Captain America: Reborn #6 *Spoilers*

[Moose967]

This issue is sort just here to fill us in on how Rogers came back since we all know what the end is through WWWTS.

The issue was very good I thought. A good end to a blockbuster series.

So here's what you need to know...

Through sheer force of will, Steve forces Ree Skull out of his mind and back into the robot body. Hank Pym saves the Vision and Sharon. Sharon causes the Skull to become a giant to which all the Avengers attack using the Modoks. The Skull is, for the moment, dead as Rogers says there was no where else for him to go. Sin gets caught in the blast and it turns her face to meat. There is an awesome page where all the people turn and see and recognize Steve and say "It's Captain America!" Now for what Steve saw. He saw himself with a kid and he also saw all the heroes killed by a mysterious figure that sort of looks like Osborn's enforcer. He was hold Thor's hammer it looked like. Bucky was in the Winter Soldier coustume and dead as was Thor and a few others. So Cap giving Bucky the mantle for the moment is his way of trying to prevent that future. Steve is the hero to the very end sacrificing his own happiness.

It was a satisfying ending to the mini. I loved it and am excited with what's next. I'll have my full review soon.

[Laminator_X]

The future vision looked like the alien invasion from the Killraven future, War of the Worlds-style tripods and such.

[CaptainCanada]

The future vision looked like the alien invasion from the Killraven future, War of the Worlds-style tripods and such.
That's what I thought too.

Decent finale, though of all the ways I thought the whole Red Skull story would end, none of them involved "giant robot".

[Push You Down]

so... with Sin's face destroyed.. is she the new Red Skull?

[Hybrid2]

The Vision? he's back?!

[Dick/babs]

so... with Sin's face destroyed.. is she the new Red Skull?

what :eek: Perhaps she was crazy perhaps she was evil But dam it :evilangry: she was hot and I am against the distortion of the faces of Hot women :evilangry:

[CaptainCanada]

The Vision? he's back?!
Er, it's Vision 2.0, ie, the Vision.

[kindella2]

Very nice way to tie Reborn into Seige and a way to make people still need it even though they know the ending.

[JurassicParkIsAnAwesomeMovie]

so... with Sin's face destroyed.. is she the new Red Skull?

That's what I was thinking. This issue was good, not outstanding. It did what it had to do, bring back Rogers. Art was a little sloppy compared to Hitch's work on The Ultimates. Any ideas who the shadowy figure was in Steve's vision?

[Moose967]

That's what I was thinking. This issue was good, not outstanding. It did what it had to do, bring back Rogers. Art was a little sloppy compared to Hitch's work on The Ultimates. Any ideas who the shadowy figure was in Steve's vision?

It looked a lot like Osborn's enforcer to me.

[CaptainCanada]

It looked a lot like Osborn's enforcer to me.There's no way Brubaker is dedicating this much space in his book to setting up something Bendis will be writing. Whatever this is, it's the next big arc-story for his own book.

[jackolover]

This issue is sort just here to fill us in on how Rogers came back since we all know what the end is through WWWTS.

The issue was very good I thought. A good end to a blockbuster series.

So here's what you need to know...

Through sheer force of will, Steve forces Ree Skull out of his mind and back into the robot body. Hank Pym saves the Vision and Sharon. Sharon causes the Skull to become a giant to which all the Avengers attack using the Modoks. The Skull is, for the moment, dead as Rogers says there was no where else for him to go. Sin gets caught in the blast and it turns her face to meat. There is an awesome page where all the people turn and see and recognize Steve and say "It's Captain America!" Now for what Steve saw. He saw himself with a kid and he also saw all the heroes killed by a mysterious figure that sort of looks like Osborn's enforcer. He was hold Thor's hammer it looked like. Bucky was in the Winter Soldier coustume and dead as was Thor and a few others. So Cap giving Bucky the mantle for the moment is his way of trying to prevent that future. Steve is the hero to the very end sacrificing his own happiness.

It was a satisfying ending to the mini. I loved it and am excited with what's next. I'll have my full review soon.

What happened with the meeting between Sharon and Steve? Did they meet at all?

Why would Marvel show a glimpse of future story lines in a Cap book? Are we supposed to believe that this will come to pass, or is it a possible future, or, even red herrings and Bucky and Thor get up afterwards, not dead

So the Red Skull is now actually dead? Or did he jump into his daughters body?

[Expletive Deleted]

So the Red Skull is now actually dead?To the extent that his body was destroyed and his consciousness supposedly had nowhere to go, yes.

I wouldn't count on it sticking, though.

[jackolover]

To the extent that his body was destroyed and his consciousness supposedly had nowhere to go, yes.

I wouldn't count on it sticking, though.

Thanks for the qualification at the end there.

[Captain Librarian]

Heh, looks like we get another "female version of a marvel villain" :biggrin:

Also, I'm sure some of the people complaining about Sharon's treatment in this book will wonder what she was thinking with that Pym beam, but at least she got a cool moment fixing the problem :smile:

Fun end to the series, I hope Steve doesn't sacrifice his hopes out of fear for the future.

[celticguy]

It was a possible future. Since we all know the Red Skull kils Steve in Old Man Wolverine this was not the true future.

and yes I am kidding

[YouthofToday]

Solid ending. i thought the struggle between Steve and Skull could have lasted longer. Oh well, Steve is back which makes me happy.

