Damian Wayne is one of the greatest characters ever.

[Karl O'Neill]

Spoilers beware.


Morrison has created a gem of a character with damian.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/TDkdTA5u-QI/AAAAAAAAN1Q/5gmXb6JNpGw/s1600/batmanandrobin13+-+damianjoker1.jpg


ANd then.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/TDkeszqBg0I/AAAAAAAAN1g/oN3-w9Wo3uE/s1600/batmanandrobin13+-+whatdidcrowbarsaytotheface.jpg

[CassandraL]

I'm such a Damien fan, he's like a cute little bratty, even more angsty version of Bruce. I just want to put him in my pocket and take him home. :biggrin:

[Sarah Beach]

If you like him, I suppose that's satisfying for the writer to know.

But one of the greatest characters ever? .....

No, not so much. I don't really like spending time with him, and I would think that "greatest characters ever" would be rather more compelling than this.

[Violently Apathetic]

Well, I wouldn't call him one of the greatest ever, but I sure do find him entertaining. I just want to mess up his hair and give him milk and cookies, the little scamp.

[lonewolf23k]

I guess I'd like Damien a bit more if he just had his ass seriously kicked, just once, to humble him a bit.

[Karl O'Neill]

If you like him, I suppose that's satisfying for the writer to know.

But one of the greatest characters ever? .....

No, not so much. I don't really like spending time with him, and I would think that "greatest characters ever" would be rather more compelling than this.

He is VERY compelling. Certainly the most interesting Robin ever.

[worstblogever]

Well, Damien may not be the light to Batman's darkness... but the little bastard sure has a great mean streak to him.

[RachelEvil]

I guess I'd like Damien a bit more if he just had his ass seriously kicked, just once, to humble him a bit.

Didn't that already happen a couple times? He's had to get rescued by Dick multiple times now.

[Apathy Lad]

I hate Damien more and more every time I see him, but the irony in those pages was lovely.

[Grazzt]

Didn't that already happen a couple times? He's had to get rescued by Dick multiple times now.

I think by "humbled" lonewolf means that Damien actually has to recognize the fact that he needed help and dial back the arrogance a bit. Has that happened yet?

Personally, I think Damien only works when he's the guy who gets slapped down by the other members of the Bat-Family for thinking he's better than they are.

[Adam C]

Well, Damien may not be the light to Batman's darkness... but the little bastard sure has a great mean streak to him.

Interestingly enough when Morrison made Damian Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman he was specifically thinking about reversing the typical Batman and Robin dynamic.

[Matt Algren]

I read that wrong the first time.

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr290/captaintitusoates/dwayne.jpg

Still works, though.

[Teal_Lantern]

I love that little douchebag.

[Home made ectoplasm]

I guess I'd like Damien a bit more if he just had his ass seriously kicked, just once, to humble him a bit.

He was beaten up so badly his spine was broken and had to be replaced with an artificial spine.

[scandalsavage]

I enjoy him but "one of the greatest characters ever"?

No way.

He's an interesting character and, when written right, he can be fun but he works best in reaction to other strong characters. I don't think his character alone was able to sustain the itself in the "Streets of Gotham" story with Szasz.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I guess I'd like Damien a bit more if he just had his ass seriously kicked, just once, to humble him a bit.


Didn't that already happen a couple times? He's had to get rescued by Dick multiple times now.

Yep. And Dick's always told Damian he has ways to go. But like his father , Damian is driven to be Batman. He knows at some point he will get the mantle.

He rushed in and got his spine replaced . But in his young drive he told he would bounce back and be EVEN BETTER now...:tongue:

[stealthwise]

Like many people, I couldn't stand his initial appearances in Morrison's BATMAN, but the little jerk has grown on me. He's a more capable and violent Jason Todd, Tim Drake with no social code or restraints, Dick Grayson without the loving parents, knowing only loss and angry and bitterness without actual direction. He's orphaned right now in that his mother has abandoned him and the only father he's barely known is lost to the ravages of time. He has a surrogate family that he's bound to by the barest tethers of trust and association, it's more familiarity and the threat of danger that keeps him with the current Bat-clan. His closest person is, like all of the other Robins and Batman himself, Alfred.

I think he's pretty darn nifty right now.

[Sarah Beach]

"Bastard" (meant literally and figuratively of his character), "brat", "mean streak"?? These are characteristics you admire?

What?

I'm sorry, but no, he's not the best Robin ever. (That would be Tim Drake.)

