X-Factor #209 *spoilers/review*

[coconutphone]

Fantastic issue!


We open with the team sans Rahne and Ric in Vegas looking for Hela. Shatterstar, having seen all 3 Pirates of the Carribbean movies has challenged actors on a fake pirate ship to battle. Madrox explains again about the 'actor' thing but Star doesn't care. They SHOULD know how to wield a sword even if they're only pretending.

Madrox quickly notices that Layla and Longshot are missing. With non Emma Frost to telepathically link everyone they must split up to look.

Cut back 6hrs earlier when Madrox learns from Ric that Rahne's back. He explains he heard about her recent troubles (X-Force) from when they were last on Utopia. When he didn't see her there he quietly asked around. Ric reveals that she's pregnant. As he explains that it's his (according to her) ric wonders if maybe it was actually one of Jamie's dupes. Rahne assures them that there's no way she'd ever sleep with Jamie. She asks him not to tell any of the X-Men that she's with them as sh doesn't want to go back. Jamie agrees. Still he thinks something's off (yay!), wondering if her playing up her fears was an act. Was he the audience or just part of the show?

Back to the present and Madrox finds Layla and Longshot playing games and winning a ton. He calls the others to tell them to come over (HILARIOUS Guido scene here). We learn why he can be winning since his powers backfire if he uses them for selfish reasons. Layla assures Jamie she was watching him and it was under control.

Asking around some more for Hela one woman (I don't know if she's an establsihed character) warns them to stay away form her. You don't want Hela to notice you.

Madrox decides to do the opposite and what better way to get attention in Vegas than by winning so he tells Longshot to win

How much?

"Everything."

Cue casino by casino winning streak. The team living in luxury while waiting to get noticed. As they walk around to another casino (nice Excalibur reference) Jamie worries about Shatterstar (he got into another fight while looking for Longshot & Layla). Layla asssures him that he'll have plenty of reason to purge his excess energy soon.

Cue 3 of Hela's men whom Star challenges to a fight and gets his clock cleaned. Hela has noticed Longshot and she wants him.

great great issue.

Great dialogue, plot moved quickly even between 2 timelines. The caper to get Hela's attention was hilarious and everyone got some nice small moments there.

9/10

[Psycwave]

Poor Shatty. I think it's being setup for him to be the one who leaves in 213 though. Maybe Rahne being back triggers his anger and jealousy.

[worstblogever]

The cameo by a certain awesome Jane, teasing the potential appearance of a mighty avenger? NICE.

Dialogue from the whole cast? Hilarious, and fitting of their character. Hell, even Guido was funny this issue (trying to "search" in the strip joint was gold). (Although, the fears over Dupe Sperm Donor were really the laughable part.

Perhaps the only odd thing for me, was how Jaime and Layla were bickering about Longshot. Madrox doesn't strike me as the lecturing leader, normally. I mean, he's frustrated as hell, that's established when he's talking about how everybody wandered off the minute they got there, so it's forgivable. But definitely a side of him we don't see often. Likewise, Layla jumping up and down and cheering at the craps table. That's a bit more animated and happy for the onetime creepy little girl.

Really fun issue, though. 8.5/10

[coconutphone]

Was that Thor's old Nurse? I didn't know the name. Makes sense if she knows about Hela.

[worstblogever]

Was that Thor's old Nurse? I didn't know the name. Makes sense if she knows about Hela.

Jane Foster, indeed. She's a doctor, now, though. Thus why she calls "Don" after finding out folks are looking for Hela.

[CyberHubbs]

Jane Foster, indeed. She's a doctor, now, though. Thus why she calls "Don" after finding out folks are looking for Hela.

It might have been Don Draper from Mad Men.

He's quite the catch.

[FanboyStranger]

X-Factor has really been on a roll since Second Coming. I loved Guido searching for Layla and Longshot in the strip club and how everyone brought up Madrox' dupes when they saw Rahne was pregnant.

[coconutphone]

Jane Foster, indeed. She's a doctor, now, though. Thus why she calls "Don" after finding out folks are looking for Hela.

Ahh OK. Thanks. I figured she was someone known. Nice touch PAD.

Still I hate Rahne. Sooooooooooooooooo glad Jamie is suspicious of that lying trash bag.

[worstblogever]

Ahh OK. Thanks. I figured she was someone known. Nice touch PAD.

Still I hate Rahne. Sooooooooooooooooo glad Jamie is suspicious of that lying trash bag.

Especially because of her suspicious lack of pants. She might be a knocked up Skrull, for all he knows.

[RickyD410]

Likewise, Layla jumping up and down and cheering at the craps table. That's a bit more animated and happy for the onetime creepy little girl.
She's always been quite the actress though. She knows how to play her part when she needs to.

[NewMutant]

Poor Shatty. I think it's being setup for him to be the one who leaves in 213 though. Maybe Rahne being back triggers his anger and jealousy.

I hope not. He has been a welcomed addition.

[coconutphone]

I'd think Shatty would be one of the LAST characters would wnat to get rid of. He seems to have a blast writing him. If it is him it'd be for a big story-driven reason and I assume with a plan to rbing him back evnetually.

[blehbeh]

Did we ever get any word on Shatterstar's random inclusion on the Generation Hope #1 variant? He could still be bound for that series.

[foreverrhapsody]

Did we ever get any word on Shatterstar's random inclusion on the Generation Hope #1 variant? He could still be bound for that series.

Is there any reason he could be bound for that series, other than "let's steal this character who is suddenly AWESOME and use him for our own nefarious devices!"

[CMBMOOL]

The cameo by a certain awesome Jane, teasing the potential appearance of a mighty avenger? NICE.



Amen to that fact. :cool:

[ohsnapulon5000]

any good Monet moments?

[worstblogever]

any good Monet moments?

Not so much, no. Cover's misleading, I don't believe she joined the team in Vegas. Probably still recuperating from whatever Layla did to her, and the stuff with Baron Mordo.

[Justin K.]

How about Banshee? Not getting my issue until later...

[worstblogever]

How about Banshee? Not getting my issue until later...

Powers-wise, not really.

Character wise? She gives Madrox the business, twice, at least.

[The Lucky One]

How about Banshee? Not getting my issue until later...

Let's just say Rictor is not the only person wondering if one of Jamie's dupes might have knocked up Rahne...

-D

[AcesX1X]

i'd be genuinely upset if shatterstar left. he's one of the main draws for me on this book. i'd rather they get rid of longshot....he's too compromising as a "hero" to me. i'm going to take a ballpoint pen and cross out that stupid "banshee" name in my issue and write-in siryn, as she should properly be called.

[ExodusCloak]

i'd be genuinely upset if shatterstar left. he's one of the main draws for me on this book. i'd rather they get rid of longshot....he's too compromising as a "hero" to me. i'm going to take a ballpoint pen and cross out that stupid "banshee" name in my issue and write-in siryn, as she should properly be called.

I don't really have a problem with that name being used in the issue BUT I have to think twice everytime someone uses the word Banshee on these boards.

[AcesX1X]

I don't really have a problem with that name being used in the issue BUT I have to think twice everytime someone uses the word Banshee on these boards.

that's because she's not the banshee, and your subconscious mind is rebelling against this really forced "development."

[ExodusCloak]

that's because she's not the banshee, and your subconscious mind is rebelling against this really forced "development."

But it was so easy to accept Rachel Grey Summers Howlett as Marvel Girl.

[AcesX1X]

But it was so easy to accept Rachel Grey Summers Howlett as Marvel Girl.

that's because rachel's been stealing other people's identities since the day she chrono-skimmed into selene's dungeon of terrors. her and the black panther would be great friends.

[harostar]

Madrox knowing something about X-Force is a pretty interesting twist. It makes me wonder just how much he actually knows (or thinks he knows), since most people didn't know the whole truth until Second Coming. Some information probably leaked during and after Necrosha, since they were more out in the open during that mess. But it will be interesting to see how that develops.

Also loved how everyone just assumes that a dupe got Rahne pregnant. :biggrin: I liked how it seems that a lot of this is Rictor's assumptions, since Rahne hasn't actually confirmed or denied it. While it doesn't make him happy, I have to wonder if maybe part of him wants it to be his baby. Both because he can't see Rahne being with anyone else in that time period (it probably makes her leaving hurt less, if he doesn't have to wonder about another guy) and also because he has daddy issues/a need to be needed. He clearly has some doubts, but is ignoring them in favor of keeping to this assumption. Still bad of Rahne to not kill that idea dead, but having them both partly responsible for this mess is more interesting then her simply lying.

And Shatterstar's handling of the situation is a nice touch, too. His running headlong into any fight he can find is a nice callback to the last time he had major on-panel relationship issues. (The airport incident back in Cable, anyone?)

Also: HOLY CRAP JANE FOSTER. I wonder if Thor is going to cameo in the final battle to help them against Hela. Either way, it was an awesome little extra.

[Not_A_Zombie]

This issue was so much fun.

[BillCarson]

Even though a lot didn't happen in this issue it was freaking hilarious. About as great as you'd expect a X-Factor in Las Vegas issue to be.

I love how Peter David sort of uses X-Factor to bring in characters from around the Marvel U like Doom a few issues ago and it looks like Thor for this arc,

[preppistonpav]

Even though a lot didn't happen in this issue it was freaking hilarious. About as great as you'd expect a X-Factor in Las Vegas issue to be.

I love how Peter David sort of uses X-Factor to bring in characters from around the Marvel U like Doom a few issues ago and it looks like Thor for this arc,

This was basically how I felt about the issue as well. Sort of an "in-betweener" as far as the action department goes, but many, many hilarious moments. And yeah, I love that PAD has generally made X-Factor more of a Marvel Universe book than just an X-book. Doom and Layla's coziness has been a really awesome development; I loved seeing Pip, plus the hints at Thor popping up; not to mention the previous examples like Aegis, Solo, Spider-Man, etc. I hope this sort of thing continues indefinitely.

-Pav, who thinks the team should get hired to find some missing Runaways...

[chrissstopher]

The humor is typical PAD in this so I enjoyed it (though not Guido's joke about Shatterstar liking something that might go up his backside). But overall, I liked the humor and team dynamic here. PAD writes these D-list characters so well, you almost think they're A-list.

We get a little bit about Rahne and Rictor in the beginning through Madrox's flahsback, but nothing really interesting.

The art here was fun and playful and it fit the tone of the story very well. Shatterstar does looks a bit too cutesy-boyish, not nearly as rugged or warrior-esque as he should be... but everyone else looks really pretty good.

The only thing I didn't love about this issue was the absence of Monet!

[MartinRedmond]

^Guido thought it was funny so it's still a good line.


She knows how to play her part when she needs to.

She is so my role model. <:D

[Ayo]

I can't believe that Shatterstar is cool enough again to be stolen by the big leagues.

