Geoff Johns, Really that good???

[Ilostmyplace]

First I want to say I'm really liking Blackest Night. And I really have to hit my hat at him for doing such a good good with this comic. Unlike Mark Millar Marvel comics Civil War, and there disappointing ending, like making Captain America cry. :evilangry: This story is and the most part is just plane good. Dan DiDio or Captain idiot how I like to call DiDio, must be rolling in him seat with a smile now seeing how much of a good writer Geoff Johns is, after letting some many bad and I mean BAD comics go. Like Amazons Attack and Countdown. And sure there's Grant Morrison the one guy that can sale comics but not follow one bit of continuity with anyone else. And if you ask me I think Geoff Johns is a far better writer then Mark Millar or Grant Morrison. And unlike Civil War you don't need to order 1000 copies to get the special cover and another 1000 copies to get the special sketch cover. But what do you thing???:biggrin:

[Freakzeek]

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[Ilostmyplace]

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/1253490447932.jpg


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You know. that's pretty funny. lol :biggrin:

[carabas]

Alan Moore doesn't really have a foot to stand upon there since these days about 100% of the characters he uses are pilfered from old novels, comics, movies...


And sure there's Grant Morrison the one guy that can sale comics but not follow one bit of continuity with anyone else.Kinda like the other way round. Morrison has no more problems than other writers with following continuity. But other writers have great trouble following up on Morrison stories.

[FailureByDesign]

My opinion - yes.
The Facts - the sales.

[C-Cool]

This won't end well...

If it isn't in a writer's own forum (popular, or otherwise), don't sing their praises in an entire thread, because, more than likely, a flame war will always end a thread like this.

No offense to you, Ilostmyplace. It's just that the end result is easily predictable.

[FailureByDesign]

This won't end well...

If it isn't in a writer's own forum (popular, or otherwise), don't sing their praises in an entire thread, because, more than likely, a flame war will always end a thread like this.

No offense to you, Ilostmyplace. It's just that the end result is easily predictable.

Plus more importantly if you like or dislike the writer want difference should it make..

[carabas]

My opinion - yes.
The Facts - the sales.Potent counter-argument: Jeph Frelling Loeb.
Sales and quality rarely see eye to eye.

[Desaad]

In my opinion, no. He's above average, absolutely, but I'm surprised he gets as much as he does.

I pretty much feel that about most all of the really big writers, though. Bendis, Millar, Johns, Waid, etc all seem really overrated. Of the guys who are automatic money makers, only Grant Morrison has really earned that, IMHO.

[aut0matic]

i think he is.

i also think alan moore is full of shit. i think he's a little jealous that he's not getting much attention these days. he should be placed on suicide watch, that is if anyone cared.

[gwydion]

Good? Yes, IMO, though not always. Like every other good writer, he sometimes stinks up the joint. It's just something to deal with, no one fires on all cylinders all the time. Especially when he gets tired with a character or team, Johns has a tendency to not write as well. His pacing drags, his plotting fails, and his characterization flags as well.

He also doesn't get some characters, no matter how long he writes them. And he has another tendency to write certain characters as godlike and wonderful, no matter how they have been portrayed in that past---as long as he likes them. They become invincible, and those opposing them lose half their powers and IQ points it seems.

This is to be fair not a problem just with him.

On the flip side of the coin, he can take characters that have just not clicked and revitalize them, and he can take old ideas, (yes, from Alan Moore among others), and dredge them up, give them a shiny fresh coat of paint, and make them into interesting, but hardly classic works that sell like hotcakes.

Of course others like Gail Simone for example can also take characters that haven't done so well recently and revitalize them.

As for comparing him to Grant Morrison, well, on the whole I prefer Johns, as Morrison tends toward Byzantine plot structures that I find off-putting.

[Desaad]

I'm always surprised to see the hate going Alan Moore's way. The guy revolutionized comics, and will go down in history as probably the greatest writer comics ever had, certainly 'one of the'.

The comment that everyone refers to was really quite a bit more innocuous than peoples' reactions to those comments.

[Mat001]

The reason Moore gets crapped on is as someone mentioned, the fact that he mines his material from someone else's work, which he is adamant that Johns shouldn't be doing.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

No one denies that Moore hasn't done his share to revolutionize comics. But he should mind his own fences when he makes statements that show him to be contradictory. And some fans are kinda tired of listening to his complaints in general.

[Munkiman]

I think Geoff Johns is a very good writer, but not great on the levels of Alan Moore or Grant Morrison.

But Johns has a few skills that make him one of the absolute biggest writers in DC Comics these days:
1) He writes a LOT. Seriously, when does this guy even sleep? He's on, what, five books a month right now?
2) His writing is ACCESSIBLE. Key word. He has a gift for making a book in continuity while still making everything that's going on perfectly clear to the reader, so you can get right into the action and understand who each character is and what their motivation is pretty easily. His books are generally entertaining and fun and, while not super-deep, they still have themes and metaphors and whatnot so that you don't feel like it's too shallow. Plus, you gotta admit he's good at crafting these little moments that really stick in your mind. I find a couple good examples are: when Hal is pondering the power fear holds over people at the end of "No Fear," and then sees his brother and his family driving into Coast City, and he flies down over their car, smiling, and his thought box says, "I didn't think so"; Sinestro's killing Laira, that had a real emotional impact to me and was really a great villain moment for Sinestro; and one from a while back at the end of the first issue of Hawkman, when Hawkman and Hawkgirl are going to get dinner and Kendra says she just wants "something quick. A burger." "A... burger? That's it? You hated-" "Shiera hated burgers, right? I don't. "Okay, burger it is. ....You sure that's what you want?" That brought a smile to my face, and I could tell it was a Johns moment. :biggrin:

[titanfan]

Yes, Johns is that good.

Regarding Morrison and his continuity issues--if you're referring to the Final Crisis being totally unrelated to the Countdown/Death of the New Gods and such, I do believe that wasn't his fault.

Every writer has their hits and misses, the more they write, the more "bad stuff" gets out there...

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

No. Johns is good, but he's shown he isn't that good. (See Flash Rebirth, LO3W, and his Superman run). He can't write a hero that well without telling us how awesome they are, but writes a damn good villain. Personally, I see him as the equivalent to Bendis in the Marvel U.

