Reviled comic book stories always get overturned. Guess what that means for OMD.

[Asbestos Man]

Making stuff in comic books stick is incredibly difficult at the best of times. It's nigh on impossible when the story sucks.

If 'The Night Gwen Stacey Died' had been a story as crappy as 'One More Day', Gwen Stacey would be alive today and back to sippin' java in the coffee bean. Similarly if 'Kravens Last Hunt' had been been as crappy as 'One More Day' Kraven would have been back in his leopard skin leotards and going on Spider-safaris in Manhattan a long time ago.

These characters remain dead in large part because the stories in which they died are considered among to be among the crown jewels of the Spider-Man canon.

In comics, hated and reviled stories get overturned. Sadly this is often the fate of much-loved classics as well but with the crappy ones its almost a cast iron law.

This rule is to the comic books what the laws of thermodynamics are to physics. An inescapable fact of the natural order.

If Joe Quesada really believed in this unmarried spider-man thing as being essential to the longterm health of the character, then he had to make damn sure that the story Marvel told to do the job was one of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told. Breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a monumental change in Spider-Mans life. It would have required a monumental story to pull off. Not the piece of crap they tried to foist on us.

[CyberHubbs]

Stories in general -- be they good or bad -- get overturned when a writer or an editor thinks they have a brilliant idea.

[Mister Mets]

Making stuff in comic books stick is incredibly difficult at the best of times. It's nigh on impossible when the story sucks.

If 'The Night Gwen Stacey Died' had been a story as crappy as 'One More Day', Gwen Stacey would be alive today and back to sippin' java in the coffee bean. Similarly if 'Kravens Last Hunt' had been been as crappy as 'One More Day' Kraven would have been back in his leopard skin leotards and going on Spider-safaris in Manhattan a long time ago.

These characters remain dead in large part because the stories in which they died are considered among to be among the crown jewels of the Spider-Man canon.

In comics, hated and reviled stories get overturned. Sadly this is often the fate of much-loved classics as well but with the crappy ones its almost a cast iron law.

This rule is to the comic books what the laws of thermodynamics are to physics. An inescapable fact of the natural order.

If Joe Quesada really believed in this unmarried spider-man thing as being essential to the longterm health of the character, then he had to make damn sure that the story Marvel told to do the job was one of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told. Breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a monumental change in Spider-Mans life. It would have required a monumental story to pull off. Not the piece of crap they tried to foist on us.

There's just one problem with your "iron cast law." Was One More Day the hated and derided story which is going to get overturned?

Or did One More Day overturn a hated and reviled story?

[keilthetarheel]

Making stuff in comic books stick is incredibly difficult at the best of times. It's nigh on impossible when the story sucks.

If 'The Night Gwen Stacey Died' had been a story as crappy as 'One More Day', Gwen Stacey would be alive today and back to sippin' java in the coffee bean. Similarly if 'Kravens Last Hunt' had been been as crappy as 'One More Day' Kraven would have been back in his leopard skin leotards and going on Spider-safaris in Manhattan a long time ago.

These characters remain dead in large part because the stories in which they died are considered among to be among the crown jewels of the Spider-Man canon.

In comics, hated and reviled stories get overturned. Sadly this is often the fate of much-loved classics as well but with the crappy ones its almost a cast iron law.

This rule is to the comic books what the laws of thermodynamics are to physics. An inescapable fact of the natural order.

If Joe Quesada really believed in this unmarried spider-man thing as being essential to the longterm health of the character, then he had to make damn sure that the story Marvel told to do the job was one of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told. Breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a monumental change in Spider-Mans life. It would have required a monumental story to pull off. Not the piece of crap they tried to foist on us.


yup - it will get overturned

i was laughing when everybody was running to get Cap #25 the "death" of Steve Rogers - and they were running news stories on it in major newspapers

[ShaggyB]

yup - it will get overturned

i was laughing when everybody was running to get Cap #25 the "death" of Steve Rogers - and they were running news stories on it in major newspapers

thats funny because caps death wasnt a reviled story

[Farmernudie]

The whole premise and how they did it.....just begs for it to be overturned and fixed. Then you get into the facts of how they've not really expalined anything...and you can go on and on as to why it should be overturned.

It is only a matter of time really. Just like Clone Saga.

They can take us on this long long detour thru nowhere, and in the end, the detour will come to an end and we'll get back to making some progress again with stories that matter.

