X-men version of Civil War ?

[CMBMOOL]

While they weren't involved too much in the Marvel Universe event, in the aftermath of Second Coming, the decisions of Cyclops come home to roast and while we do learn that it happen off-panel, it seems to show that Scott is different than that of Xavier and Storm and how he strands away from the dream.

One could question them both what would have happen if they were invovled from the start ?

Would they be any better than he would ?

Still it makes one question, that a War is brewing within the X-men and in a way the rest of the Marvel Universe is caught in the middle.

What do you all think about it ? :frown:

[fortyseven]

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if these things eventually lead to a rift forming between the X-Men.
Scott's realy screwing himself over though if one were to come. He's really finding a wait to piss off every character.

He fired Rogue, so she's not happy.
Storm laughed in his face.
Iceman asked if the Avengers are hiring, so we know he wants to leave.
Beast is already gone.
Hope hates him.
Wolverine's doing his own X-Force now, against Scott's wishes.
Xavier and him aren't really on the greatest of terms.

If there would be an X-Men Civil War, I could see Scott being the 'Tony Stark' of it and using the villans on Utopia to up his ranks. Except it would possibly end with Scott's arrest or something... I dunno.

I do hope that Scott does eventually have to deal with the consequences of what he's done concerning X-Force. I like Cyclops, but it needs to happen.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Will Emma die during this crossover? If so, make it happen, BUT ROGUE AND ANOLE LIVES!

[Slant]

I actually the worst is over, just going off what the future looks like. Scott's not behind X-Force anymore and mutants are slowly being repowered, meaning the desperate choices aren't going to be there as much. I think any future problems will just be dealt with like Beast.

[Daniel Mengsk]

No X-Men Civil War, please. The idea of the X-Men going into yet another war is just too tiresome at the moment. And besides, they have a big vampire problem to take care of.

[Slant]

I don't think they'll be a split on a big scale for a long while. Even with the 5 more mutants, they're still around 200, and most of them are going to be in the same general area.

And since X-Force is out in the open and Scott's already done with it (to his knowledge), that was the biggest determinant in a split, and since Hope is here Scott's not going to push the line as much as he did waiting for her.

So they really don't have anything to cause a big split.

[Werehunter]

This for me depends on just how much X-Force is out in the open. Did Scott tell people everything they did or do they just know the very basics? Some of the things Scott decided in regards to X-Force would likely highly piss off a number of characters.

[Valerie]

Yeah, Cyke's misdeeds are out in the open, unless for some strange reason Storm and Beast go uncharacteristically silent.

[Werehunter]

I'm talking the specifics of X-force's action, not the fact they exist. So far I'm only heard characters talking about X-force in general terms. Not things like Scott leaving Meltdown to die to send X-force into the future and such. Things like that might make some turn on Scott more then just the fact he had a team like X-force.

[S_Rhoades]

Bc he had X Force do what they did isn't Scott now no different than Magneto? I mean by any means necessary seems a little different than the dream that Xavier fought for.

[mikekerr3]

Bc he had X Force do what they did isn't Scott now no different than Magneto? I mean by any means necessary seems a little different than the dream that Xavier fought for.

The dream Xavier fought for was only a dream, It died with a bus full of dead children and flamethrowers in nurseries.

By any means necessary, is far preferable to committing suicide by following a dream that was never more than a fantasy.

[DavidMunroe]

I have been saying this for about a year now.


Would love to see it actually.

Storm Vs. Cyclops (we all know how that has ended in the past, 3peat)

Xavier Vs. Emma


Anyone think of other cool Vs. and who would be on wich side?

[Michael_Caesar]

im rooting for storm and xavier, i dont get why people here hate him so much he can be around without being their leader.

[Havok83]

While they weren't involved too much in the Marvel Universe event, in the aftermath of Second Coming, the decisions of Cyclops come home to roast and while we do learn that it happen off-panel, it seems to show that Scott is different than that of Xavier and Storm and how he strands away from the dream.

One could question them both what would have happen if they were invovled from the start ?

Would they be any better than he would ?

Still it makes one question, that a War is brewing within the X-men and in a way the rest of the Marvel Universe is caught in the middle.

What do you all think about it ? :frown:We've already had several splits in the Xmen's history due to disagreement of tactics, leadership and overal lack of trust. There was the formation of X-factor in the mid 80s and Storm's X-treme X-men at the beginning of this century

[KusaSan]

Hope hates him.


Actually with the last Uncanny we can say it's not true anymore and that she understood his action.

Rogue is not happy but she understand too from the interview of one of the staff.

No it seems to me that there will be no split because of SC since Ororo is still around in X-Men and that Scott doesn't use X-Force anymore. As it was said in an interview, the 5 light gived reason to Scott's action and so saved his position as the leader of mutant species. No I think it gived him even more credit as a leader.

[KusaSan]

Storm Vs. Cyclops (we all know how that has ended in the past, 3peat)

I'm glad that Storm is not like some her fan.

Btw, come to think of it, it's not the time for the X-Men to split. There are not enough mutant for this kind of thing. Maybe that's wgy Ororo deosn't want to leave. And maybe it's better for her, Scott and them, to have her help Scott instead of just saying what he has done is bad and bla bla bla.

[DavidMunroe]

I'm glad that Storm is not like some her fan.


http://www.gifsoup.com/view/656148/nicki-eye-roll-o.gif

[Slant]

There also will not be any significant split because the writers are comfortable with the current setup. I think they like the fact that they can choose just whoever they want depending on the arc. There's at least 3 books that work like that.

So, again, I think its a long ways off if it ever happens.

[CMBMOOL]

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if these things eventually lead to a rift forming between the X-Men.
Scott's realy screwing himself over though if one were to come. He's really finding a wait to piss off every character.

He fired Rogue, so she's not happy.
Storm laughed in his face.
Iceman asked if the Avengers are hiring, so we know he wants to leave.
Beast is already gone.
Hope hates him.
Wolverine's doing his own X-Force now, against Scott's wishes.
Xavier and him aren't really on the greatest of terms.

If there would be an X-Men Civil War, I could see Scott being the 'Tony Stark' of it and using the villans on Utopia to up his ranks. Except it would possibly end with Scott's arrest or something... I dunno.

I do hope that Scott does eventually have to deal with the consequences of what he's done concerning X-Force. I like Cyclops, but it needs to happen.

Well according to the "Fear itself" teasers, we may just get that wish.

I also hope that Storm maybe on the frontlines for this battle of idealolgies, again. Because if Cyclops is Tony Stark then Storm is the Steve Rogers of the event. :tongue:

[Omega Alpha]

There aren't neither reasons or enough mutants for a big split.

And Cyclops made some people mad. Guess what? That's what everybody that ever had any authority did. You that was never mad with a decision by your parents when you were young, your boss, or the major of your city, the president of your country, etc, please raise your hand!