The best talent at DC is Grant Morrison. I don't think Marvel has anyone as good as him. So though Marvel may have better writers, they don't have the best.

[West Mantooth]

I get the feeling Johns is going to be one of those writers of a certain era. Where he comes back 10 years from now and people wonder if he lost it cause he's stuff isn't working, when in reality taste have changed ala Chris Claremont.

[Winghead]

Geoff Johns has probably become my favorite current writer ( yes I should change my avatar) His stories have a great flow, an epic feel and really take me somewhere that most comics do not. His narratives are well thought out and quite literary, and when Geoff leaves a book, his presence is always missed and it is very difficult for most other writers to take his place. He also seems like a relatable and down to earth person that genuinely loves his fans as much as the characters he writes. He apologizes wholeheartedly for delays, and seems like a well rounded human being.

Grant Morrison is great. Probably in my top 3. but he sometimes loses me with his ultra avant garde style in favor of storytelling and emotion. He often seems like he is trying way too hard to be "cool" and make you say WTF? I have rarely felt like I could relate to a Morrison character in a human way the way I can with Geoff's Flash, and all of his JSA characters.

Alan Moore on the other hand, who yes wrote a classic piece of work 20 years ago comes off as an unrelatable self important cantankerous bastard 90% of the time, and while many may attribute it to "genius", I would sooner attribute it to self righteous cantankerous bastardness.

I have said this before and I will say it again...Geoff is one of the youngest major creators and definitely the youngest achieving his level of success right now. He writes the hell out of Flash, GL and knows how to handle individual characterization and large epic stories. He is only beginning his writing career. I would love to see him venture in to a creator owned property or try out non super hero stuff one day, although he is clearly doing more than writing standard super hero fare and clearly gives his books their own flavor.

pretentious so called "geniuses" like Alan Moore and Frank Miller may have done some good work in their heyday, but I have no doubt that Geoff will be one of the guys that reaches that level and keeps his level head and his humanity while doing it.

[Duy]

Johns is my favorite straightforward superhero writer ever. His stuff's not deep, but that's not really what I look for in superhero comics. His work is one big adrenaline rush peppered with lots and lots of wonderful character moments.

I love Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison, and when they're on (let us please not turn this into a debate as to when these various writers were or were not "on"), they produce better work than Geoff does, but what I like about Geoff is that his superhero stuff is PREDICTABLE IN THAT GOOD WAY.

For example, "Darkness Falls" in JSA. Just about anyone could predict that Alan Scott would save the day, reciting his oath and letting loose, showing how powerful he really is. In "Princes of Darkness," when Alan Scott gets his ring back and becomes Green Lantern again, it's just an awesome moment, because it signals his big comeback. In "GL: Rebirth," when the Lanterns all go after Parallax and say their oath line by line, it's also just another great moment. My absolute favorite is in his Superman and the Legion run when Superman falls to earth. People who read that will know that one.

There is a certain basic structure to a fight that is prevalent in all works of fiction that involve fighting, where the hero gets some good face time, then the villain takes over, then the hero makes a comeback, and then we go to the finish. Of course, you can always add to this and tweak it around and make it more complex, but what I like about Johns is that he approaches superhero stories in that basic way to begin with that the other writers I mentioned don't really do, including giving the big finish to the hero of the piece.

As an example, I love, absolutely love Moore's "For the Man Who Has Everything." It's poignant, beautifully drawn, and full of good character moments and awesome fight sequences. But really, who won the fight between Superman and Mongul? And who saved Superman? And not to get too deep, on a basic, adrenaline-rush level, do we really want to see that? In fact, actually, quick, name three Alan Moore fight scenes that were both awesome and had the hero of the story save the day.

Johns' stuff is basic stuff - albeit better than most other basic stuff - that could be classified, yes, as fan service, but consider this fan served.


No. Johns is good, but he's shown he isn't that good. (See Flash Rebirth, LO3W, and his Superman run). He can't write a hero that well without telling us how awesome they are, but writes a damn good villain. Personally, I see him as the equivalent to Bendis in the Marvel U.

LO3W and his Superman run were awesome, and I'll kick you if you say otherwise. In the shin. Twice. :biggrin:

[Winghead]

Geoff will not be a Claremont. First off, he's a geek at heart but a fairly cutting edge writer. He writes classic comics without an old school feel and is quite cutting edge. He has already adapted for a grittier comic audience and I'm sure will continue to adapt.

[Winghead]

and for the record LO3W and Rogues Revenge were the 2 best things that came out of Final Crisis. LO3W is a challenging thorough reading experiece

[Freakzeek]

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/1258908121533.gif

[Munkiman]

I think Alan Moore is one of the all-time best comic writers, but he really shouldn't have insulted Blackest Night like that. He didn't have his facts straight at all - heck, Sinestro Corps War had more to do with Moore's prophecy from "Tygers." Sure, Johns added to that story by using it as a way for the prophecy of Blackest Night to be revealed, but A) the prophecy aspect is really not that important to the story, B) that story was IN CONTINUITY and popular so why shouldn't it be alluded to? It's not a rip-off, just a shout out, and C) again, the prophecy in "Tygers" said that the Weaponers of Qward, Children of the White Lobe, Empire of Tears and Ranx the Sentient City would team up and destroy the GL Corps, starting with the death of Mogo and ending with the death of Sodam Yat. Ranx, the Weaponers and the White Lobe haven't appeared since the Sinestro Corps War, and in that story both Ranx and most of the Children of the White Lobe DIED, so the two prophecies being the same is extremely unlikely, not to mention that nowhere in that story did Alan Moore use Nekron or the existence of multiple Lantern Corps. It's a totally original story that featured a small, unimportant shout-out to one of Alan Moore's GL stories, and Alan Moore immediately assumes that it's a rip-off of his work when really the only reason they're having this GL-centric crossover is due to the popularity of Geoff Johns' Green Lantern. Moore is just bitter at DC and jumped to conclusions based on something he heard about a story he couldn't even be bothered to find a synopsis for.

[Duy]

Alan Moore on the other hand, who yes wrote a classic piece of work 20 years ago comes off as an unrelatable self important cantankerous bastard 90% of the time, and while many may attribute it to "genius", I would sooner attribute it to self righteous cantankerous bastardness.


