Does Wonder Woman need a "Rebirth" -like run

[mathew101281]

I think the major problem with Wonder Woman is that every new creative team feels that they need to recreate her. Perhaps the next creative team needs to do what Geof Johns has done with Green Lantern of what Grant Morrision is doing with Batman. Instead of starting from scratch they should find a way to incorperate previous runs into one coherent Mythology.

[Sheldontalbot]

I think that's a good idea. I, for one, am tired of a "BOLD NEW DIRECTION" practically every time a new writer comes aboard.

[dreyga2000]

I must admit I've spent time thinking about this... Execution is really key in the styling... For instance Diana Prince has to be more investigator than super-spy to create some actual contrast between Wondie and Diana's jobs... I do believe Diana Prince and Ambassador Wondie can coexist...

In costume Diana is the Themiscrian Ambassador of Peace spreading a message of love and accpetance in the arena of international politics and goodwill... With Trevor Barnes as head of Ambassdory staff...

In her civies she Diana Prince, International Woman of Mystery, A shadowy international figure James Bond-like figure with the world's most impressive resume...Having hold positions as an army nurse, a military operative, fashion designer, astronaut, U.N. correspondant, amatuer detective, Taco Whiz cashier... Her secret identity is just a cool and impressive as she is costume Wonder Woman doesn't use a fake persona at the workplace...

But unknown to most she is operative for Inter-Agency Defense Command (IADC), a CIA-like organization fighting criminals... Led by Director Steve Trevor and often aided by agents Etta Candy, Tom Tresser aka Nemesis...

Diana Prince is private identity (as in her close herfriends and family know her of her secret identity and she's willing to let people she trusts in on her secret) she uses this identity to more discreetly investigate wrong doings around the globe... Where she does good and larger more public scale...

WWII Elements can be incorporated by "taking a page from marvel" and have her fight a fictional terror group like A.I.M. or Hydra led by Baron Von Paula Gunther....


Her timeline is a combination of pre-crisis and post crisis adventures... During her early years she lived with the Kapetalis's until she moved out on her own with a job as a military secretary... She quickly moved up the ranks and became a military anti-terrorism officer...

[Jimmy Bond]

I think this would be the best solution.

I think each writer on Wonder Woman have contributed some strong developments to WW on the table. The problem is that some of the other developments haven't been as strong, and it's all been very inconsistent. So if you put together the best parts of the runs from the previous writers, you'll have the perfect way to go.

Perez did a good job streamlining WW and bringing the ambassador angle, which fits in line with Marston's conception. But then there were also some flaws, like (I would argue) entrenching her too much in mythology, which has started a rather negative precedent.

So enter Bryne, he put WW in more conventional superheroics and toned down mythology big time. There are good things about that. I especialy like Darkseid, the ultimate representation of oppression and tyranny, as a Wonder Woman foe. But I understand there are a lot of other issues with this run.

Then skipping forward, Rucka sort of added some of the chivalry aspects to the character, and I have seen a lot of people credit him for giving the most important developments to the character. At the same time, his stories were kind of destructive to the character, which is why DC pulled the plug on his run.

And then you have Simmone's run, etc. I think the key is to plug the best aspects of the various runs from each writer, and you have the perfect way to go.

In a nutshell, Wonder Woman should be a feminist crusader with Greco/Roman mythic and psychosexual undertones that fights worldwide oppression, mainly gender oppression. Gender oppression is a real life problem, especially in regions like the Middle Easy and Africa. I think each writer has brought something useful to the table. You just need to put the best parts together.

[Fused]

At this point I'd like Geoff Johns/Ivan Reis to kinda get it and do a lot of it right, rather than JMS/Kramer and gopher pencillers get it and intentionally muck it up.

[americanwonder]

Um, didn't both Jimenez and Simone try the "incorperate" approach? And didn't both (arguably) receive mixed results as a result?

How would this new rebirth be different and more successful?

[theblock]

No she didn't need a "Rebirth" like we're getting now, I was soooo much happier with Gail writing her, I thought she had the perfect voice down for Diana, yet I was a little disappointed in her final ark. The Silver Serpent story to me seemed too short, and we never saw what happened to her own Green Lantern characters after they fled, did they survive? I hope so since I'd love to see them show up in a GJC book somewhere down the line. And Achilles had so much more untapped potential then what we got. Then before I knew it, story over, Amazons apparently vindicated for helping at the last minute after murdering women and children during AA, it all felt rushed :frown:.

