No Batwoman Monthly? J H Williams Isn't Sure

[AJM]

We all noticed the lack of any Batwoman ongoing in the June solicits, and at about 4m 20s into this interview (http://www.ifanboy.com/podcasts/video/iFanboy_-_Episode__155_-_Emerald_City_ComiCon_2010), J H Williams III says he's not even sure it's happening now.

Terrible news.

[DC906270-BIL]

Hopefully, shell still be featuring strongly in Detective Comics. I LOVE this character.

[DC906270-BIL]

OOPS double post

[DC906270-BIL]

oops, triple post

[Global Honored]

WHAT?!!!!????!!!

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so looking forward to the Rucka/JHW Batwoman solo....

[Red_10]

Damn, that's awful news. :frown:

[Ned McDodd]

really sad, but maybe Batwoman will get her own monthly book eventually and this plan isn't cancelled for good. At least i hope she stays on detectives comics.

[Free-Man]

I thought the plan was to keep her in Detective now. Wasn't there a message in the June Solicits for Detective about "And don't worry, Batwoman returns next month!" or something?

[DC906270-BIL]

Forgive me if im wrong, but Rucka/JH Williams on Detective Comics = Rucka/JH Williams on Batwoman. or are there changes afoot for Detective?

[scandalsavage]

I saw this on BC this morning and I am extremely disappointed. My first question is "why?" With DiDio out saying that they want to up the number of books so they can beat Marvel in sales wouldn't this book be at the top of their list? Great creative team, strong reader response, critical acclaim -- why are they investing in characters like Nemesis when they have this property?

The only thing I can think of is that the are turning Detective over to her. I would be okay with that as along as it is her book and it isn't a 6 issues a year thing. Kate Kane is the most interesting new character that DC has cooked up in years. Why wouldn't they want to build a franchise around her?

[chrisgiff]

detective is kicking ass right now. i was really looking foward to the batwoman monthly b/c i'm sure detective will go back to being lame and boring after this is over...

[Free-Man]

So this is the solicit for the June issue:

DETECTIVE COMICS #866
On sale JUNE 23
40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
Written by DENNIS O’NEIL
Art and cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
1:25 “DC 75 Anniversary” Variant cover by WALTER SIMONSON
Continuing the spirit of celebration from BATMAN #700, comics legend Dennis O’Neil’s returns to the Batcave in this stand-alone, 40-page issue! O’Neil spins a tale of the Dick Grayson Batman intertwined with those classic days when Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, patrolled the mean streets of Gotham City!
And come back next month for the return of The Question and Batwoman!

[Brack360]

We know that Rucka and Williams have at least another five issues of their 12-issue Batwoman run. It shouldn't matter whether it's published in Detective Comics or as a separate Batwoman book. If anything, it would make more sense to publish this next story arc in Detective, as Rucka has described it as the third act of a 12-issue arc that began with "Elegy" and "Go." Rucka did not want this third act to be the first story arc in a new Batwoman series.

Although I would like to see a solo Batwoman book, for the time being Batman already has Batman, B&R, SOG, and Confidential, and he doesn't need to star in Detective as well.

[DC906270-BIL]

Yeah, i am happy for Batman to stick to cameo app's in Detective comics for the time being, at least as long as Rucka is on current form with Batwoman.

[AJM]

So this is the solicit for the June issue:

DETECTIVE COMICS #866
On sale JUNE 23
40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
Written by DENNIS O’NEIL
Art and cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
1:25 “DC 75 Anniversary” Variant cover by WALTER SIMONSON
Continuing the spirit of celebration from BATMAN #700, comics legend Dennis O’Neil’s returns to the Batcave in this stand-alone, 40-page issue! O’Neil spins a tale of the Dick Grayson Batman intertwined with those classic days when Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, patrolled the mean streets of Gotham City!
And come back next month for the return of The Question and Batwoman!

I think that means that the Question is the main feature and Batwoman is the back-up, which is what Ruck had planned all along. Then we were supposed to get the last of the Williams / Rucka stuff after that, so maybe that's what will happen... although by then Bruce will be back, so who knows? Maybe if it's finished they could do it as an OGN – i know i'd much prefer it that way anyway.

[AgPhoenix]

I saw this on BC this morning and I am extremely disappointed. My first question is "why?" With DiDio out saying that they want to up the number of books so they can beat Marvel in sales wouldn't this book be at the top of their list? Great creative team, strong reader response, critical acclaim -- why are they investing in characters like Nemesis when they have this property?

The only thing I can think of is that the are turning Detective over to her. I would be okay with that as along as it is her book and it isn't a 6 issues a year thing. Kate Kane is the most interesting new character that DC has cooked up in years. Why wouldn't they want to build a franchise around her?

Isn't Nemesis a Marvel Property, or am I missing something here?

As for this news, if it weren't for her returning to Detective, I would be ready to cut down my monthly DCU intake to just Zatanna, Secret Six, R.E.B.E.L.S., The Warlord, Birds of Prey, and possibly Green Lantern Corps. However, it seems like that will not be the case, so things will stay as they are.

Hopefully next month's solicitations will tell us what's really going on.

[Free-Man]

Isn't Nemesis a Marvel Property, or am I missing something here?

As for this news, if it weren't for her returning to Detective, I would be ready to cut down my monthly DCU intake to just Zatanna, Secret Six, R.E.B.E.L.S., The Warlord, Birds of Prey, and possibly Green Lantern Corps. However, it seems like that will not be the case, so things will stay as they are.

