Secret Origin compared to other origins

[Daybreak_st]

Now that Secret Origin is complete what did you think? Was it as fulfilling as you expected? Disappointing? How would you compare it with other origin stories, like Man of Steel and Birthright?

I’d love to see a follow up to secret origin with an artist as talented as Gary Frank. I felt like the conclusion was a little rushed, people all rally to Superman’s side b/c he fights Metallo who I guess is endangering the public (it’s stated in the comic but other than being reckless I didn’t really see how). Also does the military now give up on Superman or do they continue to be a thorn in his side? Since that was a new wrinkle in his history I was surprised with the way it was left. I doubt a few civilians interveneing would make the military all of a sudden decide to give up on him or stop being suspicious. Also I was a little disappointed with how little time Lex Luthor actually got. And what was the point of showing him as a kid if we only see small tidbits of him as an adult?

It was good, fun read but I can’t help but feel like the majority of both Clark and lex’s character development took place when they were kids. That’s when we saw the important parts of Clark, his interaction with his parents, his confusion/concerns etc. Not once when he’s an adult do we see the “real” Clark, not in the superman suit and not in disguise mode. So that was a little disappointing for me.

The best part of the whole comic which I think Johns knocked out of the park was Lois Lane! Loved her!!! IT was great how they showed that she saw through Clark disguise and I really enjoyed how friendly she was in general. She was written as a very likable character, something that I felt was missing from Man of Steel. I just loved all of her scenes both with Clark and with Superman. Johns knows Lois Lane and writes her better than I’ve possibly ever seen.

Jimmy being Superman’s pal was also handled pretty well.

Overall I enjoyed it but a few questions remain. Such as what was up with Lana when they were young, it’s like she was almost throwing herself at Clark, being really flirtatious. What was Johns trying to imply? Is that why it never worked out with her and Clark, b/c he saw her as too forward or flirtatious? I don’t know, it just felt too odd to me. Especially to not have any follow up with her as an adult or even later in her teens.
I loved issue one the most, really well done, still have mixed feelings about Superboy as I feel like that idea services the legion more so than helping the development of Superman.

Birthright is still my favorite origin so far. For me it was those first two issues that clenched it. It showed the most personality and character development to an adult Clark kent than I’ve ever seen. Also I loved the development of his costume, his interaction with his parents, and for the best realization of his three personas, the real Clark with his parents, Superman tough, strong with a little golden age swagger, and metropolis Clark, not over-the-top goofy but quiet and a little clumsy. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
Also enjoyed Man of Steel and thought it did the best job of rewriting the origin then reintegrating it into the then current DCU. I’ve still never seen it handled that well. Like now with the idea that the military was out to get Superman from the start, where else has that been reference other than the new krypton arc? Also in Man of Steel didn’t like how they handled lana. I don’t mind Clark disappointing her but I thought they went out of their way to show her looking a little ragged and broken when he sees her as an adult, and I didn’t care for that. I like the way lana is currently being depicted in Supergirl.

In my mind Superman’s origin is a mix between SO and Birthright. The first issue of SO happened, but I’d ignore costume part and simply say that’s when he found the Kryptonian book from Birthright. I’d that would be followed up by the first two issues of Birthright showing a 25 year old Clark trying to find his place in the world. He make the costume and approach his identity the same as in Birthright. The his appearance in Metropolis would be a mix of Birthright and SO, with Lex playing a more vital role rather than General Lane. Instead of the alien invasion I’d possibly use the Metallo aspect but minus the big “military hates Superman” angle. Also the SO lois would be the one I went with.

The only thing I’d really take from Man of Steel is how well they integrated it all back into current continuity and showed the passing of time until Superman had been around a few years and picked up the regular series from that point on. At least that’s how it works in my head :wink:

[dumbstruck]

SO was awful. Among the worst Superman stories I've read. A nice capper to the equally awful New Krypton saga.

[Death Itself]

SO was awful. Among the worst Superman stories I've read. A nice capper to the equally awful New Krypton saga.

This. It wasn't so much an origin as Johns writing new history for new stories he wound up not writing.

[Jordanstine]

Since Secret Origins came out just a mere 5 years after Birthright to be the *NEW* definitive origin story, I won't be surprised in the next 5-7 years if DC comes out with another new super definitive origin story.

Something like...

Superman - "Final Crisis of The Man of Steel's Birthright of his Secret Origins"

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/superman-birthright/1-1.jpg

"In The Beginning" huh?

Lies!

All lies!!!

[Daybreak_st]

Superman - "Final Crisis of The Man of Steel's Birthright of his Secret Origins"




Hahaha ^^^^^ that is Awesome! :biggrin:

[dumbstruck]

This. It wasn't so much an origin as Johns writing new history for new stories he wound up not writing.


As I understand it, New Krypton was largely laid out by Johns, and then he delivered this travesty of a Superman origin. I think Johns needs to stop working with Superman. I wasn't a fan of his run on Action from the start. New Krypton was boring and too long, and Secret Origin was......well.....He may be the go-to-guy at DC, but his Superman work as been a huge disappointment for me.

[srhanson]

Secret Origin is probably the best Superman story I've ever read, not just the best origin.

Regarding the complaints, I don't see what it has to do with New Krypton at all. And I didn't see a lot of retconning going on. Nothing that matters anyway. Gen Lane outs Superman as an alien? So what? Metallo's origin is really the only significant change. Everything else was just taking all the other origins and tidying them up.

