Since we seem to be schizoid, I hope it's endearing...

[ChrisDonaghy]

But it probably isn't, judging from what seems to be the general perception of Diana's fans.

What am I talking about, now that I have your attention? Well, it's this:

In eight months of reading and contributing to these boards, I think it's safe to say that one thing we all agree on is that Diana's supporting cast needs to stabilized and developed. Kapatelisae, Sandsmarks, Amazons, Steve'n'Etta, Etta without Steve, Steve without Etta, all the various clunkers of romantic relationships, pantheons...I don't think there isn't a poster at one time or another who hasn't complained about the fluidity (to be charitable) of life as a Wondy cast member.

If there was a DC Universe version of ACORN, half the membership would comprise Wonder Woman supporting characters.

So, with another change of creative staff coming due, we naturally speculate about what changes will be made. We've got two threads going right now about what will happen to the characters Gail has brought on board. Now given that we all agree that stability is a GOOD thing, what do you think we're saying should happen to them?

Because we are insane, we are of course recommending major revisions -- have the gorillas stuffed, shove Achilles, Mysia and the Gargareans into limbo (have you ever TRIED to fit a two-headed elephant through a dimensional doorway?). Given the general popularity of the Diana Prince ID, I suspect most of us would prefer the DOMA stay in the midst of Genocide's version of urban renewal. That leaves us with the Amazons (who I keep reading are such a "drag" on the book's popularity) and Tamika. She's a top-flight nurse, but she can't do everything. Etta is apparently also safe, except for that significant number of people who think the best thing to happen to her would be to have her marriage disappear. (No, I don't think JMS will go anywhere NEAR that again,)

Instead of scorched earth, let's think of ways to make the cast we've got right now BETTER, shall we? Starting off with the fundamental premise that nobody gets shipped out, how would you go about fleshing out some of these characters? For example, the gorillas serve a great purpose in bringing a sense of fun and humor to the book -- is that such a horrible thing in the current DC world? Hell, no. But what's the best way to use them going forward?

Heck, we might even make this a better book if we didn't give in to the same urge that we complain about every creator taking, if I may say so!

OK, everyone into a circle and commence firing...

[americanwonder]

...I don't think there isn't a poster at one time or another who hasn't complained about the fluidity (to be charitable) of life as a Wondy cast member.

Now given that we all agree that stability is a GOOD thing, ...

At the risk of sounding argumentative - ok, I am argumentative :redface: - but, I think fluidity of cast and setting can be a good thing when used well.

That's not to say I always want to see everything being chucked out the window with each new creative change. But, fluidity can add some spicey variety. Besides, how many of us live in the same city and work at the same job with the same five people for 20+ years? People move around.

I also find your use of the term "schizoid" somewhat ironic:


Schizoid Personality Disorder is a condition characterized by excessive detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings.
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe02.html

If we were "schizoid," wouldn't we then not be all that interested in Diana's supporting cast and relationships? :wink:

[ChrisDonaghy]

At the risk of sounding argumentative - ok, I am argumentative :redface: - but, I think fluidity of cast and setting can be a good thing when used well.

That's not to say I always want to see everything being chucked out the window with each new creative change. But, fluidity can add some spicey variety. Besides, how many of us live in the same city and work at the same job with the same five people for 20+ years? People move around.

I also find your use of the term "schizoid" somewhat ironic:



If we were "schizoid," wouldn't we then not be all that interested in Diana's supporting cast and relationships? :wink:

Funny thing is, I wondered when I wrote that how long it would take for someone to call me on using the colloquial rather than the proper meaning of that psychological term.

Should've bet the under on it. You are of course correct. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Of course, Diana hasn't been done irreparable damage by her shifting life over the last 25 years. But all the various Rosencrantzes and Guildensterns she's picked up would beg to differ as to how beneficial it's been.

DC Limbo is pretty crowded -- and it's run by a fool, if I understand correctly. Anyone who lived in America from 2001 -- no, I can't say that without violating board regs, probably, right?