Do you know anything at all about Alan Moore other than snippets from interviews?

Just about anyone who's interviewed the man or has spent time with him has nothing but good things about him. On his 50th birthday, he had TWO tribute books put out.

Also, do you know that Alan Moore wrote works AFTER Watchmen that were still critically acclaimed and significant, some of which were very recent?

Do you know that Moore even made fun of his perceived "cantankerous bastardness" by voicing a version of himself that fit that description on the Simpsons?

The man has strong opinions, and sometimes he's a little over the line, but he's one of the nicest men in comics, if interviewers and artists are to be believed. He just holds fast to his opinions, and there's nothing wrong with that. The only time I ever felt he really crossed the line was when he denounced Blackest Night for basing it off a short story he did 20 years ago. And even then it just seemed he got his facts wrong.

[Duy]

I think Alan Moore is one of the all-time best comic writers, but he really shouldn't have insulted Blackest Night like that. He didn't have his facts straight at all - heck, Sinestro Corps War had more to do with Moore's prophecy from "Tygers." Sure, Johns added to that story by using it as a way for the prophecy of Blackest Night to be revealed, but A) the prophecy aspect is really not that important to the story, B) that story was IN CONTINUITY and popular so why shouldn't it be alluded to? It's not a rip-off, just a shout out, and C) again, the prophecy in "Tygers" said that the Weaponers of Qward, Children of the White Lobe, Empire of Tears and Ranx the Sentient City would team up and destroy the GL Corps, starting with the death of Mogo and ending with the death of Sodam Yat. Ranx, the Weaponers and the White Lobe haven't appeared since the Sinestro Corps War, and in that story both Ranx and most of the Children of the White Lobe DIED, so the two prophecies being the same is extremely unlikely, not to mention that nowhere in that story did Alan Moore use Nekron or the existence of multiple Lantern Corps. It's a totally original story that featured a small, unimportant shout-out to one of Alan Moore's GL stories, and Alan Moore immediately assumes that it's a rip-off of his work when really the only reason they're having this GL-centric crossover is due to the popularity of Geoff Johns' Green Lantern. Moore is just bitter at DC and jumped to conclusions based on something he heard about a story he couldn't even be bothered to find a synopsis for.
Agreed, I think he just got his facts wrong and just used it as a stepping stone to discuss what he sees as the creative slowdown of mainstream comics. I don't thinkt here's anything wrong with expressing that point of view; I just don't think he should have pursued that entryway.

[FlyingFox]

No, Johns is not that good. He's a hack.

[Winghead]

perhaps I overstated that. and I know he wrote books after Watchmen. I have read all of his America's Best Comics stuff and Promethea as well. He's definitely a major contributor, and deserves to be mentioned as one of the greatest for Watchmen alone. I just think he has said some pretty narcissistic things in the media and has always come off as cantankerous albeit in a quirky way in interviews. He may in fact be a nice guy, I don't know. Gaiman always struck me as the more personable of the two.

[Duy]

No, Johns is not that good. He's a hack.
Since the OP is looking to have a fully formed, educated opinion on Geoff's work, you're not really much help. Kindly back up your statements; otherwise, there's not really any substance to your post. Many thanks.

[Duy]

perhaps I overstated that. and I know he wrote books after Watchmen. I have read all of his America's Best Comics stuff and Promethea as well. He's definitely a major contributor, and deserves to be mentioned as one of the greatest for Watchmen alone. I just think he has said some pretty narcissistic things in the media and has always come off as cantankerous albeit in a quirky way in interviews. He may in fact be a nice guy, I don't know. Gaiman always struck me as the more personable of the two.
Having met Gaiman, I can honestly say he's the more personable, simply because I don't think you can get more personable than Gaiman, other than George Perez.

I never really saw Moore talking about his talent as being narcissistic; I think he's just being objective. If he says something like "I don't do first drafts; if I can't write my way out of a problem at this point, it's time to retire," I think he's just being objective. And sure, I guess we can say that he's really biased toward DC, but to be fair, DC has screwed him over in so many ways. (I attribute part of it to Moore being a bad businessman)

To be perfectly honest, until maybe a couple of years ago, I could read any Moore interview and see his side of the story completely and be unable to really blame him if he even seemed to be going out of line. Recently though, I kind of feel he's started losing his mind (figuratively speaking).

[paulski]

Since the OP is looking to have a fully formed, educated opinion on Geoff's work, you're not really much help. Kindly back up your statements; otherwise, there's not really any substance to your post. Many thanks.

On the bright side, we got through 25 posts before someone decided to go a-trollin'. That's about double what I would have bet on. And the usual suspects haven't even shown up yet either. But they will... oh, they will. :frown:

[FlyingFox]

Since the OP is looking to have a fully formed, educated opinion on Geoff's work, you're not really much help. Kindly back up your statements; otherwise, there's not really any substance to your post. Many thanks.


On the bright side, we got through 25 posts before someone decided to go a-trollin'. That's about double what I would have bet on. And the usual suspects haven't even shown up yet either. But they will... oh, they will. :frown:

U guyz mad?

[Duy]

U guyz mad?
No, just pointing out that you're not being particularly helpful and are only wasting your time.

[Freakzeek]

Alan Scott: Hal Jordan made me Green Lantern


We All Know it's gonna happen

[True Herald]

Geoff used to be good, but he has regressed. Too many of his stories lately have degenerated into pandering, adoelscent gore-porn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Gorn). And he's notorious for resorting to retcons to tell his stories.

Under Geoff's pen, Hal and Barry are no longer legitimate characters; they're Mary Sues. And worse, the latter has foolishly been made Darker And Edgier (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkerAndEdgier) via one of his ridiculous retcons, when the character, PROPERLY portrayed, is anything but. (Like I've said before, he may have brought back The Flash, but he forgot to bring back The Substance.)

Then there's Emoboy Prime. He's another Mary Sue, but of a more specific kind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue). Geoff may think that he's created a Straw Fan (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawFan), but he's ironically created a portrait of himself and the rest of his clique at the DiDio regime. They are the ones who have been arbitrarily retconning the DCU and killing off numerous characters. No fan can do that, except the ones Running The Asylum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningTheAsylum). And that's Geoff, Dan, and their pals.