Geoff Johns is a much better writer than those who have tried to take on Superman's origins in the recent past. Mark Waid' Birthright feels like fan fiction, and while Grant Morrison is a good idea man, he can't script to save his life. Johns handled the material, dialogue and pacing perfectly.

I had a smile from ear-to-ear reading every issue of this, long as it took for each of them to come out. I'll be buying multiple copies of this in trade to give out as gifts. It's the definitive Superman origin as far as I'm concerned.

[Death Itself]

As I understand it, New Krypton was largely laid out by Johns, and then he delivered this travesty of a Superman origin. I think Johns needs to stop working with Superman. I wasn't a fan of his run on Action from the start. New Krypton was boring and too long, and Secret Origin was......well.....He may be the go-to-guy at DC, but his Superman work as been a huge disappointment for me.

No argument here.


Secret Origin is probably the best Superman story I've ever read, not just the best origin.

That's so sad I think I'm going to cry.



Regarding the complaints, I don't see what it has to do with New Krypton at all. And I didn't see a lot of retconning going on. Nothing that matters anyway. Gen Lane outs Superman as an alien? So what? Metallo's origin is really the only significant change. Everything else was just taking all the other origins and tidying them up.

Geoff Johns is a much better writer than those who have tried to take on Superman's origins in the recent past. Mark Waid' Birthright feels like fan fiction, and while Grant Morrison is a good idea man, he can't script to save his life. Johns handled the material, dialogue and pacing perfectly.

I had a smile from ear-to-ear reading every issue of this, long as it took for each of them to come out. I'll be buying multiple copies of this in trade to give out as gifts. It's the definitive Superman origin as far as I'm concerned.

Fine forget the retcons. Let's go with the needless, nonstop worship of Superman the Movie. Yes, we all loved it, but it's not the end-all, be-all to Superman. You can have Superman do anything in a comic. He's limited in a movie and while John Byrne had him appear catching the space shuttle, Johns gives the very unimpressive-on-the-page sight of recreating Superman catching a helicopter.

And what pacing are you talking about? After swift pace for the first two issues, the story comes to an anvil-dropping stop once he hit Metropolis dragging on until the end of the series. Why does his establishment as hero take four issues to tell?

Painful anvil dropping. The Parasite is a greedy, fat janitor. GET IT!?! He was already a "parasite" beforehand. And how does he become The Parasite? A jelly doughnut. GET IT!?! And please slam me over the head a little more with Metropolis being horrible place that only Superman can save---even though we were told in earlier issues by Luthor himself that it was great and the story isn't even clever enough to have Luthor be the person who ruined it.

The sad trope of the stupid populace. Superman is saving lives in front of them, but the paper says he's a threat, so they act accordingly because now the Rules of Spider-Man are apparently in effect now. And is he not saving anyone's life outside of the city? Does he see floods in Pakistan and shrug? Because if he is saving lives all over the world, this really falls apart.

Oh, look. The "evil US Military." Aside from being one of those annoying retcons to bolster World of New Krypton, it an incredibly tired trope and them marching into a newspaper with guns saying "this is ours" is as about as believable as flying man from space. An awful idea with a worse execution. Sam Lane would find himself monitoring a base in Alaska with two person staff the next day if he pulled this. His presence here is solely to support World of New Krypton. It has no value at all to the origin of Superman. This is why the retcons are bad and unavoidable in discussing this. I didn't like Birthright either, but it only told its story. It didn't stop to help another.

I see this being phased out even faster than Birthright. Thank god.

[Jimmy Bond]

Birthright was cool, though I didn't like Lex having so much knowledge of Superman's heritage on Krypton. But it was a cinematic type of story, and had great characterization and explanations of Superman.

Secret Origin was generic and mediocre. Didn't care for all the retcons, just to serve the then-current stories like New Krypton, nor the artificiality of trying to combine the movie and Silver Age with Man of Steel.

I hate Man of Steel, but it at least modernized Superman for the 80s. SO doesn't do anything.

[Stu]

I liked it enough, though it could have tried to be more original. I understand though that they're doing it because there was a demand for the origin after Infinite Crisis reintroduced stuff into it, and it was nice to see the Legion and such in it.
I really liked Birthright too. I'd love to see that used as the basis for a rebooted film series, as it puts Superman into a modern context more and makes him more understandable guy, and the stuff about his travels and the way the disguise isn't just from wearing glasses is all good stuff that would help make him seem cooler again on the big screen.
I've read Man of Steel, and it's fine (though there's a couple of personal things about it that bug me) but it's really from an era of the comics when I wasn't reading them, so a lot of the characterisation and interpretation of certain things aren't how I'm familiar with them and not particularly how I prefer them.

[J. Robb]

I see this being phased out even faster than Birthright. Thank god.
Geoff Johns is now Chief Creative Officer for DC, so he'll probably protect his baby. Which I actually think is a good thing- if there's one thing the Superman books desperately need it's someone to tell writers to stop rewriting the past. Let Superman build up a consistent history again, even if it is based off Johns' dull revamp.

[Mainline]

Even ignoring the retcons and whatever one's personal take on what should or shouldn't be Superman's canon, motivations, etc. Secret Origin was written awfully in terms of dialogue (no one talks like that ever; even as comic dialogue it fails to resonate as any kind of call back to retro dialogue or excuse itself as being economy of words... it's just clumsy and glaring, half exposition and half stilted attempt at emotional manipulation) and really rough in terms of facial expression (Frank is a skilled illustrator but his facial range is nil... he's got ghastly skull smile or grisly sneer with three levels of eye-openings to mix and match... that lack of subtly matches the ham-fisted writing but means the story leans entirely on god-awful writing).