[DarkKnghtJared]

Challenging comic book geeks to constructively create ideas instead of idly bitching and wanting things they hate killed off? Perish the thought! :tongue:

Seriously, that is an interesting idea...let's think about it...

One that comes to mind is maybe linking the Gorilla Knights with Gorilla City somehow. It would also be a great way to have Diana and Flash team up. :biggrin:

[americanwonder]

Funny thing is, I wondered when I wrote that how long it would take for someone to call me on using the colloquial rather than the proper meaning of that psychological term.

Happy to help. :biggrin: Generally, I find the colloquial use rather odd - but here, it just struck me as particualary funny given that the thread was about Diana's social relationships.

Then again, maybe it's just my own odd version of a sense of humor that's past its warranty or the fact that I should be asleep or the medication or... where was I again?


... as to how beneficial it's been.

Oh, I don't think it's always been beneficial either. I'm just not a believer that every character needs the standard set of unchanging side-kicks for 50 years. That tends to bore me. I also don't think that "limbo" is such a terrible thing.

Sure, it can feel terrible when a favorite doesn't get the love and is sent off stage - I miss them, too. But sometimes it may be for the best. Just as Gail didn't feel like writing Ferdinand because he felt too much like a Rucka character, I'm not sure that the gorillas will 'click' with JMS and his ideas for WW. So, some characters come and go - that's life.

Getting back to your general idea here, of the cast members we do have, I most hope that Steve, Etta, and Hippolyta stick around in some sort of role of quality and substance. I'd also love it if the Amazons were given some good purpose other that "red shirt" (or is that 'red skirt' in this case? :wink: ).

[americanwonder]

One that comes to mind is maybe linking the Gorilla Knights with Gorilla City somehow.

Isn't that where they are from? What other type of connection are you looking for? :confused:

[BnL]

The thing is, Diana's supporting cast is pretty crowded. So if newer additions like the Gorilla Knights and Achilles are written out of the book (without killing them off), I don't mind that.

To me, the core, classic supporting characters are the ones that should be focused on: Steve, Etta, and Hippolyta. They're the ones who've been there since the beginning, and they should still be there now.

Donna and Cassie should have important roles too, but editorial often interferes with their inclusion since they appear in other books. But whenever possible, I'd like to see them as a part of Diana's life.

Of the other Amazons, Phillipus and Artemis are the only important ones, and the only ones I feel are worth using in any meaningful capacity (although I wouldn't mind Mala and the reformed Paula Von Gunther elevated to this status as well). All the rest should stick to the background for the most part. Excluding The Circle, of course. They're great villains that deserve to become a regular part of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.

As for the Gods, I think a common problem with using them is that they often come across as too important to the story. Wonder Woman is supposed to be the star of the show. Diana and the Amazons are usually used as their puppets, and to me, that's much less interesting than seeing Wonder Woman being her own person, in control of her own destiny. So I think the Gods (minus Ares, being that he's pretty much her main enemy) should be used sparingly.

[PabloD]

Warning: major blabbering ahead. Probably lots of nonsense too, so feel free to skip ahead if you're not interested.

I don't necessarily have an issue with a supporting cast that shifts several times over the years, provided it's something that happens naturally organically. That has, of course, not always been the way when it comes to Wonder Woman.

I also think that, while it's true that Wonder Woman's probably always going to have a very eclectic supporting cast (since she's a character who has her hands in a lot of pies, e.g., the Amazons, the regular world, the gods, the superheroes, etc.) there is such a thing as being too eclectic, which I think a) makes the book seem more crowded and disparate than it actually is, and b) probably makes it more challenging to write, which in turn makes it less likely that a new writer will want to take over the same supporting cast the previous writer used.

