When did WW lose her immortality?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

And why didn´t I get the memo?

Was it that Circe "You´ll be human when you change to Diana Prince" thing?

[ScottyQuick]

I think it was in Luke's run, because he had to de-Goddify her and Byrne said she'd die if that happened, so he was like "Yup, she'll die ... OF OLD AGE!"

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think it was in Luke's run, because he had to de-Goddify her and Byrne said she'd die if that happened, so he was like "Yup, she'll die ... OF OLD AGE!"

Old age-Old age, or Superman "I´m 2,000 000 years old and grey haired!" Old age?

[bfrank]

Old age-Old age, or Superman "I´m 2,000 000 years old and grey haired!" Old age?

See WW of Earth 22.....

[Seant]

It was mentioned in the Perez run, during the War of the Gods storyline, that Diana gave up immortality when she left the island. Not sure of the specific issue. Although I don't know why no one mentioned it when Diana first left Paradise Island-- you'd think it would be a big deal.

It was reinforced again during the Byrne run, when Morgan LeFay captured what she thought were a collection of immortals, including Diana. Since, unknown to Morgan, Diana was no longer immortal, the spell she was attempting to cast didn't work properly.

[TripleX]

It was mentioned in the Perez run, during the War of the Gods storyline, that Diana gave up immortality when she left the island. Not sure of the specific issue. Although I don't know why no one mentioned it when Diana first left Paradise Island-- you'd think it would be a big deal.

It was reinforced again during the Byrne run, when Morgan LeFay captured what she thought were a collection of immortals, including Diana. Since, unknown to Morgan, Diana was no longer immortal, the spell she was attempting to cast didn't work properly.

I don't get it. Immortality is a coveted superpower all on it's own, why give her a downgrade? Even the Bana are immortal now, she's the only Amazon that's not. Why?

If someone says it's in order to make her appear more human I'll have an effin conniption. lol

[ShaunN]

This is interesting, since I have been quite unclear on this for some time. In some of her appearances, Diana clearly is immortal - for example, in Ross' "Kingdom Come" (which, I admit, is not canon) Diana is immortal until she becomes pregnant.

I think that I have all of the Perez stories and I don't recall it ever being mentioned that she loses her immortality. Indeed, I agree that this would and should have been a pretty big deal if it was a consequence of her leaving the island. Indeed, in the Perez run, if anything, my impression is that it reinforces the idea that she is immortal - it is there that it is first established that she has the power to regenerate herself through contact with the Earth, a power that no other Amazon would have and that would, presumably, mean that she can renew herself.

Finally, if Diana is not immortal, then I agree this is a problem that needs to be "fixed". It makes little sense - she is the one Amazon who is, in a sense, a "golem" - making her immortal should not be difficult to justify. Also, as someone pointed out, if the Bana are immortal now, then why wouldn't Diana also be immortal?

[Franklin]

Finally, if Diana is not immortal, then I agree this is a problem that needs to be "fixed". It makes little sense - she is the one Amazon who is, in a sense, a "golem" - making her immortal should not be difficult to justify.

Is this really right, though? Weren't the bodies of all the original Amazons remade and had their souls dumped into them?



Also, as someone pointed out, if the Bana are immortal now, then why wouldn't Diana also be immortal?

Well, the Bana are immortal because of the deal they made with Circe when they attacked the island, not because they hang out on the island. Diana has yet to make that specific deal.

[ShaunN]

Is this really right, though? Weren't the bodies of all the original Amazons remade and had their souls dumped into them?




Well, the Bana are immortal because of the deal they made with Circe when they attacked the island, not because they hang out on the island. Diana has yet to make that specific deal.

Franklin, thanks for the points.I did not know that about the Bana. I would disagree a bit on the Amazon thing - the Amazons were created directly by the gods. I'm not sure that exactly how they were created is clear - as I recall, they are all seen as emerging from water after their souls are returned to earth. Still, it's an interesting point - are all of the Amazons essentially like Diana in principle, if not in the extent of their abilities? I believe that Diana is the only Amazon who can regenerate through her contact with the earth, and this ability is due to both/either her gifts from the gods and/or the fact that she, herself, is made of the earth.