Hopefully next month's solicitations will tell us what's really going on.

I think she's talking about the other Nemesis, he has his own mini.

[DC906270-BIL]

I think that means that the Question is the main feature and Batwoman is the back-up

well, i am ok with that as i am a Question fan too, as long as they devote more time to the story and art as the current Question back up looks and reads just like...a backup story:biggrin:

[AgPhoenix]

I think she's talking about the other Nemesis, he has his own mini.

*goes to check*

Ooops! :redface: It seems like I did misspeak. My mistake, Scandal.

With that said, I am hoping that they do keep Kate (and Renee) in Detective Comics for an indefinite period, if she isn't getting her own title. Bruce Wayne's return, or not, DC has stumbled onto the perfect formula of how to build a new characters stock.

If they would follow this formula for the rest of the line, they could potentially be sitting on a new Golden Age. I would think that the results and the acclaim for those results would be too great to ignore, but we shall see.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

[DonC]

Interesting. I wonder if DC might be looking to go ahead with the book without Williams, who admits in the interview that he's a slow artist. Could they be listening to the fans complaints about late comics?

[Ned McDodd]

Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

but must say, an ongoing batwoman title with this creative team would have had a good chance to succeed imo. Well, it's too bad.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Interesting. I wonder if DC might be looking to go ahead with the book without Williams, who admits in the interview that he's a slow artist. Could they be listening to the fans complaints about late comics?


but must say, an ongoing batwoman title with this creative team would have had a good chance to succeed imo. Well, it's too bad.

At this point, if they lose Williams Batwoman doesn't stand much of a chance of even staying in Tec.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

Wouldn't be the first time DC screwed itself regarding a popular female Bat character.

*cough*

[MTL76]

That's really too bad. I don't care if they keep Batwoman in 'Tec or give her a series of her own but she's a great character.

[Mia]

Interesting. I wonder if DC might be looking to go ahead with the book without Williams, who admits in the interview that he's a slow artist. Could they be listening to the fans complaints about late comics?

In all likelihood the artist realizes that he can't keep a monthly schedule. I am sure that the book will be launched down the road with a new artist. I hope the character gets her own book and the book is given back to Batman.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I hope the character gets her own book and the book is given back to Batman.

I do too. I also liked the idea of Tec becoming an Arkham book, or maybe just have The Question as the main feature in it for a while.

[DC906270-BIL]

or maybe just have The Question as the main feature in it for a while.

yea, with the return of Vic Sage would be excellent:biggrin:

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

yea, with the return of Vic Sage would be excellent:biggrin:

As much as I like Vic, I think Renee should stay as Question.

[DC906270-BIL]

As much as I like Vic, I think Renee should stay as Question.


If they can come up with better stories and art than they have been. I feel Vic Sage has more untapped potential , both visually and stories-wise. At least for the gritty sort of stories i like to read. The 80's series is just begging for an update IMO.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

If they can come up with better stories and art than they have been. I feel Vic Sage has more untapped potential , both visually and stories-wise. At least for the gritty sort of stories i like to read. The 80's series is just begging for an update IMO.

I kind of think that comics are pass that grim and grittiness of the 80's. The emphasis for both Marvel and DC right now is the Silver Age brightness.

[Brother Justin Crowe]

yea, with the return of Vic Sage would be excellent:biggrin:

Oh my, yes. He shouldn't have even died to start with!

[BrightestDay]

So she's getting demoted to a second feature? That's lame.

Batwoman is a great character. I'd like to think they'll keep her in 'Tec now as the main feature, but I don't know if that's very likely.

[AJM]

So she's getting demoted to a second feature? That's lame.

That was announced ages ago though, so it's not exactly a demotion.

Maybe all Williams meant was that the solo book is scrapped and his final issues will appear in Detective as originally planned?

[scandalsavage]

I think she's talking about the other Nemesis, he has his own mini.
Yes, Thomas Tresser. Why? Why?


Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

The probability of the title lasting? The book kept a good part of the 'tec audience. Even if it retained 1/2 of what it averaged per issue while J.H. Williams was the artist it would still be selling better than PowerGirl which, lets face it is going to go even lower with the team change.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Actually, the shift to the second feature hasn't been announced still, and never was. In the first several interviews about the Batwoman/Question run in Detective Comics Greg Rucka did mention a desire to shift Renee into the lead for a time to give J.H. breathing room. This was before Jock was announced as a fill in artist, before Batwoman left the main feature for three months, and plans have changed extensively since then, with Greg and J.H. indicating a move into a monthly, and now that seems to be up in the air as well. In the most recent interviews with Greg that asked about the Question and Batwoman switching places in terms of lead and co-features he had indicated that it probably wasn't going to happen. While the blurb in the back of Detective's solicits could mean that Renee is in the lead feature with Kate in the back-up, it could also mean Kate is guest-starring in Renee's story, or that Kate is back in the main story.

[DKR]

Crap. Guess this means she's back in Detective.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

The probability of the title lasting? The book kept a good part of the 'tec audience. Even if it retained 1/2 of what it averaged per issue while J.H. Williams was the artist it would still be selling better than PowerGirl which, lets face it is going to go even lower with the team change.

There are completionists who buy it for completionist's sake. There are people who buy it for the art. These are factors, whether you like it or not. DC probably thought about these.

[Doc Goblin]

You know, I'd hate to see Batwoman get as badly mishandled and dropped as Spider-Woman did by Marvel. But it's starting to look that way. About all that's left is for Rucka or DC to decide that there's no point in further Batwoman stories if Williams can't illustrate them.