(And I mean...just take a look at the three characters, or groups of characters, that have made up the bulk of the supporting cast for most of volume 3: 1) Wonder Woman's mom, who is a queen 2) her boyfriend and her friend, who are secret government agents 3) a group of talking monkeys who lounge about her house. That's...yeah, pretty varied)

And it was like that even back when Perez was doing the book. Back then the supporting cast was a 13 year-old kid, her mom, the Amazons, a bunch of gods (with special emphasis on Hermes), two Air Force officers and, to a smaller degree, two cops and (to a much smaller degree) two other superheroes (Superman and Donna Troy). Just all over the place, you know? So a bit of focus might be, I think, a good idea. For my money, the best supporting cast she's ever had is the one from Rucka's run, which was mostly made up of embassy staff members and a few notable Amazons (Artemis, Phillipus, Io, etc.). While it would have been nice to have Donna and Hippolyta around, because they're both great characters who have great relationships with Diana, I do get the feeling that their absence kind of helped streamline things in this regard.

I also kind of think that a good supporting cast needs to flow organically from the settings and surroundings of the book's protagonist. Otherwise, it runs the risk of feeling a little contrived and convoluted. It's part of why I think Rucka's cast worked so well, and it's also why I think Spider-Man's (to give an example of a character that I think usually has a solid mix of characters backing him up) is effective too. Right now, his cast is made up of: his roommate, his coworker, his (adoptive) mother and new stepfather, his ex, a friend from way back, a couple of college buddies and a friend made by association. The reason it works well is because all of these are people you can expect to find in the life of a 25-30 year-old guy, which is what Spider-Man is.

So if you want to get a good, solid supporting cast, I think the first step might be to clearly define who and what Diana is, and get a good feel of it. Then you go from there. If she's an ambassador, then it'd make sense that most of her supporting characters would be people who work for her. If she's a secret agent, then it ought to be fellow secret agents. If she's a full-time superhero...and so on.

[the4thpip]

The obvious solution would be to bring back Sensation Comics as a second Wonder Woman title, with a lead feature by Gail and a backup featuring supporting cast members and villains written by the creators most closely associated with them.

[Constantine Drakon]

Bring back the Embassy.

The removal of the Embassy was ludicrous and quite probably the single dumbest thing done in the book since Crisis. Frankly it was one of the dumbest things done in ANY DC book since Crisis. Perez set up the Ambassadorial role (really just solidifying and modernizing an idea already there), Luke built on it by creating nicer embassies, Jimenez ran with it, Rucka soared with it, and then

HEY-LETS-TURN-DIANA-INTO-A-SUPERSPY!

The work of several writers naturally building on one another scuppered because someone somewhere thought a bit of Emma Peel 70s "white suit" nostalgia would sell. And I'm sure it did, initially. And once that bit of novelty wore off you were just left with the worst secret identity in comics and the ruins of YEARS of hard work.

The Embassy had Diana's armory, and a "magic portal" allowing her to travel to Themyscira, or, presumably, other places... it was a good setting that could have been built into a great one.

Okay, with the Embassy back, fill it with interesting people. The cream of the crop from her past. Ferdinand the Minotaur, obviously. Best new supporting character added to the book since Artemis. His absence galls, because it says that even a superb new supporting character that perfectly fits into Diana's world will fall to the wayside. And Leslie comes with him, of course. And get Vanessa in there, girl needs a job and a healthy work environment where friends can watch over her. Maybe Vanessa's doing something with those Women's Shelters. Have Etta and Steve hang out all the time, even if they're not staff. And yeah, sure, maybe Steve can be Diana's "Commissioner Gordon," telling her about things she might want to look into. That'd be fine with me, and would give him something to do.

Etta, of course, needs to hang out with Diana as much as possible. I don't care how it's done, but Diana works better with someone there gently poking fun at all the weirdness she's taking so seriously. When you've got a serious klingon/samurai/Jedi character, they need a Han Solo to tag along.

Over on the Amazonian side of things - just a walk through a door, if the Embassy was back! - you have Hippolyta, Phillipus, Artemis, and Io being awesome. Personally I'd bring back Magala as the Amazon mystic. Sure she "died," but it was an off-screen magic-related death. Those things practically undo themselves.

