Times it's hard to accept things as coincidence in comicdom

[Ziggy Stardust]

I remember shaking my head when Marvel rushed to put out Identity Disk when Identity Crisis was out.

And now, after years of darkness, we're getting Brightest Day and Heroic Age at the same time?

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Morrison revealed Batman was stuck in time. Months later, OH SHIT CAP was too!!

[Ziggy Stardust]

Batman's former sidekick, Jason Todd, is back from the dead.

What's that you say? SO is Bucky?

Getouttaheeyah.

[DarkKnghtJared]

I think the most recent "coincidence" was that after Blackest Night, their zombie horror/action event, was starting to rev up, Marvel decided to announce their latest X-event...Necrosha, their zombie horror/action event.

[bert]

You'll get protests, that "it takes months and months to plan these things! they can't be copies"

but yeah.

particularly Necrosha coming out after Blackest Night is such a big hit (and the Hypocrisy of Marvel questioning if it's a hit, and then turning around and doing a similar event w/ Necrosha?. . . . sheesh ).

[Ziggy Stardust]

The "months and months" argument loses steam when some of these things at least appear to be written in a week-end's time based on story and dialogue.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Morrison revealed Batman was stuck in time. Months later, OH SHIT CAP was too!!

Well... The time travel element in Cap's death was brought up before his death.

Personally, I think Bru and Grant are going two entirely separate directions with their time travel.

Cap was going Slaughterhouse 5

Batman is literally time traveling

[Rev. Calibos]

When I heard about the upcoming Spider-Man/Wolverine series the first thing I thought of was 'Superman/Batman'.

[Black Atom]

I remember shaking my head when Marvel rushed to put out Identity Disk when Identity Crisis was out.

And now, after years of darkness, we're getting Brightest Day and Heroic Age at the same time?

I want to believe both companies have finally listened to all the folks who've been saying they'd like to see their heroes behave like actual heroes.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I want to believe both companies have finally listened to all the folks who've been saying they'd like to see their heroes behave like actual heroes.

As would I..... but, given past events, it seems likely one company decided to do this and the other decided to go along for the ride.

[CutterMike]

Hadn't Marvel Zombies been out for some months before Blackest Night?

[Free-Man]

As would I..... but, given past events, it seems likely one company decided to do this and the other decided to go along for the ride.

Wasn't Heroic Age announced before Brightest Day?

[Tobias March]

It's like when there were three Columbus movies, two Robin Hood movies and two animated bug movies.

[AllisterH]

Hadn't Marvel Zombies been out for some months before Blackest Night?

That would be YEARS in fact.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wasn't Heroic Age announced before Brightest Day?

I can no longer keep track of which MEGA ULTRA CANNOT BE MISSED AND THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN EPIC EVENT came before which.

[Free-Man]

I can no longer keep track of which MEGA ULTRA CANNOT BE MISSED AND THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN EPIC EVENT came before which.

Either way given that they both involved big reshufflings with their books and were announced close together, I'm not sure if one is ripping off the other.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Either way given that they both involved big reshufflings with their books and were announced close together, I'm not sure if one is ripping off the other.

Maybe they're both ripping each other off at the same time.

[Black Atom]

It's like when there were three Columbus movies, two Robin Hood movies and two animated bug movies.

And two asteroid movies, two volcano movies and two alien invasion movies.

What's funny about those is that, for each case, one take was an over-the-top action movie, while the other was a more thoughtful, cerebral take.

[boyhangover]

And two asteroid movies, two volcano movies and two alien invasion movies.

What's funny about those is that, for each case, one take was an over-the-top action movie, while the other was a more thoughtful, cerebral take.

What were the two Volcano Movies and Alien Invasion movies?

At least with the Asteroid movie it was obvious which was the cerebral. Armageddon.

[4thHorseman]

What were the two Volcano Movies

Volcano and Dante's Peak I believe.

Alien Invasion movies? Which year are we talking about here?:tongue:

[4thHorseman]

Oh, and did anyone else get a Lex Luthor as President vibe with the Dark Reign/Norman Osborn angle?

[Free-Man]

Oh, and did anyone else get a Lex Luthor as President vibe with the Dark Reign/Norman Osborn angle?

Hell yes. The onl difference seems to be that this had much much much broader implications than President Lex had.

[FanboyStranger]

Well... The time travel element in Cap's death was brought up before his death.

Personally, I think Bru and Grant are going two entirely separate directions with their time travel.

Cap was going Slaughterhouse 5

Batman is literally time traveling

That's actually a great way to look at it. I was just reading my Death of Captain America omnibus, and Arnim Zola, Dr. Fautus, and the Red Skull were playing around with Dr. Doom's time apparatus as early as Cap 26. Superficially, Morrison's Batman and Bru's Cap seem alike, but it's two very different uses of time travel.

