Moderate talent, major success

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?

[howyadoin]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?A. People are stupid.

B. People love douchebags.

C. People can rarely tell the difference between a poseur and the real thing.

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

[CSM101]

i think that^ about sums it up

but Motley crue is just about Jesus-level rock compared to most mainstream music these days

[Shellhead]

A. People are stupid.

B. People love douchebags.

C. People can rarely tell the difference between a poseur and the real thing.

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

All true. And my only fond memories of that kind of music all involve strip clubs.

[Professor Moriarty]

"Moderate talent, major success"

that should be the title of Lady Gaga's next album.

[Melanieshaman]

"Moderate talent, major success"

that should be the title of Lady Gaga's next album.

and metallica's next album (at least since after the black album)

[Oskar Von Strange]

and metallica's next album (at least since after the black album)

Lol

Death Magnetic was an improvement, imo.

[Oskar Von Strange]

A. People are stupid.

B. People love douchebags.

C. People can rarely tell the difference between a poseur and the real thing.

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

Ditto.

Its all looks and no talent.

[Melanieshaman]

Lol

Death Magnetic was an improvement, imo.

not hard to improve on garbage, i still can't stomach it

[Oskar Von Strange]

not hard to improve on garbage, i still can't stomach it

To each his own.:smile:

[Melanieshaman]

To each his own.:smile:

ayup :P (not long enough)

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?

You're referring to Lee's huge donger when you mean "talented," yes?

[Lord Bravery]

Lil Wayne. In fact pretty much every single new rapper that has emerged in the last decade.

[Melanieshaman]

Lil Wayne. In fact pretty much every single new rapper that has emerged in the last decade.

Agreed! While not a huge rap fan, i haven't been able to stomach anything in about the last 15 years or so.. I miss the late 70s early 80s rap.

[Ziggy Stardust]

You're referring to Lee's huge donger when you mean "talented," yes?

Is it huge?

I never bothered with the Tommy/Pam vids.

[Ilash]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?

And yet, on the other hand, Dr Feelgood, the band, were massively talented but never really made it all that huge.

[the4thpip]

Diana Ross... she was the first pop star to do what Madonna, Gaga and others would later do. Use your limited talent and average looks, be glamorous, provocative and absolutely ruthless and become a mega star.

[Hiromi]

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

That was hardly limited to the 80s, or lite metal for that matter. Answer to the thread question is easy, Marketing + Promotion = Profit

[jessecuster3]

A. People are stupid.

B. People love douchebags.

C. People can rarely tell the difference between a poseur and the real thing.

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

I would actually say that regardless of their musical acumen they were darn good songwriters.

[Lord Bravery]

Is it huge?

I never bothered with the Tommy/Pam vids.

heh yea, let's just say it isn't all talk.

[TripleX]

Lil Wayne. In fact pretty much every single new rapper that has emerged in the last decade.

That's a standard statement from someone that doesn't really listen to Hip-Hop.

[Wjowski]

Might as well change the subject title to "I don't like X and I don't understand why other people like them".

[the4thpip]

Might as well change the subject title to "I don't like X and I don't understand why other people like them".

We're not going to have the "all critique is based on personal taste" discussion again, are we? Because it's not.

[seis.mic]

Moderate talent, major success?

KISS

Hard.

[andthegunslinger]

Lil Wayne. In fact pretty much every single new rapper that has emerged in the last decade.

Nah, don't be silly :)

The rap scene over the last few years has been pretty decent.

Hip hop is like any other genre. If you don't go hunting through the junk you'll only ever hear the shit on the radio. The only reason people say the above is because they've never delved into hip hop on a deeper level.

If you're an appreciator of poetry, I think hip hop can at some times be irresistable and hip hop lyricism blows i'd say pretty much every genre out of the water.

Obviously Lil Wayne is a big bag of poo but I think it's your fault as a music appreciator to have not dug past all the radio rubbish and discovered the good stuff.

