Legalize drugs, then what?

[StoneGold]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

[Shellhead]

I assume that legalization would include sales tax. There might be a temptation to continue the illegal operation just to avoid sales tax. But I think that I would rather take my cash and invest it in some legal business. For example, new cars don't sell as well these days, so people are trying to make their older cars last longer. I would invest in an auto repair shop.

[DeadXMan]

I assume that legalization would include sales tax. There might be a temptation to continue the illegal operation just to avoid sales tax. But I think that I would rather take my cash and invest it in some legal business. For example, new cars don't sell as well these days, so people are trying to make their older cars last longer. I would invest in an auto repair shop.

hey gear head like the weed, too.

[StoneGold]

I assume that legalization would include sales tax. There might be a temptation to continue the illegal operation just to avoid sales tax. But I think that I would rather take my cash and invest it in some legal business. For example, new cars don't sell as well these days, so people are trying to make their older cars last longer. I would invest in an auto repair shop.

That doesn't really keep you in bitches and blow. Nor does it emphasize your particular talents. Not to mention, no one ever got rich fast managing a Pep Boys.

[DeadXMan]

That doesn't really keep you in bitches and blow. Nor does it emphasize your particular talents. Not to mention, no one ever got rich fast managing a Pep Boys.

what if we combined a repair shop with a brothel?

[StoneGold]

Possible. Although I don't know if the sex trade has quite the easy reach of drugs.

[OverMaster]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

Distribute pirated movies and TV shows. Now THAT will never be legalized.

[OverMaster]

Possible. Although I don't know if the sex trade has quite the easy reach of drugs.

People does not need to get into drugs in the first place, but everyone needs a piece of fruit every now and then.

[Slam_Bradley]

what if we combined a repair shop with a brothel?


They both involve lube jobs.

[OverMaster]

They both involve lube jobs.

And junk in the trunk.

[StoneGold]

Distribute pirated movies and TV shows. Now THAT will never be legalized.

Gah, I dunno how anyone makes money at that anymore. I mean, either than selling to the incredibly stupid, or poor enough to not be able to afford a decent internet connection, but rich enough to be able to afford a DVD player and bootleg movies.

Any pirate someone can sell me on the streets of Chinatown, I can download for myself, cut out the middleman.

[Paradox]

Eh, so they lose drugs. There's always gambling, prostitution and theft/robbery left.

[CSPDX]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

Racketeering, protection, prostitution, insurance fraud, quick change grifting...

There's a lot of other options if you're really into doing something off the books, but not many as easy as sitting on your ass all day getting baked.

[Paradox]

To be honest, the weed trade is quite a different type of dealing than, say, crack or coke. A lot less of the whole "criminal element" stuff. A good portion of weed dealers deal ONLY weed, whereas "any" drug dealers do sell weed, it's not where their money is.

[StoneGold]

Eh, so they lose drugs. There's always gambling, prostitution and theft/robbery left.

Except they already have all that - I guess they could put more money into those areas, but it's not like it's going to really replace the enormous chunk of change being lost to a legalized drug trade.

[mikekerr3]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

MAny junkies hold regualr jobs, just like the squares, since most of the popular drugs wuould be dirt cheap even with a couple of hundred percent taxation A minimum wage job . patr-time would keep a junkie satisfied.

Drug realted thefts would go way down when It' costs less the feed a heroin addiction than a nicotine one.

[mikekerr3]

That doesn't really keep you in bitches and blow. Nor does it emphasize your particular talents. Not to mention, no one ever got rich fast managing a Pep Boys.

Nobody ever got rich by being a junkie, the dealers would be SOL though.

[StoneGold]

Nobody ever got rich by being a junkie, the dealers would be SOL though.

This seems to be a bit of a common mistake - perhaps my fault for not clarifying. I'm not talking about junkies. I'm talking about drug kingpins. What are they going to do when you take a significant chunk out of their criminal empire?

[OverMaster]

This seems to be a bit of a common mistake - perhaps my fault for not clarifying. I'm not talking about junkies. I'm talking about drug kingpins. What are they going to do when you take a significant chunk out of their criminal empire?

Well, with already built power, connections and influences, it is easier to move into other venues. The smaller the dealer, the harder it would be for them to adapt.

[mikekerr3]

This seems to be a bit of a common mistake - perhaps my fault for not clarifying. I'm not talking about junkies. I'm talking about drug kingpins. What are they going to do when you take a significant chunk out of their criminal empire?

The One in South/central America will be running like hell, the armies that thier money could buy would evaporate with the lost income, and payback from the local governments would be a bitch, there are a lot of blood debts that would get collected in places like Columbia and Mexico

In the US they would have to try to muscle into the existing crime rings or just fade away, that's what happened after prohibition, but without the drug money they have a lot less power.