He will be the new Deadpool, let's bring on the Shatterstar monthly and four other miniseries!

[fod_xp]

Still I hate Rahne. Sooooooooooooooooo glad Jamie is suspicious of that lying trash bag.

No kidding, damn, not only did she deflect the answer of the baby's parentage from Rictor, she did the same to Madrox when he confronted her about it. All she did was play coy "kitty" and flash some arse as if she were some sex slave in need of a hero.

At this point, Rahne learned one thing from X-Force, playing the victim gets you attention and "treats," and I assume eating her father unleashed some kind of primal predatory nature deep inside her. So at this point Rahne's lying about the babyfaddah and her messing with Rictor's and Shatty's new romance, in tandem with Hela and this Monet vs Evil Adult Layla just makes me think that PAD is totally going to pull the "Rahne kills Layla and Madrox" prophecy sometime soon.


X-Factor has really been on a roll since Second Coming. I loved Guido searching for Layla and Longshot in the strip club and how everyone brought up Madrox' dupes when they saw Rahne was pregnant.

Best part was the Zombie Vikings...and Longshot winning to get Layla a new car. I think she needs a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, hell, with Longshot's luck at Vegas, they could pay cash up front and forget the payment plans, and upkeep of the cars would be just a drop in the bucket!


Especially because of her suspicious lack of pants. She might be a knocked up Skrull, for all he knows.

I KNOW!! She had more ass hanging out then Clay Mann's Rogue!!! LOL, at this point I want to see an artist try that on Scott or Northstar! ZOMG!!! Or they could have Betsy in her ninja thong make out with Archangel in assless chaps! *dies*

[Ebonyleopard]

Favorite exchange:

Madox "Shatterstar, if you threaten more actors, I'm gonna shove those swords of yours where the sun don't shine."

Shatterstar "As if you could."

Madox "Yeah, whatever."

Guido "Actually, he'd prob'ly LIKE--"

Madox "Shut up, Guido."

[feralgibs]

I so loved this issue, even if I'm frustrated as hell at being left hanging about Rictor and Rahne... again! It was very well written and so entertaining that I'm almost willing to forgive another month of limbo. ;p

Guido at the strip club was great and everyone assuming Jamie dupe knocked Rahne up was just gold. She really is playing up the victim card, I was so pleased to see that even Jamie thought something was off. Maybe her getting called on it will be all the sweeter for the waiting? ...Maybe. I liked how Shatterstar was especially violent. I have missed the old homicidal Mr Spock, interesting to see something set him off like that again.

Highly rate this issue, even if it was mostly filler. It was great entertainment and did some nice setups. I have to say that I feel better about the whole Rictor/Rahne/Shatterstar situation after reading it. One more month. One more month. One more month. *sigh*

[harostar]

One more month. One more month. One more month. *sigh*

That's both the best and worst thing about it. Every issue leaves us chewing at the bit, waiting for next month to hurry up and arrive. NEXT ISSUE NOW PLEASE.

[feralgibs]

That's both the best and worst thing about it. Every issue leaves us chewing at the bit, waiting for next month to hurry up and arrive. NEXT ISSUE NOW PLEASE.

YES! I mean, I really did enjoy this issue. Really! I wouldn't have changed anything about it.

I just. You know. Want to see the fleabag get what's coming to her... and NOW!

[harostar]

YES! I mean, I really did enjoy this issue. Really! I wouldn't have changed anything about it.

I just. You know. Want to see the fleabag get what's coming to her... and NOW!

Unfortunately, that won't happen. Jeph Loeb kind of killed him off. (Doc Samson, I mean. :frown:)

In all seriousness, I think you and others hoping for (more) bad things to happen to Rahne are going to be sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely, based on the affection both PAD and the cast themselves have for Rahne, that she's going to be thrown out/shunned/hated on within the series itself. I imagine the eventual result is going to be very much like when any loving family learns one of their own is seriously messed up and crosses the line. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an intervention and efforts to get her the professional help she desperately needs. Doc Samson isn't available anymore, so it might not happen on-panel. But I think the eventual fallout is going to result in anger, shock, and then working to make things right again.

Because X-Factor really is kind of a family. A messed-up, dysfunctional one. But a family, and they take care of their own.

[feralgibs]

In all seriousness, I think you and others hoping for (more) bad things to happen to Rahne are going to be sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely, based on the affection both PAD and the cast themselves have for Rahne, that she's going to be thrown out/shunned/hated on within the series itself.

Oh I'm well aware of how unlikely her correct comeuppance are, and of PAD's love for his pet pooch. I will be severely disappointed if she's anything less than crucified, but I also know better than to hope for something truly entertaining. What I am realistically hoping for is that it will, at long last, end this "thing" between her and Ric. Ric doesn't take betrayal well and that's a pretty big knife in the back, with a good bit of twisting with her continued (and oh so carefully worded) deceptions. I'm sure she'll still be around and might even give birth to the mongrel spawn, but I'm also kind of holding out hope that maybe writers sent her to PAD to dispose of the offspring as creatively as he did Siryn/Banshee's.

I also really hope that her problems are addressed and not just brushed off as "lol preggers chick went nuts" like so many "crazy spells" in Marvel women are. I have faith in PAD to do better than that, but.... Yeah, I'm going to be pissed off that she's still going to be around the team, I've accepted this fact, but I put up with her on the team once before, I suppose I can ignore her presence again. Just hoping that Ric will, at last, stop going stupid over her.

...and yanno, maybe if she's not hated for this mess, she'll actually kill Layla Miller and get shunned/lit on fire for that! I can dream, right?

[preppistonpav]

Unfortunately, that won't happen. Jeph Loeb kind of killed him off. (Doc Samson, I mean. :frown:)

Layla Miller can bring back Doc Samson. Layla Miller can do anything. She knows stuff.

-Pav, who (now that he thinks about it) agrees with whoever said that Layla needs more creepiness...she needs to be like 85% creepy...

...and 8% odd...

[harostar]

Oh I'm well aware of how unlikely her correct comeuppance are, and of PAD's love for his pet pooch. I will be severely disappointed if she's anything less than crucified, but I also know better than to hope for something truly entertaining. What I am realistically hoping for is that it will, at long last, end this "thing" between her and Ric. Ric doesn't take betrayal well and that's a pretty big knife in the back, with a good bit of twisting with her continued (and oh so carefully worded) deceptions. I'm sure she'll still be around and might even give birth to the mongrel spawn, but I'm also kind of holding out hope that maybe writers sent her to PAD to dispose of the offspring as creatively as he did Siryn/Banshee's.

I also really hope that her problems are addressed and not just brushed off as "lol preggers chick went nuts" like so many "crazy spells" in Marvel women are. I have faith in PAD to do better than that, but.... Yeah, I'm going to be pissed off that she's still going to be around the team, I've accepted this fact, but I put up with her on the team once before, I suppose I can ignore her presence again. Just hoping that Ric will, at last, stop going stupid over her.

...and yanno, maybe if she's not hated for this mess, she'll actually kill Layla Miller and get shunned/lit on fire for that! I can dream, right?

What we don't need is another "lol preggers chick went nuts". And PAD does seem to be the writer who can handle this as something other than that, dealing with this instead from a more appropriate and realistic angle. While woven into so much other things going on, I would like to see this handled with the same touch as the Madrox and Terry situation. It took a backseat to the primary storyline, but we still saw the emotional turmoil that everyone suffered as they came to grips with things. And now we've begun to see the wounds healing, something I hope will eventually happen in this situation as well.

I admit that I'm surprised PAD would drag her back through the wringer after all she's endured over in X-Force. But at the same time, it does make sense to address those issues fully. Rahne really endured some of the most horrible events of her life over in that book, and returned to the book a complete mess. As Sunspot prophesied way back in New Mutants, Rictor and Rahne really are bad for each other in the long term. Plenty of spark and passion, but both messed up enough that they end up a disaster.

Then again, I'm a fan of all three characters currently tangled in this mess. So I have to hope for a light at the end of the tunnel scenario, since Rictor and Rahne both deserve better times after all the rough last couple of years they've had.

[feralgibs]

What we don't need is another "lol preggers chick went nuts". And PAD does seem to be the writer who can handle this as something other than that, dealing with this instead from a more appropriate and realistic angle. While woven into so much other things going on, I would like to see this handled with the same touch as the Madrox and Terry situation. It took a backseat to the primary storyline, but we still saw the emotional turmoil that everyone suffered as they came to grips with things. And now we've begun to see the wounds healing, something I hope will eventually happen in this situation as well.

I admit that I'm surprised PAD would drag her back through the wringer after all she's endured over in X-Force. But at the same time, it does make sense to address those issues fully. Rahne really endured some of the most horrible events of her life over in that book, and returned to the book a complete mess. As Sunspot prophesied way back in New Mutants, Rictor and Rahne really are bad for each other in the long term. Plenty of spark and passion, but both messed up enough that they end up a disaster.

Then again, I'm a fan of all three characters currently tangled in this mess. So I have to hope for a light at the end of the tunnel scenario, since Rictor and Rahne both deserve better times after all the rough last couple of years they've had.

"Chick went nuts" is so overdone in comics in general, which is really sad. PAD does seem to have more respect for his female characters then that, so here's hoping! I'm sure I'll be disappointed no matter what happens, and I still think the events of X-Force made her belong more in the Twilight universe than the Marvel one. But, can't blame PAD for other writers, just mildly pissed that that spilled over into the life of one of my favorites.

No doubt that both Ric and Rahne have been through a lot and both deserve better than each other, IMO. I can live with Ric and Star not working out, they've clearly got their relationship problems and a lot to work out. I'm thrilled that they got to give it a go and maybe will get another go in the future, after Star has sewn his wild oats and maybe calmed down a bit, but I will drop the book entirely if they end because of Ric/Rahne. Ric is in no position to help her through her current issues, and it seems like he's just starting to get comfortable in his own skin. Last thing he needs is that much baggage.

My light at the end of the tunnel is first that PAD is all about telling good stories, and while I may hate Rahne, daaaaaaamn has he told a good story. I am paying attention and so invested, he's got me hook, line and sinker. I believe he'll do his best to continue telling a good story. And two... well... We all know all the support/attention that Ric/Star got, that gives me hope that the boys will at least remain around each other.

[harostar]

"Chick went nuts" is so overdone in comics in general, which is really sad. PAD does seem to have more respect for his female characters then that, so here's hoping! I'm sure I'll be disappointed no matter what happens, and I still think the events of X-Force made her belong more in the Twilight universe than the Marvel one. But, can't blame PAD for other writers, just mildly pissed that that ary spilled over into the life of one of my favorites.

