CBR: Tilting at Windmills - Oct 14, 2010

[CBR News]

Brian Hibbs weighs in on the recent price rollbacks announced by Marvel and DC Comics while also delving deep into the issue of shipping schedules, accurate solicitation information and more.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28899).

[LUNI_TUNZ]

Goddamn, people bitched about the prices, they roll them back, and peple are still bitching?


a flagship book like Superman shouldn't ever be late. Ever. Retailers depend on having twelve salable issues of Superman (or any other core monthly periodical title, for that matter) a year, shipping on their original shipdate. Anything less than 100% compliance on that means the publisher isn't doing their single most important job.

well, that's obviously never gonna happen. ever.

These things happen.

[EMeadow]

Two comments about the spot on article Brian:

The Batman: The Return one shot was always meant to come out after the 8 ROBW ones.

And the reason the 4 ROBW one shots came out the same time this week was Cliff Richards had snuck in the original art a dirty word that DC didn't catch until the last minute causing them to delay the release to correct it.

[Brian Garside]

Well done Mr Hibbs, only you could take an overall positive like an across the board price cut, and chicken little it into "ohhh nooooo, stores are going to go out of business!!!".

I submit to you that stores hanging on the fourty cent profit margin from 3.99-2.99 weren't going to make it anyway, and if they can't turn those saved dollars into new sales then they don't DESERVE to stay in business.

[rpurtl]

Price points and timing of them aside, you don't have to like Brian or his past opinions to realize he is calling out publishers on something we as fans should be absolutely sick of. I have been collecting for over 30 years and I am so sick of the state of things now, I ponder quitting everyday. I can't stand the delays in stories. It makes me drop titles and never go back. I can find other stuff to spend my money on and to read instead of waiting on something that is late. It is just amazing to me that we as fans just keep buying poor quality and late titles when they finally get around to publishing them. Ultimates/Siege/Civil War/Return of Bruce Wayne are tentpole moments for publishers that have no business being delayed. Whatever happened to starting work on stuff with enough lead time to give yourselves plenty of cushion for problems when they come up. DC/Marvel should stop soliciting anything until they have at least half of a mini-series in the bag already and should be 6 months ahead at all times on monthly titles. Why is it so easy for monthly magazines to publish on time like clockwork when they have to deal with a ton more complications in getting something to printers on time? There are dozens of artists/authors/contributors working on your average monthly magazine like Men's Health while your average comic book has about 6-8 people doing most of the work on it. Yet rarely are there delays in the magazine industry? Can you imagine the drop in subcriptions if a magaine was perpetually two months late or like in the case of some Kevin Smith works or Lee/Miller works, just never ship.

[LewisH]

There is nothing either company is doing that makes me want to return to my old weekly buying pattern. With the top selling books now selling under 100K, you would think they would take a harder look at some of the issues that Mr. Hibbs is talking about.

Unfortunately, both companies are flush at the moment with movie money. It will take a few more flops and the exit of Hollywood cash before we see any real reform.

[ScotsScribbler]

I've always dreamed of opening a comic book store and you can bet I won't be stocking Marvel and DC comic books when I do.

[ColonelLee]

Good overview of the business problems comics are currently undergoing .. Brian is simply telling it how it is from a retailers point of view. If you are not a retailer you might not relate.

As a fan .. the many problems are why I am out of DC and MARVEL.. after decades of being a strong customer. I admit that the price increase was the kick that got me out. Don't know if the price decrease will get me back in. I was already dissatisfied. Due to the problems Brian addresses and others that has to do with content I can't care about.

Mainly though, I have found content I can care about from all the small publishers. For example, would I drop a Kirkman book to pick up a $2.99 DC or MARVEL?

Nope.

[KET]

Goddamn, people bitched about the prices, they roll them back, and people are still bitching?

It wasn't a price rollback as much as it was a price shift. Do the math sometime.




well, that's obviously never gonna happen. ever.

These things happen.

They didn't happen so frequently before, so you're wrong. The publishers are making 'these things happen' by looking the other way instead of 'minding the store'.

[jmacleodpc19]

I agree with what Brian is talking about. He mentions that one problem has been fixed (pricing), but the other two need to be addressed. Specifically the lateness of certain books.

