why do comic book writers hate Tony Stark?

[pariah-1972]

Ok it seems to be a recurring theme a lot of times that Tony is not exactly the greatest guy in the book and can be a bit too shady at times for his own good.

1. apparently he did some things pre-onslaught that was bad that made the writers bring in "Teen Tony" to fix things up so his character wouldn't be a complete Asshole.

2. Armour Wars went a little too far over the edge in trying to protect his inventions and ended up on the wrong side at least morally he started going after other superheros without even a thought and then him and Cap got into it.

3. Civil war again went too far in one direction and alienated the superhero community and backstabbed at least two people who were his friends.
And then his hubris somehow created the Dark Reign with Osbourne in charge of Shield/Hammer and the Thunderbolts

4.X-men forever - seems to be complacent in a scheme to wipe out all mutants and collaborating with villains.

I have read articles that Tony was originally supposed to be a bit of a jerk sometimes but there's a huge difference between being a jerk and a mustache twirling Villain.

Also it doesn't seem like Marvel knows what to do with him sometimes at least comic book wise.

So my question is what is the problem here and why are Marvel so keen on making Tony completely unlikeable or relate-able?

[YouveBeenRulked]

Most playwrights, directors, writers tend to be a little out there, a little free thinking, a little liberal
The love their country but they don't love anything about the Reagan and Bush years

Tony is an exaggeration of the rightwing warmongering playboy....the big right wing CEO who gets caught with hookers, Tony is the man who agrees to clean up the city by grabbing one of the biggest green vandals and blasting him into space, Ironman the guy who sold the south Vietnamese tanks and guns but then gets landed in the mess when the proverbial hits the fan...he's the cowboy, the drinker, the mayor, the sheriff with the morally ambiguous, anti-hero roles
Tony the smart mouth guy with big brains who wants to privatize repulsor blasters and the only way you'll get him to give up his guns is by ripping them from his cold dead hands.

Forget bashing Daredevil or Batman....its Ironman that's in their crosshairs. He's the perfect dartboard for left leaning writers

[Sighphi]

Stark is a businessman not a hero, he flies around in his suit just to protect his business.

He isnt doing this because he feels this is the right thing to do, he is doing this just so whoever is opposing him get's taken down!!!

Hell, according to the 94 SHIELD one shot that tells us the "real history" of how SHIELD got started (retcon) SHIELD was created by Tony to protect "American Business." So dudes like HYDRA wont steal tech and use them for their schemes

[Global Honored]

Hmm...not sure. I think maybe the writers LIKE a character that isn't a boy scout and does some questionable things because after all Tony Stark is human and powerless except for being brilliant, having mad game and a fat wallet. Humans aren't perfect. If someone was stealing my shiznit that I made billions off of and could potentially use it against me or innocents, I might go beyond the moral boundary to get it back and set things right by me. Plus..tony likes the tequila.

[pariah-1972]

Most playwrights, directors, writers tend to be a little out there, a little free thinking, a little liberal
The love their country but they don't love anything about the Reagan and Bush years

Tony is an exaggeration of the rightwing warmongering playboy....the big right wing CEO who gets caught with hookers, Tony is the man who agrees to clean up the city by grabbing one of the biggest green vandals and blasting him into space, Ironman the guy who sold the south Vietnamese tanks and guns but then gets landed in the mess when the proverbial hits the fan...he's the cowboy, the drinker, the mayor, the sheriff with the morally ambiguous, anti-hero roles
Tony the smart mouth guy with big brains who wants to privatize repulsor blasters and the only way you'll get him to give up his guns is by ripping them from his cold dead hands.

Forget bashing Daredevil or Batman....its Ironman that's in their crosshairs. He's the perfect dartboard for left leaning writersOf course this brings up the question if he is just more right centered compared to people like Cap ? and does the movie version seem to more him away from that since the movie version is much more like-able to me.

Was he always meant to be stand in for Right Wing politics? and then the question becomes would he really fit in with that group since he is a scientist and a businessman and doesn't seem to pretend to have any moral boundaries like a lot of politicians do.

[pariah-1972]

Hmm...not sure. I think maybe the writers LIKE a character that isn't a boy scout and does some questionable things because after all Tony Stark is human and powerless except for being brilliant, having mad game and a fat wallet. Humans aren't perfect. If someone was stealing my shiznit that I made billions off of and could potentially use it against me or innocents, I might go beyond the moral boundary to get it back and set things right by me. Plus..tony likes the tequila.There are lots of characters whom aren't boy scouts but you can tell that the powers that be and the writers really love that character ( wolverine or batman) sometimes they cross ethical boundaries but never so much as Stark seems to do which almost always seems to come back and smack him in the face.


