X-Factor #50 *Review/Spoilers*

[coconutphone]

Wow this is the big finale for the current arc's that's been running for about a year now.

Big things answered in this issue:

-the secret to Falcone's final phase and it's ultimate end
-Falcone's origin
-how Trevor Fitzroy got the way he did
-the truth about Layla, her powers and how she 'knows stuff'.

I'd give it a strong 9/10. I would have liked more with the rest of the team but once Cortex got yanked into the future that story basically ended so it's understandable why it's not touched on. The Madrox/Cortex stuff is great and even pokes a jab at Madrox's desire for more 'noir'. Doom's motivations are still murky but reasonably 'Doomish'. Some great Layla stuff and some great Ruby moments.

Detailed info inside:


-Doom controlled-Cortex manages to kill Fitzroy and Ruby blasts Cortex out of the building, yelling at Madrox to get Layla back in there now. Madrox = confused
-Old Man Doom has taken control of Cyclops as he's more machine than man now and sics him on Ruby. They fight and she knocks him out using a trick he taught her.
-Layla confronts Cortex with veiled threats about what she can do. Madrox tells her he'll handle his dupe. Madrox wants to throw down with him using their fists. Cortex pulls out a gun and shoots him.
-we learn that when Falcone was a boy and away visiting his grandma his parents were killed and their house destroyed, presumably by mutants. he hates mutants more than just about anyone. Elder Tryp came to visit him and promised to help him get rid of all the mutants but it will take time.
-with Cortex back in the future Falcone is able to track him in the midst of the Summers HQ. He's orders Operation Clean Sweep (his ultimate plan)
-Layla reveals her true mutant power. It's not 'knowing stuff'. It's the ability to bring life to the dead. The downside is what she birngs back has no soul or conscious. That's why she's hesitant to use it on people but does on Fitzroy since that's what's supposed to happen.
-one of the healers in the Summers crew heals Madrox but Cortex attacks (kills?) him. Madrox and Cortex are about to fight some more when they see Falcone show up with his Sentinels. Cortex epxlains that this is his plan: all those sentinels they've beating easily were trojan horses. Each time one was destroyed it dispersed particles to any nearby mutant. Now these super sentinels are drawing in anything with those particles into portals within the sentinels sending them off into an unknown abyss.
-Madrox uses tons of dupes in a big chain to try and keep everyone from failling in. Cortex is about to blast him when from below the dock a hand grabs him. It's the newly ressurected Fitzroy. His life energy draining power was the only thing that could hurt Cortex and he's using it now to kill him. Ruby blasts Falcone's mega sentinel and Fitz uses the energy he drained to open a portal to send Falone through it.
-Falcone and his super sentinel arrive in a very familiar spot: the neighborhood where he grew up. It was HIM and his sentinel that destroyed his parents house.
-before Layla and Jamie know it Doom has one final trick up his sleeve. A portal opens up and sends them back in time. Jamie arrives in X-Factor's Detroit location and Layla ends up... elsewhere.
-we saw older Layla talking to young Layla. Pre-House of M Layla to be exact. she tells her all of this but the young version is skeptical. Older Layla then injects her with a device. That device gives her all of older Layla's memories. Everything that she learned in the future. It's going to be too much for her so there will be gaps in what she remembers but this is how Layla 'knows stuff'.

The preview for 200 goes into a little detail about what led to the move to NY. The interactions with franklin and Val are really fun. Guido & Darwin especially are amusing.

[Slyfer]

refuses to read spoilers OMG *runs around office

[coconutphone]

Honeslty? Don't. It's a lot of fun reading it as it happens in the book.

Great ending to the story. I'm looking forward to seeing how it transitions to the NY setting.

[Dr-Strange]

I can't wait for 200, but I have 'questions' regarding...

-the truth about Layla, her powers and how she 'knows stuff'.

This is still the best comic book on sale from either Marvel or DC by far.

[nightw1ng]

i'm kinda sad that this means Layla will no longer "know stuff" since her transferred memories would have now caught up to the present.

[Ryan W]

Regarding Layla . . . @_@ wut?

[Filthy Mutie]

I wonder if the mysterious abyss and the mysterious Abyss will be related. I'm asking this as one of my X-Position questions.

[NewMutant]

I want to know creatively the creation of Layla and the transition from Bendis to PAD what the thoughts were.

[coconutphone]

i'm kinda sad that this means Layla will no longer "know stuff" since her transferred memories would have now caught up to the present.

I thought about that and older Layla accumulated knowledge of the last 80 years when she was in the future. Most of that hasn't played out yet for the team in the present so it can (and probably will) still play out.

[coconutphone]

I want to know creatively the creation of Layla and the transition from Bendis to PAD what the thoughts were.

I know PAD's said he asked Bendis about using her when he 1st started the book and explained what his plan was to im. Bendy gave it a big thumbs up and I think he may have told PAD what he had in mind for her. How much if any PAD took on board I don't know.

[Mitsaso]

i'm kinda sad that this means Layla will no longer "know stuff" since her transferred memories would have now caught up to the present.

That's not right. Layla still has all the memories of the things she learned in the future about the next 80 years... so she still knows stuff! :biggrin:


That was a stellar final issue!!! Truly epic, I caught myself OMGing several times, the end especially is awesome. I loved how it combined all that action with revelations about almost everything that could be revealed in this arc. I can't wait for #200!

Thank you for this, PAD!!! <3

[Dr-Strange]

I really want 1-50 in one massive oversized omnibus type book!

[coconutphone]

I think I'm going to re-read the arc this weekend whne I get some sitdown time. I guess 340 would be the start of it. Maybe throw in 39 for the set-up to Madrox's departure.

[RuggeSkin]

Like the set up at the end for 200. I love that someone finally calls the world on the over-use of Irony. George Carlin called it!

[coconutphone]

Oh GOD I love that PAD actually did it. He said he was going to use the Gladiator movies line in the book and he did. I guess we can thank Rob Leifeld for that? :eek:

Shatterstar's reaction to it was adorable.

and

"You do realize it's an actor right?"