Does he make for interesting stories? Apparently. But do I find him in any way admirable and "a hero"? No. And that alone ought to be enough to undercut any claim to being "Robin". In one sense at present, he is "Robin" by mere force of arms and authorial dictate. He hasn't really earned the position, he's just usurped it.

(No, okay, I'm not a fan of the character, and wish he would go away. Soon.)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

"Bastard" (meant literally and figuratively of his character), "brat", "mean streak"?? These are characteristics you admire?

What?

I'm sorry, but no, he's not the best Robin ever. (That would be Tim Drake.)

Does he make for interesting stories? Apparently. But do I find him in any way admirable and "a hero"? No. And that alone ought to be enough to undercut any claim to being "Robin". In one sense at present, he is "Robin" by mere force of arms and authorial dictate. He hasn't really earned the position, he's just usurped it.

(No, okay, I'm not a fan of the character, and wish he would go away. Soon.)

Damian in the Morrison run has showed a willingness to sacrifice himself to save others. In one issue where he was shot , he dove in front of Scarlett to save her from being shot. Taking a few gun blasts himself.

He's a character who is the Bruce Wayne of the team. Dick is a light hearted , smiling Batman. And Damian is the serious , lets do our jobs...why are you smiling Grayson ? He's someone Dick is teaching to be more human.

Damian has all the skills...even better skills than Drake. Sure he's no computer wiz. But Damian was trained from birth by the League of Assassins. He has the skills. And he will sacrifice himself for the greater good. But he just needs to learn to be more human.

And he's doing it. In 700 a cute scene has Dick and Damian in a pizza parlor , him sippin coffee as Damian eats pizza. Its a warm scene as Dick is smilin as Damian has a rare smile too. That he is learning.

[40footwolf]

To say nothing of Frazier Irving's art. I hope he and Morrison team up more often.

[40footwolf]

In one sense at present, he is "Robin" by mere force of arms and authorial dictate. He hasn't really earned the position, he's just usurped it.

And that's why he's awesome.

[Jake V]

I guess I'd like Damien a bit more if he just had his ass seriously kicked, just once, to humble him a bit.
Damian is awesome because he isn't humble. But like others have said, he's had his ass kicked plenty of times.

[Matt Algren]

"Bastard" (meant literally and figuratively of his character), "brat", "mean streak"?? These are characteristics you admire?

What?
If the character is the child of Batman and Talia al Ghul? Absolutely.

I'm sorry, but no, he's not the best Robin ever. (That would be Tim Drake.)

Does he make for interesting stories? Apparently. But do I find him in any way admirable and "a hero"? No. And that alone ought to be enough to undercut any claim to being "Robin". In one sense at present, he is "Robin" by mere force of arms and authorial dictate. He hasn't really earned the position, he's just usurped it.

(No, okay, I'm not a fan of the character, and wish he would go away. Soon.)
He's Batman in an 8-year-old's body with an 8-year-old's understanding of heroism. The only reason he doesn't get to call himself "Batman" is that the adults are taller than he is.

The kid's doing pretty well, all things considered.

[CassandraL]

I've enjoyed Damien's appearances in the new Batgirl comics, it's obvious he has a cute little crush on Stephanie which he acts upon in the way any 8-year-old would by trashing her. I can picture him on the playground pulling the pigtails of a girl he likes. :biggrin:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If the character is the child of Batman and Talia al Ghul? Absolutely.

He's Batman in an 8-year-old's body with an 8-year-old's understanding of heroism. The only reason he doesn't get to call himself "Batman" is that the adults are taller than he is.

The kid's doing pretty well, all things considered.


I've enjoyed Damien's appearances in the new Batgirl comics, it's obvious he has a cute little crush on Stephanie which he acts upon in the way any 8-year-old would by trashing her. I can picture him on the playground pulling the pigtails of a girl he likes. :biggrin:

Isn't Damian a 10-12 yearold boy now ?

[Teal_Lantern]

"Bastard" (meant literally and figuratively of his character), "brat", "mean streak"?? These are characteristics you admire?


I don't think anyone actually admires Damian, but rather simply enjoy seeing him act like a complete dick in front of everybody.

[CassandraL]

Isn't Damian a 10-12 yearold boy now ?
Yes but sometimes he behaves like a younger kid when it comes to his lack of social skills.

[4thHorseman]

"Bastard" (meant literally and figuratively of his character), "brat", "mean streak"?? These are characteristics you admire?

What?

I'm sorry, but no, he's not the best Robin ever. (That would be Tim Drake.)