If Batwoman stays on Detective Comics instead of getting her own series, it's no big deal. I'm loving the stories, but I think a solo title would have trouble lasting long. I'd be more than happy to see the Batwoman/Question status quo go on indefinitely. If DC wants Batwoman to succeed in her own title, then they need to be real careful not to make her too dependent on Williams' art or it's just going to hurt the character in the long run.

[Quinnhop]

So frustrating.

If J.H. Williams needs help (another team to alternate arcs with), then they should chose Cameron Stewart. This is his most recent rendering of Kate:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ew7U77z42eo/S6rMYrAsr1I/AAAAAAAAAe4/pG8cb_o60Kw/s1600/BATWOMAN.jpg

Gorgeous.

[FHIZ]

Yeah I saw that on his blog, he's really good at drawing batwoman. She looked great in Blackest Knight as well.

All I can say though, is if (and seems to be now a question of "when") the Question becomes the main feature in Detective Comics, I'm dropping. I feel it should remain a bat title, and the question doesn't scream Bat-family.

[DonC]

Renee won't headline 'Tec long. I'd wager three or four issues at the most. DC paid an expensive price with Nightwing & Flamebird and Mon-El in the Superman titles.

[Teal_Lantern]

Damn, I was looking forward to having Batwoman without the crappy cofeature.

[DarkKnghtJared]

I'm hoping that this isn't them completely dropping Kate, that maybe she stays in Detective, maybe with Williams switching up art duties with another artist.

[Free-Man]

Renee won't headline 'Tec long. I'd wager three or four issues at the most. DC paid an expensive price with Nightwing & Flamebird and Mon-El in the Superman titles.

They made it very clear when they first announced it a while back that Question would only be headlinging for about one story arc. The plan was supposed to be filler issues and then the switch to the Question for a few issues, and then back to Batwoman.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

So frustrating.

If J.H. Williams needs help (another team to alternate arcs with), then they should chose Cameron Stewart. This is his most recent rendering of Kate:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ew7U77z42eo/S6rMYrAsr1I/AAAAAAAAAe4/pG8cb_o60Kw/s1600/BATWOMAN.jpg

Gorgeous.

Fully agreed, and he seems to draw fast as well.

[Free-Man]

Fully agreed, and he seems to draw fast as well.

I dunno. I didn't hate Jock's work on the filler issues. But if they needed to give Williams a break, I'd like to see Michael Gaydos do some work on the Batwoman feature.
http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/comics/column508/manhunter31.JPG

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I dunno. I didn't hate Jock's work on the filler issues. But if they needed to give Williams a break, I'd like to see Michael Gaydos do some work on the Batwoman feature.


Isn't Gaydos Marvel exclusive? He just did the latest issue of ASM.

[Captain Jim]

Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

Actually, unless I'm forgetting something, I'm not sure that DC ever did announce a solo Batwoman book. Greg Rucka did, but that's not the same thing. Perhaps his announcement was premature.


Maybe all Williams meant was that the solo book is scrapped and his final issues will appear in Detective as originally planned?

Yeah, his comment was really kind of vague. I can't believe the interviewer didn't follow up on it.


While the blurb in the back of Detective's solicits could mean that Renee is in the lead feature with Kate in the back-up, it could also mean Kate is guest-starring in Renee's story, or that Kate is back in the main story.

Yes, unfortunately, all we have at this point is a very vague blurb at the end of the June solicitation and a very vague comment from Williams. Any number of alternatives are possible, so there's really no way of knowing until we get more information.

[DonC]

I dunno. I didn't hate Jock's work on the filler issues. But if they needed to give Williams a break, I'd like to see Michael Gaydos do some work on the Batwoman feature.
http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/comics/column508/manhunter31.JPG


Uh.. I'm pretty sure Liam Shape did that cover.

[paulski]

So frustrating.

If J.H. Williams needs help (another team to alternate arcs with), then they should chose Cameron Stewart. This is his most recent rendering of Kate:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ew7U77z42eo/S6rMYrAsr1I/AAAAAAAAAe4/pG8cb_o60Kw/s1600/BATWOMAN.jpg

Gorgeous.

Holy shit, that's awesome. :eek:

And as for Batwoman possibly being relegated to the second feature in Detective for a little while... you know what, it wouldn't even bother me. I'd still be happy getting even 10 pages of Batwoman a month. Especially if it meant JH was guaranteed doing the artwork every/most issue and we still had Cully doing great work on the Question.

Nope, wouldn't bother me at all. As the kids say, "it's all good".

[ebullientsoul]

It sounds like Rucka announced an on-going prematurely...That said, I do like the idea of Cameron Stewart or Jock trading off arcs with J.H. (Or all three! JH, then Stewart, then Jock!) if DC had to kick off an ongoing without JH on long term art duties.

Edit: (And even if there's not an ongoing: I'm perfectly willing to buy Detective so long as Batwoman or the Question headlines it...)

[Jacktop]

The sudden "cold feet" on a Batwoman title is fairly obvious.

Why?

Rucka is quoted in BC as saying things have "changed" recently at DC, i.e. corporate overlord Diane Nelson.

Remember what kept Batwoman from getting even a solo tale for four years?

DC corporate.

Why?

Homophobia.

You see, despite critical acclaim, awards and fan response, Batwoman still has "the gay," which makes her a big no no for Warner Bros. now that they actually care about DC again. Don't want those teabaggers protesting DC movies and comic shops and toy stores.