And the gods, of course. Do whatever's necessary to make Diana's faith in them more justified. Go with Gail's idea to undouchify Zeus, or Rucka's idea to have Athena take over again (PLEASE!), whatever.

Basically? Give us the book we SHOULD have had, the book we WOULD have had if Gail had been the one that took over after Greg Rucka.


The obvious solution would be to bring back Sensation Comics as a second Wonder Woman title, with a lead feature by Gail and a backup featuring supporting cast members and villains written by the creators most closely associated with them.

Sure, a second title. And I'd like a side-order of snipe-giblets with my unicorn steaks...

[the4thpip]

Sure, a second title. And I'd like a side-order of snipe-giblets with my unicorn steaks...

The JSA has two titles plus mini series and solo book spin-offs. The Legion of Superheroes is going to have 2, as well. Titans has two. Superman has 18 titles, Batman 247. It's not too much of a stretch to give a second book to Wondy.

[CarolStrick]

I like some of Mr. Drakon's thoughts.

Yes indeed! Bring back the Embassy! But NOT with Diana as ambassador. Diana would work closely with the ambassador, but would not be held to the boring paper-shuffling, day-to-day tedium of that office. Though she would get to go to all the livelier parties!

The embassy would be the place where we could see some of our favorite Amazons (just a few!), whether they work there or travel back and forth through that nifty Magic Mirror portal. Never did understand why the Amazon Embassy never employed Amazons. The earlier ones did, didn't they?

The Amazons would go back to being from a real, honest-to-gosh utopia where things WORK. As such we wouldn't see them all, all that much, for we don't want to inject any downer drama into their society.

Donna we'd see fairly often because she's close to her sis.

Don't see any reason why Etta couldn't be a US liaison of some kind and daily visitor to the Embassy. It might bring in the occasional conflict of interest.

Nessie imho should be in college and working on starting her secret villainous career, while pretending to be Diana's "little sister." I love Nessie's villainous possibilities! I see her as the next Dr. Cyber (Bond version).

The DOMA guys weren't around long enough to make a blip on anyone's screen. Now that they've somehow handed over a US agency to the UN, it's an even worse idea. Buh-bye. (Though we might see them occasionally through Etta.)

We also didn't see all the immigrants to Paradise for that long but golly! the possibilities they personified! I'd like to see that they'd all survived The Kick and have set up several colonies around the world, trying out the Amazon Ideals in the real world and seeing how they can make them work. Could be fun; could be inspirational.

Steve we'd see not through Etta that much but as a hotline to US defense. Since the embassy's in US territory, if there's a menace to it or the US/Washington, the government would know who and where to call for help if needed. And it so often is in the DCU.

Diana should fulfill her promise to the Gorilla Knights and get them home safely and with honor. No reason why they can't pop back for a visit on occasion. Perhaps Tolifhar can be an Embassy guard as well as a liaison to Gorilla City.

Ferdinand can take his place again in the kitchens if he will agree to wear a hair net when he works!

By now Hoppy owns a chain of fast food and perhaps a regular restaurant, and manages a place not far from the Embassy.

Being Diana's biggest fan, Becca Doherty has moved into the area in hopes of catching glimpses of her hero.

Sorry, but I haven't been impressed with Achilles so far. Let him have his own adventures elsewhere. The legendary hero who fits in the Wondie mythos is Herakles, who's still alive and kicking, though he can't seem to decide whose side he's on. Let's see him stumble through every now and then. Perhaps on one of his trips he can bump into the seldom-appearing Cassie and begin to teach her how to be an arrogant goofball like his Marvel counterpart, and thus liven up her character.

And the gods? Let them be gods again, not humans that mortals can have afternoon teas with. Not people that humans can bash in the head or hug or borrow a cup of sugar from. Keep 'em in the background as flavoring, not as the focus of plots.