No doubt that both Ric and Rahne have been through a lot and both deserve better than each other, IMO. I can live with Ric and Star not working out, they've clearly got their relationship problems and a lot to work out. I'm thrilled that they got to give it a go and maybe will get another go in the future, after Star has sewn his wild oats and maybe calmed down a bit, but I will drop the book entirely if they end because of Ric/Rahne. Ric is in no position to help her through her current issues, and it seems like he's just starting to get comfortable in his own skin. Last thing he needs is that much baggage.

My light at the end of the tunnel is first that PAD is all about telling good stories, and while I may hate Rahne, daaaaaaamn has he told a good story. I am paying attention and so invested, he's got me hook, line and sinker. I believe he'll do his best to continue telling a good story. And two... well... We all know all the support/attention that Ric/Star got, that gives me hope that the boys will at least remain around each other.

AMEN! PREACH IT! *coughs*

I think we can agree wholeheartedly about things. While I remember PAD mentioning wanting to play with a love-triangle between them, I think Shatterstar and Rictor have the potential to come out of this better off. It may be exactly what Shatterstar needs, the proverbial kick in the pants that allows him to understand Rictor's feelings more. He could use a taste of his own medicine, experiencing jealousy and uncertainty so that he can further empathize with Rictor. While I'm a Rahne fan, I prefer them as platonic friends and nothing more. The fling was interesting to see, but ultimately I think they do best when they're friends. Shatterstar has proven himself a good match, and the two seem to bring out the best in each other when together. Even Rahne, I think, will eventually have to see how much they care about each other and step aside. Just hearing how Shatterstar crossed time and space to reunite with Rictor should be enough, considering Hrimhari did much the same for her. That's love right there.

I would love to eventually see Rahne and Shatterstar sit down, and compare notes. Just imagine the look on Rictor's face. He'd die of horror and shame.

[feralgibs]

AMEN! PREACH IT! *coughs*

I think we can agree wholeheartedly about things. While I remember PAD mentioning wanting to play with a love-triangle between them, I think Shatterstar and Rictor have the potential to come out of this better off. It may be exactly what Shatterstar needs, the proverbial kick in the pants that allows him to understand Rictor's feelings more. He could use a taste of his own medicine, experiencing jealousy and uncertainty so that he can further empathize with Rictor. While I'm a Rahne fan, I prefer them as platonic friends and nothing more. The fling was interesting to see, but ultimately I think they do best when they're friends. Shatterstar has proven himself a good match, and the two seem to bring out the best in each other when together. Even Rahne, I think, will eventually have to see how much they care about each other and step aside. Just hearing how Shatterstar crossed time and space to reunite with Rictor should be enough, considering Hrimhari did much the same for her. That's love right there.

I would love to eventually see Rahne and Shatterstar sit down, and compare notes. Just imagine the look on Rictor's face. He'd die of horror and shame.

*Preaches on!*

Love triangle is interesting for sure, especially given Ric's lingering Catholic guilt. I think with a kid involved, even if it's not his, he'd still feel obligated to help. ...not that I'm thrilled about the prospect, but it seems completely within his character to me. I wonder how jealous Shatterstar would be seeing him give so much attention to someone else? It seems like his attention since Shatty came to the team has all been on the redhead. Sharing the spotlight? So not Shatterstar!

I also found it interesting how eager Star was to pick fights this issue. I mean, yeah he seemed to be mostly grins about it all, but I haven't seen him so desperate for a fight that he'd take out an entire bar room in X-Factor. Usually he's too clueless to catch onto insults, but this issue he was itching for any opportunity to kick some butt. Makes me wonder if he's more bothered by it all than he's letting on.

Sad to see how insecure Ric is in all this. I really hope the poor boy gets some stability sooner or later. And maybe his powers back. That would just be the icing on the cake. Star has, at least, shown he is willing to talk out/work on the relationship, where as Rhane seems more prone to running from the problems. Poor Ric, he craves communication, yet he sucks at it so badly. Boy be doomed.

[preppistonpav]

I would like to see this handled with the same touch as the Madrox and Terry situation. It took a backseat to the primary storyline, but we still saw the emotional turmoil that everyone suffered as they came to grips with things. And now we've begun to see the wounds healing, something I hope will eventually happen in this situation as well.


This really hasn't been mentioned much, and has been downplayed a lot in the comic, but one of the things I've REALLY been interested in is the interaction between Jamie and Terry. If I may use standardized test jargon, I'd really like to see this as their "default relationship:"

Terry --> Jamie

as

Kim Pine --> Scott Pilgrim

Makes sense to me.

-Pav

[harostar]

This really hasn't been mentioned much, and has been downplayed a lot in the comic, but one of the things I've REALLY been interested in is the interaction between Jamie and Terry. If I may use standardized test jargon, I'd really like to see this as their "default relationship:"

Terry --> Jamie

as

Kim Pine --> Scott Pilgrim

Makes sense to me.

-Pav

I give this test-jargon plan an A++

[The Lucky One]

Am I the only one who misread the "star-faced maggot" comment for a split second and had to reread it again? See, 'cause the word "faced" is located right above "maggot" in the word balloon, so if you're reading quickly and Shatterstar's sexuality has been a focus of the issue, for a split second it looks like he's being called... uh, something else.

No? Just me? Okay then.

-D

[Legion_Quest]

If Rahne does need therapy after all this there are other therapists other than Doc Sampson. Better even. Like Trauma, the son of Nightmare, from Avenger's Academy.

He needs to show up again somewhere, far too cool to get lost (but then I think the same about Baron von Blitzschlag and he'll likely never be seen again).

[The_Livewire]

If Rahne does need therapy after all this there are other therapists other than Doc Sampson. Better even. Like Trauma, the son of Nightmare, from Avenger's Academy.

He needs to show up again somewhere, far too cool to get lost (but then I think the same about Baron von Blitzschlag and he'll likely never be seen again).

Trauma would also work well since they both have ties to Dani. Hells, if we're not going to see Dani/Rahne in NM, them talking in XF would be good.

(The Doc Sampson issue was my favourite of PAD's first X-factor run)

[coconutphone]

Unfortunately, that won't happen. Jeph Loeb kind of killed him off. (Doc Samson, I mean. :frown:)

In all seriousness, I think you and others hoping for (more) bad things to happen to Rahne are going to be sorely disappointed. It's very unlikely, based on the affection both PAD and the cast themselves have for Rahne, that she's going to be thrown out/shunned/hated on within the series itself. I imagine the eventual result is going to be very much like when any loving family learns one of their own is seriously messed up and crosses the line. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an intervention and efforts to get her the professional help she desperately needs. Doc Samson isn't available anymore, so it might not happen on-panel. But I think the eventual fallout is going to result in anger, shock, and then working to make things right again.

Because X-Factor really is kind of a family. A messed-up, dysfunctional one. But a family, and they take care of their own.


We need an intervention for PAD to break off his bizarre affection for that hypocritcal shrew fleabag.

[Legion_Quest]

Sometimes he visits these threads, look out for him

[Michael P]

We need an intervention for PAD to break off his bizarre affection for that hypocritcal shrew fleabag.

Yeah, he's the bizarre one. :rolleyes:

[coconutphone]

Yeah, he's the bizarre one. :rolleyes:

Well he does enjoy sporting that fedora with the pink feather in it....

[Pro]

Jeph Loeb kind of killed him off. (Doc Samson, I mean. )

Doc Samson is dead?
Damn it ..

So much for my comic book pitch:"Doc Samson, superhero psychiatrist", featuring nothing but monthly therapy sessions gueststarring everyone else.

[MartinRedmond]

I liked Rahne since I was like 8 year olds. I immediately understood she was meant to be an eternally a timid & lame crybaby who needs her mummy, but I'm enjoying her regardless here. It's fun anyway. I can't wait for Rictor to become overprotective of her lying ass. >:D

[Pro]

I liked Rahne since I was like 8 year olds. I immediately understood she was meant to be an eternally a timid & lame crybaby who needs her mummy, but I'm enjoying her regardless here. It's fun anyway. I can't wait for Rictor to become overprotective of her lying ass. >:D

That scene with him attempting to take on a dozen or so agents to protect a pregnant terry a while back certainly shows some promise.

Do you think he'll go out with guns blazing and be the one who is "leaving" the team soon? (i.e dying)

[feralgibs]

We need an intervention for PAD to break off his bizarre affection for that hypocritcal shrew fleabag.

I'm so in for this intervention. Let's set it up!

While we're at it, someone call Bob Barker, he'll be so disappointed. PAD forgot to spay his pet and now look at the mess we're in :(

[Legion_Quest]

That scene with him attempting to take on a dozen or so agents to protect a pregnant terry a while back certainly shows some promise.

Do you think he'll go out with guns blazing and be the one who is "leaving" the team soon? (i.e dying)

If Rictor or 'Starr leave........anger wont be the right word.

I'm hoping Guido will be leaving. He doesn't really bring anything.

[Not_A_Zombie]

If Rictor or 'Starr leave........anger wont be the right word.

I'm hoping Guido will be leaving. He doesn't really bring anything.

Guido is more useful than Rictor. And less redundant than Shatterstar. Rictor can go as far as I'm concerned.

[MartinRedmond]

That scene with him attempting to take on a dozen or so agents to protect a pregnant terry a while back certainly shows some promise.

Do you think he'll go out with guns blazing and be the one who is "leaving" the team soon? (i.e dying)

RIght, this reminds me I have about 40 back issues to read some day.

[Ayo]

Maybe someone should initiate some sort of widespread internet campaign to keep Shatterstar and Rictor in X-Factor.

Here's what I think: if readers want to read about Shatterstar, they should come to X-Factor. Not that Shatterstar should join whatever shennanegans are happening in X-Force (or wherever)

[Legion_Quest]

Guido is more useful than Rictor. And less redundant than Shatterstar. Rictor can go as far as I'm concerned.

Guido has strength, meh, Monet brings that.

'Starr and Rictor are an interesting situation that make for good reading, even if one of them doesnt have the powers.

I'd rather reads several pages of their problems that a whole book of Guido being Hulk-lite.

[Not_A_Zombie]

And where is Monet now? Guido provides more than just his powers. X-Factor needs a good reliable fella like him around. The drama will take care of itself.

[Legion_Quest]

I disagree, and we're likely to go round in circles.

Guido brings nothing I want to read about and hasnt for the whole run, he's just there. Pretty much everyone else is more interesting to me, so hence he's my pick for the leaver.

I doubt he actually will be though.

[Not_A_Zombie]

Yeah, just stickin' up for my boy.

[harostar]

Ah, the classic round-and-round of character like/dislike.

I propose a duel! Not_a_Zombie and I can take on Feralgibs and Legion_Quest in a Westside Story-ish dance battle.

