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View Full Version : is DC to backwards thinking



mathew101281
04-17-2010, 12:08 PM
this has me thinking
http://blog.newsarama.com/2010/04/16/dc-hopes-to-push-back-against-trade-waiting-will-it-work/#comments

between the constant reverting of characters back to their silver age roots, and the constant underlying theme of "older is better" that permeates DC do you think that DC is way to focused on what has gone before?

daveageallen
04-17-2010, 12:16 PM
dc and marvel both need to start working on new ideas rather than using the same 10 characters from the 40's or 60's over and over again.

RockinRobin182
04-17-2010, 12:39 PM
There is no backwards thinking. These are their characters, they make the money, and they please a hefty majority of the fans. If a new character is introduced, and works well, then the part they play becomes larger in the grand scheme. If they don't, they are pushed to the sidelines. DC has a rich history of plenty interesting characters, and I say use them. Hal Jordan only died 10 years before he was resurrected. Ronnie Raymond? What, 5-6? It's not like the characters were dead and gone for millennia. Barry Allen's a more solid argument, but he's a good character with plenty more stories to tell, so why shouldn't they be?

Apathy Lad
04-17-2010, 03:05 PM
Yes. A million times, yes. Barry Allen is just the worst example.

hb695
04-17-2010, 09:01 PM
this has me thinking
http://blog.newsarama.com/2010/04/16/dc-hopes-to-push-back-against-trade-waiting-will-it-work/#comments

between the constant reverting of characters back to their silver age roots, and the constant underlying theme of "older is better" that permeates DC do you think that DC is way to focused on what has gone before?

An obvious YES! It's been the case since Didio first became Executive Editor.

Quinnhop
04-17-2010, 09:20 PM
No.

DC is taking what worked of the Silver Age (the atmosphere) and combining it with the psychological complexity of the Dark Age. The result?

The Platinum Age

Marvel's "Heroic Age" is the exact same thing, just...three years late.

It's a smart move. Comic ages mimic cultural shifts. With Barack Obama as president and "hope" returned to the American vocabulary, it makes perfect sense that we would try to get away from the dark and dusty "Dark Age" that began with Ronal Reagan, and, ultimately, ended with Bush.

I, for one, couldn't be happier.

This is the potential of comics coming to fruition.

HeroxMatt2.0
04-17-2010, 09:43 PM
No.

DC is taking what worked of the Silver Age (the atmosphere) and combining it with the psychological complexity of the Dark Age. The result?

The Platinum Age

Marvel's "Heroic Age" is the exact same thing, just...three years late.

It's a smart move. Comic ages mimic cultural shifts. With Barack Obama as president and "hope" returned to the American vocabulary, it makes perfect sense that we would try to get away from the dark and dusty "Dark Age" that began with Ronal Reagan, and, ultimately, ended with Bush.

I, for one, couldn't be happier.

This is the potential of comics coming to fruition.

That's an interesting theory, and not being American, I suppose I don't fully understand it - but in terms of context I get what you're saying. It could definitely be related - the comic ages are for sure related to cultural shifts, but associating them with Presidents and campaigns is something I've never thought of.

To be honest, I quite like the mix between the old and the new, and would really like to see how it works out. being a new reader, having missed all of the Silver Age, and having only read of the Dark Age for a couple of years, mixing both is an interesting prospect to me.

Munkiman
04-17-2010, 09:46 PM
The thing people don't notice is that new characters are introduced constantly. It's worked the same way in every era - there are always hundreds of old characters from the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Bronze Age, the Dark Age, that just didn't catch on. The comics companies throw ideas against the wall and only the few really good ones stick. That's how it works.

The last new character that's really stuck, I think, is Deadpool over at Marvel. It's hard to make characters with really strong appeal and staying power. It's all about filling a niche - a character won't be as popular if they try to fill a role already filled by a more established, popular character.

RockinRobin182
04-17-2010, 09:51 PM
No.

DC is taking what worked of the Silver Age (the atmosphere) and combining it with the psychological complexity of the Dark Age. The result?

The Platinum Age

Marvel's "Heroic Age" is the exact same thing, just...three years late.

