Do you miss Mr Sinister?

[witness]

Do you miss Mr Sinister? Do you wish he were alive, still causing mayhem for the X-men? Or, are you glad he's dead? Or, are you completely indifferent about him?



yes, I felt like doing a lazy thread for a change...

[darknessatnoon]

I've been sick of him since he accidentally released the Legacy Virus. Also, he should have been powerless by Messiah Complex as it was revealed during Colossus - Bloodline that he was losing his powers.

[tlp0708]

I want him to return and brutally kill those crappy Fraction x-villains.

[Majinoaw]

I miss him. I miss the ol pointy teeth Sinister that looked like an evil colossus

[MartinRedmond]

I like the CC version best and I was kinda glad he was dead and put to rest during Inferno, tbh. If Mike Carey brings him back, I'll eat it all up, otherwise, no.

[witness]

I've been sick of him since he accidentally released the Legacy Virus. Also, he should have been powerless by Messiah Complex as it was revealed during Colossus - Bloodline that he was losing his powers.

Of all the X-villains, Sinister could do without his powers the most. His scheming is what makes him brilliant, not his powers.

[timbox]

No but I miss Miss Sinister.

[witness]

No but I miss Miss Sinister.

I've been waiting for someone to say that.

[Majinoaw]

Of all the X-villains, Sinister could do without his powers the most. His scheming is what makes him brilliant, not his powers.

Yeah, but when the man tore into the Dark Riders in X-Men 23... oooh what beauty...

[AcesX1X]

he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Who cares about him and his Robin-the Boy Wonder booties?

Bring back Lush-ous Claudine!

[witness]

Yeah, but when the man tore into the Dark Riders in X-Men 23... oooh what beauty...

Yeah, that was nice. Point still stands though, that he's less reliant on powers than most villains


he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry.

A fine actor great at playing villain's. Would be good as Sinister. (though I pray they never use Sinister in a movie)

[Regino]

They need to retcon the last five to ten years of Sinister stories and I will accept him back.

[tlp0708]

he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry.

All the more reason why he's great!


He's a sweet transexual, transvestite

[AcesX1X]

sorry, let me rephrase: i think he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry from the rocky horror picture show. i'm almost 99% sure that's where CC got his inspiration for sinister from.

[Cayman]

I don't like anything about the character.

[mcgaffer]

Yep, i want him to return and start his own Age of Sinister storyline.

[tlp0708]

sorry, let me rephrase: i think he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry from the rocky horror picture show. i'm almost 99% sure that's where CC got his inspiration for sinister from.

I knew what you meant.


Franken-furter <3!

[witness]

sorry, let me rephrase: i think he's creepy and reminds me of tim curry from the rocky horror picture show. i'm almost 99% sure that's where CC got his inspiration for sinister from.

It wouldn't surprise me.

[spiderwire]

I'm still wondering how Mystique got the drop on him with an armbar! Oh well, maybe he'll return with his Nasty Boys one day.

[witness]

I'm still wondering how Mystique got the drop on him with an armbar! Oh well, maybe he'll return with his Nasty Boys one day.

I hope so, I really want the Nasty Boys back as well.

[Majinoaw]

I'm still wondering how Mystique got the drop on him with an armbar! Oh well, maybe he'll return with his Nasty Boys one day.

his death was lame. He deserved a better send off.

[Majinoaw]

I hope so, I really want the Nasty Boys back as well.

Let's have these guys in a limited series - the Search for Nathaniel Essex- we can also bring back Miss Sinister in the mix too...


Holy crap witness- I smell a pitch.....!!!!!!

[witness]

his death was lame. He deserved a better send off.

It really was lame, it has to be said


Let's have these guys in a limited series - the Search for Nathaniel Essex- we can also bring back Miss Sinister in the mix too...


Holy crap witness- I smell a pitch.....!!!!!!

That sounds like an excellent idea to me.There should be more LS based around villains.

[Regino]

Let's have these guys in a limited series - the Search for Nathaniel Essex- we can also bring back Miss Sinister in the mix too...


Holy crap witness- I smell a pitch.....!!!!!!

This is a good idea. We need the Nasty Boys.