[harostar]

While we're at it, someone call Bob Barker, he'll be so disappointed. PAD forgot to spay his pet and now look at the mess we're in :(

To be fair, that's more like someone else stealing your pet and then abusing and breeding them. You get fluffy back and well....look at the mess you're left to deal with.

[feralgibs]

Ah, the classic round-and-round of character like/dislike.

I propose a duel! Not_a_Zombie and I can take on Feralgibs and Legion_Quest in a Westside Story-ish dance battle.

Hey, I've nothing against any character except Wolfsbane! ...maybe Monet. Maybe. Only because if I tell people she's on the team I feel like I have to justify it. She's the ultimate mary sue fan character, she just happens to be canon.


To be fair, that's more like someone else stealing your pet and then abusing and breeding them. You get fluffy back and well....look at the mess you're left to deal with.

This is why you should spay early. *nod*

[harostar]

Hey, I've nothing against any character except Wolfsbane! ...maybe Monet. Maybe. Only because if I tell people she's on the team I feel like I have to justify it. She's the ultimate mary sue fan character, she just happens to be canon.



This is why you should spay early. *nod*

*laughs*

Well, we can duel over Wolfsbane and they can duel over Guido.

*sagenods* With any luck, the baby will at least be interesting enough. I continue to facepalm endlessly over the whole situation (seriously, victimization and getting a Twilight-ish supernatural baby is the best they could do with her? Disappointed.) and would rather it never happened. I mean, yeah, her leaving opened the door for Shatterstar to return and become a darkhorse. But I think fans of the character and anti-fans alike probably hated the whole situation from X-Force.

I'm glad PAD didn't just pull a Dazzler and brush the whole thing under the table. But this demigod wolf-baby had better bring something interesting and entertaining to the table. (On the other hand, it's part Jotunn and sure to be pretty darn unpredictable with a bloodline like that.)

[RuggeSkin]

I'm just glad that Longshot got to be awesome for this issue. Seriously, how many of the 2 page, 4 panel Vegas win-fest pics were proposed cover ideas? Love me some Longshot. AND the possibility of a competently written Thor! (Yeah, I know Hipster D-Bag Demi-Gawd Fraction is good on Solo hero books but that doesn't excuse that steaming pile we've been forced to acknowledge as Uncanny for the past few years) And given the Next Issue cover, it seems the Baby Daddy Drama might come to a head next issue. (or at least get meatier) And, despite my adoration of the character, screw Doc Sampson. This situation requires Maury!


Speaking of those panels, was the guy Terry is winking at supposed to be anyone we should know or is she just werkin the Ho Stroll as MichealK would say?

[feralgibs]

*laughs*

Well, we can duel over Wolfsbane and they can duel over Guido.

*sagenods* With any luck, the baby will at least be interesting enough. I continue to facepalm endlessly over the whole situation (seriously, victimization and getting a Twilight-ish supernatural baby is the best they could do with her? Disappointed.) and would rather it never happened. I mean, yeah, her leaving opened the door for Shatterstar to return and become a darkhorse. But I think fans of the character and anti-fans alike probably hated the whole situation from X-Force.

I'm glad PAD didn't just pull a Dazzler and brush the whole thing under the table. But this demigod wolf-baby had better bring something interesting and entertaining to the table. (On the other hand, it's part Jotunn and sure to be pretty darn unpredictable with a bloodline like that.)

I was excited over X-Force at first, I love Vanisher. But the whole thing went pretty downhill for me pretty fast. Probably why I like X-Factor so much, PAD is so good at writing characters, they become the focus over the fighting/super powers/omg tragic stuff. Dropped that book like a hot potato. When I heard Wolfsbane was pregnant, my first reaction was the terror filled question, "Please tell me it isn't Ric's! D:" Once the guys at the shop told me the whole story, the groaning began. I'd like to pretend it didn't happen, but then she shoved her preggers all over my Ric and guh.

Still hoping that PAD is going to dispose of mongrel-baby as creatively as he did Siryn's.


And yes, Longshot was made of awesome this issue. Granted I loved his little posing victoriously on top of the fire hydrant last issue, but he really got to shine this issue. Was very fun to see!

[Alex A Sanchez]

The humor is typical PAD in this so I enjoyed it (though not Guido's joke about Shatterstar liking something that might go up his backside).

See, regardless of your approval of the joke, it was very consistent with Guido's characterization. Everyone's asking what he contributes to the team, and this is the answer. He represents that person unfamiliar with gay culture, and while he doesn't outright hate it, he's wary of it, confused by it, and doesn't trust it because it makes him uneasy. No one else on the team has the voice to carry this role.

Of course, Guido's roles on PAD's previous X-Factor team (the immature one, joker, party guy and ladies man) have sort of been filled by other members in the current X-Factor (Shatterstar, Jamie, Rictor, Longshot). So I can see where new X-Factor readers would not see his purpose. He's not used very often these days, but when he is, I feel he is used well.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Did anyone else catch PAD's throw-back reference to X-Factor #73? It's like Babette made another appearance (she's the personal masseuse that Guido had dancing on his back- one of the luxuries afforded him by his parent's death).

[Not_A_Zombie]

Yes, yes I did!

And I completely agree with your assesment of Guido's role. I thought that comment was funny, and completely in character.

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

AND the possibility of a competently written Thor! (Yeah, I know Hipster D-Bag Demi-Gawd Fraction is good on Solo hero books but that doesn't excuse that steaming pile we've been forced to acknowledge as Uncanny for the past few years)

Yeah, his Uncanny has been... not good, for the most part, but that has nothing to do with his Thor.

Which actually is pretty competently written.

[AcesX1X]

I'm just glad that Longshot got to be awesome for this issue. Seriously, how many of the 2 page, 4 panel Vegas win-fest pics were proposed cover ideas? Love me some Longshot. AND the possibility of a competently written Thor!

did you see all those women practically throwing themselves at him? it's like they couldn't help themselves.

[MartinRedmond]

They were after the money.:cool:

[Not_A_Zombie]

Vegas is full of beautiful women, but they rarely hang out at the craps tables. Longshot indeed.

[RuggeSkin]

did you see all those women practically throwing themselves at him? it's like they couldn't help themselves.

Gee, didn't PAD and all the others basically pimp slap you down onto the concrete when you tried to insinuate that in another thread that got locked after 20 pages when you and the guy with Old Bishop as his avatar couldn't make a coherent argument? Let's not do it again.

And as for Fraction's writing on Thor, I know it'll most likely be good, cause he's good at writing solo heroes. I'd kill to see him on Dr. Strange. Or some other hero that's fallen by the wayside recently. The Shroud maybe... Someone who could pull off a quirky supporting cast...

[Ayo]

See, regardless of your approval of the joke, it was very consistent with Guido's characterization. Everyone's asking what he contributes to the team, and this is the answer. He represents that person unfamiliar with gay culture, and while he doesn't outright hate it, he's wary of it, confused by it, and doesn't trust it because it makes him uneasy. No one else on the team has the voice to carry this role.

Without Guido, the whole thing falls apart.

[S'Cipio_66]

Did anyone else catch PAD's throw-back reference to X-Factor #73? It's like Babette made another appearance (she's the personal masseuse that Guido had dancing on his back- one of the luxuries afforded him by his parent's death).

Yes! It even looked like her. (As well as I can remember.) I was so hoping he'd call her by name.

Jamie, Guido, and Rahne are the soul of this team. None of them should ever be away. (Notice that X-Factor's "slow period" started right after Rahne left.)

-S'Cipio

[Regino]

Without Guido, the whole thing falls apart.

Guido is the most normal one in the group and that is saying something.

[gitdown]

I loved this issue! X-factor has a certain charm that the X-men lack. I'm not saying that the X-men don't have their moments. I missed them as a family and the focus on it's individuals. This book is the closest thing to it. It's so good to see these characters get some growth and development and all within a nice little adventure story.

Longshot rocked! I would love to be that dude in Vegas or even chill with him. The team looked like they were having a blast. "Best plan ever!"


love the throwback with Guido and his massage!

[always_crashing]

I enjoyed the hell out of Laupacchino's Amanda Conner-inspired art--my favorite since Raimondi left. I hope she sticks around awhile.

Also, Guido would be 100% more awesome if he started saying "blork" again.




.

[AcesX1X]

Gee, didn't PAD and all the others basically pimp slap you down onto the concrete when you tried to insinuate that in another thread that got locked after 20 pages when you and the guy with Old Bishop as his avatar couldn't make a coherent argument? Let's not do it again....

your memory is flawed in that regard.

[Legion_Quest]

They were in Vegas and Longshot was winning. Of course there were going to be girls throwing themselves at him, likely some guys as well.

The alluring scent of money is a damn strong one.

[AcesX1X]

i bet longshot "smells like" money.

[The Lucky One]

i bet longshot "smells like" money.

Y'ever see that movie "Michael"? Longshot smells like whatever that particular woman is most attracted to. Sometimes it's cinnamon rolls, sometimes it's a long day at the gym, sometimes it's money.

-D

[AcesX1X]

are you calling longshot an angel?

[The Lucky One]

are you calling longshot an angel?

Yeah, sort of. An exiled angel, anyway. His character concept is that he's the perfect man in an imperfect world. Y'gotta admit, that's a pretty angelic theme.

-D

[Alex A Sanchez]

Guido is the most normal one in the group and that is saying something.

This is a great observation. Back in the old days, he was the odd-ball (remember the bunny slippers he wore when meeting the President of Tran-sabal during the Hulk cross-over?). Complete role-reversal.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

X-Factor was the only X-Book I bought this week. The lack of Monet was depressing, but a fun read none the less. Hela is not amuse with Jamie and his gang.

[c.lei]

Madrox knowing something about X-Force is a pretty interesting twist. It makes me wonder just how much he actually knows (or thinks he knows), since most people didn't know the whole truth until Second Coming. Some information probably leaked during and after Necrosha, since they were more out in the open during that mess. But it will be interesting to see how that develops.

Also loved how everyone just assumes that a dupe got Rahne pregnant. :biggrin: I liked how it seems that a lot of this is Rictor's assumptions, since Rahne hasn't actually confirmed or denied it. While it doesn't make him happy, I have to wonder if maybe part of him wants it to be his baby. Both because he can't see Rahne being with anyone else in that time period (it probably makes her leaving hurt less, if he doesn't have to wonder about another guy) and also because he has daddy issues/a need to be needed. He clearly has some doubts, but is ignoring them in favor of keeping to this assumption. Still bad of Rahne to not kill that idea dead, but having them both partly responsible for this mess is more interesting then her simply lying.

And Shatterstar's handling of the situation is a nice touch, too. His running headlong into any fight he can find is a nice callback to the last time he had major on-panel relationship issues. (The airport incident back in Cable, anyone?)

Also: HOLY CRAP JANE FOSTER. I wonder if Thor is going to cameo in the final battle to help them against Hela. Either way, it was an awesome little extra.