[Xeres]

Well you can make members of her cast better - just look at Etta. Also, keep Steve around as Etta's hubby WITHOUT references to any romantic feelings that may have occurred at one point in the past between Diana and him. Make it almost like a brother and sister relationship with all that's involved with that.

I cannot see a way for me to make Achilles and the Gorilla Knights more interesting. Heck, Mysia is more interesting than Achilles. I don't know if that says more about Achilles or the elephant.

Oh and another thing. Keep Diana's supporting cast SMALL. There's only so many pages in each issue.

Oh and I agree with Carol about the gods. Right now I don't know the difference between a god and a super hero.

[CarolStrick]

Can't the supporting cast can be large and spread out as long as the stories focus on Diana?

We haven't seen that happening much over the years.

Certain members should be seen often, and others can pop up on occasion. But Diana's the star!

[Xeres]

Can't the supporting cast can be large and spread out as long as the stories focus on Diana?

We haven't seen that happening much over the years.

Certain members should be seen often, and others can pop up on occasion. But Diana's the star!

Yes, we've seen that over the years and it hasn't worked. Etta's worked so well because there was a lot of panels with her in it, developing her character very well. By the time she "left" at the end or RoTO her character, specifically her personality, was already established so after her absence we continued to see that same character that we grew accustomed to. She didn't lose a beat. It's why I think right now, she's the best supporting character the book has ever had since I've been reading it.

Please don't dilute this process.

[AaronJ]

I agree with everything that Constantine said, so instead of simply repeating the same ideas, but less articulately, I'll leave it at that.


Also, I just don't see a second title happening unless orders on WW increase significantly, and remain increased. And that *may* actually happen. We'll have to see.

But I don't think it's likely.

[Black Atom]

As I mentioned in another thread, I think WW has trouble interacting with a stable, regular supporting cast because she doesn't really have a "home base" setting OUTSIDE of Themyscira. Characters like Batman, Superman and Spider-Man have several, each with their own cast of characters for them to interact with regularly. Superman, for instance, has the Daily Planet, where he interacts with co-workers, the Kent farm where he interacts with his parents and his home where he interacts with Lois. So much action revolves around the Amazons and Themyscira because it's the only such setting that exists for WW. The problems there are so apparent that I doubt I really need to explain them.

WW needs a setting she can go to consistently just to interact with supporting cast members. A good setting is one that she's required to visit regularly without much explanation, which is why workplace settings are commonly used. It's hard to keep coming up with reasons for WW to drop in on the Kapatelis home, for instance. Some have suggested the re-establishment of The Embassy to serve that end, but I find issues there that I've discussed in other threads. Generally, the sort of setting I'm describing should be a place where we get to see WW enjoying "down time" and interacting with friends. The Embassy does not provide this, since WW's role there is very serious. Moreover, if you fill the place up with Amazons and make a portal to Themyscira, then the Embassy is just a Little Themyscira on American soil, bringing us back to square one. A lot of the drama of WW's story is how she gets along in our world as a stranger/visitor and she should have a handful of settings where she can interact with characters that explore this dynamic.

[AaronJ]

She had plenty of "down time" in the Embassy.

[Black Atom]

She had plenty of "down time" in the Embassy.

Even "down time" felt like a drag at the Embassy. And I imagine that's because it's an Embassy. In a superhero comic book.

I'm not the hugest fan of that setting, if it's not obvious, but I guess it could be open to it if I thought it could lead to fun and interesting supporting cast interaction.

[AaronJ]

Even "down time" felt like a drag at the Embassy. And I imagine that's because it's an Embassy. In a superhero comic book.

I'm not the hugest fan of that setting, if it's not obvious, but I guess it could be open to it if I thought it could lead to fun and interesting supporting cast interaction.

So, leaning up against the wall, and just talking and joking with Ferdinand is a "drag?" Why?

Hell, that's a lot more "downtime" than Batman (either Bruce or certainly Dick) gets, on any kind of regular basis.