The writing is terrible in terms of dialogue ("He's alive." "Because I never give up." Really?) and in terms of pacing and prioritization (whole segments of Superman's origins dedicated to the origins and worlds of characters other than Superman; this final issue dedicated entirely to a fluffy fight without impact or emotional pay-off) and really shallow emotion (tritely creating blind faith in Lois without any kind of plausibility and creating a number of big-bads who never get their comeuppance in any meaningful way). Nevermind the plot holes which I've already discussed in prior issues.

The lack of emotional depth betrays its immaturity... everyone is either a rageaholic or completely a peace... Superman, Lois, Gen. Lane, Luthor... everyone loses their temper so Frank can fill the panel with their "ARGH!" face. The total lack of restraint means the story comes off completely artificial and just another one of Geoff Johns "checklist stories".

Frankly, I'm tired of his writing style which amounts to "Plot points I wish would happen and artless filler to get me there."

[daveageallen]

i honesly thought johns' secret origins was a mini series ending with 4.

its still going on?!

[srhanson]

I actually did find one minor thing to gripe about. (It's our job as comic book fans, after all.) The person who outs Superman as an alien is superfluous, but I was a little disappointed in the reaction from the top brass at the Daily Planet. It may have been a generation since the last crop of superheroes were prominent in the world, but aliens on Earth with extraordinary abilities is not a new thing. It should have gone like this:

Gen Lane: "Ready for this big revelation? Superman is an alien! Ta-da!"

Lois, et al: *shrug* ... *crickets*

[Neutrino]

Superman For All Seasons remains the best, and probably always will. The dialogue, the plot, the characterisation, the involvement of Lana Lang, my favourite Super-girl. Even Sale's art is absolutely astonishing. If Johns wants to, they can go back and rub out Luthor's hair to fit the Johns run. It's a real shame they wasted Frank's abilities on this trade-written, sanitised crap. If they had made it a collaboration between Morrison and Johns it might have had more potential, but that wouldn't change the fact that this story is completely superfluous.

(And MAN was Supes uninteresting in this story. If this was the only Superman story I had ever read, I'd be satisfied with a 'they all lived happily ever after' ending, I care so little about him. At least Waid knew to make Clark more compelling.)

[Kiryu]

Man, when I read the page where some old lady says

"People in Metropolis have better things to do then look up in the sky"

I knew this would be the same horse crap Johns turns out now. It's embarassingly cliche and bad. That it again instead of being an introduction to a character is more of an introduction to a crappy story, this time one Johns didn't even write. I am of course referring to the New Krypton nonsense.

Sad.

[dupersuper]

Superman: Secret Origins IS the other origins...

[ArnoldoAAD]

New Krypton was a good idea but then Johns leave and they give the story to Robinson and Rucka and the result was a half cooked project

i remember that when Johns made GL:Secret Origins he laid a lot of things to be build later on the next runs like blackest night and Atrocious

i think he was going to do the same here, thats why Lane is on the comic but since New Krypton got so much hate and the sales of all superman books went really down they decided to wrap it all up fast and forget about it and to cancel any idea of following up since this was not gonna be the next Blackest Night, and it was not gonna do to Superman what did to GL
and that directly affected this story

overall the story was not bad, but it have loose foundations, the last 2 chps were less than great
but is nice story of the origin

i also agree its not a huge retcon, the origins of Luthor, Parasite and Metallo were simplified and the Legion become part of the origin once again
but other than that it didnt affected much of other stories

[Hullababy]

I personally think Superman origin stories are overrated. My favorite Superman origin happens to be the one in All Star Superman. One page is all that's required for Superman's origin IMO.

That said, my favorite of the main Superman origins happen to be Birthright and the original Pre Crisis version.

There were ltos of things about "Man of Steel" that I didn't like but atleast it had a vision and tried to do something.

Secret Origin started out good but by the 5th issue, I was bored out of my mind. Its completely uninspired, boring and awful. Why does Johns' Superman act so awkward infront of the crowd when he has already had a career as Superboy ? It made sense for Byrne's Superman to be freaked out by it because he was new. Its like Johns is again trying to please fans of all the origins and also continue his fan worship of Superman: The Movie instead of telling a good story and in the end he ends up pleasing no one. I really wanted to like SO but its an awful story and my least favorite of the Superman origins.

[dumbstruck]

if there's one thing the Superman books desperately need it's someone to tell writers to stop rewriting the past.

Geoff Johns is one of the worst offenders of rewriting the past. And not just for Superman.

[Leocomix]

I prefer Secret Origins to Man of Steel. I have never read Birthright.
That being said, I can't warm up to the business man Luthor. I prefer the mad scientist (Paul Cornell has it right in Action Comics, although he restored him as head of Luthorcorp he has this mad quest for knowledge which is more interesting than the mad quest for people's admiration)

I think the origin of Action Comics 1 hasn't been beaten yet.

[Seven_Ride]

Now that Secret Origin is complete what did you think? Was it as fulfilling as you expected? Disappointing? How would you compare it with other origin stories, like Man of Steel and Birthright?Honestly, I haven't read Secret Origin 6 yet, and it's been a long time since I read the prior issues. I remember being somewhat underwhelmed by SO, in general. Especially in comparison to the crackle and verve of Johns' prior work on Action Comics.

And I also enjoy comparing new versions to old versions and the like. It's fun. But it seems comic boards get so caught up in this vs. that.