I'm really curious about he vision of a the future. I'd love for Bru to write a sci-fi alien invasion story. i know we just had Secret Invasion, but those few panels looked pretty cool.

[neohuey89]

It was a possible future. Since we all know the Red Skull kils Steve in Old Man Wolverine this was not the true future.

and yes I am kidding

wasn't that Bucky?

[CaptainOtter]

Heh, looks like we get another "female version of a marvel villain" :biggrin:

Also, I'm sure some of the people complaining about Sharon's treatment in this book will wonder what she was thinking with that Pym beam, but at least she got a cool moment fixing the problem :smile:

Fun end to the series, I hope Steve doesn't sacrifice his hopes out of fear for the future.

I havn't read this yet, so I can't comment, but if Sin did become the new Red Skull that wouldnt bother me too much. Usually I don't like the whole "female version of a villain" thing, since it always seems so tacky and unoriginal. There are exceptions though, and this might be one. Because Sin is the daughter of the Skull, it works. Not in the "female version" sense, but because she is family, and his descendent. She inherits the title, if you will. Of course, inheriting it in this case sounds excrutiatingly painful.

[Captain Librarian]

I havn't read this yet, so I can't comment, but if Sin did become the new Red Skull that wouldnt bother me too much. Usually I don't like the whole "female version of a villain" thing, since it always seems so tacky and unoriginal. There are exceptions though, and this might be one. Because Sin is the daughter of the Skull, it works. Not in the "female version" sense, but because she is family, and his descendent. She inherits the title, if you will. Of course, inheriting it in this case sounds excrutiatingly painful.

Oh no question, this is certainly better. My only problem is...Sin has a ways to go before she reaches her father's level. She at times comes across as whiney and a bit unbalanced, Crossbones seems more like the brains in that relationship.

[jackolover]

In this mini, Steve Rogers takes over another body, (albeit a clone of himself) and doesn't miss a beat. Is that because the spirit of Steve Rogers is such that he is such a powerful influence over any body that he inhabits and becomes this super athlete? If so, how did Steve Rogers let himself get so rundown to the point that he was rejected for the army during WW11, and he had to get in the back door through the super soldier program? Couldn't the spirit of Steve Rogers have just motivated that tired pre-SS Steve Rogers body, and MADE it perform in excellence?

[vitruvian]

In this mini, Steve Rogers takes over another body, (albeit a clone of himself) and doesn't miss a beat. Is that because the spirit of Steve Rogers is such that he is such a powerful influence over any body that he inhabits and becomes this super athlete? If so, how did Steve Rogers let himself get so rundown to the point that he was rejected for the army during WW11, and he had to get in the back door through the super soldier program? Couldn't the spirit of Steve Rogers have just motivated that tired pre-SS Steve Rogers body, and MADE it perform in excellence?

You have misunderstood. It's not a clone, it's his own body pulled from the timestream, and the serum is still in it allowing it to be peak human.

[jackolover]

Oh no question, this is certainly better. My only problem is...Sin has a ways to go before she reaches her father's level. She at times comes across as whiney and a bit unbalanced, Crossbones seems more like the brains in that relationship.

So could this whole run of Captain America under Brubaker be the Origin Of the New Red Skull (Sin). The use of Crossbones to revive her from her imprisonment and mind wipe, as the lover, the motivator and the one who believes what she is, makes CB a candidate for the scrap heap if Sin does ascend the throne of the Red Skull. We saw the New Captain America, (Bucky's ascendancy), what if we also saw the New Red Skull (Sin's ascendency). What if the dynamic between the two (Bucky and Sin), changes to one where Sin wants Bucky as her new love interest, and there is this sexual tension between them, especially since Bucky likes kicking her and punching her, but because Sin is a female, it makes the rivalry of Cap and Skull so much more bizarre.

[jackolover]

You have misunderstood. It's not a clone, it's his own body pulled from the timestream, and the serum is still in it allowing it to be peak human.

Hmm. So the tissue is compatible to his spirit, just that it comes from an earlier part of his history. No difference to the last body he had. I forgot that.

[vitruvian]

Hmm. So the tissue is compatible to his spirit, just that it comes from an earlier part of his history. No difference to the last body he had. I forgot that.

Well, it was compatible to his spirit, and evidently to the Red Skull's till he kicked him out. The nearly superhuman physical qualities are mainly down to the Super-Soldier Serum, as always.

Although I always liked the take on the serum from Ted White's novel The Great Gold Steal, where a major component was a derivative of LSD that basically gave Steve the ability of biofeedback and mind over matter over his own body, so he commanded it to produce more muscle and perform at peak capacity. There were also steroids and implantation of steel rods into his bones (years before Wolverine was invented, too), though, so it wasn't all swami-like.

[Gene M.]

In this mini, Steve Rogers takes over another body, (albeit a clone of himself) and doesn't miss a beat. Is that because the spirit of Steve Rogers is such that he is such a powerful influence over any body that he inhabits and becomes this super athlete? If so, how did Steve Rogers let himself get so rundown to the point that he was rejected for the army during WW11, and he had to get in the back door through the super soldier program? Couldn't the spirit of Steve Rogers have just motivated that tired pre-SS Steve Rogers body, and MADE it perform in excellence?
Rogers suffered from Polio in his youth, I believe.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

so... with Sin's face destroyed.. is she the new Red Skull?

