The Shadow Knows ...

[Three]

Hey there. With the rise of a lot of older properties coming back into comic form such as the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet, I have to wonder where is the Shadow? I am a fan of Lamont thanks to my father who grew up listening to the old radio show and continues to do so to this day. If any pulp figure would lend itself to a more modern take it would be the Shadow. I invision a grim and gritty take on the character much like the Dark Horse version from a long while back, but done in a Sin City type manner.

Any more Shadow agents out there waiting for a return as well? I was thinking about emailing Dynamite and suggesting that they look at this property to pick up.

[Kongzilla]

Why Dynamite for heaven's sake? The public domain part of the character is for EVERYONE. Dynamite have no more or less right to it than anyone else on God's green earth, in fact the more versions the better.

[Ed Love]

Excepting the Shadow is NOT public domain. Street & Smith was very good at renewing their copyrights. Didio at DC has mentioned that they were pursuing to use the Shadow as part of their pulp-Earth, but no other mention has been made while we've seen Doc Savage and notes on the Avenger.

[TwinPistols]

Why Dynamite for heaven's sake?


They're not the end all and be all of revitalizing properties like this, no. But they are very good. I've been picking up The Lone Ranger and Zorro in trade from them and they're being handled extremely well. So far, so good with Green Hornet, so they have a good track record for something like this.

I do agree that this character is well worth it. I've only seen the Alec Baldwin movie, which apparently everybody hated, but just the concept of the character alone is ultra-cool. I'd be interested in taking a look, regardless of who would ultimately wind up with the character.


-Pistols

[Kongzilla]

Excepting the Shadow is NOT public domain. Street & Smith was very good at renewing their copyrights. Didio at DC has mentioned that they were pursuing to use the Shadow as part of their pulp-Earth, but no other mention has been made while we've seen Doc Savage and notes on the Avenger.


Caution- fact check in progress.

The Shadow is most definitely in the public domain, as are many other characters, to the extent that certain pulps, novelisations, matinee serials and radio dramas are all in the public domain. The trademarked name is not useable, but anyone who can't think up a good name has no business attempting a resurrection in the first place.

Those public domain resources are absolutely beyond any doubt useable, quotable, rewriteable or what have you. One trademark check later, you can go for gold.

And as for trusting DC's word- they won't even pay for their own creator owned properties, they heisted many a public domain character into their horrible universe and now attempt to represent that public domain material as somehow theirs- eg their disgusting Kid Eternity parody... And the beat goes on.

Don't ask a fox for advice on chickens. It just won't end well.

[jsf]

I'm pretty sure Conde Nast owns the rights to the Shadow. Here's a link I found to a discussion about this vis-a-vis the status of Doc Savage:

http://boingboing.net/2006/04/08/conde-nast-sues-over.html

And I'd love to see Dynamite do a Shadow series. Get Brubaker to write it, and it'd be gold.

[Ed Love]

I've done research in this area at the Library of Congress. Street & Smith and Conde Nast were diligent in following up their copyrights and renewals for their pulps and comics. They even copyrighted and renewed their radio scripts, one of the few ways to nail down some protection for the radio shows.

There are pulps and radio shows are public domain, but it's either because of the passage of time aka Tarzan and John Carter of Mars who were published decades earlier or they didn't renew their copyrights as the case of Fiction House. Neither of these fit Shadow or Doc Savage (or the Spider and G-8 from another publisher who renewed their copyrights).

[Ben Akers]

While The Shadow would work at Dynamite, I think I'd rather see it as part of DC's First Wave pulp line. To see the character interact with Doc Savage, the Spirit and the "pulp" version of Batman would be incredibly exciting.

[HaroldAllnut]

Why Dynamite for heaven's sake? The public domain part of the character is for EVERYONE. Dynamite have no more or less right to it than anyone else on God's green earth, in fact the more versions the better.

I thought DC still holds the rights? Didn't Howard Chaykin do a Shadow mini for them a while back?

[Three]

I thought DC still holds the rights? Didn't Howard Chaykin do a Shadow mini for them a while back?

I do not believe so. The last Shadow "comic" to be published seemed to be from Enternity Comics back in 1997. I wish DC did hold the rights. More of THIS would be awesome.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/12270-796-13751-1-batman_super.jpg

[thwhtGuardian]

It's too bad Condé Nast Publications isn't doing anything with the shadow. It's weird, they're letting DC use Doc Savage but aren't doing anything with the Shadow. Or maybe it's not they're fault and that DC decided not to use the Shadow in favor of using Batman.

[fod_xp]

Man, I wish I could get the entire The Shadow radio show. As a history major and comic fan, I think that would be really cool!