So I will respectfully put this forward: In the big picture, this origin vs. that one? It sooo does not matter.

What Waid did 7 years ago, or what Byrne did 23 years ago or what Schwartz did 40 years ago is pretty irrelevant to what they want to do now.

Your choice doesn't have to be Secret Origin or Birthright. This is comics. The choice isn't chicken or fish, a zero sum game. Superman is a buffet. You can enjoy a little of everything.

I think it's great big blue can be interpreted so many different ways. None of the different visions needs to be erased from the history books for being (shock!) distinct from one another. Distinctiveness is a good thing.

[Jimmy Bond]

Superman For All Seasons remains the best, and probably always will. The dialogue, the plot, the characterisation, the involvement of Lana Lang, my favourite Super-girl. Even Sale's art is absolutely astonishing. If Johns wants to, they can go back and rub out Luthor's hair to fit the Johns run. It's a real shame they wasted Frank's abilities on this trade-written, sanitised crap. If they had made it a collaboration between Morrison and Johns it might have had more potential, but that wouldn't change the fact that this story is completely superfluous.

For All Seasons is definitely a beautiful story. They should do more origin stories that way.

[Jimmy Bond]

I prefer Secret Origins to Man of Steel. I have never read Birthright.
That being said, I can't warm up to the business man Luthor. I prefer the mad scientist (Paul Cornell has it right in Action Comics, although he restored him as head of Luthorcorp he has this mad quest for knowledge which is more interesting than the mad quest for people's admiration)
.

Unless you're a big continuity guy, you'll likely like Birthright. It has the scientist version of Lex.

[Jimmy Bond]

New Krypton was a good idea but then Johns leave and they give the story to Robinson and Rucka and the result was a half cooked project


Basically, though I don't know how much better it would have been with Johns. I still wish Mark Waid did the project.

[ArnoldoAAD]

not only the left of Johns

it also affected the left of Superman from Superman and AC for over a year
a really bad idea
it almost kill the titles

[J. Robb]

Your choice doesn't have to be Secret Origin or Birthright. This is comics. The choice isn't chicken or fish, a zero sum game. Superman is a buffet. You can enjoy a little of everything.

I think it's great big blue can be interpreted so many different ways. None of the different visions needs to be erased from the history books for being (shock!) distinct from one another. Distinctiveness is a good thing.
Consistency is also a good thing, and it's what Superman needs. The last ten years have been a free-for-all, and readers haven't seemed very interested unless Grant Morrison was writing or Jim Lee was drawing.

[Jimmy Bond]

Consistency is also a good thing, and it's what Superman needs. The last ten years have been a free-for-all, and readers haven't seemed very interested unless Grant Morrison was writing or Jim Lee was drawing.

Basically. Out of all the ages of Superman (Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron, etc) the current one has been the darkest. Even though I don't like Man of Steel, I liked for For All Seasons gave it an update for the 1st century keeping consistency. They should do that more often.

[Mat001]

Unless you're a big continuity guy, you'll likely like Birthright. It has the scientist version of Lex.

So does "Secret Origin".

[Jimmy Bond]

So does "Secret Origin".

Sort of, but BR emphasized it more.

[protonik]

I loved Superman Secret Origins, it reminded me of what I love about Superman. My only complaint is that climax is lifted from The Incredible Hulk movie, Metallo=Abomination

[Seven_Ride]

Consistency is also a good thing, and it's what Superman needs. The last ten years have been a free-for-all, and readers haven't seemed very interested unless Grant Morrison was writing or Jim Lee was drawing.
I get what you're saying, but I think consistency isn't exactly a creative virtue; it's more a semi-important accessory. People don't plunk down hard-earned cash because the characters and fictional history are consistent.

You alluded to Morrison and Lee, and I think that speaks to a largest desire of readers: People want epic, well-told stories with brilliant art. Give them that, and they'll come back again and again.

[Seven_Ride]

I loved Superman Secret Origins, it reminded me of what I love about Superman. Secret Origin is like prior SOs and Year Ones in that they present these characters in 'iconic' form, but with a fresh eye. A little refocusing, a little reinvention.

Because the truth is, before 5-6 years ago most DC books struggled to top 40K in sales. The audience for even DC's main heroes was pretty small.

But that's changing: You still have the monthly crowd of 30-50K a month. But they've grown a trade library that now out-earns the monthlies. They have movies, video games, digital distribution. The playing field is getting bigger.

So the time for new reader stories has come. Fresh jumping-on points. SO is supposed to be Superman as most everyone knows him, but with new elements here, there. Superman vol. 1, basically.

[J. Robb]

I get what you're saying, but I think consistency isn't exactly a creative virtue; it's more a semi-important accessory. People don't plunk down hard-earned cash because the characters and fictional history are consistent.

You alluded to Morrison and Lee, and I think that speaks to a largest desire of readers: People want epic, well-told stories with brilliant art. Give them that, and they'll come back again and again.
Ideally, you should give them both. Even epic, (otherwise) well-told stories will annoy readers if they don't line up with the last epic, well-told story.

[Xistel]

Just read SO and found it to be great for someone who wants to jump in to superman. It's very simple and straight forward but still gives you a great sense of who he is.

[KnightErrantJR]

I got SO because I wanted to see what the "official" line on Superman from this point on. It felt very much to me that it was a checklist mainly to show what was in continuity and what wasn't and didn't feel much like a story on its own. Plus I hated the fact that the US Military is in Superman's rogues gallery now and Lois' dad is Thunderbolt Ross and Metallo is Glenn Talbot.