LOL

[Peter David]

I really want 1-50 in one massive oversized omnibus type book!

I'm not sure the market is ready for a trade collection that'll cost about $300 and herniate anyone trying to read it (to say nothing of the poor UPS drivers trying to deliver it.) But I'll pass that suggestion on.

And everyone else, thanks for the kind words.

PAD

[Hi-Fi]

This was amazing!

The last Layla scene made my chin fall with shock. It was really bittersweet. Great work by PAD and DeLandro.

[coconutphone]

Yeah I meant to add that DeLandro does a great job. Layla's sadness at the end is palpable.

Oh and for those who haven't read it yet or somehow missed it, at the end there's a nice easter egg giving props to everyone's who's worked on the book.

[worstblogever]

Layla = Creepy again.

I mean, she can revive the dead, but without souls, or a conscience? She's like a walking version of Steven King's "Pet Sematery".

Note to self: Go listen to the Ramones singing the theme song to that movie...

[Puunk]

lol did anyone notice the grafitti on the final page.

awesome issue.

[baltiroo]

AMAZING issue! So great and really hits all the emotional points clearly. Can't wait for #200!!!!!!!

[tent]

wait. so she makes zombies? isn't the zombie thing being done to death?

- no pun intended lolz

[Dr-Strange]

I'm not sure the market is ready for a trade collection that'll cost about $300 and herniate anyone trying to read it (to say nothing of the poor UPS drivers trying to deliver it.) But I'll pass that suggestion on.

And everyone else, thanks for the kind words.

PAD

Oh... we would need Madrox 1-5 in there as well... it would be one big book!

[tent]

Someone please explain this:

During House of M Layla had the ability to "awaken" heroes and make them remember their former lives. By making eye contact and exhibiting an unexplained power, Layla restored the memories of victims of a combination of Scarlet Witch's reality manipulation and Charles Xavier's telepathy.

[RickyD410]

Oh. My. God.

What an incredibly satisfying end to such an amazing storyarc! I loved it. Thank you so much PAD and DeLandro! We got so many answers, and they were delivered in such perfect X-Factor ways.

But man, the Layla reveal was the craziest! Its just, ah! I feel like I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

So just to clarify: Jamie got back home to normal time in Detroit, and Layla wound up back in NY talking to herself before X-Factor started. Was this before or after House of M? How did Layla "re-awaken" people's memories in House of M? What has adult Layla been doing this whole series then, just chilling? I guess she'll show up again in Detroit or NY with everyone else, after waiting around 3 or so years until she lives her life back to the moment when Jamie arrives back.
I think I will ask PAD these things in his X-Position!

[darknessatnoon]

I'm playing a wait and see on the new development with Layla's powers, because I'm not really sure how those will be practically integrated in a monthly. I confused Hecate with Monet a couple of times. I think this would have read better if I was following less sporadically. I'll reread it in trade.

[Swashbuckler]

I enjoyed the wrap up of the storyline. I was satisifed and I loved the Layla thing, but I hate that this once again was all about Madrox. I know he's the main character here, but I hope we get less of him for a while now. The team wasn't even in the issues big finish, which is depressing to me. I love the character work going on here, but it needs to be with our main characters not Ruby Summers. I liked the issue, but I wasn't WOWed to death like some others. I'm excited to see where it goes now, but with the reveal that Terry stayed behind in Detroit I hate thinking that the cast is once again fractured all over the place. I know it's a big cast, but i it'd be nice to see them all together aside from on a cover. I really loved the art in the ENTIRE issue too, including the Invisible Woman story.

[coveredinbees]

Someone please explain this:

During House of M Layla had the ability to "awaken" heroes and make them remember their former lives. By making eye contact and exhibiting an unexplained power, Layla restored the memories of victims of a combination of Scarlet Witch's reality manipulation and Charles Xavier's telepathy.
Layla Millar is the daughter of Sage.

[RickyD410]

I enjoyed the wrap up of the storyline. I was satisifed and I loved the Layla thing, but I hate that this once again was all about Madrox. I know he's the main character here, but I hope we get less of him for a while now. The team wasn't even in the issues big finish, which is depressing to me. I love the character work going on here, but it needs to be with our main characters not Ruby Summers. I liked the issue, but I wasn't WOWed to death like some others. I'm excited to see where it goes now, but with the reveal that Terry stayed behind in Detroit I hate thinking that the cast is once again fractured all over the place. I know it's a big cast, but i it'd be nice to see them all together aside from on a cover. I really loved the art in the ENTIRE issue too, including the Invisible Woman story.
But the team's storyline and battle ended last ish, when Doom sucked Cortex back into the future. The only stuff left was in the future.

And I think the team will get together again soon. Or if theyre not togther, they'll all still be in the book. Why else would the cover to 200 have the entire cast if they're not still important? And in the letters page Jody mentioned how the cast is so big that they wont be adding any new team members, and the lesser used characters will get more focus. Which implies the current cast stays on.

[RickyD410]

Also, question: In the preview for #200, Guido makes another gay joke to/about Shatterstar. But Shatterstar didnt get it. And neither did I. Can someone explain it?

[Swashbuckler]

But the team's storyline and battle ended last ish, when Doom sucked Cortex back into the future. The only stuff left was in the future.

And I think the team will get together again soon. Or if theyre not togther, they'll all still be in the book. Why else would the cover to 200 have the entire cast if they're not still important? And in the letters page Jody mentioned how the cast is so big that they wont be adding any new team members, and the lesser used characters will get more focus. Which implies the current cast stays on.

All valid points. I'm just saying I would have enjoyed the story more had it been fashioned in a way that all the characters could be in the finale somehow. Also, we;ve been promised more focus on the lesser used characters before and still gotten a Madrox and X-Factor book, which is fine, I'd just prefer if he took the backseat for a while. And really, the whole cast being on the anniversary issue cover doesn't mean squat. They will most likely all appear, but it doesn't mean that scene will be in the issue.