When DC has low-selling comics with virtually zero buzz there's no excuse to prevent a Batwoman comic. Look how many chances they gave Manhunter despite low sales. Batwoman has far more interest.

As someone said above, Power Girl hardly burns up the charts (and will likely sink with Winick). Not to mention, R.E.B.E.L.S. and numerous other books. Brave and the Bold anyone...anyone? Azrael – does anyone even know who Azrael is now?

Especially with Didio boasting that he wants to publish more comics to overtake Marvel in actual sales, there's no reason, zero zip, to not publish Batwoman.

Except one. And anyone with a remote knowledge of history, an understanding of the corporate world and a sense of logic knows what that reason is.

And it's beyond pathetic.

The one progressive character in comics just dissolves, likely into obscurity due to the cowards at DC.

Despite my ove of these characters, it's time to give these up and ture to the indy world where such censorship and fear-based rule isn't prevalent.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Ask Greg Rucka why things have changed. Anything else is conjecture/assumption, and there is no single possible answer, there are countless of possibilities as to why the series will or won't happen.

At this point DC hasn't ever announced an ongoing, Greg Rucka did. Now, his co-creator/artist is saying it may not happen because of scheduling issues. The same weekend that this artist said it may not happen, Ian Sattler and Dan Didio indicated that they felt a Batwoman series was going to happen. Whether J.H. Williams, Rucka, or DC have changed the initial plans has not yet been made clear, and chastising DC for assumed crimes that have not been demonstrably proven by any reasonable measure isn't fair. Let all the facts come out before holding people responsible for assumed offenses.

[Jacktop]

Ask Greg Rucka why things have changed. Anything else is conjecture/assumption, and there is no single possible answer, there are countless of possibilities as to why the series will or won't happen.

At this point DC hasn't ever announced an ongoing, Greg Rucka did. Now, his co-creator/artist is saying it may not happen because of scheduling issues. The same weekend that this artist said it may not happen, Ian Sattler and Dan Didio indicated that they felt a Batwoman series was going to happen. Whether J.H. Williams, Rucka, or DC have changed the initial plans has not yet been made clear, and chastising DC for assumed crimes that have not been demonstrably proven by any reasonable measure isn't fair. Let all the facts come out before holding people responsible for assumed offenses.

The artist never mentioned scheduling issues. That's the true conjecture.

Being an apologist for a corporation that has already displayed great fear of this character carries almost zero weight.

There's no real answer. Why? What's the fear of saying the real reason?

Perhaps because they'd look like raging homophobes, especially after winning the GLAAD award.

The simplest answer is typically the true answer.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

There is an article here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25254) on this site where Ian Sattler, Senior Story Editor, says a Batwoman title is coming "soon," at the same comic convention. I'm not an apologist, and you're veering completely off topic and just throwing baseless and false accusations at me. If DC canceled Batwoman because they are homophobic I will be very upset and offended, but at this point we can't even say they've canceled it. At the convention both Sattler and Didio said it was still happening, complaining about it before it is even a definite is unfair to everyone involved.

[Jacktop]

There is an article here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25254) on this site where Ian Sattler, Senior Story Editor, says a Batwoman title is coming "soon," at the same comic convention. I'm not an apologist, and you're veering completely off topic and just throwing baseless and false accusations at me. If DC canceled Batwoman because they are homophobic I will be very upset and offended, but at this point we can't even say they've canceled it. At the convention both Sattler and Didio said it was still happening, complaining about it before it is even a definite is unfair to everyone involved.

Here's a quote from Rucka, about two weeks old:

"A lot of stuff has changed at DC… There is basically a five-issue story that we have broken in that I could very easily move to script. It was supposed to be the end of the arc in Dective – that was yanked from us and it broke the story. There is a five issue story that follows the origin. I love the character and I’d love to [work on an ongoing series]. I will cheerfully work with Jim [Williams] on anything, it’s one of the best artistic collaborations I’ve ever had. I’m living in wealth with Matthew on one side and JH on the other. For me, my comics are only ever going to be as good as the strength of the collaborations. If Jim and I aren’t doing something with Batwoman, I’m going to look for an opportunity to do something else with him and I believe he feels somewhat similarly.”

No real reason there. Just that stuff has "changed."

And he expresses interest in working with Williams on something other than Batwoman.

The problem doesn't seem to be the writer or the artist: the problem seems to be the character, a character they have professed great affection for and want to continue; a character that has won acclaim and awards.

What could it be about this character that has DC not wanting to pursue it now that things have "changed?" A character with a built-in fan base at a time they have expressed interest in starting new titles to be tops in sales.

Hmmm.

Look, I'm not trying to charge you with any crime. But it's obvious what's going on here. If any other issue was involved, they'd have no problem stating it.

New movies, new animated DVDs, more toys, more video games – there's just no room for "the gay" there. It could infect children!

DC Comics – two steps forward and 10 steps back.

[ebullientsoul]

Look, a troll! Ignore it.

[paulski]

Sure likes rambling on, that's for sure... :eek:

Homophobia my ass (no pun intended). If that was the case, they would never have put the character in the company's ORIGINAL FLAGSHIP BOOK in the first place. Not to mention the lesbian character they just happen to have in the back-up of the same book!!

Seriously, go throw your ridiculous conspiracy theories around somewhere else.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Most likely, DC got cold feet. They probably announced the ongoing in a spur-of-the moment fashion, but then must have looked at the probability of the title lasting.

