Star Trek movie (2009)

[Ontir]

Yeah, the horrors of "New Trek" have been talked to death.
Until Abrams, Kurtzman & Orci unleash their next assault, there's not much to talk about.

[passer-by]

I think you just didn't look far enough back. Or the Search function gave you a false negative. Cuz most forum search tools are ridiculously finicky.

Movie was discussed plenty back when in was in theaters. Long thread about it.

I'll say!
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=134624&highlight=Trek

[Jared]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0y63Kvds8

One of the deleted scenes, I've seen more floating around youtube but the quality ones seem to have been taken down. The only one I feel that really would be worth putting back in the movie is a setup to the scene of Kirk stealing the car.

[Treqqor]

Yeah, the horrors of "New Trek" have been talked to death.
Until Abrams, Kurtzman & Orci unleash their next assault, there's not much to talk about.

I've never been very good at defining irony, I admit it... but would this post count?

Going out of ones way to bash something they say also has nothing to talk about?

[Ontir]

Weird syntax, but anyway...

The same crew responsible for "New Trek" is coming back to do "New Trek 2."
I've said everything I had to say about how bad the last one was, and when there's a new one, should I bother to see it, I'll talk about that one as well. When the film was first in theatres, there was a great deal of discussion, but as that's done, the discussion died down, which is why the thread wasn't readily visible to the guy who posted the new and now merged thread.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally there's going to be some novels which will continue the story begun in the film as long as they leave things the way they were. One will deal with the Vulcan survivors, from what I've heard. Also novels from the prime timeline will still be published including a novel about Kirk's romance with Carol, a pike novel, a Saavik novel, and 24th century(TNG, DS9, Voy) novels dealing with the Typhon pact storyline.


Also, some nifty stuff has surfaced such as Nutrek designs for the Gorn and Salt Vampire, and apparentally Wil Wheaton did some ADR for part of the film. Too bad they didn't show up in the film, one common criticism of a lot of Trek is that many of the aliens are too human-looking, whereas Star Wars and Doctor Who have been more inventive with alien life. Although there are some nifty alien crewmembers in several Star Trek comics, even a Horta in some of DC's older stuff!

[Jared]

IIRC, while Roddenberry was alive he imposed restrictions on just how alien any alien species could look, (not counting the monsters, I guess). There were rules like no extra eyes, limbs, and fingers. I believe this continued on through the TNG+ shows even after he died, whether out of respect or simply budget concerns I don't know.

[Alexrules]

I've seen every Trek movie and loved this one. I noticed on the DVD they talk about Star Wars of all things, seeing how they can use what Star Wars has done for them. They better be careful with that.

[Ontir]

IIRC, while Roddenberry was alive he imposed restrictions on just how alien any alien species could look, (not counting the monsters, I guess). There were rules like no extra eyes, limbs, and fingers. I believe this continued on through the TNG+ shows even after he died, whether out of respect or simply budget concerns I don't know.

A lot of that had to do with budget on the original series. The network was very afraid of the cost, and one of the way he countered that was to tell them they'd only be going to M-Class Planets, where life would have evolved similarly to humanity. No need for spacesuits, no expensive creatures to animate/operate.

One of the main problems with this new film is that the people behind it wanted to make "Star Wars" and had to settle for Trek. It shows. Badly.

[The Batman]

One of the main problems with this new film is that the people behind it wanted to make "Star Wars" and had to settle for Trek. It shows. Badly.

In terms of tone, or in terms of plot (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1910892)?

[Jared]

One of the main problems with this new film is that the people behind it wanted to make "Star Wars" and had to settle for Trek. It shows.

Yeah, it led to them making a film that was actually exciting. Bastards. :biggrin:

[NaruHina12]

What the hell is wrong with Star Trek XI? It was action packed, the characters were well written, the plot was good, the special effects were wonderful.

Purest hatred of this does not make any sense.

[Cyke]

One of the main problems with this new film is that the people behind it wanted to make "Star Wars" and had to settle for Trek. It shows. Badly.

It's only fair; George Lucas credits Trek with quite a bit of inspiration for Star Wars. Additionally, Lucas' ILM house is responsible for the special effects of 7 of the 11 Trek films (note that three of the four films not done by ILM were coincidentally all critical and/or financial stinkers -- Final Frontier, Insurrection, and Nemesis).

Additionally, I don't see the problem with having more alien "aliens" on Trek could be or how that would make the film any more like Star Wars, lest we forget the cast of the Star Trek animated series from the 70s, as well as Species 8472.

[Ontir]

Being inspired by the look of something, or how they handled certain aspects is one thing, but Abrams et al were largely doing "Star Wars," and said as much in a few interviews, the Creative Screenwriting podcast among them. When they weren't doing "Wars," they were trying to make the original cast shoe-horn into "Next Generation" ideas as much as possible. It's a muddled hodge-podge, aside from the generally bad writing of the bulk of the script and the screw-ups that come with choosing to connect your re-launch to the original continuity, but then blowing it, repeatedly.

