Superman/Batman: Apocalypse

[Death Itself]

...at least they didn't add the "Now" at the end again. And I didn't see a thread here for it and since it's about Supergirl as well, I felt there should be one here.

Now there's and old saying in Hollywood that bad books make for good movies because you can't make them worse. Usually that's correct, but in the DCU animated movies both Doomsday and Public Enemies showed the lameness carried directly over the screen. So imagine my surprised that I actually liked this movie. A lot. Maybe my low expectations helped given I so hated all of Jeph Loeb's run I sold off all the issues of Superman/Batman that I bought and nothing offends me more than the continued belief that Michael Turner was ever a good artist. Thirty years ago that bad anatomy and swimsuit model posing in lieu of actual storytelling never would have made it past the door in professional comics and I blame Image.

What really makes this even shocking is this is one of the more complete adaptations in recent memory. They leave almost nothing out, but that's also an indication of how weak and dragged out the initial story was that they could include it all and still have room to add much needed fleshing out of the characters, especially the relationship with Clark and Kara. The shopping scene only mentioned in the comics is shown here and does a great job showing a relationship between the two by adding affection and levity (same for the end flying sequence).

Also aiding the weak original story is the quick pace. It was needlessly stretched out thanks to whole pages essentially dedicated to pin-ups rather than storytelling, but this means the story moves faster so you don't have time to dwell on the contrived idea that people feel Kara is evil (which ultimately turned out to be radiation poisoning making it even dumber in retrospect) or that rather than talk to Superman, Wonder Woman would attack him and Supergirl to take her away. And who is Harbringer and why is she on Themyscira? We don't have time. On to Apokolips!

But ultimately I feel credit goes to the director, Lauren Montgomery, who made Wonder Woman so entertaining. Aside from good performances from the actors, she's got a flair for action and the many action sequences here are very well done, especially the final showdown between Darkseid and Superman...and Supergirl. Yes, a massive correction is made by jettisoning the origianl, awful dismissal of Darkseid single-handedly by Superman barely lifting a finger and instead having both him and Kara barely surviving Darkseid. Richard Pryor once made the joke that Muhammad Ali didn't beat Leon Spinks, but merely "beat him off him." That's what happens here. They don't beat Darkseid. They just beat him off them. No matter how much whoop-ass they unleash on him (another improvement: we see results of Kara's amazon training), he comes back just as strongly with more whoop ass of his own and ultimately they just settle for getting rid of him, with on last nice twist again with emphasis on the character of Kara.

I stopped buying DC's animated products a while back after being burned once too many, but I may have to pick this up to own. Though I might make my own cover for it, because the sheer idiocy of not having Supergirl and Wonder Woman, the two most famous female superheroes on the planet, on the cover annoys me incredibly. Are they not trying to sell these things to people beyond comics fans?

My simple advice: go in not expecting much and you'll have a pretty good time

[Eivion]

Though I might make my own cover for it, because the sheer idiocy of not having Supergirl and Wonder Woman, the two most famous female superheroes on the planet, on the cover annoys me incredibly. Are they not trying to sell these things to people beyond comics fans?
Supergirl was on the cover of the version I watched.

[Death Itself]

Supergirl was on the cover of the version I watched.

Supergirl or some evil-looking blonde that could be anyone that only comics fans know is Supergirl? And still no Wonder Woman. Big marketing fail.

[DavidAllred]

Never understood the hate. Doomsday, Public Enemies, and Apocolapyse are fun movies set out to do exactly what comics are supposed to do -- let you unwind, dream a little, and have a good time.

I loved the movie, even if the animation wasn't quite as good as the previous releases. It was a GREAT story and they were true to the source material.

Go get it. Expect to be entertained. You will be. If you are expecting an academy award type film, well go watch something else that makes you want to jump of a bridge or shave your neighbor's cat. That's not what these releases are designed to do.

And PS, the Green Arrow short is likewise a lot of fun.

[Death Itself]

Never understood the hate. Doomsday, Public Enemies, and Apocolapyse are fun movies set out to do exactly what comics are supposed to do -- let you unwind, dream a little, and have a good time.

I loved the movie, even if the animation wasn't quite as good as the previous releases. It was a GREAT story and they were true to the source material.