I can think of many examples but here's just one, there's an English grime rapper (grime is generally a shockingly bad genre) who said in one song:

How can I stop my pen from crying?
When I put pain in the ink I'm straining to think
I've prayed, I've sinned, I'm saved within
I bleed creative ink
And not a lot's changed, I still don't believe in much
And my gran keeps telling me to keep in touch
and since grandad died she hasn't been feeling love
And when she goes I'll be bleeding floods
Lyrically leaking love all over the page all over again

I think as lyricism it stands up quite strong against most music. Your fault for not delving deeper man :)

[Melanieshaman]

Nah, don't be silly :)


How can I stop my pen from crying?
When I put pain in the ink I'm straining to think
I've prayed, I've sinned, I'm saved within
I bleed creative ink
And not a lot's changed, I still don't believe in much
And my gran keeps telling me to keep in touch
and since grandad died she hasn't been feeling love
And when she goes I'll be bleeding floods
Lyrically leaking love all over the page all over again

I think as lyricism it stands up quite strong against most music. Your fault for not delving deeper man :)

Except for the last line, that sounds like it was lifted from a Savatage or Jon Oliva's Pain song to be honest. That man can write!

[andthegunslinger]

Yeah he's a mega talented dude. I find it impossible to listen to him without without a few lyrics here and there making me go "Whoa" :) In the same song he said "I bleed on beats" meaning like he pours his heart out onto the beats in his music (and obviously we as humans bleed as our heart beat.)

Wretch 32 he's called. At first listen he sounds like your basic grime artist. But he goes deep someties.

Then you hear him say "Like Jesus Christ, i'm independent, I own my soul"and it blows your mind :) (in the pendant)

I think a lot of people take for granted the intelligence of some hip hop. I don't doubt for one second that brothers like Mos Def, Talib Kweli and Canibus are smarter and more aware than your average indie band.

Lol I recently heard Talib (as Reflection Eternal) in a song called Ballad of the Black Gold (here cos it's so awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDbSy9MXz2o) say "If you're oil rich then we invade it, they call it occupation but we're losing jobs across the nation." How deep is that!

Yeah hip hop is amazing :)

Haha I've pretty much hijacked this thread. Some major online terrorism on my part. On topic: KISS.

[DrewTheXenocide]

She & Him: Snoozefest made bearable by nice tits.

[Romero]

She & Him: Snoozefest made bearable by nice tits.

M. Ward is reasonably talented. I like some of his solo stuff alright.

But yeah, she sings in that nasally monotone that doesn't veer much from her speaking voice and kind of flattens everything.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Arcade Fire. Emotionally bankrupt faux-indie nonsense.

The "swooping crescendoes", multi-instrumentation, and familial atmosphere don't mask your lack of heart. As overrated as latter-day Radiohead's whine-and-computer plinkplonk.

Give me exagerratedly bloated corporate rock like Motley Crue and Kiss anyday over this treacly crap.

[pariah-1972]

I listened to one of Motley Crue's hit albums and all the chorus's sounded exactly alike.


Then there is Creed and other bands that sound like that.

[Ottmeister X]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?

I'm not a big fan of Dr. Feelgood, but the first three albums by Crue are good, IMO. Shout at the Devil is a classic rock album and Live Wire from their first album is an awesome song.

I agree that aside from Tommy Lee, not too much talent leftover. But like sports, sometimes it's not just the talent but how cohesive the group is together. I think Crue deserved what they earned during that time period as compared to their peers. No one is clamoring that they were a band of historic proportions.

[Ottmeister X]

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.

And that statement could branch out to rock music in general. There are many studs/studettes in the singing department for rock music, but being a vocal savant has never been a main requirement of a rock band (i.e. - probably half of the local bands in your area). If 80's hair band singers are to be criticized for their ability, then better lump in punk and most heavy metal singers.

I didn't mind the voices of David Coverdale, Joe Elliot, Jeff Keith, Sebastin Bach, Jack Russell, Tom Keifer, Phil Lewis, Kip Winger to name a few. I'm not a big Bon Jovi fan, but Jon has some decent rock chops.

[blackdragon6]

That's a standard statement from someone that doesn't really listen to Hip-Hop.i listen to rap and i agree...

[moonknight11]

Arcade Fire. Emotionally bankrupt faux-indie nonsense.

