Ditko's Shade The Changing Man

[Gryphon]

Will DC ever reprint the original series by Ditko?

And furthermore, would anyone else want to see a new series pick up on ditko's version ( and ostrander's development of him)? He can be reconciled in with the vertigo version by saying that there are two shades and two metas created as a result of one of the crisis events

[Professor Moriarty]

i would like to see both happen.

shade is long overdue for a comeback.

they're finally reprinting the vertigo series in trade paper back so maybe that will generate interest in the character?

[Babylon23]

I get the feeling we'll see Ditko's Shade series reprinted sometime soon. Probably in the same format they've used for the recent Creeper trade and Kirby's Fourth World, Demon and OMAC stories. DC seems to be going back and reprinting a lot of series from the 50's and 60's in this format. They've recently published Atomic Knights and Kubert's Viking Prince is on the way as well.

Personally, I'm hoping we'll see both Shade and Ditko's Hawk and Dove.

[Jody Garland]

Given the prominence of Hawk and the newer Dove, I'd say the latter is highly likely.

[Gryphon]

I get the feeling we'll see Ditko's Shade series reprinted sometime soon. Probably in the same format they've used for the recent Creeper trade and Kirby's Fourth World, Demon and OMAC stories. DC seems to be going back and reprinting a lot of series from the 50's and 60's in this format. They've recently published Atomic Knights and Kubert's Viking Prince is on the way as well.

Personally, I'm hoping we'll see both Shade and Ditko's Hawk and Dove.

hopefully they weill do this for shade

[sendingsignal]

I get the feeling we'll see Ditko's Shade series reprinted sometime soon. Probably in the same format they've used for the recent Creeper trade and Kirby's Fourth World, Demon and OMAC stories. DC seems to be going back and reprinting a lot of series from the 50's and 60's in this format. They've recently published Atomic Knights and Kubert's Viking Prince is on the way as well.

Personally, I'm hoping we'll see both Shade and Ditko's Hawk and Dove.

yeah, I feel like it's gotta happen. DC does seem to have an interest in reprinting important runs, just takes a while as they only do a few each year. The past ten years or so have seen a HUGE increase in what is available to be read easily, though. it's really amazing. I'm so happy to be living in the golden age of reprints :D

[Gryphon]

was the last use of ditko's version in suicide squad, or did he appear elsewhere as well?

[Anxy]

I just picked up a copy of Ditko's Shade #1 at a convention and it amazed me that this series has never been offered as a trade. The art is amazing, and the story is a lot of fun.

I love both incarnations of the Shade series, and would be excited to see a third volume that picks and chooses from the previous two. I think the Vertigo series was respectful enough of the first series that a "hybrid" reality drawing from both series could be cobbled together, and would make for an interesting read.

[titanfan]

was the last use of ditko's version in suicide squad, or did he appear elsewhere as well?

Sort of. He was written out of Suicide Squad when the new series was starting and I was lead to believe it was the same character--but they pretty much did a reboot of the character in the first issue anyway.

[Gryphon]

Sort of. He was written out of Suicide Squad when the new series was starting and I was lead to believe it was the same character--but they pretty much did a reboot of the character in the first issue anyway.

so it led into the vertigo series?

[Darrell D.]

Will DC ever reprint the original series by Ditko?

And furthermore, would anyone else want to see a new series pick up on ditko's version ( and ostrander's development of him)? He can be reconciled in with the vertigo version by saying that there are two shades and two metas created as a result of one of the crisis events

Why do they need to reconcile the Vertigo version? Leave it out of the DC continuity mire, just leave it alone. It doesn't need to be addressed, I can't imagine anyone who enjoyed the Vertigo book has some burning desire to connect the two. I know I don't, the Vertigo stuff is the place I go to escape the needless technobabble of continuity. It happened on Earth Vertigo. It happened on Planet Milligan. It hardly has any connection with Ditko's creation save the name, anyway.

[Darrell D.]

so it led into the vertigo series?

