're getting in Action Comics as well. Those have been the best. Sprinkle in some of Lindelof's "Life Support", the ending of "Red Son", and a few other tidbits, and you've got yourself a complete package.

[Last Son]

All-Star wasn't an origin exactly, it was more of an ending.. unless you count that quick little recap at the start "desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple".

[Desaad]

All-Star wasn't an origin exactly, it was more of an ending.. unless you count that quick little recap at the start "desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple".

I do, along with issue 6, which was every bit the 'origin' that the first few issues of Birthright or the majority of Earth One were, IMHO.