[Swashbuckler]

Double Post, Feral Rocks!

[Puunk]

Also, question: In the preview for #200, Guido makes another gay joke to/about Shatterstar. But Shatterstar didnt get it. And neither did I. Can someone explain it?

LOL.

It's because of a remark or comment Rob Liefield made when he discussed the Rictor/Shatterstar kiss. PAD mentioned he'd reference it, and I'm surprised he actually did lol.

As to what the joke itself actually means, I'm at a loss - sorry.

[RickyD410]

LOL.

It's because of a remark or comment Rob Liefield made when he discussed the Rictor/Shatterstar kiss. PAD mentioned he'd reference it, and I'm surprised he actually did lol.

As to what the joke itself actually means, I'm at a loss - sorry.

Really? What was the reference?

And I just looked at that scene again... why is Rictor feeding Guido popcorn??

[coveredinbees]

What was the joke?

[RickyD410]

Rictor and Shatterstar were watching Gladiator, and they had this exchange:

Strong Guy: Tell me Shaterstar: do you like... Gladiator Movies?
Shatterstar: Apparently so.
Strong Guy: Figures.
Rictor: Not funny Guido! Not Funny!

[Puunk]

Really? What was the reference?

And I just looked at that scene again... why is Rictor feeding Guido popcorn??

I'm sorry - I could't follow along, but search for the "Add two more names to the list of gay superheroes article" on CBR and you'll find the remark + comment(s) by PAD. Sorry I can't post the link right now.

I loved Star's "apparently so." LOL it was so awesome.

[coveredinbees]

Liefeld said Shatterstar was like a Greek or Roman warrior and should be gay. A lot of them had homosexual relatinships, though. A fan (I'm pretty sure) said on the Robot 6 page something about gladiator movies, and Peter David said he'd use it.

[Darth Logan]

When Future Layla went and spoke to Past Layla was that pre or post M-Day? If it was before M-Day the extra knowledge that she aquired might help explain how she was able to see through Wanda's tinkering of reality in House of M.

[Peter David]

All valid points. I'm just saying I would have enjoyed the story more had it been fashioned in a way that all the characters could be in the finale somehow. Also, we;ve been promised more focus on the lesser used characters before and still gotten a Madrox and X-Factor book, which is fine, I'd just prefer if he took the backseat for a while. And really, the whole cast being on the anniversary issue cover doesn't mean squat. They will most likely all appear, but it doesn't mean that scene will be in the issue.

I totally understand where you're coming from on that. Honestly, the story ran long. I thought I was going to have room for a lengthy sequence with Jamie and the crew at the end and simply ran out of room. It's not like Marvel shorted me; I thought I could get more done in 32 pages and the story just kind of took over. So that's my bad, and all I can tell you is that the rest of the crew gets way more play next issue.

PAD

[Swashbuckler]

I totally understand where you're coming from on that. Honestly, the story ran long. I thought I was going to have room for a lengthy sequence with Jamie and the crew at the end and simply ran out of room. It's not like Marvel shorted me; I thought I could get more done in 32 pages and the story just kind of took over. So that's my bad, and all I can tell you is that the rest of the crew gets way more play next issue.

PAD

Sweet! I enjoyed it all regardless. I look foward to the future of the series. I've heard rumors of an X-Factor Forever book too and I hope that's something else you're involved in.

[CMBMOOL]

To me,

I see it as this...the future is sitll unknown, even if Madrox ended up in there. However, with the reveal of Layla's true powers, shouldn't the X-men be notified of this situation ? :frown:

[XaviersMisprint]

As confusing as this story will be to tell my friends about, I loved the twist at the end with adult Layla giving her knowledge to young Layla.

The preview for 200 was excellent so far, except that the Richards children look like twins even though Franklin is about 10 years older than Valeria. Oops?

[Dr-Strange]

Balls to the X-men.

X-Factor is where it's at.

[Darth Logan]

To me,

I see it as this...the future is sitll unknown, even if Madrox ended up in there. However, with the reveal of Layla's true powers, shouldn't the X-men be notified of this situation ? :frown:

I'm sure they will be. Layla still has to tell Scott to meet her in Atlantic City and to name his daughter Ruby after all. :wink:

[bakla]

Really? What was the reference?

If I'm not mistaken, it's a reference to the movie "Airplane!" where Peter Graves asks questions to a young boy visiting the airplane's cockpit, with not-so-subtle homoerotic undertones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHOteBVqKI

Really great issue, PAD. Brought me out of the woodwork to comment!

[Michael P]

If I'm not mistaken, it's a reference to the movie "Airplane!" where Peter Graves asks questions to a young boy visiting the airplane's cockpit, with not-so-subtle homoerotic undertones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHOteBVqKI

Really great issue, PAD. Brought me out of the woodwork to comment!

You are not mistaken. And everyone who hasn't seen Airplane! needs to go out and do so right now. No excuses, go.

[Justin K.]

Something about the preview cover to X-Factor 200 looks different...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg

The stomach showing look wasn't that suitable anyways...

[That JonoGuy]

Something about the preview cover to X-Factor 200 looks different...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg

The stomach showing look wasn't that suitable anyways...

A much needed improvement.

[orkoni1]

PAD I loved every single issue that you've written, I cannot wait for 200 comming out in DEC!!!

Um, PAD any chance we'll ever see Ruby again?! Please with a cherry on top :smile:

I really like how her powers varied in color I'm guessing depending how much energy she's got, really like the black and red :)

Also the irises being red on a black sclera was nice.

[Justin K.]

A much needed improvement.

It looks much better.

[Peter David]

Sweet! I enjoyed it all regardless. I look foward to the future of the series. I've heard rumors of an X-Factor Forever book too and I hope that's something else you're involved in.

That's news to me.

Now "Hulk Forever," on the other hand, would be cool. Never happen, though.