[StoneGold]

thats funny because caps death wasnt a reviled story

There's a lot of misplaced anger in this thread. I'm guessing a lot of dads who never took their sons out for a catch.


But hey, Ms. Marvel still got raped by her son, Don Blake still built an android... although the irony being that technically, OMD was overturned the issue BND happened. Just not in the way the threadstarter wanted.

[CyberHubbs]

I'm surprised that Mets even gave this a thread. Doesn't this break a rule about starting threads based on personal opinions or somesuch? Isn't like we don't have OMD threads it could have been merged with, either.

[agrich]

When I think of "reviled stories" the first one that comes to mind is Sins Past, and there's not even a close second. Thus far, that disputes the idea that reviled stories "always" get overturned, since evidently we still need to accept the nonsense that Gwen Stacy had children with Norman frickin' Osborn.

[Alan2099]

Making stuff in comic books stick is incredibly difficult at the best of times. It's nigh on impossible when the story sucks.


If 'The Night Gwen Stacey Died' had been a story as crappy as 'One More Day', Gwen Stacey would be alive today and back to sippin' java in the coffee bean. Similarly if 'Kravens Last Hunt' had been been as crappy as 'One More Day' Kraven would have been back in his leopard skin leotards and going on Spider-safaris in Manhattan a long time ago.
"Gwen Stacy" and "Kraven" have both been brought back several times. Not as exactly the same character, but extremely close.


These characters remain dead in large part because the stories in which they died are considered among to be among the crown jewels of the Spider-Man canon.
Which is exactly why Green Goblin remained dea-- oh wait. Well, Harry Osb-- hmm... Aunt May? Hobgoblin? Nope. Well, I suppose two examples out of six obviously proves your point.


In comics, hated and reviled stories get overturned. Sadly this is often the fate of much-loved classics as well but with the crappy ones its almost a cast iron law.
Which is exactly why Norman's return during the clone saga has ... oh. nevermind. Again. But at least they got rid of the Iron Spider costume and there's no clone calling himself Scarlet Spider running ... dammit.


This rule is to the comic books what the laws of thermodynamics are to physics. An inescapable fact of the natural order.
Except when they're not.


If Joe Quesada really believed in this unmarried spider-man thing as being essential to the longterm health of the character, then he had to make damn sure that the story Marvel told to do the job was one of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told. Breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a monumental change in Spider-Mans life. It would have required a monumental story to pull off. Not the piece of crap they tried to foist on us.
No. They pretty much DID pull it off. You don't like it, but the only thing required for them to not bring back the marriage is, ya' know, them not bringing back the marriage.


You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just saying
"Bad stories eventually go away so because I don't like this one, it means it's going to go away too. I Hope I hope."

[Mister Mets]

I'm surprised that Mets even gave this a thread. Doesn't this break a rule about starting threads based on personal opinions or somesuch? Isn't like we don't have MD threads it could have been merged with, either.You're always free to ignore any OMD thread.

This one did have a separate point from the "Can you discuss OMD with relatives" thread, and presents a slightly different way of looking at the topic.

[StoneGold]

When I think of "reviled stories" the first one that comes to mind is Sins Past, and there's not even a close second. Thus far, that disputes the idea that reviled stories "always" get overturned, since evidently we still need to accept the nonsense that Gwen Stacy had children with Norman frickin' Osborn.

Over at the other place, I don't think anyone liked Identity Crisis, but Dr. Light still raped Sue, and Jean Loring still killed her by stepping on her brain, and then burning the corpse.

[CyberHubbs]

You're always free to ignore any OMD thread.

This one did have a separate point from the "Can you discuss OMD with relatives" thread, and presents a slightly different way of looking at the topic.

Well aware of that, Mets. Just sayin' that I thought you've been trying to consolidate threads which all pretty much end up the same.

But, hey, your call.

[Mister Mets]

Over at the other place, I don't think anyone liked Identity Crisis, but Dr. Light still raped Sue, and Jean Loring still killed her by stepping on her brain, and then burning the corpse.

Identity Crisis still had its fans. (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/12/10/top-100-comic-book-storylines-30-26/)

And it also sold well, establishing Brad Meltzer as one of DC's top writers.

[Chris N]

There's just one problem with your "iron cast law." Was One More Day the hated and derided story which is going to get overturned?

Or did One More Day overturn a hated and reviled story?

This is the paradox.

One More Day was a bad story meant to fix another bad story.

We will see how the dice fall.