[Charles RB]

Eh, so they lose drugs. There's always gambling, prostitution and theft/robbery left.

Why even lose drugs? Keep them cheaper than the legal brand, and people will still buy it; pimps still prospered even after Amsterdam legalised prostitution.

And they could always use their money to get onto a company's board and make even more money while menacing all the other shareholders, the yakuza like doing that one.

[OverMaster]

The One in South/central America will be running like hell, the armies that thier money could buy would evaporate with the lost income, and payback from the local governments would be a bitch, there are a lot of blood debts that would get collected in places like Columbia and Mexico.

I guess selling more to other countries where the prohibition is still in effect might work to some degree.

[Paradox]

Charles RB wonders:

Why even lose drugs? Keep them cheaper than the legal brand, and people will still buy it; pimps still prospered even after Amsterdam legalised prostitution.

Doesn't really work that way with drugs, at least not in the States. The minute Prohibition was over, the Mob had to move on to other things. Legal manufacturing is almost always going to outprice and outdistribute smuggling. Plus the general populace is going to trust government regulated things more. The only angle crime could work to outprice would be to steal and resell the legal stuff so it's 100% profit.

[StoneGold]

Doesn't really work that way with drugs, at least not in the States. The minute Prohibition was over, the Mob had to move on to other things. Legal manufacturing is almost always going to outprice and outdistribute smuggling. Plus the general populace is going to trust government regulated things more. The only angle crime could work to outprice would be to steal and resell the legal stuff so it's 100% profit.

Basically. There's still profit in bootlegging, but not the same, and more in bulk. A couple of cases of booze falls off the shipment kind of thing.

[dupont2005]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

I don't think simply legalizing it would put the cartels and cooks out of business overnight. They might have to drop their prices a bit but the profit margin on that stuff is wide enough to survive it.

[carabas]

Just start pouring money in a lobby to prohibit tobacco completely.

[dupont2005]

Doesn't really work that way with drugs, at least not in the States. The minute Prohibition was over, the Mob had to move on to other things. Legal manufacturing is almost always going to outprice and outdistribute smuggling. Plus the general populace is going to trust government regulated things more. The only angle crime could work to outprice would be to steal and resell the legal stuff so it's 100% profit.

Mexican and Columbian farmers mass producing the stuff in tents for a dollar a day could outprice men with labcoats and degrees manufacturing the stuff in Phizer labs I imagine.

[jesse_custer]

Why even lose drugs? Keep them cheaper than the legal brand, and people will still buy it

But your product has to be up to snuff. Those with weaker products will fall to the wayside.

[G. Wayne]

Racketeering, protection, prostitution, insurance fraud, quick change grifting...

There's a lot of other options if you're really into doing something off the books, but not many as easy as sitting on your ass all day getting baked.

And politics. Or more of a focus on it, anyway.

[Joe Acro]

There would probably be a rise in stealing and selling cars in parts.

[clayholio]

This seems to be a bit of a common mistake - perhaps my fault for not clarifying. I'm not talking about junkies. I'm talking about drug kingpins. What are they going to do when you take a significant chunk out of their criminal empire?

I assume they'd just go back to school and train for a new career, just like everyone else!

[mikekerr3]

Doesn't really work that way with drugs, at least not in the States. The minute Prohibition was over, the Mob had to move on to other things. Legal manufacturing is almost always going to outprice and outdistribute smuggling. Plus the general populace is going to trust government regulated things more. The only angle crime could work to outprice would be to steal and resell the legal stuff so it's 100% profit.

Heroin would be incredibly cheap, as would cocaine, the production cost are somewhere in the vicinity of Aspirins from what i've read. The huge profit magins would be gone as would the megabucks they produce from people trying to feed a very expensive habit.

I' don't think someone trying to support a five buck a day habit is as dangerous to society as someone who needs a thousand a day

[Charles RB]

Doesn't really work that way with drugs, at least not in the States. The minute Prohibition was over, the Mob had to move on to other things.

Didn't some of them just switch to doing it as "legit" business? Nothing stopping drug cartels becoming McCartel Inc and just fiddling on their taxes.

[Spike-X]

Racketeering, protection, prostitution, insurance fraud, quick change grifting...

There's a lot of other options if you're really into doing something off the books, but not many as easy as sitting on your ass all day getting baked.
The ones "sitting on their ass all day getting baked" aren't the ones making serious cash.

BELIEVE ME.

[mikekerr3]

Didn't some of them just switch to doing it as "legit" business? Nothing stopping drug cartels becoming McCartel Inc and just fiddling on their taxes.