All in all, Geoff's not writing professional stories anymore; he's writing fanfic. And poorly conceived fanfic, at that.

[Duy]

Geoff used to be good, but he has regressed. Too many of his stories lately have degenerated into pandering, adoelscent gore-porn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Gorn). And he's notorious for resorting to retcons to tell his stories.

Under Geoff's pen, Hal and Barry are no longer legitimate characters; they're Mary Sues. And worse, the latter has foolishly been made Darker And Edgier (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkerAndEdgier) via one of his ridiculous retcons, when the character, PROPERLY portrayed, is anything but. (Like I've said before, he may have brought back The Flash, but he forgot to bring back The Substance.)

Then there's Emoboy Prime. He's another Mary Sue, but of a more specific kind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue). Geoff may think that he's created a Straw Fan (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawFan), but he's ironically created a portrait of himself and the rest of his clique at the DiDio regime. They are the ones who have been arbitrarily retconning the DCU and killing off numerous characters. No fan can do that, except the ones Running The Asylum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningTheAsylum). And that's Geoff, Dan, and their pals.

All in all, Geoff's not writing professional stories anymore; he's writing fanfic. And poorly conceived fanfic, at that.
...Do you... work for TVtropes?

[True Herald]

...Do you... work for TVtropes?

No, but I wish I did. I would be making TONS of cash. :smile:

[ryerye17]

Geoff used to be good, but he has regressed. Too many of his stories lately have degenerated into pandering, adoelscent gore-porn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Gorn). And he's notorious for resorting to retcons to tell his stories.

Under Geoff's pen, Hal and Barry are no longer legitimate characters; they're Mary Sues. And worse, the latter has foolishly been made Darker And Edgier (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkerAndEdgier) via one of his ridiculous retcons, when the character, PROPERLY portrayed, is anything but. (Like I've said before, he may have brought back The Flash, but he forgot to bring back The Substance.)

Then there's Emoboy Prime. He's another Mary Sue, but of a more specific kind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue). Geoff may think that he's created a Straw Fan (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawFan), but he's ironically created a portrait of himself and the rest of his clique at the DiDio regime. They are the ones who have been arbitrarily retconning the DCU and killing off numerous characters. No fan can do that, except the ones Running The Asylum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningTheAsylum). And that's Geoff, Dan, and their pals.

All in all, Geoff's not writing professional stories anymore; he's writing fanfic. And poorly conceived fanfic, at that.

Five tropes in one post. That must be a record even for you.

[True Herald]

Five tropes in one post. That must be a record even for you.

Not even close.
Besides, there's an ideal to reach for. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllBlueEntry) :wink:

[NickFury90]

A little known fact is that that theres really two Geoff Johns. One of them has made a career on making fun, if predictable and not necessarily inventive superhero books(Flash, Action Comics, JSA). The other fills his books with purple prose, incredible amounts of exposition which is only outnumbered by the amount of unnecessary violence, and retcons out the ASS(Legion of 3 Worlds, Green Lantern, and this God awful Blackest Night event).

[Ilostmyplace]

I'm going to say this as honestly as I can, so please don't take this the wrong way...


..but it's annoying. Please don't do that again. If you're going to cite sources, cite something that actually has clout.

Thank you.

I'm not going to defend True Herald. But here are some links to the word Mary Sue.

First on tvtropes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue)

Then on wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue)

There almost the same.:eek:

[Duy]

I'm going to defend True Herald. But here are some links to the word Mary Sue.

First on tvtropes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue)

Then on wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue)

There almost the same.:eek:
Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

[Duy]

A little known fact is that that theres really two Geoff Johns. One of them has made a career on making fun, if predictable and not necessarily inventive superhero books(Flash, Action Comics, JSA). The other fills his books with purple prose, incredible amounts of exposition which is only outnumbered by the amount of unnecessary violence, and retcons out the ASS(Legion of 3 Worlds, Green Lantern, and this God awful Blackest Night event).

I like all those books you mentioned, even love some of them.

That having been said, he's not for everyone.

[BrightestDay]

Geoff's Green Lantern is one of the best runs on a title I've ever read and is what brought me into the DCU as a fan. I'm also really digging Blackest Night (the mini, not the 3 million tie ins) so yeah, I'd say he's one of the best comic writers currently working. Having said that I don't think he, or any other writer for that matter (no, not even the almighty Morrison) is so good that they should be hailed as the savior of DC or whatever and put on every major book/event the company pushes out.

Johns writes excellent superhero stories. The End. He's not really trying to be Alan Moore or Grant Morrison and I think it's a mistake to compare his work with theirs too critically when they're so obviously concerned with much different things as writers.

[Ilostmyplace]

Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

Sorry I had a typo there. I meant to say I'm not going to defend True Herald. Sorry about that.:smile:

[True Herald]

Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

That's an incorrect assumption on your part. No part of my opinion comes from TV Tropes. Again, I use the tropes for fun.


Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

But I'm not writing a paper; I'm posting an informal message on a comic book message board.

[NickFury90]

Seriously, its pretty sad that every time a new writer for a book gets brought up, "ZOMG GEOFF JOHNS HAS THE MIDAS TOUCH" and he has to swoop in and save the day. DC has other, better writers out there(and I don't just mean Morrison, but that goes without saying anyway). Like the JLA books; I'd much rather see Rucka or Tomasi get a shot out it instead of Johns.

[BrightestDay]

Also, I don't think Hal as written by Johns really qualifies as a Mary Sue at all. I haven't read his Flash (or any Flash at all for that matter) so I can't speak on his portrayal of Barry Allen, but Hal in Geoff's run has made plenty of mistakes and has been called out on them by others and acknowledged by himself.

He obviously holds a great deal of affection and respect for the character, but that's not really a bad thing in and of itself. I for one would rather read stories about any character when they're written by those who hold the same kind of love for said character. Johns writing Hal as cool does not = Mary Sue, Hal's always been one of the "cooler" heroes. This is evident in stories by plenty of other writers (Mark Waid for one) over the years.

[Duy]

That's an incorrect assumption on your part. No part of my opinion comes from TV Tropes. Again, I use the tropes for fun.