[Black Atom]

So, leaning up against the wall, and just talking and joking with Ferdinand is a "drag?" Why?

The interactions with Ferdinand were probably my favorites (at least until he got all angsty). I just think WW should have lots of characters/moments like that.


Hell, that's a lot more "downtime" than Batman (either Bruce or certainly Dick) gets, on any kind of regular basis.

Yes, but Batman is supposed to be obsessive and anti-social.

[AaronJ]

The interactions with Ferdinand were probably my favorites (at least until he got all angsty). I just think WW should have lots of characters/moments like that.

See, I want to see Wonder Woman being a heroine. I don't really care if she and Etta bond over a chick-flick.


Yes, but Batman is supposed to be obsessive and anti-social.

And Batman is the most popular DC hero, by far. Hmm.

[Constantine Drakon]

Some have suggested the re-establishment of The Embassy to serve that end, but I find issues there that I've discussed in other threads. Generally, the sort of setting I'm describing should be a place where we get to see WW enjoying "down time" and interacting with friends. The Embassy does not provide this, since WW's role there is very serious.

Well, see, here's the thing.

Greg Rucka, bless that brilliant wonderful man, can be kinda... starchy. Stiff, even. He's not someone you turn to and say "now I want you to make this setting seem warm and fun." Fantastic world-builder, not great at putting in humor, can do tenderness but probably has to remind himself to do it.

I have no doubt in my mind that in the hands of Gail Simone, Greg Pak, Devin Grayson, Chuck Dixon, Dwayne McDuffie or any number of other writers the Embassy would have a FAR more "homey" feel. People live there, after all.

Gail would have been the ideal person to do that.

What I've always said was that the Embassy was a brilliant addition, but it needed someone to breathe some life into it. It'd probably be darn hard to find the posts now, but back when we were discussing "who should take over the book after Piccoult," when people were suggesting Gail, I repeatedly said things like "Gail would be an amazing Wonder Woman writer, and I want her around when we've got a good status quo going, to make good settings and cast members into GREAT settings and cast members. It'd be a stupid waste to have her as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess."

So, of course, she got got the job as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess.

This is Wonder Woman, stupid wastes are our business!

[Black Atom]

See, I want to see Wonder Woman being a heroine. I don't really care if she and Etta bond over a chick-flick.

Me, too, probably. But she can't be punching stuff all the time. And a good supporting cast helps round out the character when they aren't doing actiony stuff.


And Batman is the most popular DC hero, by far. Hmm.

Despite that, Batman's supporting characters are quite well-known and beloved, though. For a supposed loner, he's amassed quite a supporting cast.

[AaronJ]

Me, too, probably. But she can't be punching stuff all the time. And a good supporting cast helps round out the character when they aren't doing actiony stuff.

Agreed. But I think that your assumptions about Rucka's run are wrong.


Despite that, Batman's supporting characters are quite well-known and beloved, though. For a supposed loner, he's amassed quite a supporting cast.

Agreed, again. But Bats really doesn't get along with those people.

[Black Atom]

Well, see, here's the thing.

Greg Rucka, bless that brilliant wonderful man, can be kinda... starchy. Stiff, even. He's not someone you turn to and say "now I want you to make this setting seem warm and fun." Fantastic world-builder, not great at putting in humor, can do tenderness but probably has to remind himself to do it.

I have no doubt in my mind that in the hands of Gail Simone, Greg Pak, Devin Grayson, Chuck Dixon, Dwayne McDuffie or any number of other writers the Embassy would have a FAR more "homey" feel. People live there, after all.

Gail would have been the ideal person to do that.

What I've always said was that the Embassy was a brilliant addition, but it needed someone to breathe some life into it. It'd probably be darn hard to find the posts now, but back when we were discussing "who should take over the book after Piccoult," when people were suggesting Gail, I repeatedly said things like "Gail would be an amazing Wonder Woman writer, and I want her around when we've got a good status quo going, to make good settings and cast members into GREAT settings and cast members. It'd be a stupid waste to have her as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess."