Go get it. Expect to be entertained. You will be. If you are expecting an academy award type film, well go watch something else that makes you want to jump of a bridge or shave your neighbor's cat. That's not what these releases are designed to do.



If I go into McDonalds and order a cheeseburger, fries and a shake and the cheeseburger has no cheese, the fries are cold and the shake is warm, they don't have license to say "Hey, it's just fast food. You don't have the right to expect better." They still have an obligation to prepare the food properly. Similarly, Jeph Loeb has an obligation to tell a story where longtime friend of Superman, Wonder Woman doesn't attack him and try to abduct his only living relative without talking to him first. Nor was Michael Turner ever excused from learning to draw anatomy or telling a story properly merely because "it's a superhero comic." That's where the hate comes from. No one expected Watchmen, but they did expect a competent comic from paid professionals.

That said, the difference between the animated version and the source material is the producers of the film took the time to put cheese on your burger, cook your fries and make sure your shake was cold.

[Mat001]

Supergirl or some evil-looking blonde that could be anyone that only comics fans know is Supergirl? And still no Wonder Woman. Big marketing fail.

No, it's marketing success because female superheroes don't sell well. That's the new thing from Warner, hence no Wonder Woman and Supergirl was only included dressed in her Apokolips outfit. Timm would've rather had them on the cover, but he was overruled.

[elbobbo]

If I go into McDonalds and order a cheeseburger, fries and a shake and the cheeseburger has no cheese, the fries are cold and the shake is warm, they don't have license to say "Hey, it's just fast food. You don't have the right to expect better." They still have an obligation to prepare the food properly. Similarly, Jeph Loeb has an obligation to tell a story where longtime friend of Superman, Wonder Woman doesn't attack him and try to abduct his only living relative without talking to him first. Nor was Michael Turner ever excused from learning to draw anatomy or telling a story properly merely because "it's a superhero comic." That's where the hate comes from. No one expected Watchmen, but they did expect a competent comic from paid professionals.

That said, the difference between the animated version and the source material is the producers of the film took the time to put cheese on your burger, cook your fries and make sure your shake was cold.


But your analogy doesn't work your original argument was more along the lines of "I hate fast food but I'm going to get some fast food and then complain that it was fast food."
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with you not liking them and some of your points are valid but if you don't like the source material but then suddenly expect to like another version of that then the fault lies in your thinking.
Personally I enjoyed Doomsday well enough, not to say it was great but it was fun I enjoyed the S/B story arc, rare for me with a Loeb written comic, but that may be more because I liked the Kara character prior to reading it. I am currently watching Apocalypse so can't form an opinion of it but as of half an hour in it looks like it is exactly the same story right down to the dialogue.

As for the "marketing fail" of no Wonder Woman on the cover it was sold out, both DVD and Blu Ray, at two Targets and two WalMarts and Best Buy had only two copies left so I think it's selling much better than the Wonder Woman DVD did from the onset

[Death Itself]

No, it's marketing success because female superheroes don't sell well. That's the new thing from Warner, hence no Wonder Woman and Supergirl was only included dressed in her Apokolips outfit. Timm would've rather had them on the cover, but he was overruled.

Fail because there's no one on this earth who said, "I was going to get that until I saw girls were in it" whereas there are Wonder Woman fans with zero interest in Superman & Batman. Lost sales no matter how slight.

[Death Itself]

But your analogy doesn't work your original argument was more along the lines of "I hate fast food but I'm going to get some fast food and then complain that it was fast food."
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with you not liking them and some of your points are valid but if you don't like the source material but then suddenly expect to like another version of that then the fault lies in your thinking.
Personally I enjoyed Doomsday well enough, not to say it was great but it was fun I enjoyed the S/B story arc, rare for me with a Loeb written comic, but that may be more because I liked the Kara character prior to reading it. I am currently watching Apocalypse so can't form an opinion of it but as of half an hour in it looks like it is exactly the same story right down to the dialogue.

As for the "marketing fail" of no Wonder Woman on the cover it was sold out, both DVD and Blu Ray, at two Targets and two WalMarts and Best Buy had only two copies left so I think it's selling much better than the Wonder Woman DVD did from the onset

My analogy was about you, not me. Your seeming willingness to accept substandard quality for certain things. You deserve a well made cheeseburger just like you'd deserve a well made steak. Don't compromise. Jeph Loeb didn't take a smaller check for writing crap nor did you pay less.