But I'm not writing a paper; I'm posting an informal message on a comic book message board.

Sorry, but when practically every sentence of your argument has a link to TVtripes, then yes, your opinion is essentially coming from TVtropes.

[Ilostmyplace]

Seriously, its pretty sad that every time a new writer for a book gets brought up, "ZOMG GEOFF JOHNS HAS THE MIDAS TOUCH" and he has to swoop in and save the day. DC has other, better writers out there(and I don't just mean Morrison, but that goes without saying anyway). Like the JLA books; I'd much rather see Rucka or Tomasi get a shot out it instead of Johns.

I don't know about Tomasi, but Rucka is halfway about to leave DC's door. He's already freelance writer for DC. And from the rumors I heard he's maybe thinking going back to books.

[Ilostmyplace]

Also, I don't think Hal as written by Johns really qualifies as a Mary Sue at all. I haven't read his Flash (or any Flash at all for that matter) so I can't speak on his portrayal of Barry Allen, but Hal in Geoff's run has made plenty of mistakes and has been called out on them by others and acknowledged by himself.

He obviously holds a great deal of affection and respect for the character, but that's not really a bad thing in and of itself. I for one would rather read stories about any character when they're written by those who hold the same kind of love for said character. Johns writing Hal as cool does not = Mary Sue, Hal's always been one of the "cooler" heroes. This is evident in stories by plenty of other writers (Mark Waid for one) over the years.

I have to agree with that. :smile:

[True Herald]

Sorry, but when practically every sentence of your argument has a link to TVtripes, then yes, your opinion is essentially coming from TVtropes.

Sorry, but if you actually checked the links and knew my history instead of making foolish assumptions, you'd see that it's not.

Try getting your facts straight.

[Duy]

Sorry, but if you actually checked the links and knew my history instead of making foolish assumptions, you'd see that it's not.

Try getting your facts straight.
Your argument consisted of a bunch of terms for TVtropes that would require us to go to TVtropes to check the definition. While your opinion doesn't come from TVtropes, you are specifically tailoring your opinion to fit TVtropes' definitions, or the other way around.

In addition, it honestly feels like a shameless shill.

[Pól Rua]

Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

Unfortunately, for some of us, it's much easier to post a link than bust our humps formulating huge screeds about our opinions backed up by examples and citations which will be mostly ignored so that we can have the same arguments again in three weeks.
I mean, if someone else has already written exactly what you want to say, why not link to it?

And this isn't a research paper, it's a discussion. TH doesn't seem to be using TVTropes as much as source material as much as shorthand.

So, in that spirit, here's one I prepared earlier:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=9005080&postcount=146

[Mundungus]

Geoff Johns' Avengers: Red Zone sold me on him.

His DC work, more often than not, has been stellar.

I'm willing to give any of his books a shot.

[True Herald]

Your argument consisted of a bunch of terms for TVtropes that would require us to go to TVtropes to check the definition.

Not really. The terms I used are self-explanatory, and are obvious given the context. Are you claiming that you can't figure out what "Darker And Edgier" means without hitting the link??


While your opinion doesn't come from TVtropes

Well, at least we're making progress...


you are specifically tailoring your opinion to fit TVtropes' definitions, or the other way around.

Not at all. I put the links where and when they naturally fit into what I'm saying. That's why, many times, I don't use any at all. I don't feel any need to force them in.


In addition, it honestly feels like a shameless shill.

Key word: Feels. That doesn't make it true. As I already told you, I don't make a dime out of mentioning these tropes.

[dupersuper]

I think Geoff Johns is a very good writer, but not great on the levels of Alan Moore or Grant Morrison.

But Johns has a few skills that make him one of the absolute biggest writers in DC Comics these days:
1) He writes a LOT. Seriously, when does this guy even sleep? He's on, what, five books a month right now?

...and still finding time for Smallville episodes...and I understand he recently opened his own comics store...plus 1 of the books he is on is a big crossover he has to co-ordinate with other writers and editors...even if you hate his stuff, you've gotta' admire that work ethic...


Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

Yes, I've seen True Herald post in other threads and it does seem like CBR and TV Tropes are the only bookmarks they have saved. I still find that site entertaining though.


Seriously, its pretty sad that every time a new writer for a book gets brought up, "ZOMG GEOFF JOHNS HAS THE MIDAS TOUCH" and he has to swoop in and save the day. DC has other, better writers out there(and I don't just mean Morrison, but that goes without saying anyway). Like the JLA books; I'd much rather see Rucka or Tomasi get a shot out it instead of Johns.

I enjoy Jones, but a Tomasi Justice League would be awesome...


I don't know about Tomasi, but Rucka is halfway about to leave DC's door. He's already freelance writer for DC. And from the rumors I heard he's maybe thinking going back to books.

But he writes Detective and Action, and co-writes World of New Krypton...and I like those books...and his leaving would make me sad...why would he want to make me sad...?


Sorry, but if you actually checked the links and knew my history instead of making foolish assumptions, you'd see that it's not.

Try getting your facts straight.

Um...I've read plenty of your past posts...and I thought you were TVTrope spam for about 4 posts...

To answer the OP question, I've liked Johns since Stars and Stripe...

[Pól Rua]

...To answer the OP question, I've liked Johns since Stars and Stripe...

Oddly enough, I can't stand Geoff Johns, but I loved 'Stars and STRIPE'.

[True Herald]

Yes, I've seen True Herald post in other threads and it does seem like CBR and TV Tropes are the only bookmarks they have saved.

If only. I especially had a ton of random bookmarks on the desktop I was using.

Not sure how posting trope links proves that those are the only bookmarks I have. I imagine even more people wouldn't like it if I started throwing out links to eBay auctions I've saved (especially since I don't sell anything on there), links to Japanese websites, and whatnot. :wink:


I still find that site entertaining though.

:smile:


Um...I've read plenty of your past posts...and I thought you were TVTrope spam for about 4 posts...

Really?? Lol!

[True Herald]

Oddly enough, I can't stand Geoff Johns, but I loved 'Stars and STRIPE'.

Yeah, Stars and the first JSA series were great. Day of Judgment was pretty good, too.

[Duy]

Oddly enough, I can't stand Geoff Johns, but I loved 'Stars and STRIPE'.