[Valeria Kementari]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/XMWorldsApart04Page014.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/valechan/XMWorldsApart04Page016.jpg

[LordAllMighty]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/656148/nicki-eye-roll-o.gif

Ha, stealing that.:biggrin:

[CMBMOOL]

There aren't neither reasons or enough mutants for a big split.

And Cyclops made some people mad. Guess what? That's what everybody that ever had any authority did. You that was never mad with a decision by your parents when you were young, your boss, or the major of your city, the president of your country, etc, please raise your hand!

The problem with that was that he did the exact same thing that Xavier did only a bit worse. :frown:

[LordAllMighty]

I would personally love it but I think the writers have been on this Pro-Cyke run a little to long, I doubt they would do something like that.:frown:

[worstblogever]

Amazing. I was thinking about this just the other day, and didn't start the thread, for whatever reason. But it is a great question.

You have to ask yourself, if Utopia was to have a schism, would there only be two sides, or more? And who would go where? What would make people go to which side? Fears of fascism? Isolation from humanity? The role of Hope in the future of mutants?



Cyclops- De Facto leader, leader of X-Men
Storm- Queen of Wakanda, former leader of X-Men
Namor- King of Atlantis, could claim Utopia as part of the sovereign nation of Atlantis, as the pillar supporting it is...
Emma Frost- Former White Queen of the Hellfire Club, Cyclops' current paramour
Magneto- Former leader of Genosha, Brotherhood, Acolytes, has many former followers on the island
Angel- Current co-leader of X-Force, former head of a squad of X-Men, bankroller of the original X-Factor, current X-Men. Money talks.
Charles Xavier- Original leader of the X-Men, currently a part of the Marvel Illuminati, has a lot of clout with mutants...



Those are your key players at the head of the table, I'd think. But with soldiers like Hope and the Five Lights, Rogue and her new students, Beast and the X-Club, Wolverine and X-Force, the New Mutants, Hellion and the rest of New X-Men, the former Brotherhood members...

Factions would develop. It seems unlikely that there would only be two, a la Pro-Reg and Anti-Reg from Marvel: Civil War. But there would definitely be some intrigue in a story like this.

[upmiddowntown]

Yeah a Civil War is coming within the group.
Hopefully it will stay contained with the X-groups and not spill into the rest of the marvel universe.

[RolandJP]

I'm glad that Storm is not like some her fan.

Btw, come to think of it, it's not the time for the X-Men to split. There are not enough mutant for this kind of thing. Maybe that's wgy Ororo deosn't want to leave. And maybe it's better for her, Scott and them, to have her help Scott instead of just saying what he has done is bad and bla bla bla.

Yeah, cause its always better to capitulate. Even when a leader makes bad decisions. two of your best friends are killed. Nightcrawler. Bishop goes crazy. And Scott doesnt feel fit to tell you what is happening. You have to hear about it from CNN>

Just let it slide and keep following them. It will only get better right??

[Omega Alpha]

The problem with that was that he did the exact same thing that Xavier did only a bit worse. :frown:

Xavier manipulated and mind-wipe other people's minds, enslave sentinent intelligent life forms, and formed a Cabal of metahumans to secretely control the superhuman community.

So, no, Cyclops didn't do the exact thing Xavier did, let alone much worse. Xavier's mistakes were so bad that the last one that came back to haunt him (the Infinity Gems) might result in the entire universe ending.


Yeah, cause its always better to capitulate. Even when a leader makes bad decisions. two of your best friends are killed. Nightcrawler. Bishop goes crazy. And Scott doesnt feel fit to tell you what is happening. You have to hear about it from CNN>

Just let it slide and keep following them. It will only get better right??

Nightcrawler was murdered by a bad guy while saving a life, not Cyclops' fault by any means.

Bishop becoming a mass murderer has nothing to do with Cyclops either.

[Regino]

Bishop becoming a mass murderer has nothing to do with Cyclops either.

Yeah it does. If Cyclops would have just gave Bishop the girl then Bishop wouldn't have had to kill everyone in the future.

[RolandJP]

So the leader of the X-men is not responsible for what his people do. If a Sergeant in the military loses a soldier, or one goes off and murders a lot of peeps..He is brought in for review. At least he is asked, what went wrong.

[Justin K.]

The whole Cyclops bit is getting old, him leading and him being in a civil war both. While there are teaser images of him sporting a familiar helmet and costume, part of me thinks it will all fall back down to Xavier and Magneto facing each other, in spite of the lack of Xavier. If not that, something close to their beliefs, though with both changing in recent years, I can't help but wonder if Charlie will be the Magneto, and Magneto will be the Xavier in this case. Mutants clashing may seem a little off too, due to X-Factor's distancing frm the rest of mutant-kind, though I wouldn't doubt a tie in of some sort...

[Regino]

The new Onslaught should be Cyke + Void sliver.

[Count Yoda]

Amazing. I was thinking about this just the other day, and didn't start the thread, for whatever reason. But it is a great question.

You have to ask yourself, if Utopia was to have a schism, would there only be two sides, or more? And who would go where? What would make people go to which side? Fears of fascism? Isolation from humanity? The role of Hope in the future of mutants?



Cyclops- De Facto leader, leader of X-Men
Storm- Queen of Wakanda, former leader of X-Men
Namor- King of Atlantis, could claim Utopia as part of the sovereign nation of Atlantis, as the pillar supporting it is...
Emma Frost- Former White Queen of the Hellfire Club, Cyclops' current paramour
Magneto- Former leader of Genosha, Brotherhood, Acolytes, has many former followers on the island
Angel- Current co-leader of X-Force, former head of a squad of X-Men, bankroller of the original X-Factor, current X-Men. Money talks.
Charles Xavier- Original leader of the X-Men, currently a part of the Marvel Illuminati, has a lot of clout with mutants...



Those are your key players at the head of the table, I'd think. But with soldiers like Hope and the Five Lights, Rogue and her new students, Beast and the X-Club, Wolverine and X-Force, the New Mutants, Hellion and the rest of New X-Men, the former Brotherhood members...

Factions would develop. It seems unlikely that there would only be two, a la Pro-Reg and Anti-Reg from Marvel: Civil War. But there would definitely be some intrigue in a story like this.