No. The Vertigo series is the Vertigo Series. Milligan took the basic idea and ran with it, creating a completely different character.

[sendingsignal]

No. The Vertigo series is the Vertigo Series. Milligan took the basic idea and ran with it, creating a completely different character.

Except that shade showed up several times in DC continuity.

Plus the old stuff is explained as being his hallucinations (maybe).

It's already kind of reconciled - I see no reason to throw it out. It isn't much weirder than a lot of stuff of that era (Doom Patrol or Animal Man, anyone?) that is still considered part of the DCU.

[Jody Garland]

At least one thing from the milligan series showed up in regular continuity- The American Scream showed up in Ostrander's Spectre. Of course, that doesn't mean Milligan's Shade is strictly in the DCU though.

[titanfan]

Really it can go both ways--they can be the same character or not--I don't think Shade's has had a major DC appearances since, so it's up to whoever wants to use the character next to decide which part(s) of him to keep.

[sendingsignal]

Really it can go both ways--they can be the same character or not--I don't think Shade's has had a major DC appearances since, so it's up to whoever wants to use the character next to decide which part(s) of him to keep.


Yeah, exactly. I've always felt continuity was rather more flexible than people make it out to be.

[Anxy]

Really it can go both ways--they can be the same character or not--I don't think Shade's has had a major DC appearances since, so it's up to whoever wants to use the character next to decide which part(s) of him to keep.

Agreed. Especially with a trippy character like Shade, where you've got a lot of subconscious stuff going on and the continuity could easily be subject to interpretation.

[sendingsignal]

Agreed. Especially with a trippy character like Shade, where you've got a lot of subconscious stuff going on and the continuity could easily be subject to interpretation.

yeah, it's like with the magic characters - a lot of them are in vertigo, and in the main dcu, and have their own kind of take on how the whole place works and it all works because magic is so subjective.

[Anxy]

yeah, it's like with the magic characters - a lot of them are in vertigo, and in the main dcu, and have their own kind of take on how the whole place works and it all works because magic is so subjective.

I kinda feel like you get the privilege of cheating with continuity if you're swerving a character back and forth through the Vertigo and DC Universe realities...I kinda feel like it's one of the more playful and acceptable ways they've flirted with our perceptions/expectations of continuity over the years.

[sendingsignal]

I kinda feel like you get the privilege of cheating with continuity if you're swerving a character back and forth through the Vertigo and DC Universe realities...I kinda feel like it's one of the more playful and acceptable ways they've flirted with our perceptions/expectations of continuity over the years.

yeah, besides if the use of the character is good, I'm not going to complain.

[Gryphon]

so if dc did a series based on ditko's continuity, who should write it and who should draw it?

[Anxy]

so if dc did a series based on ditko's continuity, who should write it and who should draw it?

As for an artist, I'd vote for J.H. Williams III, only because I want him to illustrate EVERY comic, lol.

[Gryphon]

As for an artist, I'd vote for J.H. Williams III, only because I want him to illustrate EVERY comic, lol.

i myself would rather brendan mccarthy. come to think of it, id like it if he would write and draw a revival of ditko's series

[Ziza9]

Will DC ever reprint the original series by Ditko?

And furthermore, would anyone else want to see a new series pick up on ditko's version ( and ostrander's development of him)? He can be reconciled in with the vertigo version by saying that there are two shades and two metas created as a result of one of the crisis events

Even though I prefer the Vertigo Shade to Ditko's I want the original series reprinted for fans like yourself who are craving it. Personally though, no, I wouldn't want a continuation of that version. I'd rather see more stories with Milligan's version.

[Gryphon]

Even though I prefer the Vertigo Shade to Ditko's I want the original series reprinted for fans like yourself who are craving it. Personally though, no, I wouldn't want a continuation of that version. I'd rather see more stories with Milligan's version.

well, thanks for supporting getting a trade of the series

[Ozymandas]

so if dc did a series based on ditko's continuity, who should write it and who should draw it?

Different takes, but I'll say Bill Seinkewicz or Brian Bolland. Or Dave Gibbons!