[jeansbff]

Hellz yeah! Sinister is one of the best x-villains ever! Shame he was downplayed so much as a villain in his final decade as a comic book character. I would have loved to see grant morrison write him.

[Hi-Fi]

I do miss him. And I really miss Miss Sinister. I'd like to see them interacting with each other.

[tlp0708]

I do miss him. And I really miss Miss Sinister. I'd like to see them interacting with each other.

I want to make an Austin Powers Lowe/Wagner remark, but I can't find any videos or images to do so. :(

[witness]

Hellz yeah! Sinister is one of the best x-villains ever! Shame he was downplayed so much as a villain in his final decade as a comic book character. I would have loved to see grant morrison write him.

I would have loved to have seen Morrison's take on him...


I do miss him. And I really miss Miss Sinister. I'd like to see them interacting with each other.

I suspect if Nathaniel Essex found out about Claudine, he'd want her destroyed. But I agree, it would be good to see them in a comic together.

[eggie]

I hope so, I really want the Nasty Boys back as well.

Me too!! A Mr. Sinister and the Nasty Boys comeback would make me very happy!! :biggrin:

[Majinoaw]

I would have loved to have seen Morrison's take on him...



I suspect if Nathaniel Essex found out about Claudine, he'd want her destroyed. But I agree, it would be good to see them in a comic together.

I feel like in the last decade writers barely scratched the surface with Mr. Sinister.

[worstblogever]

Miss Sinister means I don't have to.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38185/845773-miss_sinister___claudine_renko_5_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/miss_sinister___claudine_renko_5/105-845773/)

[Washout]

Miss Sinister needs to make a comeback really soon. Mike Carey should do a Legacy event in which she is the star.

[Waterlily]

I do miss him. And I really miss Miss Sinister. I'd like to see them interacting with each other.

I don't know about seeing them interacting but I do miss them both. More so Claudine. She really needs to be in my comics again.

[Michael_Caesar]

In a classic Claremont-style cliffhanger at the end of an issue, Ms Sinister's body falls lifeless to the ground. *turn to final page* behind her in the shadows stands THE Mr Sinister, original evil Colossus with dracula teeth look, grinning and making a sly remark about the carbon copy can never be the real thing. Scott Summers immediately pees in his pants and goes back to pussy 90s/2000s mode as the man who haunted his childhood has returned to make his life a living hell...

[tlp0708]

Claudine and Nathanial hooking up would also make Scott pee his pants. Emma will have to wipe his ass after that.

[witness]

Miss Sinister means I don't have to.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38185/845773-miss_sinister___claudine_renko_5_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/miss_sinister___claudine_renko_5/105-845773/)

She's not as good as the original though. It's like sitting through the Nicholas Cage version of "Bad lieutenant" rather than watching the Harvey Keitel one.

[brundlefly]

Yes; I miss him terribly. Particularly losing him right after Carey brought him back and did such great work with him in both Blinded By The Light and Sins of The Father.



I would have loved to have seen Morrison's take on him...


Me, too! I was hoping that was what was coming during Here Comes Tomorrow when the clones with the X-Men's powers showed up and I was all "It's got to be Sinister! That's his signature!" What a letdown when it was just Sublime again. :mad:



I do miss him. And I really miss Miss Sinister. I'd like to see them interacting with each other.



I suspect if Nathaniel Essex found out about Claudine, he'd want her destroyed. But I agree, it would be good to see them in a comic together.


I've got my fingers crossed that Essex will eventually use her as a broodmare/trojan horse for his inevitable return.

[fod_xp]

I'll miss Mister Sinister when he ditches that cliche Marilyn Manson 90s Vampire faux feminine make-up job for a real make-up job.

So he goes from cliche:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8134/219807-146644-mr-sinister_super.jpg

To sashay Fabulous:http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/rhps-franksmockglovel.jpg

Because how can he hope to compare with already classic villains like these two:

Professor Pyg:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/TIxEE4y4dhI/AAAAAAAAOsw/RR3zILimtQA/s1600/batmanandrobin14+-+pyg2.jpg

or the Black Glove: http://mindlessones.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/batrob13.jpg

[Michael_Caesar]

What if Emma was working with Sinister all along in the ultimate plot to ruin Scott's life....?