Hm, I think it may be even more complicated than just multiple factions, for I think some of the relationships are so complex that there could be three main factions with a few disticnt sub factions in each. Now, I am not an expert on the relations of mutants but I could see a break down a tad bit like this:
*Cyclops led organization, advocating survival:
-Namor and his Atlanteans because Namor knows how hard it can be for a broken people, and then there is the Emma connection. However, they could still be rather suspicious of the mutants.
-A portion of mutants who like Cyclops feel that the time for ideals has passed. However, that does not mean they agree with everything Cyclops does.
-Wolverine and the members of X-force, along with other mutants who follow Wolverine, if I recall correctly, it has been established that Wolverine respect Cyclops, at least somewhat, for some of his recent actions.
-Perhaps even a segment of some who are reluctant to leave Cyclops' side because it could be seen by them as the evolution of the original X-men, thus not wanting to leave that group out of some sort of sense of nostalgia. Also, includes more follower minded characters.
*A Magneto led organization, advocating a return to glory for mutants:
-Hope and her five lights are an obvious inclusion, as Hope is tired of just survival, and as stated in the most recent Generation Hope already sees a philosphical schism between her and Cyclops.
-Rogue, might be here due to either Magneto or Hope, but she could bring along some of the younger mutants in hopes of showing a more positive outlook on the situation
-Most likely a motley crew of past associates of Magneto who wish to relive the past.
*The most difficult organization to design because there is not a clear candidate for third-party leader. Though this is most likely the organization that would cause the most conflict. Potentially, the return of a character such as Exodus would be great for this. This is the organization that requires somebody with more knowledge of the fine details to plan.

[JeanGreyForever]

Cyke vs Jean. Then they make up and everything goes back to normal.

[worstblogever]

*The most difficult organization to design because there is not a clear candidate for third-party leader. Though this is most likely the organization that would cause the most conflict. Potentially, the return of a character such as Exodus would be great for this. This is the organization that requires somebody with more knowledge of the fine details to plan.

Really? Any one of the folks I highlighted I could see as a faction leader. Scott's supposedly "the third way" already... with Xavier being the original, Magneto as the hard line way. Seeing Storm, Emma, Angel, Namor, all forced to pick a side in that, or form still their own could be fascinating.

Meanwhile, there's 180-odd mutants who could fall into a group under any faction for control of Utopia.

[drownedbyimmolation]

With an emphasis on discussion, rather than fighting, I would love this. I would love some shifting around of allegiances as well, and I see smarter arguments and criticisms for characters behavior and actions on message boards, than the characters themselves. I could imagine the intimate character moments as some of the opinionated X-Men try to sway and rally over some of the more passive X-Men, mutants, to their side, and the fun of seeing in larger groups, X-Men call each other out, be more abrupt, blunt and potentially insulting. Verbal daggers would be thrown, and old wounds reopened.

Would be great, and would build up to the reunification of X-Men as a concept and also allow for flexible story telling. Different characters, different books, revitalize certain characters and build up newer ones.


Those are some cool ideas and points Count Yoda and WBE.

[Obsidian Thought]

I could see a Civil War erupting on Utopia about mutants place in society and world.

Every mutant doesn't feel the same about their existence. Some may believe they still are superior to homo sapiens, some could care less and some may just want to use their powers to rape, plunder and kill.

I see "paradise" falling soon...and the X-men will be in the middle of it.

[Rheged]

This could be a great storyline ... but I seriously doubt Fraction and the X-office would let anything tarnish Scott's allegedly perfect leadership.

[CMBMOOL]

Xavier manipulated and mind-wipe other people's minds, enslave sentinent intelligent life forms, and formed a Cabal of metahumans to secretely control the superhuman community.

So, no, Cyclops didn't do the exact thing Xavier did, let alone much worse. Xavier's mistakes were so bad that the last one that came back to haunt him (the Infinity Gems) might result in the entire universe ending.


Let's try this again, what I mean is that both Cyclops and Xavier kept secrets from th other X-men that resulted in the lost of trust within the team.

[Regino]

Let's try this again, what I mean is that both Cyclops and Xavier kept secrets from th other X-men that resulted in the lost of trust within the team.

Only Beast cared when Cyke kept a secret. Everyone else is cool with it.

[Omega Alpha]

Let's try this again, what I mean is that both Cyclops and Xavier kept secrets from th other X-men that resulted in the lost of trust within the team.

It isn't comparable. Scott's secret was keeping a black-ops team secret from some (and the point of black-ops teams is to be secretive). Xavier's secrets nearly resulted in the death of the X-men twice, and in the death of at least Banshee, Corsair, and a student, plus a mad man taking over the Shi'ar, and now may result in the entire universe ending.

[Count Yoda]

Really? Any one of the folks I highlighted I could see as a faction leader. Scott's supposedly "the third way" already... with Xavier being the original, Magneto as the hard line way. Seeing Storm, Emma, Angel, Namor, all forced to pick a side in that, or form still their own could be fascinating.

Meanwhile, there's 180-odd mutants who could fall into a group under any faction for control of Utopia.

I am just thinking of a leader with a mindset that would counteractive to both of the main ones I listed, but still the one causing conflict. As I said, I am not an expert in any way on mutant relations, but if Cyclops' side is just aiming for survival, while the Magneto/Hope one is aiming at a return of mutants to some sort of prominence, those two mindsets would not be inclined to conflict with each other.

That is why I brought up someone like Exodus, for he most certainly has his own mindset of what is best for mutants, and is likely to come into conflict with other factions, yet then I am not sure who would follow him.

As for not having Xavier as one of the main factions? Looking at the way I broke it down (which is just one way, there are of course other ways to break it down where Xavier would have a faction), he could fit as a subset in either of the factions I set out.

As for some of the ones you listed? It is just that so many of them are so interconnected that I could not see them making their own faction when they could potentially alreadly fall into one of the main factions, potentially even creating a sub-faction.

[LordAllMighty]

Only Beast cared when Cyke kept a secret. Everyone else is cool with it.

Which shows you just how out of character most of the X-Folks are.:frown:

[Regino]

It isn't comparable. Scott's secret was keeping a black-ops team secret from some (and the point of black-ops teams is to be secretive). Xavier's secrets nearly resulted in the death of the X-men twice, and in the death of at least Banshee, Corsair, and a student, plus a mad man taking over the Shi'ar, and now may result in the entire universe ending.

Keeping a murder squad is worse than keeping the death of your students hidden.

[Mystique25]

Keeping a murder squad is worse than keeping the death of your students hidden.

They really need to go back to Storm as team leader. I don't remember there ever being the problem of hiding dead students or death squads during her time as leader.

[Omega Alpha]

Keeping a murder squad is worse than keeping the death of your students hidden.

No, sending untrained students to face certain death and then mind-wipe one of your students to make sure he didn't remember your mistakes is worse.

X-force needed to exist, Scott wasn't wrong about it all, and if he hadn't created it most likely all the X-men would be dead already, or at least the majority. His mistake was not telling some of the people that should know.



They really need to go back to Storm as team leader. I don't remember there ever being the problem of hiding dead students or death squads during her time as leader.

No, you had a problem of hiding dead X-men, all of them.

[Regino]

No, sending untrained students to face certain death and then mind-wipe one of your students to make sure he didn't remember your mistakes is worse.

X-force needed to exist, Scott wasn't wrong about it all, and if he hadn't created it most likely all the X-men would be dead already, or at least the majority. His mistake was not telling some of the people that should know.