Does he make for interesting stories? Apparently. But do I find him in any way admirable and "a hero"? No. And that alone ought to be enough to undercut any claim to being "Robin". In one sense at present, he is "Robin" by mere force of arms and authorial dictate. He hasn't really earned the position, he's just usurped it.

(No, okay, I'm not a fan of the character, and wish he would go away. Soon.)

The reason I like Damian is because he has the potential to be the best Robin. And the thing that holds him back is his temper and mean-streak. His time with Bruce, Tim, and Dick are efforts to change that attitude that he learned his entire life while under Talia's parenting. Yes, he's still a bit sadistic and cruel and has "jason todd-esque" qualities about him, but if you have paid any attention to him since Grant introduced him, it's obvious the kid has grown a bit. There's light under that darkness and it's starting to come out little by little.

[Tobias March]

'tt'

:biggrin:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww246/Georgethecat/jason%20todd/streetsofgotham4damian-1.jpg

[CutterMike]

He still strikes me as a very one-note character. He's The Goddam Batman, Jr. and while Morrison may be writing a "The Man Who Learned Better" type of story, I'm just not sure that I'm willing to hang around long enough for it to happen.

Damian may have the potential to be a great character, but, no -- at this point, he just isn't one.

[40footwolf]

He still strikes me as a very one-note character. He's The Goddam Batman, Jr. and while Morrison may be writing a "The Man Who Learned Better" type of story, I'm just not sure that I'm willing to hang around long enough for it to happen.

Damian may have the potential to be a great character, but, no -- at this point, he just isn't one.

Man, who made you the King Wizard of Good Comic Book Characters? I'd rather read a comic with Damian in it than with Spider-Man, I'll say that much.

[scandalsavage]

Man, who made you the King Wizard of Good Comic Book Characters? I'd rather read a comic with Damian in it than with Spider-Man, I'll say that much.

Nah, he's right. Damian is a good character but I just don't get the ZOMG he's better than Spiderman and the greatest character in the world. He's been in how many issues? And faced how many challenges? Oh, and killed how many people? Damian doesn't even have a consistent personality. Morrison writes him one way, Dini another and Nicieza another. The only common denominator is he is a petulant, imperious, precocious brat. That's not a character, that's an archetype.

[Violently Apathetic]

I don't know many comic characters who have consistent personalities that go beyond archetypes and cliches, so Damian's in pretty good company.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yes but sometimes he behaves like a younger kid when it comes to his lack of social skills.

Theres a light slowly kicking on though. After years of living learning to be a modern day Alexander as Talia wanted (your bloodline will make ya rule ...as she claims) he's clicking on. He's realizing there is more to life.

One of the cute Tony Daniel scenes has Dick take Damian to a Wayne Foundation ball. Its there Damian is loving the attention of the girls who say he's just as cute as his father. You can tell he is suprised by it...but doesn't hate it.

There is moments he does act a lot younger due to his social skills and not being raised around caring people.

[scandalsavage]

I don't know many comic characters who have consistent personalities that go beyond archetypes and cliches, so Damian's in pretty good company.

Probably not "one of the greatest comic characters ever" and better than Spiderman as has been stated.

[TCJohnson]

Man, hyperbole is the best literary device, like, ever!

[Teal_Lantern]

Probably not "one of the greatest comic characters ever" and better than Spiderman as has been stated.

I'm a Damian fan and I gotta agree that he is not better than Spider-man, sorry had to be said :tongue:

[KnightErrantJR]

I'll admit I'm a bit biased against the character because I'm not a huge fan of Talia becoming a full blown villain. If Talia were still the "torn between two worlds" character she was, at some point Damien could always go back to his mother and potentially bridge those worlds by applying what he learned from his father and his friends to Ra's empire. As it stands now, the character almost has to stay as part of the Bat family, and I'm not sure I like that kind of straight jacket applied to the character.

As for Damien being willing to sacrifice himself for others, and growing as a character . . . well, part of that is trying to prove he would do what Bruce would do. He doesn't have any empathy for anyone, nor does he want them to live because they have been unfairly targeted or because he respect life. He just figures that if he doesn't "lower" himself to save those beneath him, he's not proving how good he is at fulfilling his father's role. There is a way to go from that to actually doing what is right for the right reasons.

I have softened on the character, compared to when I first ran into him, but at the same time, I don't see a good "exit strategy" for the character. I actually see him working better as a Robin to Dick than for Bruce, who is too close to Damien, or would likely be so.

So do you have a mismatch of Robin (Damien) with Bruce or do you never have Bruce come back as Batman?