[tlp0708]

fod, I swear to the X-boards god, if you don't stop posting Professor Pyg pics, I will hunt you down.

[Elijah Dexan]

Scott is de-facto leader of the X-Men.

Mr. Sinister is Scott's nemesis.

It only makes sense to bring him back to put the screws on Scott.

[witness]

Yes; I miss him terribly. Particularly losing him right after Carey brought him back and did such great work with him in both Blinded By The Light and Sins of The Father.



Me, too! I was hoping that was what was coming during Here Comes Tomorrow when the clones with the X-Men's powers showed up and I was all "It's got to be Sinister! That's his signature!" What a letdown when it was just Sublime again. :mad:





I've got my fingers crossed that Essex will eventually use her as a broodmare/trojan horse for his inevitable return.

I think something like that is likely, although I wonder whether he may already be inhabiting Gambit, under the disguise of "Death". Some of the scenes with him talking to the playing card, just made me think he could be hiding inside him. After all, he had just performed surgery on him.

[witness]

What if Emma was working with Sinister all along in the ultimate plot to ruin Scott's life....?

This would be excellent. I miss Emma as a villain.


Scott is de-facto leader of the X-Men.

Mr. Sinister is Scott's nemesis.

It only makes sense to bring him back to put the screws on Scott.

I can't see him being gone for long, he's connected to too many different characters.

[ohsnapulon5000]

Scott is de-facto leader of the X-Men.

Mr. Sinister is Scott's nemesis.

It only makes sense to bring him back to put the screws on Scott.

Let's not forget all that raw genetic potential walking around in the forms of Nate Grey and Hope *shudder* Spaulding...

[SJNeal]

Maybe not "terribly", but I do miss him. He's one of my top 3 X-Villains (after Sabretooth and Magneto).

[witness]

Maybe not "terribly", but I do miss him. He's one of my top 3 X-Villains (after Sabretooth and Magneto).

OK, the "terribly" part may be over-egging it, slightly.

[BLACKWINGS]

Hell flippin' yes! I miss Sinister.

I really want the Marauders back too, and the Nasty Boys would definitely fit the bill for the lack of villian teams in the comics these days.

As far as Miss Sinister is concerned . . . . . I want Sinister to to unite both the Marauders and the Nasty Boys to hunt down and destroy Miss Sinister with a passion that rivals the intensity of the Inferno. Then send the ashes to the X-Office as a warning to any writer or artist that is foolish enough to spit on such an awesome villian ever again. Then hunt down and wipe out any and every character in the comics that even whispers her name or even remembers the idea of her.

I loved Carey's work in the Supernovas/Condition Critical/Messiah Complex arcs - but the Miss Sinister debacle will forever mar his name for me. He kneeled before the trendy fads of Marvel and created another flippin' female clone of an already perfect character.

[fod_xp]

fod, I swear to the X-boards god, if you don't stop posting Professor Pyg pics, I will hunt you down.

For you, anything, especially after that post. I love when you get authoritative and aggressive at the same time!

[tlp0708]

For you, anything, especially after that post. I love when you get authoritative and aggressive at the same time!

You're a sick puppy. Sometimes, I adore you.

[fod_xp]

You're a sick puppy. Sometimes, I adore you.

Well I already new the first part, but the second part of your post just made my day! *blushes*

[tlp0708]

Well I already new the first part, but the second part of your post just made my day! *blushes*

Just don't wet yourself. And no more Pyg images, plz. Except in the New X-men and Cyclops threads. Go crazy.

[Justin K.]

I hope so, I really want the Nasty Boys back as well.

Claudine would rule them with an iron stiletto.

[Majinoaw]

Hell flippin' yes! I miss Sinister.

I really want the Marauders back too, and the Nasty Boys would definitely fit the bill for the lack of villian teams in the comics these days.

As far as Miss Sinister is concerned . . . . . I want Sinister to to unite both the Marauders and the Nasty Boys to hunt down and destroy Miss Sinister with a passion that rivals the intensity of the Inferno. Then send the ashes to the X-Office as a warning to any writer or artist that is foolish enough to spit on such an awesome villian ever again. Then hunt down and wipe out any and every character in the comics that even whispers her name or even remembers the idea of her.