The cutthroats that run real businesses would eat them like Goldfish in a shark tank, having most of their profits disappear would mean that many of their favorite tactics won't work anymore.

[Mac Danny]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

You Legalize Marijuana but not other narcotics. They'll be fine, there is still prostitution, gambling, human trafficking, and protection.

Also plenty of construction jobs to get paid for and not do.

They will be fine. We'll be screwed because Weed will be more expensive.

[fly on the wall]

MAny junkies hold regualr jobs, just like the squares, since most of the popular drugs wuould be dirt cheap even with a couple of hundred percent taxation A minimum wage job . patr-time would keep a junkie satisfied.

Drug realted thefts would go way down when It' costs less the feed a heroin addiction than a nicotine one.

It would surprise me if the government would sell heroin cheaper than cigarettes. And junkies need more and more heroin as time goes on, or so I've heard.

[Charles RB]

The cutthroats that run real businesses would eat them like Goldfish in a shark tank

Why? Drug cartel runners are cutthroats with business sense too. That's how they keep running cartels - in business, rivals just want to take your profits, not kill you.

[carabas]

Heroin would be incredibly cheap, as would cocaine, the production cost are somewhere in the vicinity of Aspirins from what i've read. The huge profit magins would be gone as would the megabucks they produce from people trying to feed a very expensive habit.Production cost and purchase price are not really linked in the pharmaceutical sector. Drugs will generally cost what people will pay. Especially non-vital stuff and recreational stuff. And hard drugs? You really think the companies won't gauge the price on those?

[Lasko8734]

And junk in the trunk.

And those beloved rimjobs :smile:

[StoneGold]

Production cost and purchase price are not really linked in the pharmaceutical sector. Drugs will generally cost what people will pay. Especially non-vital stuff and recreational stuff. And hard drugs? You really think the companies won't gauge the price on those?

It's not so much the companies, as the government doing the taxing, like the cigarettes. The question then being what the cigarette smuggling business is doing.

[dupont2005]

It's not so much the companies, as the government doing the taxing, like the cigarettes. The question then being what the cigarette smuggling business is doing.

They would be smuggling a whole lot more cigarettes if that cargo space that carries $5 worth of tobacco couldn't hold $1,000 worth of coke instead.

[StoneGold]

They would be smuggling a whole lot more cigarettes if that cargo space that carries $5 worth of tobacco couldn't hold $1,000 worth of coke instead.

Part of the reason it costs that much though is because of the risk involved. If you can buy the stuff legally at 7-Eleven, it removes a good chunk of the risk factor.

[Nightstar1441]

Part of the reason it costs that much though is because of the risk involved. If you can buy the stuff legally at 7-Eleven, it removes a good chunk of the risk factor.

Certain drugs will never be legalized due to the violent behavoir associated with it.

That said - I am still baffled why marajuana us not legal - it is the US' largest cash crop, less dangerous than alchohol and could be a windfall for the economy as well as new jobs and regulation.

[Slugger]

Legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of it. It's a multi multi billion dollar in BC alone.

And I'm not bias, I've never smoked mj in my life.

[mikekerr3]

You Legalize Marijuana but not other narcotics. They'll be fine, there is still prostitution, gambling, human trafficking, and protection.

Also plenty of construction jobs to get paid for and not do.

They will be fine. We'll be screwed because Weed will be more expensive.

When they start growing it commercial, good weed will be grown cheaper than tobacco. Tobacco is HARD to grow

[mikekerr3]

It would surprise me if the government would sell heroin cheaper than cigarettes. And junkies need more and more heroin as time goes on, or so I've heard.

Interpol said a couple of years ago that , even counting the costs due to it being criminal a Kilo of PURE heroin costs less that 30 dollars to produce, everything abouth that is profit, That much heroin will keep the hardest hit junkie in heaven for a very very long time.

I take prescription Morphine and it is very inexpensive and that price includes all the special handling required for a scheduled drug and profits

[mikekerr3]

Why? Drug cartel runners are cutthroats with business sense too. That's how they keep running cartels - in business, rivals just want to take your profits, not kill you.

When the money that give them the ability to get away with killing drys up that method is suicidal. That's why bootleggers didn't go into the whiskey business.

[dupont2005]

Part of the reason it costs that much though is because of the risk involved. If you can buy the stuff legally at 7-Eleven, it removes a good chunk of the risk factor.

Yeah, but even if it were legal it would still be worth smuggling. People do still smuggle cigarettes and tequila. Not to mention prescription meds.