Cool idea from Brubaker. A new Skull for a new Cap.


Very nice way to tie Reborn into Seige and a way to make people still need it even though they know the ending.
Exactly, +1 for Brubaker.

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

I havn't read this yet, so I can't comment, but if Sin did become the new Red Skull that wouldnt bother me too much. Usually I don't like the whole "female version of a villain" thing, since it always seems so tacky and unoriginal. There are exceptions though, and this might be one. Because Sin is the daughter of the Skull, it works. Not in the "female version" sense, but because she is family, and his descendent. She inherits the title, if you will. Of course, inheriting it in this case sounds excrutiatingly painful.

I think they should do it Metal Gear Solid style and have the Red Skull share Sin's brain. Marvel's version of Liquid Ocelot. How awesome would that be?

[Monty_Cristo]

Rogers suffered from Polio in his youth, I believe.

and Timmy Thomas disease.

[Cthulhudrew]

so... with Sin's face destroyed.. is she the new Red Skull?

That or the new Baron Zemo.

Or Doctor Doom.

Or Doctor Demonicus.

[Nefarius]

I found the idea of Sin turning into "Red Skull" interesting.I want Skull dead(for a while...until finding a new host)and let Sin taking his place.Sin always wanted to succeed her father and earn his approval.Now that her father is out of the picture,she has a perfect opportunity to stand alone and following her own path of villainy.

[jackolover]

Did everyone notice the last pages of each of the 6 issues was a full page face, mostly.
1 - Cap, 1940's helmet
2 - Norman Osborn
3 - Red Skull
4 - Skull as Cap
5 - Both Bucky and Skull Caps
6 - Cap as current Steve Rogers.

It just brought it home how strongly Brubaker tied in Osborn into the story. The Dark Reign had disintegrated the Avengers, Red Skull and DOOM had cooperated, and Osborn and Zola coordinated the transfer of Sharon Carter back to Latveria to make the snatch of Caps body from another time. The Red Skull was going to meet Obama and deliver the New Avengers to the POTUS while claiming he was Steve Rogers, returned. When that all exploded on the lawns of the Washington Monument, that crazy scheme fell through, and the real Steve Rogers met Obama instead.

I particularly liked the future visions, (art by Brian Hinch?), because it appeared to use the Stark tribots that were being used in Invincible Iron Man recently, during Tony's visions, too. And that mystery man looked like he was holding Thors hammer, and Thor wasn't dead, as he was getting up. This could be a vision from Siege, as many people get killed during this, and maybe Bucky is one of them? Not likely, as Bucky appears on that promotional art for the relaunched "Avengers" after Siege.

[Monty_Cristo]

I found the idea of Sin turning into "Red Skull" interesting.I want Skull dead(for a while...until finding a new host)and let Sin taking his place.Sin always wanted to succeed her father and earn his approval.Now that her father is out of the picture,she has a perfect opportunity to stand alone and following her own path of villainy.

so basically...Zemo's story?

[Nefarius]

so basically...Zemo's story?

Yes,but with different family.:tongue:

[Monty_Cristo]

Yes,but with different family.:tongue:

maybe Zemo can adopt her.

[Pedrocas]

So, what did Steve told Vision while travelling through time? And the tripods of Steve's vision looked like the tripods of Stark's comma visions, could it be related somehow?

[The Last Day Dawns]

The tripods do look similar to the ones shown in Invincible Iron Man (and not to mention War of the Worlds).

What I wasn't much a fan of was how quickly the few Avengers just quickly flee the battlefield afterwards. Not much of a "oh hey Steve, welcome back, we've been mourning over you for so long but we'll just run away now". Sure it opens up conversations in future issues (unless they completely skip these conversations which would be stupid) but I felt it was a bit disrespectful to Steve.

[Punchdrunk]

Those visions at the end sure look like what's going on in Broxton.
It looked to me like Bucky was down for the count, Thor was pretty battered, and Steve was the one lifting Mjolnir.

The Tony's fever dream tribots might be something Iron Man uses as his surrogates to balance the odds in OK with Stark still on the operating table as the fight begins in earnest.

It would be kind of fun if each of them somehow adopts the attributes of the others - Don Blake might draw on some Stark Tech, Tony using advanced battle strategy, Cap wielding Mjolnir - to win the day.

Of course I'd rather have Thor bring down a gothic storm while bitch slapping the Void, Tony engage a secret satellite that does pinpoint laser destruction to Norman's best troops, and Cap coordinate the Asgardians and various good guys in some flanking manuever that leaves Ares scratching his head at the genius of it - but I'll take what I can get.

[Nefarius]

Has anyone found funny the defeat of Red Skull?It was like Megazords attacking a giant monster.:tongue:

http://img2.pict.com/ba/cc/3c/2663717/0/800/careborn05023.jpg

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

I guess Crossbones won't be having sex with Sin anytime soon....