If a book is running too late, I drop it. I can't tell you the last time I finished a Brian Hitch series. I refuse to support these publishers that don't know how to plan and solicit a series.

As for content, whenever I picked up a $3.99 book and it wasn't that good, I felt ripped off and I dropped the book. I'm a little more willing to deal with a sub-par issue of a $2.99 series, as long as it has a good track record.

I'm down to very few series these days. Hopefully Marvel & DC can fix these problems and entice me to buy more books.

[goof]

With prices being that high the back issues of new books are even marked up ridiculously. $6 for a number one issue that I missed is too much for me. I'll wait for the trades.

[Brian Hibbs]

Goddamn, people bitched about the prices, they roll them back, and peple are still bitching?

Who is bitching? I'm merely stating that as a matter of pure timing, doing it at the beginning of the first quarter is going to have some unintended consequences. That doesn't mean "don't do it".




well, that's obviously never gonna happen. ever.


Why? That's how comics operated for the first 50-ish years of their existence. Longer maybe.

If you are an editor and you hire a creative team member with a KNOWN and LONG-STANDING problem with lateness, you either 1) work far enough ahead that when they get late you still have options, or 2) you put them on a mini-series or some other project that doesn't utterly depend on actually hitting your deadlines because it is separate from the ongoing monthlies.

That's just common sense.

-B

[Brian Hibbs]

And the reason the 4 ROBW one shots came out the same time this week was Cliff Richards had snuck in the original art a dirty word that DC didn't catch until the last minute causing them to delay the release to correct it.

"Snuck"? Rich Johnston reported on that weeks ago -- it doesn't take that long to photoshop out the background.

And, even if it does, at that point someone needs to make the decision to delay the release of the other books so you're not shipping 4 of them in week #1. It would have been a lot more sensible to, say, ship 2-3-3, than 4-2-2.

-B

[Nawid A.]

The dollar drop affected relatively few DC titles. Any store that runs into problems from a price drop likely isn't a very good one.

I believe Morrison is the root of these delays. He had quite the workload. A extra sized mini, a bunch of side Bat stories (Return, 700-702), and Batman and Robin to write. And he had to launch Batman Inc in addition to finishing Joe the Barbarian and whatever else he's doing (Multiversity?).

It's not quite Bendis' workload though, so I'm guessing nobody saw this coming, hence the rushed Jeanty issue which in retrospect, totally could have been a gorgeous Stewart book. Sometimes it happens.

[MNM]

I've always dreamed of opening a comic book store and you can bet I won't be stocking Marvel and DC comic books when I do.

That shop will stay open long then...

[LUNI_TUNZ]

Right, I forgot I posted in here.

OK, by bitching, I mean that at the pricing issue, the way the column was worded, it felt like what was being said was. "it wasn't done fast enough", and something else I don't remember right now.

Personally, I think Marvel's going about it better by not dropping all their books at the rip, and starting slow, because in case that it's not profitable enough, and they have to raise that extra dollar again, then people will really kick off bitch-fits.

I think stating that by waiting for January will cause some stores to close is being a tad-bit dystopic, and chances are they were on the verge of closing anways.

And quality of content is ttly opinion based. and I refuse to get into it. (There's enough of that elsewhere on the boards)

Also, tardy publishing seems to have become a part of the business, it sucks, I hate it. But sometimes it seems artists are late, wrters are late. I don't necessarily know the behind-the-scenes of the late books in these days, but I'm fairly sure noone's sitting in their, twirling their comically long mustaches and purposefully delaying their books saying "Yes, I've made more people wait for my book, aren't I teh evil?"

If JMS's statement for why he fell behind is correct (not that I'd imply he's lying about having bronchitis-related health problems) should he be made to only work on One-shots and limited series (which is what I believe you replied along the lines of to me)

I'll give you Comic Crash. Which is what I've started calling things like your example of the Bruce Wayne Returns/Road Home books. Of course, I guess they figure it'd be better than pushing them back. meh.

[coreybean]

It's amazing that superhero comic fans take such abuse from Marvel & DC. What if a show like Mad Men or Glee aired episodes weeks late, out of order with, plots changed from the preview ads & fill-in actors despite who's listed in the opening credits?