But they (DC editorial) had to lure Gail away by dangling Birds of Prey over her, with the Brightest Day banner over it because Hawk & Dove are shoehorned into it..I think those are dumbest superheroes in the history of comic books:evilangry:
And Nicola Scott is now gonna do pencils on Teen Titans!? Seriously!? I guess DC thinks if we can't get a decent story out of that book it might as well look good. Anyone find that sad that the closest we get to more Nicola Scott goodness on WW is that she's drawing Cassie:confused:? Although if the new Terra (the likable one Jimmy Palmiotti created) joins up with them it could make me wanna start buying that book.

[swatkat]

.

But they (DC editorial) had to lure Gail away by dangling Birds of Prey over her, with the Brightest Day banner over it because Hawk & Dove are shoehorned into it..I think those are dumbest superheroes in the history of comic books:evilangry:


I have mixed feelings on Hawk and Dove, but having Gail back on the Birds of Prey is the best thing ever. I say this as someone who found her WW run quite entertaining.

[Fused]

I have mixed feelings on Hawk and Dove, but having Gail back on the Birds of Prey is the best thing ever. I say this as someone who found her WW run quite entertaining.

Agreed on both counts.

[4PointOh]

Isn't the JMS run supposed to be like a "Rebirth"?

[Tiberious]

No she doesn't need a "rebirth" where everything goes together. She needs a "relaunch" back into super heroism and out of mythology.

[Fused]

No she doesn't need a "rebirth" where everything goes together. She needs a "relaunch" back into super heroism and out of mythology.

I dunno about all that. Superheroism and Mythology isn't mutually exclusive in regards to Wonder Woman. In fact, I think both are very definitive of the character.

[Tiberious]

I dunno about all that. Superheroism and Mythology isn't mutually exclusive in regards to Wonder Woman. In fact, I think both are very definitive of the character.

If it were a modernized Harry Potter/Sorcerer's Apprentice mythology then sure. Having her fight winged harpies/Keyes is guaranteed to drive sales down. There is a reason Rucka gave Athena a laptop and turned Ares into Brad Pitt.

[Fused]

Mintaur chef? Blindfolded Gorgon arena duel? As much as I criticized Rucka's run, I loved these things in recent years. Hell I have that statue of Wonder Woman grabbing a Hydra by the throat. I find a superheroine entangled with a Greek beast from myth iconic for her.

[Tiberious]

Mintaur chef? Blindfolded Gorgon arena duel? As much as I criticized Rucka's run, I loved these things in recent years. Hell I have that statue of Wonder Woman grabbing a Hydra by the throat. I find a superheroine entangled with a Greek beast from myth iconic for her.

Yet it moves her backwards. Batman faces new crime lords and scum. Superman faces new intergalactic threats. Wonder Woman fights hags with bat wings.

Don't get me wrong, throwing some mythology Wonder Woman's way every now and then is okay. I however LOVE the super hero side of Wonder Woman. Let's see her war against a city under the threat of Dr Poison. Have her fight the nano tech of Dr. Cyber. I loved the panel of Wonder Woman stopping the bank robbers and delivering the baby because she was a hero not a castaway from the Argonaughts.

Having Diana fighting cyclops all the time is like having Green Lantern throw the big energy glove. Sure its iconic but there is so much more to both characters.

[Fused]

Yeah please don't get me wrong. I think the superhero part of her is the best; running around with the JLA fighting Amazo, etc. It's the reason I like her classic costume the best. It's not traditional Greek, totally impractical, sensational, pure fantasy. Par for course superhero fair, in other words.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/934/95499-18208-106755-1-wonder-woman_large.jpg

I was just saying mythology shouldn't be shunned and that it should generally be integrated. Batman = crime/drama noir + superhero stuff, GL = Star Wars + superhero as WW = Clash of the Titans + superheroics.

[nightforce]

Fused, well said

And I would LOVE a Re-Birth type thing with Wonder Woman

I would LOVE Geoff Johns to write it though


"Now Ducks before getting Hit with tomatoes"

[Fused]

Hah! I'd be first in line to buy it at my LCS. "Diana Prince of Earth", be damned.

[dumbstruck]

Whatever they do with WW, just keep Geoff Johns away from her.

[nightforce]

Hah! I'd be first in line to buy it at my LCS. "Diana Prince of Earth", be damned.