[Punchdrunk]

Or maybe he will - he's been pretty devoted to the crimson cadaver cranium for a looooooong time. Now he gets to hang with the distaff version.
Sickety sickety sick.

[StoneGold]

I think they should do it Metal Gear Solid style and have the Red Skull share Sin's brain. Marvel's version of Liquid Ocelot. How awesome would that be?

As awesome as when Skull was sharing brains with Lukin?

[StoneGold]

Has anyone found funny the defeat of Red Skull?It was like Megazords attacking a giant monster.:tongue:


I was thinking more like the final boss in Captain America and the Avengers by Data East, where the boss is a giant Red Skull robot.

[jackolover]

The tripods do look similar to the ones shown in Invincible Iron Man (and not to mention War of the Worlds).

What I wasn't much a fan of was how quickly the few Avengers just quickly flee the battlefield afterwards. Not much of a "oh hey Steve, welcome back, we've been mourning over you for so long but we'll just run away now". Sure it opens up conversations in future issues (unless they completely skip these conversations which would be stupid) but I felt it was a bit disrespectful to Steve.

They did have that welcome home party at the end, but the reader didn't get an invite????? I would have liked to have seen what happened there, especially how Steve addressed the subject of Sharon shooting him.

[jackolover]

Those visions at the end sure look like what's going on in Broxton.
It looked to me like Bucky was down for the count, Thor was pretty battered, and Steve was the one lifting Mjolnir.

The Tony's fever dream tribots might be something Iron Man uses as his surrogates to balance the odds in OK with Stark still on the operating table as the fight begins in earnest.

It would be kind of fun if each of them somehow adopts the attributes of the others - Don Blake might draw on some Stark Tech, Tony using advanced battle strategy, Cap wielding Mjolnir - to win the day.

Of course I'd rather have Thor bring down a gothic storm while bitch slapping the Void, Tony engage a secret satellite that does pinpoint laser destruction to Norman's best troops, and Cap coordinate the Asgardians and various good guys in some flanking manuever that leaves Ares scratching his head at the genius of it - but I'll take what I can get.

Not a bad vision of the future, yourself. I do question that the guy holding the hammer is Cap, because Cap was in that vision looking at the guy.


I guess Crossbones won't be having sex with Sin anytime soon....

Crossbones seemed to just disappear, doesn't he. I suspect he will return and take back Sin, at some later stage. I wasn't sure what scarred Sin's face as she seemed to get hit from behind. Did her whole body get burnt?

[Punchdrunk]

Do you think that's Clor holding his fake hammer then or are we going to have Bendis upgrading ARES worthiness to lift it or some other contender?

It's a pretty big tease for such a blip on the page.

[Taiso]

Read it.

Loved it.

Every page.

Despite the fact that I knew how it was going to turn out.

This issue is all the proof you need that Steve needs to be Cap, leading the charge.

ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

Now let's stop all this pointless banter about 'Steve Rogers, Director of this or that.'

He's Cap.

AWESEOME ISSUE.

My only gripe: that the publishing schedule was fubar.

[Majinoaw]

maybe Zemo can adopt her.

They both share a lot in common. Perhaps they can form a team or something.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Crossbones seemed to just disappear, doesn't he. I suspect he will return and take back Sin, at some later stage. I wasn't sure what scarred Sin's face as she seemed to get hit from behind. Did her whole body get burnt?

I imagine he was thinking "Oh heeeellll no! I'm out!"



Now let's stop all this pointless banter about 'Steve Rogers, Director of this or that.'

He's Cap.


No, Bucky is Cap.

[Nefarius]

As awesome as when Skull was sharing brains with Lukin?

To me,Skull/Lukin was the equivelant of Liquid Ocelot in Marvel.

And you're right.Robo Skull is similar to the arcade game.:biggrin:

[StoneGold]

To me,Skull/Lukin was the equivelant of Liquid Ocelot in Marvel.

And you're right.Robo Skull is similar to the arcade game.:biggrin:

Well, slightly less stupid, because it wasn't psychic transfer due to arm transplant surgery.

[jackdoe]

No, Bucky is Cap.

Lol. He is indeed. It would be interesting though if Steve becomes Colonel America or General America. After all these years of service, one figures that he would be due for a promotion.

[Nefarius]

Well, slightly less stupid, because it wasn't psychic transfer due to arm transplant surgery.

You know,i prefer the whole phychic transfer due to arm transplant surgery than what they choose to do in MGS4(maybe 'cause i am a Liquid's fanboy).But the whole Red Skull in Lukin's body was quite similar with what happened pre-MGS4.

[Nefarius]

No, Bucky is Cap.

You know what,Bucky grew inside me and i have fully accepted him as Captain America.Steve should find another role,maybe taking Osborn's place to redeem SHIELD and SHRA.

[StoneGold]

You know,i prefer the whole phychic transfer due to arm transplant surgery than what they choose to do in MGS4(maybe 'cause i am a Liquid's fanboy).But the whole Red Skull in Lukin's body was quite similar with what happened pre-MGS4.

Or any other man with two brains scenario, yeah. But just personal preference, I prefer psychic transfer due to partially broken magic box that can alter reality than arm surgery.

[Nefarius]

Or any other man with two brains scenario, yeah. But just personal preference, I prefer psychic transfer due to partially broken magic box that can alter reality than arm surgery.