[Cyke]

Being inspired by the look of something, or how they handled certain aspects is one thing, but Abrams et al were largely doing "Star Wars," and said as much in a few interviews, the Creative Screenwriting podcast among them. When they weren't doing "Wars," they were trying to make the original cast shoe-horn into "Next Generation" ideas as much as possible. It's a muddled hodge-podge, aside from the generally bad writing of the bulk of the script and the screw-ups that come with choosing to connect your re-launch to the original continuity, but then blowing it, repeatedly.

I don't think the writing was overall bad (aside from the unnecessary slapstick of course, but you can track Kirk and Spock's character beats quite easily), and there weren't many screw-ups to the original continuity at least compared to past films (I dare you to list them... I've got Memory Alpha bookmarked!), but there's nothing wrong with referencing Star Wars in the creation process, either. The film still has Trek ideals that Star Wars doesn't have: overcoming racism, utilizing self-exploration, and your standard dose of theoretical technobabble to save the day. Plus, a score on 83 (Universal Acclaim) ain't bad, either.

Aside from the pew pew phasers and the farm boy saving the day (And Kirk was always a farm boy who predated Luke Skywalker by 11 years), there's not much apparent Star Wars to this flick.

The hate is strong in this one :)

[Sighphi]

The film still has Trek ideals that Star Wars doesn't have: overcoming racism, utilizing self-exploration, and your standard dose of theoretical technobabble to save the day.



LOL!
What Star Wars have you been watching.

[Ontir]

I don't think the writing was overall bad (aside from the unnecessary slapstick of course, but you can track Kirk and Spock's character beats quite easily), and there weren't many screw-ups to the original continuity at least compared to past films (I dare you to list them... I've got Memory Alpha bookmarked!), but there's nothing wrong with referencing Star Wars in the creation process, either. The film still has Trek ideals that Star Wars doesn't have: overcoming racism, utilizing self-exploration, and your standard dose of theoretical technobabble to save the day. Plus, a score on 83 (Universal Acclaim) ain't bad, either.

Aside from the pew pew phasers and the farm boy saving the day (And Kirk was always a farm boy who predated Luke Skywalker by 11 years), there's not much apparent Star Wars to this flick.

The hate is strong in this one :)

There are a number of "Star Wars"-esque things in this film, I had a list when I first saw it, but the one telling thing that leaps out at me now is "Spock's" wretched line about the sun that threatened "the Galaxy." VERY "Star Wars," and utterly non-sensical. As for the ideals of "Trek," they are not well displayed in this film at all. From the one-note pacing, to the naming of the nemesis, "Nero," to an inability to keep track of their own continuity, to a desire to mix "Star Wars" with "the Next Generation," they derailed any content, all depth, and any believability. Something that could and should have been on parr with 'the Dark Knight" is instead almost the equal of "Stargate." OH! ...and where the hell was the Warp Core? How do you have Warp Engines with no Warp Core? That horrible factory they tried to pass off as Engineering, which would never fit inside that ship... pathetic.

[Cyke]

]There are a number of "Star Wars"-esque things in this film, I had a list when I first saw it, but the one telling thing that leaps out at me now is "Spock's" wretched line about the sun that threatened "the Galaxy." VERY "Star Wars," and utterly non-sensical.

Granted, red matter doesn't make sense scientifically (like much of Trek anyway) but i'm also glad that they didn't spend a huge amount of time explaining it, either. It was just a more glorified McGuffin.

But so what if it threatens the galaxy anyway? How many times has each and every hero captain in Trek saved the galaxy as opposed to Earth or the Federation from some spatial anomaly or invasion or natural disaster or timeline change? Even Archer managed to save the galaxy and arguably a multiverse. And Shatner Kirk has been saving the galaxy much before Star Wars came into the scene.

If you have the list, I'd be interested in seeing it.


As for the ideals of "Trek," they are not well displayed in this film at all. From the one-note pacing, to the naming of the nemesis, "Nero," to an inability to keep track of their own continuity, to a desire to mix "Star Wars" with "the Next Generation," they derailed any content, all depth, and any believability. Something that could and should have been on parr with 'the Dark Knight" is instead almost the equal of "Stargate."[/SIZE][/FONT]

I think you're mixing up your complaints without really addressing what makes them complaints in the first place. How are the ideals of Trek not well represented here? (Chekov and Scotty's technobabble saves, Spock's constant struggle as a biracial minority, Kirk and Spock both having to discover things within themselves in order to proceed) What about the pacing makes it one-note? Where's this inability to track their own continuity? (this I can believe, but still, you're grouping it together instead of explaining what it is that you see) And what's the specific problem with mixing Star Wars with TNG anyway? (DS9 comes to mind as a success story)


OH! ...and where the hell was the Warp Core? How do you have Warp Engines with no Warp Core? That horrible factory they tried to pass off as Engineering, which would never fit inside that ship... pathetic.

We did see the warp core, when Scotty ejected it into the black hole. We saw eight tubes being launched, all components of the core. It may be different than what we've seen in the past, but there's nothing in past continuity to contradict a multi-part warp core either. (rather, it seems that if you put all the parts together in a line, it makes a core that's about as big as the warp cores we've seen in the past).

I don't like the design of Engineering either (some of the original sketches echoed a mix of TNG/TOS, and I liked those a lot more), but I've read from Navy personnel how they accepted the design as it was closer to modern day design. And even then, the design of one area of the ship shouldn't be enough to damn the whole movie (I've issues with The Enterprise-E's interior design, despite the greatness of First Contact).