Trying to save someone is noble. Murder is vile. X-force did not need to exist. What did they accomplish? For all the Purifiers that they murdered, the Purifiers still exist. Once news gets out about the murders, the X-men will be looked at differently by humanity. Humans will be scared. "If you aren't nice to the mutants, they will murder you." You can't go kill hundreds of people on American soil and be a good guy.

[Dupe1979]

Factions:

Cyclops - Leading an isolationist defensive survivalist regiment feeling like he is shouldering the responsibility for perserving the mutant population.

Hope - Leading the reemergence of mutants as a promienent force.

Beast - leading the dedication to the dream of peaceful co-existence, this could bring in the Seceret Avengers, (ie Steve Rogers and maybe a suspicion of government aisstence/manipulation) into the mix along with what mutants Beast could bring into his fold, but I would like involvement of the MU at large to be limited.

You could have a fourth more malicious group as well trying to exploit the tensions simply to give vent to their pent up hostilities at the abuses suffered since M Day and the isolation first at the Xavier Mansion and now in Utopia... Toad would be a great spokeman for this more anarchistic group.

Basically I could see the Magneto/Xavier philosophical battle being at the centre of this, however with both those characters still relegated more to the background. Beast and Hope leading the known philosophies and Cyke trying to choose the choice not to choose.

I'd wager some of the more indoctrinated old school X-Men going to Beast, a lot of the younger kids sticking to Cyclops, Hopes generation and the more conflicted characters/reformed villains going with her, (hinting the idea Hope might be fulfilling Bishops fears).

I love the X-Factor crew but I would like to still keep them out of the main crossover, maybe show them sympathetic to Beast with maybe a side story or something but for the most part leave PAD alone to do his thing.

[turtletrekker]

Honestly, I have no problem with what Cyke did. You have to put it in his perpective. Scott wasn't acting from the perspective of the leader of a team of "good-guy" superheroes, he was acting from the perspective of the leader of an entire race on the verge of extinction. Not just danger room-trained soldiers who know what they are getting into, but civilians and non-combatants as well.

The threat presented to mutant-kind as a whole by Bastion and his cronies was no less than extinction itself. In all ways except name, a state of war existed between Bastion and mutant-kind. As the leader of mutant-kind, Scott did what he felt he needed to do to protect his species from active, open warfare against them. Would any of you not expect the leaders of your nation to do any less in your defense?

If this were a real world situation, I would regret the necessity of Cyclops actions, but neither would I doubt the necessity. And Cyke did (and least to his knowledge) disband X-Force after the immediate threat of extinction was over, and he did it for the right reasons. Now, if it turns out that he can't adjust to peace-time leadership, then it may be time for him pass the torch of leadership on to someone else.

[Regino]

Honestly, I have no problem with what Cyke did. You have to put it in his perpective. Scott wasn't acting from the perspective of the leader of a team of "good-guy" superheroes, he was acting from the perspective of the leader of an entire race on the verge of extinction. Not just danger room-trained soldiers who know what they are getting into, but civilians and non-combatants as well.

The threat presented to mutant-kind as a whole by Bastion and his cronies was no less than extinction itself. In all ways except name, a state of war existed between Bastion and mutant-kind. As the leader of mutant-kind, Scott did what he felt he needed to do to protect his species from active, open warfare against them. Would any of you not expect the leaders of your nation to do any less in your defense?

If this were a real world situation, I would regret the necessity of Cyclops actions, but neither would I doubt the necessity. And Cyke did (and least to his knowledge) disband X-Force after the immediate threat of extinction was over, and he did it for the right reasons. Now, if it turns out that he can't adjust to peace-time leadership, then it may be time for him pass the torch of leadership on to someone else.

So, to sum this up, we should be allowed to kill racists. That sounds reasonable.

[turtletrekker]

^ That is in no conceivable way, shape or form what I said, but thank you, oh, so very much, for putting words in my mouth. Would Jews in Nazi death camps be condemned for killing Nazis or attempting to preserve their lives? Don't forget, that in the 1st arc of X-Force, with less than 200 mutants in the entire world, Bastion gave at least that many humans Archangel wings for the sole purpose of killing mutants. Should mutant-kind meekly have meekly, "oh well, they are trying to kill us, so we should just let them without resistance because killing them first would be wrong?" What part of "state of war" didn't you understand? What part of "verge of extinction" didn't you get? Civilians and non-combatants? Bastion and his followers went beyond mere racism (which I abhor) and into the realm of terrorism (which is far worse).

Sometimes being the leader of a people means making hard choices. If Storm or the Beast, or even Professor X had been leading the X-Men in this era of their history, Mutant-kind would be a memory. Over-whelmed by superior numbers. In a perfect world, moral purity would be an option in a case like this. However, I don't think any of us are naive enough to think the either we or the X-Men live in a perfect world.

If you were Cyclops what would you have done to protect your people? The civilians and the non-combatants? Turn the bad guys over to the authorities? When you already knew that Bastion had infiltrated SHIELD? Within a day, these terrorists would be attempting to exterminate mutants again. Is extinction a preferable option to you?

[Skaddix]

I got say Cyke seems to be having a lot of knowledge gaps. He does not know about X-force and is unaware that Frost is running a secret prison. Now x-force is conceivable because logan and fantomex are always out and about while psylocke and angel could be on date but a secret prison on utopia, come on.

[Skaddix]

^ That is in no conceivable way, shape or form what I said, but thank you, oh, so very much for putting words in my mouth. Would Jews in death camps be condemned for killing Nazis?

Nope but Jews in death camps don't have awesome powers that allow them to decimate nazi forces. Also mutants were not in death camps so this comparison kinda fails on multiple levels.

[Rothstien-Smash]

Neither do most racist kooks living in real life have access to super-weaponry with a higher tech level than the military, but they do in comics. Nor do the real world organizations have government funding like several of the "wipe all mutants out" groups seem to get.

The creation of X-force isn't a black and white thing. There are good reason to have done so, and good reasons not to have done so.

[turtletrekker]

Nope but Jews in death camps don't have awesome powers that allow them to decimate nazi forces. Also mutants were not in death camps so this comparison kinda fails on multiple levels.


Not really as it was never in tended to be a direct comparison. Besides, we (and the X-Men) know that in multiple futures, mutants do indeed wind up in death camps.

The point I was making was that Bastion's stance towards mutants, as with the Nazi's position toward the Jews, was one of complete extermination. No compromise.

I would like to point out that even Captain America killed during war. He didn't like it, but regretably knew that it couldn't be avoided. Should he be condemned as well? I would also like to point out that Cyclops did not start this war of extinction against mutant-kind, but did what he felt had to be done to win it. Should FDR be condemned as a murderer for going to war after Pearl Harbor? For defending the people he was sworn to protect? This not a simple black-and-white issue, as well it shouldn't be, for black-and-white issues make for bland and boring storytelling.