[TomServo]

I'm surprised that Mets even gave this a thread. Doesn't this break a rule about starting threads based on personal opinions or somesuch? Isn't like we don't have OMD threads it could have been merged with, either.

Yes, but that rule was trumped by the unwritten rule which states that every week at least one new thread must be started that has "OMD" in the title. :biggrin:

[stillanerd]

This is the paradox.

One More Day was a bad story meant to fix another bad story.

We will see how the dice fall.

If you mean the unmasking, that was done intentionally since the only reason Marvel made it so Peter revealed his secret identity to the world was because they were going to wipe it out anyway.

If you mean the marriage, well of course, that is a matter of opinion. Not to mention that the other attempts at getting rid of it such the Clone Saga, MJ's "death" in the airplane explosion, Peter and MJ's trial separation, were not received well by readers at all. In other words, tying to fix the problem ended up being worse than the supposed problem itself. As one person made the analogy, it seems that the way Marvel addresses problems is that they ignore a minor skin rash until it becomes gangrene, and then try to cure it strapping themselves to a nuke and setting it off.

[ShaggyB]

on a more topic centered note.... i dont think its a law unwritten or otherwise that crappy stories get overturned... sure it happens from time to time... but that hardly makes it a given that omd will be overturned....

sins past comes to mind....

[stillanerd]

on a more topic centered note.... i dont think its a law unwritten or otherwise that crappy stories get overturned... sure it happens from time to time... but that hardly makes it a given that omd will be overturned....

sins past comes to mind....

Which I imagine will either be overturned or quietly forgotten once Quesada leaves since he apparently likes that story. Heck, even JMS wanted to get rid of it for One More Day and he's the guy who wrote it the first place.

[ShaggyB]

Which I imagine will either be overturned or quietly forgotten once Quesada leaves since he apparently likes that story. Heck, even JMS wanted to get rid of it for One More Day and he's the guy who wrote it the first place.

until then its the perfect example of a reviled and hated story that hasnt been done away with.... thus breaking said "law"....

think the concept of it being a fore gone conclusion that if it sucks it will be reversed needs work... perhaps forgotten.... never mentioned again....

likewise the OP hasnt considered that one could undo omd but keep its results.... (the whole one more thing changed could be may wasnt shot.... thus no need for OMd but we have the unmarried status quo anyway...)

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Ah, wishful thinking.

[Vakanai]

Stories in general -- be they good or bad -- get overturned when a writer or an editor thinks they have a brilliant idea.

This is it exactly. Love a story or hate it, good story or bad, what the fans want to be overturned doesn't count for squat.
In the end, it boils down to this. This is the real thermodynamic law of comic books. Bad stories getting overturned isn't. Editors doing what they want, is.
That's why the marriage was overturned in the first place, whether or not you liked the marriage or hated it (like I did).

[StoneGold]

Identity Crisis still had its fans. (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/12/10/top-100-comic-book-storylines-30-26/)

And it also sold well, establishing Brad Meltzer as one of DC's top writers.

If anything else, just more proof this thread doesn't work. Because one man's trash is another's treasure.

The retcon only really comes when you get a writer who is up in arms about the previous writer's stuff. Or just wants to write their own story which doesn't jive with what came before. I mean, did anyone hate Gwen not cheating on Pete with Norm that they had to change that?

[CyberHubbs]

I believe even Gwen's death -- as celebrated a story as it is -- had quite a bit of hate after it first debuted.

One person argues that its a sign of progression, that characters can die, and another argues that they got rid of a character that was losing popularity to a new love interest, and did more damage than good because it popularized the trend of WiR that persists today.

[Alan2099]

likewise the OP hasnt considered that one could undo omd but keep its results.... (the whole one more thing changed could be may wasnt shot.... thus no need for OMd but we have the unmarried status quo anyway...)
So, how many times have they mentioned Aunt May getting shot and Mephisto stepping in since One More Day Ended?

[ShaggyB]

So, how many times have they mentioned Aunt May getting shot and Mephisto stepping in since One More Day Ended?

survey says...... ZERO

[Farmernudie]

If anything else, just more proof this thread doesn't work. Because one man's trash is another's treasure.




That's just IT.

I've seen all sorts of weird people REALLY luvin' up all sorts of real weird stuff man!

:wink:

There are probably lots of jobless big bright eyed newbies that have made devil deals and break into hotels to have sex with theives everywhere, getting on board this direction. Just the other day, i saw one of my friends skipping down mainstreet (farmland) in make-up, muttering about his stolen bodily fluids, and i kknow he is buying!