[Ed Love]

The Shadow pulp stories are being reprinted with the original illustrations along with their other major pulp heroes Doc Savage, the Avenger and the Whisperer. The reprints often contain new essays by Will Murray and usually other extras like scripts from the radio show or other short stories that are related somehow. A movie has been in the works with talks of Sam Raimi involvement now that he's not doing Spider-Man IV. I'd say that's them doing something with the character.

I find it interesting DC felt the need to put the pulp characters on another Earth, in order for Doc Savage to be that Earth's Superman and then plop Batman on the same Earth. The problem with the main post-Crisis Earth is that every hero is made to be lesser than Superman and Batman by the creators and fans. If Superman is a problem for Doc Savage, then Batman is going to be a problem for him, the Avenger and the Shadow if they get around to him as well.

[jsf]

The Shadow pulp stories are being reprinted with the original illustrations along with their other major pulp heroes Doc Savage, the Avenger and the Whisperer. The reprints often contain new essays by Will Murray and usually other extras like scripts from the radio show or other short stories that are related somehow. A movie has been in the works with talks of Sam Raimi involvement now that he's not doing Spider-Man IV. I'd say that's them doing something with the character.

I find it interesting DC felt the need to put the pulp characters on another Earth, in order for Doc Savage to be that Earth's Superman and then plop Batman on the same Earth. The problem with the main post-Crisis Earth is that every hero is made to be lesser than Superman and Batman by the creators and fans. If Superman is a problem for Doc Savage, then Batman is going to be a problem for him, the Avenger and the Shadow if they get around to him as well.

I agree. They needed to simply assign a great creative team (which they did), and let that be the draw. At some point strong stories and good art have to be able to carry a book. But as soon as Batman shows up, it's just a variation of "Brave and the Bold".

[thwhtGuardian]

I agree. They needed to simply assign a great creative team (which they did), and let that be the draw. At some point strong stories and good art have to be able to carry a book. But as soon as Batman shows up, it's just a variation of "Brave and the Bold".
I don't think that's a fair assumption to make, I think they do have a great creative team for first wave, and if issue one and the Batman/Doc Savage story are anything to go by First Wave is going to be a really great read all on it's own, not just because it's Batman the Brave and the Bold.

[HaroldAllnut]

Man, I wish I could get the entire The Shadow radio show. As a history major and comic fan, I think that would be really cool!

Enjoy. (http://shadow.libsyn.com/)

[Babylon23]

The Shadow is most definitely in the public domain

As others have pointed out, the Shadow is most definitely NOT in the public domain. Conde Nast Publishing own the rights to the character and have continually re-upped their rights over the decades.


I thought DC still holds the rights? Didn't Howard Chaykin do a Shadow mini for them a while back?

DC never owned the rights. They just licenced the character from Conde Nast. Later on, Dark Horse licenced the character for a couple of miniseries by Gary Gianni.

As for DC not having the licence at the moment, there could be a number of reasons for that. Another publisher may currently have the licence or it may be tied up in teh potential new movie deal (Sam Raimi was rumoured to be interested in a new Shadow film). As another poster stated, Dan Didio has already stated that DC is pursuing the Shadow licence as part of their First Wave series.

[fod_xp]

Enjoy. (http://shadow.libsyn.com/)

THANK YOU!!!!

OMG! This gets put in my bookmarks.

[Kongzilla]

As others have pointed out, the Shadow is most definitely NOT in the public domain.


Trademark NOT THE SAME AS copyright.

Radio shows for example which are in the public domain, are WHOLLY in the public domain, including the dialogue and script that uses the phrase "the shadow". One cannot use said phrase on the cover of a new work, and it would be appropriate to limit its use in the interior of the work to verbatim transcripts of the radio show for example... But other than that it is absolutely possible to make a public domain based Shadow character to one's heart's content.

And I ought to know, because I presided over just such a publication for over a year.

Character was renamed, appearance was based on the public domain description, and so on.

Likewise the first half of the John Carter series, the Conan and the Tower of the Elephant story, and many other "trademarked we own it nyah nyah" works.

But hey, don't let facts and expert opinion sway you.

[jsf]

Character was renamed ....

Sort of defeats the point, doesn't it?

[Ed Love]

No, trademarks are not the same as copyrights. Most OTR is indeed public domain copyright-wise. But, I've read recently the laws governing that vary from state to state until the latter half of the 20th C. when the copyright law was amended to include radio broadcasts. So, the issue isn't as cut and dry as generally thought it seems.