PAD

[Peter David]

You are not mistaken. And everyone who hasn't seen Airplane! needs to go out and do so right now. No excuses, go.

Not everyone has seen "Airplane!" Surely you must be joking.

PAD

[Greg Anderson]

Very VERY fun issue!

I do hope to see more of the team, though. Madrox may be my favorite Marvel character, but I really would prefer to see more of a team book than Madrox featuring the X-Factor. But overall, 50 issues of greatness and I applaud, congratulate, and thank PAD and co for such a fantastic book. Definitely my favorite Marvel!

Now onto the preview, I can't wait for the next issue. Seems like Shatterstar's fitting in well and the Gladiator joke got a good chuckle outta me. Great job, PAD! :biggrin:

[Novaya Havoc]

lol x-factor

[coconutphone]

Not everyone has seen "Airplane!" Surely you must be joking.

PAD

He's not joking. And don't call him 'Shirley'.

Seriously people, how old are some of you? How do you not know that's an "Airplane!" reference. Easily one of the funniest movies in history.

Ted "It's an entirely different kind of flying... altogether."

Randi & Dr. Rumack (confused) "It's an entirely different kind of flying."

[RuggeSkin]

"He thinks he's Ethel Merman..."
"YOU'LL BE SWELL! YOU'LL BE GREAT! GONNA HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD ON A PLATE! STARTING HERE! STARTING now... Now that everything.... com...ing... up... rossssss...es...."
"War is Hell."

You realize that now everyone will quote their favorite lines from the movie. AS IT SHOULD BE!

As for the comic. Lurves it. Fitz's comeback rocked. Never liked him before, but now he seems kind of tragic in a way. I'll have to go back and re-read some of his X-Men fights...

Just OOC, why is Valeria the same freakin size as God-Wishes-He-Was-As-Powerful-As-Me Franklin? He was in school when she was born in FF vol 3 #54. Admittedly he's aged so freakin slowly (Thank you so very much for that Nathaniel Richards and Onslaught) but it shouldn't mean she ages faster fer cryin out loud...

[Iron Maiden]

"He thinks he's Ethel Merman..."
"YOU'LL BE SWELL! YOU'LL BE GREAT! GONNA HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD ON A PLATE! STARTING HERE! STARTING now... Now that everything.... com...ing... up... rossssss...es...."
"War is Hell."

You realize that now everyone will quote their favorite lines from the movie. AS IT SHOULD BE!...


"C'mon boys, let's take some pictures!"

And Mrs. Cleaver talkin' jive to the brothers is hilarious.


Just OOC, why is Valeria the same freakin size as God-Wishes-He-Was-As-Powerful-As-Me Franklin? He was in school when she was born in FF vol 3 #54. Admittedly he's aged so freakin slowly (Thank you so very much for that Nathaniel Richards and Onslaught) but it shouldn't mean she ages faster fer cryin out loud...

I just think Val is just spooky period. She might still be a conduit of magic for all we know, going back to "Unthinkable". Just remember what her first spoken word was ...

[RickyD410]

This is my first exposure to both Franklin and Valeria Richards, so everything is new to me, but I like what I see so far.

And I've been told that I need to see Airplane, but I havent gotten to it yet. I know some of the jokes, but not the gladiator one.

[worstblogever]

This is my first exposure to both Franklin and Valeria Richards, so everything is new to me, but I like what I see so far.

And I've been told that I need to see Airplane, but I havent gotten to it yet. I know some of the jokes, but not the gladiator one.

The way the stewardess has to save the inflatable auto pilot is also a great moment. Leslie Nielsen makes the scene.

I won't spoil. But yes, see this movie, like yesterday.

[RickyD410]

The way the stewardess has to save the inflatable auto pilot is also a great moment. Leslie Nielsen makes the scene.

I won't spoil. But yes, see this movie, like yesterday.

Lol, its on my to-do list. Maybe soon after Halloween. Just got a netflix account, so I can definitely do it soon.

[Imperious Rex]

Ahh. So still no Strong Guy love. Looking forward to 200 in hoping that the most underused xman powerhouse can see some action. Sheesh. At times, i wish Guido was on on one of the main x-men groups. :( Gets depressing after a while when a powerhouse doesnt get to display his abilities. Almost a waste. Im keeping high hopes and fingers crossed that PAD finds it in his heart to show Guido some good action and page time WITHOUT A BUNCH OF DIALOGUE.

[Zel]

I don't keep up with FF but what kind of flight gizmo do the kids have? Heh, they're already as super-powered as Falcon and Hawkman. Also, hopefully someone will beat the crap outta Valeria, so obnoxious.

Nice wrap up to the story and explanation for Layla's knowing things.

[coconutphone]

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."

and one time I actually got set-up to use the

"_____? What is it?"

"It's a _____ but that's not important right now." joke by someone inadvertently. It was amazing. I practically yelled out the punchline.

I'm hoping we get some insight into why Siryn shut down the Detroit office. Will Val stil be popping by? Can't wait.

[RickyD410]

I don't keep up with FF but what kind of flight gizmo do the kids have? Heh, they're already as super-powered as Falcon and Hawkman. Also, hopefully someone will beat the crap outta Valeria, so obnoxious.

Nice wrap up to the story and explanation for Layla's knowing things.

What are the kids' powers? I know Franklin was a mutant, but what about Valeria?

[Iron Maiden]

What are the kids' powers? I know Franklin was a mutant, but what about Valeria?

Franklin has these reality warping powers that go dormant from time to time, depending on the FF writer. Right now, Hickman showed us a strong hint that they're back again after being drained by resurrecting Galactus in the defeat of Abraxas in FF#49. In Dark Reign FF, Franklin was wearing a toy cowboy holster when Osborn came barging in looking for the FF. Franklin fired the gun and Osborn ended up being wounded by the shot.

Valeria has a very convoluted backstory in the FF that really begins way back in when John Byrne's FF. In the story "A Small Loss", Sue was about to deliver their second child when she began having problems like she did with Franklin. Even though Reed tried his best to get other experts on the effects of radiation like Otto Octavaius, she still lost the baby.