Eliseu, why did you ask this question? The tone of the question seems to imply that something was said/done in a recent WW appearance that made it seem like she is not immortal. But I don't recall reading anything like that myself. Given my own interest in /confusion about this subject, I hope I would have spotted anything that clarifies it in recent issues. Is there something that happened recently that brought this topic to mind? Thanks.

Shaun

[Spiffy]

It was mentioned in the Perez run, during the War of the Gods storyline, that Diana gave up immortality when she left the island. Not sure of the specific issue. Although I don't know why no one mentioned it when Diana first left Paradise Island-- you'd think it would be a big deal.

It was reinforced again during the Byrne run, when Morgan LeFay captured what she thought were a collection of immortals, including Diana. Since, unknown to Morgan, Diana was no longer immortal, the spell she was attempting to cast didn't work properly.
Yeah, but for some reason I've gotten the impression that from Heinberg onward, she's been re-immortalized. Not "on panel" but as with a lot of Heinberg stuff it was just "done" that way--nothing was "undone" but it was just forgotten and not assumed anymore--and we're supposed to follow along.

Mostly I get this impression because her lack of immortality is never mentioned or addressed, nor is aging, or in most cases any kind of mortality with her.

[CarolStrick]

Since the mortality bit has been pretty much ignored through the years, and since we're operating in a different "age" than the Perez stories, I'd say that Diana is still immortal. After all, what reason could there be for revoking that?

[Gaelforce]

Latest canon mention that I can think of says she's immortal.

Justice League 0 when there's the flash forward and she is giving up her immortality to marry someone. Can't give up what you don't have :)

[CarolStrick]

I'd never call JLanything "canon" when it comes to Wondie (or anyone), especially when they bring out Fifties-style chestnuts like that!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Eliseu, why did you ask this question? The tone of the question seems to imply that something was said/done in a recent WW appearance that made it seem like she is not immortal. But I don't recall reading anything like that myself. Given my own interest in /confusion about this subject, I hope I would have spotted anything that clarifies it in recent issues. Is there something that happened recently that brought this topic to mind? Thanks.

Shaun

Someone else mentioned it in another thread and it raised my eyebrow because I don´t recall it ever being brought up in a WW issue in the last couple years.

[AaronJ]

It seems totally unclear. As far as I'm concerned, she's immortal.

Not to mention that she spent 1,000 years in Asgard.

[bfrank]

If someone says it's in order to make her appear more human I'll have an effin conniption. lol

That was the original purpose I thought...


Since the mortality bit has been pretty much ignored through the years, and since we're operating in a different "age" than the Perez stories, I'd say that Diana is still immortal. After all, what reason could there be for revoking that?

With all the Amazons that have gone on and off the Island, even during the Perez years, I can't think of one valid reason....

If she has to lose her immortality I'd much rather go back to the idea that she sacrificed it to protect patriarch's world, as opposed to the somewhat sexist notions that she should lose it if she marries or gets pregnant......

[Hypestyle]

lose her immortality? whew, I thought you were talking about... something else.. :redface:

[JKCarrier]

The original version was that leaving the island would cause her to lose her immortality, which was why Hippolyta was so opposed to the idea in the first place (thus, Di had to disguise herself to enter the contest, etc.). I suppose it's a moot point, since comic book heroes are all effectively immortal anyway. :wink:

[MinaRho1]

The original version was that leaving the island would cause her to lose her immortality, which was why Hippolyta was so opposed to the idea in the first place (thus, Di had to disguise herself to enter the contest, etc.). I suppose it's a moot point, since comic book heroes are all effectively immortal anyway. :wink:

agreed. And its there when the writers want it. Its really up to them. That's the rub and benefit of ill-defined powers and boundaries. In some media she still is. I don't think TOO much about it. Like the "sisterhood with fire" power she has. It doesn't mean anything unless you want it to. And realistically, how often would it come up?

