Shed

[Combustible Pumpkins]

Gotta admit, when I first finished this arc I was definitely unhappy. I decided to reread it though and here's how I feel about it:

The first issue was very impressive, very evenly paced with decent cameos. Black Cat's scene was done nicely, the flirting felt natural. Spidey's awkwardness equally so. It's clear here that Spidey needs to drop Cat and go with Carlie. Harry Osborn's advice about it felt right too, Peter isn't a guy who likes to play the field, so to speak. Great portrayal of Monster-Lizard vexing Connors from within, interesting concept expressed here: Let cold one see sun, for example. Great correlation between how unfeeling Lizards are, how they'll simply mate with any female within their territory, and Curt's hidden affections for his assistant. Plausible way for the Lizard to get a foothold into Curt's awareness instead of whispering from a more veiled, shadowy place.

Bachalo draws impressively, I can see his imagery in my head still which leads me to believe these issues will stand the test of time. I love the opening scenes and the final horrific panels of blood spatter and moist sharp reptilian teeth, which are more suggestive than gory.

The Carlie Cooper quiet flit scene was done nicely as well.

Second issue starts off weak, however. Nothing more undeserving towards Kaine as having some psycho twelve year old best you in a fight making you run away screaming 'Stay away from me!'. The 'I Am Hunted' panel with little girl Kraven was hokey too.

Note: As much as I've enjoyed Bachalo's work here, I do prefer Rio's straight ahead style in the first eight pages. Her technique is better suited for comic books in general. You see more of the action and less of the artist, if you know what I mean. The two different artists works here, however. Bachalo's work doesn't arrive until the first Lizard scene which is appropriate.

Dating a forensic expert who works for the police will make for better Spidey stories, imo. Carlie investigating the carnage left in the Lizard's wake then calling Peter totally works. I'm very happy Peter will be dating Carlie now(, or so it seems).

During the first Lizard / Spidey battle, Lizard rams his own head into a wall to knock out the mammalian part of his brain where Curt supposedly resides. That was weird, I'm not so sure the brain operates that simply, wish it did, I'd definitely bump my head in the right spot to forget about a few things if I could.

It's clear the Lizard regards Curt Conners as a rival therefor, The Lizard kills Billy. Here is where the trouble begins for me. I remember the Lizard actually saving Billy once, so it seems this would be uncharacteristic of the Lizard to want to do. However, The Lizard does mention that Kurt wanted to kill him, so this can be viewed as retaliation and also that The Lizard is no longer confused about its own identity, i.e. Connors memories enmeshing with The Lizard's. It's disappointing that Connors wasn't strong enough to stop The Lizard from murdering his son, however. I would of liked for Curt to be more stable, expressed more fortitude in the face of all this, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. I like the idea of Conners being in control of The Lizard, but unfortunately I don't foresee this happening either. Ana Kravinov being involved in Billy's death is cool though. It entwines her more in the Lizard legacy, and gives even more reason for Spidey to dislike her.

Connors being wiped clean from The Lizard's brain as a consequence of Billy's death does make for interesting stories if Curt comes back. Seeing the development of the Lizard into the cerebral cortex is interesting too, I guess. So I am interested in how The Lizard changes, but unfortunately how The Lizard was shown to evolve at the ending of this story was too hokey for me to get into. The Kraven siblings at the end was interesting though. Nothing like having a psychotic little sister. Hopefully both survive after Grim Hunt.

The opening scene to part three is brilliant. The art is very compelling as Spidey retraces his steps before he finds Billy's corpse. That's right, it seems Billy was chomped to death, (for all you Bill Clinton fans: the Lizard chewed but never swallowed.) The opening scenes are very poignant until the new proto-feathered Lizard appears. Once again, hokey, since The Lizard didn't really look too different in that panel (although, he does seem to morph slightly more later).

What follows is the worst, however. A total slap in the face to old time Spidey readers. The panel sequences leave little doubt that The Lizard never spoke before this new transformation. But as most Spidey fans know this was a huge, ugly editorial mistake. The Lizard spoke before, so he was always involved in the language brain center, there's nothing new there. It remains to be seen what Slott does with this immense foopah. Can he ignore it? Or will he work on it?