[mikekerr3]

Production cost and purchase price are not really linked in the pharmaceutical sector. Drugs will generally cost what people will pay. Especially non-vital stuff and recreational stuff. And hard drugs? You really think the companies won't gauge the price on those?

They don't now, most of the "hard drugs" are dirt cheap. And since they can't be patented, Generics would level the playing field fast.

[mikekerr3]

Yeah, but even if it were legal it would still be worth smuggling. People do still smuggle cigarettes and tequila. Not to mention prescription meds.

But the huge profits would be gone, those profits are what are tearing out much of Central and South America. There might be a little smuggling but why would people take the risk on any large scale

[dupont2005]

When the money that give them the ability to get away with killing drys up that method is suicidal. That's why bootleggers didn't go into the whiskey business.

I believe the liquor license is why they didn't. Bootleggers founded the first luxury casinos in Vegas and have infiltrated many legitimate trades. Import/export, taxi cabs, restaurants, unions, casino's, nightclubs, the garment industry, real estate, vending machines, pornography, and so on. Of course they continue to employ shady tactice, but they are not foreign to legitimate business. In some areas you HAVE to be a gangster to have a vending machine to this day.

[howyadoin]

When they start growing it commercial, good weed will be grown cheaper than tobacco. Tobacco is HARD to growThat's a pretty good point. A guy I know did a few hours of research online and within a couple months was growing some extremely potent pot at home. The guy had no prior experience growing pot, or any other kind of horticulture for that matter.

[dupont2005]

But the huge profits would be gone, those profits are what are tearing out much of Central and South America. There might be a little smuggling but why would people take the risk on any large scale

Why do people smuggle prescriptions and cigarettes and alcohol? Bootleg purses and watches?

[HotDawgJohnny]

Legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of it. It's a multi multi billion dollar in BC alone.



this seems like the best action. Too much is spent on fighting against it. The best thing to do is treat it like tobacco, make people pay and arm and leg for it

[Charles RB]

When the money that give them the ability to get away with killing drys up that method is suicidal.

Organised crime regularly goes semi-legit. It's not something they lack the skills to do.

[mikekerr3]

Why do people smuggle prescriptions and cigarettes and alcohol? Bootleg purses and watches?


Too make a fewpercent off the top, but if you notice those operations don't cause wars on the street, There will be some smuggling on the margins but the huge money will be long gone.

[carabas]

Certain drugs will never be legalized due to the violent behavoir associated with it.Well, it was a hypothetical question. Canabis isn't getting legalised this decade either. Not in America anyway.

[mikekerr3]

Organised crime regularly goes semi-legit. It's not something they lack the skills to do.

If they go semi-legit then they are far less dangerous, and with the booze and gambling businesses they ended up getting clobbered by the fully legit.

[mikekerr3]

Certain drugs will never be legalized due to the violent behavoir associated with it.



That didn't stop them from legalizing alcohol did it?

[StoneGold]

Well, it was a hypothetical question. Canabis isn't getting legalised this decade either. Not in America anyway.

It's already all but legal where I am. Doesn't take much to go into a store and buy some.

[dupont2005]

Too make a fewpercent off the top, but if you notice those operations don't cause wars on the street, There will be some smuggling on the margins but the huge money will be long gone.

You really have no idea how much bootlegged and smuggled shit gets into American stores, or how dangerous it could be to muscle in on someone else's territory. Smuggling will never stop, but the most profitable products get smuggled first, and it's a dangerous game no matter if you smuggle cocaine or fake Nikes.

[Pro]

That's a pretty good point. A guy I know did a few hours of research online and within a couple months was growing some extremely potent pot at home. The guy had no prior experience growing pot, or any other kind of horticulture for that matter.

They don't call it weed for nothing. The stuff'll grow anywhere where they get water and sunlight. All you need to do is make sure no one rips your precious plants from the ground before you get a chance to smoke them.

[dupont2005]

If they go semi-legit then they are far less dangerous, and with the booze and gambling businesses they ended up getting clobbered by the fully legit.

I don't think they did. It's been less than 20 years since the mob got ran out of vegas. They are still doing fine in Atlantic City. I imagine Reno, indian casino's, and cruiseliners have a good amount of organized crime within as well. Legitimate businessmen did not run the mob out of vegas either, the FBI did. Criminals flourished in vegas for 40 years, and it takes a lot of money and manpower every year to keep them from taking Vegas back.

[Nightstar1441]

That didn't stop them from legalizing alcohol did it?

They had better lobbyists in congress :smile:

[Paradox]

dupont2005 missed part:

Mexican and Columbian farmers mass producing the stuff in tents for a dollar a day could outprice men with labcoats and degrees manufacturing the stuff in Phizer labs I imagine.