I also saw a homeless man talking to a hubcap that he hugs tightly, he is often seen by many, regularly...(unless he is in jail, like he is off and on, for beating up telephone poles)!

So, i degress, there will always be people that collect and enjoy the oddest of things, always be people that make bad deals getting what they think they want, and always be kids wanting to spend $12 a month to associate with someone that can't smoke or marry (!!) but can have drunken sex they can't remember! :smile:

Anway, off to find some autographed bubblegum!...

[Mister Mets]

If anything else, just more proof this thread doesn't work. Because one man's trash is another's treasure.

The retcon only really comes when you get a writer who is up in arms about the previous writer's stuff. Or just wants to write their own story which doesn't jive with what came before. I mean, did anyone hate Gwen not cheating on Pete with Norm that they had to change that?I'll agree here.

Generally it's not fan demand that determines whether something happens, but what the writers and editors want. Exceptions are when something's an unambiguous flop, which isn't the case here.

Hal Jordan's return had little to do with HEAT, and everything to do with what Dan Didio and Geoff Johns wanted.

In order to undo OMD, there has to be the right combination of writers, line editor and Marvel Editor-in-Chief. It only has to happen once, but it seems to me that the majority of comics professionals either prefer an unmarried Spider-Man or don't care much either way.

[coconutphone]

I've seen all sorts of weird people REALLY luvin' up all sorts of real weird stuff man!

What kind of websites are you looking at?

[ShaggyB]

What kind of websites are you looking at?

zing???

(*this message was too short*)

[mikekerr3]

thats funny because caps death wasnt a reviled story

Mostly because almost everyone knew it would be temporary, The when is he coming back speculation started the same time he died.

[ShaggyB]

Mostly because almost everyone knew it would be temporary, The when is he coming back speculation started the same time he died.

so youd agree that its not a good example of a reviled and hated story that was retconned due to such massive amounts of dislike and hate?

[mikekerr3]

so youd agree that its not a good example of a reviled and hated story that was retconned due to such massive amounts of dislike and hate?

I was a well liked story, that was never retconed since what happened was planned by the guy who killed cap all along, The only real change that was made according to Bru is that it was delayed to work in with DR.

[ShaggyB]

I was a well liked story, that was never retconed since what happened was planned by the guy who killed cap all along, The only real change that was made according to Bru is that it was delayed to work in with DR.

thats why i said it was a bad example of a story retconned due to hated-ness.

[Farmernudie]

What kind of websites are you looking at?

Those ones with the waffles, sheep, flip flops, duct tape, and big tractors!!!

:smile:

[ShaggyB]

Those ones with the waffles, sheep, flip flops, duct tape, and big tractors!!!

:smile:

you are a sick sick man... ah well. :biggrin:

[Farmernudie]

you are a sick sick man... ah well. :biggrin:

AND i own my own pair of Muck Boots!!! :wink:

[ShaggyB]

AND i own my own pair of Muck Boots!!! :wink:

lol
Me thinks you are sharing too much again :wink:

[coconutphone]

The scary thing is someone married him! :tongue:

[Farmernudie]

The scary thing is someone married him! :tongue:

Yep, shes sitting at the window seat right now too, reading a catolog, i kid you not, as i type this. Kind of creeps me out now..........

[TomServo]

The scary thing is someone married him! :tongue:

...and sits by the window all day, just waiting for him to get home. :biggrin:

EDIT: Dang it, you beat me too it Farmer! Of course, given our avatars, it's no surprise we think alike.

[Farmernudie]

...and sits by the window all day, just waiting for him to get home. :biggrin:

EDIT: Dang it, you beat me too it Farmer! Of course, given our avatars, it's no surprise we think alike.


I know! You are my long term buddy ol' pal!! lol

Btw, she is STILL by the window!...just an uptotheminute update!

We are about to eat supper though, so that will be changing though!..lol..

[RDMacQ]

Making stuff in comic books stick is incredibly difficult at the best of times. It's nigh on impossible when the story sucks.

If 'The Night Gwen Stacey Died' had been a story as crappy as 'One More Day', Gwen Stacey would be alive today and back to sippin' java in the coffee bean. Similarly if 'Kravens Last Hunt' had been been as crappy as 'One More Day' Kraven would have been back in his leopard skin leotards and going on Spider-safaris in Manhattan a long time ago.

These characters remain dead in large part because the stories in which they died are considered among to be among the crown jewels of the Spider-Man canon.