Why are you guys assuming that's there's going to be a battle here?

if I understand the whole convulated mess, isn't Rahne carrying Hela's grandkid or something like that?

Though I hope Rictor mouths off at Hela, and she decides to squash him like the bisexual insect that he is....

[WingShot]

OK, I finally have some time to write down my impressions.

I loved this issue! It was just the right mixture of hilarious, serious and awesome. The art was excellent, too. Can Marvel keep Luppachino as the artist for X-Factor, pretty please? (or rotate her and Fiumara).

I loved little nods to the previous issues or the general Marvel universe (Longshot the Scrull, Longshot mentioning Mojoworld, Dr. Jane Foster and Don, etc.).

I do not subscribe to the Rahne hatefest. Yes, her actions right now are wrong on many levels, but it's hardly surprising that her recent "adventures" had left her more than a little messed up. Eating your own father and being left alone after the father of your child sacrificed himself to save you would do that to many. :tongue: I'm happy that PAD hadn't swept her problems under the rug.

Some fans seem to dislike Rahne for her potential to break up Rictor and Shatterstar - I might be wrong, but from where I stand, Rahne seems like she could potentially be the best thing that could happen to R/S.

1. On one hand, she highlights by comparison how well R/S work together.
- Shatterstar, though somewhat bloodthirsty by nature, turns gentle in Ric's close company, while Rahne Rahne nearly maimed the poor guy at least 2 times (and was under influence of the Terrigen crystals while she slept with Rictor, unless PAD changed his mind about this subplot).
- when Rahne charged at Star, the first thing Star did was to push Rictor out of the way, and the first thing Rictor did after getting on the scene was to check if Shatterstar was OK (although he's hardly a fragile cookie).
- Rahne didn't know what 'corazon' meant, Rictor and Shatterstar learned to speak each other's native languages fluently (speaking of which, it would be cool if their and/or Longshot's ability to speak Cadre Alliance was used by PAD sometime. They could communicate without other people understanding a word of what they say, as AFAIK no other person on Earth can speak Cadre).

2. On the other hand, Rahne could be a catalyst that starts the process of fixing the problems in Rictor and Shatterstar's relationship.

Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

Shatterstar, as I mentioned, needs to understand why doing stuff that can be interpreted as romantic advances is hurtful to Rictor, and that not always sharing is caring. ;) And it looks to me like like he got the memo the moment Rahne hugged Rictor, and is now working on deciphering it. He definitely looked out of sorts in this issue - even Guido noticed it.



No doubt that both Ric and Rahne have been through a lot and both deserve better than each other, IMO. I can live with Ric and Star not working out, they've clearly got their relationship problems and a lot to work out. I'm thrilled that they got to give it a go and maybe will get another go in the future, after Star has sewn his wild oats and maybe calmed down a bit (...)

Actually, I think that before Rahne's appearance Shatterstar was at his calmest. Look at his fight with the Thing - superficially it looked just like good ol' Star showing off - but he knew exactly when to butt in and when to make himself scarce. He didn't fight just for his own pleasure, but to protect his teammate and to draw attention away from Rictor and Jamie. When the Thing challenged him to fight as he was holding the portal open he listened to Jamie's order instead of accepting Ben's challenge (though he obviously wanted to). He was rather cordial to the people he met - including his rather hilarius "Sorry I tried to kill you" after Father Maddox yelled at him, Rictor and Guido.

Cue Rahne appearing to claim Rictor is her baby's daddy, and Star is not so nice anymore. He's not cooperative, he doesn't listen to orders, he picks up fights and beats up not only people who insulted him, but also their friends and innocent bystanders. His charge at Mr. Rotting Undead Viking reminded me a lot of his attack on the armed guy on the airport just after Rictor left him during their X-Force days.

I'm really looking forward to the next issue. Well, the next issues, actually, since it looks like it will take more than a few issues to resolve all the... issues... ;)

[worstblogever]

Though I hope Rictor mouths off at Hela, and she decides to squash him like the bisexual insect that he is....

What's wrong with being bisexual, exactly?

[M.I.Brooks]

I do not subscribe to the Rahne hatefest. Yes, her actions right now are wrong on many levels, but it's hardly surprising that her recent "adventures" had left her more than a little messed up. Eating your own father and being left alone after the father of your child sacrificed himself to save you would do that to many. I'm happy that PAD hadn't swept her problems under the rug.

Some fans seem to dislike Rahne for her potential to break up Rictor and Shatterstar - I might be wrong, but from where I stand, Rahne seems like she could potentially be the best thing that could happen to R/S.
I've never been a fan of Rahne's, but I really like what she's always brought to X-Factor. My dislike has nothing to do with her interfearance it the realationship. :D


Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).
It's nothing to really do with a moral high horse, he's just unable to talk about emotions because he's no good with them and they make him uncomfortable.

I'm pretty much the same way with emotions so what Rictor's doing is something I know all about.

[Koopa]

What's wrong with being bisexual, exactly?
i was going to ask what's wrong with being an insect.

[preppistonpav]

Wingshot, couldn't have described the current Rahne/Ric/'Star love-triangle better myself. It'll be interesting to see the lightbulb over 'Star's head click "on" when he realizes what jealousy as an emotion feels like and what it can make people do, and then when he realizes that Ric's been dealing with this a lot lately in their relationship.

Bring in Rahne this way was a pretty masterful stroke by PAD!

-Pav

[Omega Alpha]

i was going to ask what's wrong with being an insect.

Insects are not a minority, therefore they can be mocked and insulted.

[Alex A Sanchez]

OK, I finally have some time to write down my impressions.

I loved this issue! It was just the right mixture of hilarious, serious and awesome. The art was excellent, too. Can Marvel keep Luppachino as the artist for X-Factor, pretty please? (or rotate her and Fiumara).

I loved little nods to the previous issues or the general Marvel universe (Longshot the Scrull, Longshot mentioning Mojoworld, Dr. Jane Foster and Don, etc.).

I do not subscribe to the Rahne hatefest. Yes, her actions right now are wrong on many levels, but it's hardly surprising that her recent "adventures" had left her more than a little messed up. Eating your own father and being left alone after the father of your child sacrificed himself to save you would do that to many. :tongue: I'm happy that PAD hadn't swept her problems under the rug.

Some fans seem to dislike Rahne for her potential to break up Rictor and Shatterstar - I might be wrong, but from where I stand, Rahne seems like she could potentially be the best thing that could happen to R/S.

1. On one hand, she highlights by comparison how well R/S work together.
- Shatterstar, though somewhat bloodthirsty by nature, turns gentle in Ric's close company, while Rahne Rahne nearly maimed the poor guy at least 2 times (and was under influence of the Terrigen crystals while she slept with Rictor, unless PAD changed his mind about this subplot).
- when Rahne charged at Star, the first thing Star did was to push Rictor out of the way, and the first thing Rictor did after getting on the scene was to check if Shatterstar was OK (although he's hardly a fragile cookie).
- Rahne didn't know what 'corazon' meant, Rictor and Shatterstar learned to speak each other's native languages fluently (speaking of which, it would be cool if their and/or Longshot's ability to speak Cadre Alliance was used by PAD sometime. They could communicate without other people understanding a word of what they say, as AFAIK no other person on Earth can speak Cadre).

2. On the other hand, Rahne could be a catalyst that starts the process of fixing the problems in Rictor and Shatterstar's relationship.

Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

Shatterstar, as I mentioned, needs to understand why doing stuff that can be interpreted as romantic advances is hurtful to Rictor, and that not always sharing is caring. ;) And it looks to me like like he got the memo the moment Rahne hugged Rictor, and is now working on deciphering it. He definitely looked out of sorts in this issue - even Guido noticed it.




Actually, I think that before Rahne's appearance Shatterstar was at his calmest. Look at his fight with the Thing - superficially it looked just like good ol' Star showing off - but he knew exactly when to butt in and when to make himself scarce. He didn't fight just for his own pleasure, but to protect his teammate and to draw attention away from Rictor and Jamie. When the Thing challenged him to fight as he was holding the portal open he listened to Jamie's order instead of accepting Ben's challenge (though he obviously wanted to). He was rather cordial to the people he met - including his rather hilarius "Sorry I tried to kill you" after Father Maddox yelled at him, Rictor and Guido.

Cue Rahne appearing to claim Rictor is her baby's daddy, and Star is not so nice anymore. He's not cooperative, he doesn't listen to orders, he picks up fights and beats up not only people who insulted him, but also their friends and innocent bystanders. His charge at Mr. Rotting Undead Viking reminded me a lot of his attack on the armed guy on the airport just after Rictor left him during their X-Force days.

I'm really looking forward to the next issue. Well, the next issues, actually, since it looks like it will take more than a few issues to resolve all the... issues... ;)

Hella observative! Ya, that's a huge contrast in Shatterstar's behavior. And his irritability is totally intentional: I hadn't even noticed that PAD had thrown that in there. Totally something to watch.

[Koopa]

Cue Rahne appearing to claim Rictor is her baby's daddy, and Star is not so nice anymore. He's not cooperative, he doesn't listen to orders, he picks up fights and beats up not only people who insulted him, but also their friends and innocent bystanders. His charge at Mr. Rotting Undead Viking reminded me a lot of his attack on the armed guy on the airport just after Rictor left him during their X-Force days.


nice, i haven't even thought of that, but yeah, similar.

[The Lucky One]

What's wrong with being bisexual, exactly?

Pick a side!

I'm kidding, I have no problem with bisexuals. Dated one once, but never managed to parlay it into anything cool.

-D

[l2aven]

Doc Samson is dead?
Damn it ..

So much for my comic book pitch:"Doc Samson, superhero psychiatrist", featuring nothing but monthly therapy sessions gueststarring everyone else.

I would buy that book in a heartbeat. In Treatment: Marvel Universe Edition.

[harostar]

OK, I finally have some time to write down my impressions.

I loved this issue! It was just the right mixture of hilarious, serious and awesome. The art was excellent, too. Can Marvel keep Luppachino as the artist for X-Factor, pretty please? (or rotate her and Fiumara).

I loved little nods to the previous issues or the general Marvel universe (Longshot the Scrull, Longshot mentioning Mojoworld, Dr. Jane Foster and Don, etc.).

I do not subscribe to the Rahne hatefest. Yes, her actions right now are wrong on many levels, but it's hardly surprising that her recent "adventures" had left her more than a little messed up. Eating your own father and being left alone after the father of your child sacrificed himself to save you would do that to many. :tongue: I'm happy that PAD hadn't swept her problems under the rug.

Some fans seem to dislike Rahne for her potential to break up Rictor and Shatterstar - I might be wrong, but from where I stand, Rahne seems like she could potentially be the best thing that could happen to R/S.