Flash forward to Chris Claremont's FF when the FF are fighting Ronan the Accuser on the Moon near the Watcher's home. Reed, Ben and Johnny stumble onto some kind of window to another reality where they see Sue with two older children, one is Franklin and one is a girl named Valeria.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/BaronessVonDoom.jpg

A few issues later, Valeria shows up at the FF's home at Pier 4 and calls it an "oops". She apparently inadvertantly used her power to "time dance" and ended up with the "current" FF. She lived with the FF on and off until FF #49 when the FF and Franklin's uber powers defeated Abraxas. Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier and sort of rebooted everything to set it right after all the destruction caused by Abraxas trying to destroy all the multiverses. Franklin's powers caused Sue to become pregnant with the child she lost way back in the Byrne run. It turns out he really "saved" the child and gave her to Roma to watch over all those years. Teen-aged Valeria disappeared when Sue was made pregnant.

But the pregnancy still was a high risk one and reached a crisis when Reed was MIA. Johnny went to the only person he thought could help, which was Doom. As payment, he was granted the right to name the baby girl and he chose Valeria. But we see during "Unthinkable", there was a price that went with it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF68Valeria.jpg

Forgive the wordy back story but it helps to know about some speculation about her current status. Suddenly, in Millar's FF run Valeria started to exhibit an advanced intellect that is far beyond where she should be at age 3 (or thereabouts). There really was no explanation given but she is capable of working along side Reed on projects, etc and has an understanding of science that approaches his own. She assisted Reed in devloping a power syphon that was based on Doom's tech he used on the Silver Surfer and it was used to help bring down Clyde the Master of Doom.

There's a couple of theories about how she got so smart. The levitation thing in the X-Factor #200 preview is unexplained thus far...it could be something she created. One thought is that her IQ is somehow the result of Doom's using her as a familiar in "Unthinkable". I also think that somehow she retained some of the intelligence of the teen-aged Valeria Von Doom, who did exhibit a bit of her fathers intellect. Even the paternity was murky, it could either Doom or Reed...that's open to debate. But she was no Amadeus Cho.

[JohnSD]

Just read it but not read the thread yet, but I'll post my initial thoughts...

Overwhelmingly I am left feeling content by this issue - it was a thoroughly satisfactory close to the arc, and it displayed many of X-Factor's strength in it's well balanced mix of humour, pathos, and clever storytelling.

I thought the clever narrative style works remarkably well. At the end of a story this long - and in some ways the arc has perhaps been a little too long - it must be really hard to hold as much back as possible till the last issue and then give enough detail to that last issue to prevent it appearing a rushed ending. PAD's use of Layla as a narrator, telling as flashback that we zoom in and out of, solves this problem brilliantly. We are left with a full enough treatment of the future storyline and its role in wider continuity, a nice reflection on the Jamie and the book's own 'noir' style and history; and perhaps most satisfying of all, the very unexpected and clever reveal about Layla. Great stuff. The only thing that I'd say was missing was a confrontation between Tryp and Layla or at least some interaction there. But hey, PAD has to keep something simmering for future storylines!....

And the preview for #200 looks good. I see the cover has been updated a bit since the solicits, and the interior art looks like it captures the mood of the early arcs fairly well. Storywise it sounds like it's going to be both a new start but also a time for reflection on the past, and Guido's joke (foreshadowed by PAD on these forums...) made me laugh out loud. Brilliant! This looks like the series is going to go from strength to strength - long may it continue.

[RickyD410]

Wow! Thanks Iron Maiden! Very detailed summary. Thanks. :smile:

[CaptainCanada]

There's a couple of theores about how she got so smart. The levitation thing in the X-Factor #200 preview is unexplained thus far...it could be something she created. One thought is that her IQ is somehow the result of Doom's using her as a familiar in "Unthinkable". I also think that somehow she retained some of the intelligence of the teen-aged Valeria Von Doom, who did exhibit a bit of her fathers intellect. Even the paternity was murky, it could either Doom or Reed...that's open to debate. But she was no Amadeus Cho.Occam's Razor: genius is her superpower (which was how Future Sue described it, certainly).

[Mia]

Really? What was the reference?


Apparently Liefeld argued that Shatterstar can't be gay because he's a warrior etc. There's a whole discussion about it on this thread (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/liefeld-cant-wait-to-someday-undo-shatterstar-development/).

Further back in the 50's there were a whole slate of gladiator movies made. Apparently they were very popular (for obvious reasons) with gay men.

[Iron Maiden]

Wow! Thanks Iron Maiden! Very detailed summary. Thanks. :smile:

You're welcome... I hope it wasn't too confusing!

Occam's Razor: genius is her superpower (which was how Future Sue described it, certainly).

Ehhh.....possible but I don't buy it. She just seems to have this instant knowledge of everything, how to use tools, etc. without being exposed to it. I just think with Val there's a step missing between having the capacity to do something and then going out and learning the process. Maybe what she has instead of genius is some kind of super intuitive powers like Forge.

[JohnSD]

PAD must have jumped at the opportunity to use the "gladiator movies" joke in a comic that isn't Marvel Romance Redux.... (it was shortly after the Liefeld controversy when I came across this comic, which made it extra funny - everyone ought to check it out the issue, it's sidesplittingly good as a pisstake...)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6417/gladiatorf.jpg

[AstonishingXMan]

X-Factor #50 will be my last issue. I purchased every issue and every hardcover.

Layla was totally ruined. Thanks a lot. That entire plodding time travel saga for THAT ending? Man...

Between awful Shatterstar, awful Longshot, dull Darwin, completely ruining Layla, Guido's ridiculous new orange costume, Siryn becoming a one dimensional character, and more unoriginal time travel/rogue dupe nonsense, I can see why this book sells so poorly now.

Oh well. I'll always have the pre-Secret Invasion issues to remember as my favorite X-Book this decade.