[Regino]

Not really as it was never in tended to be a direct comparison. Besides, we (and the X-Men) know that in multiple futures, mutants do indeed wind up in death camps.

You made the direct comparison and Skaddix nailed you on it before I could. Can't take that back now. Helpless people versus mutants with extraordinary powers. Huge difference. If you notice, the only futures we read about the bad ones. If the future is good, then you aren't going to go back in time.



The point I was making was that Bastion's stance towards mutants, as with the Nazi's position toward the Jews, was one of complete extermination. No compromise.

I would like to point out that even Captain America killed during war. He didn't like it, but regretably knew that it couldn't be avoided. Should he be condemned as well? I would also like to point out that Cyclops did not start this war of extinction against mutant-kind, but did what he felt had to be done to win it. Should FDR be condemned as a murderer for going to war after Pearl Harbor? For defending the people he was sworn to protect? This not a simple black-and-white issue, as well it shouldn't be, for black-and-white issues make for bland and boring storytelling.

Why do you think it is a war? A war is between two countries. The X-men are not a country. When one gang attacks another gang that is gang violence and is illegal. When one gang of racists kills another gang of racists, those are crimes. What did he swear on? He didn't swear on anything.

Your point remain unchanged. Killing racists is okay, so long as you feel threatened. Racists are threatening by nature, so you can kill them all.

[Rothstien-Smash]

You made the direct comparison and Skaddix nailed you on it before I could. Can't take that back now. Helpless people versus mutants with extraordinary powers. Huge difference.

Not to quibble, but helpless people don't have power armor, giant robots, genetically engineered diseases, and the host of other things the anti-mutant forces have used.

[Skaddix]

Not to quibble, but helpless people don't have power armor, giant robots, genetically engineered diseases, and the host of other things the anti-mutant forces have used.

True to an extent although biological weapons are still in option. But honestly it comes down to cost to commit genocide against jews for instance, the nazis dont need to waste money on power armor or giant robots because the jews don't have any powers to fight back with. the nazis can win on numbers alone.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Not to quibble, but helpless people don't have power armor, giant robots, genetically engineered diseases, and the host of other things the anti-mutant forces have used.

There's a reason why all those things were made in the first place. And it wasn't just racism.

[jarrod]

No, sending untrained students to face certain death and then mind-wipe one of your students to make sure he didn't remember your mistakes is worse.

X-force needed to exist, Scott wasn't wrong about it all, and if he hadn't created it most likely all the X-men would be dead already, or at least the majority. His mistake was not telling some of the people that should know.
lol, no. X-Force never needed to exist, the whole setup and mission statement for the team was predicated on paranoia and immoral rationalization, and ultimately they didn't even accomplish anything any other dedicated team of X-Men couldn't have anyway.

I also think you can make a strong case that all those involved are worse off today as a result of Scott's formation of the team, not to mention the schism it could've placed within the X-Men/Utopia at large (and likely would have had Kyost not sacrificed Kurt to give the last inane annual X-over some "weight"), or what damage it could do to the mutant race as a whole if the information were to go public. X-Force could potentially be the biggest gift Scott could have ever given to his enemies... it's really just one in a long line of recent tactical blunders on his part.

[fortyseven]

I got say Cyke seems to be having a lot of knowledge gaps. He does not know about X-force and is unaware that Frost is running a secret prison. Now x-force is conceivable because logan and fantomex are always out and about while psylocke and angel could be on date but a secret prison on utopia, come on.

I'm pretty sure Scott knows about the brig. It's Namor that Emma is hiding Shaw from. Emma is hiding her kidnapping of Shaw from Scott because she plans on killing Shaw. Scott is aware of the fact that Shaw is in the brig. Emma called Scott to tell him to prepare the brig when she captured Shaw.

[Brian M.]

Cyclops has been right so far, why change leadership?

[Skaddix]

I'm pretty sure Scott knows about the brig. It's Namor that Emma is hiding Shaw from. Emma is hiding her kidnapping of Shaw from Scott because she plans on killing Shaw. Scott is aware of the fact that Shaw is in the brig. Emma called Scott to tell him to prepare the brig when she captured Shaw.

if scott knows then why is Emma telling him she is going on a shopping trip?

[fortyseven]

if scott knows then why is Emma telling him she is going on a shopping trip?

To quote myself:

Emma is hiding her kidnapping of Shaw from Scott because she plans on killing Shaw.

[turtletrekker]

You made the direct comparison and Skaddix nailed you on it before I could. Can't take that back now. Helpless people versus mutants with extraordinary powers. Huge difference. If you notice, the only futures we read about the bad ones. If the future is good, then you aren't going to go back in time.
There is nothing to take back, because I didn't make a comparison. I made an analogy. I asked a rhetorical question. I never said "Mutants are just like Jews in death camps", I asked if the Jews would have been wrong to actively avoid extermination.

Here is another rhetorical question-- If somebody in Tuscon had had a gun and had killed the guy trying to assassinate Gabby Giffords before he opened fire on the crowd, should he face murder charges? Or would he be hailed as a hero?

If someone is breaking into your home or threatening your loved ones, should you just let them because defending yourself in kind would be wrong? Or do you protect what's yours from those trying to take it from you?

And another thing, the anti-mutant terrrorists were hardly "helpless" by any conceivable means, and by saying that they were you undermine your entire arguement. They were an active, armed and dangerous, clear and present danger to every living mutant on the planet and they had the means to carry out their threat. Have you never heard of "self-defense"?



Why do you think it is a war? A war is between two countries. The X-men are not a country. When one gang attacks another gang that is gang violence and is illegal. When one gang of racists kills another gang of racists, those are crimes. What did he swear on? He didn't swear on anything.

What about the war on terrorism? Or the war on drugs? If you are going to sit there and say that those aren't real wars, then I know more than a few vets that would love to have a talk with you.

Bastion's crew may not have been a nation-state, but neither were they a "gang". They were a terrorist cell, pure and simple. Should Cyclops have gone to SHIELD for help? When, as I already pointed out, Bastion's cell had already infiltrated SHIELD? Are you delusional? Were you rooting for Bastion to win?

And it could be argued that since M-Day that Mutant-kind could consist of their own nation just as certain Indian tribes have their own nation.


Your point remain unchanged. Killing racists is okay, so long as you feel threatened. Racists are threatening by nature, so you can kill them all.

You are so fucking full of shit that it is beyond measure. I never said that it was okay to kill racists and I defy you to provide a quote where I said that. What I said (a point that you are deliberately ignoring) was that mutant-kind was in a kill or be killed situation. Moral purity is a fine thing when you are not the one who has to make the hard decisions. Making hard decisions is what good leaders do.

