Will Green Lantern become like Teen Titans and Hawkman after Johns leaves? [Archive]

Karl O'Neill

02-28-2010, 10:03 AM

The Batman

02-28-2010, 10:06 AM

If Bedard and Tomasi are still on board, it should be fine.

Absolutely. There might be a drop in readership as the book loses Johns' star power, but the quality should stay consistent enough or possibly even improve. Month in and month out, Bedard's REBELS and Tomasi's Corps are two of my favourite books.

Karl O'Neill

02-28-2010, 10:18 AM

Tomasi's name is getting bigger by the month. Bedard's REBELS is awesome. He will be a perfect fit for GLC.

BTW, Why do people think Geoff is leaving this title all of a sudden? he said he has big plans for the title post blackest night.

Artificial idiot

02-28-2010, 10:21 AM

BTW, Why do people think Geoff is leaving this title all of a sudden? he said he has big plans for the title post blackest night.
I don't think anybody does, I just it's just more that he will have to eventually. Be it a year, three years, five years down the line... So what happens then?

The Batman

02-28-2010, 10:24 AM

A bit of context: I think this is spinning out of a discussion on the Superman forum regarding the ranking of DC's heroes. It was suggested that Green Lantern was now in the number two spot after Batman, and people were wondering if that'd be a sustainable position for him or would he fade after Johns left the book.

Karl O'Neill

02-28-2010, 10:25 AM

I don't think anybody does, I just it's just more that he will have to eventually. Be it a year, three years, five years down the line... So what happens then?

I'll be established by then!

All will be well!:biggrin:

I plan to turn the GLC is mindless drones....................with no emotions.............red metal skin........................no man escapes......................

Desaad

02-28-2010, 11:40 AM

It'll definitely dip in sales unless they put someone like Grant Morrison or Warren Ellis on the title.

But as probably the biggest GL/Hal Jordan fan you'll ever meet, I'm looking forward to Johns stepping down. I want a new voice on there, someone who will refocus the series and bring in some new, intelligent ideas. Morrison would be my dream, Neil Gaiman is a fantasy ever since he said he was interested in the character, Kurt Busiek would be great, John Hickman would be fascinating (and, really, his sensibilities would match up with the title perfectly), and I think Eric Trautmann could potentially deliver something totally out of this world, focusing a bit more on the "Hal Jordan military man" aspect of the character. Oh, and Keith Giffen + Paul Levitz would be astounding as well. Hard sci fi that has rocked the DC and Marvel universes? Yes, please.

With the exception of Gaiman and Morrison they'll all lead to a decrease in sales, but whatever, I don't care. I am not satisfied with the stories being told, I am tired of the Color Guard, and there are a lot of writers out there who can/would deliver it, IMHO.

Gabe De Los Muertos

02-28-2010, 11:45 AM

Not if they get another consistent writer on the franchise. And it won't be like the other two titles, GL has a movie and cartoon coming out, if anything the character will be like Iron Man.

Karl O'Neill

02-28-2010, 12:08 PM

, I don't care. I am not satisfied with the stories being told, I am tired of the Color Guard, and there are a lot of writers out there who can/would deliver it, IMHO.

Talk about comic book fans being mercurial! The colour guard have not been around that long for the love of god!

FailureByDesign

02-28-2010, 12:16 PM

I cant see Johns leaving for a long time so im not going to worry about it.

Quaker

02-28-2010, 12:18 PM

I agree with everyone who thinks Tomasi and Bedard will leave the franchise in good hands if/when Geoff leaves.

titanfan

02-28-2010, 12:57 PM

I cant see Johns leaving for a long time so im not going to worry about it.

Imho, he's done after Blackest Night or Brightest Day. It fits his M.O. leaving after the big story that climaxes his run. There's been a noticeable lack of set-up sub-plots (regarding the Green Lanterns themselves) for future storylines.

He's going to set up a new status quo like he did for Titans and Booster Gold, and then he's taking off.