The same DC that gave The Web and Shield 10 issues, despite having abysmal sales from the beginning? The same DC who still publishes REBELS and Doom Patrol (God Bless them)? The same DC who gave the Great Ten a mini, are publishing a Nemesis series, a Magog series, and put Mon-El in their flagship.

Hah har lol.

No.

[Nova2814.1]

Here's a quote from Rucka, about two weeks old:

"A lot of stuff has changed at DC… There is basically a five-issue story that we have broken in that I could very easily move to script. It was supposed to be the end of the arc in Dective – that was yanked from us and it broke the story. There is a five issue story that follows the origin. I love the character and I’d love to [work on an ongoing series]. I will cheerfully work with Jim [Williams] on anything, it’s one of the best artistic collaborations I’ve ever had. I’m living in wealth with Matthew on one side and JH on the other. For me, my comics are only ever going to be as good as the strength of the collaborations. If Jim and I aren’t doing something with Batwoman, I’m going to look for an opportunity to do something else with him and I believe he feels somewhat similarly.”

No real reason there. Just that stuff has "changed."

Do you have a link to the article this quote appears in?

[dumbstruck]

With DiDio out saying that they want to up the number of books so they can beat Marvel in sales wouldn't this book be at the top of their list?



This is the totally wrong reason to increase your creative output. If beating your competitor in sales is the only reason, then your creativity is going to suffer. And really, there hasn't been a whole lot of creativity at DC to begin with. If beating your competitor in sales is a by-product of a creative surge, than all the better.

[Judge-Dredd]

Haven't read any Detective comics so I can't say I'm disappointed.

[Free-Man]

The same DC that gave The Web and Shield 10 issues, despite having abysmal sales from the beginning? The same DC who still publishes REBELS and Doom Patrol (God Bless them)? The same DC who gave the Great Ten a mini, are publishing a Nemesis series, a Magog series, and put Mon-El in their flagship.

Hah har lol.

No.

Lets not forget the Mighty Crusaders one-shot and Manhunter, which they refuse to let die.
I'm not gonna jump to conclusions of homophobia, but I refuse to believe the company that is putting out Zatanna somehow thinks Batwoman wouldn't sell at least that well.

[Mia]

I saw this on BC this morning and I am extremely disappointed. My first question is "why?" With DiDio out saying that they want to up the number of books so they can beat Marvel in sales wouldn't this book be at the top of their list? cooked up in years.


Why bother to 'up' the number of books? Wouldn't it be wiser to get better writers and artists, Who will persuade people to pick up the books? DC can produce a million more titles. But if the writing and artwork is lousy no one is going to buy the books.

[Free-Man]

This is the totally wrong reason to increase your creative output. If beating your competitor in sales is the only reason, then your creativity is going to suffer. And really, there hasn't been a whole lot of creativity at DC to begin with. If beating your competitor in sales is a by-product of a creative surge, than all the better.

Not only that, but DC hasn't had a lot of success with new books that weren't tied to established franchises. Now Batwoman would probably be a safer bet than something like Inferno or the Monolith, but simply making new books for the sake of having more is a bad strategy that's only gonna end up costing DC cash in the end.

They should simply leave Batwoman in Detective for now.

[Nova2814.1]

Yawn.

Again, you also offer nothing. This is what happens when one lives their life posting thousands of times on a message board and fantasizing they're a Star Wars character.

Next.

Before you move onto your next target, could you respond to my post first? It's such a small post, can't possibly cause anyone any offence.

Here's a reminder - http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=10855939&postcount=61.

EDIT - Wrong link, fixed now.

[Jacktop]

Before you move onto your next target, could you respond to my post first? It's such a small post, can't possibly cause anyone any offence.

Here's a reminder - http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=10855939&postcount=61.

EDIT - Wrong link, fixed now.

Scroll down to post #6.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?14777-Saturday-Runaround-Oscar-The-Grouch

[Rev. Calibos]

Sure likes rambling on, that's for sure... :eek:

Homophobia my ass (no pun intended). If that was the case, they would never have put the character in the company's ORIGINAL FLAGSHIP BOOK in the first place. Not to mention the lesbian character they just happen to have in the back-up of the same book!!

Seriously, go throw your ridiculous conspiracy theories around somewhere else.

This.


I'm not sure how a publisher that not only puts one LGBT characters but TWO of them in Detective Comics is homophobic at all.

And the fact that they're not giving her a monthly a sign that they don't want her in a solo series or is it because sales of Detective are dipping?

We simply don't know. To claim that it's 'homophobia' is jumping to conclusions I fear.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I don't think DC is homophobic at all, sounds like someone is a little paranoid.

[AJM]

Yawn.

Again, you also offer nothing. This is what happens when one lives their life posting thousands of times on a message board and fantasizing they're a Star Wars character.

Next.

Do you reckon ^ this guy ^ will make it to his tenth post before a ban? Twentieth? Anyone fancy a flutter?

Accusing anyone of homophobia before we know any of the facts is dangerous and offensive. You know as much as anyone else here – which is next to nothing.

And what makes you think Warner Bros. are scared of gay / sexual issues? They distributed Will & Grace and Sex And The City, and they released a Sherlock Holmes movie last year with a much-discussed homoerotic undertone.

The likelihood is that J H Williams doing a monthly book isn't practical – he says in the same interview i originally linked to that he takes a lot of time. As you say, the simplest answer is often the correct one, and Williams' schedule is a far more likely cause of the book's possible cancellation than any fictional hate crimes.

[Jacktop]

This.