[Monty_Cristo]

it wouldn't surprise me if Magneto and White Queen were in cahoots. they were "king" and "queen" of the Inner Circle at one point. they had planned to get rid of Selene and Shaw. and i'm not talking romance. Emma's a pragmatist. and she admitted to hating that Magneto was a better leader than Scott; even though Scott is becoming more and more like Magneto. this might have been the plan all along. Emma was there on Genosha when it was destroyed, afterall. now she's trying to kill Sebastian. and Magneto, in an earlier scene, was finessing Namor into sticking around; aiding them. this has all the makings of a coup.

[the Hornet]

They really need to go back to Storm as team leader. I don't remember there ever being the problem of hiding dead students or death squads during her time as leader.



Not saying she is not good. but the stories were different then and things were not as challenging.

Having said that I would love for her to regroup with her OUTBACK bunch and do their own thing again.

Miss that group too.

But seriously, its time for new leadership, not Storm, not Prof X and not Cyclops. Storm needs to move over to the large MU. Cyclops should take a Prof X or Bruce Wayne in Batman Inc stance and we need someonelike Rogue, Cannonball or Iceman to take the lead. cyclops has accomplished something great by keeping Hope alive but he did things that were not as heroic as he was tot to be. He needs to step down and be advisor.

[fortyseven]

text

You can't go after someone because you 'think' that they are going to kill you and call it self defense.

[Rothstien-Smash]

You can't go after someone because you 'think' that they are going to kill you and call it self defense.

What about after they have made several attempts? Most of the anti-mutant groups in the Marvel U have killed over and over again. Not just people in costumes, but Fred the mutant whose only power is to be able to use his cell-phone without charging the batteries, and who was merely hoping to get through life like everyone else.

Normally one would get law enforcement involved when there is a group which states it wants to commit genocide, has attempted it in the past, and is building up weaponry to try again. Those guys should have been on a terrorist watch list, and should have been deep in hiding hoping SHIELD or the Avengers wouldn't find them. Instead it seemed the only people concerned about them were the potential targets.

[Omega Alpha]

You can't go after someone because you 'think' that they are going to kill you and call it self defense.

You either have not read the stories or is just trolling, probably both.

[fortyseven]

You either have not read the stories or is just trolling, probably both.

I've read them and I'm not trolling.
I'm just saying that in real life, you can't go after someone because you think they are going to kill you. That's not self defense.
Scott was being proactive in protecting the mutant race. But it's not classified as being self defense.

[Rothstien-Smash]

I'm just saying that in real life, you can't go after someone because you think they are going to kill you. That's not self defense.

True, but the people X-Force was sent after aren't in this group.

They were in the group of "people we know are trying to kill us because they have tried several times already."

Of course, in real life an organization that had a stated goal of genocide, a track record of making attempts, and was sporting military hardware wouldn't exist in U.S. borders either. It would have been shut down and most members killed in a full military-backed assault.

[fortyseven]

Scott should have gone to the police.

[Regino]

A lot of text.

Self defense is legal. Murder and assassination are not. You use clear examples of self defense to support your argument that murdering racists should be legal.

The War on Terror and the War on Drugs are political rhetoric to obtain large public expenditures. Inserting "War" in front of anything is justification to waste money. A war is between two countries.

Bastion won. He turned the X-men into murderers. Once normal humans find out that mutants murdered hundreds of people on American soil, the backlash against mutants will be enormous. Bet.

There is a difference between a country and a nation. I'm not going to explain it b/c I'm tired right now. Also, the Purifiers aren't terrorists. Terrorists attempt to disrupt governments. The Purifiers are more like a gang. Take two famous gangs. If the Bloods plan to kill all the Crips b/c the Crips are planning to kill the bloods, that's murder.

If you don't have morals and principles, then you don't have society. You devolve back into times when the strong ruled the weak, might made right, natural selection, Darwin, I Ching, survival of the fittest. That sounds like the world Apocalypse, not the X-men, would like.

[Regino]

You either have not read the stories or is just trolling, probably both.

Someone has a different view than you and it's trolling?

[Skaddix]

True, but the people X-Force was sent after aren't in this group.

They were in the group of "people we know are trying to kill us because they have tried several times already."

Of course, in real life an organization that had a stated goal of genocide, a track record of making attempts, and was sporting military hardware wouldn't exist in U.S. borders either. It would have been shut down and most members killed in a full military-backed assault.

Several neo-nazi, skin head, and kkk style organizations exist and they are allowed to as many guns as they want, body armor and other equipment. And the US has not shut them down yet. the only difference they are lacking on notable recent attempts.

So should I round up a team of assassins and hunt them down because the government is not stopping them.

[Omega Alpha]

Several neo-nazi, skin head, and kkk style organizations exist and they are allowed to as many guns as they want, body armor and other equipment. And the US has not shut them down yet. the only difference they are lacking on notable recent attempts.

So should I round up a team of assassins and hunt them down because the government is not stopping them.

The analogy to KKK or neo-nazis is incorrect, a better one would either be with Al-Qaeda or the Nazis.

These people have commited mass murder already, will not accept negotiation, have sucessfully infiltrated the government agencies, and the government is unwilling and/or unable to hunt them, and their main goal is genocide of the entire mutantkind.

[Skaddix]

The analogy to KKK or neo-nazis is incorrect, a better one would either be with Al-Qaeda or the Nazis.

These people have commited mass murder already, will not accept negotiation, have sucessfully infiltrated the government agencies, and the government is unwilling and/or unable to hunt them, and their main goal is genocide of the entire mutantkind.

My analogy is fine the Nazis had a whole country as their base and worked like a standard military while Al-Qaeda is in external global terrorist organization that has not infiltrated us government agencies. kkk and neo nazis are homegrown, will not negotiate, have committed mass murder in the past and would love to kill minorities if they got a chance. And like I said the government does not hunt them down just because they have large caches of weapons.

[LordAllMighty]

Self defense is legal. Murder and assassination are not. You use clear examples of self defense to support your argument that murdering racists should be legal.

The War on Terror and the War on Drugs are political rhetoric to obtain large public expenditures. Inserting "War" in front of anything is justification to waste money. A war is between two countries.

Bastion won. He turned the X-men into murderers. Once normal humans find out that mutants murdered hundreds of people on American soil, the backlash against mutants will be enormous. Bet.

There is a difference between a country and a nation. I'm not going to explain it b/c I'm tired right now. Also, the Purifiers aren't terrorists. Terrorists attempt to disrupt governments. The Purifiers are more like a gang. Take two famous gangs. If the Bloods plan to kill all the Crips b/c the Crips are planning to kill the bloods, that's murder.

If you don't have morals and principles, then you don't have society. You devolve back into times when the strong ruled the weak, might made right, natural selection, Darwin, I Ching, survival of the fittest. That sounds like the world Apocalypse, not the X-men, would like.