Desaad

02-28-2010, 01:05 PM

Talk about comic book fans being mercurial!

For me to be 'mercurial' I would have had to have liked the Color Guard/emotional spectrum concept at one point and then changed my mind.

I never did. I TOLERATED what I thought was a childish, overly simplified schema of what is in fact the complex, nuanced structure of human emotion. I ignored the fact that it makes no sense for such a spectrum to exist in a universe that contains individuals that have different spectrums of vision or associate colors different (wow, is Red really rage all across the universe? Because it's not even rage all across the GLOBE!) in hopes that we might get some good stories in spite of it.

But, as far as I'm concerned, Johns hasn't done that. He's absolutely neglected the supposed star of his series (Hal Jordan) in terms of real, deep characterization, and the one note silliness of this emotional spectrum stuff has really reached critical mass.

People say that he ripped Alan Moore off, and I disagree so vehemently with that. But I wish he HAD.

The colour guard have not been around that long for the love of god!

The Color Guard are just an outgrowth of this focus on the emotional spectrum that I find ridiculous. We were getting some good stories all the way through Sinestro Corps War, and once that finished up we were treated to years of mediocrity, IMHO.

Desaad

02-28-2010, 01:05 PM

Imho, he's done after Blackest Night or Brightest Day. It fits his M.O. leaving after the big story that climaxes his run. There's been a noticeable lack of set-up sub-plots (regarding the Green Lanterns themselves) for future storylines.

He's going to set up a new status quo like he did for Titans and Booster Gold, and then he's taking off.

He just set up some stuff last issue, with Parallax being stolen (probably by Black Hand). He's on for another year at minimum, I'll bet.

Hullababy

02-28-2010, 01:13 PM

But, as far as I'm concerned, Johns hasn't done that. He's absolutely neglected the supposed star of his series (Hal Jordan) in terms of real, deep characterization, and the one note silliness of this emotional spectrum stuff has really reached critical mass.

I'm beginning to agree. I have enjoyed his run and well I could excuse the lack of focus on Hal till Blackest Night but I was hoping we'd get some earth based stuff after Blackest Night and actually see Hal interact with his supporting cast out of his costume but what we get is yet another event. The stories he is telling are cool but he isn't really telling any Hal Jordan stories. These stories don't revolve or centre around Hal. Hal is just a part of them. I want some Hal centric stories.

Quaker

02-28-2010, 01:14 PM

I'm beginning to agree. I have enjoyed his run and well I could excuse the lack of focus on Hal till Blackest Night but I was hoping we'd get some earth based stuff after Blackest Night and actually see Hal interact with his supporting cast out of his costume but what we get is yet another event. The stories he is telling are cool but he isn't really telling any Hal Jordan stories. These stories don't revolve or centre around Hal. Hal is just a part of them. I want some Hal centric stories.

He's definitely going to be on for at least another year because Brightest Day won't end for over a year.

Uxas

02-28-2010, 01:23 PM

Imho, he's done after Blackest Night or Brightest Day. It fits his M.O. leaving after the big story that climaxes his run. There's been a noticeable lack of set-up sub-plots (regarding the Green Lanterns themselves) for future storylines.

Hector Hammond? Parallax dissapearing? The Rage entity's existence confirmed by the Spectre? Johns has said that he has no intentions to leave GL anytime soon.

Doc Goblin

02-28-2010, 04:42 PM

It probably will go downhill after Johns leave. Sucks to say so, but... I really have no good reason to believe otherwise.

Flash tanked hard after Johns left it. Teen Titans fell apart. Justice Society of America started crumbling before he even really left and then went all to hell as soon as he did. I actually thought Hawkman stayed really good and Booster Gold was okay after Johns left, but sales didn't seem to agree. I've really enjoyed Action Comics since Johns left, but I'm not sure it counts when Rucka turned it into a very different book.