I agree with you.Too bad that there wasn't a cosmic cube in Metal Gear universe.:biggrin:

[jackdoe]

I agree with you.Too bad that there wasn't a cosmic cube in Metal Gear universe.:biggrin:
Nanomachines = cosmic cube in the Metal Gear Universe. Want to revive a dead character? Nanomachines! Want to stop cancer? Nanomachines! Want to have psychic powers? Nanomachines!

[The Last Day Dawns]

Those visions at the end sure look like what's going on in Broxton.
It looked to me like Bucky was down for the count, Thor was pretty battered, and Steve was the one lifting Mjolnir.

Erm. If you look at that page again, the third last panel shows you the shadowed figure lifting up some lightning arcing weapon (we'll assume it is Mjolnir), but the panel before shows Steve looking at the shadowed figure. And no he didn't just become the shadow figure.

[Sighphi]

Girl Red Skull?
Oh boy.

[jackolover]

Lol. He is indeed. It would be interesting though if Steve becomes Colonel America or General America. After all these years of service, one figures that he would be due for a promotion.

That would be awesome for Cap. What if Obama made Cap an actual General of armed forces. How would Steve Rogers implement his forces? A conventional General uses Air and land based forces, but what would a super human like Cap do?

[jackdoe]

That would be awesome for Cap. What if Obama made Cap an actual General of armed forces. How would Steve Rogers implement his forces? A conventional General uses Air and land based forces, but what would a super human like Cap do?

That's obvious. Lead an army of superheroes.

Wait a second....

[jackolover]

That's obvious. Lead an army of superheroes.

Wait a second....

I was thinking more that Steve Rogers may have to abandon super heroes and be in charge of conventional forces, with backup from the Avengers through contact with Bucky. That one scene where Bucky sees Cap is back, and he says, "I knew you could defeat that Nazi bastard"!! was so heartening, considering they never spoke to each other again after the Cosmic Cube incident. That showed me the old Bucky was back, too, and it sets up the relationships of all those other later appearances in the Annuals. But NA #61 negated all the good that Zemo did Steve by returning Caps locker, because HAMMER just tore it open and confiscated it. That will be used in a later storyline again.

[Nefarius]

Nanomachines = cosmic cube in the Metal Gear Universe. Want to revive a dead character? Nanomachines! Want to stop cancer? Nanomachines! Want to have psychic powers? Nanomachines!

Nanomachines really killed the franchise(and one crappy resurection during the end:mad:).

[Nefarius]

Pym's particles on Red Skull= THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUelB-OSneY&feature=related

[Taiso]

No, Bucky is Cap.

The iconic splash page in Reborn #6 rightly points out otherwise.

[Mark_Parnell]

Man this series had so much potential to end one of the best Cap Runs ever but it went out with a whimper. Part of it was thanks to the delay and subsequent reveal in other series and part of it was in the execution. I get the fact that with a title of Reborn, Steve was coming back, but I was hoping that Steve was in fact The Red Skull. How nice of a twist would it have been with the debut of the Age of Hero's if one of the most iconic heros was in fact one of the most diabolical villians. While it's nice to see Steve return to the Marvel U I am excited that Bucky is remaining Cap for the forseeable future.

[Green Griffin]

A Mediocre end to an overall boring mini that could have been told in four or three issues in the main Cap Series.

[agrich]

I won't pretend to be a criminal mastermind, but I think that what appeared to be the Skull's plan initially -- you know, have Sharon kill Captain America with a regular old gun -- was a lot more effective than what the plan turned out to be. "Let's see, have Steve Rogers dead at the hands of his beloved, who's paralyzed by guilt..." or.....OR....."Have him traveling through time, so that he can return, mentally overpower me for control of his reborn, fully healthy body, and resume his place as heroic figure in the world."

Big Brubaker and Cap fan, but this was a pretty awful series, from premise on down. It just kind of makes the Skull look like a complete idiot.

[Green Griffin]

I won't pretend to be a criminal mastermind, but I think that what appeared to be the Skull's plan initially -- you know, have Sharon kill Captain America with a regular old gun -- was a lot more effective than what the plan turned out to be. "Let's see, have Steve Rogers dead at the hands of his beloved, who's paralyzed by guilt..." or.....OR....."Have him traveling through time, so that he can return, mentally overpower me for control of his reborn, fully healthy body, and resume his place as heroic figure in the world."

Big Brubaker and Cap fan, but this was a pretty awful series, from premise on down. It just kind of makes the Skull look like a complete idiot.

well the skull was a nazi, so he not the brightest.

[Jake V]

I won't pretend to be a criminal mastermind, but I think that what appeared to be the Skull's plan initially -- you know, have Sharon kill Captain America with a regular old gun -- was a lot more effective than what the plan turned out to be. "Let's see, have Steve Rogers dead at the hands of his beloved, who's paralyzed by guilt..." or.....OR....."Have him traveling through time, so that he can return, mentally overpower me for control of his reborn, fully healthy body, and resume his place as heroic figure in the world."