[AaronJ]

agreed. And its there when the writers want it. Its really up to them. That's the rub and benefit of ill-defined powers and boundaries. In some media she still is. I don't think TOO much about it. Like the "sisterhood with fire" power she has. It doesn't mean anything unless you want it to. And realistically, how often would it come up?

She was able to stop a nuclear meltdown, and to take a bath in molten steel. All because of her Sisterhood with Fire.

Rucka rocked.

[MinaRho1]

She was able to stop a nuclear meltdown, and to take a bath in molten steel. All because of her Sisterhood with Fire.

Rucka rocked.

It mattered because he wanted to specifically make it matter. Otherwise you could chalk it up to her invulnerability, power of the earth, regeneration. See what I mean with vague powers and magic?

And yes, Rucka was awesome.

[AaronJ]

It mattered because he wanted to specifically make it matter. Otherwise you could chalk it up to her invulnerability, power of the earth, regeneration. See what I mean with vague powers and magic?

And yes, Rucka was awesome.

I do see what you mean. And yes, Rucka was specifically showing her different powers as he went along. No question.

No offense to Gail, or Phil, or George, or anyone else: I loved Rucka's run more than anyone else's.

[Holy Spirit]

I pefer the idea of both a immortal Wonder Woman and Superman!:biggrin:

[MinaRho1]

I pefer the idea of both a immortal Wonder Woman and Superman!:biggrin:

agreed

And if I was an evil genius scientist I'd meld Gail, Rucka, Perez, and Phil into a artist/writing juggernaut.

[PabloD]

It seems to be something she loses and reclaims every few years. Not necessarily explicitly and/or on-panel, but rather because writers just appear to forget about it. If I had to guess, I'd say she's probably immortal in the eyes of current writers and/or editorial, if only because that'd probably contribute to DC's whole notion that Wonder Woman "isn't human" or whatever. So she's immortal when she's Wonder Woman, and becomes mortal when she transforms into Diana Prince.

[carabas]

It seems totally unclear. As far as I'm concerned, she's immortal.

Not to mention that she spent 1,000 years in Asgard.
Asgard is not on the mortal plane, it is one of the various afterlives. It probably has its own rules with regards to aging and how time flows.

[Tiberious]

It seems to be something she loses and reclaims every few years. Not necessarily explicitly and/or on-panel, but rather because writers just appear to forget about it. If I had to guess, I'd say she's probably immortal in the eyes of current writers and/or editorial, if only because that'd probably contribute to DC's whole notion that Wonder Woman "isn't human" or whatever. So she's immortal when she's Wonder Woman, and becomes mortal when she transforms into Diana Prince.

Diana Prince hasn't made an appearance in years. She was mentioned in WW:BN as a name. Is Circe's gift even still canon? Either way that has no effect on Diana's immortality.

[hellacre]

In my eyes she's immortal. And even if she ages say Themysicra's magic is what keeps her from aging ...then she should be very long lived as she is superhuman, and powered by the Gods and some kind of magic. Having sex or getting pregnant should not age her.Kingdom Come is what it is. Another universe. Supes is aging there too. But neither should gray that early in canon and should be seeing the next generations and mentoring them etc etc with raven black locks. :D

[TripleX]

That was the original purpose I thought....

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/trouble-man10/barfgif.gif

[AaronJ]

Asgard is not on the mortal plane, it is one of the various afterlives. It probably has its own rules with regards to aging and how time flows.

That's true. Good point. But it seems pretty clear that Diana doesn't age, and won't age. At least, it's clear to me.


Diana Prince hasn't made an appearance in years. She was mentioned in WW:BN as a name. Is Circe's gift even still canon? Either way that has no effect on Diana's immortality.

Gift? GIFT?!

[lariatofhestia]

That's true. Good point. But it seems pretty clear that Diana doesn't age, and won't age. At least, it's clear to me.



Gift? GIFT?!


My sentiments exactly!!! Gift my butt. LOL.