[DarkKnghtJared]

When I heard about the upcoming Spider-Man/Wolverine series the first thing I thought of was 'Superman/Batman'.

Now that you mention it...hopefully they bicker like an old married couple just as well as Clark and Bruce do. :biggrin:


Hell yes. The onl difference seems to be that this had much much much broader implications than President Lex had.

Yeah--the big difference, from what I recall, was that Lex actually wasn't really a bad President. He only really started to lose it during Superman/Batman when all he refused Superman's help to destroy the asteroid when none of his options worked. After that he snapped pretty quickly.

[Puppetmaker Grae]

Volcano and Dante's Peak I believe.

Alien Invasion movies? Which year are we talking about here?:tongue:

Mars Attacks & Independance Day?

[Black Atom]

Volcano and Dante's Peak I believe.

Alien Invasion movies? Which year are we talking about here?:tongue:

1996.

I was thinking of The Arrival, which came out a couple months before Independence Day. In it, Charlie Sheen follows a conspiracy that leads him to discover that backwards legged aliens have infiltrated Earth and are responsible for global warming. It was sort of a suspense thriller.

I guess you could Mars Attacks!, but it almost seemed like a parody of Independence Day.

[Corrina]

Morrison revealed Batman was stuck in time. Months later, OH SHIT CAP was too!!

I think you have it backwards. Cap's death and resurrection was set up way back before Batman died. Brubaker had the plan from when Sharon shot him.

[boyhangover]

The Arrival was lame.

[Black Atom]

The CG animated movies were notoriously bad about this, particularly between Disney/Pixar and Dreamworks.

1998 - The aforemention A Bug's Life and Antz
2003/2004 - Finding Nemo and Shark Tale
2006/2007 - Ratatouille and Flushed Away

Disney may actually be the worst offender here, releasing The Wild in 2006, a story about spoiled zoo animals (including a lion and giraffe) that escape from a New York zoo and end up in Africa after Dreamwork's Madagascar in 2005.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The CG animated movies were notoriously bad about this, particularly between Disney/Pixar and Dreamworks.

1998 - The aforemention A Bug's Life and Antz
2003/2004 - Finding Nemo and Shark Tale
2006/2007 - Ratatouille and Flushed Away

Disney may actually be the worst offender here, releasing The Wild in 2006, a story about spoiled zoo animals (including a lion and giraffe) that escape from a New York zoo and end up in Africa after Dreamwork's Madagascar in 2005.

The Wild was the only one where Disney put out the inferior product in those cases, IMO.

Wonder if it's because it was not a joint Disney/Pixar flick?

[Black Atom]

The Wild was the only one where Disney put out the inferior product in those cases, IMO.

Wonder if it's because it was not a joint Disney/Pixar flick?

Yeah. I think it was their first non-Pixar CG movie.

[PatrickG]

I think you have it backwards. Cap's death and resurrection was set up way back before Batman died. Brubaker had the plan from when Sharon shot him.

There are clues about Bruce being stuck in time back in Morrison's early issues.

[carabas]

There are clues about Bruce being stuck in time back in Morrison's early issues.Which ones?
I thought that time-travelling Bruce was only conceived of after DiDio forced Morriosn to put his 'death' at Darkseid's hand into Final Crisis.

[PatrickG]

Which ones?
I thought that time-travelling Bruce was only conceived of after DiDio forced Morriosn to put his 'death' at Darkseid's hand into Final Crisis.

The paintings with the clues are there before. My understanding is that Didio's biggest involvement with FC was Countdown, which Morrison mostly ignored, and the Barry Allen in FC being the REAL Barry, when Morrison planned it as an alternate reality Barry.

[Magneto X]

Oh, and did anyone else get a Lex Luthor as President vibe with the Dark Reign/Norman Osborn angle?

Osborn was the end of a cautionary tale following Civil War and it demonstrated a nightmare scenario that could happen from federalizing superhumans, really a metaphor for a hysterical and overbroad political and media response to a lack of security (or a terrorist event) that allows for the rise of unquestioned militaristic leaders admired for their resolve and resulting in unchecked tyranny and a trampling of civil rights. So, when you examine it in terms of the issues debated in Civil War, I think Dark Reign is clearly no mere story of a villain comes to power or some kind of copycat hackery.

And really? So now Luthor is the first and only villain in all of fiction to take over government (and/or a military arm of it). And so now any villains who succeed in obtaining powers are copying President Luthor?

Come on now.

[Corrina]

The paintings with the clues are there before. My understanding is that Didio's biggest involvement with FC was Countdown, which Morrison mostly ignored, and the Barry Allen in FC being the REAL Barry, when Morrison planned it as an alternate reality Barry.