[dumbstruck]

Aside from the pew pew phasers and the farm boy saving the day (And Kirk was always a farm boy who predated Luke Skywalker by 11 years), there's not much apparent Star Wars to this flick.

The hate is strong in this one :)


This just goes to show how much attention the other poster gave the special features. They didn't say they were trying to turn Trek into Wars. What they said was they wanted to take the momentum and pacing of Star Wars and apply it to the traditionally slower paced Trek as a way of making Trek marketable to new and modern audiences.

[dumbstruck]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=4] From the one-note pacing, to the naming of the nemesis, "Nero,"


Considering The Romulan Empire is an obvious transplant of the Roman Empire, why is it so wrong to have a Romulan character named after one of the most infamous of Roman emperors.

[NaruHina12]

Being inspired by the look of something, or how they handled certain aspects is one thing, but Abrams et al were largely doing "Star Wars," and said as much in a few interviews, the Creative Screenwriting podcast among them. When they weren't doing "Wars," they were trying to make the original cast shoe-horn into "Next Generation" ideas as much as possible. It's a muddled hodge-podge, aside from the generally bad writing of the bulk of the script and the screw-ups that come with choosing to connect your re-launch to the original continuity, but then blowing it, repeatedly.
Bad writing? What the hell? The plot was above average, all the characters were right!

And using Star Wars as inspiration is the thing that Star Trek needed to get a kick in the pants to get out of the slump that was created in Nemesis and Enterprise.

[Cyke]

This just goes to show how much attention the other poster gave the special features. They didn't say they were trying to turn Trek into Wars. What they said was they wanted to take the momentum and pacing of Star Wars and apply it to the traditionally slower paced Trek as a way of making Trek marketable to new and modern audiences.

And using Wars as a way to make Trek marketable to audiences definitely worked, as we've seen.

I'd argue that while not overt or intentional, this same philosophy helped First Contact too, both in terms of critical and financial success. It was faster paced than previous Treks with a better balance of action and story than Generations (and Nemesis, in hindsight).


Considering The Romulan Empire is an obvious transplant of the Roman Empire, why is it so wrong to have a Romulan character named after one of the most infamous of Roman emperors.

If the movie took a cue from Nemesis and called him Praetor Nero, then the whole Roman motif would've slapped us in the face :)

To be fair to Ontir though, imagine centuries from now in which a story's villain was named after one of the US presidents. That's not exactly subtle...

[dumbstruck]

And using Wars as a way to make Trek marketable to audiences definitely worked, as we've seen.

I'd argue that while not overt or intentional, this same philosophy helped First Contact too, both in terms of critical and financial success. It was faster paced than previous Treks with a better balance of action and story than Generations.



If the movie called him Praetor Nero, then the whole Roman motif would've slapped us in the face :)

To be fair to Ontir though, imagine centuries from now in which a story's villain was named after one of the US presidents. That's not exactly subtle...


Even of the original six movies, the "evens" which are the best, are the ones that have a quicker pace. Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country all had quicker moving plots. First Contact had it too, but then they lost it with Insurrection and Nemesis.

As to Nero, I'm just saying the name is in keeping with what's already been established with the Romulan Empire. It fits.

[Cyke]

Even of the original six movies, the "evens" which are the best, are the ones that have a quicker pace. Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country all had quicker moving plots. First Contact had it too, but then they lost it with Insurrection and Nemesis.

In my opinion, First Contact was better than TUC and had more action, but I think FC gets the nod because of the character moments rather than the action. TVH definitely had no huge amounts of physical violence (something that Nimoy is rightfully proud of), but by default it doesn't have that balance of action and story that the other evens have.

TWOK has arguably less action, but it's just so well paced and so well written and acted that you really don't notice. One could argue that TWOK's action scenes were better handled than FC as well, but that's all the eye in the beholder.

On a side note, on some level I'm kind of glad that Nemesis and XI shot down that whole "evens are better" rule. The Search for Spock and Generations were fairly average or above average, but they're definitely not the stinkers that the Final Frontier and Insurrection were. And I think the very first film is underrated.

[dumbstruck]

In my opinion, First Contact was better than TUC and had more action, but I think FC gets the nod because of the character moments rather than the action. TVH definitely had no huge amounts of physical violence (something that Nimoy is rightfully proud of), but by default it doesn't have that balance of action and story that the other evens have.

TWOK has arguably less action, but it's just so well paced and so well written and acted that you really don't notice. One could argue that TWOK's action scenes were better handled than FC as well, but that's all the eye in the beholder.

On a side note, on some level I'm kind of glad that Nemesis and XI shot down that whole "evens are better" rule. The Search for Spock and Generations were fairly average or above average, but they're definitely not the stinkers that the Final Frontier and Insurrection were. And I think the very first film is underrated.


The action pieces may not have been there in 4 and 6, but the pacing was tight and the story kept moving. 1, 3, and 5 from a pacing perspective, are pretty darn slow. Same with all TNG flicks other than FC.

[Cyke]

The action pieces may not have been there in 4 and 6, but the pacing was tight and the story kept moving.