1. On one hand, she highlights by comparison how well R/S work together.
- Shatterstar, though somewhat bloodthirsty by nature, turns gentle in Ric's close company, while Rahne Rahne nearly maimed the poor guy at least 2 times (and was under influence of the Terrigen crystals while she slept with Rictor, unless PAD changed his mind about this subplot).
- when Rahne charged at Star, the first thing Star did was to push Rictor out of the way, and the first thing Rictor did after getting on the scene was to check if Shatterstar was OK (although he's hardly a fragile cookie).
- Rahne didn't know what 'corazon' meant, Rictor and Shatterstar learned to speak each other's native languages fluently (speaking of which, it would be cool if their and/or Longshot's ability to speak Cadre Alliance was used by PAD sometime. They could communicate without other people understanding a word of what they say, as AFAIK no other person on Earth can speak Cadre).

2. On the other hand, Rahne could be a catalyst that starts the process of fixing the problems in Rictor and Shatterstar's relationship.

Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

Shatterstar, as I mentioned, needs to understand why doing stuff that can be interpreted as romantic advances is hurtful to Rictor, and that not always sharing is caring. ;) And it looks to me like like he got the memo the moment Rahne hugged Rictor, and is now working on deciphering it. He definitely looked out of sorts in this issue - even Guido noticed it.




Actually, I think that before Rahne's appearance Shatterstar was at his calmest. Look at his fight with the Thing - superficially it looked just like good ol' Star showing off - but he knew exactly when to butt in and when to make himself scarce. He didn't fight just for his own pleasure, but to protect his teammate and to draw attention away from Rictor and Jamie. When the Thing challenged him to fight as he was holding the portal open he listened to Jamie's order instead of accepting Ben's challenge (though he obviously wanted to). He was rather cordial to the people he met - including his rather hilarius "Sorry I tried to kill you" after Father Maddox yelled at him, Rictor and Guido.

Cue Rahne appearing to claim Rictor is her baby's daddy, and Star is not so nice anymore. He's not cooperative, he doesn't listen to orders, he picks up fights and beats up not only people who insulted him, but also their friends and innocent bystanders. His charge at Mr. Rotting Undead Viking reminded me a lot of his attack on the armed guy on the airport just after Rictor left him during their X-Force days.

I'm really looking forward to the next issue. Well, the next issues, actually, since it looks like it will take more than a few issues to resolve all the... issues... ;)

I could not have said this any better myself. People seem to be so concerned that Rahne is going to break them up, but I honestly believe she could be the best thing for them. Because, as you stated so well, this will provide a powerful contrast between the two relationships. And most importantly, it has the potential to teach Shatterstar about jealousy and insecurity, two things that Rictor has been experiencing. Things that he needs to be able to comprehend and empathize with for the sake of their relationship.

[feralgibs]

Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

Shatterstar, as I mentioned, needs to understand why doing stuff that can be interpreted as romantic advances is hurtful to Rictor, and that not always sharing is caring. ;) And it looks to me like like he got the memo the moment Rahne hugged Rictor, and is now working on deciphering it. He definitely looked out of sorts in this issue - even Guido noticed it.




Actually, I think that before Rahne's appearance Shatterstar was at his calmest. Look at his fight with the Thing - superficially it looked just like good ol' Star showing off - but he knew exactly when to butt in and when to make himself scarce. He didn't fight just for his own pleasure, but to protect his teammate and to draw attention away from Rictor and Jamie. When the Thing challenged him to fight as he was holding the portal open he listened to Jamie's order instead of accepting Ben's challenge (though he obviously wanted to). He was rather cordial to the people he met - including his rather hilarius "Sorry I tried to kill you" after Father Maddox yelled at him, Rictor and Guido.

Cue Rahne appearing to claim Rictor is her baby's daddy, and Star is not so nice anymore. He's not cooperative, he doesn't listen to orders, he picks up fights and beats up not only people who insulted him, but also their friends and innocent bystanders. His charge at Mr. Rotting Undead Viking reminded me a lot of his attack on the armed guy on the airport just after Rictor left him during their X-Force days.

I'm really looking forward to the next issue. Well, the next issues, actually, since it looks like it will take more than a few issues to resolve all the... issues... ;)

I don't think Ric is on a high horse, he just gets hurt and jumps to conclusions and gets pissed. When he gets pissed, he starts throwing temper tantrums. I think it is much more his freaking out that things are not going his way and just shutting down than any kind of high horse thing. It is immature and counter-productive, which is why he and Rahne never seem to work out. They both do the same thing, get mad/scared and drop things... Shatterstar chased after Ric and made him talk about it so they could work it out.

I had previously commented on how different Star was this issue. Yeah he was all grins during his fights, but he was just itching to pick them, which we have not seen in a long time. Even at the air port when Ric was leaving X-Force he was much more calm about his swords being taken. Now a comment about his star tat is setting him off? Yeah, I think the man is bothered.

I do agree, I think that Rahne could be a great tool to cement their relationship, as I've said before. She is an utter contrast to Shatterstar right now, he is upbeat and rather naive, she is brooding, sulking and manipulative. Shatterstar is honest to a fault and willing to communicate and work things out, Rhane last ran off with a "dear John" note and has now returned being a... deceptive (expletives deleted).

No doubt, it's all very well written. PAD is dragging up more drama than a soap opera and I'm surely emotionally involved. Doesn't mean I don't want Wolfsbane to burn, just means I want her to burn more, and longer, while forever suffering from acid reflux/ingestion from eating daddy. Especially after this issue, I feel much better that she's here to cement Ric and Star rather than break them up, but my paranoia over her being PAD's little pet pooch is keeping me from being entirely optimistic.

[M.I.Brooks]

I don't think Ric is on a high horse, he just gets hurt and jumps to conclusions and gets pissed. When he gets pissed, he starts throwing temper tantrums. I think it is much more his freaking out that things are not going his way and just shutting down than any kind of high horse thing. It is immature and counter-productive, which is why he and Rahne never seem to work out. They both do the same thing, get mad/scared and drop things... Shatterstar chased after Ric and made him talk about it so they could work it out.

I had previously commented on how different Star was this issue. Yeah he was all grins during his fights, but he was just itching to pick them, which we have not seen in a long time. Even at the air port when Ric was leaving X-Force he was much more calm about his swords being taken. Now a comment about his star tat is setting him off? Yeah, I think the man is bothered.

I do agree, I think that Rahne could be a great tool to cement their relationship, as I've said before. She is an utter contrast to Shatterstar right now, he is upbeat and rather naive, she is brooding, sulking and manipulative. Shatterstar is honest to a fault and willing to communicate and work things out, Rhane last ran off with a "dear John" note and has now returned being a... deceptive (expletives deleted).

No doubt, it's all very well written. PAD is dragging up more drama than a soap opera and I'm surely emotionally involved. Doesn't mean I don't want Wolfsbane to burn, just means I want her to burn more, and longer, while forever suffering from acid reflux/ingestion from eating daddy. Especially after this issue, I feel much better that she's here to cement Ric and Star rather than break them up, but my paranoia over her being PAD's little pet pooch is keeping me from being entirely optimistic.
Why is everyone better at saying what I want to say much better than I coulde ever hope to?

[sidekick77]

Rictor, IMHO, needs to get off his moral high horse and stop shutting Shatterstar down whenever he starts talking about emotions. Star seems to be quite willing to listen to Rictor ("That's what I need you for (...) [to tell me] "how I should feel"). Of all the people he should know the best how culturally misplaced Star is. It would make more sense to help Star understand why his actions are hurtful and potentially harmful than to throw a sulk (mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

Shatterstar, as I mentioned, needs to understand why doing stuff that can be interpreted as romantic advances is hurtful to Rictor, and that not always sharing is caring. ;) And it looks to me like like he got the memo the moment Rahne hugged Rictor, and is now working on deciphering it. He definitely looked out of sorts in this issue - even Guido noticed it.


I agree with alot of your points, but before we write off Shatterstar as a babe in the woods with only good intentions, he's not without his moments of insight or contributations to the problems that arise between him and Ric. In fact, the examples you cited above occur from one dialogue, in one issue--which takes place an entire year after Star is reintroduced--but is the only time they truly hash out their relationship.

In between that, nothing much gets said over how they should be together. Alot was going on and the one moment they come up for air happens in the Nation-X event. In that scene, Star is openly flirting, Rictor is equally letting his jealousy and confusion show, and its clear from the dialogue that there has been no comminication on what's going on in Shatterstar's head, which leaves Ric to flounder in his insecurities.

Basically, Star opens the subject by confronting Ric's jealousy, and Ric [unconvincingly] counters that he's not. Star then, makes a strangely poignant observation that he knows that his friend's insecurities stem from him losing his powers and having anyone he's ever cared about leave him. Ric is momentarily startled by this analytical version of Star, but unfortunately the discussion goes no further. They get interrupted by Tabitha... ... who 'Star proceeds to kiss, awkwardly adding fuel to the mounting miscommunication.

So even from the narrative of Shatterstar, he understands that Rictor's feelings are not a moral high ground issue. Rather that 1) its a 'needs meeting needs' thing [or needs not meeting needs thing] and that 2) for anything to be resolved, it has to be talked about. I think both of them finally get it now... or maybe it was always the natural conclusion that they would hash it out given enough time, and issue #207 was it.

Ironically, this is when Rahne reappears, but like yourself, I don't see her as being a huge problem to their relationship. As I touched on above, I think its their internal issues that pose a greater possible divide. Every person has core needs that have to be met in order to be happy or fulfilled in a relationship. Its natural and not something you can really fault the other for. Right now, Ric and Shatterstar's emotional needs are at complete ends of the spectrum, and while its great that they are compromising enough to navigate this until they work it out, its not something that can carry on indefinitely, unless Ric decides that he no longer desires a monogamous relationship.



(mildly hypocritically, since it looks like Rictor and Shatterstar weren't completely broken up when the former slept with Rahne).

I'd be interested in seeing where this is indicated, since the when/where of their start is still a mystery to me--I would guess it was X-Force Annual '99 where they shared rooms in Mexico--however, nothing's been confirmed and since then, there has been no explanation as to why they went their separate ways.

During the ten year gap, Ric was briefly seen working X-Corps in Paris before M-Day and Star was fighting for money in the arenas in Madripoor. If I recall right, Madripoor is one of the places Rictor will not go to or use his powers, deliberate or accidental, due to the unstable tectonics of the island. Even after M-Day, Star teamed up with Domino on some SHEILD backed missions. I'd be surpised if they were simply on a break given the amount of distance and complete independant sphere they were both operating in.

[Treefrog]

[QUOTE=harostar;11887867]Madrox knowing something about X-Force is a pretty interesting twist.

I would love to see X-factor investigate X-force. And I don't mean investigate as much as clobber them.