Although I lament the absence of color in those books, I think it would work well in Showcase. I'm not sure if there were enough issues; perhaps it could be packaged with other Ditko DC work, like The Creeper or Hawk & Dove. have they done that in Showcase before?

[Gryphon]

Different takes, but I'll say Bill Seinkewicz or Brian Bolland. Or Dave Gibbons!

Although I lament the absence of color in those books, I think it would work well in Showcase. I'm not sure if there were enough issues; perhaps it could be packaged with other Ditko DC work, like The Creeper or Hawk & Dove. have they done that in Showcase before?

i dont think they have done that before.

they did just release a hardcover of his creeper stories ( which i recommend btw) so im hopeful this will get a hardcover release

[Sean Walsh]

Will DC ever reprint the original series by Ditko?

Well, DC did collect his CREEPER series in a hardcover format identical to the NEW GODS Omnibuses. I'd like to think their collections division isn't done with Ditko yet...

(Hoping for his STARMAN to be collected, myself.)

[Gryphon]

Well, DC did collect his CREEPER series in a hardcover format identical to the NEW GODS Omnibuses. I'd like to think their collections division isn't done with Ditko yet...

(Hoping for his STARMAN to be collected, myself.)

hopefully they arent done yet.

and i wouldnt mind a collection of starman by ditko

[sendingsignal]

oohhh that makes me want that creeper collection so bad. well, even more so bad. It's been on my buy list forever but I haven't actually picked it up yet. Didn't know it matched the other omnibus editions.

[hondobrode]

I've still got my original issues; 8 IIRC, and I love them.

Much as I love the Vertigo Shade, I love Ditko's original twice as much.

Somebody needs to do it. Yes, Brendan McCarthy would be perfect but it would have to be a mini with the pace he goes at.

Michael Golden could be great too. Maybe Shane Davis, Barry Kitson or Tom Scioli.

[Gryphon]

oohhh that makes me want that creeper collection so bad. well, even more so bad. It's been on my buy list forever but I haven't actually picked it up yet. Didn't know it matched the other omnibus editions.

it does look really good. I have two other books to get first but then im buying that. lucky number 3

[xorn87]

I think they should use all aspects of both series. Let's say after the Suicide Squad stuff he went totally crazy and ended up in the looney bin. From there he escaped and had his Vertigo adventures. Then he ends up in the new story finally remembering all that had gone on and can be re-incorporated into DC proper.
Oh... and his series should be done by JMS and Paul Pope.

[Gryphon]

I think they should use all aspects of both series. Let's say after the Suicide Squad stuff he went totally crazy and ended up in the looney bin. From there he escaped and had his Vertigo adventures. Then he ends up in the new story finally remembering all that had gone on and can be re-incorporated into DC proper.
Oh... and his series should be done by JMS and Paul Pope.

that would actually be a pretty good idea

[sendingsignal]

sounds good to me too

I'd be interested in how much of the vertigo series was in his head and how much not (or at least how he considers it once he's "sane" again) - seeing as how much of that series was dealing with that already.

[Gryphon]

sounds good to me too

I'd be interested in how much of the vertigo series was in his head and how much not (or at least how he considers it once he's "sane" again) - seeing as how much of that series was dealing with that already.

indeed.. that would be good

[Darrell D.]

Except that shade showed up several times in DC continuity.

Plus the old stuff is explained as being his hallucinations (maybe).

It's already kind of reconciled - I see no reason to throw it out. It isn't much weirder than a lot of stuff of that era (Doom Patrol or Animal Man, anyone?) that is still considered part of the DCU.

Interesting. Where did Milligan's Shade show up in DC continuity, besides the crossover with Constantine?

[Anxy]

Paul Pope.

Okay, absolutely. As much as I love McCarthy, Paul Pope would be great.

[sendingsignal]

Interesting. Where did Milligan's Shade show up in DC continuity, besides the crossover with Constantine?

he's in a couple group shots (can't remember exactly where right now) and he shows up in the one shot Totems, which is kind of a Vertigo release, but also kind of a DC release, judging by the other characters.