Agreed with that. 4 had a whole bunch of light hearted spots and 6 had the intrigue, and both really really helpful from a narrative standpoint. My only real complaint about 6 was the whole prison sequence which seriously hurt the pacing, I feel.


1, 3, and 5 from a pacing perspective, are pretty darn slow. Same with all TNG flicks other than FC.

For 1, I feel just needs to be tweaked up with some editing here and there (also, some personality would be nice). 5 didn't seem that slow to me, and I don't quite have a problem with the pacing. It's just that the story was executed so badly that pacing was one of the least of its worries. 3 starts off slow, but once the plan to steal the Enterprise is underway, the film hits its groove.

Overall,this is my personal list:

Top 3:
1-2. (tied) First Contact and Wrath of Khan
3. The Undiscovered Country

Above average:
4. XI
5. Voyage Home

Average, good for a Sunday afternoon:
6-7 (tied). The Motion Picture & The Search for Spock
8. Generations

Ugh:
9. Nemesis
10. Final Frontier

Two hours of my life that I'll never get back:
11. Insurrection

[Ontir]

Bad writing? What the hell? The plot was above average, all the characters were right!

And using Star Wars as inspiration is the thing that Star Trek needed to get a kick in the pants to get out of the slump that was created in Nemesis and Enterprise.

Dreadful writing. Huge holes, vast leaps of credibility, bad dialogue, and Emmerich-esque pastiche of other, better films, and a true and total lack of understanding of "Kirk" especially, as well as a total buffoon version of "Scotty." The only characters they did anything reasonable with were "Uhura," "New Spock," "Amanda" & "Sarek."

They needed to look at the original series and make sure they kept the depth and the ideas/ideals, not just the visual trappings and sight-gags. They didn't do that, not at all. Barring a re-boot, "Trek" is dead & buried as far as I am concerned, and I'm not alone in that assertion.

[NaruHina12]

I see nothing but pure Purist hatred from you, Ontir. None of your points holds water.

[Cyke]

a true and total lack of understanding of "Kirk" especially

This I would disagree with. In the past, we've seen Kirk steal and crash something much bigger and more valuable than a Corvette (and even get a standing ovation and a rank of captaincy in the process). We've seen Kirk cheat computers and gamble with his life before. We've seen Kirk get smooth with the ladies. We've seen Kirk as a "walking stack of books." We've seen Kirk offer a dying foe a hand of help. We've seen Kirk swagger and reassure Bones and even cross his legs on his command chair, all in one fluid sequence on the bridge.

We get that and more in this film. He's just rougher around the edges because he doesn't have his Starfleet hero of a father guiding him this time around. And yet, there are similarities between both Kirks to the point where Chris Pine is critically lauded for echoing Shatner's bravado, machismo, and intelligence.


"Trek" is dead & buried as far as I am concerned, and I'm not alone in that assertion.

Truth be told, the film's supporters aren't alone in thinking that Trek is alive, well, and rejuvenated, either.

[David Walton]

My wife swore she'd never watch another Trek film with me after I took her to see FC while we were dating.

She started breaking down a bit after she saw the previews for ST, and I finally got her to watch it with me this week.

She enjoyed it. I won't say she loved it, but she liked it. And she said she'd be open to the idea of going to see a sequel in theaters with me.

I think this film is the best Trek yet. It did a lot to both satisfy longtime fans and bring in a new audience.

[Jared]

Ontir, no one is saying you have to love New Trek, but you are clearly just looking for reasons to hate it and get worked up about it and act as if a colossal hit has somehow tanked the franchise. You're the only person who can't see it. I mean, seriously, getting worked up over the use of the word, "galaxy", come on! You keep acting as if the fuzzy science and technobabble of this movie is somehow without precedent. You might be the only person in the world who can truly believe that.

Off the top of my head, there's some bad science from classic Trek:

Star Trek VI has a Klingon moon suddenly blow up, sending a shockwave which travels along a single plane of space. which just happens to be line up with the starship Excelsior.

Star Trek II: The only reason Khan gets to do what he does is that a Starfleet science vessel somehow mistakes the planet he's on for another planet which has exploded within the last 15 years. And that's the movie that for years has been most beloved by purists and casual fans alike.

According to Star Trek V, there's a Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy, in the form of a blue lighting storm in space. No astronomical theory ever supported that.

For that matter, why is that in V they could travel the center of the galaxy in a short amount of time. What did they think this was, Star Wars?! Voyager, taking place years later in a more advanced ship, was hinged on the premise that it would take decades years to get back to Federation space from the other side of the galaxy.

This one is more of a plot hole than bad science, but in Trek IV, when Spock is the only person to identify the alien probe as being whale song (and why is he the first person to do this, surely Earth would have run the signal through every database they have), they never attempt to simply translate it and communicate back with recordings. No, it's right from "it's a whale song" to "we have to sling shot around the sun at warp ten and travel back to the 20th century to grab some whales."

Why did it take until Nemesis for somebody to put seatbelts on the bridge?