I loved Carey's work in the Supernovas/Condition Critical/Messiah Complex arcs - but the Miss Sinister debacle will forever mar his name for me. He kneeled before the trendy fads of Marvel and created another flippin' female clone of an already perfect character.



The Search for Essex... Claudine seeks to ressurect Sinister. She uses the Nasty Boys to help her in her mission - a team of X-men with personal history with Sinister fight to stop her. Along the way they come up against the Marauders and many other operatives Sinister has used in the past. The X-men are unsuccessful, Claudine ressurects Sinister and as a thank you he snaps her neck. This is a rough outline of my pitch.

[1bulma1]

Yes he was the only one minus rogue that made gambit very scared and vulnerable................i remember xmen 45 when he appeared to gambit at the end of the book, gambit was like oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo SHIT

In Xmen the animated series, mr sinister was the only one that could actually piss off Cyclops (minus wolverine)

[Not_A_Zombie]

Mr. Sinister is one of my favorite villains, and it was his involvement in the XML 2 video game that got me interested in reading comic books again.

I was saddened to see him go during Messiah Complex. Then excited by his sudden possible return in Xavier's Legacy. Only to have it be a poor twist in which his mind, and talents are transfered to some bimbo who does little with them.

As much as I like him, I'd like Sinister to remain off the board for a while so that when he does return it is in a grand fashion worthy of his brand of villainy, and not some cheap ploy.

[fod_xp]

Just don't wet yourself. And no more Pyg images, plz. Except in the New X-men and Cyclops threads. Go crazy.

ZOMG YESSSS!!!

See you around! Have a good one!:smile:

[Michael_Caesar]

Sinister would be the perfect man to knock Scott off his throne...

[alexforever]

I got a back issue of his first appearance once. Didn't know what to make of the new 'Mister.' But he grew on me, what can I tell you. He's great.

[The Black Guardian]

Sinister is a villain that lives underground for vast periods of time, then comes out and kicks ass. It hasn't really been long enough to miss him. However, he's the best damned major villain the X-Men have.

And when he returns, I want to see him using the bodies of Mystique and Wolverine as clubs.

[MarvelMaster616]

Yes, I think we can all agree he's one of the creepier characters of the Marvel mythos, but in terms of pure villainy Mr. Sinister is in a league of his own. For that reason, I do miss him. It seems like the X-men are lacking in the big villains department with Magneto now on their side and Bastion being defeated. Who else is there? With a new generation of mutants running around, it seems like Sinister would be in an ideal position to complicate it up somehow. I hope Marvel doesn't keep him out of the picture for too long. It's exceedingly hard to come up with good villains these days. :cool:

[Michael_Caesar]

Hell flippin' yes! I miss Sinister.

I really want the Marauders back too, and the Nasty Boys would definitely fit the bill for the lack of villian teams in the comics these days.

As far as Miss Sinister is concerned . . . . . I want Sinister to to unite both the Marauders and the Nasty Boys to hunt down and destroy Miss Sinister with a passion that rivals the intensity of the Inferno. Then send the ashes to the X-Office as a warning to any writer or artist that is foolish enough to spit on such an awesome villian ever again. Then hunt down and wipe out any and every character in the comics that even whispers her name or even remembers the idea of her.

I loved Carey's work in the Supernovas/Condition Critical/Messiah Complex arcs - but the Miss Sinister debacle will forever mar his name for me. He kneeled before the trendy fads of Marvel and created another flippin' female clone of an already perfect character.

Involve X-Factor and X-Force in the crossover too and call it "the Sinister War", complete with cover art by Marc Silvestri as the X-Men are caught between the two Sinisters, Marauders and Nasty Boys in a big throwdown! And watch the downfall of Scott Summers!!

[witness]

Just don't wet yourself. And no more Pyg images, plz. Except in the New X-men and Cyclops threads. Go crazy.

Actually, it's the first one I've seen, So I appreciated it.


The Search for Essex... Claudine seeks to ressurect Sinister. She uses the Nasty Boys to help her in her mission - a team of X-men with personal history with Sinister fight to stop her. Along the way they come up against the Marauders and many other operatives Sinister has used in the past. The X-men are unsuccessful, Claudine ressurects Sinister and as a thank you he snaps her neck. This is a rough outline of my pitch.

