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Puma
12-16-2009, 08:13 AM
Now I am not a Christian, nor have I ever gotten bent out of shape when someone wishes me Merry Christmas, or the more encompassing 'Happy Holidays', but I'm frequently dismayed by the battle for "Christmas" waged by some in the US aimed toward retailers. The "Jesus is the reason for the Season" folks who want everyone to say "Merry Christmas" and not sully the holiday with other beliefs. That said, I was pleased to read this article today, it seems some folks actually get the point of the holiday:



Christian Group Launches New Attack on Christmas Commercialism
By AMY SULLIVAN / WASHINGTON Amy Sullivan / Washington Tue Dec 15, 3:10 am ET

If it's December, then there must be frost in the air, gingerbread in the oven, and ... right on time, Bill O'Reilly and the other defenders of Christmas bemoaning the prevalence of "Happy Holidays" - rather than "Merry Christmas" - greetings.

There's a war on Christmas, O'Reilly recently reminded viewers, driven by those who "loathe the baby Jesus." This season, a holiday-dÉcor company is marketing the CHRIST-mas Tree, a bushy artificial tree with a giant cross where the trunk should be. And the Colorado-based Focus on the Family is continuing its Stand for Christmas campaign to highlight the offenses of Christmas-denying retailers. The campaign was launched, according to its website, because "citizens across the nation were growing dissatisfied with the tendency of corporations to omit references to Christmas from holiday promotions." (See TIME's photoessay "Have a Very Ridiculous Christmas.")

But to a growing group of Christians, this focus on the commercial aspect of Christmas is itself the greatest threat to one of Christianity's holiest days. "It's the shopping, the going into debt, the worrying that if I don't spend enough money, someone will think I don't love them," says Portland pastor Rick McKinley. "Christians get all bent out of shape over the fact that someone didn't say 'Merry Christmas' when I walked into the store. But why are we expecting the store to tell our story? That's just ridiculous."

McKinley is one of the leaders of an effort to do away with the frenzied activity and extravagant gift-giving of a commercial Christmas. Through a savvy viral video and marketing effort, the so-called Advent Conspiracy movement has exploded. Hundreds of churches on four continents and in at least 17 countries have signed up to participate. The Advent Conspiracy video has been viewed more than a million times on YouTube and the movement boasts nearly 45,000 fans on Facebook. Baseball superstar Albert Pujols is a supporter - he spoke at a church event in St. Louis to endorse the effort. (See TIME's video "Bethlehem's Complicated Christmas.")

In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.

The idea for their own war on Christmas came to McKinley four years ago, when he was sitting around with some of his pastor friends and they realized they were all dreading Christmas. "None of us like Christmas," he says, adding, "That's sort of bad if you're a pastor." Instead of helping their congregations focus on the season of Advent and prepare to celebrate the birth of Christ, the pastors found themselves competing with a secular consumerism that made December the hardest time to make their message heard.

So McKinley and his friends decided to try a radical experiment. They urged congregants to spend less on presents for friends and family, and to consider donating some of the money they saved as a result. At first, church members weren't quite sure how to react. "Some people were terrified," remembers McKinley. "They said, 'My gosh, you're ruining Christmas. What do we tell our kids?'" The pastors had to reassure people that they weren't advocating a Grinchy no-gifts kind of Christmas, but rather one in which people spent a little less and thought a little more, expressing their love through something more meaningful than a gift card. Once church members adjusted to this new conception of Christmas, they found that they loved it. Many, in fact, seemed relieved to be given permission to slow down and buy less. (Read "A Brief History of 'The War on Christmas'")

In many ways, the Advent Conspiracy movement has appropriated some of the traditional arguments of the conservative Christians who see themselves as defenders of Christmas. A popular rallying cry of the foot soldiers in the war on Christmas is, "Jesus is the reason for the season." Often, however, it seems that being able to score a half-price Nintendo DSi and a "Merry Christmas" from the checkout clerk is the real prize. The Religious Right has spent decades casting secular culture as the enemy. And yet instead of critiquing the values of the consumer marketplace, many conservative Christians have embraced it as the battleground they seek to reclaim.

A movement like the Advent Conspiracy is countercultural on two fronts - not just fighting the secular idea that Christmas is a month-long shopping and decorating ritual, but the powerful conservative notion that the holiday requires acknowledgement from the nation's retailers to be truly meaningful. It's not easy, says one youth pastor whose church is part of the Advent Conspiracy. "When you start jacking with people's idea of what Christmas is and you start to go against this $450 billion machine of materialism and consumerism, it really messes with people," he explains. "It takes a lot of patience to say there's a different way - Christmas doesn't have to be like this."

(See TIME's Holiday Gift Guide 2009)

View this article on Time.com

Charles RB
12-16-2009, 08:49 AM
Now that makes more sense.