[The Batman]

This one is more of a plot hole than bad science, but in Trek IV, when Spock is the only person to identify the alien probe as being whale song (and why is he the first person to do this, surely Earth would have run the signal through every database they have), they never attempt to simply translate it and communicate back with recordings. No, it's right from "it's a whale song" to "we have to sling shot around the sun at warp ten and travel back to the 20th century to grab some whales."



Not to quibble, but they do address this one. Yes they could replicate the sounds easily, but not knowing the language and having no way of learning it, their response would amount to gibberish.

[Jared]

Not to quibble, but they do address this one. Yes they could replicate the sounds easily, but not knowing the language and having no way of learning it, their response would amount to gibberish.

But doesn't that fly in the face of how the Universal Translator is suppossed to work everytime they meet a new species and are instantly able to converse with them?


Oh, and I should note that I did think they should have thrown in some line about how it was some kind of super, super nova that was problem in the future. I think that could be the groundwork for a storyline down the road: someone or something is causing stars to explode in a way that shouldn't be possible.

[Cyke]

But doesn't that fly in the face of how the Universal Translator is suppossed to work everytime they meet a new species and are instantly able to converse with them?

I imagine that it only works on races whose roughly around our developmental level. Aliens like V'Ger, Species 8472, and the Prophets were too advanced for the Universal Translator, and they would often have to speak down to our heroes.

[Captain Smith]

Why did it take until Nemesis for somebody to put seatbelts on the bridge?

The Republican Party of the Federation blocked all safety legislation as an attempt to bring back socialism. George Cheney Bush IV was instrumental in postpoing the legislation.

[The Batman]

But doesn't that fly in the face of how the Universal Translator is suppossed to work everytime they meet a new species and are instantly able to converse with them?



I guess?

I'm really not sure how the universal translators work so I don't know. Maybe it would've been a problem similar to what happened in the Next Generation episode "Darmok" where, because the Tamarian language worked differently than ours, the universal translator was only able to translate words but not their grammar and meaning?

[ChrisIII]

Regarding the supernova, perhaps it's kind of like an exagerrated "Nemesis/Death Star" theory, that a Star's radiation could cause harm to another planet. Doctor Who used this concept in the story 'Silver nemesis' (With Nemesis being a Gallifreyan relic instead of a star) and Star Wars kind of borrowed the term "Death Star".


I think the Countdown comics might explain the nova in more detail.

[The Batman]

Nevermind. ChrisIII ruined it with his timely edit.:frown:

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, I noticed you had already made the same point about the dialogue in the film saying that the song could be simulated, but not really used as a langauge.


There is a novel, "Probe" which goes further into the probe although with all Trek books it's not considered canon.

[NaruHina12]

The supernova was explained in the comic. Basically, the explosion just kept growing at an exponential rate.

[Cyke]

Ugh, I can't stand that comic. The writers were more concerned about fanwankery than telling a decent origin story. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the Narada doesn't need Borg tech at all! It's already got a hundred years' head start on our heroes! Arm one of today's giant oil tankers with modern weapons and that one vessel can probably singlehandedly defeat the navies of World War I.

Additionally, in place of that comic, I would've had a cameo of the Enterprise-E in Spock's flashback mindmeld. But again, that's just me.

Lastly, the supernova doesn't make sense at all -- using a gamma ray burst is not only very real, it does the kind of damage that the story needed from the supernova. It's so concentrated that's basically an energy beam on par with the Power Cosmic, and it's real.

Then again, the supernova's physics don't really matter. After all, this is the same franchise that said flying around the sun would be enough to go back in time :)

[Sighphi]

Not defending the comic but...... pretty sure that they didnt have time to start adding weapons to a mining ship while the galaxy was exploding. Borg tech seemed to be faster.

And flying around the sun isnt what makes you travel through time is the speed generated.

[Cyke]

Hey, Trekkies & Sci-Fi nerds/connoisseurs:

Harlan Ellison wants to help write Star Trek XII? (http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/24/harlan-ellison-wants-to-help-out-with-star-trek-sequel/)

Considering his past legal and creative wranglings with Trek, I'm thinking this is just bravado or a pipe dream. Still, he's Harlan Ellison and he can write whatever he damn well wants, and if Abrams contacts him and everything comes through, it will be great.



I would jump at the chance to work with the inordinately-talented J.J. Abrams on a new STAR TREK film. Yes, I would likely try to steer him toward the original film idea I was asked to pitch, by the late Gene Roddenberry and a production exec whose name I have blissfully flensed from memory (but he had been, if I recall, a hairdresser or clothing designer or ex-boyfriend of someone or other, and he kept trying to press me to include the Mayan Calendar).

(Thanks to M'Sharak)

[DeadXMan]

The Republican Party of the Federation blocked all safety legislation as an attempt to bring back socialism. George Cheney Bush IV was instrumental in postpoing the legislation.

No there were restraints on Kirk's Movie enterprise, along with proper railing well lighted exit signs along with a RAD warning system and psychical barricades if force Fields failed. After The fall of the Klingon empire the more liberal people decided not have such features for the sole reason of death is cheaper then healing the injured.

Case in point the USS Voyager ( AKA the ship of the damned). Where the ship's primarily and only computer Curits of bio neural gel packs were failing cause the ship's cook was making cheese. where even the manual over ride fail to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe4DbUM1G2k

and don't get me started of the genocidal lunatic that captained the NX-01

I'll take the Reagan-est militarization of the federation of the late 23rd century. We might be heartless assholes, but we're safe hartless assholes that know how to drink real drinks and not that pinko synthahol.