So what starts off strong, the third issue quickly falls apart. Wells assumes way too much about how our brain functions. The lower cerebellum is called the reptilian brain because it's the oldest part of the brain, but it doesn't mean that everyone has a lizard inside them for The Lizard to control. This is where the enjoyment of the story ends for me. Plus the fear aspect of this region is associated with our fight and flight reactions. That's right fight, not just flight. Suddenly Spidey being scared of The Lizards' teeth and claws was lame. Also the Lizard stops chasing Spidey because he realizes he's... naked. More lameness. Dude's still a scary monster, it's not like he has any noticeable lower anatomy dangling or anything like that. Well, I guess that it could be argued since his privates were covered or shadowed out. He could of grown a human penis. But still... trading in the cool lab coat for a hoody cape and jeans just didn't seem right.

Seems like the Lizard is still transforming by the end of the third issue. It was interesting Spidey took the serum that inhibited Curt's inner reptile and when he was up close spit the serum into Lizard's jaws and attacked him with syringes only to find out that Conners was truly gone. And apparently the new feathered Lizard didn't have any memories of Billy until Spidey showed him Billy's picture. Simply put, the story just gets terrible from here on out. Part four sucks big time. The new Lizard suddenly has feelings where he never had them before which is a total crock if you've read back issues. The Lizard sees buildings and planes for the very first time, and doesn't understand this terrible feeling he has about Billy's death. Flat out, all of this is very hokey.

Spidey not defending himself against the violent throng in fear of hurting them was equally lame. At the very least he should web-slinged away, but no, he can't fight back, even if it means... he should die. Spidey isn't this inept, he would of defended himself without killing them. Super. Lame. Lamer than most lame, I'd say. Then the Lizard saves Spidey because of a picture in his head of Billy. And needs to ask Spidey questions about it. More lame. Going from scary monster to scary monster with feelings, doesn't interest me in the slightest. In fact, it's absurd, since the old Lizard, the one before it shed was new to begin with. It wasn't anything like prior Lizard's, thus the impact of the new new Lizard was totally lame. The ending of this story is not worth rereading.


Big fat F. Yet I'm still happy I collected these. Go figure.

[CyberHubbs]

I thought the ending was pretty cool. Before, the Lizard relied on Connor's mind for information. It piggybacked his human understanding of things around him. When it took over, it saw things at first in a very rudimentary, very primal way. But then it began to evolve, began to understand, and quite possibly fell to the same thing that gave humans a leg-up over all of the other animals in the world: the ability to reason.

[Aziz Abbasi]

Lizard used to speak since ASM 006

[Combustible Pumpkins]

I thought the ending was pretty cool. Before, the Lizard relied on Connor's mind for information. It piggybacked his human understanding of things around him. When it took over, it saw things at first in a very rudimentary, very primal way. But then it began to evolve, began to understand, and quite possibly fell to the same thing that gave humans a leg-up over all of the other animals in the world: the ability to reason.

Putting aside my concept of what the R-Complex is for a moment, I'll admit the concept was interesting enough. Two beings vying for control over one body, it's sorta like the Hulk, but a lot creepier. However, the fact that The Lizard did have the ability to reason before this story arc diminishes the impact of this reveal. Continuity should be respected, don't you think? There should of been stories prior to this one that portrayed The Lizard as more primal as in McFarlane's classic Torment; but instead last time we saw The Lizard he was speaking and the stories never rendered any clues that The Lizard didn't grasp the understanding of machinery before. That's probably why I think this ending was hokey.


Lizard used to speak since ASM 006

Yeah, that's my point!

[CyberHubbs]

Putting aside my concept of what the R-Complex is for a moment, I'll admit the concept was interesting enough. Two being vying for control over one body, it's sorta like the Hulk, but a lot creepier. However, the fact that The Lizard did have the ability to reason before this story arc diminishes the impact of this reveal. Continuity should be respected, don't you think? There should of been stories prior to this one that portrayed The Lizard as more primal as in McFarlane's classic Torment; but instead last time we saw The Lizard he was speaking and the stories never rendered any clues that The Lizard didn't grasp the understanding of machinery before. That's probably why I think this ending was hokey.

That's why I said the Lizard had Curt before to rely on for knowledge. Once it became the dominant, and Connors was vanquished, all the Lizard had was a blank slate.

[Combustible Pumpkins]

That's why I said the Lizard had Curt before to rely on for knowledge. Once it became the dominant, and Connors was vanquished, all the Lizard had was a blank slate.