Also:


This season, a holiday-dÉcor company is marketing the CHRIST-mas Tree, a bushy artificial tree with a giant cross where the trunk should be.

This week's Judge Dredd has the Christmas toy "Little Juvie Jesus" - "He cries! He prays! He bleeds realistic blood from five stigmata wounds!" - and I thought this was a humorous exaggeration. Now I'm worried it was a prophecy.

Typo Lad
12-16-2009, 08:49 AM
I do not know this man, or how he stands on any other issues, but I would like to shake his hand.

I may rip this idea off for my own synagogue...

Michael P
12-16-2009, 08:50 AM
This week's Judge Dredd has the Christmas toy "Little Juvie Jesus" - "He cries! He prays! He bleeds realistic blood from five stigmata wounds!" - and I thought this was a humorous exaggeration. Now I'm worried it was a prophecy.That sounds like it would be more appropriate for Easter.

Charles RB
12-16-2009, 09:57 AM
That sounds like it would be more appropriate for Easter.

Yeah, but because it was at Christmas they could have the doll stolen by two crooks called Mary and Joey, who hide out in a barn for the night. And if they weren't in a barn, you couldn't have three animal-like mutant terrorists* hiding there as well. These are serious considerations for a writer, along with how to turn frankincence into a villain's name and get a pun in.


* "Plan To Kill Norms: 1. Kill norms. 2. Kill more norms." Hey, makes more sense than Magneto's...

Winslow
12-16-2009, 10:12 AM
I do not know this man, or how he stands on any other issues, but I would like to shake his hand.

I may rip this idea off for my own synagogue...

You might get some resistance to celebrating Christmas at your synagogue. :wink:

Gryphon
12-16-2009, 11:14 AM
this is refreshing to hear

Fenris
12-16-2009, 12:57 PM
That is pretty cool; it's the sort of thing we need to be doing.

Thank you, Puma!

õ
Now we just need more of it!

Acecool
12-16-2009, 03:28 PM
I was going to post the same thing. Good job.

Finally, moralist who actually make some sense.

Donald M.
12-16-2009, 04:17 PM
This is actually a really cool idea and points to something I genuinely hadn't noticed, that inherent in the complaints of the usual gang of Conservative idiots about retailers using Happy Holidays in place of Merry Christmas is the idea that sales and shopping and extravagant gifts are an important part of the holiday.

Anyone who honestly cares about the true meaning of Christmas wouldn't care about what retailers do or don't do in relation to the holiday.

Spike-X
12-16-2009, 05:51 PM
Anyone who honestly cares about the true meaning of Christmas wouldn't care about what retailers do or don't do in relation to the holiday.

"B-but...my beliefs aren't being constantly reinforced every time I step into a building that has nothing to do with them! That's DISCRIMINAYSHUN!!!11"

Matt
12-16-2009, 05:59 PM
I have to side with Donald M on this one; people can celebrate the season any way they want.

If that involves mass consumerism and gorging themselves silly ... so be it, it's their choice.

If that involves other spending the season praying, chanting, singing or anything else ... so be it, it's their choice.

What isn't cool is one group trying to tell everyone else how they should celebrate what has ended up being a pretty universal holiday.

Kevin M.
12-16-2009, 06:23 PM
I have to side with Donald M on this one; people can celebrate the season any way they want..


Pretty much how I feel about the whole thing.

Legato
12-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Pretty much how I feel about the whole thing.

Same here. You do your thing and I do mine.

giovedi
12-17-2009, 07:12 AM
Let's just make Festivus (http://www.festivusbook.com/) a reality.

Acecool
12-17-2009, 05:15 PM
Let's just make Festivus (http://www.festivusbook.com/) a reality.

Some people actually have.

http://www.festivusbook.com/

Paradox
12-17-2009, 09:41 PM
I usually wish people Have a Happy Mid-Winter Festival of Your Choice.

I may start wishing them a Merry Only Thing Keeping Our Economy Running Greed Day, though. :tongue:

giovedi
12-18-2009, 06:13 AM
Some people actually have.

http://www.festivusbook.com/

lol That's same same link I liked to in my post, silly

fly on the wall
12-22-2009, 01:32 PM
Sure, everyone can celebrate the season in anyway they want, but it's still funny when Christmas-happy capatilists go out of their way to avoid saying Christmas. When I see a store or a TV show carefully dissecting Christmas out of the Holiday Season it makes giggle. Keep up the good work boys.

It reminds that Irving Berlin (incedentally, a non-Christian) who wrote the song "White Christmas" also wrote the song "Happy Holidays" which made no refference to Christmas or any other particular holiday. God help me I like "Happy Holidays" better than "White Chrismas". Happy Holidays is pure joy, White Christmas is kind of whiney in comparison. Boo Hoo Hoo! It doesn't snow in Los Angeles.