I don't know i'm just seeing a pattern that a lot of writers and the head honchos at Marvel like the editors just don't really like him all that much so he makes a great patsy for when they need someone to cross lines.

[XPac]

It's not hate at all... I think they LOVE the Armor Wars/Civil War Stark. He's a character that clearly generates a good deal of heat from readers and a lot of discussion. Stark became the most talked about character in all of comics because of Civil War... and writers wanted a piece of that.

It's ultimately not about being a boy scout or not, it's about being interesting. And the shadier Stark is certainly that.

[pariah-1972]

It's not hate at all... I think they LOVE the Armor Wars/Civil War Stark. He's a character that clearly generates a good deal of heat from readers and a lot of discussion. Stark became the most talked about character in all of comics because of Civil War... and writers wanted a piece of that.

It's ultimately not about being a boy scout or not, it's about being interesting. And the shadier Stark is certainly that.But a lot of readers may find this "shades" off putting or un-relateable also.

I have a hard time relating to him period i always have, but i like the Ultimate Version better cause he seems more in line with the movie who seems to have a better moral compass even when he does dumb things he doesn't go around stabbing his friends in the back or becoming a villain he just gets sloshed mostly.

[Van Custo]

They're racist against his moustache.

[pariah-1972]

They're racist against his moustache.He could also be half mexican from his mother's side.:evilsmile:

[gorthon616]

I don't think they hate him, he's just a convenient foil due to his character, i.e. businessman/weapon's manufacturer. Every writer, particularly these days, has it out for these people/ideas and Tony is just the most convenient vehicle for those storylines.

[pariah-1972]

I don't think they hate him, he's just a convenient foil due to his character, i.e. businessman/weapon's manufacturer. Every writer, particularly these days, has it out for these people/ideas and Tony is just the most convenient vehicle for those storylines.Sure you make a lot of valid points but why is being a Weapons Manufacturer such a bad thing? he has constantly shown (at least since his first accident) to be almost neurotic about his inventions getting in the wrong hands and i don't believe that every gun manufacturer is inherently evil.


Has Tony ever shown to have the same views as any conservatives or republicans ?

[spidarwin]

They're racist against his moustache.

QFS.



Ok it seems to be a recurring theme a lot of times that Tony is not exactly the greatest guy in the book and can be a bit too shady at times for his own good.
[snip]
So my question is what is the problem here and why are Marvel so keen on making Tony completely unlikeable or [relatable]?

No, your question was, "Why do comic book writers hate Tony Stark?"

And yet, a better question, Pariah...

Why do you think they hate him? What exactly makes you think they hate him?
None of your examples indicate they hate him... if they hated Iron Man, they
clearly wouldn't use him.

Each of your individual points may bear investigation, but none of them supports
the idea anyone particularly "hates" Tony Stark.

[gorthon616]

Sure you make a lot of valid points but why is being a Weapons Manufacturer such a bad thing? he has constantly shown (at least since his first accident) to be almost neurotic about his inventions getting in the wrong hands and i don't believe that every gun manufacturer is inherently evil.

Has Tony ever shown to have the same views as any conservatives or republicans?

Personally, I agree with you. And I have a distaste for when they use his character like that.

But I would imagine across the board most comic fans/comic creators would say that being a Weapons Manufacturer is on par with being a mass murderer, at least on some metaphoric level. And corporations are akin to slave traders. I mean, superhero comics are generally predicated upon this notion of "victory without killing" and "heroism without reward", so it's certainly an environment that fosters such ideas.

Like I said, I'm don't agree with what they do, but I feel that they treat him that way because they have some message they want to put out and Tony is a convenient vehicle for that.

[Finganforn]

They're racist against his moustache.

They're envy! Not everyone can look like a credible business man and a credible porn actor at the same time with the same moustache. Talk about multi-tasking.

[pariah-1972]

QFS.




No, your question was, "Why do comic book writers hate Tony Stark?"

And yet, a better question, Pariah...

Why do you think they hate him? What exactly makes you think they hate him?
None of your examples indicate they hate him... if they hated Iron Man, they
clearly wouldn't use him.

Each of your individual points may bear investigation, but none of them supports
the idea anyone particularly "hates" Tony Stark.Well maybe hate is the wrong term to use... i don't know, but it seems to me that the only time writers and even the comic community like Tony is when he is doing something completely dick-ish or taking some sort of heel turn that's the only thing writers can find interesting for him to do.