I know there were some other places too, but I'm not done tagging him so I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Gryphon]

Okay, absolutely. As much as I love McCarthy, Paul Pope would be great.

im not familair with his work so i cant give my opinion on that

[Gryphon]

with the recent news that vertigo characters are going to show up again in the dcu, does anyone think that ditko's shade might appear again soon?

[sendingsignal]

yeah, I think so.

There's going to be a magic/weirdness team of Shade, Xanadu, Swampy, and Spider from Transmet. They operate out of the house of mystery somewhere in the DMZ.

[Anxy]

yeah, I think so.

There's going to be a magic/weirdness team of Shade, Xanadu, Swampy, and Spider from Transmet. They operate out of the house of mystery somewhere in the DMZ.

Personally, I can't wait to read Secret Vertivengers #1.

[FanboyStranger]

I think they should use all aspects of both series. Let's say after the Suicide Squad stuff he went totally crazy and ended up in the looney bin. From there he escaped and had his Vertigo adventures. Then he ends up in the new story finally remembering all that had gone on and can be re-incorporated into DC proper.
Oh... and his series should be done by JMS and Paul Pope.

There's an even easier out: the end of the Vertigo Shade series had Shade travelling back in time to save Kathy George's family from Troy Grenzer, who was Shade's host body on Earth. Essentiallly, Shade's trip through time negated everything that came before, but you can say that because of the power of madness the Vertigo Shade exists as his own paradox. You can then say that the Ditko series actuallly came after the end of the Vertigo series, which effectively gives us two Shades.

Paul Pope is a good call. Not sold on JMS, though. I'm thinking Rick Veitch would be good for a Shade series if he were interested.

[xorn87]

im not familair with his work so i cant give my opinion on that

Here ya go.
Brenden McCarthy
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/01/spidermanfevercover-584.jpg
Paul Pope
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/wednesday-strange-pope.jpg

[xorn87]

Paul Pope is a good call. Not sold on JMS, though. I'm thinking Rick Veitch would be good for a Shade series if he were interested.

Veitch would be a good choice. What about Arcudi?

[Gryphon]

Here ya go.
Brenden McCarthy
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/01/spidermanfevercover-584.jpg
Paul Pope
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/wednesday-strange-pope.jpg

i was actually only refering to paul pope.

from what you posted his stuff looks interesting

[FanboyStranger]

Veitch would be a good choice. What about Arcudi?

Arcudi would be a great choice. He's a very underrated writer with a great grasp on weirdness, action, and humor.

[Gryphon]

There's an even easier out: the end of the Vertigo Shade series had Shade travelling back in time to save Kathy George's family from Troy Grenzer, who was Shade's host body on Earth. Essentiallly, Shade's trip through time negated everything that came before, but you can say that because of the power of madness the Vertigo Shade exists as his own paradox. You can then say that the Ditko series actuallly came after the end of the Vertigo series, which effectively gives us two Shades.

Paul Pope is a good call. Not sold on JMS, though. I'm thinking Rick Veitch would be good for a Shade series if he were interested.

interesting. very interesting

[Dave Hackett]

I'd rather see more stories with Milligan's version.

Then you're in luck, because he's guest starring in Milligan's Hellblazer stories over the next few months.

[xorn87]

Arcudi would be a great choice. He's a very underrated writer with a great grasp on weirdness, action, and humor.

I just remember loving his Spectre work and his wacked out The Mask series.

[Gryphon]

Then you're in luck, because he's guest starring in Milligan's Hellblazer stories over the next few months.

i forgot about that

[Gryphon]

I've still got my original issues; 8 IIRC, and I love them.

Much as I love the Vertigo Shade, I love Ditko's original twice as much.

Somebody needs to do it. Yes, Brendan McCarthy would be perfect but it would have to be a mini with the pace he goes at.