Also, I like to think of the fun of offending people by wishing them Merry Christmas. ( Except for Jews, of course, they've been through enough.) But for Atheists, Wiccans and other Non-Jewish Non-Christians have a very Merry Christmas and please obsess on the first five letters of the word 'Christmas' whenever you see or hear it.

Do whatever you can to prevent Christmas displays on public property, I love it when they do that, it's so hardcore, and it's always big news. Every year at Christmas time we all are reminded how irritating the holiday is for non-Christians. It's a holiday tradition. It's fun to fight about Christianity at Christmas, which either side you are fighting on, or if you are like me and you keep jumping back and forth between the sides. It's all good, like people are constantly saying on this message-board.

It's the most wonderful time of the year to annoy thin-skinned people on both sides of the argument.

Season's Gratings everybody.

Spike-X
12-22-2009, 06:34 PM
Merry Christmas, Fly.

Or Happy Holidays. Whichever one irritates you more at the time.


*big cheesy grin*

Pól Rua
12-22-2009, 06:37 PM
Season's Gratings everybody.

Ow! That man grated me! That fly-man!

Seasons Bleatings, flysie!

Spike-X
12-22-2009, 06:41 PM
It seems that even Google has become part of the insidious War On Christmas™!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/Googlewaronxmas.jpg

Fuck Bill O'Reilly. He probably uses Bing, anyway.

Donald M.
12-22-2009, 06:46 PM
I usually wish people Have a Happy Mid-Winter Festival of Your Choice.

I may start wishing them a Merry Only Thing Keeping Our Economy Running Greed Day, though. :tongue:

Too long and unwieldy. I just refer to it as Greedmas, myself.

Matt
12-22-2009, 06:56 PM
Happy Everyone Gets Pissed and Argues Day

howyadoin
12-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Happy Everyone Gets Pissed and Argues DaySo, same as every other day?

AdamYJ
12-22-2009, 07:26 PM
The development of Christmas was largely marketing, anyway. People had been having Christmas celebrations for years before they actually were Christmas celebrations. Usually they were Winter Solstice festivals. The church tried to outlaw them for years until it got fed up and decided that Christ was born on Dec. 25 and just adopted the whole thing as its own. They have a history of doing that. Truth is, they had no idea when Christ was born and really didn't think it was a big deal until they needed a holiday (the death and ressurection was the bigger deal, hence Easter). Nowadays, through the study of history and astronomical records, historians say the most likely time for Jeshua bar Joseph (aka Jesus Christ) to be born was mid-May.

People do tend to get a little hung up on the commercial aspect. In fact, other than the religious nuts, I find there are two types of people who really dislike Christmas: 1) The cycnics, who see it all as greed and commercialism, and 2) the super-idealists, who think having a day and season devoted to love, kindness, hope, faith and generosity is stupid because we should be like that all the time anyway. For the former, I think they need to look inward and find their own meaning for the holiday, and for the latter I just want to remind them that sometimes people need reminders.

Oh, and for the record, I usually use "Happy Holidays". That's largely because I actually do want people to be happy from the day after Thanksgiving until January 2. But that's me.

Perry Holley
12-23-2009, 04:29 AM
Also, I like to think of the fun of offending people by wishing them Merry Christmas. ( Except for Jews, of course, they've been through enough.) But for Atheists, Wiccans and other Non-Jewish Non-Christians have a very Merry Christmas and please obsess on the first five letters of the word 'Christmas' whenever you see or hear it.What did Chris do to piss everyone off?

Puma
12-23-2009, 05:04 AM
What did Chris do to piss everyone off?

No matter the occasion, all he brings is fish and watered down wine.

Michael P
12-23-2009, 05:09 AM
No matter the occasion, all he brings is fish and watered down wine.

Always has enough for everybody, though.

Puma
12-23-2009, 05:19 AM
Always has enough for everybody, though.

True.





.

Pól Rua
12-23-2009, 05:25 AM
What did Chris do to piss everyone off?

Shot a man in Reno.
Then healed him up.

Weird guy.

contreras9977
12-23-2009, 08:19 AM
The "Jesus is the reason for the Season" folks who want everyone to say "Merry Christmas" and not sully the holiday with other beliefs.


You should ask these people to point out where exactly does it say in the bible that Jesus was born on Dec 25th.

Donald M.
12-23-2009, 08:38 AM
You should ask these people to point out where exactly does it say in the bible that Jesus was born on Dec 25th.

Also, ask them what they know about Saturnalia.

dupersuper
12-23-2009, 11:10 PM
Also, ask them what they know about Saturnalia.

Also, ask them for mathematical proof for string theory. You might as well; you'll get about the same level of response on either topic.