[drownedbyimmolation]

*Hyperventilates*

My two favorite corners of Marvel looking to collide, this is great.

Issue was as cool and fun as usual. So many cool moments in one book.

Not really much more that I can say other than this is my favorite book. (wish there was more Monet though)

[Terry121]

This might simply be me but, what happened to Monet? I mean she doesn't even appear in this issue.

[drownedbyimmolation]

This might simply be me but, what happened to Monet? I mean she doesn't even appear in this issue.



No its me too.

I think... she is... allergic to Las Vegas. Yes, thats the most logical explanation.

[c.lei]

[QUOTE=harostar;11887867]Madrox knowing something about X-Force is a pretty interesting twist.

I would love to see X-factor investigate X-force. And I don't mean investigate as much as clobber them.

X-factor clobber X-force? Dude X-factor would be lucky to *SURVIVE* the experience especially with Deadpool and Fantomex, both of whom would kill the pair of assholes called Rictor and Shatterstar without a second thought.

Wade would kill Madox,dupe or not on sight for daring to knock up his Theresa.....

[M.I.Brooks]

X-factor clobber X-force? Dude X-factor would be lucky to *SURVIVE* the experience especially with Deadpool and Fantomex, both of whom would kill the pair of assholes called Rictor and Shatterstar without a second thought.

Wade would kill Madox,dupe or not on sight for daring to knock up his Theresa.....
Wrong X-Force. They meant the one just before "Uncanny X-Force", the one Wolfsbane was apart of.

Also, you may want to watch your tone, you never know when the Mods. will be watching. :P

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

Wrong X-Force. They meant the one just before "Uncanny X-Force", the one Wolfsbane was apart of.

Also, you may want to watch your tone, you never know when the Mods. will be watching. :P

Didn't really see anything inflammatory there, to be fair. :confused:

[drownedbyimmolation]

Monet would rock X-Force's socks off all by herself! :biggrin:

[M.I.Brooks]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;11906933']Didn't really see anything inflammatory there, to be fair. :confused:
The dumbest thing's have been ticking me off these past through days, but the post just came off a bit harsh to me for whatever reason. :)


Monet would rock X-Force's socks off all by herself! :biggrin:
Too true. :D

[doctormistermaster]

[QUOTE=Treefrog;11906427]

X-factor clobber X-force? Dude X-factor would be lucky to *SURVIVE* the experience especially with Deadpool and Fantomex, both of whom would kill the pair of assholes called Rictor and Shatterstar without a second thought.

Wade would kill Madox,dupe or not on sight for daring to knock up his Theresa.....

I feel more or less the opposite of you in this regard X-Factor has a larger team that has a vast array of power sets, although I don't think it would be 100% one sided I do think that X-Factor would go home with the win.

I also just wanted to add I am happy that Rahne is back and all the members of this volume of X-Factor are on the team at the same time... now for the Drama :tongue:

[MartinRedmond]

Deadpool, Fantomex and Wolverine aren't really good soldiers, they all have healing powers which they abuse so much is the only reason they survive fights. It's like someone playing a videogame with infinite health cheats on. X-Factor already knows this, so they'd go in a fight prepared. It's not like X-Force would be fighting their usual hoarde of generic canon fodder soldiers with no IQ.

[darknessatnoon]

lol @ Madrox implying Rahne is acting like a drama queen. Maybe he should get a heroin addiction, get knocked up with a litter of puppies, eat a parent and lose his true love. Madrox is great because it's always nice to have an x-leader who can legitimately make Cyclops look smart.

[darknessatnoon]

Are we meant to believe that as Princess of Latveria that Layla Miller doesn't have ready access to the top fashions from across the planet?

[WingShot]

I don't think Ric is on a high horse, he just gets hurt and jumps to conclusions and gets pissed. When he gets pissed, he starts throwing temper tantrums.

I'm sorry, it seems I used a wrong idiom. :redface: English is not my native language, and despite my best attempts I still make mistakes. This is exactly what I wanted to say; that Rictor jumps to conclusions based on ingrained cultural and social norms and reacts with anger.

Which is, by the way, an excellent example of how easy it is to get oneself into a cultural misunderstanding. :) From the strong reaction that some of you had to the phrase "to get off high moral horse" I assume that it carries strong negative connotations; while the dictionary explanation in my native language sounds rather neutral to mildly negative.

This is a problem that Shatterstar has, IMHO. He's fairly intelligent and able to master languages quickly, which gives other people the impression that he can understand them without problems. However, I have a feeling that while his lexical and grammatical competence is equal to that of a native speaker, his sociolinguistic competence, crudely speaking, sucks, and his understanding of concepts such as relationships, appropriateness, reality vs. entertainment, private vs. public space, etc. is completely skewed.



I agree with alot of your points, but before we write off Shatterstar as a babe in the woods with only good intentions, he's not without his moments of insight or contributations to the problems that arise between him and Ric. In fact, the examples you cited above occur from one dialogue, in one issue--which takes place an entire year after Star is reintroduced--but is the only time they truly hash out their relationship.

Oh, I think Shatterstar is far from guiltless. It's just that his contributions to the relationship problems are much more visible (fuelling Rictor's jealousy and poking his wounds by speaking about his abandonment issues too bluntly) and I've seen people blame him for all the issues between him and Rictor, so I felt it was redundant to bring them up again.
What's more, while Star has his issues, he's willing to work through them together. Rictor, OTOH, left Shatterstar twice. And if he was not there to tell Shatterstar how to act and left him to learn human behaviour from TV, Cable (lol), X-Force team and the Mojopeople then perhaps he shouldn't be surprised that the final product turned out weird-ish.

I totally get that Rictor has emotionall issues, and without them he wouldn't be Rictor and perhaps Shatterstar wouldn't be attracted to him in the first place. But the fact is, he isn't helping Shatterstar much to learn what the heck he does wrong as far as relationships are concerned. And perhaps this is why introducing Rahne might be a good thing for both of them - but about that I wrote in my previous post. :smile:

[WingShot]

I'd be interested in seeing where this is indicated, since the when/where of their start is still a mystery to me--I would guess it was X-Force Annual '99 where they shared rooms in Mexico--however, nothing's been confirmed and since then, there has been no explanation as to why they went their separate ways.

During the ten year gap, Ric was briefly seen working X-Corps in Paris before M-Day and Star was fighting for money in the arenas in Madripoor. If I recall right, Madripoor is one of the places Rictor will not go to or use his powers, deliberate or accidental, due to the unstable tectonics of the island. Even after M-Day, Star teamed up with Domino on some SHEILD backed missions. I'd be surpised if they were simply on a break given the amount of distance and complete independant sphere they were both operating in.

Unfortunately, we can only speculate what happened between Shatterstar and Rictor after their time in Mexico. On the Real Life level it's pretty clear - the characters got into the hands of the writers who were not interested in portraying them as a couple or even in exploring their friendship. Shatterstar as a character got reset to the killing machine he was portrayed as before meeting Rictor. One tidbit we get from the bios in X-Factor #200 is that Rictor was the one to leave Shatterstar, who was left wandering "aimlessly" until he arrived in Madripoor and briefly engaged in arena-style fights for sport.

My personal interpretation is as follows:

Rictor was attracted to Star soon after they met, but he was not accepting this part of himself at that time. He was pretending to himself and others that what he feels is just friendship and perhaps playing up his machismo to compensate. He might have felt 'safe' as long as Shatterstar didn't seem to be interested in emotional or carnal relationships, but the talk they had at the club made him aware of Shatterstar as a sexual being (pardon the awkward phrase) and perhaps even suspect/know that Shatterstar is sharing his feelings. He still does not accept himself a bisexual (or at least doesn't want to come out), so when Cable suggests linking the team telepathically Rictor bolts to Mexico, freaked out that his closet is about to turn transparent (in addition to his other worries re: telepathic link with Cable).

Shatterstar is somebody I see as emotinally stunted because of the environment he grew up in. I don't think he'd have problems identifying himself as gay, bi-sexual or whatever - but he probably had problems accepting that he experienced emotional needs of any kind, fearing that those emotions would make him weaker, make him act irrationally or make him lose control over his mind and body. (His fears aren't unfounded, either: each time Rictor left him behind or there was a risk of it happening Star became unhinged, turning from a great strategist into a brawler mindlessly charging into the nearest available source of danger.) I think he became aware of his feelings for Rictor shortly after the talk after Rictor took him clubbling, but was "too stubborn to admit it".(X-Force #56)

I think the got together either during the Benjamin Russel mess or during their stay in Mexico.

What made them part their ways and was it a break up or a temporary split?

Let's start with "why".

I could see Star still being emotionaly guarded and not understanding his emotions completely, and Rictor interpreting Star's actions in a wrong way. I could imagine Rictor wanting some sort of assurance - that Shatterstar needs him, cares for him, loves him - and Shatterstar being genuinely unable to answer those questions because a) his grasp of human emotions and the vocabulary related with them still sucked and/or b) he was still afraid that succumbing to emotions might make him weaker. This, of course, would fuel Rictor's insecurity and his fears of being left behind. "What if Shatterstar doesn't love me? What if he's only with me because it's convenient? What if he dumps me the moment somebody better than me shows up?" I could see Rictor getting tired of living in insecurity and suggesting that they better split up until Shatterstar gets a hold of his emotions ("There's no point in us being together if you can't even tell if you love me!") and Star, unable to argue with the logic, agreeing to that.

Shatterstar, hurt by Rictor leaving him behind yet again, would try to get rid of the emotions that caused him pain, thus reverting to his 'killing machine' personality. He would try engaging into arena fights in Madripoor, he would try to lose himself in training with monks and missions with his old teammates, finally he'd travel back to Mojo in hope that this will help him regain the control of his emotions. When everything fails and his thoughts keep on coming back to Rictor, he'd give up and decide to seek him out again. Enter Cortex.

Rictor'd try to live his normal life, perhaps intentionally avoiding Star to give him time to sort himself out. And then the M-Day happens and Rictor loses his powers. If he felt insecure before, losing his powers surely wouldn't help. I could see him thinking that Shatterstar would no longer want to be involved with him - Star, after all, is a proud warrior who's not very impressed with weak people. Thinking he lost everything - his powers and his chance for love - he tries to off himself. His worries take the back seat when Star returns and snogs the hell out of him. Simulteanously, Rictor starts to regain the faith in himself and finds fulfillment in working as a detective, so by #207 he can stand up to Shatterstar when it comes to the use of guns and coerce out a shooting lesson out of him.

And now for the second question: was it a break up or a temporary split?

This is a more difficult question, because I have little more than my gut instinct to go with. My gut instinct leans towards "temporary", though.