This sounds brilliant...


Yes he was the only one minus rogue that made gambit very scared and vulnerable................i remember xmen 45 when he appeared to gambit at the end of the book, gambit was like oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo SHIT

In Xmen the animated series, mr sinister was the only one that could actually piss off Cyclops (minus wolverine)

Ah, the comic that made me fall in love with both Sinister and Gambit. Happy days.


Mr. Sinister is one of my favorite villains, and it was his involvement in the XML 2 video game that got me interested in reading comic books again.

I was saddened to see him go during Messiah Complex. Then excited by his sudden possible return in Xavier's Legacy. Only to have it be a poor twist in which his mind, and talents are transfered to some bimbo who does little with them.

As much as I like him, I'd like Sinister to remain off the board for a while so that when he does return it is in a grand fashion worthy of his brand of villainy, and not some cheap ploy.

Granted, the timing has to be right.


Sinister would be the perfect man to knock Scott off his throne...

Yeah, he really could twist things up for Cyclops.


Sinister is a villain that lives underground for vast periods of time, then comes out and kicks ass. It hasn't really been long enough to miss him. However, he's the best damned major villain the X-Men have.

And when he returns, I want to see him using the bodies of Mystique and Wolverine as clubs.

You get the feeling that Mystique, Gambit and Rogue are going to be in the firing line when he comes back.


Yes, I think we can all agree he's one of the creepier characters of the Marvel mythos, but in terms of pure villainy Mr. Sinister is in a league of his own. For that reason, I do miss him. It seems like the X-men are lacking in the big villains department with Magneto now on their side and Bastion being defeated. Who else is there? With a new generation of mutants running around, it seems like Sinister would be in an ideal position to complicate it up somehow. I hope Marvel doesn't keep him out of the picture for too long. It's exceedingly hard to come up with good villains these days. :cool:

With X-force going after Apocalypse, I'd love to see how Sinister would use this to his advantage.


Involve X-Factor and X-Force in the crossover too and call it "the Sinister War", complete with cover art by Marc Silvestri as the X-Men are caught between the two Sinisters, Marauders and Nasty Boys in a big throwdown! And watch the downfall of Scott Summers!!

The prospect of Sinister vs Sinister, Marauders vs the Nasty Boys with the X-men caught in between is a tantalising one.

[Michael_Caesar]

I could really see Madelyne Pryor teaming up with Ms. Sinister in order to defeat the one man she hates more than Cyclops. Dark Beast could play a role as well in an attempt to take out a competing evil geneticist.

[Pro]

I'm still wondering why Xavier hasn't shown any signs of using Sinister's powers and knowledge when he still has his DNA. Surely telepathy can't override DNA even if it stopped Sinister from taking over Xavier's body. Wasn't Sinister's DNA without his personality precisely what Amanda Mueller was after? I can imagine that before the trigger was activated the knowledge to use those powers was supressed and unknown to Xavier but now?
Part of Sinister's powerset was emotional detachment. I wouldn't mind seeing Xavier become the new Sinister eventually, slowly developing his newfound powers and in the process becoming as cold and calculating as Sinister was, emotionally drifting away from the x-men over time.
Maybe Xavier knows this and denies himself the use of Sinister's knowledge and powers because of this. Essex already mentioned how much alike he and Xavier are and he's right. It's mostly Sinister's emotional detachment that separates the two.

[andybmcd]

I miss Miss Sinister.

[witness]

I could really see Madelyne Pryor teaming up with Ms. Sinister in order to defeat the one man she hates more than Cyclops. Dark Beast could play a role as well in an attempt to take out a competing evil geneticist.

Excellent point, both Maddie and Dark Beast would doubtless want to take advantage of the situation.


I'm still wondering why Xavier hasn't shown any signs of using Sinister's powers and knowledge when he still has his DNA. Surely telepathy can't override DNA even if it stopped Sinister from taking over Xavier's body. Wasn't Sinister's DNA without his personality precisely what Amanda Mueller was after? I can imagine that before the trigger was activated the knowledge to use those powers was supressed and unknown to Xavier but now?
Part of Sinister's powerset was emotional detachment. I wouldn't mind seeing Xavier become the new Sinister eventually, slowly developing his newfound powers and in the process becoming as cold and calculating as Sinister was, emotionally drifting away from the x-men over time.
Maybe Xavier knows this and denies himself the use of Sinister's knowledge and powers because of this. Essex already mentioned how much alike he and Xavier are and he's right. It's mostly Sinister's emotional detachment that separates the two.