So Connors was a filter? Meaning Connors was there all along? Therefore, in a sense, The Lizard was the consciousness of Connors as Spidey once suspected?

[Jim Thompson]

I went with the 'It ought to be addressed' option, primarily because the one I wanted wasn't there, that I think at some point they ought to explain why Peter was so shocked the Lizard could speak, but that it's nothing keeping me up at night. I think it's Peter's reaction that doesn't make any sense. The Lizard couldn't speak in Torment, either, but Peter's reaction there seemed more natural: "Why don't you say something?"

[Combustible Pumpkins]

I went with the 'It ought to be addressed' option, primarily because the one I wanted wasn't there, that I think at some point they ought to explain why Peter was so shocked the Lizard could speak, but that it's nothing keeping me up at night. I think it's Peter's reaction that doesn't make any sense. The Lizard couldn't speak in Torment, either, but Peter's reaction there seemed more natural: "Why don't you say something?"

Yes, good point. Spidey's reaction is what set me off originally, but when I reread it, The Lizard actually answers the question stating it's the monkey brain that allows him to speak.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

I just don't get why they killed Billy. Did they really need to do that to drive the point across? I don't want it to get retconned because I think that would be even dumber, but like, I think the idea of Connors struggling to be able to see his son but can't because of the Lizard is a cool premise.

Him not having a son, not so much. So now he's just totally Lizard? There is nothing human about him? There's a big theme in Spider-Man of humanity, whether it be good guy or bad. These people aren't straight up DC black and white characters (please don't quote me on that), but have a nice bit of humanity attached to them. Now the Lizard has none. Can they really do a Connors story again, or does he have to be the Lizard from now on?

I'm sure it'll get retconned once they realize that Dr. Connors is a big part of the mythology, but in a never-ending serial like this, it's just something you shouldn't do. If this was the last we EVER see the Lizard, then yeah, maybe. But it won't be, and now they don't have as much to work with. But maybe editorial knows more about it than the average reader can see.

[Combustible Pumpkins]

I just don't get why they killed Billy. Did they really need to do that to drive the point across? I don't want it to get retconned because I think that would be even dumber, but like, I think the idea of Connors struggling to be able to see his son but can't because of the Lizard is a cool premise.

Him not having a son, not so much. So now he's just totally Lizard? There is nothing human about him? There's a big theme in Spider-Man of humanity, whether it be good guy or bad. These people aren't straight up DC black and white characters (please don't quote me on that), but have a nice bit of humanity attached to them. Now the Lizard has none. Can they really do a Connors story again, or does he have to be the Lizard from now on?

I'm sure it'll get retconned once they realize that Dr. Connors is a big part of the mythology, but in a never-ending serial like this, it's just something you shouldn't do. If this was the last we EVER see the Lizard, then yeah, maybe. But it won't be, and now they don't have as much to work with. But maybe editorial knows more about it than the average reader can see.

No, they didn't have to kill Billy. That was way too much too soon, there was enough of a story there with Curt using the serum to hold The Lizard back. Perhaps this could of been the reason why The Lizard was more primal. Then have primal Lizard vs. Curt Connor for a while. Then a whole story arc could of then been about the death of Billy. I agree with you about the stories being more about humanity, but I think the death of Billy is an interesting plot element. It's just the way it happened so suddenly is what I disagree with. I like when comics have a smoother rhythm before hitting climax. I guess this was a problem with more than one writer on ASM, but we're beyond that now, so no point going there.

But dude, Connors is gone. PERIOD. He's no longer there. What we're dealing with now is The Lizard coming to grips with having emotions which isn't that interesting to me. So The Lizard is a misunderstood anti-hero now? I don't think so, keep him as a monster. Curt Connors has so much more stories to tell about him, more than just being a father although that's part of it. He has similarities to Peter, being a chemist, etc. I daresay, Connors should of found out who Spidey was, I mean they certainly have a long history of being friends and helping each other out.

[CyberHubbs]

I just don't get why they killed Billy. Did they really need to do that to drive the point across? I don't want it to get retconned because I think that would be even dumber, but like, I think the idea of Connors struggling to be able to see his son but can't because of the Lizard is a cool premise.

Him not having a son, not so much. So now he's just totally Lizard? There is nothing human about him? There's a big theme in Spider-Man of humanity, whether it be good guy or bad. These people aren't straight up DC black and white characters (please don't quote me on that), but have a nice bit of humanity attached to them. Now the Lizard has none. Can they really do a Connors story again, or does he have to be the Lizard from now on?