[Jared]

Ugh, I can't stand that comic. The writers were more concerned about fanwankery than telling a decent origin story. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the Narada doesn't need Borg tech at all! It's already got a hundred years' head start on our heroes! Arm one of today's giant oil tankers with modern weapons and that one vessel can probably singlehandedly defeat the navies of World War I.

Actually, probably not. I suposse with a major refit you might be able install couple missles which could sink any WWI boat. But you wouldn't have a vessel that could no-sell a barrage from the their big guns.

[Sighphi]

Hey, Trekkies & Sci-Fi nerds/connoisseurs:

Harlan Ellison wants to help write Star Trek XII? (http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/24/harlan-ellison-wants-to-help-out-with-star-trek-sequel/)

Considering his past legal and creative wranglings with Trek, I'm thinking this is just bravado or a pipe dream. Still, he's Harlan Ellison and he can write whatever he damn well wants, and if Abrams contacts him and everything comes through, it will be great.



(Thanks to M'Sharak)

That's weird because the original script had the Guardian of Forever and he said NO!

[Toonimator]

No there were restraints on Kirk's Movie enterprise, along with proper railing well lighted exit signs along with a RAD warning system and psychical barricades if force Fields failed. After The fall of the Klingon empire the more liberal people decided not have such features for the sole reason of death is cheaper then healing the injured.

Case in point the USS Voyager ( AKA the ship of the damned). Where the ship's primarily and only computer Curits of bio neural gel packs were failing cause the ship's cook was making cheese. where even the manual over ride fail to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe4DbUM1G2k

and don't get me started of the genocidal lunatic that captained the NX-01

I'll take the Reagan-est militarization of the federation of the late 23rd century. We might be heartless assholes, but we're safe hartless assholes that know how to drink real drinks and not that pinko synthahol.
After all of that, all I can say is... "Curits"? :biggrin:

Trek's had goofy science and plot holes for ages. Yeah, a supernova that exponentially grows and thus basically reaches warp speed is pretty weird, but it worked well enough for me. Certainly a bit better than a race of human-looking beings with half their skin bright white and half their skin pitch black :tongue:

[Jared]

Trek's had goofy science and plot holes for ages. Yeah, a supernova that exponentially grows and thus basically reaches warp speed is pretty weird, but it worked well enough for me.

I have no problem with that premise either, only with the fact that it wasn't even mentioned in the movie. All we got was Spock saying there was a supernova. A line or two about "quantum energy surge something something" would have helped, really.

[Cyke]

Actually, probably not. I suposse with a major refit you might be able install couple missles which could sink any WWI boat. But you wouldn't have a vessel that could no-sell a barrage from the their big guns.

Well, it can't be that hard to install missile launchers onto an oil rig. And one of the key differences between yesterday's ships and today is the factor of range; ships need not be in visual contact to inflict damage anymore, with the right kind of weaponry onboard. And in Trek, we've seen what 100 years of tech could do, like when the TOS Defiant was blowing up ships from Star Trek: Enterprise left and right.

[NaruHina12]

Well, it can't be that hard to install missile launchers onto an oil rig. And one of the key differences between yesterday's ships and today is the factor of range; ships need not be in visual contact to inflict damage anymore, with the right kind of weaponry onboard. And in Trek, we've seen what 100 years of tech could do, like when the TOS Defiant was blowing up ships from Star Trek: Enterprise left and right.
However, the USS Defiant was a Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser. It was already a warship built with everything it needed to kick 22nd Century ass.

The Narada was a fricking mining ship. Low powered, low shielded, slow, and little to no weaponry. It needed, needed a massive tech boost to even stand a chance against 23rd Century warships. Hence why the Borg modifications makes sense, since Borg Technology could turn a freighter into a warship, it could turn a Mining Vessel into a fleet destroyer.

[Cyke]

However, the USS Defiant was a Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser. It was already a warship built with everything it needed to kick 22nd Century ass.

The Narada was a fricking mining ship. Low powered, low shielded, slow, and little to no weaponry. It needed, needed a massive tech boost to even stand a chance against 23rd Century warships. Hence why the Borg modifications makes sense, since Borg Technology could turn a freighter into a warship, it could turn a Mining Vessel into a fleet destroyer.

(This is me being anal and nitpicky, but I wouldn't classify the TOS Defiant or any other Constitution as a warship, as every Constitution we saw had science, exploratory, and diplomatic capabilities. Sure, they could fight, but they weren't dedicated warships like the DS9 Defiant. Compare that to the ships we saw her fight in the 22nd Century -- they were all from the super-violent Mirror Universe and thus all had to be true warships)

Anyway, back on topic :)

I don't mind the Narada getting a tech boost, but I think 24th century Romulan weaponry would have been enough, the Borg being just fanwank overkill. Nothing in the movie depended on any mention of the Borg; the film makes no reference to them and the Narada being from the future was enough of an explanation. The Borg tech served no real plot purpose, whereas the Narada's native era was heavily referenced several times as a factor of its strength. Oftentimes for the sake of a good story, less is more. We don't need a detailed explanation for why things are, as long as it serves and furthers the plot (like Genesis, Trek's most famous MacGuffin).