Big Brubaker and Cap fan, but this was a pretty awful series, from premise on down. It just kind of makes the Skull look like a complete idiot.
That's the thing. He kinda is. Every plan he comes up with ultimately becomes second priority to personally defeating Cap and taking over Cap's body. As always, a simple death isn't enough, it has to be a complete (and impossible) defeat where Cap acknowledges that the Red Skull beat him.

[Majinoaw]

That's the thing. He kinda is. Every plan he comes up with ultimately becomes second priority to personally defeating Cap and taking over Cap's body. As always, a simple death isn't enough, it has to be a complete (and impossible) defeat where Cap acknowledges that the Red Skull beat him.

It's not enough for Skull to just beat or kill Rogers... He has to defeat him philisophically. I mean the man was in the clone of Steve's body at one point.

Skull has always been twisted and a bit idiotic in his obsession towards Rogers...

[Danvh3]

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see the "Welcome Back Steve" party?

[Monty_Cristo]

It's not enough for Skull to just beat or kill Rogers... He has to defeat him philisophically. I mean the man was in the clone of Steve's body at one point.

well he should have taken that opportunity to impregnate Sharon. or Plan B, kill Sharon so that she dies thinking that Steve killed her. that would have "defeated" Steve.

[Monty_Cristo]

How nice of a twist would it have been with the debut of the Age of Hero's if one of the most iconic heros was in fact one of the most diabolical villians.

tell me you were around for the first run of Thunderbolts. that's kind of what happened. the marvel public thought that they had a new Captain America in Citizen V.

[Sentry76]

I thought it was a so-so issue but I enjoyed the series as a whole so it evens out.

Far more excited about the Martian war preview they popped up there at the end in Cap's visions of the future. Cap with the hammer looked pretty cool :D
I'm assuming this was what JMS was showing us when he brought back Thor in issue 1? It showed a damn near identical image (colouring and the like) when Thor was being convinced to wake up to the mortal world again.

Next big Avengers story no doubt :)

[Brother Justin Crowe]

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see the "Welcome Back Steve" party?

Very, actually.

[jackolover]

That's the thing. He kinda is. Every plan he comes up with ultimately becomes second priority to personally defeating Cap and taking over Cap's body. As always, a simple death isn't enough, it has to be a complete (and impossible) defeat where Cap acknowledges that the Red Skull beat him.

That final battle of minds between Steve Rogers and the Red Skull, looked to me like Schmidt was completely thrown to have Steve Rogers fighting him. I get the feeling Skull thought he had beaten Steve Rogers, but that it was an accident that Steve landed in the same body as Skull, and Skull panicked. According to the Skull, he had won, he was cutting the new Caps head off, and then going to the POTUS to BE the evil Captain America. But then BAM!

[Van Custo]

I thought it was a so-so issue but I enjoyed the series as a whole so it evens out.

Far more excited about the Martian war preview they popped up there at the end in Cap's visions of the future. Cap with the hammer looked pretty cool :D
I'm assuming this was what JMS was showing us when he brought back Thor in issue 1? It showed a damn near identical image (colouring and the like) when Thor was being convinced to wake up to the mortal world again.

Next big Avengers story no doubt :)

Yes this is what I thought too. It made me remember that scene from Thor right away.

Crazy stuff.

[Will.S]

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see the "Welcome Back Steve" party?

I was, it would have certainly justified the use of the tri-fold cover more.

I hate to say this but I feel conflicted on this issue and even disappointed on a couple of levels. On one hand, I liked the use of the Avengers and the attempt at an epic battle between Giant Red Skull and the Avengers. I also liked how it showed some interesting bits of whats to come with the possible future showing vague looking tripods and some lightning object wielding individual.

But on the other hand WWWtS pretty much spoiled the ending so no matter what extra future sub-plots there were in this issue to try to make it feel more substantial, #602's release just makes it all the more evident how FUBAR'ed the scheduling was. The thing that gets to me is that this issue almost feels unnecessary. While I understand that Tom and Ed wanted to close this mini series out properly I think if there was less time spent on all those Hitch drawn double page spread flashbacks in the previous issues and Reborn #5 was blown up to double sized it could have avoided some of these pacing and scheduling problems.

Getting back into the story, unfortunately some of the dialogue (particularly Red Skull's) becomes banal and even Cap's lines at times. Scenes like Cap jumping up in the air in full splash page glory w/shield in hand with someone shouting out "It's him, it's Captain America!" also felt incredibly cheesy. Hitch's art, despite the frequent anatomy issues throughout this mini series, started out much stronger than the way it ended here. It felt like at times Hitch merely did breakdowns with Jackson Guice doing most of the heavy lifting and even doing full on drawing save for a couple of very Hitch style pages.

I don't know, perhaps when read together all at once and with WWWtS it'll feel like a much stronger read but unfortunately the book, while still good, felt rushed and not as good as the previous issues so it's disheartening to see the book end on such a weaker note.

7/10

[Retrodork]

The future Steve glimpses reminds me a whole lot of the Guardians of the Galaxy's future, the whole Martian tripods defeating the heroes and taking over Earth thing. Just my two cents....
Otherwise, I enjoyed the series overall. It's great to have Cap back, but leaving Bucky at the helm for awhile as he gets his head back together. I enjoy Bucky being his own incarnation as Cap, and I don't see why he can't continue in the role, even after Steve takes up the shield again full-time. I see no precedent that can't allow it.
And yes, I also agree about Red Skull's unhealthy obsession with machiavellian, over thought out grand schemes when a simple bullet would have solved everything. He's evidently never watched a James Bond movie, or he'd have learned his lesson by now.