Sigh :(

[RickyD410]

X-Factor #50 will be my last issue. I purchased every issue and every hardcover.

Layla was totally ruined. Thanks a lot. That entire plodding time travel saga for THAT ending? So long.

Wait... what?? Mind saying why you think she was ruinned? I think its super cool. I think its really interesting.

[AstonishingXMan]

Not really, I'll just say that I found #50 to be a great jumping off point to a sinking ship.

As if creating an "adult Layla" wasn't a bad enough decision --- the plodding future timeline story, uninteresting villains, horrible new additions to the team (Shatterstar? Darwin? Longshot? REALLY?), uncreative Layla reveal ("I make zombies! (WHAT?!) I gave the young me some memories!") and flat resolution to this whole, slow, dull arc just made me think of the old days. I miss this book being...actually fun to read. Up until Secret Invasion, it was. Now it's a chore and the payoff wasn't there.

I gave up half-way during the preview for #200 when I saw X-Factor was being employed by the FF's kids. Maybe in an issue of "WHAT THE--!?" that might make a cute story for 2 pages, but I certainly don't want to read about it.

Hey, to each his own. Enjoy it.

[RickyD410]

Not really, I'll just say that I found #50 to be a great jumping off point to a sinking ship.

As if creating an "adult Layla" wasn't a bad enough decision --- the plodding future timeline story, uninteresting villains, horrible new additions to the team (Shatterstar? Darwin? Longshot? REALLY?), uncreative Layla reveal ("I make zombies! (WHAT?!) I gave the young me some memories!") and flat resolution to this whole, slow, dull arc just made me think of the old days. I miss this book being...actually fun to read. Up until Secret Invasion, it was. Now it's a chore and the payoff wasn't there.

I gave up half-way during the preview for #200 when I saw X-Factor was being employed by the FF's kids. Maybe in an issue of "WHAT THE--!?" that might make a cute story for 2 pages, but I certainly don't want to read about it.

Hey, to each his own. Enjoy it.

Eh, sorry you feel that way. I love it still. I dont think its changed that much. I think the story has progressed interestingly all the way from #1 to right here. I dont think adult Layla is bad. She's still fun. "I'm really in the mood for a quality cheese-steak". She's still spunky and sassy. She's just not as creepy anymore. But she still does what she does to get the job done. We saw her bring a Buttefly back to life waaaay back in the second arc of the story, around #7 I think. Clearly, PAD has been planning for a very, very long time. I think this makes a lot of sense as to how she knows things. We were told from the very beginning that Layla's "stuff" was not due to a mutant power.

All the things you think are silly, I really enjoyed. I thought Anthony Falcone's story was tragic and interesting, where he is completely a product of his own racist actions. I see no problem with the FF kids hiring X-Factor. Clearly, Valeria is more than capable of thinking and acting for herself.

I didnt think this arc was dull. I loved it. I loved how the actions of people spanned across 8 decades, and the entire cast was involved, despite two very different situations in two extremely different times. I love PADs writing. Its funny, interesting, and I love seeing the ramifications of all the characters' mishaps.

[Terry121]

Not really, I'll just say that I found #50 to be a great jumping off point to a sinking ship.

As if creating an "adult Layla" wasn't a bad enough decision --- the plodding future timeline story, uninteresting villains, horrible new additions to the team (Shatterstar? Darwin? Longshot? REALLY?), uncreative Layla reveal ("I make zombies! (WHAT?!) I gave the young me some memories!") and flat resolution to this whole, slow, dull arc just made me think of the old days. I miss this book being...actually fun to read. Up until Secret Invasion, it was. Now it's a chore and the payoff wasn't there.

I gave up half-way during the preview for #200 when I saw X-Factor was being employed by the FF's kids. Maybe in an issue of "WHAT THE--!?" that might make a cute story for 2 pages, but I certainly don't want to read about it.

Hey, to each his own. Enjoy it.

Personaly I don't see what you're bitching about. If anything PAD saved most of these char's you named from oblivion by giving them some spotlight and tying up some decade old plots.

Secondly while I'll give that the style of PAD's storytelling changed a bit, the finale still felt organic to me and was rather good. So I'm sticking with the title and can't wait for the december issue.

[blinkinrogue]

I totally understand where you're coming from on that. Honestly, the story ran long. I thought I was going to have room for a lengthy sequence with Jamie and the crew at the end and simply ran out of room. It's not like Marvel shorted me; I thought I could get more done in 32 pages and the story just kind of took over. So that's my bad, and all I can tell you is that the rest of the crew gets way more play next issue.

PAD

and pls have more M, and hopefully more of her crazynut family lols. loved the layla reveal though. i havent read house of M, so i have no idea what she could do during that arc.

[Flâneur]

I liked this and I'm sure people understand that I'm quite hard to please. I do wish the issue was bigger though as we needed to see Monet and Siryn more than we did.

Oh and whoever is going on about 'zombies' is being silly. Layla restores people, in life and memory, but she simply has a limit to how much she can restore.

[sneggz]

Well, I was going to say I dont like how PAD turned Layla into a living Black Lantern till I read this:


Oh and whoever is going on about 'zombies' is being silly. Layla restores people, in life and memory, but she simply has a limit to how much she can restore.

It makes sense when compared to HoM Layla, but I preferred Layla seeing lines of causality to mess with people.

Everything else was pretty cool, but I wonder why Guido is all dark. Bad faketan?

[Home made ectoplasm]

I didn't really enjoy this arc too much (and this issue in particular) but on the plus side it looks like this is the end of the time travel stuff for a while. X Factor works best when it is being more down to earth imo.

[Flâneur]

Well, I was going to say I dont like how PAD turned Layla into a living Black Lantern till I read this:



It makes sense when compared to HoM Layla, but I preferred Layla seeing lines of causality to mess with people.

Everything else was pretty cool, but I wonder why Guido is all dark. Bad faketan?