It's a smart move. Comic ages mimic cultural shifts. With Barack Obama as president and "hope" returned to the American vocabulary, it makes perfect sense that we would try to get away from the dark and dusty "Dark Age" that began with Ronal Reagan, and, ultimately, ended with Bush.

I, for one, couldn't be happier.

This is the potential of comics coming to fruition.

I agree, but disagree about the politics. Because really, that just depends on where you stand. I think it's too subjective to give as a reason. But, that's just me.

Munkiman
04-17-2010, 09:53 PM
I didn't know Ronald Reagan wrote Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns.

Buried Alien
04-17-2010, 09:57 PM
It depends on how you view the universe.

If you were raised in the West, you have been conditioned to believe that time is linear...moving in a single, inexorable direction forward.

Other cultures, however, view time as a great circle. The farther away you move from a point of origin, the closer you are to returning to it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Philosopher Alive!)

Apathetic-piggy
04-17-2010, 09:57 PM
I didn't know Ronald Reagan wrote Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns.

Don't forget about his involvement with Star Wars! He's a nerd legend!

HeroxMatt2.0
04-17-2010, 10:11 PM
Can I blame him for Phantom Menace? :D

Ziza9
04-17-2010, 10:18 PM
this has me thinking
http://blog.newsarama.com/2010/04/16/dc-hopes-to-push-back-against-trade-waiting-will-it-work/#comments

between the constant reverting of characters back to their silver age roots, and the constant underlying theme of "older is better" that permeates DC do you think that DC is way to focused on what has gone before?

If it takes place in well written story, then who cares what age or set of roots they are supposedly reverted back to? I think the story is key and the story on the page are more important.

Apathetic-piggy
04-17-2010, 10:28 PM
Can I blame him for Phantom Menace? :D

No, you blame Satan for that. Or God, for allowing Satan to get away with it.

NathanIrwin
04-18-2010, 12:07 AM
Currently, DC's best-selling solo titles all feature characters created in the 1940s and/or 60s. The company should cancel all of these books and publish more Red Robin and Batgirl (37,000 and 31,000 copies, respectively, in March) ?

You're entitled to your opinions about the DC's creative direction, of course, but please bear in mind that we are talking about a profit-seeking entity, and your prescription is a terrible business strategy.

HeroxMatt2.0
04-18-2010, 12:16 AM
Can I blame him for Phantom Menace? :D


No, you blame Satan for that. Or God, for allowing Satan to get away with it.

Sounds like a plan. I've gotten a little sick of blaming everyone else.

HeroxMatt2.0
04-18-2010, 12:18 AM
Currently, DC's best-selling solo titles all feature characters created in the 1940s and/or 60s. The company should cancel all of these books and publish more Red Robin and Batgirl (37,000 and 31,000 copies, respectively, in March) ?

You're entitled to your opinions about the DC's creative direction, of course, but please bear in mind that we are talking about a profit-seeking entity, and your prescription is a terrible business strategy.

This is true, I mean look at how Green Lantern is doing, and Batman and Robin is constantly in the top 10. But why do you say DC should publish more Red Robin and Bagirl? I mean, it seems to contrast you saying they want to make money, when selling RR and Batgirl probably WON'T sell as well if you cancel "all these books" which I guess you mean the best sellers...?

Hawk_fan
04-18-2010, 12:22 AM
There is no backwards thinking. These are their characters, they make the money, and they please a hefty majority of the fans. If a new character is introduced, and works well, then the part they play becomes larger in the grand scheme. If they don't, they are pushed to the sidelines. DC has a rich history of plenty interesting characters, and I say use them. Hal Jordan only died 10 years before he was resurrected. Ronnie Raymond? What, 5-6? It's not like the characters were dead and gone for millennia. Barry Allen's a more solid argument, but he's a good character with plenty more stories to tell, so why shouldn't they be?Well said.
There's no reason new fans can't love the silver age characters, especially if the stories told are great. I'm still waiting for the return of Katar Hol /Hawkman. Also, as an older fan there are some new characters that I actually like and hope DC gives them more focus (#1 among them being Skyrocket).

AugustEngine
04-18-2010, 12:31 AM
Currently, DC's best-selling solo titles all feature characters created in the 1940s and/or 60s. The company should cancel all of these books and publish more Red Robin and Batgirl (37,000 and 31,000 copies, respectively, in March) ?