So, of course, she got got the job as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess.

This is Wonder Woman, stupid wastes are our business!

Admittedly, quite a lot of my prejudice against the Embassy comes from Rucka's depiction of it and the related characters. I've always respected Rucka's writing, although I find it hard to enjoy as purely "fun".

But I think you're right. I'd be open to the return of the Embassy if it were handled a bit more warmly. It doesn't resolve all my hang-ups, but I think it could work.

[Black Atom]

Agreed. But I think that your assumptions about Rucka's run are wrong.

Which assumptions?


Agreed, again. But Bats really doesn't get along with those people.

Character interaction isn't just about characters making nicey-nice. Folks get a kick about watching Bruce play the resident grumpy gus. It's a bit like House, I guess. Sometimes it's more fun when the characters don't get along.

[Wondergrrrl]

The obvious solution would be to bring back Sensation Comics as a second Wonder Woman title, with a lead feature by Gail and a backup featuring supporting cast members and villains written by the creators most closely associated with them.

The return of Sensation Comics has been a longtime dream for me. That said, I'd like to see the work of creators other than Gail, whose run has certainly had interesting elements. I think Phil, George-now that would be a dream!-Jill Thompson, and Neil Gaiman would make for an interesting start to the series, and I'd love to see their take on the characters. Nicola and Jill on pencils as well would be utter bliss. Any one of these "name" creators would be great for the lead-in to each issue. If only Rucka felt like wading into the DC pool once more. Sigh.

[Wondergrrrl]

Well, see, here's the thing.

Greg Rucka, bless that brilliant wonderful man, can be kinda... starchy. Stiff, even. He's not someone you turn to and say "now I want you to make this setting seem warm and fun." Fantastic world-builder, not great at putting in humor, can do tenderness but probably has to remind himself to do it.

I have no doubt in my mind that in the hands of Gail Simone, Greg Pak, Devin Grayson, Chuck Dixon, Dwayne McDuffie or any number of other writers the Embassy would have a FAR more "homey" feel. People live there, after all.

Gail would have been the ideal person to do that.

What I've always said was that the Embassy was a brilliant addition, but it needed someone to breathe some life into it. It'd probably be darn hard to find the posts now, but back when we were discussing "who should take over the book after Piccoult," when people were suggesting Gail, I repeatedly said things like "Gail would be an amazing Wonder Woman writer, and I want her around when we've got a good status quo going, to make good settings and cast members into GREAT settings and cast members. It'd be a stupid waste to have her as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess."

So, of course, she got got the job as the person stuck cleaning up Heinberg/Piccoult/Pfieffer's mess.

This is Wonder Woman, stupid wastes are our business!

For better or worse, Gail has had her chance. Time to see what the new team can bring to the book. Same thing with Sensation. By the way, the Embassy most likely felt that way, as Rucka wrote it as close to what a real embassy would have been like had Diana inhabited it. Anything less would have simply felt fake.

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

I suspect the plan is to bring back the DoMA as Diana's "home base," with Steve as the boss, Etta as the galpal, and JMS maybe bringing in some new characters as co-workers.

[Wondergrrrl]

I suspect the plan is to bring back the DoMA as Diana's "home base," with Steve as the boss, Etta as the galpal, and JMS maybe bringing in some new characters as co-workers.

Can't we please lose the DOMA? It's so boring and predictable. I know some like it, but it's left nothing but a sour taste in my mouth. Same with the silly Diana Prince identity. Remember Phil's "Day In The Life" issue? Diana was shown attired as she wished throughout a very busy day in what must have been a busy week for her. At no point did she require a secret identity, and people seemed to know who she was wherever she went. I miss that openness and respect for the intelligence of readers.

[Black Atom]

I suspect the plan is to bring back the DoMA as Diana's "home base," with Steve as the boss, Etta as the galpal, and JMS maybe bringing in some new characters as co-workers.