There were hints to this way back when though, how she was disruptive to Tryp's memory of the future just as he was to hers. She wouldn't have presented that kind of problem if she was just a precog. It also makes more sense when you consider her adult attitude, the grown up in a child's body which was the creepiest thing about her 'I know stuff' attitude.

It also ties back into why she could know who she was in HoM, given that adult Layla would remember all of it, and why 'knowing stuff' was so different to what she did there. Seeing the lines of causality never made anywhere near as much sense, even if it was more exciting.

[sneggz]

There were hints to this way back when though, how she was disruptive to Tryp's memory of the future just as he was to hers. She wouldn't have presented that kind of problem if she was just a precog. It also makes more sense when you consider her adult attitude, the grown up in a child's body which was the creepiest thing about her 'I know stuff' attitude.

It also ties back into why she could know who she was in HoM, given that adult Layla would remember all of it, and why 'knowing stuff' was so different to what she did there. Seeing the lines of causality never made anywhere near as much sense, even if it was more exciting.

As far as Tryp vs. Layla, I have to disagree. If she was a precog, or could see how to mess with the future, I think that would be enough to mess with a guy from the future. At least, as long as her understanding of the future updates to mess with him everytime he makes a move.

I'd have to reread old issues to see if I wholly disagree with you though.

[JohnSD]

The thing that still needs revealed, and I don't think has been covered so far, is what adult Layla has been doing since arriving in the pre-house of M "present" (or pre-X-Factor at least) and Jamie arriving back in the present "present".... If we've all followed the story correctly then adult Layla has been hanging around somewhere on earth during the entire X-Factor run, and when she rejoins the team she should be at least a year older than when Jamie last saw her in the future...

confused, no?

[Flâneur]

As far as Tryp vs. Layla, I have to disagree. If she was a precog, or could see how to mess with the future, I think that would be enough to mess with a guy from the future. At least, as long as her understanding of the future updates to mess with him everytime he makes a move.

Well, no, not really. Time travelers and those affected by them have always disrupted this sort of thing, precognitives not so much. Remember DofP? Kitty's presence, when possessed by someone from outside this timeframe/dimension, fucking up Destiny's powers but not the reverse?

[sneggz]

Well, no, not really. Time travelers and those affected by them have always disrupted this sort of thing, precognitives not so much. Remember DofP? Kitty's presence, when possessed by someone from outside this timeframe/dimension, fucking up Destiny's powers but not the reverse?
Didn't read it but I see what you're getting at.

[Deathspider1977]

I really wish Longshot would get more of a role in things. He's been typecast as a dumb, happy puppy dog, and I think if anyone could change the way people see Longshot, it would be PAD. I realize that his story has to take precedence over my favorite bit player, but I really would like to see the other members of the team shine.

[S'Cipio_66]

Ahh. So still no Strong Guy love. Looking forward to 200 in hoping that the most underused xman powerhouse can see some action. Sheesh. At times, i wish Guido was on on one of the main x-men groups. :( Gets depressing after a while when a powerhouse doesnt get to display his abilities. Almost a waste. Im keeping high hopes and fingers crossed that PAD finds it in his heart to show Guido some good action and page time WITHOUT A BUNCH OF DIALOGUE.

Well, there was just some very strong character development for Guido in the issue 200 preview: he's now black!
:biggrin:

Seriously, when I read it I sort of wondered if maybe the colorist failed to recognize Guido without the curl, and said, "Hmmm... big, muscular, shaved head....... he must be black! Let's pour on the ink."

It can't just have ben the shadows. Everyone else in the scene was still white.

-S'Cipio

[XaviersMisprint]

I didn't really enjoy this arc too much (and this issue in particular) but on the plus side it looks like this is the end of the time travel stuff for a while. X Factor works best when it is being more down to earth imo.

I agree with you on that. I liked it even more when they dealt with the issues of Mutant Town and had a more realistic look at mutants.

However, I thought this arc had a lot of great moments. Something new every month. The art was solid and told the story well, but for some reason I just wasn't the biggest fan of De Landro. I think it is missing something. The art is probably half the reason this book can't find the same tone it had.

[XaviersMisprint]

Something about the preview cover to X-Factor 200 looks different...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg

The stomach showing look wasn't that suitable anyways...

Woah, I didn't even notice! I like this look so much better now.

[Imperious Rex]

Well, there was just some very strong character development for Guido in the issue 200 preview: he's now black!
:biggrin:

Seriously, when I read it I sort of wondered if maybe the colorist failed to recognize Guido without the curl, and said, "Hmmm... big, muscular, shaved head....... he must be black! Let's pour on the ink."

It can't just have ben the shadows. Everyone else in the scene was still white.

-S'Cipio

Lol, yea i see. Hopefully, its just bad inking or something behind the skin change.

I hope PAD can address that as well as some type of notification regarding if Guido is going to get to see any action/fighting any time soon. Other than his comedic dialogue at times, will his powers be put to use?

[Colinp42]

I'm confused about the mechanics of how Layla was portrayed up until now. It didn't seem to just have been knowledge of the future. How could knowing the future have possibly told her that removing one screw would result in someone's death? That's why her "unofficial" name was Butterfly. Maybe there's more to come, but it just doesn't seem to completely work as a retcon for me.

[JohnSD]

I'm confused about the mechanics of how Layla was portrayed up until now. It didn't seem to just have been knowledge of the future. How could knowing the future have possibly told her that removing one screw would result in someone's death? That's why her "unofficial" name was Butterfly. Maybe there's more to come, but it just doesn't seem to completely work as a retcon for me.

Is it not just a classic time paradox loop - Layla knew what to do because she'd done it before because she's been told it would happen because she's done it before...... The net result of the series so far is that nothing has changed - the future is still on course to be the same timeline that Jamie and Layla were in, just like in the Terminator films. It's all a self fulfilling loop with no definable start point...

I'm still interested in working out where Tryp fits into all of it though....