DC's track record for following Johns on a title is really damn poor. It's not that Johns is the only writer who can do these jobs. I really don't know what it is. But they screw it up just about every time. I don't have much faith it'll be any different for Green Lantern. Maybe Tomasi does get it next. I could see that. Just as I can see the book going downhill. Sorry, but Tomasi's GLC is really not that great and much of what he's done has involved following Johns' lead. Maybe DC will demand a change when Johns leaves, wanting a shift to focus less on the other colored Lanterns and everything else Johns has been doing. And again, the book will go downhill. A whole lot of people are reading because of all these characters and the mythos-building Johns has been doing and not for Hal Jordan.

Yes, Johns is building and will be leaving a pretty good foundation for the Green Lantern franchise to build stories off of. But... did he not do that for other books? I don't recall Flash, Teen Titans or Justice Society of America lacking for much when he left.

It would take a miracle for the Green Lantern franchise to stay near the top when Johns goes. I think people who claim Green Lantern is in the number two spot or in the Trinity are being very... very... optimistic about Hal Jordan and are in for some disappointment.

Alex L

02-28-2010, 08:29 PM

I expect sales to drop, but it won't utterly tank. GL has just about always always been a consistently mid-tier title; it'll take a terribly bad writer to drive sales down.

Raker616

02-28-2010, 08:30 PM

Not really, people just know that like anything it all depends on who writes the character next say Kurt Busiek or Mark Waid writting Green Lantern for example would be a perfect fit. But regardless the question overall is hard to answer because GL has been Geoff's biggest success no matter how well he's done on other books GL is what he will be remembered for. Luckily for me anyways Geoff has made it clear repeatedly that he's not going anywhere anytime soon. So I guess we can table the discussion until whenever that happens and when it does hopefully DC will learn from their misses in the past and put the right people on their flagship books.

the4thpip

03-01-2010, 12:45 AM

Got me. I thought Teen Titans was one of Johns' rare misses, and I haven't read his Hawkman. But I certainly think DC wants to be reeeeally careful about getting a talented writer on the book, either with a similar style to Geoff's or the complete opposite... anything in between those two extremes is, I think, running a big risk.

-D

I agree, he planted the seeds of failure in his Teen Titans relaunch himself. The darkness he gave that book was far beyond teenage angst. I doubt that many other writers at DC would have gotten away with that, considering they created the title with that cast as a reaction to the Teen Titans Go! cartoon for kids.

Beechen and McKeever then tried to run with that theme, and the result was visceral, on panel gore and Miss Martian offering sex to strangers in a dirty men's room. :frown:

I also think Hawkman mostly did fine after Johns until the OYL gimmick of turning it into a Hawkgirl book.

Karl O'Neill

03-01-2010, 02:48 AM

Hawkman was excellent after Johns left. I think the thread title failed in that respect.

Uxas

03-01-2010, 03:59 AM

The difference between Gl and Johns' previous projects is that GL is a huge franchise these days. A lot of readers a genuinely interested in the mythos and the character, not just the writer.

Bevbos

03-01-2010, 06:59 AM

I can hardly visualize it! But just put Tomasi on the main GL book and I guarantee the franchise will continue to ride high.

marvelprince

03-01-2010, 07:38 AM

Do not put Tomasi on the main GL book. His GLC has been good, but not great to the point where I'd want him writing the main title, especially if you want it to remain a top seller. Realistically the only way I can see GL remaining a top seller is if another big name writer who can also tell great stories to come on board. I can't think of anyone other than Morrison, who's GL I'd love to read

Carter Hall

03-01-2010, 10:49 AM

Hawkman was excellent after Johns left.

20 issues+ BY Jimmy and Justin and Joe bennet!

I loved Geoff's Hawkman run but think the Graymiotti faction knocked the entire run out of the park. I dropped the title after they changed the name to hawkgirl and thus the direction of the title. The writing and art was not for me around that time.