[Seant]

I don't get it. Every time the question of immortality has been brought up in Wonder Woman's book, it's been stated she gave it up; now, because it hasn't been mentioned recently, it's assumed she's immortal. Why?

It's one of the screw-ups of the Perez Wonder Woman. He was so busy explaining minutiae like how the gun got to Paradise Island, or how she didn't know English, that he forgot the bigger picture stuff like the rules governing the island. He didn't even mention she had forgone her immortality until years later, almost as an afterthought. I think all the confusion about her mortality is due to this oversight.

Why is it important? Otherwise, what's the big deal when she leaves the island in the first place? Her desire for purpose is so much more meaningful because of this sacrifice. It gives Diana a poignancy that differs from Superman and Batman, in that she chose her destiny at great personal cost to herself. It's also a great mythical story, much like the story of Achilles, in that she chose a glorious, if shorter life, over a long and dull existence on the island.

But hey, if people prefer to think of her mission as nothing more than getting an afterschool job at the mall...:smile:

[Franklin]

Franklin, thanks for the points.I did not know that about the Bana. I would disagree a bit on the Amazon thing - the Amazons were created directly by the gods. I'm not sure that exactly how they were created is clear - as I recall, they are all seen as emerging from water after their souls are returned to earth. Still, it's an interesting point - are all of the Amazons essentially like Diana in principle, if not in the extent of their abilities? I believe that Diana is the only Amazon who can regenerate through her contact with the earth, and this ability is due to both/either her gifts from the gods and/or the fact that she, herself, is made of the earth.

That's the way I'd like it to be - I can't remember, though, if all of the Amazons turned to dirt when the gods withdrew during Byrne's run? That would imply that they're all created from clay and given life in a process similar to Diana.

Of course, we could just ignore that...:smile:

[Vic Vega]

If leaving Paradise means becoming mortal than Polly and all the rest of the non-Bana became mortal when they set foot on Man's World in the Perez run.

Since the Bana cut a separate deal they are STILL immortal.

That's way too fiddily.

Who wants to keep track of who is immortal and who isn't?

I'd guess the current status quo is that they are all immortal. Diana is able to change back and forth (powered to unpowered).

[ShaunN]

Until this point is explicitly clarified in the current series, I am going to assume that Diana is immortal - as she should be!

RE:Diana turning into the mortal Diana Prince: I note that Gail has not used this particular idea in a while and I hope that it is gone. I remember that when Diana and Tom first visited Themyscira, she made the point to him that what she physically felt was different from what he could feel - an interesting point that is often overlooked when discussing invulnerable (or near invulnerable) superbeings. I note this because it was interesting for Diana to state this difference in their perspectives on the world when she could, presumably, just turn into mortal Diana Prince and experience the world in the same basic way as Tom. So that leads me to ask: has Circe's "gift" faded? (Personally, I hope so - I don't like the idea of the mortal Diana Prince at all).

[Tiberious]

That's true. Good point. But it seems pretty clear that Diana doesn't age, and won't age. At least, it's clear to me.



Gift? GIFT?!

Obviously its a gift since it could be turned off and on at Diana's choosing. If she didn't want it she obviously didn't have to use it. A curse would have been if it was completely out of Diana's control. Diana of volume three wanted to experience the fragility of a non-Goddess blessed Amazon body and Circe granted her that.

So yes...a gift.

[Tiberious]

Until this point is explicitly clarified in the current series, I am going to assume that Diana is immortal - as she should be!

RE:Diana turning into the mortal Diana Prince: I note that Gail has not used this particular idea in a while and I hope that it is gone. I remember that when Diana and Tom first visited Themyscira, she made the point to him that what she physically felt was different from what he could feel - an interesting point that is often overlooked when discussing invulnerable (or near invulnerable) superbeings. I note this because it was interesting for Diana to state this difference in their perspectives on the world when she could, presumably, just turn into mortal Diana Prince and experience the world in the same basic way as Tom. So that leads me to ask: has Circe's "gift" faded? (Personally, I hope so - I don't like the idea of the mortal Diana Prince at all).