With all of this talk, I happened to be at Border's and saw the Birthright trade on the shelf and picked it up. I didn't read it when it came out, because I wasn't sure if it was suppose to be in continuity, and I didn't (at the time) have the ability to just read whatever I wanted to. Plus, if it was in continuity, I was still clinging to my enjoyment of Man of Steel (though over the years some of my love of elements of it have faded).

After reading Birthright . . . SO isn't even in the same category. Birthright was first and foremost a good story that happened also to retell Superman's origin, and Hell, it did so without making Lex into the goofy character he always seems to be under Johns. Plus, as some other people have mentioned, the fact that he lived in Smallville actually had a point in this story, instead of being on the "checklist" to get out of the way.

The only thing that would have made Birthright any better is if Waid could have pulled off the miracle of maintaining the same tone and still introducing Krypto (I know, that would have been very, very hard to do).

I think SO actually is closer in structure to Man of Steel, with the encapsulated volumes each showing some aspect of the origin that was being highlighted, a with only a little bit of connective tissue between the issues. Man of Steel was still better, but I'd have to say that while the concept of Lex owning a corporation is a great idea to explain why Lex has all of the resources he needs to be a good science based villain, neither goofy Lex from SO or fat arrogant loud CEO non-scientist Lex from Man of Steel are actually better than one another.

[Jimmy Bond]

I got SO because I wanted to see what the "official" line on Superman from this point on. It felt very much to me that it was a checklist mainly to show what was in continuity and what wasn't and didn't feel much like a story on its own. Plus I hated the fact that the US Military is in Superman's rogues gallery now and Lois' dad is Thunderbolt Ross and Metallo is Glenn Talbot.

With all of this talk, I happened to be at Border's and saw the Birthright trade on the shelf and picked it up. I didn't read it when it came out, because I wasn't sure if it was suppose to be in continuity, and I didn't (at the time) have the ability to just read whatever I wanted to. Plus, if it was in continuity, I was still clinging to my enjoyment of Man of Steel (though over the years some of my love of elements of it have faded).

After reading Birthright . . . SO isn't even in the same category. Birthright was first and foremost a good story that happened also to retell Superman's origin, and Hell, it did so without making Lex into the goofy character he always seems to be under Johns. Plus, as some other people have mentioned, the fact that he lived in Smallville actually had a point in this story, instead of being on the "checklist" to get out of the way.

The only thing that would have made Birthright any better is if Waid could have pulled off the miracle of maintaining the same tone and still introducing Krypto (I know, that would have been very, very hard to do).

I think SO actually is closer in structure to Man of Steel, with the encapsulated volumes each showing some aspect of the origin that was being highlighted, a with only a little bit of connective tissue between the issues. Man of Steel was still better, but I'd have to say that while the concept of Lex owning a corporation is a great idea to explain why Lex has all of the resources he needs to be a good science based villain, neither goofy Lex from SO or fat arrogant loud CEO non-scientist Lex from Man of Steel are actually better than one another.

Even though we don't agree on Morrison, I can't agree more here. SO is similar structure wise to MoS, where it just tours the early years and shows what's canon. Birthright is more of a Year One type of story. MoS gets the edge, because even though I don't like it's changes to Superman, it succeeded at streamlining and modernizing (for the time) Superman. On the other hand SO just artificially patches together different versions of Superman, and mainly just makes continuity convenient for Johns.

[Death Itself]

Even though we don't agree on Morrison, I can't agree more here. SO is similar structure wise to MoS, where it just tours the early years and shows what's canon.

And if it had just done that it would have been fine, but it doesn't. The first two issues do that and they're fun, but the "establishment as a hero in Metropolis" point should have been one or two issues at best, not four. And certainly not in that "beat you over the head with it" style of storytelling. Instead, Johns stops the story cold to justify Sam Lane and Metallo's presence in World of New Krypton. Man of Steel is no Batman Year One, but it serves its purpose for that time. This serves no one but Johns. It remains the only Superman Origin I can recommend is For All Seasons, which is no longer in continuity.

Oh, and personal issue: if you're 6'4, 225 lbs as an adult, chances are you're well on your way there by the time you're a teenager and this idea that teen Clark has to look like Peter Parker is ridiculous. A big man is usually a big teenager.

[KnightErrantJR]

Oh, and personal issue: if you're 6'4, 225 lbs as an adult, chances are you're well on your way there by the time you're a teenager and this idea that teen Clark has to look like Peter Parker is ridiculous. A big man is usually a big teenager.

Male humans, at least, can still have growth spurts into their early twenties. While a lot of men are pretty well on their way by the time they are teens, its not a given across the board.

[KnightErrantJR]

Even though we don't agree on Morrison, I can't agree more here. SO is similar structure wise to MoS, where it just tours the early years and shows what's canon. Birthright is more of a Year One type of story. MoS gets the edge, because even though I don't like it's changes to Superman, it succeeded at streamlining and modernizing (for the time) Superman. On the other hand SO just artificially patches together different versions of Superman, and mainly just makes continuity convenient for Johns.


Its nice to find common ground even when you disagree on other topics. :biggrin:

[KnightErrantJR]

The first two issues do that and they're fun, but the "establishment as a hero in Metropolis" point should have been one or two issues at best, not four. And certainly not in that "beat you over the head with it" style of storytelling. Instead, Johns stops the story cold to justify Sam Lane and Metallo's presence in World of New Krypton. Man of Steel is no Batman Year One, but it serves its purpose for that time. This serves no one but Johns.