I'm sure it'll get retconned once they realize that Dr. Connors is a big part of the mythology, but in a never-ending serial like this, it's just something you shouldn't do. If this was the last we EVER see the Lizard, then yeah, maybe. But it won't be, and now they don't have as much to work with. But maybe editorial knows more about it than the average reader can see.

I thought the ending of SHED left the Lizard in a very human place. That is, him struggling with a newfound humanity. A sort of turnaround of the Jekyll & Hyde story. Instead of the human struggling with the monster inside, now it's the monster struggling with the human inside it.

[Jim Thompson]

I thought the ending of SHED left the Lizard in a very human place. That is, him struggling with a newfound humanity. A sort of turnaround of the Jekyll & Hyde story. Instead of the human struggling with the monster inside, now it's the monster struggling with the human inside it.Like the Hulk.

[CyberHubbs]

Like the Hulk.

I always felt it was the other way around for Hulk, but okay.

[Scott Taylor]

Recent depictions of the Hulk have been more the monster trying to deal with the human inside. Sort of following the "Hulk:The End" model.

Lizard isn't my favorite character. His character has always seemed very one-note to me, just a typical Jekyll and Hyde without much development one way or another for either the Lizard or Conners persona. But this development sounds interesting, even though the execution of the actual story does really sound bad - people's "lizard" brain?

Where he is as a character right now might make him more interesting in the future.

[whiteshark]

Many good points made in this thread already.

Have to say though that Shed was a fine story arc.

And the fact that Spider-Man was surprised that Lizard was talking made sense to me because in Amazing Spider-Man#631,Spidey tried to talk with Lizard and he did not talk.
And in ASM#632 after that Lizard was talking,so that surprise of Spider-Man made sense in the context of the story.

Plus in Torment,Lizard did not speak so Spider-Man would not be sure that Lizard can talk all the times.

[Mikey Brown]

I really liked the SHED arc. I liked that they did something new with the Lizard. How they got there, with the killing of his child was brutal, but it was done really well and probably wouldn't have worked with any other artist than Bachelo. I know he had some help in the latter issues but that part had to be all Bachelo for it to work, and I think it did. I like when they take chances on characters like this. Sometimes it doesn't work, but I think in this case Wells and Bachelo pulled it off.

[Tomacatawata]

I liked Billy's death. Drove the point accross and I belive one of the few times where he didn't come across as a generic comic child.

[Combustible Pumpkins]

Lizard isn't my favorite character. His character has always seemed very one-note to me, just a typical Jekyll and Hyde without much development one way or another for either the Lizard or Conners persona. But this development sounds interesting, even though the execution of the actual story does really sound bad - people's "lizard" brain?

Where he is as a character right now might make him more interesting in the future.

Yeah, I don't necessarily dislike where The Lizard is, just pretty much the execution of this story wasn't that good, or in the very least felt really rushed.

As far as The Lizard being boring prior to this, it's probably because the writers couldn't do much with him, especially in the era where very few characters were allowed to know Spidey's secret ID.


Many good points made in this thread already.

Have to say though that Shed was a fine story arc.

And the fact that Spider-Man was surprised that Lizard was talking made sense to me because in Amazing Spider-Man#631,Spidey tried to talk with Lizard and he did not talk.
And in ASM#632 after that Lizard was talking,so that surprise of Spider-Man made sense in the context of the story.

Plus in Torment,Lizard did not speak so Spider-Man would not be sure that Lizard can talk all the times.

I don't think it can be interpreted that way. Here's the panels. Spidey is shocked The Lizard is speaking, and Lizzy tells him why. So this violates continuity in a really big way. It lessens the intended impact of the reveal for long-time readers. I guess if you're newer to Spidey, none of this would matter.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/wotsreal/ASM632talking.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/wotsreal/ASM632moretalking.jpg

[whiteshark]

I don't think it can be interpreted that way. Here's the panels. Spidey is shocked The Lizard is speaking, and Lizzy tells him why. So this violates continuity in a really big way. It lessens the intended impact of the reveal for long-time readers. I guess if you're newer to Spidey, none of this would matter.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/wotsreal/ASM632talking.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/wotsreal/ASM632moretalking.jpg

I guess i have just a different interpretation of that.