Things that speak to my gut:

1. Shatterstar's actions. We saw the way he behaved when 1) Rictor temporarily left him behind with a promise to go back, 2) a threat to his relationship with Rictor appeared. In both cases Star's reaction can be described as something between "reckless stupidity" and "attempted assisted suicide". His actions after he and Rictor parted ways post-Mexico aren't as reckless. He tried arena-style fights in Madripoor, did some missions with Cable and Domino, trained with monks and went back to the Mojoworld - it seems to me like he tried to go back to his roots, to figure out who he is and how he feels about himself, about fighting and about Rictor. I think that if Rictor truly left him for good Star would attempt something more drastic - like stabbing Hulk in the left buttock or dancing on the Punisher's family grave.
2. How easily and quickly they snap back into a relationship after Star reappears. I could see the kiss itself being just a result of the relief that they managed, well, not to kill each other, but it's more than that - their body language and the instant protectiveness they display towards one another suggest to me that they parted on amicable terms (so to speak). I think that if they broke up copletely, there would have to be a reason for that, and it seems pretty unrealistic to me that it would not be adressed not only before getting involved together again, but throughout the entire year (in RL) that passed since then.
3. Rictor's reaction to Jamie's "You wouldn't want to make Shatterstar jealous". It seemed to me like a slack-jawed "How for the love of anything that has ever been Holy did you know about that?!" type of reaction. I think that if they were truly broken up for good, the feelings of anger or forced indifference ("Who the hell cares how he feels!" if Rictor believed Star was to be blamed for the break up) or hurt (if he believed they were both equally to blame, or blamed himself) would show up somewhere in Rictor's expression.

Each of those reasons might not be very strong on their own, but combined together they are stong enough to convince my gut at least. ;)

And wow, you can tell that I was seriously bored today, can't you... I had to split my post into two to be able to post it. :redface:

[feralgibs]

I'm sorry, it seems I used a wrong idiom. :redface: English is not my native language, and despite my best attempts I still make mistakes. This is exactly what I wanted to say; that Rictor jumps to conclusions based on ingrained cultural and social norms and reacts with anger.

Which is, by the way, an excellent example of how easy it is to get oneself into a cultural misunderstanding. :) From the strong reaction that some of you had to the phrase "to get off high moral horse" I assume that it carries strong negative connotations; while the dictionary explanation in my native language sounds rather neutral to mildly negative.

This is a problem that Shatterstar has, IMHO. He's fairly intelligent and able to master languages quickly, which gives other people the impression that he can understand them without problems. However, I have a feeling that while his lexical and grammatical competence is equal to that of a native speaker, his sociolinguistic competence, crudely speaking, sucks, and his understanding of concepts such as relationships, appropriateness, reality vs. entertainment, private vs. public space, etc. is completely skewed.


Was not at all upset or angry by your statement, just taking part in a discussion. :D And I have tremendous respect for non-native English speakers, especially when they are more articulate and able to express themselves more clearly than many natives. ;p If it's any help a "moral high horse" would be more like.... what Rhane does. >.> It would be more like talking down to someone because you know you are right, if that helps explain the reactions you got.

I think Ric does just what you just described, jumps to a conclusion, gets pissed off about it and throws a tantrum. He reacts out of hurt, anger or a feeling of betrayal. Ric is a pretty poor communicator, and when you combine that fact with Shatterstar's somewhat lacking ability to understand, much less describe, his own emotions, you end up with messes like in #207. That said, Ric and Rhane constantly ended up in similar situations, only unlike Shatterstar, Rahne ran herself and did not confront the problem, while Shatterstar forced Ric to at least try and communicate with him.

I fully agree! I think Shatterstar is seriously lacking not only in his ability to communicate his emotions, but in his ability to understand them. Sure he can pick up the language fast, but trying to explain "love" or "jealousy" to him could be as difficult as trying to describe "red" to a blind man. He's never experienced it, and while he may have access to words, he does not know how to apply them that well.

Shatty is still figuring himself out, and as he said himself, he is not entirely sure what he should feel, and wants Ric to help him understand. He is also a showman, made to be in the spotlight, so why should he find three, four or even five-somes wrong, taboo or strange? The more the merrier, right? He is very much an alien to this culture as well as to his own emotions. Put those two things together and you get a guy who open-mouth kisses people to say hello. Why not, it feels good, right? I actually quite enjoy his awkwardness and his openness. Might not be great for his relationship, but it makes things interesting and leaves a lot of room for him to grow and mature in that respect.

Also... WingShot? You are awesome. That is all.

[WingShot]

Thank you, feralgibs! :smile: You might want to reconsider your high opinion of me, though, because, uhm, I sort of missed a clue. And by "clue" I mean a fecking billboard, it was that obvious.

I just took a look at Star's bio in #200, and what was the first sentence my eyes fell upon?

"When Cortex was otherwise distracted, Shatterstar's mind returned and seeing Rictor, gave him a passionate kiss, revealing their long-hidden relationship."

So I guess I was right and they had not split up prior to The Kiss. Uhm. I guess I should be happy my instincts were right, but I mostly feel like a twit for producing a 1200 words reply when one sentence would suffice! :redface: I have no idea how I missed that part of Star's bio - I guess I got distracted by the shiny Power Grid below.
*facepalming forever*

[feralgibs]

Thank you, feralgibs! :smile: You might want to reconsider your high opinion of me, though, because, uhm, I sort of missed a clue. And by "clue" I mean a fecking billboard, it was that obvious.

I just took a look at Star's bio in #200, and what was the first sentence my eyes fell upon?

"When Cortex was otherwise distracted, Shatterstar's mind returned and seeing Rictor, gave him a passionate kiss, revealing their long-hidden relationship."

So I guess I was right and they had not split up prior to The Kiss. Uhm. I guess I should be happy my instincts were right, but I mostly feel like a twit for producing a 1200 words reply when one sentence would suffice! :redface: I have no idea how I missed that part of Star's bio - I guess I got distracted by the shiny Power Grid below.
*facepalming forever*

With as much as Shatty's been retconned (should I be a super mean person and say "fixed" just for giggles?) it's hard to keep track. Hey even with that statement, I was happy later on when Ric told Guido that he and Star happened long before he and Rhane. Given the recent fuckwitarry of one particular person who I shall not name by name to avoid opening a whole can of worms which really needs to stay closed, in-character comments are much more powerful than "what happened so far" narratives. At least I think so.

[WingShot]

In-characters comments are definitely preferable!

My goal, however, was to reply to sidekick77's inquiry, who, in reply to a statement in one of my previous posts, asked if it was indicated anywhere whether Rictor and Shatterstar broke up with each other or merely went their separate paths for some time for one reason or another. I feel that as an answer one canon sentence works better than 2 pages worth of fanwank, even if the fanwank turns out to be accurate. :redface: If they had broken up, I guess the bio would say "resuming their relationship", or whatever, not "revealing".

I found the bio pretty accurate, actually, no attempts at ret-con or anything. Just summarizing what happened, and sort of shrugging helplessly over the whole Ben Russel mess. Very useful although I think Marvel should update some of the characters statistics and personal info.

[feralgibs]

In-characters comments are definitely preferable!

My goal, however, was to reply to sidekick77's inquiry, who, in reply to a statement in one of my previous posts, asked if it was indicated anywhere whether Rictor and Shatterstar broke up with each other or merely went their separate paths for some time for one reason or another. I feel that as an answer one canon sentence works better than 2 pages worth of fanwank, even if the fanwank turns out to be accurate. :redface: If they had broken up, I guess the bio would say "resuming their relationship", or whatever, not "revealing".

I found the bio pretty accurate, actually, no attempts at ret-con or anything. Just summarizing what happened, and sort of shrugging helplessly over the whole Ben Russel mess. Very useful although I think Marvel should update some of the characters statistics and personal info.

Well, I could see it going either way. I mean, their relationship was pretty urban-legend for a long time. I mean how long did we go "Are they? Aren't they?? Answer us, Marvel!" and not get an answer... or at least not a solid answer? You can reveal that you were in a relationship that's now over, so long as the relationship was secret. And it was pretty secret I think, especially as that seems to be the big reason for Ric's freakout when Cable threatens to mind link them.

Language: Such a complex creature.

[harostar]

Here's what I've gathered from the #200 bios and things we've been told.

Rictor and Shatterstar, as of X-Factor, had been broken up. Or taking a break from things, whatever. But they were clearly not together, having spent over a year away from one another doing their own things. Rictor pursues Rahne without any hesitation, which suggests that he wasn't attached at the time. I gathered from #200's bio that Rictor left Shatterstar for whatever reason -- this explains the deep depression Shatterstar is suffering from in his god-awful limited series.

But clearly, neither one of them has moved on from that previous relationship. Shatterstar's return reignites things between them, though it seems they haven't really settled on what exactly they are. Since they share a room and a bed, we can safely assume that they're intimate, but Rictor seems uncertain as to what exactly he is to Shatterstar. So they're involved, but not really placing a label on it yet.

Rictor, it seems, has a bad habit of revisiting previous relationships.

[FanboyStranger]

This is a problem that Shatterstar has, IMHO. He's fairly intelligent and able to master languages quickly, which gives other people the impression that he can understand them without problems. However, I have a feeling that while his lexical and grammatical competence is equal to that of a native speaker, his sociolinguistic competence, crudely speaking, sucks, and his understanding of concepts such as relationships, appropriateness, reality vs. entertainment, private vs. public space, etc. is completely skewed.

:

I think you have just explained Shatterstar better than he's been explained in any comic.

[M.I.Brooks]

Here's what I've gathered from the #200 bios and things we've been told.

Rictor and Shatterstar, as of X-Factor, had been broken up. Or taking a break from things, whatever. But they were clearly not together, having spent over a year away from one another doing their own things. Rictor pursues Rahne without any hesitation, which suggests that he wasn't attached at the time. I gathered from #200's bio that Rictor left Shatterstar for whatever reason -- this explains the deep depression Shatterstar is suffering from in his god-awful limited series.

But clearly, neither one of them has moved on from that previous relationship. Shatterstar's return reignites things between them, though it seems they haven't really settled on what exactly they are. Since they share a room and a bed, we can safely assume that they're intimate, but Rictor seems uncertain as to what exactly he is to Shatterstar. So they're involved, but not really placing a label on it yet.

Rictor, it seems, has a bad habit of revisiting previous relationships.
Did the mini happen before or after M-Day storywise?

[Justin K.]

I finally got my issue! :biggrin:
and, I LOVED IT!

[harostar]

Did the mini happen before or after M-Day storywise?

Before, since the X-Force and self-titled minis came out in 2004 and 2005, respectively. That was about a year before M-Day, and something that significant would have surely been mentioned.

[M.I.Brooks]

Before, since the X-Force and self-titled minis came out in 2004 and 2005, respectively. That was about a year before M-Day, and something that significant would have surely been mentioned.
Fair enough, thanks.