I did think it was a bit obvious that the origin seemed to prop up the set up to the New Krypton story arc, which felt a bit too blatant. Plus, for some reason it seems that Johns is really skewed towards pushing Lex, Parasite, and Metallo as Superman's core rogues. Other than his appearance in the New Krypton or Last Son arc, I'm not sure why we needed Parasite's origin over, say, Silver Banshee or Mongul or any other Superman rogue picked out of a hat.

[Jimmy Bond]

Parasite's origin with the donut was just shameful.

[jgiannantoni05]

Overall, I do think Secret Origin stands as the best origin for Superman canon.

There were some things I didn't like: Lex's new origin, some hokiness with Parasite.

But overall, I think it's the best. Better than MoS and Birthright for canon.

[thosemortalmen]

Overall, I do think Secret Origin stands as the best origin for Superman canon.

There were some things I didn't like: Lex's new origin, some hokiness with Parasite.

But overall, I think it's the best. Better than MoS and Birthright for canon.

I agree on your first sentence there, but i didn't understand about the whole Lex's new origin, since his origin from his last one (Birthright it is) was from Smallville town right?


And for some people who thought that Lex was a 2 dimensional villain in SO than you forget to see the All Star version...
But IMO, i never thought Lex is never will be a 2 dimensional character though he looks like that from a first viewing but he's more complicated and demented because of his ego, ideals, megalomaniacal and a very driven man.... Even Morrison once told Wizard that Lex is the all the best and all the worst of us...Is it 2 dimensional? I think not...

[jgiannantoni05]

but i didn't understand about the whole Lex's new origin,
I don't mind Lex being from Smallville. I now prefer it.

But I don't like Lex being a poor "evil from the beginning" farmboy with an abusive farmer father. Johns should have kept to Beatty's back-up origin for 52....Johns should have went with more "Smallville TV show" elements for Lex's origin...with Anakin Skywalker-ish silver spoon Lex and emotionally abusive cold CEO Lionel.

[thosemortalmen]

I don't mind Lex being from Smallville. I now prefer it.

But I don't like Lex being a poor "evil from the beginning" farmboy with an abusive farmer father. Johns should have kept to Beatty's back-up origin for 52....Johns should have went with more "Smallville TV show" elements for Lex's origin...with silver spoon Lex and Lionel.

Can you tell me about Luthor's origin in 52? i haven't read it yet...

I agree Lex downfall should be more smooth like in the birthright, but since it's just a miniseries, Johns was kinda forced to condense it...hoping we who were familiar with his previous origins knew that Lex wasn't all that bad at the beginning; but a choosy, cocky, high taste and smart one? I'm there with this one...

but i still think Lex should be just like Clark, came from an ordinary family...because the notion of two small town kids who grew up and strive to became the best of their species and made their dreams (i said species because Clark is you know...) and ironically and morally point of this story is the outsider (Clark) is the one in the right side but Lex as a man acts like an outsider/alien (who wants to be worshipped and make humanity depends on him and him only)... so the competition was lay in the slightest form from issue to issue....

[jgiannantoni05]

Can you tell me about Luthor's origin in 52? i haven't read it yet...
DC has it on their site.

http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/lex_luthor&p=1

[ShadowBoxing]

The best Lex Luthor in my opinion was in Marvel Comics. It was the Emil Burbank origin in Supreme Power.

That said, Secret Origins sucked hard. The Parasite origin was annoying. I hated the rebranding of John Corbin as a military serviceman. I prefer Lex being from Smallville, but his character just seemed bland. The whole story seemed bland. Like they weren't even trying.

[Daybreak_st]

DC has it on their site.

http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/lex_luthor&p=1

They should've stuck with that origin. Lex and Clark were actual friends. Lionel Luthor from smallville is simply awesome. It adds some real pathos to why lex became lex, not just "he's always been an evil kid" approach. Also with the way Paul Cornel is writing lex, he doesn't fit in well with they Johns portrayed him, as a cooky mad scientist. In my hbao.

[gwangung]

They should've stuck with that origin. Lex and Clark were actual friends. Lionel Luthor from smallville is simply awesome. It adds some real pathos to why lex became lex, not just "he's always been an evil kid" approach. Also with the way Paul Cornel is writing lex, he doesn't fit in well with they Johns portrayed him, as a cooky mad scientist. In my hbao.

Yeah. Lots to be said for that.

My own opinion is that if Superman never came, Earth would become a star faring world under Lex's leadership--but it's a mildly exploitative, mildly greed ridden society, not unlike a rule of robber barons. Great things happen, but a lot of nasty things occur. (and if Luthor and Superman were truly friends, it'd be a utopia, but with Luthor being a second banana. Since Lex would never allow that to occur.....).

[thosemortalmen]

They should've stuck with that origin. Lex and Clark were actual friends. Lionel Luthor from smallville is simply awesome. It adds some real pathos to why lex became lex, not just "he's always been an evil kid" approach. Also with the way Paul Cornel is writing lex, he doesn't fit in well with they Johns portrayed him, as a cooky mad scientist. In my hbao.

Isn't that what SO did? Lionel from Smallville?
and i guess if there is a prequel of SO issue number 1 "the birth of Lex Luthor" i believe his not like Damian boy from the Omen movies, who turned out a personification of Evil... but i believed he became like what we saw in either his teenage years or the mature years was affected by his abusive ignorant father and the loss of his mother also the economic issues (lack of compassion, look at Rorschach for example...) that's why he told Clark that he want to move from Smallville because this town only slows him down and beat him down and thwart his dream where he can escape from this situation and make a better future for himself and finally, even make people depends on him...