Because that line of dialog of Spider-Man toward the Lizard,in which Spidey look surprised and going to quote "You are talking" did not seem to me to be as Spider-Man was saying as he never saw Lizard talking.
Rather just a normal surprise to see that Lizard was actually capable of talking,after Spider-Man tried to talk with the Lizard in Amazing Spider-Man#631 to which Lizard did not talked back.

And in the Torment storyline,the Lizard was not talking as well.
So its not far fetched to assume that Spider-Man would be not sure if Lizard would talk all the times.
At least thats my reasoning to explain that dialog from Amazing Spider-Man#632.

[John Zaleski]

wheres the IT WAS F'NG AWESOME option?

[Combustible Pumpkins]

I guess i have just a different interpretation of that.

Because that line of dialog of Spider-Man toward the Lizard,in which Spidey look surprised and going to quote "You are talking" did not seem to me to be as Spider-Man was saying as he never saw Lizard talking.
Rather just a normal surprise to see that Lizard was actually capable of talking,after Spider-Man tried to talk with the Lizard in Amazing Spider-Man#631 to which Lizard did not talked back.

And in the Torment storyline,the Lizard was not talking as well.
So its not far fetched to assume that Spider-Man would be not sure if Lizard would talk all the times.
At least thats my reasoning to explain that dialog from Amazing Spider-Man#632.

Yeah, but the Lizard clearly states Connors always resided in the language centers of the brain, so therefore the Lizard never spoke before.


wheres the IT WAS F'NG AWESOME option?

You know, i wanted to edit and rephrase some of the options, but I couldn't. Maybe Mets or Shaggy could include that and change the wording if appropriate.

[John Zaleski]

You know, i wanted to edit and rephrase some of the options, but I couldn't. Maybe Mets or Shaggy could include that and change the wording if appropriate.



i don't think mine would be the appropriate wording tehe

[Dr Folsome]

I usually don't post over here at CBR...sorry i'm just jumping in here...


The Lizard couldn't speak in Torment, either, but Peter's reaction there seemed more natural: "Why don't you say something?"

The Lizard was under Calypso's mind control throughout that arc, so his non-speaking can be explained by the fact that he was basically a zombie...otherwise, the Lizard has spoken in more arcs than not...granted its with a lisp, but still he's talker alright...

theres no logical explanation, imo, for the Peter not to know that the Lizard can talk...wait, there's one--Wells f'd up :wink:

[Jim Thompson]

I usually don't post over here at CBR...sorry i'm just jumping in here...

The Lizard was under Calypso's mind control throughout that arc, so his non-speaking can be explained by the fact that he was basically a zombie...otherwise, the Lizard has spoken in more arcs than not...granted its with a lisp, but still he's talker alright...

theres no logical explanation, imo, for the Peter not to know that the Lizard can talk...wait, there's one--Wells f'd up :wink:Welcome to the boards!

[Mister Mets]

So you like the first issue, you think the second issue starts off weak and that the third issue has a brilliant moment.

And your grade for the storyline as a whole is an F, largely due to a continuity error?

[coconutphone]

Everytime I see this thread I misread it as "Schmed" and think it's a poll about whether or not he is lame. I get excited to vote until I see it's just about that Lizard story. :frown:

[Schmed]

Everytime I see this thread I misread it as "Schmed" and think it's a poll about whether or not he is lame. I get excited to vote until I see it's just about that Lizard story. :frown:

And what way were you going to vote pray tell??? :evilangry:

[coconutphone]

And what way were you going to vote pray tell??? :evilangry:

If there was a "SUPER LAME STUPID HEAD!" option I'd be mighty tempted.... but then so would "He's not lame, he's my bother..."

Have you run that errand yet? That will help determine my answer.

[Schmed]

If there was a "SUPER LAME STUPID HEAD!" option I'd be mighty tempted.... but then so would "He's not lame, he's my bother..."

Have you run that errand yet? That will help determine my answer.


No, I never left the house today, and I just ordered sushi.... :redface: but tomorrow, I have made the Wifey promise to make me do it too. SO YOU BETTER BE NICE YOU SON OF A BITCH!!!

[coconutphone]

No, I never left the house today, and I just ordered sushi.... :redface: but tomorrow, I have made the Wifey promise to make me do it too. SO YOU BETTER BE NICE YOU SON OF A BITCH!!!

Fine... if this hypothetical thread actually existed I wouldn't not vote 'not lame'.