Michael Golden could be great too. Maybe Shane Davis, Barry Kitson or Tom Scioli.

there was a ninth issue released in cancelled comics calvalcade or whatever the title was

[FanboyStranger]

I just remember loving his Spectre work and his wacked out The Mask series.
I don't remember Arcudi writing The Spectre. Was this at the tail end of the Hal Jordan/DeMatteis series? I gave up on that around issue 13 except for the Ostrander two-parter.

[xorn87]

I don't remember Arcudi writing The Spectre. Was this at the tail end of the Hal Jordan/DeMatteis series? I gave up on that around issue 13 except for the Ostrander two-parter.

I was confusing Arcudi with Doug Moench. I've been reading a lot of my old Major Bummer issues lately!

[Gryphon]

yeah, I think so.

There's going to be a magic/weirdness team of Shade, Xanadu, Swampy, and Spider from Transmet. They operate out of the house of mystery somewhere in the DMZ.

transmet and dmz are creator owned

[sendingsignal]

transmet and dmz are creator owned

yeah, that's why that was really obviously a joke.

[Gryphon]

yeah, that's why that was really obviously a joke.

my apologies. i missed the humour

[sendingsignal]

my apologies. i missed the humour

haha no problem - didn't mean to be harsh :biggrin:

[Gryphon]

haha no problem - didn't mean to be harsh :biggrin:

i often miss jokes that people are saying so this happens alot with me

[Gryphon]

dc is going to do colour reprints of suicide squad and im mentioning this here because ostrander used ditko's shade in the series. so just mentioning it for anyone interested.

[Gryphon]

he's in a couple group shots (can't remember exactly where right now) and he shows up in the one shot Totems, which is kind of a Vertigo release, but also kind of a DC release, judging by the other characters.

I know there were some other places too, but I'm not done tagging him so I can't remember off the top of my head.

interesting...

[BooCoo]

Shade is going to feature prominently in the JSA/JLA crossover this summer. According to solicits, the JSA and JLA both will go to him for help in dealing with starheart addled Alan. supposedly a last ditch move. I know Alan and Shade go way back, it should be interesting.

[Gryphon]

Shade is going to feature prominently in the JSA/JLA crossover this summer. According to solicits, the JSA and JLA both will go to him for help in dealing with starheart addled Alan. supposedly a last ditch move. I know Alan and Shade go way back, it should be interesting.

ummm, i think thats the shade and not shade the changing man

[Gryphon]

Veitch would be a good choice. What about Arcudi?

what has arcudi done? i dont know his work very well.

[Gryphon]

also, if ditko's shade were brought back, what title should he come back in?

[hondobrode]

what has arcudi done? i dont know his work very well.

He's written Aquaman in the last couple of years, Doom Patrol before John Byrne's version, and the "Fight Club" Thunderbolts at Marvel.

His stuff is decent.

[Gryphon]

He's written Aquaman in the last couple of years, Doom Patrol before John Byrne's version, and the "Fight Club" Thunderbolts at Marvel.

His stuff is decent.

oh okay i think i read his doom patrol

it was okay

[FanboyStranger]

He's written Aquaman in the last couple of years, Doom Patrol before John Byrne's version, and the "Fight Club" Thunderbolts at Marvel.

His stuff is decent.

He's also been writing BPRD with Mignola over the past decade, and it's probably been the best 'superhero' title on the stands during that period. His Major Bummer series with Doug Mahnke for DC in the '90s was a great superhero/humor title.

[Gryphon]

He's also been writing BPRD with Mignola over the past decade, and it's probably been the best 'superhero' title on the stands during that period. His Major Bummer series with Doug Mahnke for DC in the '90s was a great superhero/humor title.

i have to catch up on bprd

[sendingsignal]

i have to catch up on bprd

Something I've been meaning to do as well - catch up on the whole hellboy universe.

[Gryphon]

Something I've been meaning to do as well - catch up on the whole hellboy universe.

i wish dark horse would publish brick trades that have like twp pr three bprd trades in one

but back on topic

would you agree with the idea that shade was likr a sci fi version of doctor strange?