The "swooping crescendoes", multi-instrumentation, and familial atmosphere don't mask your lack of heart. As overrated as latter-day Radiohead's whine-and-computer plinkplonk.

Give me exagerratedly bloated corporate rock like Motley Crue and Kiss anyday over this treacly crap.

This a pretty old post but

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/2085/original/Kornheiser_Why.JPG?1267079689

[pariah-1972]

A. People are stupid.

B. People love douchebags.

C. People can rarely tell the difference between a poseur and the real thing.

D. The 80s lite-metal scene fully embraced singers who couldn't hold a note in a bucket.Where there any pop metal bands that weren't complete poseurs?

[SlightlyMad]

and metallica's next album (at least since after the black album)

I thought it was called Lars Ulrich's Gold-Plated Shark Tank Fund?

[jesse_custer]

Arcade Fire. Emotionally bankrupt faux-indie nonsense.

The "swooping crescendoes", multi-instrumentation, and familial atmosphere don't mask your lack of heart. As overrated as latter-day Radiohead's whine-and-computer plinkplonk.

Give me exagerratedly bloated corporate rock like Motley Crue and Kiss anyday over this treacly crap.

I used to think they were maudlin, but The Suburbs is their most mature album, so they deserve another listen, I believe.

[Justin K.]

Arcade Fire. Emotionally bankrupt faux-indie nonsense.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I don't see the hoopla about them at all. The same could be said for a lot of the Canadian bands that come from the same scene that seem to sound different, when all in all, it's the same old moaning. Then again, with the CRTC *cough*Nazis*cough*, it's all I hear on the rock stations here, especially the alternative ones.

[SlightlyMad]

Paul Rodgers. As a lifelong Queen fan I hated being denied the chance to go and see 2 of my favourite musicians in recent years as their songs were being mangled by this mediocre has-been vocalist whose equal, or even better, could be found in any band in any pub/club anywhere in the World!

[pariah-1972]

I nominate Oasis.

[Adam C]

I nominate Oasis.

Gentlemen, we have...a wiener.

[beanjuice]

Yeah, my friends and I caught Oasis back in the days when they were just getting their first write ups in the music press, pre-records, supporting The Verve(when they didn't a 'The' prefix), and we did not see what the big deal was at all, in fcat we didn't believe they were the band that we had heard about in the music press. I caught the T-Rex riff , i remember that, they just sounded like my mate's dad's pub rock band.
I did buy their first album the 1st day it came out, as i was v curious how they sounded albumwise, it was alright, a couple of good ones, Columbia, Bring it all down, Live Forever, Supersonic, Slide Away...but the rest I wouldn't listen to. Couldn't stand C&A or that one that ripped off the New Seekers.
They only had a couple of good ones on the second album, I can't recall which ones right now, Champagne Supernova, She's electric(i would imagine Oasis haters would detest this one, but i like the chorus melody a lot) but between the first and second album I thought there was one very good album in there. After that, 3rd album onwards, what I have heard sounds v boring, but i imagine there are probably a couple here and there i would like out of all of them.
Even though folk complained about them ripping off Wire(which they did in little parts, but no more than the Stones and Beatles ripped off Chuck Berry and Howlin Wolf etc), I always thought Elastica's 1st album was the best rock music that was made during that Britpop period, i used to listen to the radio a lot then and got the NME every week, but for the most part I preferred the American bands of the time, Nirvana, Screaming Trees, Dandy Warhols, Royal trux.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Yeah, my friends and I caught Oasis back in the days when they were just getting their first write ups in the music press, pre-records, supporting The Verve(when they didn't a 'The' prefix), and we did not see what the big deal was at all, in fcat we didn't believe they were the band that we had heard about in the music press. I caught the T-Rex riff , i remember that, they just sounded like my mate's dad's pub rock band.
I did buy their first album the 1st day it came out, as i was v curious how they sounded albumwise, it was alright, a couple of good ones, Columbia, Bring it all down, Live Forever, Supersonic, Slide Away...but the rest I wouldn't listen to. Couldn't stand C&A or that one that ripped off the New Seekers.
They only had a couple of good ones on the second album, I can't recall which ones right now, Champagne Supernova, She's electric(i would imagine Oasis haters would detest this one, but i like the chorus melody a lot) but between the first and second album I thought there was one very good album in there. After that, 3rd album onwards, what I have heard sounds v boring, but i imagine there are probably a couple here and there i would like out of all of them.
Even though folk complained about them ripping off Wire(which they did in little parts, but no more than the Stones and Beatles ripped off Chuck Berry and Howlin Wolf etc), I always thought Elastica's 1st album was the best rock music that was made during that Britpop period, i used to listen to the radio a lot then and got the NME every week, but for the most part I preferred the American bands of the time, Nirvana, Screaming Trees, Dandy Warhols, Royal trux.