And oddly enough, I love Geoff Johns, but I couldn't stand Stars and STRIPE.

Except for that zero issue which had parts that Chris Weston drew. But that was Robinson.

[noh-varr]

Just straight up answering the question the OP posed, I think he is a good writer over all. I don't love everything he does (and down right disagree with a few things), I think there are better writers for me, but he is a good enough writer for what his job is. Which is to help orchestrate and keep portions of the DCU running and moving.

[Duy]

Just straight up answering the question the OP posed, I think he is a good writer over all. I don't love everything he does (and down right disagree with a few things), I think there are better writers for me, but he is a good enough writer for what his job is. Which is to help orchestrate and keep portions of the DCU running and moving.
I think he's actually the best at that particular job. But I wouldn't really care if he put out a new book full of new characters, or even if he worked in a genre other than superheroes.

[Raker616]

Yeah Geoff is that good aside from a couple of misteps (mostly SBP related) the guy is the best comic book writer out since today. No one has written as many qualtiy comics as he has everything from Flash to JSA to GL has been good to great during his time at DC. Most guys are lucky if they have 1 good run on a book while he has several and appears to be getting better BN has been incredible imo.

[Freakzeek]

I think the fundamental thing that annoys me is that Johns often has other heroes state his opinions on characters rather than write a story that shows the character for what they are. For examples see the welcome back party in flash.

But I may just have a bit of a bit of a tainted view of these comics because I will always prefer Wally and Kyle, and I don't really enjoy cockiness in heroes, which Johns gives most people he writes.

"Those were for charity Clark"

Meh, I don't enjoy these comics, others do. Not a big deal

[noh-varr]

I think he's actually the best at that particular job. But I wouldn't really care if he put out a new book full of new characters, or even if he worked in a genre other than superheroes.

He's the best one doing the job right now. I think he has done better work then Bendis or Millar have. He is one of the best to revive old franchises and make them sparkle. But he's not the best at making them feel new or change them much. Which is fine. I have pretty much admitted defeat when it comes to seeing real change in Marvel or the DCU. But I can think of creators I'd rather see doing the job or that have done a better job in the past imo.

I'd like to see Johns try something outside of his comfort zone of recreating the Silver Age of his youth. I think it would be interesting.

[Hullababy]

He is the best at what he does which is writing straight up superhero comics.

[Duy]

He's the best one doing the job right now. I think he has done better work then Bendis or Millar have. He is one of the best to revive old franchises and make them sparkle. But he's not the best at making them feel new or change them much. Which is fine. I have pretty much admitted defeat when it comes to seeing real change in Marvel or the DCU. But I can think of creators I'd rather see doing the job or that have done a better job in the past imo.

I agree; Johns is definitely a "basic" writer, but as far as I'm concerned, on the scale of "basic" writers, he's the best one in the business today.

Quite personally, I read a lot of diverse stuff, and I read them all for different things. So when it comes to superhero comics--specifically with the icons--all I'm really looking for is a fun, feel-good ride with lines of dialogue that would be totally lame in real life but completely awesome in fiction and action sequences that make me go "Holy sh**."

Even Grant didn't really get all Grant-experimental on his JLA run, because he pretty much understood that it was just to tell the best story he could under the directive that the story was fun.

I just don't take superheroes on the whole all that seriously, so Geoff's really my go-to guy for the icons.

[40footwolf]

I think that he...can be a very good writer. I don't think he has been as of late.

[True Herald]

I think the fundamental thing that annoys me is that Johns often has other heroes state his opinions on characters rather than write a story that shows the character for what they are. For examples see the welcome back party in flash.

WHAT??!! You don't like seeing characters like Wildcat sit around and talk about how badly they all want to bear Barry Allen's children?? This is an outrage, sir!!

:biggrin:

[jackdaw53]

I'm sure its been pointed out how subjective it all is... but here's goes with my view.

He's okay, but I don't think he's "the best at what he does"... not if by that you mean the best writer of straight super hero stories. Writers with wider ranges (e.g. John Ostrander, Peter David and Ed Brubaker) can beat him at his own game. For example, I've not read anything by him that gave me as much enjoyment as Ed's Captain America, Gotham Central or Catwoman. Can quote similar examples for Messrs David and Ostrander.

To me.... he would gain something by trying something different... am I the only one who thinks he's getting a bit one toned... just a bit boring? (But I have to admit I came to that conclusion a couple of years ago, and have not read any of his stuff recently.)

[paulski]

He is the best at what he does which is writing straight up superhero comics.

Completely agree.

And considering that I like reading 'superhero comics', I gots me no complaints. :smile:

[Twigglet]

Hes' ok at what he does, but he'll never writer anything up there with Bendis', Brubakers, Morrisons best work. I mean his ideas are often pretty silly, and his dialogue isn't his strong point either,but he knows how to pace an arc and give "kewl" moments that fans love.

[Laurence]

Solid genre work. Occasioanlly goes awry when asked to write out of his comfort zone, but nevertheless, okay.

[Kent H]

No. Johns is good, but he's shown he isn't that good. (See Flash Rebirth, LO3W, and his Superman run).

Good, Excellent, Excellent

Yeah, I can see how that's proof of him not being that great ...

[Kent H]

Sigh, it's actually not the linking I can't stand; it's the sheer frequency of it all from one site that just makes it seem like he has no true opinion of his own, just bits and pieces of opinions put together from one source.

Sorry, TH, no offense meant; it's just that if I were, say, writing a paper, I'd never have just one source.

Herald's been doing it for years now. Several years. Asking him to stop is like asking the sun to not set. Unfortunately.

[Kent H]

I don't know about Tomasi, but Rucka is halfway about to leave DC's door. He's already freelance writer for DC. And from the rumors I heard he's maybe thinking going back to books.

Considering the number of things Rucka's doing for DC right now, he's not likely to be leaving DC anytime soon at all. Even if he does return to novel writing. He seems perfectly content at DC to me.

As for Tomasi - I like Robinson's JLA stuff so far (yes, including Cry for Justice), but I will admit it's not as strong as his Superman stuff (post first Atlas arc) or earlier stuff, and Tomasi I think would be a better fit.

[Darrell D.]