There hasn't been one instance since the annual that even references the gift. I'm sure it faded or went the way of Diana Prince (who's passing breaks my heart).

[Seant]

There hasn't been one instance since the annual that even references the gift. I'm sure it faded or went the way of Diana Prince (who's passing breaks my heart).

Wasn't there a scene in WW #14 or 15, where Diana needed to get away from Captain Nazi so she could change into Wonder Woman? Not having her strength, she had to break through a particle board wall, or something.

[Phil Jimenez]

That's the way I'd like it to be - I can't remember, though, if all of the Amazons turned to dirt when the gods withdrew during Byrne's run? That would imply that they're all created from clay and given life in a process similar to Diana.

Of course, we could just ignore that...:smile:

In recounting the origins of the Amazons, Byrne showed us that all of the Amazons, not just Diana, were created from clay (well, riverbed mud!), and those shells were turned flesh and blood and animated by the souls from the the Womb of Gaea.

Thus, all of the Amazons were originally made of "clay," not just Diana -- in Byrne's run, anyway.

[Tiberious]

Wasn't there a scene in WW #14 or 15, where Diana needed to get away from Captain Nazi so she could change into Wonder Woman? Not having her strength, she had to break through a particle board wall, or something.

You are correct...I can't believe I forgot that scene since its one of my favorites. Wow I am off my game today.

Thank you Seant!

[knowwonder]

In recounting the origins of the Amazons, Byrne showed us that all of the Amazons, not just Diana, were created from clay (well, riverbed mud!), and those shells were turned flesh and blood and animated by the souls from the the Womb of Gaea.

Thus, all of the Amazons were originally made of "clay," not just Diana -- in Byrne's run, anyway.

They sprung from a lake in George's run and I thought it was heavily implied, if not stated out-right, they were made from the clay of the lakebed.

[Phil Jimenez]

They sprung from a lake in George's run and I thought it was heavily implied, if not stated out-right, they were made from the clay of the lakebed.

It was neither implied nor stated so, in George's run's run at least. The Amazons from mud wrinkle came during the Byrne run...

[knowwonder]

It was neither implied nor stated so, in George's run's run at least. The Amazons from mud wrinkle came during the Byrne run...

Really? In the very first issue, Volume 2, when Hippolyte is the first to surface, followed by Antiope in a Greecian lake?

I've ALWAYS read it as they were made from the clay of that very lake.........not the water or anything else.

Now I'm really curious: Where did everyone else think the bodies of the Amazons came from????

[Andrew NDB]

Until this point is explicitly clarified in the current series, I am going to assume that Diana is immortal - as she should be!

Why? What for?

[Phil Jimenez]

Really? In the very first issue, Volume 2, when Hippolyte is the first to surface, followed by Antiope in a Greecian lake?

I've ALWAYS read it as they were made from the clay of that very lake.........not the water or anything else.

Now I'm really curious: Where did everyone else think the bodies of the Amazons came from????

Someone can scan the actual page, but here are the captions covering the creation of the Amazons in the Perez run:

"A once tranquil lake bubbles with the soft breath of creation, until its surface bursts and she who is called Hippolyte becomes the first to rise and kiss Apollo's sun drenched skies. Beside her, her sister Antiope is born. And around her, thousands more re-embodied souls emerge, each drinking joyfully the breath of new life!"

"The waters churn anew, and still more children of the midwives are reborn!"

In terms of art, the "camera" never goes beneath the surface; no mud or clay is mentioned. We just see the Amazons rising from the lake, all naked and stuff...

...which, I'd guess, is where I thought they came from. Magical creatures rising miraculously from the water, flesh and blood, fully grown (and, I guess, I didn't need anything more than that).

[knowwonder]

Someone can scan the actual page, but here are the captions covering the creation of the Amazons in the Perez run:

"A once tranquil lake bubbles with the soft breath of creation, until its surface bursts and she who is called Hippolyte becomes the first tto rise and kiss Apollo's sun drenched skies. Beside her, her sister Antiope is born. And around her, thousands more re-embodied souls emerge, each drinking joyfully the beath of new life!"