Then of course there is the whole matter of Damien coming full circle and trying to kill Tim, again, all over again, in Red Robin.

[Violently Apathetic]

Probably not "one of the greatest comic characters ever" and better than Spiderman as has been stated.

Oh, no, certainly not the best ever, and not as enduring as Spidey in any way, shape or form. My point was that many of his faults (at least when it comes to how he's been utilized as a character) could be attributed to a fair number of other characters as well, he just hasn't had the time to develop organically (and receive the benefit of nostalgia) that many of his peers have. Batman himself varies depending on the writer, and he is, at his core, a collection of archetypes.

[Matt Algren]

Jesus Christ.

[BnL]

Jesus Christ.

Damian is not a better character than Jesus Christ.

[PatrickG]

I'd say he's the best new character to emerge in a Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman title in probably 15 years and definitely in the last 10.

Those are books that once spawned franchises left and right and we saw some of this again in the late 80s and 90s...

But Damien is probably the only time it's really worked, excluding updates or reinventions of old characters, since the dawn of the 21st century. And he did it without catering at all to any of the junior Bruce Wayne tropes from the Super-sons or Batman Beyond.

In fact, he seems consciously modeled as a character to hate, setup with a personality and it situations where he should be loathed and, in the process, proves that characters like Jason Todd or Azrael or Cassandra Cain or any of his predecessors as the troubled Batman family member were valid. Just not executed to their full potential.

And I think he accomplishes this by taking grim jerk to the point of camp... But without making the Frank Miller mistake of butchering an existing character to get there.

Damien can be the Goddamn Batman and it doesn't make a mockery of established characters by trying to shoehorn them into that mold, nor does it ruin the overall recipe of the books because it's more overtly played for dark laughs and pathos with Damien.

Miller's Batman acts this way and seems engineered to make you think it's supposed to be cool.

Damien has much the same approach but, as a child in a bright costume, reveals the Miller take to be hilarious and sad and does this in a way that embraces it rather than abandoning it.

Oh. And I think Bruce may be a changed man when he gets back. Either dark enough that Damien will be his bright spot or reaching a kind of enlightenment that makes his Batman a futurist, a more cosmic thinker and maybe a man who can laugh, more like Dick's Batman by a hare.

I strongly suspect that his return will have some kind of epilogue where we see Bruce toss off a line like, "Oh. And by the way, I have a plan to eliminate violence and evil forever. It should only take a few weeks. Just a cosmic epiphany I had on my way back... But let's see where it takes us, hh?"

[40footwolf]

Probably not "one of the greatest comic characters ever" and better than Spiderman as has been stated.

I didn't actually say that, I said that I'd rather read comics with Damian than comics with Spider-Man.

The difference between what I said and what you said I said is pretty significant.

[Teal_Lantern]

Damian is not a better character than Jesus Christ.

Best post here :biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

Man, hyperbole is the best literary device, like, ever!

Nah, it's totally the worst thing ever times infinity squared!

[scandalsavage]

I didn't actually say that, I said that I'd rather read comics with Damian than comics with Spider-Man.

The difference between what I said and what you said I said is pretty significant.

You said that you would rather read comics with Damian than Spider-Man in response to the remark that "Damian isn't yet a great character" Is it not a reasonable assumption based on that statement that you think Damian is a better character than Spider-man?

[PatrickG]

Understatement is mildly overrated.

[40footwolf]

You said that you would rather read comics with Damian than Spider-Man in response to the remark that "Damian isn't yet a great character" Is it not a reasonable assumption based on that statement that you think Damian is a better character than Spider-man?

I do not think that Damian is OBJECTIVELY a better character than Spider-Man because that would make me a douche who thinks that comic book character quality is something that can easily be qualified and quantified. I LIKE Damian more than Spider-Man, if that's what you're getting at.

[Arkaengel]

Damian is not a better character than Jesus Christ.
But Jesus never hit the Joker with a crowbar.

[Typo Lad]

He's Batman in an 8-year-old's body with an 8-year-old's understanding of heroism. The only reason he doesn't get to call himself "Batman" is that the adults are taller than he is.


Whereas Batman is an adult with an 8-year-old's understanding of justice.


But Jesus never hit the Joker with a crowbar.

That's fanart waiting to happen.

[Tobias March]

Whereas Batman is an adult with an 8-year-old's understanding of justice.




You just made Frank Miller cry.

[Alan Lynch]

Much as I've loved Morrison's Batman since he's been Dick Grayson, Damien bugs the tits off me.