A few notable items however. 1) Street & Smith copyrighted and renewed many of the scripts, thus copyrighting the story in the broadcasts, thus only the broadcasts themselves are public domain. 2) Some of the stories and characters were worked into the pulps which are NOT public domain 3) the Shadow of the radio show is different in many ways of the pulp character and the character that most think of as "the Shadow" is an amalgamation of the radio AND pulp influences. The visuals and background of the Shadow as a recognizable character are protected through copyrights and trademarks as much of that originated with the pulps. The combination of all those would prevent anyone creating their own book with the Shadow as a character.

All that is gained by the Shadow radio shows being public domain is the right for anyone to copy and sell said radio shows. As long as they don't produce new artwork, logos, or anything else that would infringe on said copyrights and trademarks of the property. Also, the copying should be from an original copy of the show. Some of the sellers of old-time radio have cleaned up and digitally remastered the shows and have legally copyrighted their copy. Thus, I could possibly release a cd/dvd of radio shows, called "Super Sleuths" with generic artwork of a masked man in fedora and overcoat and have it feature episodes of the Green Lama, Blue Beetle, the Avenger, Green Hornet and the Shadow. But, that's about all I could do with half of those characters.

[hondobrode]

I do not believe so. The last Shadow "comic" to be published seemed to be from Enternity Comics back in 1997. I wish DC did hold the rights. More of THIS would be awesome.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/12270-796-13751-1-batman_super.jpg

You're right. More of Kaluta on the Shadow would be great.

Eternity didn't exist in 1997 and that was not the last series with The Shadow.

The Shadow and Doc Savage 2 issue mini from Dark Horse was in 1995.

The last regular Shadow series was from DC "The Shadow Strikes !" from 1989-1992.

I'm liking the First Wave series, and hoping if it's successful, DC licenses or outright buys the character. Street & Smith, the owners, also own Doc Savage, The Whisperer, and The Avenger, who DC is all ready planning on using in the series.

Maybe DC is just holding The Shadow up their sleeve for a big announcement at SDCC (hoping).

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't think Eternity published him at all, especially not in '97 because (as someone pointed out)it didn't exist any more at that point.

As far as I can tell, the last shadow comic was The Ghost and the Shadow, which was a single issue team up done by Dark Horse in 1995.
Although he did make a cameo in Kingdom Come, he was in the bar next to Rorschach.

[Sean Walsh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* the Shadow is involved with DC's FIRST WAVE project (featuring other pulp characters, like Doc Savage).

[thwhtGuardian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* the Shadow is involved with DC's FIRST WAVE project (featuring other pulp characters, like Doc Savage).
I haven't seen anything that links him to the project. As of right now First wave is set to feature Doc savage, the Spirit and Batman, I guess Batman's twin pistols which highly reminiscent of the Shadow's could be taken as a fan nod though.
Perhaps if First wave does well enough the Shadow will be added later.

[g-dawg]

Chalk me up as another fan. The only exposure I have of the Shadow was the film, and it got me interested in the character. He's walking psychological warfare. He can make you shoot yourself in the foot while he hides in your own shadow before he pumps you full of lead in the back. He's a hero, but his methods can sometimes be unsettling, which is why I think he's awesome.

I especially love how he has agents all over the place. How can you beat someone who's got eyes everywhere?

[hondobrode]

I'm a huge Shadow fan and I personally thought the 90's Alec Baldwin movie was nearly perfect.

BTW, look through the news releases and there is no mention of the Shadow up to now.

[TwinPistols]

I'm a huge Shadow fan and I personally thought the 90's Alec Baldwin movie was nearly perfect.



I liked the movie just fine. It was my first introduction to the character, and I thought he was awesome...In fact, I still think that.

No idea why the critics lambasted the film. It worked just fine for some of us.


-Pistols :confused:

[Babylon23]

Trademark NOT THE SAME AS copyright.

Radio shows for example which are in the public domain, are WHOLLY in the public domain, including the dialogue and script that uses the phrase "the shadow". One cannot use said phrase on the cover of a new work, and it would be appropriate to limit its use in the interior of the work to verbatim transcripts of the radio show for example... But other than that it is absolutely possible to make a public domain based Shadow character to one's heart's content.

And I ought to know, because I presided over just such a publication for over a year.

Character was renamed, appearance was based on the public domain description, and so on.

Likewise the first half of the John Carter series, the Conan and the Tower of the Elephant story, and many other "trademarked we own it nyah nyah" works.

But hey, don't let facts and expert opinion sway you.

Nobody can legally publish a comic salled the Shadow using the classic pulp character without the express permission of Conde Nast Publishing. That's really all there is to it. Sorry. DC wouldn't be trying to secure the rights to publish the Shadow in comics if they could do so without paying for the right.