I'm not sure how a publisher that not only puts one LGBT characters but TWO of them in Detective Comics is homophobic at all.

And the fact that they're not giving her a monthly a sign that they don't want her in a solo series or is it because sales of Detective are dipping?

We simply don't know. To claim that it's 'homophobia' is jumping to conclusions I fear.

Yes. Unfortunately, that was before DC Comics became DC Entertainment.

DC Entertainment, with sights on being a massive entertainment industry player, isn't going to invite protests from teabaggers and religious nutcases by featuring a gay character as the lead of their own book.

Watch both Batwoman and the Question evaporate into invisibility in the upcoming months.

[Rev. Calibos]

Yes. Unfortunately, that was before DC Comics became DC Entertainment.

DC Entertainment, with sights on being a massive entertainment industry player, isn't going to invite protests from teabaggers and religious nutcases by featuring a gay character as the lead of their own book.

Watch both Batwoman and the Question evaporate into invisibility in the upcoming months.



And is that because of 1) A directive from big wheels at DC Entertainment or because 2) Sales of Detective Comics have dipped?



There's no way you can say with any certainty that it's homophobia.

[Jacktop]

And is that because of 1) A directive from big wheels at DC Entertainment or because 2) Sales of Detective Comics have dipped?



There's no way you can say with any certainty that it's homophobia.

And you can't honestly say it isn't.

And judging by the fact that it took four years for Batwoman to even get a story told because of internal panic, history is the best indicator.

[Rev. Calibos]

And you can't honestly say it isn't.


That's the difference here, I never said it definitely was.

What I DO think is that it's impossible to tell.

And looking at the history of National/DC Comics the fact that Batwoman was given such a high profile spot as starring in Detective Comics is actually pretty impressive.



And judging by the fact that it took four years for Batwoman to even get a story told because of internal panic, history is the best indicator.


Again, you don't know that.


Besides, that doesn't even make any sense considering what you posted earlier:


Yes. Unfortunately, that was before DC Comics became DC Entertainment.
DC Entertainment, with sights on being a massive entertainment industry player, isn't going to invite protests from teabaggers and religious nutcases by featuring a gay character as the lead of their own book.

Watch both Batwoman and the Question evaporate into invisibility in the upcoming months.

So years before DC Comics became 'DC Entertainment' there was 'internal panic' about the character......'internal panic' that, I guess, enabled them to give her the starring role in one of their longest running, highest profile books.

[Jacktop]

That's the difference here, I never said it definitely was.

What I DO think is that it's impossible to tell.

And looking at the history of National/DC Comics the fact that Batwoman was given such a high profile spot as starring in Detective Comics is actually pretty impressive.




Again, you don't know that.


Besides, that doesn't even make any sense considering what you posted earlier:



So years before DC Comics became 'DC Entertainment' there was 'internal panic' about the character......'internal panic' that, I guess, enabled them to give her the starring role in one of their longest running, highest profile books.


Absolutely, if you follow the timeline.

The project was shelved forever due to fear that "The Dark Knight" would be tainted by the gay Batwoman in the comics. No one needs that headache.

Once the movie was released and out on video, the Detective run was announced since it was then safe timing.

Now, with new movies coming, animated DVDs and who knows what else, suddenly it's time to pretend the character doesn't exist anymore.

She and the Question will all but disappear once this Detective run is done. Bet on it.

[Rev. Calibos]

Absolutely, if you follow the timeline.

The project was shelved forever due to fear that "The Dark Knight" would be tainted by the gay Batwoman in the comics. No one needs that headache.

Source?




Once the movie was released and out on video, the Detective run was announced since it was then safe timing.

Now, with new movies coming, animated DVDs and who knows what else, suddenly it's time to pretend the character doesn't exist anymore.

She and the Question will all but disappear once this Detective run is done. Bet on it.

And again, this doesn't make sense given that at the time it was still 'DC Comics' and not 'DC Entertainment'.


Yes. Unfortunately, that was before DC Comics became DC Entertainment.

[Jacktop]

Source?




And again, this doesn't make sense given that at the time it was still 'DC Comics' and not 'DC Entertainment'.

First item:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=15692

Again, I don't understand your confusion. DC Entertainment is going to be far more conservative and bottom-line based than DC Comics ever was. Which is saying a lot.

[Rev. Calibos]

First item:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=15692



This?


And what of Batwoman? Well, I'm told the launch of the Rucka/Williams series has been pushed back yet again because of the movie, and fears of "unacceptable media coverage." I'm told four issues are fully completed.


Apparently it's okay for Batman to be dead, and a new character take his place when there's a movie out. But not for Batwoman to be a lesbian. At least wait till it's gone to DVD for that brunette bombshell.


This isn't a source.



Again, I don't understand your confusion. DC Entertainment is going to be far more conservative and bottom-line based than DC Comics ever was. Which is saying a lot.



Again, it's speculation on your part to assume that it's homophobia.

There's no way to tell. Is it because they don't to give a series to a LGBT character or is it because they don't have any confidence in the character?

Some would say that it's homophobia but that's doubtful considering that they've given Batwoman and the Question starring roles in one of their oldest, highest profile monthlies.

[The Batman]

The new movie is still at least two years away. A bit early to be getting cold feet about Batwoman, no? And it's not like the intervening years have seen the Dark Knight Detective disappear from the public spotlight. He's been continued to show up in the animated movies, cartoon shows, toylines, t-shirts, and kid's lunchboxes. They're going to get cold feet over a movie but not over this constant revenue stream?