And WW and GL were sold out too initially in my area. Didn't hold up in the end.

[KET]

No, it's marketing success because female superheroes don't sell well. That's the new thing from Warner, hence no Wonder Woman and Supergirl was only included dressed in her Apokolips outfit. Timm would've rather had them on the cover, but he was overruled.

Hence, that's really DCE and WB fail; because if their marketing departments actually got off their collective posteriors, they COULD sell two of the biggest superheroine names in the world. Supergirl has had a popular girls clothing line for years now (even before they hired the young Olympian to be a spokesmodel), so this marketing excuse is still mainly a cop-out.

[Nordh]

Nice writeup. I just watched it this weekend and must say I quite enjoyed it! The midsection was a little shaky I thought but other than that, no complaints really. And I have to agree, Diana was for the most part very good.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Overall, I'll have to put this one down as an "Eh, It was okay, I guess," like I did with Public Enemies. I mean, if they're gonna adapt Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman, there's only so much polish they can really give, in the end.

Summer Glau did a pretty charming turn as Kara, though. And they succeed in removing all that corn from the Darkseid punchfest at the end (even gave Kara an actual role in the asswhuppin'), as well as the creepiness from the bit where Supes stops Artemis in the ring.

[Mat001]

Fail because there's no one on this earth who said, "I was going to get that until I saw girls were in it" whereas there are Wonder Woman fans with zero interest in Superman & Batman. Lost sales no matter how slight.

Sad fact of life, movies with female leads in action films do not do very well. Even when they're done well. Another fact is that female action figures don't sell well at all. Hence when any are made, they're in smaller quantity than the male counterparts.


And WW and GL were sold out too initially in my area. Didn't hold up in the end.

Except that "Public Enemies" was the top grossing DVD released up to then. That's why we have this film, the first and so far only one to spring forth an actual sequel. The only reason we're getting another GL animated film is because of the feature film. Diana's film was a slow seller for WP. Granted, now we have a live action series coming and if it is a hit, we could get another film out of her.


Hence, that's really DCE and WB fail; because if their marketing departments actually got off their collective posteriors, they COULD sell two of the biggest superheroine names in the world. Supergirl has had a popular girls clothing line for years now (even before they hired the young Olympian to be a spokesmodel), so this marketing excuse is still mainly a cop-out.

Merchendise, yes. An actual film, television show and animated series, not so much. We've had one Supergirl film in nearly 30 years and the last one bombed worse than the fourth Superman film. Besides, the only thing we know for certain about said merchendise is that it has a pink Supergirl logo. Very little of it has Kara featured prominately. Most girls would recognize the name from a couple of hit songs, rather than the Girl of Steel.

[ShaggyB]

i just watched it, It wasnt half bad. Had its points where it could have been better, but overall it was good. I didnt feel ripped off.

[godzilla2099]

Watched it last night.

Loved it!!

Superman was powerful and compassionate.
Batman was cautious and his 'human nature' impressed Darkseid
Wonder Woman was strong and inspiring.
Darkseid was Bad A$$

Characterization was good. Story was intense.

I give it a 10 out of 10

[Death Itself]

Sad fact of life, movies with female leads in action films do not do very well. Even when they're done well. Another fact is that female action figures don't sell well at all. Hence when any are made, they're in smaller quantity than the male counterparts.

Which is an argument for prominence, not complete and utter omission. No one is saying WW should have been equal to Superman & Batman, but she is the single most famous female superhero on the planet and Supergirl is #2. Not having them in costume at all on the cover is ridiculous and just bad business, because I'm equally sure no one said, "I wasn't going to get this until I saw that evil-looking blonde on the cover" either.

[maniacthw]

Fail because there's no one on this earth who said, "I was going to get that until I saw girls were in it" whereas there are Wonder Woman fans with zero interest in Superman & Batman. Lost sales no matter how slight.

I HIGHLY doubt Wonder Woman sells better than Batman or Superman. So, which cover would've sold better to a non comic book fan? Batman/Superman, or Supergirl/Wonder Woman?