I can't stand his work, but I have to agree he gives the fans what they want, which is standard superhero antics with a dash of gore and splattered brains thrown in for good measure.
As long as he stays in that comfort zone, I'm sure he will be fine.
I can't really see him writing a work like From Hell or The Invisibles.
He's this generation's Marv Wolfman; writing superhero stories which, despite the manufactured hype, ultimately are just that, superhero stories.

[Eumenides]

Geoff Johns strikes me as a predictable, narrow-minded writer obsessed in fixing changes he doesn't like to his favorite characters, and who doesn't understand the human mind very much.

His explanation of why Hal Jordan became evil, that deus ex machina fear bug, was ridiculous and sought to absolve Jordan of any blame. When in fact he went crazy for very understandable reasons, failing to save his hometown from destruction. I believed that could make anyone go crazy, and it lead to one of the most heartbreaking redemptions in comics, his sacrifice in Final Night, which made me cry. A perfect character arc. Johns successfully ruined that, perhaps because he unconsciously realised he could never write anything that emotional (yeah, I love playing shrinks.)

I read a lot of grudges against Moore and Morrison here, attacking them for their experimentalism and erudition, accusing them of only wanting to make people go WTF or marvel at their intelligence, and how they're cold and unemotional, and how Johns writes real great emotions.

But then I think about DC 1,000,000, some issues of Doom Patrol, some issues of Top Ten and Swamp Thing, and other stories by them that have made me cry over the years. Geoff Johns never got any tears out of me.

[Winghead]

When Final Crisis came out you could not fins a good word about Morrison on these boards. People were telling him to give it up and that he had lost it. He does Batman and Robin and he is the golden boy again. At that same time you could not fins a negative word about Johns anywhere, now he's getting the same amount of hate as Bendis and Millar and venturing in to Winick and Loeb territory. Just shows that comic fans are pretty fickle. I for one don't get it considering everyone seems to love Blackest Night and GL still

[Karl O'Neill]

Johns is a brilliant writer.

Most of his peers are gushing at his work at the moment.

He went for dinner with Paul Dini and Grant Morrison last week:biggrin: :cool:

[KevinTBrown]

I think Geoff is a very talented writer for writing comic books. How one determines if he's "good" or not is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think he's had far more hits than misses. To date, I've bought everything the man has written for DC & Marvel, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

My major complaint about him is he likes to try to out-do himself on every project instead of just trying to tell a good, solid story. He doesn't need to try to make everything a "WTF?!?" ending. He needs to work on building something, not just making it all out action. Blackest Night, to date, is coming close to what I feel he SHOULD be doing all the time. Getting that nice mix in. Whereas he bombed badly on Legion of Three Worlds. He forgot to follow the credo of "less is more" in some cases.

Overall, what it comes down to is this: If he's doing stories you enjoy, you'll think he's very good; if he's doing stories you hate, he's horrible. YMMV.

[dumbstruck]

I think Geoff is good, but he has the potential to be so much more as long as he stops trying to show the awesomeness of every character he writes in every issue he writes. As I've mentioned before, I think this tendency inhibits his development as a writer.

[Darrell D.]

When Final Crisis came out you could not fins a good word about Morrison on these boards. People were telling him to give it up and that he had lost it. He does Batman and Robin and he is the golden boy again. At that same time you could not fins a negative word about Johns anywhere, now he's getting the same amount of hate as Bendis and Millar and venturing in to Winick and Loeb territory. Just shows that comic fans are pretty fickle. I for one don't get it considering everyone seems to love Blackest Night and GL still

I don't remember not finding a good word for Final Crisis on these boards. In fact, a lot people liked the series, and posted why they liked it. And a lot of people didn't like it, and posted why they didn't.
That usually is the case with creative works. Not everyone likes Blackest Night, for example, and several people have posted to that effect, and people have posted that they are enjoying it.

[NickFury90]

The thing with writers being hated every time they write an event, is because with their non-event work, you could just ignore it. With big, heavily hyped and marketed events that everyone and their wannabe comic book critic grandma is talking about, you feel enticed to read it and see what the fuss is about. More people buying = more opinions being posted = more negativity. Its simple math.

[Alex L]

The thing with writers being hated every time they write an event, is because with their non-event work, you could just ignore it. With big, heavily hyped and marketed events that everyone and their wannabe comic book critic grandma is talking about, you feel enticed to read it and see what the fuss is about. More people buying = more opinions being posted = more negativity. Its simple math.

I would add that of late, Big Events also spill over into regular books that people are reading.

Batman/Superman (a book for which there has been some debate as to whether it fits into current continuity) now has a Blackest Night Tie-In label across the top of it.

During the build to Infinite Crisis, it seemed every title was a OMAC Project or Day of Vengeance or Rann-Thanagarian War Tie-In.

[Jarath]

When Final Crisis came out you could not fins a good word about Morrison on these boards. People were telling him to give it up and that he had lost it. He does Batman and Robin and he is the golden boy again. At that same time you could not fins a negative word about Johns anywhere, now he's getting the same amount of hate as Bendis and Millar and venturing in to Winick and Loeb territory. Just shows that comic fans are pretty fickle. I for one don't get it considering everyone seems to love Blackest Night and GL still

I don't think this is true at all.

Morrison it a polarising writer and there are those who love and hate him, kind of like marmite.

Johns seems to have far more fans than haters if you take this board as an example. Yes there are those who don't like his work but compared to Loeb, Winnick and Bendis he comes across as practically a saint.

One of the few writers who gets more love is probably Gail Simone, at least from what I've read on here.