[jsf]

I think the Skull's consciousness jumped into Crossbones body. When you go back and read the brief throwdown between 'bones and Falcon, the Modoks intervene with the "None can touch the Master" statement. I don't believe they'd be saying that about Crossbones. Also, when you read the dialogue between Bucky and Steve about where the Skull might be (the "where did the Skull go" or whatever claim), the panel shows the battlefield, and Crossbones is at the center of the scene.

I think the reactivated Skull/Zola body thing was just a ruse in case the Skull lost control of Rogers body. Everybody'd expect him to return to his previous body -- which could be programmed to act like the Skull to create a distraction while the Skull/Crossbones got away.

Just my thoughts.

[Nefarius]

I think the Skull's consciousness jumped into Crossbones body. When you go back and read the brief throwdown between 'bones and Falcon, the Modoks intervene with the "None can touch the Master" statement. I don't believe they'd be saying that about Crossbones. Also, when you read the dialogue between Bucky and Steve about where the Skull might be (the "where did the Skull go" or whatever claim), the panel shows the battlefield, and Crossbones is at the center of the scene.

I think the reactivated Skull/Zola body thing was just a ruse in case the Skull lost control of Rogers body. Everybody'd expect him to return to his previous body -- which could be programmed to act like the Skull to create a distraction while the Skull/Crossbones got away.

Just my thoughts.

That's an interesting theory.It could explain Crossbones sudden disappear.

[oneasian]

Awesome. I really like that interpretation! We all know the Red Skull can never reallllly go away.

[oneasian]

Did everyone notice the last pages of each of the 6 issues was a full page face, mostly.
1 - Cap, 1940's helmet
2 - Norman Osborn
3 - Red Skull
4 - Skull as Cap
5 - Both Bucky and Skull Caps
6 - Cap as current Steve Rogers.

It just brought it home how strongly Brubaker tied in Osborn into the story. The Dark Reign had disintegrated the Avengers, Red Skull and DOOM had cooperated, and Osborn and Zola coordinated the transfer of Sharon Carter back to Latveria to make the snatch of Caps body from another time. The Red Skull was going to meet Obama and deliver the New Avengers to the POTUS while claiming he was Steve Rogers, returned. When that all exploded on the lawns of the Washington Monument, that crazy scheme fell through, and the real Steve Rogers met Obama instead.

I particularly liked the future visions, (art by Brian Hinch?), because it appeared to use the Stark tribots that were being used in Invincible Iron Man recently, during Tony's visions, too. And that mystery man looked like he was holding Thors hammer, and Thor wasn't dead, as he was getting up. This could be a vision from Siege, as many people get killed during this, and maybe Bucky is one of them? Not likely, as Bucky appears on that promotional art for the relaunched "Avengers" after Siege.

I like this too!

[Captain Librarian]

I think the Skull's consciousness jumped into Crossbones body. When you go back and read the brief throwdown between 'bones and Falcon, the Modoks intervene with the "None can touch the Master" statement. I don't believe they'd be saying that about Crossbones. Also, when you read the dialogue between Bucky and Steve about where the Skull might be (the "where did the Skull go" or whatever claim), the panel shows the battlefield, and Crossbones is at the center of the scene.

I think the reactivated Skull/Zola body thing was just a ruse in case the Skull lost control of Rogers body. Everybody'd expect him to return to his previous body -- which could be programmed to act like the Skull to create a distraction while the Skull/Crossbones got away.

Just my thoughts.

Hmm, that'd throw a wrench in Crossbones/Sin's relationship, though who knows how Crossbones will respond to a defaced Sin? At this point, I do start to think Sin has to be frustrated enough to permanently turn on her father. If he took her boyfriend's body, combined with blamer him for her face, maybe that would push her over the edge.

[strathcona]

The future vision looked like the alien invasion from the Killraven future, War of the Worlds-style tripods and such.

That was my immediate thought too... though didn't that future get averted already in the Wisdom mini a few years ago? Regardless, I always thought that storyline had a lot of potential and should be used as the basis of a bigger storyline... Captain America would be the perfect place for it (not an event).

[Schmakt]

finally read this last night.

I'm sticking around the main Cap title for one more arc... if Bru takes it back to the feel and style that we had pre-Reborn, I'll stick around b/c those were some of the best comics I've read in a long time, but this mini + all those stupid one-shots have just about turned me off of Cap. I thought the art was also pretty bad for the most part too... especially the scene where Steve called Sharon "beautiful." She looked physically retarded in that shot... (not that that precludes someone from being beautiful, but Sharon's not, so she shouldn't have looked that way.)

I *did,* however, really like to get to see the force shield thing from Waid's run! :)

blah. Maybe I'll just drop Cap now... so very much do not care anymore.

[TOAA]

blah. Maybe I'll just drop Cap now... so very much do not care anymore.

Two Americas looks fine so far. And i agree with everything you said about Reborn.