[Death Itself]

I HIGHLY doubt Wonder Woman sells better than Batman or Superman. So, which cover would've sold better to a non comic book fan? Batman/Superman, or Supergirl/Wonder Woman?

Neither would sell as much as all four, which was the opportunity lost here.

[maniacthw]

Neither would sell as much as all four, which was the opportunity lost here.
to
While true, I kind of like the cover. It also adds a bit of mystery as to what the story's about.

[supergirls_pal]

I thought Apocalypse was good overall. I was not happy with Darkseid's voice or the fact that Kara was still kidnapped in the park, but that final fight on the Kent Farm and its aftermath more than made up for this movie's shortcomings. I really liked how Kara was portrayed in this movie, and I hope Summer Glau will voice Supergirl again in any future animated productions.

[dupersuper]

I finally saw this. Wonder Woman and Batman still come off as kidnappers (because they are, I suppose); I don't understand why they couldn't have a discussion with Clark and Kara rather than Diana holding a teen at knife point. It looked like a hostage negotiation. I liked it otherwise though. I loved Clarks reaction when *slight spoiler* Ma and Pa Kent come home. The guy who leads the Justice League and just went toe to toe with an evil space god going "Oh oh" when his elderly farm couple parents come home to a mess is adorable.

[Death Itself]

I finally saw this. Wonder Woman and Batman still come off as kidnappers (because they are, I suppose); I don't understand why they couldn't have a discussion with Clark and Kara rather than Diana holding a teen at knife point. It looked like a hgostage negotiation.

It was horrible on the page and even these people couldn't save it. Diana not talking to Clark first is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Dumb when Loeb wrote it and dumb when they decided to just follow it for this feature. My favorite part is when Diana shows the damage as a reason for taking Kara. Damage she was responsible for attacking her!

[Vanguard01]

It was horrible on the page and even these people couldn't save it. Diana not talking to Clark first is just dumb, dumb, dumb. Dumb when Loeb wrote it and dumb when they decided to just follow it for this feature. My favorite part is when Diana shows the damage as a reason for taking Kara. Damage she was responsible for attacking her!

This. All of this.

I refuse to buy this DVD because they insisted on keeping this kidnapping nonesense. I can buy Bruce doing it, but Diana would NEVER have gone along with this. This story made Diana look like a backstabbing, sanctimonious coward who just hauls off and attacks one of her closest friends and terrorizes his teenage cousin just because The All-Powerful and All-Knowing Batman asked her to join him in his ridiculous paranoia.

Not only that, but she doesn't even apologize for the blatant betrayal of Clark's trust. Hell, as you said, she feels the need to use the damage SHE CAUSED in a gutless sneak attack as a justification for taking Kara? Kara was just eating a hot dog with Clark and taking a walk. There would've been no damage at all if Diana and Bruce had bothered to show Clark any respect.

They thought she needed to control her powers? She was learning how to control her powers FROM A MAN WHO HAD BEEN LEARNING TO CONTROL THOSE SAME POWERS FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE! Themiscyra was a safer place for Kara to be? Really? Like a bunch of Amazons would fare any better against an out-of-control Kryptonian than the Metropolis Police? Really, I would've loved to see Kara suddenly bust out the superspeed or the freeze breath and make Artemis look like a complete chump in that training exercise, just to show Diana how brilliant her plan was. And really, how does teaching Kara how to SWORDFIGHT teach her to control her heat vision and superstrength again?

Add to that, not only does Diana not apologize for acting like a world-class bitch to Clark, she actually has the gall to get mad at HIM when he expresses his anger toward her for betraying his trust. Really, I'd love to see Clark kidnap Cassie or Donna while claiming it was for their own good. Diana would've blown up in his face.

I'm a huge Superman fan, but I'm also a huge Wonder Woman fan. This story was a big insult to the both of them, and it was the easiest choice I've ever made to give this DVD a pass once I learned that DC decided to change nothing about this incident.

[Dam Fox]

While I did enjoy this, I agree that whole "kidnapping" scene was pretty stupid. They're surprised at the damage she caused after they attacked? Ooookay.