Also, they put Batwoman into the books right about the time when the most attention was focused on them, right after Batman's high profile "death." If they're so worried about too much public attention from a gay Batwoman, it doesn't quite make sense that they'd launch her series in one of their longest running books right when the most people are paying attention.

It's too bad that between the guy that talked to Greg Rucka didn't think to ask him what exactly "things changed" meant.

[Jacktop]

This?



This isn't a source.





Again, it's speculation on your part to assume that it's homophobia.

There's no way to tell. Is it because they don't to give a series to a LGBT character or is it because they don't have any confidence in the character?

Some would say that it's homophobia but that's doubtful considering that they've given Batwoman and the Question starring roles in one of their oldest, highest profile monthlies.


Yes it is a source. It's a source on the very site you're posting. Your refusal to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less valid.

Corporate America is still far, far from embracing LGBT characters in any roles that aren't stereotypical. The fact that Batwoman and the Question slipped in for nine months before DC Entertainment knocked them out further cements this cultural fact.

[The Batman]

This?

This isn't a source.



Even Johnston was taking the story with a grain of salt and marking it with a yellow light.

[Jacktop]

It's too bad that between the guy that talked to Greg Rucka didn't think to ask him what exactly "things changed" meant.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, it's that reluctance to be honest that leads to the most logical conclusion.

To say that DC doesn't want to release any new titles; well that contradicts Didio stating they want to flood the market with new titles to best Marvel in sales.

What about JHW3's slowness? There's no harm is stating that. Readers get that.

The obfuscation from both Rucka and JHW3 doesn't make DC look good.

[The Batman]

How do you know it's a reluctance to be honest? You can't just assume that.

[Rev. Calibos]

Yes it is a source. It's a source on the very site you're posting. Your refusal to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less valid.

As The Batman points out it's marked with a yellow light on the very site we're posting on.

What does that mean Jacktop?

Secondly:


And what of Batwoman? Well, I'm told the launch of the Rucka/Williams series has been pushed back yet again because of the movie, and fears of "unacceptable media coverage." I'm told four issues are fully completed.

Who told him this?

That's why this isn't a source.




Corporate America is still far, far from embracing LGBT characters in any roles that aren't stereotypical. The fact that Batwoman and the Question slipped in for nine months before DC Entertainment knocked them out further cements this cultural fact.

Again, was it DC Enertainment or was it a dip in sales?

You can't say with any certainty.

And as you pointed out long before 'DC Entertainment' took over the characters still languished for four years at DC Comics because of, as you put it, 'internal panic', remember?


And judging by the fact that it took four years for Batwoman to even get a story told because of internal panic, history is the best indicator.

[Jacktop]

As The Batman points out it's marked with a yellow light on the very site we're posting on.

What does that mean Jacktop?

Secondly:



Who told him this?

That's why this isn't a source.




Again, was it DC Enertainment or was it a dip in sales?

You can't say with any certainty.

And as you pointed out long before 'DC Entertainment' took over the characters still languished for four years at DC Comics because of, as you put it, 'internal panic', remember?

Playing devil's advocate is well and good to try and justify these actions. But the gymnastics you're pulling to try and rationalize this as totally innocent appears more as if you're defending your favorite publisher than actually using logic and history to formulate an analysis.

For what it's worth, Marvel is far worse than DC in this arena.

But that still doesn't make DC good.

[Rev. Calibos]

Playing devil's advocate is well and good to try and justify these actions. But the gymnastics you're pulling to try and rationalize this as totally innocent appears more as if you're defending your favorite publisher than actually using logic and history to formulate an analysis.

What logic is there in putting forth a yellow light rumor from years ago as fact, lol?



There's no logic or history in making assumptions and that's what you're doing here.

You have no idea as to why they decided to not give her a series or even a limited. Do you work for DC? No. Do you have any official statement from anyone at DC that explains why she's not getting a series? Of course not.

What you DO have are assumptions.

This is why you should say things like ' I THINK that homophobia is to blame here....' or 'I BELIEVE it's because Batwoman's a lesbian that they're not going to keep her in such a high profile spot....'

Because you're not sure.

[AJM]

The fact that Batwoman and the Question slipped in for nine months before DC Entertainment knocked them out further cements this cultural fact.

Here are the actual facts concerning Batwoman:

1. Falling sales.

2. An artist who – by his own admission – can't meet a monthly deadline.

...and that's it. That's all we have to go on, everything else is speculation and rumour, and that's all we'll have until either Rucka or Williams offers an explanation.

[Quinnhop]

I wouldn't mind if they continued Kate's story in OGNs and mini-series. As long as it's Rucka and Williams/Rucka and someone of equal talent to Williams.

[Captain Jim]

Ask Greg Rucka why things have changed. Anything else is conjecture/assumption, and there is no single possible answer, there are countless of possibilities as to why the series will or won't happen.

At this point DC hasn't ever announced an ongoing, Greg Rucka did. Now, his co-creator/artist is saying it may not happen because of scheduling issues. The same weekend that this artist said it may not happen, Ian Sattler and Dan Didio indicated that they felt a Batwoman series was going to happen. Whether J.H. Williams, Rucka, or DC have changed the initial plans has not yet been made clear, and chastising DC for assumed crimes that have not been demonstrably proven by any reasonable measure isn't fair. Let all the facts come out before holding people responsible for assumed offenses.

Well said.


There is an article here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25254) on this site where Ian Sattler, Senior Story Editor, says a Batwoman title is coming "soon," at the same comic convention.