Let's face it, Xavier is doing nothing of worth right now. This could revitalise him. A Xavier with Sinister's cold demeanour would be a fearsome prospect.

[Justin K.]

Let's face it, Xavier is doing nothing of worth right now. This could revitalise him. A Xavier with Sinister's cold demeanour would be a fearsome prospect.

With Legion back in the picture, he could do all sorts of things there.

[witness]

I miss Miss Sinister.

I consider myself thankful that you're only the second person to make that comment.


With Legion back in the picture, he could do all sorts of things there.

A Sinister Xavier with Legion in tow, would be a serious threat.

[Midnightblue]

Yes, I miss him and I hope that when he comes back he will be written as a competent villain (not likeApocalypse in his last storyline)

He should just appear suddenly, say that he's been watching them for months, and then destroy the island, thus forcing them to move back to Westchester (all in one issue:biggrin:)

[witness]

Yes, I miss him and I hope that when he comes back he will be written as a competent villain (not likeApocalypse in his last storyline)

He should just appear suddenly, say that he's been watching them for months, and then destroy the island, thus forcing them to move back to Westchester (all in one issue:biggrin:)

I take it the Issue will be a double-sized one. :biggrin:

For all those who miss him, why not check out "Essex Boy: The Mr Sinister Appreciation thread", which chronicles his history. (yes, this is a blatant plug, but it's not like I get paid for doing it)

[Majinoaw]

I take it the Issue will be a double-sized one. :biggrin:

For all those who miss him, why not check out "Essex Boy: The Mr Sinister Appreciation thread", which chronicles his history. (yes, this is a blatant plug, but it's not like I get paid for doing it)

I would like to see the 616 version of Sinister square off with the 616 version of Apoc. This is something that we've never seen ... the closest was that Cyke and Phoenix LS...

Simonson did something in X-Factor forever, but I mean a full fledged throwdown between the two in present day and the 616....

[Majinoaw]

Sinister really is Cyke's greatest enemy...

[tlp0708]

Sinister really is Cyke's greatest enemy...

Cyke is his own greatest enemy. He screws thing up for himself far more often than Mr. Sinister ever did.

[coconutphone]

No but I miss Miss Sinister.


I love Miss Sinister!

[Majinoaw]

I consider myself thankful that you're only the second person to make that comment.



A Sinister Xavier with Legion in tow, would be a serious threat.

She has a purpose. To jumpstart the Sinister War minievent...going on in the X-titles. Then Sinister snaps her neck. That's the only reason she's needed.

[BLACKWINGS]

She has a purpose. To jumpstart the Sinister War minievent...going on in the X-titles. Then Sinister snaps her neck. That's the only reason she's needed.

Agreed! Her only purpose is to serve as Sinister's first notch on his belt upon his return. I would dare say that she was possibly the worse character to ever be created in my 20 years of X-Men comics.

[witness]

I would like to see the 616 version of Sinister square off with the 616 version of Apoc. This is something that we've never seen ... the closest was that Cyke and Phoenix LS...

Simonson did something in X-Factor forever, but I mean a full fledged throwdown between the two in present day and the 616....

It would be nice. Knowing Essex, he'd make sure the fight happened when Apoc was at his weakest. Would also like to see him assemble a team of all powerful mutants to pit against the Horseman (More heavyweight than the Marauders, obviously).

Another thought, when he comes back. With Cable now dead, will he instigate a plan b to take down Apocalypse (knowing Essex, there has to be a plan b)

[Michael_Caesar]

And Apocalypse should not be involved whatsoever! I could see Joe Q pulling for that and turning it into a big mess. The only exposure Apocalypse should get during Sinister War is two or three panels watching the battle and laughing that Sinister only exists and does what he wants is because he allows it, or some other arrogant shit like that as he lies in some egyptian hyperbolic chamber healing from his latest ass-whupping...