LOL @ Dandy Warhols. Ripped off every indie band before them, and most of the shoegazers as well.

As far as Oasis, I would take one of Noel Gallagher's signature melodies (even if they are cribbed from others) over Radioheads' non-Bends output in aggreggate.

And the minute Arcade Fire crafts something as viscerally impactful, unversally transcendant, such perfectly encapsulated pop as "Wonderwall" or "Live Forever" is the day I chuck my Technics SL-1200 out the window.

[beanjuice]

LOL @ Dandy Warhols. Ripped off every indie band before them, and most of the shoegazers as well.

You know, you're right, i never thought of them that way, they do have that wash-y multi-layered guitar overdub sound to their dreamy-spaced out type songs. But they do many different kinds of song approaches and sounds over the course of their albums, a lot of their work hails from the 60s and 70s influences, just like the indie shoegazers. And y'know, that dreamy soundscape thing was probably taken from the 60s too, but offhand i can't cite anyone for that, well maybe Syd Barrett and the early Pink floyd for one, in fact, yeah. But i do give the shoegazers credit for being the first bands to go on tour and manage to avoid stepping on dogcrap for the duration.




As far as Oasis, I would take one of Noel Gallagher's signature melodies (even if they are cribbed from others) over Radioheads' non-Bends output in aggreggate.

And the minute Arcade Fire crafts something as viscerally impactful, unversally transcendant, such perfectly encapsulated pop as "Wonderwall" or "Live Forever" is the day I chuck my Technics SL-1200 out the window.

Yeah, Wonderwall is a very good one too, one of their best. You probably know, but Noel gave Liam the choice to either sing that or Look Back in Anger, and thankfully he chose WW, because LBIA is not that great a song imo, and Noel's vocals are not nearly as strong, if i hear it on the radio i turn it off, it was played to death on the radio back then, same with WW, but that is the far stronger song, and I'm not tired of that one as a result.

The problem with Oasis is they never tried to evolve like Radiohead, no matter what you think of their melodies.
Radiohead scrapped a twelve song albums worth of songs they recorded after Pablo Honey, as thought they sounded too much like Guns N roses, and only then recorded the Bends, that's when they found themselves, because PH was only notable for having Creep on it, as well as being named after one of the sublime Jerky boy prank phone calls from their first album.
That's what Noel should have done with 'Be Here Now', scrapped it and started again from scratch. I remember listening to radio session previews of a lot of the songs, maybe even studio as well, and theysounded like nothing songs, the first single was not as good as their previous work, the one with all the helicopters, lol. The trouble was that Noel had started taking cocaine all the time, and was indulgent with his work, thinking he could just play anything for any length of time(the songs were far too long, as well as being boring, typical negative drug influence), and no-one told him otherwise as he was the golden boy.
I guess that's why you only cited songs from the first two albums in comparing them to Radiohead and AF(who i do not know, i have a taped copy of one album, but did not like it much, can't recall the name of it).

[TripleX]

i listen to rap and i agree...

That's your problem, you listen to rap. I listen to hip-hop.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Thinking of this since I heard Dr Feelgood by Motley Crue on the radio at lunch.

Aside from (arguably) Tommy Lee, there's nothing really all that talented about Motley Crue, yet they sold out stadiums.

WTF?

I will go with what a poster said later....alone none of the guys could do anything. Then as a group they had a spark and used it.