(that and the Narada seems to get disabled by the Kelvin and then damaged by the JJprise a little too easily for Borg tech)

To me, having the Romulans upgrade the Narada with their own weapons and shields would have sufficed. Even when Romulus was destroyed, there was still a period of time between its destruction and Nero going after Spock (plus, this is Trek tech we're talking about here -- everyone can modify anything at the speed of plot), so I still there there could have been time for the military to refit the Narada.

Or, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind the Borg upgrades had there been a reason to mention it in the film, but there really is none. As said before, the film depends on the ship being from the future and that's all that's needed. If Nimoy Spock had said the Narada was armed with Borg tech and explained what "Borg" was to the audience, then maybe I could see a reason, but even that would be inappropriate exposition that would slow down the narrative.

To me, this is like Star Wars EU-style revisioning -- something already happened on screen, but in an effort to make it even "kewler," it turns out something more drastic happened off screen.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally in the latest IDW comic series based on the movie continuity the Narada and V'ger meet since V'ger senses a kindred spirit because they both have Borg tech or something like that.

[DeadXMan]

Apparentally in the latest IDW comic series based on the movie continuity the Narada and V'ger meet since V'ger senses a kindred spirit because they both have Borg tech or something like that.

yeah in Shanter's Return V'ger made it too the borg homeworld. it's unofficially officially in cannon.

[Michael P]

Ugh, I can't stand that comic. The writers were more concerned about fanwankery than telling a decent origin story. I've said this before and I'll say it again: the Narada doesn't need Borg tech at all! It's already got a hundred years' head start on our heroes! Arm one of today's giant oil tankers with modern weapons and that one vessel can probably singlehandedly defeat the navies of World War I.

Additionally, in place of that comic, I would've had a cameo of the Enterprise-E in Spock's flashback mindmeld. But again, that's just me.

Lastly, the supernova doesn't make sense at all -- using a gamma ray burst is not only very real, it does the kind of damage that the story needed from the supernova. It's so concentrated that's basically an energy beam on par with the Power Cosmic, and it's real.

Then again, the supernova's physics don't really matter. After all, this is the same franchise that said flying around the sun would be enough to go back in time :)

The part about that comic that bugs me is Data being re-installed in B-4's body. Um, doesn't that basically entail murdering B-4?

[DeadXMan]

The part about that comic that bugs me is Data being re-installed in B-4's body. Um, doesn't that basically entail murdering B-4?

I say they merged and he was gonna call himself 'Beta" until he realized it would cause the same amount of snickering from the humans when the Hermats created "Sheeit" to define their gender to terrains

[Cyke]

I say they merged and he was gonna call himself 'Beta" until he realized it would cause the same amount of snickering from the humans when the Hermats created "Sheeit" to define their gender to terrains

The sad thing about "Beta" is that two more androids named DVD and Blu-Ray weren't far behind...

[DeadXMan]

say" Mr. Beta "five times fast

[Jared]

Apparentally in the latest IDW comic series based on the movie continuity the Narada and V'ger meet since V'ger senses a kindred spirit because they both have Borg tech or something like that.

Now that sounds like a bad fanfic.

Did anyone else immedately think "Orc Troopers" when they saw the Klingon guards in the deleted scene? I like the design, wouldn't mind seeing soldier-variants of it if there's Klingon baddies in the sequel.

[The Batman]

Now that sounds like a bad fanfic.


Worse, bad slash fanfic.

[NaruHina12]

Worse, bad slash fanfic.
There is only one thing worse than Bad Slash Fanfiction-Bad Twilight Fanfiction.

[The Batman]

There's bad Twilight fanfic? How would you ever be able to tell it apart from the real deal?

[NaruHina12]

There's bad Twilight fanfic? How would you ever be able to tell it apart from the real deal?
Sadly, yes. There are fangirls who write worse than Stephanie Meyer.

[Jared]

So I read Countown and Nero, and while both stories do flesh out the villain and explain the gaps, I can understand why most of the information was left out of the movie. Nero's imprisonment and escape actually makes some sense. The V'Ger connection still feels kind of gratuitous, but it's not as bad as it initially sounded.

[Cyke]

So I read Countown and Nero, and while both stories do flesh out the villain and explain the gaps, I can understand why most of the information was left out of the movie. Nero's imprisonment and escape actually makes some sense. The V'Ger connection still feels kind of gratuitous, but it's not as bad as it initially sounded.

I haven't seen/read about Nero's imprisonment, but I'm quite interested. From what Abrams has said in the past, keeping that extensive footage in meant a whole new storyarc that might have overloaded the movie.

[ChrisIII]

Looking at the deleted scenes, a lot of the stuff in them would've been redundant-for example, the dialogue/stuff in the Klingon scenes largely is explained in dialogue elsewhere in the film. It would've been like the Jabba the Hutt scene reinserted into Star Wars, where the majority of the scene is dialogue we heard in the Greedo scene.There's an interesting "Man-E-Faces" alien though. Rura Penthe, as oppossed to the Hoth look in TUC, kind of looks like some kind of factory (Perhaps the Bud factory they were using for the bowels of the Kelvin and Enterprise).