[zryson]

i have watched it twice. might be watching it a third time today with a friend but some elements dont work (darkseid for one). dc animated have done better.

[Xistel]

I've seen better. But it's not bad

[Billium 3]

This was good, but could've been GREAT had they brought Michael Ironside back as Darkseid.

[hellacre]

B rating.

For once Superman is not the chump the Timm team likes to make him out to be. He was well rounded. He and Batman do play off each other well. The relationship between him and Kara was as nice as it could be considering how rushed it was in that 70 mins.

Shame about WW and how she carries on at times but the book had her act ooc conniving with Batman and the cartoon does not really improve on that godawful ambush scene. It truly in hindsight is a terriblly written scene. When kara screams and is dragged away by the lasso and then Diana makes her stupid case I did long to slap her for her arrogant stupidity. And I love WW. Her fight scenes with Barda were excellent.

Darkseid was such a let down. Voice wise and those omega beams...wow...for a moment I wondered if it could hit anything. It was a stupid change to the power of the omega sanction. The way they got rid of Darkseid too was lame I thought. DCAU has used the the ultimate big bad here and in the cartoon and they always, to me, fail to make him the truly terrifying powerhouse he is. For one the omega sanction is not a blaster gun to take aim and misfire so many times nor can say Batman outrun it. If Mr McDuffie and Co ever read this thread...get that right next time please.

[Death Itself]

Darkseid was such a let down. Voice wise and those omega beams...wow...for a moment I wondered if it could hit anything. It was a stupid change to the power of the omega sanction. The way they got rid of Darkseid too was lame I thought. DCAU has used the the ultimate big bad here and in the cartoon and they always, to me, fail to make him the truly terrifying powerhouse he is. For one the omega sanction is not a blaster gun to take aim and misfire so many times nor can say Batman outrun it. If Mr McDuffie and Co ever read this thread...get that right next time please.

The Omega Beams were another thing. Apparently they're just weak-ass heat vision here, because they don't do a lot of damage to Superman, Supergirl or even Darkseid for that matter.

But two nice DCAU homage moments: 1) Darkseid covers Superman's face when he tries to use his head vision to hurt him the way Superman did to Darkseid in STAS and 2) Supergirl burns through Darkseid's foot when he's stomping on her head like Superman did to Darkseid in JLU.

[Splatt]

I haven't watched the movie, but if it's as dumb as the comic I'll pass.

[dupersuper]

This. All of this.

I refuse to buy this DVD because they insisted on keeping this kidnapping nonesense. I can buy Bruce doing it, but Diana would NEVER have gone along with this. This story made Diana look like a backstabbing, sanctimonious coward who just hauls off and attacks one of her closest friends and terrorizes his teenage cousin just because The All-Powerful and All-Knowing Batman asked her to join him in his ridiculous paranoia.

Not only that, but she doesn't even apologize for the blatant betrayal of Clark's trust. Hell, as you said, she feels the need to use the damage SHE CAUSED in a gutless sneak attack as a justification for taking Kara? Kara was just eating a hot dog with Clark and taking a walk. There would've been no damage at all if Diana and Bruce had bothered to show Clark any respect.

They thought she needed to control her powers? She was learning how to control her powers FROM A MAN WHO HAD BEEN LEARNING TO CONTROL THOSE SAME POWERS FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE! Themiscyra was a safer place for Kara to be? Really? Like a bunch of Amazons would fare any better against an out-of-control Kryptonian than the Metropolis Police? Really, I would've loved to see Kara suddenly bust out the superspeed or the freeze breath and make Artemis look like a complete chump in that training exercise, just to show Diana how brilliant her plan was. And really, how does teaching Kara how to SWORDFIGHT teach her to control her heat vision and superstrength again?

Add to that, not only does Diana not apologize for acting like a world-class bitch to Clark, she actually has the gall to get mad at HIM when he expresses his anger toward her for betraying his trust. Really, I'd love to see Clark kidnap Cassie or Donna while claiming it was for their own good. Diana would've blown up in his face.

I'm a huge Superman fan, but I'm also a huge Wonder Woman fan. This story was a big insult to the both of them, and it was the easiest choice I've ever made to give this DVD a pass once I learned that DC decided to change nothing about this incident.

I want to marry this post...