"The waters churn anew, and still more children of the midwives are reborn!"

In terms of art, the "camera" never goes beneath the surface; no mud or clay is mentioned. We just see the Amazons rising from the lake, all naked and stuff.

...which, I'd guess, is where I thought they came from. Magical creatures rising miraculously from the water, flesh and blood, fully grown (and, I guess, I didn't need anything more than that).

*sigh* I love that scene! Hunh. That is so freakin' weird. Was there any mention Pre-Crisis of the Amazons all being made of clay? How did I make such a leap in my thinking...?

Oh, my goodness. I....I think I've ret-conned myself!!

[Phil Jimenez]

Oh, my goodness. I....I think I've ret-conned myself!!

I think I need to retcon myself -- as someone who can actually spell while writing on these damn boards! :wink:

[knowwonder]

Oh, wait--Phil! O/T for this thread, buuuuuuuut.....

Nothing's really been confirmed for us regarding specific content, but are you contractually able to make any contributions to #600?? You really must, you know. :biggrin:

(And I promise I won't tell anyone!!)

[Seant]

*sigh* I love that scene! Hunh. That is so freakin' weird. Was there any mention Pre-Crisis of the Amazons all being made of clay? How did I make such a leap in my thinking...?[/I]

Yeah-- we see Aphrodite shaping the Amazons out of clay, much like Hippolyte sculpted Diana, in WW #1.

[PabloD]

Diana Prince hasn't made an appearance in years. She was mentioned in WW:BN as a name.
The last time she appeared in the WW title was at the beginning of Rise of the Olympian, which was about a year ago, but Diana made reference to having a secret identity about four issues ago. We haven't seen or heard from "Diana Prince" since then, but Diana still lives in the same house, so I figure it can probably be assumed she still has the secret identity. We just don't see her in it much.

And the name thing was in Blackest Night, not Blackest Night: Wonder Woman.


Is Circe's gift even still canon?
No reason to think that it isn't.


Either way that has no effect on Diana's immortality.

Which is not at all what I said. I said current DC editorial seems (or at the very least seemed, up until recently) bent on pushing the idea that Wonder Woman is too far removed from the human experience to understand what it's like to be one of us, and for that reason she needed to "learn what it's like to be human" or somesuch nonsense. In that regard, I could see some of her "inhuman" physical traits, like the fact that she is (currently, at least) pretty much impervious to most forms of harm and fatigue, informing their decision to give Diana the ability to transform into a normal, powerless person. Immortality would be another trait that would separate Diana from "normal" people, another log in the fire that is the notion that Wonder Woman isn't human. So I could see editorial going for the idea.

[Spiffy]

Which is not at all what I said. I said current DC editorial seems (or at the very least seemed, up until recently) bent on pushing the idea that Wonder Woman is too far removed from the human experience to understand what it's like to be one of us, and for that reason she needed to "learn what it's like to be human" or somesuch nonsense. In that regard, I could see some of her "inhuman" physical traits, like the fact that she is (currently, at least) pretty much impervious to most forms of harm and fatigue, informing their decision to give Diana the ability to transform into a normal, powerless person. Immortality would be another trait that would separate Diana from "normal" people, another log in the fire that is the notion that Wonder Woman isn't human. So I could see editorial going for the idea.

"DC editorial thinks"?

Where do you get the impression that DC Editorial cares one way or the other?

I honestly doubt Dan Didio spends much time thinking about Wonder Woman, one way or the other, with the recent notable exception of the post card/issue 600 campaign.

[ShaunN]

Someone can scan the actual page, but here are the captions covering the creation of the Amazons in the Perez run:

"A once tranquil lake bubbles with the soft breath of creation, until its surface bursts and she who is called Hippolyte becomes the first to rise and kiss Apollo's sun drenched skies. Beside her, her sister Antiope is born. And around her, thousands more re-embodied souls emerge, each drinking joyfully the breath of new life!"

"The waters churn anew, and still more children of the midwives are reborn!"