Good post. I would find it very interesting if the action of X-Force was known to the American public.:eek:

[Omega Alpha]

My analogy is fine the Nazis had a whole country as their base and worked like a standard military while Al-Qaeda is in external global terrorist organization that has not infiltrated us government agencies. kkk and neo nazis are homegrown, will not negotiate, have committed mass murder in the past and would love to kill minorities if they got a chance. And like I said the government does not hunt them down just because they have large caches of weapons.

The analogy doesn't work because KKK and the neonazis are generally speaking relatively few (although KKK was much bigger in the past), usually have less money, and (admittedly, in part due to lack of opportunity) have never killed so much people at the same time like The Purifiers did using Beautiful Dreamer (if I remember, the count was in tens of thousands), and really have been more occupied in promoting hate or even smaller crimes than with a full-blown war against a minority and a people, or actively acting on it (and yes, I know KKK did it in the past, but I talking about currently).

The Purifiers are much, much bigger, and much more dangerous. And most importantly, KKK, the neonazis, even Al Qaeda itself don't really have a chance of wiping out all of their enemies, and in a relatively short period of all time.

[Omega Alpha]

Self defense is legal. Murder and assassination are not. You use clear examples of self defense to support your argument that murdering racists should be legal.

The War on Terror and the War on Drugs are political rhetoric to obtain large public expenditures. Inserting "War" in front of anything is justification to waste money. A war is between two countries.

Bastion won. He turned the X-men into murderers. Once normal humans find out that mutants murdered hundreds of people on American soil, the backlash against mutants will be enormous. Bet.

There is a difference between a country and a nation. I'm not going to explain it b/c I'm tired right now. Also, the Purifiers aren't terrorists. Terrorists attempt to disrupt governments. The Purifiers are more like a gang. Take two famous gangs. If the Bloods plan to kill all the Crips b/c the Crips are planning to kill the bloods, that's murder.

If you don't have morals and principles, then you don't have society. You devolve back into times when the strong ruled the weak, might made right, natural selection, Darwin, I Ching, survival of the fittest. That sounds like the world Apocalypse, not the X-men, would like.

Bastion didn't win. Bastion's plan was to kill every mutant, not make them look bad. He lost because X-force and the X-men wiped him and the Purifiers off the map. If they didn't do it, they would be dead.

Terrorism isn't necessarily about disrupt governments (in fact, that's a very limited definition of it). It's the use of violence and fear against any group for the purpose of pushing any political, social or financial goal. Or, as defined by U.S. law: "...the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives"

Self-defense, on the other hand, is defined as the right to defend oneself with whatever force is reasonably necessary against actual or threatened violence. Now, of course if the X-men could just hug them, they would do it, but they can't. And they also can't send them to jail or ask the government to help, because:

A) They have already infiltrated the American government and SHIELD, and released all their prisioners;

B) In the prison they built (and people complained anyway), they still found ways to communicate (with Pierce);

C) Half of the time of X-force if not more, they had Norman Osborn as the USA's top cop.

And, again, their sole goal was to commit genocide, and they were already successful to some extent. They murdered even babies. They had no reasonable other choice. Which, of course, can be known by actually reading the books.

[Regino]

A lot of text.

Bastion brought X-force out of the light and into the purview of the other X-men. This should lead to the outing of mutants killing people.

Bastion is from the future. In the future, mutants have harmed humans. Humans built Bastion to defend themselves against mutants. Bastion is preemptively targeting mutants so that they don't kill humans in the future. By your logic, this is ok. Bastion is doing the same thing X-force is doing. Bastion is defending humans against mutants. How is it self-defense when X-force does it, but not when Bastion or the Purifiers do it?

US law does not define terrorism that way. What you have defined is the term of art "domestic terrorism." This term of art first came into effect in 2004 as part of the Patriot Act. Even as part of the Patriot Act, this definition has little force. This definition pertains to the crime of identity fraud. That means that the definition you present (1) is an American definition that the rest of the world doesn't recognize, (2) is used only in the limited case of identity theft, (3) is a term of art for a specific form of terrorism, and (4) disregards how the word was used before 2004. Even the other definition you give is far too inclusive. A group of Republicans who yell at a Democrat would be terrorists on definitional par w/ Quaeda vs. the US.

Your definition of self-defense is ok, but the thing that you forget about the threat of force is that the threat must be immediate. If you call me and say that you are going to shoot me, I cannot go over to your house and shoot you while you sleep. That is murder; not self-defense. It is the immediacy that is key.

The X-men are supposed to be better than that. They are supposed to stand for good. But they're murderers. They infringe on civil rights with their prison. So when X-force tried to kill all the Purifiers, that wasn't genocide? Cyke formed X-force before they knew the Purifiers infiltrated Shield and before Osborn solidified his power., so that part of your argument doesn't make sense.

I'm sick of people trying to justify murder. The X-men were better than that. They stood for something noble and good. Now, they are no better than Bastion.

[Skaddix]

Bastion didn't win. Bastion's plan was to kill every mutant, not make them look bad. He lost because X-force and the X-men wiped him and the Purifiers off the map. If they didn't do it, they would be dead.

Bastion lost because 31st century nimrods were a weak and pathetic joke, seriously Karima with 21st century tech took down more mutants including powerhouses in a few minutes then they did during the entire invasion seriously they scored one kill. Bastion also scored only one kill before being pwned by the PF Hope. In fact if Scott had fessed up about what X-force when they discovered that base that was producing archangel knockoffs they would have probably been able to stop Bastion and Selene way sooner.

[Pete Wiggins]

Bastion brought X-force out of the light and into the purview of the other X-men. This should lead to the outing of mutants killing people.

Bastion is from the future. In the future, mutants have harmed humans. Humans built Bastion to defend themselves against mutants. Bastion is preemptively targeting mutants so that they don't kill humans in the future. By your logic, this is ok. Bastion is doing the same thing X-force is doing. Bastion is defending humans against mutants. How is it self-defense when X-force does it, but not when Bastion or the Purifiers do it?

US law does not define terrorism that way. What you have defined is the term of art "domestic terrorism." This term of art first came into effect in 2004 as part of the Patriot Act. Even as part of the Patriot Act, this definition has little force. This definition pertains to the crime of identity fraud. That means that the definition you present (1) is an American definition that the rest of the world doesn't recognize, (2) is used only in the limited case of identity theft, (3) is a term of art for a specific form of terrorism, and (4) disregards how the word was used before 2004. Even the other definition you give is far too inclusive. A group of Republicans who yell at a Democrat would be terrorists on definitional par w/ Quaeda vs. the US.

Your definition of self-defense is ok, but the thing that you forget about the threat of force is that the threat must be immediate. If you call me and say that you are going to shoot me, I cannot go over to your house and shoot you while you sleep. That is murder; not self-defense. It is the immediacy that is key.