Couldn't have said it better myself. As for Green Lantern, the mythos is absolutely rich and fertile with stories for at least another five years, maybe more after Johns leaves, as long as the writer has half a brain. All these Corps, aliens, Alpha Lanterns, are waiting for someone to tell their stories, not to mention the fact that we still haven't heard what the Guardians' other 6 laws are going to be. There's no way any capable writer can mess that up, as far as I'm concerned.

Good thing Geoff has said he doesn't see himself anywhere anytime soon, and that Green Lantern and Flash are characters he will be writing in some form or another for his entire career.

Karl O'Neill

03-01-2010, 10:56 AM

For me to be 'mercurial' I would have had to have liked the Color Guard/emotional spectrum concept at one point and then changed my mind.

Wrong word then but you are clearly in the minority. I respect everyones opinion. I just thought your opinion sounded very righteous against a title and character that has just gone from strenght to strenght since rebirth.

Can't win them all.

Ironically. If Johns left, I might not like the new direction the new writer takes the book in and we would be having the same discussion with me on the other side and you on the "I'm loving it" side.

Peace:biggrin:

raskal66

03-01-2010, 11:25 AM

The difference between Gl and Johns' previous projects is that GL is a huge franchise these days. A lot of readers a genuinely interested in the mythos and the character, not just the writer.

I'm part of that group. I liked Rebirth, loved Sinestro Corps War, and am really digging Blackest Night. While Johns' take on the character is what pulled me in (he just happened to be the dude writing all this cool stuff,) I'll keep riding the character until I don't find it interesting or if the artwork changes in a way I don't agree with. It doesn't have to stay the same, but if it's going to change I hope it'll be a cool change and not a switch to "animation" or "manga" style. I read GL now because Guardians of the Galaxy kept the art in a musical chairs situation where the writing stayed good, but I only appreciated the style of one of the two artists they had on it so I left it for what felt like a more consistently strong sci-fi read with cool pictures in it. The stories are there for GL for any decent writer to pick up and maintain my interest, just please god don't go "kiddie with blood" on the art!

Desaad

03-01-2010, 11:39 AM

Wrong word then but you are clearly in the minority. I respect everyones opinion. I just thought your opinion sounded very righteous against a title and character that has just gone from strenght to strenght since rebirth.

My opinion wasn't righteous, it was just different from yours.

And to YOU it's gone from strength to strength. To me, it's been, for the most part, lacking real emotional heft or genuine substance.

I'm on board because I'm a huge Hal fan, I own ALMOST every appearance he's ever made. If I wasn't, I'm sure I would have left the title some time ago.

Can't win them all.

Too true. He seems to be very popular, which is nice, and I'm happy the franchise and the character I like is doing so well. I just wish I felt it was justified by the work.

Ironically. If Johns left, I might not like the new direction the new writer takes the book in and we would be having the same discussion with me on the other side and you on the "I'm loving it" side.

Depends on the writer, I guess. We can be sure that if it was Morrison I'd be on the "I'm livin' it" side.

greatmetropolitan

03-01-2010, 01:01 PM

I find it weird how many people are talking about how GL will continue being successful because of all the new ideas floating around in the titles these days and how its such fertile ground for great storytelling.

Of course it is. It always has been. There are few comics that DC produces that don't have the possibility of amazing stories being told with them because of the universe of ideas they inhabit.

It'll live or die on the strength of the writer. The strength of the characters and universe they inhabit are unassailable. (and I say that as someone who isn't even a big Hal fan most of the time.)

Good writer and artist = Good comic. Bad writer and artist = bad comic. Regardless of the characters.

Karl O'Neill

03-01-2010, 01:56 PM

Depends on the writer, I guess. We can be sure that if it was Morrison I'd be on the "I'm livin' it" side.

We have a winner.

You think I could miss GL if Morrison was writing it?

Fxxk no!:cool:

BrightestDay

03-01-2010, 04:09 PM

I think that there will be plenty of talented writers lining up to take over GL if/when Geoff decides it's time to bow out. So it shouldn't be too hard to keep the great storytelling going.