As with the way Paul Cornel is writing lex, he doesn't fit in well with they Johns portrayed him, as a cooky mad scientist i guess that's a character development from Luthor himself becaming a more wiser, effective, a thinker and cunning man in his more mature years long after his first confrontation with Supes and other events in Supes/DC universe....

[Daybreak_st]

Isn't that what SO did? Lionel from Smallville?
and i guess if there is a prequel of SO issue number 1 "the birth of Lex Luthor" i believe his not like Damian boy from the Omen movies, who turned out a personification of Evil... but i believed he became like what we saw in either his teenage years or the mature years was affected by his abusive ignorant father and the loss of his mother also the economic issues (lack of compassion, look at Rorschach for example...) that's why he told Clark that he want to move from Smallville because this town only slows him down and beat him down and thwart his dream where he can escape from this situation and make a better future for himself and finally, even make people depends on him...


Not really. SO had lionel as drunk hick who abused his son. Lex is a upset kid who tries to kill his dad twice and suceeds once. Smallville portrayed Lionel as an aristocrat trying to mold his son into becoming the next Alexander the Great (that's why he was named "lex" short for Alexander). Lionel was very much the person Lex would become but he fought against his "destiny" or darker tendencies. The relationship was complex. When lex finally does kill his father in Smallville, it's important character defining moment. It's not a throw away plot point to show how evil he is like in SO. Smallville actually showed the struggle lex went through.



As with the way Paul Cornel is writing lex, he doesn't fit in well with they Johns portrayed him, as a cooky mad scientist i guess that's a character development from Luthor himself becaming a more wiser, effective, a thinker and cunning man in his more mature years long after his first confrontation with Supes and other events in Supes/DC universe....

I think it's just a different writer's approach to the character. I doubt cornell is referencing anything written in SO for his version of Lex he's just writing a great character. It's as different as various writers' approach to Superman. People see him differently and they write him that way. Cornell sees lex as a complex individual who's both a brilliant scientist and businessman. He reminds me of Michael Rosenbaum from smallville, and the voice of James Masters from Superman/Doomsday,, the icy calm demeanor. Vs cooky "it's alive!" luthor from SO.

Also does it seem strange to anyone else why the public finally decides to embrace Superman? Think about it he makes his first public save by flying over the crowd saving a woman and a helicopter, but the pubilc is distrustful. Then he rescues people throughout the city at various times. Yet still people don't trust him. He rescues people including firemen from a fire, yet still distrust. He fights parasite in front of a large crowd. Yet still same reaction of distrust. At this point he's already given Lois and interview and jimmy has taken photos of him so it's not like the public doesn't know what he stands for. But then he fights the US military in public and gives a little speech and all of a sudden everyone is on his side? Even when only a small fraction of the public would've heard his speech (ie people on the street in that area)? That doesn't strike anyone else as odd? That if you arent' in awe to see a man come out of nowhere to rescue a woman and a helicopter while flying in the air, then i don't think there are many things that will leave you cheering :eek:

[jgiannantoni05]

Not really. SO had lionel as drunk hick who abused his son. Lex is a upset kid who tries to kill his dad twice and suceeds once. Smallville portrayed Lionel as an aristocrat trying to mold his son into becoming the next Alexander the Great (that's why he was named "lex" short for Alexander). Lionel was very much the person Lex would become but he fought against his "destiny" or darker tendencies. The relationship was complex. When lex finally does kill his father in Smallville, it's important character defining moment. It's not a throw away plot point to show how evil he is like in SO. Smallville actually showed the struggle lex went through.

Exactly daybreak. Not really Lionel at all.

"Smallville's" version of Lex's origin is just beautiful and awesome, and the broad strokes of it should be adopted for the comic origin of Lex IMHO.

[Daybreak_st]

Exactly daybreak. Not really Lionel at all.

"Smallville's" version of Lex's origin is just beautiful and awesome, and the broad strokes of it should be adopted for the comic origin of Lex IMHO.

QFT and i love you're signature! Those lines were fanastic. I agree if they want to use the relationship btw clark and lex then go all the way and adept lex from smallville. Maybe not make the friendship last as long but at least handle lionel and lex the way smallville did, truly brilliantly. You could even make lionel the "lex luthor" for an older generation of heroes like the JSA or something. But creating some drunk hick and naming him "Lionel" is not the same thing as translating the character that was so well developed in smallville.

[Mat001]

I did think it was a bit obvious that the origin seemed to prop up the set up to the New Krypton story arc, which felt a bit too blatant. Plus, for some reason it seems that Johns is really skewed towards pushing Lex, Parasite, and Metallo as Superman's core rogues. Other than his appearance in the New Krypton or Last Son arc, I'm not sure why we needed Parasite's origin over, say, Silver Banshee or Mongul or any other Superman rogue picked out of a hat.

The Parasite was chosen since his powers are about draining the life force from a living person, including those who have super powers. And Rudy became the Parasite because of a radioactive isotope. All Johns did was change the content of the radiation to Kryptonite and combine it with various experimentations, results in a variation of how Kryptonite weakens a Kryptonian, only on a different scale.

As to using it as a set up for "New Krypton", well, it only makes sense that Johns shows the beginnings of that. Just like he set up the beginnings of his Green Lantern run with "Secret Origin". Remember, Johns and Frank were originally supposed to do this after "Brainiac" in the pages of Action Comics, while NK took place in the other titles. The stories would run concurrently and thus we'd see how Sam Lane became the way he is in the present.