The X-men are supposed to be better than that. They are supposed to stand for good. But they're murderers. They infringe on civil rights with their prison. So when X-force tried to kill all the Purifiers, that wasn't genocide? Cyke formed X-force before they knew the Purifiers infiltrated Shield and before Osborn solidified his power., so that part of your argument doesn't make sense.

I'm sick of people trying to justify murder. The X-men were better than that. They stood for something noble and good. Now, they are no better than Bastion.



Not sure how your comparison really fits; what X-Force were dealing with WAS an immediate threat; the Purifiers had already blown up a schoolbus full of teenagers who were depowered and therefore little more threat to anyone than your average Joe Friday, and then gone on to kill all the babies in a maternity ward just to make sure they killed one potential mutant. I sure don't see Cyke, whatever else you may say about him, sanctioning barbequing children because he thinks they pose a potential threat. Not that I want the X-Men to become like the Punisher (a man who has killed thousands upon thousands of people with no regret, who only feels at peace when he's killing folks, but who has very clearly defined standards, such as not harming or killing innocents, especially children), but considering the circumstances...

[Brian M.]

Bastion brought X-force out of the light and into the purview of the other X-men. This should lead to the outing of mutants killing people.

Bastion is from the future. In the future, mutants have harmed humans. Humans built Bastion to defend themselves against mutants. Bastion is preemptively targeting mutants so that they don't kill humans in the future. By your logic, this is ok. Bastion is doing the same thing X-force is doing. Bastion is defending humans against mutants. How is it self-defense when X-force does it, but not when Bastion or the Purifiers do it?

US law does not define terrorism that way. What you have defined is the term of art "domestic terrorism." This term of art first came into effect in 2004 as part of the Patriot Act. Even as part of the Patriot Act, this definition has little force. This definition pertains to the crime of identity fraud. That means that the definition you present (1) is an American definition that the rest of the world doesn't recognize, (2) is used only in the limited case of identity theft, (3) is a term of art for a specific form of terrorism, and (4) disregards how the word was used before 2004. Even the other definition you give is far too inclusive. A group of Republicans who yell at a Democrat would be terrorists on definitional par w/ Quaeda vs. the US.

Your definition of self-defense is ok, but the thing that you forget about the threat of force is that the threat must be immediate. If you call me and say that you are going to shoot me, I cannot go over to your house and shoot you while you sleep. That is murder; not self-defense. It is the immediacy that is key.

The X-men are supposed to be better than that. They are supposed to stand for good. But they're murderers. They infringe on civil rights with their prison. So when X-force tried to kill all the Purifiers, that wasn't genocide? Cyke formed X-force before they knew the Purifiers infiltrated Shield and before Osborn solidified his power., so that part of your argument doesn't make sense.

I'm sick of people trying to justify murder. The X-men were better than that. They stood for something noble and good. Now, they are no better than Bastion.

That's absolutely insane to say the X-Men aren't any better than Bastion. They killed the Purifiers because they had too. Any other line of thinking in that situation is weak

[Regino]

That's absolutely insane to say the X-Men aren't any better than Bastion. They killed the Purifiers because they had too. Any other line of thinking in that situation is weak

Bastion is killing X-men to save humans. You're a human. Bastion just saved your life.

[Brian M.]

Bastion is killing X-men to save humans. You're a human. Bastion just saved your life.

I didn't ask him to do anything for me.

[Regino]

I didn't ask him to do anything for me.

You don't ask soldiers to defend you.

[Brian M.]

You don't ask soldiers to defend you.

So you are comparing the genocidal Purifiers to Soldiers in the military? That is crazy...just crazy and insulting and sad.

[Regino]

So you are comparing the genocidal Purifiers to Soldiers in the military? That is crazy...just crazy and insulting and sad.

I was talking about Bastion. He's a hero.

[Ronin1108]

IF it were to happen I can see it going like this:

Cyclops
Emma (cyclops ride or die bitch, or the maria hill to scott's tony stark)
New Xmen (the initiative/red shirts)
Domino
X23
The brotherhood/Acolytes (the thunderbolts)
Iceman
Danger
X Club

Magneto
Xavier
New Mutants (they're gonna follow their former headmaster alot faster than the wayward student of theirs)
Collossus (MaGS got Kitty back, and its easier to be with the guy who controls metal)
Kitty (will already see Emma's a deceptive bitch but would rather follow dumb ass piotr than to convince dumb ass scott that his jean grey stunt double is a double crossing hoochie)

Storm
Gambit (storm's road dawg for life!!)
Namor (royal connection, and newly queen sue fufills his blond requirement)
Rogue
Hope (with the Five Lights)
Dazzler
Beast (believes ororo's team actually truly wants the dream of co-existance)
Warpath (is done doing the killing thing, but doesn't follow his old team due to them being with magneto)


Wolverine would take X force and actually get shit done, kinda like he was doing in the actual Civil War.

[Regino]

Not sure how your comparison really fits; what X-Force were dealing with WAS an immediate threat; the Purifiers had already blown up a schoolbus full of teenagers who were depowered and therefore little more threat to anyone than your average Joe Friday, and then gone on to kill all the babies in a maternity ward just to make sure they killed one potential mutant. I sure don't see Cyke, whatever else you may say about him, sanctioning barbequing children because he thinks they pose a potential threat. Not that I want the X-Men to become like the Punisher (a man who has killed thousands upon thousands of people with no regret, who only feels at peace when he's killing folks, but who has very clearly defined standards, such as not harming or killing innocents, especially children), but considering the circumstances...

You're going to have to see my earlier posts. I feel like I addressed all your points.

[CMBMOOL]

Given that "Schism" is the upcoming X-men version of Civil War, how do you all think this event will be played out ? :redface:

[Skaddix]

Given that "Schism" is the upcoming X-men version of Civil War, how do you all think this event will be played out ? :redface:

No idea. Need to know what they are fighting over first and get a better idea on the sides.

[CMBMOOL]

Given that Schism is now upon us and that we have finally seen the arguement between Wolverine and Cyclops, can anyone say that this event and its argument is a bit better than that of the Civil War event and its argment ?

As both events were caused by the superpowers of young heroes and the casualties between the two of them.

[blahblahcomics]

Holy shit, you ask a lot of questions.

[CMBMOOL]

DOes anyone think that the news of the upcomng Avengers vs X-men will be a new version of Civil War, but with the X-men involved this time around ? :eek:

[Michael_Caesar]

It's the avengers vs Cyclops and the brotherhood of evil mutants. Magneto, the white queen, Juggernaut, Namor, sinister, mojo, etc

[SuperCooper]

DOes anyone think that the news of the upcomng Avengers vs X-men will be a new version of Civil War, but with the X-men involved this time around ? :eek:

Utopia is its own nation, so technically there's nothing civil about it. It's just war.