HAPPY!?

You sonofabitch...

$10 says you get mine before you mail yours :tongue:



*$10 cyberdollars

[Schmed]

Fine... if this hypothetical thread actually existed I wouldn't not vote 'not lame'.

HAPPY!?

You sonofabitch...

$10 says you get mine before you mail yours :tongue:



*$10 cyberdollars

You know me too well.....just to spite you I'm mailing it tomorrow! IN YOUR FACE!!!

[E. Wilson]

So you like the first issue, you think the second issue starts off weak and that the third issue has a brilliant moment.

And your grade for the storyline as a whole is an F, largely due to a continuity error?

The bell curve is a harsh mistress.

[Jim Thompson]

So you like the first issue, you think the second issue starts off weak and that the third issue has a brilliant moment.

And your grade for the storyline as a whole is an F, largely due to a continuity error?People have been known to produce works which show a little promise, but still have fatal flaws that keep those works from succeeding. :biggrin:

[coconutphone]

People have been known to produce works which show a little promise, but still have fatal flaws that keep those works from succeeding. :biggrin:

Like Schmitty!

Sure he was a cute baby but then it went all so horribly wrong... :frown:

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I see how this really irks some, but IMO the story was so enjoyable it doesn't bother me. It's probably one of my favorite BND stories.

[Mister Mets]

People have been known to produce works which show a little promise, but still have fatal flaws that keep those works from succeeding. :biggrin:

And the grade for those works is not an "F."

Unless you're my high school Drafting teacher.

[Jim Thompson]

And the grade for those works is not an "F."I don't think that can be said with any kind of certainty. It would depend on the nature and scope of the flaw, don't you think?

[Jim Thompson]

And the grade for those works is not an "F."

Unless you're my high school Drafting teacher.Probably because a flaw in drafting can result in some fairly significant troubles down the line. :biggrin:

[oldschool]

I see how this really irks some, but IMO the story was so enjoyable it doesn't bother me. It's probably one of my favorite BND stories.

Kinda how I feel. These (smaller) continuity quirks used to bug me quite a bit more way back in the 80's but, as time has moved on, and I have read literally thousands upon thousands of comics in my life I empathize with creators not being beholden to every bit of continuity so long as the finished product is worth whatever "transgression" they may have made.

Like you, I thought "shed" was a superb story and fit nicely into the overall excellent "Gauntlet" arc; like the Rhino story earlier this year, I think it may have been one of the very finest stories written for the respective characters.

[Jim Thompson]

Kinda how I feel. These (smaller) continuity quirks used to bug me quite a bit more way back in the 80's but, as time has moved on, and I have read literally thousands upon thousands of comics in my life I empathize with creators not being beholden to every bit of continuity so long as the finished product is worth whatever "transgression" they may have made.

Like you, I thought "shed" was a superb story and fit nicely into the overall excellent "Gauntlet" arc; like the Rhino story earlier this year, I think it may have been one of the very finest stories written for the respective characters.Hey, happy it worked for both of you. I just didn't think it was all that enjoyable.

[Combustible Pumpkins]

So you like the first issue, you think the second issue starts off weak and that the third issue has a brilliant moment.

And your grade for the storyline as a whole is an F, largely due to a continuity error?

Yes, largely due to the break in continuity. Wouldn't you agree the impact of the reveal that Lizard speaks now is greatly lessened by the fact that he mostly spoke before?

So that drove it down to the D rating. Having Spidey almost taken out by the mind controlled Lizard crowd was what brought it down to a complete F. I might of understood if Spidey was simply too worn out due to the events of the Guantlet, but not wanting to hurt the people therefor Spidey forfeits his own life? That was just so lame, it seemed like a rushed and overly contrived plot device. It would of been way cooler if Lizard just flat out beat Spidey, and almost killed him. Do you see where I'm coming from?


Everytime I see this thread I misread it as "Schmed" and think it's a poll about whether or not he is lame. I get excited to vote until I see it's just about that Lizard story. :frown:

Hey! You guys are friends! I think I get that now. :biggrin: jk


I see how this really irks some, but IMO the story was so enjoyable it doesn't bother me. It's probably one of my favorite BND stories.

That's understandable. There were some aspects I truly like, but I agree with JT's fatally flawed theory.

Probably because a flaw in drafting can result in some fairly significant troubles down the line. :biggrin:

Great point!