I would think that both storylines had were influenced somewhat by the Death of Superman.

Bucky becoming Cap seems to have been the plan from the start of Brubaker's run. I suspect because Brubaker seems to like playing with those noir-style characters.

[The Xenos]

Well... The time travel element in Cap's death was brought up before his death.

Personally, I think Bru and Grant are going two entirely separate directions with their time travel.

Cap was going Slaughterhouse 5

Batman is literally time traveling
That's actually a great way to look at it. I was just reading my Death of Captain America omnibus, and Arnim Zola, Dr. Fautus, and the Red Skull were playing around with Dr. Doom's time apparatus as early as Cap 26. Superficially, Morrison's Batman and Bru's Cap seem alike, but it's two very different uses of time travel. Yeah. Very good point and comparisons. Though it's still pretty wonky that both publishers had their characters become unstuck in time after their dead sidekicks come back and their sidekicks take over for them while they're 'dead'. I think both authors did and are doing wonderfully different things with the plots, but they sure are oddly similar concepts.

The CG animated movies were notoriously bad about this, particularly between Disney/Pixar and Dreamworks.

1998 - The aforemention A Bug's Life and Antz
2003/2004 - Finding Nemo and Shark Tale
2006/2007 - Ratatouille and Flushed Away

Disney may actually be the worst offender here, releasing The Wild in 2006, a story about spoiled zoo animals (including a lion and giraffe) that escape from a New York zoo and end up in Africa after Dreamwork's Madagascar in 2005. Ugh. Totally forgot about that Wild movie. Those were some dark times for Disney animation.

[carabas]

The paintings with the clues are there before. My understanding is that Didio's biggest involvement with FC was Countdown, which Morrison mostly ignored, and the Barry Allen in FC being the REAL Barry, when Morrison planned it as an alternate reality Barry.Are their actual clues in the paintings early in his run? Because the actual paintings have been there for many years, at least since Alan Grant's Shadow Of The Bat series in the eighties (or was that nineties?).

[JKCarrier]

The timing is suspicious, but there is precedent in both characters' history for these types of stories. Morrison has said that he was inspired by all those crazy Batman stories of the '50s, which included a lot of time travel (http://nothingbutbatman.blogspot.com/2009/12/batmans-travels-through-time.html). I haven't read the Captain America stuff, but it sounds like it might be an homage to Kirby's Bicentennial Battles (http://marvel.wikia.com/Comics:Captain_America%27s_Bicentennial_Battles_Vo l_1_1) book, where Cap was transported into different eras of American history.

[jhota]

And really? So now Luthor is the first and only villain in all of fiction to take over government (and/or a military arm of it). And so now any villains who succeed in obtaining powers are copying President Luthor?

well, we all know Luthor was just copying President Doom.

[KevinTBrown]

I think you have it backwards. Cap's death and resurrection was set up way back before Batman died. Brubaker had the plan from when Sharon shot him.

When was Final Crisis originally announced? The seeds for the death of Bruce Wayne and "where" he was were in there. IIRC, it was well before Steve Rogers' death.

[omega8932]

Yeah I'd say a lot of what's called out early in this thread isn't really people ripping each other off so much as a coincidence. The Batman/Cap thing is totally and completely unfair to Brubaker. Like people have said, that's been setup for a while. I don't think you can accuse Brubaker's Cap run as being seat of the pants, scripted as he goes. Same with Morrison. Both of those were planned out well in advance. I'd honestly say the same for Necrosha. It seems to me that the plot with Selene was set up fairly early in the book frmo my understanding. The Bucky thing is out and out laughable for the same reasons as the Cap/Batman. Heroic Age/Brightest Day are just responses to readers being tired of the dark/grim/gritty. People have been complaining for a while about that, and Marvel/DC are finally responding. I'm amazed how jaded a lot of comics fans are. I'm not saying there aren't instances of people ripping each other off, I'm just amazed at how little creators are given the benefit of the doubt. I think it's downright insulting to them when accusations like that are made.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait.... you just named off 3 or 4 similar things that just coincidentally have the same base theme and they are all just that, coincidence?

And those who comment on it are jaded?

Seriously?

[omega8932]

Wait.... you just named off 3 or 4 similar things that just coincidentally have the same base theme and they are all just that, coincidence?

And those who comment on it are jaded?

Seriously?

I got the distinct impression people were accusing the authors of plagarism basically. I'm sorry if I interpreted that wrong.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I got the distinct impression people were accusing the authors of plagarism basically. I'm sorry if I interpreted that wrong.

My intent is not to say a story was ripped off, per se.

It's more to say that identical themes or even generic ones often seem to coincide a little too much in commics.