[sendingsignal]

i wish dark horse would publish brick trades that have like twp pr three bprd trades in one

but back on topic

would you agree with the idea that shade was likr a sci fi version of doctor strange?

Maybe. I never got to read much doctor strange, unfortunately. What I read was pretty tame compared to Shade, milligan at least.

[Gryphon]

Maybe. I never got to read much doctor strange, unfortunately. What I read was pretty tame compared to Shade, milligan at least.

i was actually talking about ditko's shade though

dr strange being ditko's other major marvel creation after spiderman, ive heard his shade was similar to dr strange though as ive never read it, i cant say for certain

[sendingsignal]

oh dur, yeah, that makes a lot more sense. I don't know, I need to read a lot more of both. I've definitely not read enough classic Strange.

[Gryphon]

oh dur, yeah, that makes a lot more sense. I don't know, I need to read a lot more of both. I've definitely not read enough classic Strange.
read the first volume of essential doctor strange, to see his run. or if you will wait, marvel is going to put out a softcover of the first masterworks edition which will be in colour.

[sendingsignal]

read the first volume of essential doctor strange, to see his run. or if you will wait, marvel is going to put out a softcover of the first masterworks edition which will be in colour.

Yeah, I think I'll wait for that. I have the feeling I'd really want to read Strange in color.

[Gryphon]

Yeah, I think I'll wait for that. I have the feeling I'd really want to read Strange in color.

yea, to get the true psychedelic feeling, it needs to be read in colour

[Gryphon]

Does anyone have scans or any images of these issues that they can post?

[booklet printing]

His Major Bummer series with Doug Mahnke for DC in the '90s was a great superhero/humor title.

lol I remember it what a bummer

[Gryphon]

lol I remember it what a bummer

heh........
..

[Gryphon]

Does anyone have scans or any images of these issues that they can post?

anyone?

....

[Gryphon]

With the confirmation of dc characters in vertigo returning to the dcu, would this mean milligan's shade will show up there or does anyone think ditko's shade might show up again?

[hondobrode]

I'm hoping it's the pre-Vertigo Shade we see again.

[Babylon23]

It's an interesting question. While many of the Vertigo characters remained essentially the same character as they were pre-Vertigo (in that there is a clear progression from pre-Vertigo interpretation to Vertigo version), Shade is in a bit of a grey area.

It's possible in some respects to reconcile both versions as a single character, especially in Milligan and Bachelo's interpreation of Meta. However, Shade himself is clearly very different in Milligan's run.

Maybe they could approach things in the same way Giffen is handling Doom Patrol, incorporating all versions of the character into one consistent continuity.

[Gryphon]

I'm hoping it's the pre-Vertigo Shade we see again.

Im not sure who I would prefer at this point.

[sendingsignal]

I think there should be a team-up title with the two of them.

[Gryphon]

It's an interesting question. While many of the Vertigo characters remained essentially the same character as they were pre-Vertigo (in that there is a clear progression from pre-Vertigo interpretation to Vertigo version), Shade is in a bit of a grey area.

It's possible in some respects to reconcile both versions as a single character, especially in Milligan and Bachelo's interpreation of Meta. However, Shade himself is clearly very different in Milligan's run.

Maybe they could approach things in the same way Giffen is handling Doom Patrol, incorporating all versions of the character into one consistent continuity.

That would be interesting.

[Gryphon]

I think there should be a team-up title with the two of them.

That could be cool.

[Gryphon]

http://www.amazon.com/Steve-Ditko-Omnibus-Vol/dp/140123111X/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3VR0B64HGRX9Y&colid=18FBV3J2CKK0


At long last, it looks like this will finally be reprinted.

[machbear]

http://www.amazon.com/Steve-Ditko-Omnibus-Vol/dp/140123111X/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3VR0B64HGRX9Y&colid=18FBV3J2CKK0


At long last, it looks like this will finally be reprinted.

Looking forward to this, and who knows if it does well, Marvel might take the hint and give us that Dr Strange Omnibus that's long overdue.