[jpk]

Those tripods in Steve's vision look an awful lot like the ones in Tony Stark's subconscious mind in the current Iron Man arc, don't they?

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Those tripods in Steve's vision look an awful lot like the ones in Tony Stark's subconscious mind in the current Iron Man arc, don't they?

Well spotted.

[Anxy]

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see the "Welcome Back Steve" party?

Wow, I'm glad to see I'm far from the only one who felt this way as well!

It would have been a great opportunity for the two Caps to establish the "new" status quo and discuss who's going to be doing what dressed as whom, and why and for how long.

I gotta say, I found this mini-series to be a big messy dud. I know Brubaker wrote it and he's a golden cow of fandom, but his best intentions could have been compromised by poor timing and editorial pressures. So I'm not saying Bru's a hack. I'm just saying I thought this mini was a hot mess of a FAIL, especially with the delay and the extra issue tacked on. Really? All that...for this??? PAH!

[Schmakt]

Two Americas looks fine so far. And i agree with everything you said about Reborn.

read 602 last night...
you're right - definitely not bad; I think the bad taste that Reborn and the one-shots left in my mouth is jading my perception of Cap in general. But it was definitely better enough than Reborn to at least stick through the arc. *thumbs up*

[Ash-$]

i havn't read it but it sounds like a mix of all marvel's big futures, if i remember correctly Steve ends up with Thor's hammer at the end of the 2099 universe

[Ping]

I just caught up on this and read 1-6 straight through. It was pretty decent. Not quite the level of the early issues of Bru's run, but very enjoyable to read. A nice finish to the Steve Rogers is dead story.

Part of me wishes that it could have been in the regular series and drawn by Steve Epting, but another part of me is glad that I got a Bryan Hitch drawn Cap adventure. Hitch has been doing a good job with his output. Lateness wasn't a major issue for him with Fantastic Four or this series. The work isn't quite Ultimates level, but he does some nice Neal Adams stuff, and shows that with a good inker and colorist like Guice and Mounts, he can still be one of the top artists on a near monthly level.

I doubt the Red Skull is dead. Ewww...poor Sin. Where's Crossbones?

Time to catch up on Who Will Wear The Shield and Cap 602 to see if it's worth continuing to buy.

[Moose967]

i havn't read it but it sounds like a mix of all marvel's big futures, if i remember correctly Steve ends up with Thor's hammer at the end of the 2099 universe

That wasn't Steve with the hammer or whatever that was.

[Choppa]

I meant to voice some thoughts on this before. I thought this whole mini-series was a bunch of crap. The build up to the Skull's secret plan was huge, but all it turned out to be was that he was going to lose Steve in time and posess his body? Am I understanding it right? Wouldn't it have been easier to just shoot him for real? With a real gun?

And the ending was so anti-climactic. I know it's a story about his return, but couldn't there have been some kind of struggle or twist or something? Once the skull is in his body he simply overpowers him with will power? Wtf is that??

Why did this even need to be a mini-series? Or even better, why did Steve even need to be brought back? Was it just so that the status quo was back in time for Siege? I remember seeing comments that he was never intended to die for real and was supposed to come back a few issues after his death. If that's true, then why didn't his return just happen in the main book?

I really enjoyed Brubaker's run and was really looking forward to the payoff of everything that had been setup before this. But the final story was just a big let down.

[jackolover]

What is it about Reborn that made Steve Rogers remember all of Marvel Projects and Thomas Hollaways contributions, after Steve came back? Because in the last issue of Marvel Projects Steve and Matt Hawk deliver Matts mask and guns to Jason Hollaway, as a legacy of Thomas Hollaway . Did Cap see Thomas Hollaway during the Reborn Time jumps, so after he returned, he was compelled to recall those times and then make the pilgramage to Matt Hawk? Or is MP just background filler that Brubaker wanted to show of those times that Steve was lost in a cycle between? Did Brubaker want to write his own origin story of Steve Rogers because Rogers was going to be this important uber General after Siege?

[Doctor Juris]

and how does Reborn dovetail with Thor talking to Cap's ghost before turning off global communications to commemorate his fallen ally?

[jackolover]

and how does Reborn dovetail with Thor talking to Cap's ghost before turning off global communications to commemorate his fallen ally?

I don't know about anyone else, but that was a pretty powerful moment to me. I didn't think Cap knew Thor talked to him. But considering that Cap also must have made contact with Thomas Hollaway, maybe Cap DID speak to Thor and it was off panel, in the Reborn mini, too.

[vitruvian]

What is it about Reborn that made Steve Rogers remember all of Marvel Projects and Thomas Hollaways contributions, after Steve came back? Because in the last issue of Marvel Projects Steve and Matt Hawk deliver Matts mask and guns to Jason Hollaway, as a legacy of Thomas Hollaway . Did Cap see Thomas Hollaway during the Reborn Time jumps, so after he returned, he was compelled to recall those times and then make the pilgramage to Matt Hawk? Or is MP just background filler that Brubaker wanted to show of those times that Steve was lost in a cycle between? Did Brubaker want to write his own origin story of Steve Rogers because Rogers was going to be this important uber General after Siege?

I'd expect that bopping around through all the times of your own life for a good long while would bring up all kinds of memories you hadn't thought of for a long time.