[Ilostmyplace]

When Final Crisis came out you could not fins a good word about Morrison on these boards. People were telling him to give it up and that he had lost it. He does Batman and Robin and he is the golden boy again. At that same time you could not fins a negative word about Johns anywhere, now he's getting the same amount of hate as Bendis and Millar and venturing in to Winick and Loeb territory. Just shows that comic fans are pretty fickle. I for one don't get it considering everyone seems to love Blackest Night and GL still

Well, Final Crisis was pretty bad. And Batman and Robin is doing good but it's leaving Most of the other Bat-titles screwed. Just like with the mess with Final Crisis and Morrison's X-Men he seemed to like going out of continuity with all the other writers and have his fans gang up on them so it make it that only Morrison can write X-Men, or that only Morrison can understand Batman. Leaving all the other writers doing X-titles and Bat-titles getting screwed. I already had a long talk with this one idiot Morrison fan that keep telling me that Bob Kane could never understand Batman, that only Morrison can understand him. Oh and he went on to say that Bob Kane and bid nothing important for Batman (besides being the guy that created Batman), that only Morrison was the only one that did any thing important for Batman. The idiots out there these days.:frown:

[Ilostmyplace]

I think Geoff is a very talented writer for writing comic books. How one determines if he's "good" or not is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think he's had far more hits than misses. To date, I've bought everything the man has written for DC & Marvel, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

My major complaint about him is he likes to try to out-do himself on every project instead of just trying to tell a good, solid story. He doesn't need to try to make everything a "WTF?!?" ending. He needs to work on building something, not just making it all out action. Blackest Night, to date, is coming close to what I feel he SHOULD be doing all the time. Getting that nice mix in. Whereas he bombed badly on Legion of Three Worlds. He forgot to follow the credo of "less is more" in some cases.

Overall, what it comes down to is this: If he's doing stories you enjoy, you'll think he's very good; if he's doing stories you hate, he's horrible. YMMV.

I do agree. Comics these days have become more of a WTF then trying to tell a good solid story, like they used to. And I do find that sad really. :frown:

[Free-Man]

I have a mixed opinion of his work. There are a lot of things that I love, like his Teen Titans and JSA run, but I've never been a fan of the way he writes Wonder Woman, or the way he wrote Young Justice.

[SeritoNiN]

I personally feel Johns best days are behind him at this point and he's getting burnt out.

[noh-varr]

Well, Final Crisis was pretty bad. And Batman and Robin is doing good but it's leaving Most of the other Bat-titles screwed. Just like with the mess with Final Crisis and Morrison's X-Men he seemed to like going out of continuity with all the other writers and have his fans gang up on them so it make it that only Morrison can write X-Men, or that only Morrison can understand Batman. Leaving all the other writers doing X-titles and Bat-titles getting screwed. I already had a long talk with this one idiot Morrison fan that keep telling me that Bob Kane could never understand Batman, that only Morrison can understand him. Oh and he went on to say that Bob Kane and bid nothing important for Batman (besides being the guy that created Batman), that only Morrison was the only one that did any thing important for Batman. The idiots out there these days.:frown:

How is Batman and Robin screwing the other Batman titles? It's not messing with the whole Black Mask storyline, that is left to Batman. It's not demonizing Tim Drake, so Red Robin is still doing well. Streets of Gotham is telling it's own story, as is the Sirens book. None of these books are counter acting the others. Besides your blind hatred for Morrison what is your reasoning here?

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

I was actually quite a fan back in the day (his Flash, JSA, & Hawkman earlier on in the decade), but now he just bores me.

In fact, truth be told, I'm not sure exactly what I'd think of the above-mentioned works by him if I were reading them today.

[Alex L]

I personally feel Johns best days are behind him at this point and he's getting burnt out.

I thought so, too, but World of New Krypton seems to be firing on all (or at least most) cylinders at this point. And that was Johns setting up the status quo and letting other writers run with the concept.

I suppose this is what I'd like to see more from Johns. Come up with the big crazy wacky plan because that's what he's good at, have Johns build the framework and have others fill in the rest.

[Carter Hall]

Yes. Yes he is.

[Bodhi M.]

Short answer: hell yes!!!!!!

[Superbeast]

From what I understand from Kevin O'Neill's open mic night at Islington library, Moore doesn't dislike Johns. He dislikes DC making any money from his ideas at all given the way he feels he has been treated. It's not like Moore actively dislikes Geoff Johns, he dislikes how DC have done business with him and doesn't what them to profit from his work or ideas these days.

Geoff is a silver age fanboy who makes up bad names for interesting characters. However he has a playful writing style and knows his stuff through and through so can deliver interesting stories I enjoy. That good? No. Very good when he's enjoying the work? Yes. However Infinite Crisis is still way scrappy for it's own damn good.

[Ilostmyplace]

From what I understand from Kevin O'Neill's open mic night at Islington library, Moore doesn't dislike Johns. He dislikes DC making any money from his ideas at all given the way he feels he has been treated. It's not like Moore actively dislikes Geoff Johns, he dislikes how DC have done business with him and doesn't what them to profit from his work or ideas these days.

What about Marvel when Joe Quesada and Mark Millar copied Alan Moore's Watchmen with Marvel Civil War???

[Freakzeek]

What about Marvel when Joe Quesada and Mark Millar copied Alan Moore's Watchmen with Marvel Civil War???

How do you figure, Mark Millar Copied Alan Moore?

[Darrell D.]

What about Marvel when Joe Quesada and Mark Millar copied Alan Moore's Watchmen with Marvel Civil War???

Uh, what?
Civil War and Watchmen are very far and away apart from each other.
If there are any similarities, I would be hard pressed to find them.
Maybe you could enlighten me?

[Superbeast]

What about Marvel when Joe Quesada and Mark Millar copied Alan Moore's Watchmen with Marvel Civil War???

I didn't bother to ask stupid questions, sorry.

[dupersuper]

He went for dinner with Paul Dini and Grant Morrison last week:biggrin: :cool:

Oh, to be a fly on that wall...


I don't remember not finding a good word for Final Crisis on these boards. In fact, a lot people liked the series, and posted why they liked it. And a lot of people didn't like it, and posted why they didn't.
That usually is the case with creative works. Not everyone likes Blackest Night, for example, and several people have posted to that effect, and people have posted that they are enjoying it.

I'm sure you can find fans and critics of both series, but the ratios would be very different...



During the build to Infinite Crisis, it seemed every title was a OMAC Project or Day of Vengeance or Rann-Thanagarian War Tie-In.

Don't forget Villains United.


I have a mixed opinion of his work. There are a lot of things that I love, like his Teen Titans and JSA run, but I've never been a fan of the way he writes Wonder Woman, or the way he wrote Young Justice.

But...the only place he wrote Young Justice characters was Teen Titans...:confused:

[Three]

*Reads topic title*

*ignores discussion*

Yes.

[Paul Newell]

qand for the second time a topic like this turns to insults. Time for it to end.