In terms of art, the "camera" never goes beneath the surface; no mud or clay is mentioned. We just see the Amazons rising from the lake, all naked and stuff...

...which, I'd guess, is where I thought they came from. Magical creatures rising miraculously from the water, flesh and blood, fully grown (and, I guess, I didn't need anything more than that).

Yes, I've always assumed that the Amazons were made from the water of the lake, if made from any earthly substance at all. I did not buy WW during the Byrne run, so I was not aware that he made them all products of the earth.

[dupersuper]

This is interesting, since I have been quite unclear on this for some time. In some of her appearances, Diana clearly is immortal - for example, in Ross' "Kingdom Come" (which, I admit, is not canon) Diana is immortal until she becomes pregnant.


Was it stated she lost her immortality when she became pregnant?


It seems totally unclear. As far as I'm concerned, she's immortal.

Not to mention that she spent 1,000 years in Asgard.

True...maybe she had done something to annoy her fickle patron dieties during the Byrne story, and later got back in their good graces...?

[Major Comma]

Immortal Warrior?
Yes.
She just isnt The Goddess of Truth anymore.

[AaronJ]

True...maybe she had done something to annoy her fickle patron dieties during the Byrne story, and later got back in their good graces...?

I have no idea, honestly.

But I believe she is immortal, regardless.

And I never read Byrne.

[JKCarrier]

Was it stated she lost her immortality when she became pregnant?

It's implied...Batman figures out she's pregnant before she tells him, because he sees her hair is starting to go grey.

[Spiffy]

Immortal Warrior?
Yes.
She just isnt The Goddess of Truth anymore.
Seems like she was immortal before that, so I don't see why she wouldn't also be after it.

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

To confuse everyone: The Pre-Crisis Earth-Two Wonder Woman in INFINITY INC was established as mortal, but she aged verrrrrrrrrry slowly. She had a few gray streaks in her hair, and that was pretty much it.

[Seant]

Seems like she was immortal before that, so I don't see why she wouldn't also be after it.

Um-- except that Byrne, who made her a goddess, hinged a storyline on the fact that Diana wasn't immortal. Just sayin'.

[dupersuper]

It's implied...Batman figures out she's pregnant before she tells him, because he sees her hair is starting to go grey.

I thought it was because she "put on a few pounds for an immortal warrior"...I took the close up to represent a pregnant woman "glow".

[MinaRho1]

I thought it was because she "put on a few pounds for an immortal warrior"...I took the close up to represent a pregnant woman "glow".

I prefer this explaination MUCH better. I hate that Supe's supersperm smacked her so hard that her aging clock sped up. Seriously people?

[MinaRho1]

Okay, I swear I hadn't given this serious thought or commited any time to it. But I was laying in bed one night and it just came to me.

It's been said that Wonder Woman is physically perfect. Perfectly beautiful, unblemished, untouched by disease, mutations whatever.

But if you take that concept and see it through it has a few implications. If she's perfect to the molecular level, to her dna, she wouldn't age-- or at least not age like the rest of us. One of the major theories of aging is that when cells divide and replicate over the course of an entire lifetime, the replication becomes imperfect. DNA replicates just fine in a brand new baby. But over time it breaks down because the DNA isn't "perfect" to begin with. As years go by pieces are missing, things get overwritten. It's like making copies of copies over and over again on a crappy xerox machine. Over time the ending image is a VERY broken down version of the original.

If Diana's perfect, and her body functions perfectly- better than perfect, uber-optimal, then all that becomes a non-issue. That's why characters like her or Captain America or Wolverine wouldn't age. (not as we see it) Its not that immortality is one of their powers. They're not immortal. Their existing powers have certain effects on them.

If this sounds out there, I understand. But I think it makes perfect sense but I've been shot down before. I was once basically told I was a loser for informing an artist that Supergirl as a kryptonian shouldn't have freckles. Freckles are a result from sun-damage,and the body can't completely shield it's skin with pigment to protect itself from future sun-damage. Kryptonians are renewed and amped up by the sun. It seemed a perfectly reasonable observation to me.