In those cases it's not the manufacturing that's the problem, it's the distribution of smuggling where the cost in resources comes.

[jhota]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?

not sure what qualifies as an "average" kingpin. some are considered to have net worths in the billions of dollars. Amado Fuentes was probably worth around $25 billion when he died.

so, if i'm worth a billion dollars, it brings into question the composition of my assets. how much is cash, how much property, how much unsold product. it seems a drug lord would have more cash on hand than a legal business owner, as he doesn't have above-board access to legal sources of equity capital or debt capital.

most drug lord's property is fairly illiquid, i would think (though the aforementioned Fuentes did own almost 30 Boeing jumbo jets - he could have started an airline). the value of unsold product would probably plummet. so it's down to cash.

i'd use on-hand cash to diversify into legal businesses through stock purchases and other forms of investment. the giant drug companies would probably be able to lock me out of the legal drug market, so i'd dump my production facilities and unsold product for whatever i could get. probably hold onto any associated farmland, though. it'll still be good for later sale or even lease.

any nice properties (mansions, etc.), i'd investigate turning into vacation or holiday hire locations.

but if i was a drug lord, i'd probably have been investing in legal businesses all along anyway.

[Paradox]

mikekerr3 goes for the cash crop:

When they start growing it commercial, good weed will be grown cheaper than tobacco. Tobacco is HARD to grow

Got that right. Marijuana is one of the heartiest, most widespread plants on the planet.

[Slugger]

Got that right. Marijuana is one of the heartiest, most widespread plants on the planet.

Hemp is possibly the most productive plant on the planet.

[Paradox]

Yeah, that's why Dupont hates it.

BUY OUR NYLON ROPE, DAMMIT!

[howyadoin]

Got that right. Marijuana is one of the heartiest, most widespread plants on the planet.I'm assuming you mean "hardiest".

[mikekerr3]

Yeah, that's why Dupont hates it.

BUY OUR NYLON ROPE, DAMMIT!

Nobody, who had the choice would use Hemp instead of Nylon for anything important. That stuff is high maintenance and it rots.

[mikekerr3]

I'm assuming you mean "hardiest".

In brownies, or fried chicken, his way would be correct:wink:

[Paradox]

howyadoin corrects correctly:

I'm assuming you mean "hardiest".

D'oh! Yes. I kept wondering why it looked so odd.

I'm old. Brain farts are way too commonplace.

[jdwrocks]

In those cases it's not the manufacturing that's the problem, it's the distribution of smuggling where the cost in resources comes.
This statement I agree with most. Meth is, or was, since the crackdown on pseudo-ephidrine The simplest drug to make. The Mexicans who are under no restriction, have profited huge in the last few years.

Hell, since the Feds crackdown on cold/sinus pills, the rural manufacture went to hell, but the Mexican product has never suffered.

[dupont2005]

In those cases it's not the manufacturing that's the problem, it's the distribution of smuggling where the cost in resources comes.

The cost is passed on to the smaller dealers. It costs nothing for the cartel to get dope from Mexico to Eagle Pass. Nothing or very little. One border worker paid off or threatened and how many trucks roll through every day? They are filthy rich, submarines, armed choppers, private armies. Drugs could drop in price 80% and they would still have a lucrative business.

[Paradox]

It's not just the money. You also lose large amounts of product to theft and police confiscation in the smuggling trade.

[Charles RB]

If they go semi-legit then they are far less dangerous

Most of the big organised crime syndicates are semi-legit "respectable businessmen". That clearly hasn't stopped the mafia, yakuza et al from being dangerous. It does, however, make a number of them less easy to beat because they can hide the illegal shit under their legal front organisations.

[Danvh3]

In brownies, or fried chicken, his way would be correct:wink:

Pot brownies are so 20th century. Now when you add ganja butter to mashed potatoes, melt it into some vegatables, and baste a turkey with it... you get a very Happy Danksgiving.

[Aziz Abbasi]

Say you're an average drug kingpin. Then, out of the blue, your merchandise is suddenly legalized. You have to make money somehow, and it's not like you're going to get a regular job like the squares, so what do you get into now?I'd register myself, get money for it with government support

Since Shellhead pointed it out; I'll have my accountants find a way to deduct taxes and let me have pay my people less than minimum wage, let's say by less than half. If I find one of my accountants robbing me I'd squash his head with my bear hands (pun intended)

I will sell more in Black Market (old habits die hard), this way I'll have my income from two sides. To think of the bribes to be payed for the safety this operation alone :BRRRR:

Maybe I build a pharmaceutical company to disguise Operation: Stinko