I don't love the DoMA, but anything can be made to work, I guess.

[ChrisDonaghy]

I don't love the DoMA, but anything can be made to work, I guess.

That's more of the spirit! We can't just "lose" something -- that's the sort of thing we've complained too often happens too often. The whole point of this thread isn't to just set up another place to kvetch about what we want to bring back vs. what we want to lose -- it's more to find a way to make everything work out in a constructive, beneficial and, most of all, FUN way.

I keep coming back to the gorillas -- but they're a great example. Gail says she never intended for them to be permanent -- so what would be a way to say goodbye to them that would show Diana and them at their best?

Or DoMA-- someone as clever as you, BA must have an idea or twelve lurking around as to how to make this situation useful -- let's hear them!

[Black Atom]

That's more of the spirit! We can't just "lose" something -- that's the sort of thing we've complained too often happens too often. The whole point of this thread isn't to just set up another place to kvetch about what we want to bring back vs. what we want to lose -- it's more to find a way to make everything work out in a constructive, beneficial and, most of all, FUN way.

I keep coming back to the gorillas -- but they're a great example. Gail says she never intended for them to be permanent -- so what would be a way to say goodbye to them that would show Diana and them at their best?

Or DoMA-- someone as clever as you, BA must have an idea or twelve lurking around as to how to make this situation useful -- let's hear them!

Ha!

You're giving me too much credit, but the DoMA does provide a setting where Diana can regularly interact with a supporting cast, so it can't be all bad. It just needs someone to breathe life into it.

[Free-Man]

That's more of the spirit! We can't just "lose" something -- that's the sort of thing we've complained too often happens too often. The whole point of this thread isn't to just set up another place to kvetch about what we want to bring back vs. what we want to lose -- it's more to find a way to make everything work out in a constructive, beneficial and, most of all, FUN way.

I keep coming back to the gorillas -- but they're a great example. Gail says she never intended for them to be permanent -- so what would be a way to say goodbye to them that would show Diana and them at their best?

Or DoMA-- someone as clever as you, BA must have an idea or twelve lurking around as to how to make this situation useful -- let's hear them!

Diana skins them and then gives the fur to the homeless?

As for the DMA, I'd love if Diana found out that there was some massive unconstitutional sh*t going on without the President or the UN being aware. She takes down all the higher-ups involved in the conspiracy, and in the wake of this, the DMA is dissolved.

Thus, we get rid of that awful status quo, but have Diana leave the organization in a dignified way.

[Mark_S]

I'd like to see the gorilla's as a part of the DOMA, a special trouble shooting team lead by Diana as Wonder Woman and then I'd like to see them deal with the federal government beurocracy and some of the attitudes they'd meet along the way.

Mark_S

[Constantine Drakon]

That's more of the spirit! We can't just "lose" something


Sure we can! Why, with a can-do attitude, some hope, and a bit of luck, we can lose ALL KINDs of horrible ideas!

[Wondergrrrl]

I keep coming back to the gorillas -- but they're a great example. Gail says she never intended for them to be permanent -- so what would be a way to say goodbye to them that would show Diana and them at their best?

As Gail is gone, it really shouldn't matter what the original intent was. I say keep them someplace safe from DeDiDio so that they can pop up later. Even if JMS doesn't fancy them, we'll get a writer who might use them again. It really was sweet having them crash at Diana's flat. :)

[Wondergrrrl]

Diana skins them and then gives the fur to the homeless?

As for the DMA, I'd love if Diana found out that there was some massive unconstitutional sh*t going on without the President or the UN being aware. She takes down all the higher-ups involved in the conspiracy, and in the wake of this, the DMA is dissolved.

Thus, we get rid of that awful status quo, but have Diana leave the organization in a dignified way.

Free-Man, I actually like this idea quite a lot! DOMA was a bad idea to start with, and you've just given us a recipe for some fool-proof lemonade!