Yes, I'm still bitter.

[nerites]

Wow - what a great explanation for her immortality through her own powers.
:-)

[MinaRho1]

Wow - what a great explanation for her immortality through her own powers.
:-)

thanks! Though I should probably be shot for trying to apply logic to any of this

[Seant]

It's been said that Wonder Woman is physically perfect. Perfectly beautiful, unblemished, untouched by disease, mutations whatever.



Who said that? It's been shown that she can be poisoned (during the Bana storyline, in Justice), shot, slashed by Cheetah, blinded by acid-- she's not perfect, untouchable. I don't know why people want her that way.

[PabloD]

Okay, I swear I hadn't given this serious thought or commited any time to it. But I was laying in bed one night and it just came to me.

It's been said that Wonder Woman is physically perfect. Perfectly beautiful, unblemished, untouched by disease, mutations whatever.

But if you take that concept and see it through it has a few implications. If she's perfect to the molecular level, to her dna, she wouldn't age-- or at least not age like the rest of us. One of the major theories of aging is that when cells divide and replicate over the course of an entire lifetime, the replication becomes imperfect. DNA replicates just fine in a brand new baby. But over time it breaks down because the DNA isn't "perfect" to begin with. As years go by pieces are missing, things get overwritten. It's like making copies of copies over and over again on a crappy xerox machine. Over time the ending image is a VERY broken down version of the original.

If Diana's perfect, and her body functions perfectly- better than perfect, uber-optimal, then all that becomes a non-issue. That's why characters like her or Captain America or Wolverine wouldn't age. (not as we see it) Its not that immortality is one of their powers. They're not immortal. Their existing powers have certain effects on them.

If this sounds out there, I understand. But I think it makes perfect sense but I've been shot down before. I was once basically told I was a loser for informing an artist that Supergirl as a kryptonian shouldn't have freckles. Freckles are a result from sun-damage,and the body can't completely shield it's skin with pigment to protect itself from future sun-damage. Kryptonians are renewed and amped up by the sun. It seemed a perfectly reasonable observation to me.

Yes, I'm still bitter.

I'm a fan of the idea of Wondy having an explicit gift of immortality, but I really like this reasoning too.

[Gail Simone]

Since the mortality bit has been pretty much ignored through the years, and since we're operating in a different "age" than the Perez stories, I'd say that Diana is still immortal. After all, what reason could there be for revoking that?

Can't, she has been made mortal again in a previous and recent run. We'd have to remake her immortal.

[turnedm]

Can't, she has been made mortal again in a previous and recent run. We'd have to remake her immortal.

I myself don't think Diana ever was immortal. She is not exactly like her Amazon sisters, even if their origins are the same. During the Byrne run, Diana was made mortal by the Olympians.

[nerites]

But then again she was made mortal by magick, that can always have a counterspell. Right?

[Peter Svensson]

The point is academic is it not? Diana isn't going to die or grow old in present continuity, so it's not worth stressing out over.

I like the idea that Diana, having left Paradise Island is mortal, and that the Amazons are immortal as long as they remain on the island. Heck, I'd prefer that said immortality be a perfect effect, that NOTHING can kill an Amazon on the blessed grounds of Themyscria. *grumble grumble* stupid massacres *grumble grumble*

[knowwonder]

Can't, she has been made mortal again in a previous and recent run. We'd have to remake her immortal.

This is ruining my new year, Gail. (I am half kidding, but there's not an specific smilie for that.....)

Again, for me, this is telling. Wonder Woman--born of a magical, immortal race--a concept that is literally with her from PAGE ONE--is not immortal.

But Superman is.

#$*% that and your flying dog, too, DC.

[Seant]

Wonder Woman--born of a magical, immortal race--a concept that is literally with her from PAGE ONE--is not immortal.
.

Yeah, because she gave it up on PAGE TWO.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yeah, because she gave it up on PAGE TWO.

But now that we´re on page 500, why not give it back to her?