[Kevin Street]

Why is it so easy for monthly magazines to publish on time like clockwork when they have to deal with a ton more complications in getting something to printers on time? There are dozens of artists/authors/contributors working on your average monthly magazine like Men's Health while your average comic book has about 6-8 people doing most of the work on it. Yet rarely are there delays in the magazine industry? Can you imagine the drop in subcriptions if a magaine was perpetually two months late or like in the case of some Kevin Smith works or Lee/Miller works, just never ship.

The answer to that simple: comic books are defined now by talent, while monthly magazines are still defined by content. You don't buy Men's Health because there's an article in this month's issue by a writer you really like - you buy it because you're interested in Men's Health. But we all buy comics now for the creative teams working on them, and that makes it tough to enforce discipline on the creators. In the (admittedly bad and exploitative) old days, the fans would buy Superman or Avengers no matter who wrote and drew it, so the publishers could force those creators to work to schedule. If they missed too many deadlines, they were removed and new creators were assigned to the comic.

In the old days the publishers had far too much power, and artists and writers were terribly exploited, typically working for years and years with little to show for it at the end of their careers. Today the creators have the leverage to turn in the best product they can whenever they can finish it, but this leads to an industry of infrequent and unpredictable release schedules like Hibbs describes, which is bad for everyone over the long term. It would be nice if the industry could find some happy middle between the extremes where creators were treated with respect, but still had to produce on time.

[LUNI_TUNZ]

It's amazing that superhero comic fans take such abuse from Marvel & DC. What if a show like Mad Men or Glee aired episodes weeks late, out of order with, plots changed from the preview ads & fill-in actors despite who's listed in the opening credits?

Funny you should say this, often times shows may get pre-empted by some sort of game, not to mention when networks randomly change when the show air-time airs last minute. FOX is notorious for this. Futurama, and Family Guy were victims of this.


a very popular anime series (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya) scthick is that it's episodes are aired out of production order (far as I know this was not by design), there's disputes over which way is better. Yes, some people actually like watching this show out of order. And while it's episodic, there's actual continuity between episodes. Not to mention the dreaded Endless Eight arc, which literally aired the same episode (with slight alterations) eight times in a row, for eight weeks straight in it's second season. And while this turned some people off, there are people who actually frickin liked it.

So, superhero comic fans aren't the only ones willing to take abuse.

[Torsten Adair]

Given the "fusterclucks"... I wonder if the easiest solution is for stores to avoid ordering the single issues, and just wait for the trades?

Trade paperbacks are usually announced six months in advance of publication, so there are very few "late" titles.

Since the pages have all been produced and printed in the single issues, there's no delay caused by illness, workload, or talent.

And... if there is a fustercluck in the storytelling, like we saw in Final Crisis with major scenes taking place in other series, then the publisher can correct that problem by including those issues in the collected edition.

Of course, once digital downloads become the primary distribution channel for single issues, then publication date becomes secondary. A publisher can just send out emails to those who read the previous issue, or just publish a list of "this week's issues". Since pre-orders aren't a concern, publication dates can be fluid.

[Paul McEnery]

The dollar drop affected relatively few DC titles. Any store that runs into problems from a price drop likely isn't a very good one.

I believe Morrison is the root of these delays. He had quite the workload. A extra sized mini, a bunch of side Bat stories (Return, 700-702), and Batman and Robin to write. And he had to launch Batman Inc in addition to finishing Joe the Barbarian and whatever else he's doing (Multiversity?).

It's not quite Bendis' workload though, so I'm guessing nobody saw this coming, hence the rushed Jeanty issue which in retrospect, totally could have been a gorgeous Stewart book. Sometimes it happens.

I don't know why you don't think Grant hadn't already scripted these stories well in advance, because that's usually the way he works.

[uthor]

Of course, once digital downloads become the primary distribution channel for single issues, then publication date becomes secondary. A publisher can just send out emails to those who read the previous issue, or just publish a list of "this week's issues". Since pre-orders aren't a concern, publication dates can be fluid.

This is the reason I like ordering books online. I have a subscription set up and the books get to me when they're released. I don't stress over it being a week late or not because I don't have to pay attention to it and don't notice it. It also helps me mentally that I get, on average, a shipment every two weeks and it takes a week to get to me. I'm reading issues up to 3-4 weeks "late" usually and delays in publishing tend to be absorbed into the wait between shipments.