Moderate talent, major success?

KISS

Hard.

KISS in the 1970's was pretty good. Great songs like "Beth" , "Rock n Roll All Night" and created this huge money making empire. Once the paint went off things never was the same. It was great talent in the 1970's.

As far as Arcade Fire goes , I think it speaks volumes that a major popular band like U2 for an album would try and use that type of sound. To try and ape Arcade Fire as many critics suggested for the last album.

That to me showed that if a big band like U2 is trying to do what you did. You have some talent.

[pariah-1972]

Ricky Martin anyone?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ricky Martin anyone?

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx107/vgomesvictor3/ricky_martin1.jpg

"Admit it...your all livin La Vida Loca !"

[pariah-1972]

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx107/vgomesvictor3/ricky_martin1.jpg

"Admit it...your all livin La Vida Loca !"I wish:redface:

[Melanieshaman]

I thought it was called Lars Ulrich's Gold-Plated Shark Tank Fund?

well whatever..lol

oh and btw, say what you want about Gaga (not saying you, just whoever slammed her), but Born This Way is a very powerful and emotional song for some of us. So in that regard she has a TON of talent. She's come a long way from being a DJ in (I believe it was) NYC niteclubs.

[pariah-1972]

well whatever..lol

oh and btw, say what you want about Gaga (not saying you, just whoever slammed her), but Born This Way is a very powerful and emotional song for some of us. So in that regard she has a TON of talent. She's come a long way from being a DJ in (I believe it was) NYC niteclubs.I don't remember anyone saying she was a DJ.. i've seen video's where she used to be a singer songwriter.

[Melanieshaman]

I don't remember anyone saying she was a DJ.. i've seen video's where she used to be a singer songwriter.

I think i saw that on another message board about someone who saw her before she blew up. I may have misread it :P

[4thHorseman]

well whatever..lol

oh and btw, say what you want about Gaga (not saying you, just whoever slammed her), but Born This Way is a very powerful and emotional song for some of us. So in that regard she has a TON of talent. She's come a long way from being a DJ in (I believe it was) NYC niteclubs.

I'm sure people can say that about any band, including Metallica albums you bashed earlier in this thread. Cause I would be one of them.

[Lord Bravery]

Lady Gaga has plenty of talent. She can play a load of instruments, she has a decent voice and she writes not only for herself, but other artists.

That said, she is not a pioneer of pop music like some people think. That electronic/house sound has been around for years.

[Melanieshaman]

I'm sure people can say that about any band, including Metallica albums you bashed earlier in this thread. Cause I would be one of them.

I didn't bash Metallica, I bashed their later works (which a LOT of people do)... I grew up with the releases of Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets, so most everything else after pales. I have heard about 99% of their catalog and not one song feels emotional, powerful yes, emotional no.

[Melanieshaman]

Lady Gaga has plenty of talent. She can play a load of instruments, she has a decent voice and she writes not only for herself, but other artists.

That said, she is not a pioneer of pop music like some people think. That electronic/house sound has been around for years.

oh heck no, I'd never say that! I grew up in the late 70s and 80s, i have heard tons of pop music, and the pioneers of said music genre.

[verslibre]

I'm not a big fan of Dr. Feelgood, but the first three albums by Crue are good, IMO. Shout at the Devil is a classic rock album and Live Wire from their first album is an awesome song.

Lots of good songs on the first couple albums. "Looks That Kill," "Piece Of Your Action," "Bastard," "Too Young To Fall In Love," etc.


I agree that aside from Tommy Lee, not too much talent leftover.

LOL...are you guys going by his sex tape with Pam? You do realize Nikki Sixx wrote all the best songs on the first two albums? I'd give him the most credit for the group's meteoric rise in the '80s.


I didn't mind the voices of David Coverdale, Joe Elliot, Jeff Keith, Sebastin Bach, Jack Russell, Tom Keifer, Phil Lewis, Kip Winger to name a few. I'm not a big Bon Jovi fan, but Jon has some decent rock chops.

Jokes aside, one of those guys is (or used to be) a vocal powerhouse, and no, it's not Bach.