[ManofTheAtom]

Wrong thread...

[dupersuper]

The stories would run concurrently and thus we'd see how Sam Lane became the way he is in the present.

By flashing back to 12 years ago and ignoring everything in between? Plus, we didn't get to see "how he bacame" that way; he was the same way when he first appears here as when he shoots himself in the head.

[NotSuper]

Birthright > Secret Origin > MOS

[Jimmy Bond]

Exactly daybreak. Not really Lionel at all.

"Smallville's" version of Lex's origin is just beautiful and awesome, and the broad strokes of it should be adopted for the comic origin of Lex IMHO.

I'm baffled that they had already given something close to the Smallville origin in 52, and yet they went this route in SO. If Johns was already borrowing so much from Smallville the The Movie, why did we get this version of Lex?

I liked the idea of Lionel being sort of the Bryne version of Lex. It even fits his age.

[Mat001]

By flashing back to 12 years ago and ignoring everything in between? Plus, we didn't get to see "how he bacame" that way; he was the same way when he first appears here as when he shoots himself in the head.

I think we would've saw other elements in "Secret Origin", but those things wound up appearing in Supergirl Annual #1.

[redjirachi]

Meh,I liked Birthright better.This was average

[KnightErrantJR]

The Parasite was chosen since his powers are about draining the life force from a living person, including those who have super powers. And Rudy became the Parasite because of a radioactive isotope. All Johns did was change the content of the radiation to Kryptonite and combine it with various experimentations, results in a variation of how Kryptonite weakens a Kryptonian, only on a different scale.

As to using it as a set up for "New Krypton", well, it only makes sense that Johns shows the beginnings of that. Just like he set up the beginnings of his Green Lantern run with "Secret Origin". Remember, Johns and Frank were originally supposed to do this after "Brainiac" in the pages of Action Comics, while NK took place in the other titles. The stories would run concurrently and thus we'd see how Sam Lane became the way he is in the present.


Parasite being mutated by Kryptonite and Lex being the reason that Parasite and Metallo exist, to me, is like the 80s-90s trend of super hero movies, like the 89 Batman that had to tie the villain directly to everything important in the hero's life.

In other words, to me it felt like having the Joker kill Bruce's parents. There really wasn't any need to make every single thing fit into a perfect package.

[KnightErrantJR]

I

I liked the idea of Lionel being sort of the Bryne version of Lex. It even fits his age.


Thank you for that. It never quite occurred to me in exactly that way before, but I like that.

[Jimmy Bond]

QFT and i love you're signature! Those lines were fanastic.

My favorite line was "...And I want a pony tail. Disappointment abounds."

[Hypestyle]

So.. when will this finally be collected in a TPB? Preferably hardcover with bonus material.. hopefully soon...

[dupersuper]

So.. when will this finally be collected in a TPB? Preferably hardcover with bonus material.. hopefully soon...

"Finally"? It ended like a month or 2 ago...

[Cardinal!]

I prefer Man of Steel, personally (admittedly not having read Birthright). It's just a fuller, more well-rounded story that covers more bases in Superman's history. In 6 issues, John Byrne addresses Clark Kent's childhood and realization of his powers, his rise to prominence as Superman, his early years as a reporter, and a good introduction to his relationships with Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Batman, and Lana Lang. And I will always prefer the version that promotes Clark Kent as his own person and not just some lame disguise. It just makes more sense... how can Clark ever enjoy his downtime if he has to spend it maintaining some buffoonish facade around his friends? Byrne made a point out of realigning this dichotomy between Clark and Superman's human and alien heritages, and he was right for doing so.

Secret Origin... eh, it was just burdened too much with all of the usual characteristics of Geoff Johns' scripting that makes his work so unpalatable to me. The cutesy foreshadowings, the thin plotting, the over-reliance of "OMG he sounds so kool when he sayz this line!" moments...

I also am a huge believer that a proper origin story owes it to the characters to not bog down the timeless elements of the history with stupid retcons that are only there to enhance ongoing events. In what version of Superman's origin did anyone want to see Sam Lane this heavily involved??? This was also a pretty big flaw in Johns' Green Lantern re-write. How can an origin story hope to stand the test of time when it's already dating itself by so heavily pays tribute to some story that no one's going to give a damn about 10 years from now? In 2020, is Blackest Night or New Krypton really going to matter to these characters any more than events like No Man's Land or Electric Supes matter to us now? They might as well just do a Wonder Woman: Secret Origin that heavily foreshadows "War of the Gods," or a new JLA: Year One mini that foreshadows the unstoppable threat of Mageddon. Because we all know what vital milestones those stories were in those characters' histories. *eyeroll*

The final nail for me in SO was the poor portrayal of the military (if you don't know anything about it or how it works in real life, just STAY AWAY FROM WRITING ABOUT IT!). Gen. Lane walking into the Daily Planet and "taking it over" was just plain dumb on several levels, and the way the soldiers under his command willingly follow his lead like braindead henchmen would have been borderline insulting if the whole scenario wasn't so laughably ridiculous in the first place. Even for us dumb shmucks who sign our life away to the government, conscience will typically override orders from crazy officers.

[ffaristocrat]

I didn't mind the retcons. Liked the story and the art.

But it didn't feel like a story. I know it's "Secret Origin" but I think I would've preferred if they just retold the origin story instead of writing a mini-series of deleted scenes. (interesting as they were)