I don't really think that was the case with Teen Titans or (especially) Hawkman.

DeTroyes

03-01-2010, 04:35 PM

I don't really think that was the case with Teen Titans or (especially) Hawkman.

There were several who asked for Teen Titans, but DC decided they wanted them elsewhere. So we got stuck with Adam Beechen at first, then he was replaced by Sean McKeever (whom DC specifically went after for TT).

Really, DC's mishandling of the TT franchise since Johns left should be treated as a textbook case in how to destroy a franchise and anger a fanbase. While I hope it doesn't happen to Green Lantern, it would not surprise me at all if that's what ends up happening when Johns inevitably leaves.

marvelboy74

03-01-2010, 05:53 PM

No, I see him on GL for several more years and when he leaves. Plus GJ's new position at DC makes him more responsible for success of GL and the DCU than just being a writer.

Seven_Ride

03-01-2010, 06:33 PM

DC's track record for following Johns on a title is really damn poor. It's not that Johns is the only writer who can do these jobs. I really don't know what it is.
It's because Johns, while not being a great writer per se, does "definitive" so well.

Superman Secret Origin is a great example. He's not redrafting Superman as a Marvel character, or Superman as a post-Millenium yuppie. He's doing a classic take the incorporates all the best stuff from the Silver Age mythos, the Superman movies, the classic Superboy + Legion and even little bits from the Byrne reboot.

Now...does it make his writing better than any of those were? Not really. But he gets the concepts right.

It would take a miracle for the Green Lantern franchise to stay near the top when Johns goes. I think people who claim Green Lantern is in the number two spot or in the Trinity are being very... very... optimistic about Hal Jordan and are in for some disappointment.Not at all. First, Hal Jordan was usually, though not consistently, one of DC's biggest characters from 1959 up until 1993, so it's not like we're in new territory here. The difference is that they can take advantage of comic concepts in other mediums much moreso today than the 1960s, when comics swung from superheroes to horror to sci fi and back. That pendulum still swings, but superheroes have really arrived to the point they don't disappear off the pop culture landscape so easily today. Look at Iron Man; a tier-2 hero for most of the 60s, 70s and 80s. But no longer.

But speaking more to the bottom line, Green Lantern is already a LOT bigger than Geoff Johns, though he deserves credit for helping get it there. Green Lantern already has an animated DVD, a cartoon series coming, a growing backlog of trades at bookstores, and a live-action movie by Martin Cambpell that will most likely set off some (poorly made) sequels.

That's all a LOT bigger than a comic that sells 100,000 copies per month. Except as a starting point, the sales of the comic are pretty immaterial. Green Lantern has basically become DC's X-Men; a concept that was around and popular periodically before, but is now one of their biggest franchises.

Seven_Ride

03-01-2010, 06:40 PM

Or look at Batman. DC was getting ready to mothball Batman in the early 80s and cancel Detective Comics. Interest in Batman had dried up. Comics sales weren't great, nobody wanted to make a Batman movie or cartoon, and merchandising revenue was minimal.

And then Dark Knight Returns hit, and Warners became full-on interested in adapting Englehart's 70s stories into a movie. Once that was made, you had a billion-dollar franchise that has spawned video games, movies, cartoons and so on. And there are still lulls in popularity, but Batman remained a full-tilt hit for most of the past 20 years.

From a concept thought dead 10 years prior. Green Lantern may never be on THAT level, but the Iron Man-level is a realistic goal.

sethysquare

11-03-2011, 06:18 AM

I dont think so.

ropeburn39

11-03-2011, 08:10 AM

DC, for the most part, seems to hire someone cheap and unworthy after Johns leaves a project hoping that readers will just keep buying. Not that it works mind you.

That said, I was not impressed with his Titans at all but I did like his clean up of Hawkman (boo and hiss to Jim Starlin for making it a cluster-frack again). JSA is another good example of dropping to mediocore levels after Geoff left (even though I'm a huge Willingham fan - a time travel story in the first arc????).