I even wonder how much of a hero he truly is sometimes because his motivations are good usually.. but he crosses a lot of boundaries and ends up back stabbing his friends and partners .

Would you want to be friends with someone like this? the man who put Captain America in Jail and ended up getting him Murdered (not entirely his fault but he did have something to do with it) cause he disagreed with him and stood up to him when everyone in the Marvel Universe ran away from him like a coward?

He alienated and divided the Superhero community so much that he was able to let a scumbag like Norman to take over.

Out of almost all the Marvel characters he seems to me the least reliable and trustworthy cause he can't seem to ever pull his head out of his ass and realize how his actions affect other people besides himself.


I sometimes wonder if the mindwipe he did to himself was some way of secretly trying to pass off the responsibility of his actions like a lot of Alcoholics do they use there drinking as an excuse so they don't have to be responsible for there actions they did when they were drunk.


If there is anything i can see in comparison to him and Dubya its that they are both technically "dry drunks" even when they have been completely sober they do somethings that make you question there judgment.

As a comic book reader the only versions of Iron Man i have liked are the Ultimate Version who is much funnier and less of an asshole and the movie version who is kind to his friends and partners and is pretty funny.

[SquidSquod]

Well movie Tony Stark seems to show the comic book writers that there's actually way to produce a self-centered yet still very winsome Tony Stark. The key is never make him too evil but often morally misguided. Add some fun and a whole lot of wit - you'll see a Tony that make cookie cutter boy scout or emo superheroes look less appealing.

Thank you Robert Downey, Jr.

[pariah-1972]

Well movie Tony Stark seems to show the comic book writers that there's actually way to produce a self-centered yet still very winsome Tony Stark. The key is never make him too evil but often morally misguided. Add some fun and a whole lot of wit - you'll see a Tony that make cookie cutter boy scout or emo superheroes look less appealing.

Thank you Robert Downey, Jr.I think he has his morals in the right place for the big things his only weakness is the playboy lifestyle.

[NewMutant]

I've never thought Iron Man was bad/evil in the comics.

Or right-winged even. That actually seems more Cap to me than IM. That is what was great about Civil War is they both went against type.

I think it is interesting that movie Tony is more fun, and it is basically because he still drinks. lol.

[Alan2099]

Not ever writer can ruin Daredevil's life. They have to spread the hate out somewhere.

[pariah-1972]

I've never thought Iron Man was bad/evil in the comics.

Or right-winged even. That actually seems more Cap to me than IM. That is what was great about Civil War is they both went against type.

I think it is interesting that movie Tony is more fun, and it is basically because he still drinks. lol.Regular universe Cap is full on bleeding heart liberal but also a huge patriot.

Nixon even tried to get him destroyed if that doesn't tell you anything.

[SquidSquod]

Yeah, to me Iron Man is quite liberal in a sense he's anti establishment and more international (ie his fav sport is soccer) than most superheroes.



and it is basically because he still drinks. lol.


Nah, I like him getting over his demon called alcohol. Evian drinking Tony Stark is a better role model.

[mikekerr3]

O
So my question is what is the problem here and why are Marvel so keen on making Tony completely unlikeable or relate-able?

More than anything i think it is a political ideiolgical bent , To many someone choosing the side that he chose makes him a villain working for "the Man" in older terms

Marvel is anti-authority, anti-military (rabidly) and ant- government on the whole since those guys are their ever present stock villains and have been for decades.

[mikekerr3]

Sure you make a lot of valid points but why is being a Weapons Manufacturer such a bad thing? he has constantly shown (at least since his first accident) to be almost neurotic about his inventions getting in the wrong hands and i don't believe that every gun manufacturer is inherently evil.
?

Read the 198 and you will find that he is not too particular in about his weapons getting into the wrong hands. He willingly supplies those folks

[pariah-1972]

More than anything i think it is a political ideiolgical bent , To many someone choosing the side that he chose makes him a villain working for "the Man" in older terms

Marvel is anti-authority, anti-military (rabidly) and ant- government on the whole since those guys are their ever present stock villains and have been for decades.Yes that does make perfect sense But if this makes Tony a Villain wot about Nick Fury who is even more a tool of the government?

[mikekerr3]

Yes that does make perfect sense But if this makes Tony a Villain wot about Nick Fury who is even more a tool of the government?