Then I will be right behind you at the LCS :wink:

[Scott Taylor]

If they are not going to do a rebirth, I'd just as soon see an alternate universe version of her until they get it right. Like we have right now in JMS' version.

[Fused]

Yeah we know. GL and Flash got Rebirths, Supes got Birthright and we're getting All-Nu WW. We're just talking about what would be be fun in prospect.

[americanwonder]

Can we get Rucka to plot the stage, Simone to write Diana and friends, and Johns to write the bad guys?

Morrison can be let loose on a second title to play in his own lil' sandbox.

:biggrin:

[Alex Dragon]

"Rebirth", "Reboot", "Restart" and such are basically gimmicks to get fans to pay attention to a character or to toss old stuff out and start from scratch. Most of the sugestions being offered up here don't require a "rebirth" to make them happen. A writer simply needs to execute them. All the stuff you may feel isn't working, is lame or just needs to go away can easily be ignored if the writer chooses.

Unless you're talking about an ULTIMATE WONDER WOMAN type book where WW is given a new orgin and update set in present times, a "Rebirth" isn't going to give you anything that couldn't happen in the current series.

[Jimmy Bond]

"Rebirth", "Reboot", "Restart" and such are basically gimmicks to get fans to pay attention to a character or to toss old stuff out and start from scratch. Most of the sugestions being offered up here don't require a "rebirth" to make them happen. .

Well I assumed the thread said "'Rebirth' - Like Run" so I thought this was more about the run than pulling some kind of Rebirth or Reboot.

But honestly, gimmicks to get fans to pay attention don't hurt.

[knowwonder]

I'm afraid we will need a rebirth following this nu-Wonder Woman run. We needed one right at the on-set of volume 3, but received a half-hearted, boiled down version that kept going in circles after Amazons Attack.

As fans, we've obviously read far more stories than the writers, and have a better grasp on most of the nuances--even the timeline. I think this is where a lot of the frustration stems in the fanbase--we KNOW there are better stories out there--we KNOW there are plotlines and characters that have been left dangling--we KNOW she deserves better.

The writer who does his homework and ties the ages together, works with what is already established and supresses the desire to 'mark' the character will write an acclaimed run on the book.

It can be done. You just need a big enough erasable white board to put it on.

[TimothyLaskey]

The writer who does his homework and ties the ages together, works with what is already established and supresses the desire to 'mark' the character will write an acclaimed run on the book.



I feel that Simone's run was an earnest attempt at doing just that. Despite the trappings that were left for her to work with (The DoMA, Nemesis relationship, Sgt. Steel acting irrationally, the Rucka version of the gods being off-limits, Amazons Attack and Max Lord being reinforced...) she turned in a run that settled nearly ALL those plot points, while tying together some of the earlier runs on the character remarkably well.

Perez' origin was honored and expanded upon, the purple healing ray from the Golden Age was fleshed out some more, and classic villains such as Cheetah, Giganta, Dr. Psycho, Ares, Cottus, and Astarte were given a modern turn. The 'spanking and bondage' quirk from Marsten was alluded to in the Crows story. The whimsy of the Golden Age was brough back with various adventures.

I think a writer like Gail, who is willing to serve the fans as well as the character by honoring what came before, is what Diana needs most if she's going to come into her own. There really is a wealth of potential in the character that's just "left dangling"... and only a faction of comic book fans recognize it.

But WW also needs for editorial to clear the slate, and then step back for such a writer to step in. A talented, loving writer can do so much, but only if editorial doesn't saddle them with excess baggage. Esp. stuff that the die-hard fans just didn't care for. I mean who actually thought Amazons Attack was a well-written, engaging, necessary chapter in WW history? So, WHY did they decide to shove it into Gaill's run? She's talented but not a miracle worker! :wink:

My choice for a writer who I think could pull it off:
1) Gail Simone - take two!
2) Neil Gaiman - I'd love to see him cut loose with some grand superhero action on this title. His Eternals run showed some potential. And he's got a very interesting idea about stories being about men, and stories about women. Diana is a character that feels at home in both.
3) Grant Morrisson - with a cautious eye, I'd like to see his version tying together all the eras of WW, ala All Star Superman. Maybe with a co-writer to ensure that the story is more grounded in reality than his Wonder Woman from Final Crisis was.

Does anyone know if GL: Rebirth had the same issues with editorial boxing Geoff into certain circumstances? I haven't read all of Rebirth or the GL issues that came out prior to it.