We also learn that "Johnny" is apparentally Kirk's older brother, the one seen dead in TOS (Played by Shatner with a fake stache BTW). Also the scene seems to have Kirk actually be the bookworm alluded to in the TOS pilot, until the car inciddent.

The spock birth is different than the version in Final Frontier; Sarek apparentally arrives late and doesn't say the "So Human" stuff. So there's another change in the timeline.

Some fans have assumed that what happens in the film is that this is in fact an alternate reality as well as an alternate timeline. Meaning, it's not quite the prime timeline with a different past but a whole different reality altogether.



www.ign.com has posted some interesting speculation regarding the sequel. I kind of like the "Uhura dies" speculation, since that would serve as an interesting parrarel to Spock's death and could give us a darker Spock than what we have in the original TOS. Not saying that they should make Spock a villain ala Vader, just a thought.Nimoy-Spock, despite being stuck in an alternate timeline, was pretty well-off, he still had both his parents and his planet, learned to balance both his sides etc. It's interesting that he's not quite the often cold guy from TOS anymore in the film, but he's been kind of evolving from that since TMP anyway. I think that's partially due to the actors gaining more control over the characters. On the other hand, TUC aside, Kirk/Shatner became less like the confident captain and more hammy with each film.


I wonder if somewhere down the line, perhaps when Trek undergoes another hiatus, we'll have the prime timeline meet the Nu timeline in a novel or comic. Interestingly enough, there was a comic back in the 80s where the TOS-era crew met the movie-era crew (Who in the comics continuity crewed the Excelsior between the films).

[Toonimator]

The part about that comic that bugs me is Data being re-installed in B-4's body. Um, doesn't that basically entail murdering B-4?
Not necessarily. The end of Nemesis, as I recall (and I don't recall very much of it) had Data's memories downloaded into B-4. Yet B-4 was still acting like himself, until he started humming/singing a song that Data had hummed/sang/played earlier in the film, letting Picard know that Data 'survived'.

It could be that the Data programming gradually emerged in B-4, and maybe allowed B-4 to evolve faster than Data had and eventually he realizes what's happening and decides to sacrifice his 'individuality' by just becoming Data. He might think that his own "B-4" memories will still be intact; it'd just be role reversal. Instead of B-4 carrying around and being influenced a bit by a chunk of information that is 'Data', Data would be carrying around a chunk of information that is 'B-4' and Data's probably got some better ideas on what to do with it than B-4 does; like, build another android body and plop B-4's info into it. Data's learned a lot about his 'family' over the years, and how his father's stuff worked. It's also been a decade or two (by Countdown time) since he tried building a daughter; building another body for his brother may not be out of the realm of possibility. I don't think 'murder' of B-4 was intended by having Data show up in Countdown...

...anyway... Narada & V'ger? That sounds all kinds of silly.

[Jared]

Rura Penthe, as oppossed to the Hoth look in TUC, kind of looks like some kind of factory (Perhaps the Bud factory they were using for the bowels of the Kelvin and Enterprise).

It could be that the Hoth-climate is seasonal, or that in ST VI they were at a facility on a different part of the planet.


www.ign.com has posted some interesting speculation regarding the sequel. I kind of like the "Uhura dies" speculation, since that would serve as an interesting parrarel to Spock's death and could give us a darker Spock than what we have in the original TOS.
[/QUOTE]

I think they've already done enough to darken Spock by killing his mom and obliterating him homeworld. They just managed to make Uhura a relevant, interesting character for the first time ever, I'd be pissed if they killed her off.

[Cyke]

Just found this out:

National Board of Review Names 'Star Trek' one of Top 11 Films of the Year. (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=news&articleid=VR1118012127)

George Clooney's 'Up in the Air' is the #1 film. Films 2-11 are listed in alphabetical order. I'm not sure how I feel about Trek being up on that list, but hey, it's good press.

[Libaax]

I saw it last night since my sister rented the DVD.

I was hugely surprised since i didnt really believe the rave reviews of the fans i have seen in forums.

I have been a fan of the old show, not since then really. Not that i was around in the 60s but i thought it was fun when i saw the re-runs.

This movie felt like they updated the series really well. I thought they nailed most characters specially Zachary Quinto was great as Spock. It was surprisingly well written story for a SF blockbuster in hollywood. I kept smiling how it felt like watching a real awesome ST movie.

Leonard Nimroy's role was a surprise to me since i didnt read anything about the film before. It was very cool seeing him act well in his old role.

Really its the only big blockbuster movie i have seen this year that i hope for a strong sequel. I only wish i saw it in the cinema....

[steelio2006]

is the special edition of the dvd worth picking up, does anyone know?

[StoneGold]

I
I think they've already done enough to darken Spock by killing his mom and obliterating him homeworld. They just managed to make Uhura a relevant, interesting character for the first time ever, I'd be pissed if they killed her off.

I beg to differ.

http://www.jabootu.com/images/stfan.jpg

[DeadXMan]

I beg to differ.

http://www.jabootu.com/images/stfan.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/LordKonpaku/id_hit_that.jpg