Thanks for that; I had totally forgotten this. That makes things even more puzzling, though.


This is the totally wrong reason to increase your creative output.

Fans don't like to hear this, but comics are first and foremost a business.


I don't think DC is homophobic at all, sounds like someone is a little paranoid.

You took the words right out of my mouth.


Scroll down to post #6.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?14777-Saturday-Runaround-Oscar-The-Grouch

So, this is from a post by an anonymous person on a message board who is recounting a conversation he said he had with Rucka? I'm not saying it might not be accurate, but this is certainly not the the strongest source one might hope for.



This isn't a source.


Yes it is a source. It's a source on the very site you're posting. Your refusal to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less valid.


But it's a rumor/ gossip column. That doesn't count as a solid source.

Seriously, Jacktop, all this stuff you're spouting off so indignantly is pure speculation based on your own bias.

Let's stop this line of conversation right here and move on to discussing the actual topic of the thread.

[Rev. Calibos]

Let's stop this line of conversation right here and move on to discussing the actual topic of the thread.

Hear hear.


If they were to even release a Batwoman monthly I'm not sure I'd even pick it up, just based on how Bat-heavy my list already is:

Batman
Detective Comics
Batman: Streets of Gotham
Red Robin
Batman and Robin
Gotham City Sirens
Batgirl

And I'm trying out Azrael but I'm not sure how much longer that's going to last (either my interest or the book itself...)

That's something else we have to consider, with 8 titles already (and the Return of Bruce Wayne mini right around the corner) this might not be the most opportune time to release yet another Bat-title.

Once the dust settles and Bruce is back, once a few of the current books are reassessed and perhaps reshuffled, at that point I think a Batwoman series would find the most success.

As it is to release a series NOW would put it in the unenviable spot of competing with 9 other Batman books, not the best point to jump start a regular series.

[HaroldAllnut]

I think that means that the Question is the main feature and Batwoman is the back-up, which is what Ruck had planned all along.

As far as I'm concerned, DC should vary up all of its generically titles books (i.e. Action Comics, Adventure Comics, Detective Comics) amongst the various characters who sort of fit those respective titles. It just doesn't make much sense to use these titles that were once fantastic collections of varied stories and characters to just focus on one or two flagship characters.

[DonC]

If they were to even release a Batwoman monthly I'm not sure I'd even pick it up, just based on how Bat-heavy my list already is:


I would have to drop another book (Gotham City Sirens, most likely) to start reading a Batwoman monthly. Back when CrossGen was still in business, they realized (too late) that they were competing with themselves for their audience. Maybe DC came to the same conclusion.

[Frisky Dingo]

Apparently Greg Rucka is leaving DC, surely this has to be part of the reason that a "Batwoman" ongoing as hit a bit of a rough patch.


During his spotlight panel at Wondercon, moderated by our own Laura Hudson, Greg Rucka dropped a bombshell. He has been out of exclusive with DC Comics for three years, despite spending those three years working exclusively with DC, and his time with them is over. He just turned in the last of his DC work for the foreseeable future, and his time with Kate Kane is done. He reiterated his love for the character, saying that walking away from her was an incredibly hard decision to make, but one that was necessary.

Rucka went on to say, "The goal when we set out writing Kate was to create a character who would endure. I really didn't want a flash in the pan. I wanted to make sure she had a strong origin. Any writer who read those seven issues would be able to write her, and would be able to write her quote unquote properly." He also revealed the original plan for his run with Kate Kane. Originally, "Elegy" was supposed to be 4 issues, "Go" 3 issues, and then a 5 part story with JH Williams III, his collaborator on "Detective Comics."

Due to a variety of things in-house at DC, they were moved off of "Detective Comics" and couldn't tell the story there. That story would have been Alice's origin story and would have wrapped up the run. "I don't know if I'll ever get to do it," he said, but said that he has "been around in this industry long enough to never say never." He made it clear that he isn't jumping ship to Marvel, choosing instead to focus on his "Queen & Country" novel and several other projects he has been wanting to do. One of the reasons he has backed away from DC was an encounter with his wife, noted writer Jen van Meter, where he realized that he "needs to telling the stories he wants to tell again," rather than getting complacent at DC. Check back later for a full transcript.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/04/02/greg-rucka-finished-at-dc-off-batwoman-wondercon/

[Zach J.]

That news is very disappointing, but I'm glad that Rucka is doing what he wants to be doing. It's never any fun to feel like what you're doing is not what you want to be doing. Still... :frown:

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I think Rucka left because DC didn't want to give Batwoman a monthly.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I think Rucka left because DC didn't want to give Batwoman a monthly.

DC wanted to move Batwoman out of Detective and into her own monthly title, Greg talked about it in a word balloon interview in December, he wanted the story to stay in Detective to complete the over-arcing story the arcs in Detective have set up in the same title. According to the December interview he was against moving the story into the solo from Detective and wanted to make the transition following that arc. In the article linked here he says it was a difficult decision to walk away from Kate Kane and leave DC. If DC weren't going to be having him continue on Batwoman then he wouldn't have to make the choice himself to walk away, it is counter-intuitive to what he has said here. Greg left to focus on his creator-owned work, as he said in the interview, and has mentioned a desire to do as much frequently in interviews over the past three years.

[paulski]

I think Rucka left because DC didn't want to give Batwoman a monthly.

People say the silliest things sometimes.

DC have been trying to get a Batwoman monthly title going for a number of years now. They would have jumped at the chance to have Rucka and Williams on it.