Nick doesn't follow the governments rules he a "maverick: he get a free pass.
Nick would have been smart enough to just inforce the SHRA just enough to appease the slime bags until something could be done t restore sanity adn not gone Nutso/terrorist to enforce it

[pariah-1972]

Nick doesn't follow the governments rules he a "maverick: he get a free pass.
Nick would have been smart enough to just inforce the SHRA just enough to appease the slime bags until something could be done t restore sanity adn not gone Nutso/terrorist to enforce itPoint Tony has always had trouble learning when to stop things before they get out of hand.

I really hope with this whole heroic age coming into Marvel we see a change in Tony that at least shows some respect for the character and his ideals without making him a boy scout.

[Splatt]

If they hate Tony Stark, I'd hate to think how they feel about Matt Murdock.

[pariah-1972]

If they hate Tony Stark, I'd hate to think how they feel about Matt Murdock.The difference is Matt is seen as someone who is clearly a good person most of the time who occasionally makes bad judgement calls.

[TF_loki]

The difference is Matt is seen as someone who is clearly a good person most of the time who occasionally makes bad judgement calls.

That describes Tony perfectly. JMS and Jenkins did him (and his characterization) a disservice during Civil war but that aside I think you could apply that to Tony for everything else.

[pariah-1972]

That describes Tony perfectly. JMS and Jenkins did him (and his characterization) a disservice during Civil war but that aside I think you could apply that to Tony for everything else.I wish that were true but in my opinion i don't think Tony is as good a person as Matt.

[Splatt]

The difference is Matt is seen as someone who is clearly a good person most of the time who occasionally makes bad judgement calls.

Yeah, like not eating a tuna sandwich on a hot summer day. For that sin, he must suffer and see his life crumble between his fingers for 150+ issues.

[pariah-1972]

Yeah, like not eating a tuna sandwich on a hot summer day. For that sin, he must suffer and see his life crumble between his fingers for 150+ issues.?????????????????:confused:

[mikekerr3]

Point Tony has always had trouble learning when to stop things before they get out of hand.

I really hope with this whole heroic age coming into Marvel we see a change in Tony that at least shows some respect for the character and his ideals without making him a boy scout.

I agree I like Tony the arrogant jerk, but not Tony the authoritarian thug or Tony the terrorist

[pariah-1972]

I agree I like Tony the arrogant jerk, but not Tony the authoritarian thug or Tony the terroristUnfortunately with him one leads into the other.

Like i have said before i much prefer the Ultimate one cause he is more like the movie one where he is acerbic and funny and witty and sometimes even cocky but except with Jeph Loeb he never lets his various demons conquer him completely.

[TF_loki]

I wish that were true but in my opinion i don't think Tony is as good a person as Matt.

Oh let's not pretend that Matt isn't an insensitive f***wit sometimes too. Unless he's gotten all soft and fluffy in the 10 years since I last read a Daredevil comic....

[Earth2Invincible]

The reason Tony was treated badly doing Civil War was that all the writers of the core Marvel titles felt Cap was the voice of justice and had to have Iron Man as the villian(ex:ASM)

none of the writers could give both Cap and Iron Man a heroic look so they went with the one they all agreed on

[Gene M.]

A Marvel hero being written to have major character flaws and to make bad decisions with the right intentions? I guess there's a first time for everything.

[gorthon616]

If they hate Tony Stark, I'd hate to think how they feel about Matt Murdock.

Matt Murdock doesn't run a huge corporation that makes weapons. He's just a guy. If Matt was Iron Man, he'd have the same treatment. Probably worse.

However, being street-level means that means that he's more an object of sympathy.

[pariah-1972]

The reason Tony was treated badly doing Civil War was that all the writers of the core Marvel titles felt Cap was the voice of justice and had to have Iron Man as the villian(ex:ASM)

none of the writers could give both Cap and Iron Man a heroic look so they went with the one they all agreed onAnd i understood why they did it for Civil War but let's face it whatever he did wasn't completely out of character for him.


But and this is my point it is still going on right nowTony was the big bad of the Consortium which killed Wolverine and was planning on killing all mutants on the planet, and for some strange reason was on board with all of this until the very last minute when it was too late even tho he know all along what was going on.

[pariah-1972]

Oh let's not pretend that Matt isn't an insensitive f***wit sometimes too. Unless he's gotten all soft and fluffy in the 10 years since I last read a Daredevil comic....What's the worst Matt has done ? cheated on his wife and lied to Foggy? compared to what Tony has done it's apples and oranges.

[Alan2099]

That describes Tony perfectly. JMS and Jenkins did him (and his characterization) a disservice during Civil war but that aside I think you could apply that to Tony for everything else.

Civil War did him a disservice. Jenkins and JMS just followed what everybody else was doing with the character.