That's a crap argument. Green Lantern was dead in the water before Geoff Johns got his hands on it and now it's the hottest thing going. The same could easily apply for a Red Robin or a Batgirl.

HeroxMatt2.0
04-18-2010, 02:25 AM
That's a crap argument. Green Lantern was dead in the water before Geoff Johns got his hands on it and now it's the hottest thing going. The same could easily apply for a Red Robin or a Batgirl.

I still don't get what the poster was saying in that post..?

Hullababy
04-18-2010, 04:04 AM
There is no backwards thinking. These are their characters, they make the money, and they please a hefty majority of the fans. If a new character is introduced, and works well, then the part they play becomes larger in the grand scheme. If they don't, they are pushed to the sidelines. DC has a rich history of plenty interesting characters, and I say use them. Hal Jordan only died 10 years before he was resurrected. Ronnie Raymond? What, 5-6? It's not like the characters were dead and gone for millennia. Barry Allen's a more solid argument, but he's a good character with plenty more stories to tell, so why shouldn't they be?

This.

Just because a character was created in a certain era does not mean they cannot be enjoyed by audiences of a newer era. Newer characters can always be introduced but it should not be coming at the expense of these older established characters.

Apathy Lad
04-18-2010, 04:17 AM
That's a crap argument. Green Lantern was dead in the water before Geoff Johns got his hands on it and now it's the hottest thing going. The same could easily apply for a Red Robin or a Batgirl.

One should point out that Kyle held his book for 9 years. can anyone elaborate on this? Because it seems like jumping the gun to me that a dip in sales caused them to undue the death of Hal.

Hullababy
04-18-2010, 04:41 AM
One should point out that Kyle held his book for 9 years. can anyone elaborate on this? Because it seems like jumping the gun to me that a dip in sales caused them to undue the death of Hal.

From what I know, Kyle did hold the title for nine years but the sales figures during his run, although pretty good in the beginning, settled down at the same range as the early issues of GL volume 3. GL volume 3 till issue 25 is pretty good. After that, the stories are crap. You can't blame Hal for that. The same can happen with any character. Well my point is all the 4 earth GLs be it Hal or Kyle need good writers to make them work.

jgrifo10
04-18-2010, 05:32 AM
I think, sometimes is good to get back to the Silver Age roots. For example, when I started reading Superman four years ago, I began reading the Man of Steel and it surprised me when I only saw Green Kryptonite since I knew it were also Red, Blue and Gold. Also it's good when you get back the Silver version of some characters like Bizarro or Supergirl.

Quinnhop
04-18-2010, 05:37 AM
I didn't know Ronald Reagan wrote Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns.

He didn't, but his politics and the Cold War escalating to the point where many people really did feel "the end is nigh" made more an environment in which writers like Alan Moore and Frank Miller had the most socially relevant things to say.


Can I blame him for Phantom Menace? :D

Yes.


No, you blame Satan for that.

lol Like there's a difference.

tim_cbr
04-18-2010, 07:46 AM
The philosophical arguments posted here are interesting.

But Silver age classic, or circular time, or Obama-aura, or not...

I could have lived without Hawkwoman's re-association with Egypt.
Shayera is one of my favorite characters. 1930s Egyptology just isn't "Da Thang" that it once was........ I liked how JLU animate series portrayed Carter Hall as a bit of a nut.

Munkiman
04-18-2010, 08:20 AM
Currently, DC's best-selling solo titles all feature characters created in the 1940s and/or 60s. The company should cancel all of these books and publish more Red Robin and Batgirl (37,000 and 31,000 copies, respectively, in March) ?

You're entitled to your opinions about the DC's creative direction, of course, but please bear in mind that we are talking about a profit-seeking entity, and your prescription is a terrible business strategy.

Guys, note the question mark. He's pretty obviously saying that the company should do what sells more.


One should point out that Kyle held his book for 9 years. can anyone elaborate on this? Because it seems like jumping the gun to me that a dip in sales caused them to undue the death of Hal.

Kyle held one book, though. Since Rebirth, the Green Lantern mythos has held two to three titles (soon to be three again) and a major DCU event.