In comics, hated and reviled stories get overturned. Sadly this is often the fate of much-loved classics as well but with the crappy ones its almost a cast iron law.

This rule is to the comic books what the laws of thermodynamics are to physics. An inescapable fact of the natural order.

If Joe Quesada really believed in this unmarried spider-man thing as being essential to the longterm health of the character, then he had to make damn sure that the story Marvel told to do the job was one of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told. Breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a monumental change in Spider-Mans life. It would have required a monumental story to pull off. Not the piece of crap they tried to foist on us.

I agree.

There is often the complaint that fans aren't accepting of change. I think that isn't true. I think fans are very accepting of change, as long as the story is entertaining. They may not agree with the change, but if the change leads to more entertaining stories or occurred in a very entertaining story then they may not mind. I myself was a die hard Kyle Rayner fan, and was not looking forward to Hal Jordan's return. Then I read GL: Rebirth and I embraced Hal and saw how interesting a character he can be. It also helps that GL followed up with arcs like Revenge of the Green Lanterns and the Sinestro Corps War.

[RDMacQ]

So, how many times have they mentioned Aunt May getting shot and Mephisto stepping in since One More Day Ended?

That may have to do with editorial interference. The creative parties may be working under the assumption that if they don't reference it, people will "forget" about it or move on.

[ShaggyB]

Yep, shes sitting at the window seat right now too, reading a catolog, i kid you not, as i type this. Kind of creeps me out now..........

my god man... shes age'n you as we speak...

[Farmernudie]

my god man... shes age'n you as we speak...

i do lots of yankin'..those pesky gray hairs! Erg! :mad:

[Lorendiac]

Over at the other place, I don't think anyone liked Identity Crisis, but Dr. Light still raped Sue, and Jean Loring still killed her by stepping on her brain, and then burning the corpse.

I think it's more accurate to say: Those things still happened as part of the modern continuity . . . until further notice. :wink:

Asbestos Man said, in the original post of this thread, that "hated and reviled stories get overturned."

He didn't specify that this would inevitably happen within any given timeframe, such as "within the next five years after the story was published."

If the key plot points of "Identity Crisis" get completely overturned in 2024, let's say, 20 years after it was published, that could still serve to illustrate Asbestos Man's point! And until then he's in a position to just say, "Patience, patience! It's bound to happen someday!"

After all, how are those who disagree with his prediction ever going to prove it won't eventually happen? There's no way to prove that sort of negative! :smile:

[Lorendiac]

on a more topic centered note.... i dont think its a law unwritten or otherwise that crappy stories get overturned... sure it happens from time to time... but that hardly makes it a given that omd will be overturned....

sins past comes to mind....


Which I imagine will either be overturned or quietly forgotten once Quesada leaves since he apparently likes that story. Heck, even JMS wanted to get rid of it for One More Day and he's the guy who wrote it the first place.

A quick question about that. As far as I know, since the sequel story arc "Sins Remembered," there's never been any further explicit acknowledgment of the existence of Sarah and Gabriel in other Spider-Man comic book stories.

So for all practical purposes, I believe it's as if Peter doesn't remember anything about those twins, same as if they never existed in the first place, even if no one at Marvel has announced a big retcon to erase "Sins Past." Instead, they're just sweeping it under the rug and forgetting about it -- I believe.

Is that accurate, or have Sarah and Gabriel actually been mentioned again, sometime in the last couple of years, when I wasn't looking?

[RDMacQ]

A quick question about that. As far as I know, since the sequel story arc "Sins Remembered," there's never been any further explicit acknowledgment of the existence of Sarah and Gabriel in other Spider-Man comic book stories.

So for all practical purposes, I believe it's as if Peter doesn't remember anything about those twins, same as if they never existed in the first place, even if no one at Marvel has announced a big retcon to erase "Sins Past." Instead, they're just sweeping it under the rug and forgetting about it -- I believe.

Is that accurate, or have Sarah and Gabriel actually been mentioned again, sometime in the last couple of years, when I wasn't looking?

Not referenced. But Gabriel Stacy will be showing up in the upcoming American Son comic that's coming up in the next few months.

[Lorendiac]

Not referenced. But Gabriel Stacy will be showing up in the upcoming American Son comic that's coming up in the next few months.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH!

I figured that in the wake of OMD and all that, the twins had probably been swept under the rug forever, as if they never existed. (You just had to shatter my illusions, didn't you?)