[uncanny_mark]

I thought it was a good end, and the reveal of Layla's powers was definitely the highlight of the series. The book definitely felt like the end of what x-factor had become. The preview for #200 looked like it was bringing X-factor back to its roots. Also with all the time jumping I had to read it twice to get some other things that PAD threw in. Overall a nice conclusion to a great series. See ya in #200.

[Slyfer]

best bloody book of the week so far, Layla's powers explained, the prologue was awesome PAD should write FF again

[Nevets F]

I think the Layla reveal was interesting, but overall the story was been hard to get through. I found myself skipping the Madrox/Layla stuff after a while, and focusing on the present day stuff.

I still don't enjoy most of what has happened to the characters in this book, even though I have always been a big fan of Siryn, Monet, and Rictor in particular.

[Grapeweasel]

X-Factor #50 will be my last issue. I purchased every issue and every hardcover.

Layla was totally ruined. Thanks a lot. That entire plodding time travel saga for THAT ending? Man...

Between awful Shatterstar, awful Longshot, dull Darwin, completely ruining Layla, Guido's ridiculous new orange costume, Siryn becoming a one dimensional character, and more unoriginal time travel/rogue dupe nonsense, I can see why this book sells so poorly now.

Oh well. I'll always have the pre-Secret Invasion issues to remember as my favorite X-Book this decade.

Sigh :(


If I didn't bother reading through every page of this thread first, I would have said exactly this.

[Shadowkurt]

The thing that still needs revealed, and I don't think has been covered so far, is what adult Layla has been doing since arriving in the pre-house of M "present" (or pre-X-Factor at least) and Jamie arriving back in the present "present".... If we've all followed the story correctly then adult Layla has been hanging around somewhere on earth during the entire X-Factor run, and when she rejoins the team she should be at least a year older than when Jamie last saw her in the future...

confused, no?

From the way I read the story, it means exactly this: While Madrox was returned to the present, Layla went back to much earlier in time, presumably before House of M. She must have been around - in her adult version - somewhere since then. Given the solicits for issue #201, I would guess she's been with Doom; she says to her younger self that Senile Doom had his reasons to send her back in time, and that Jamie would find out "in a few years" - meaning probably #201ff. As a side effect, Young Layla having Adult Layla's memories explains why she could perceive House of M as unreal.

PAD has often complained that he couldn't plan for long in advance but had to improvise when the bigger MU interfered, but I think he has been building up the Layla reveal ever since he first introduced her. Actually, during Messiah Complex, what was needed for the crossover was just Jamie's dupe going to the future to meet Bishop, kill himself and transfer his memories to Madrox. Most of us thought that MC had forced PAD to send Layla off and leaving his own book poorer (as in Rahne to X-Force), but I now think he wanted to get her to the future all along and just used MC as a convenient way of doing so.

The big reveal of Layla's true powers - which were foreshadowed earlier - coinciding with Necrosha is presumably accidental, but Layla has her reasons to keep her abilities secret. She doesn't create zombies, she rather creates sociopaths.

I'm just a bit unclear about the two dupes. Forge said he had seen two future timelines in which there were mutants again, so he sent one dupe into each. Number one ended up, together with Layla, in Bishop's time, from which grew the Summers rebellion and everything that followed. Number two became Cortex and ended up in the same timeline, so what happened to where he was originally sent to? He mentioned having been stuck in a vortex, so he may never have arrived there.

And I would have liked to see young Bishop again...

[Nicoclaws]

Great issue, even without the big cast. The art was really good and consistent for once.
The Layla reveal is... kinda disappointing. I liked the previous apparent power. Now it's really not the Layla we knew (and unfortunately it puts kind of a shadow over that character)
I hope she'll be a good new character...

Looking forward for the new direction, the art looks gorgeous. And totally noir.

[coconutphone]

From the way I read the story, it means exactly this: While Madrox was returned to the present, Layla went back to much earlier in time, presumably before House of M. She must have been around - in her adult version - somewhere since then. Given the solicits for issue #201, I would guess she's been with Doom; she says to her younger self that Senile Doom had his reasons to send her back in time, and that Jamie would find out "in a few years" - meaning probably #201ff. As a side effect, Young Layla having Adult Layla's memories explains why she could perceive House of M as unreal.

PAD has often complained that he couldn't plan for long in advance but had to improvise when the bigger MU interfered, but I think he has been building up the Layla reveal ever since he first introduced her. Actually, during Messiah Complex, what was needed for the crossover was just Jamie's dupe going to the future to meet Bishop, kill himself and transfer his memories to Madrox. Most of us thought that MC had forced PAD to send Layla off and leaving his own book poorer (as in Rahne to X-Force), but I now think he wanted to get her to the future all along and just used MC as a convenient way of doing so.

The big reveal of Layla's true powers - which were foreshadowed earlier - coinciding with Necrosha is presumably accidental, but Layla has her reasons to keep her abilities secret. She doesn't create zombies, she rather creates sociopaths.

I'm just a bit unclear about the two dupes. Forge said he had seen two future timelines in which there were mutants again, so he sent one dupe into each. Number one ended up, together with Layla, in Bishop's time, from which grew the Summers rebellion and everything that followed. Number two became Cortex and ended up in the same timeline, so what happened to where he was originally sent to? He mentioned having been stuck in a vortex, so he may never have arrived there.

And I would have liked to see young Bishop again...

Yeah he mentioned that he (Cortex) was trying to get back to Jamie Prime but got stuck along the way presumably by Tryp who along with Falcone experimented on him to turn him into Cortex.

[Somebody]

Well, there was just some very strong character development for Guido in the issue 200 preview: he's now black!
:biggrin:

Seriously, when I read it I sort of wondered if maybe the colorist failed to recognize Guido without the curl, and said, "Hmmm... big, muscular, shaved head....... he must be black! Let's pour on the ink."

It can't just have ben the shadows. Everyone else in the scene was still white.
I was beginning to think it was just me since no-one else had mentioned it.

Seriously, doubleyou-tee-eff? I know M's been periodically bleached beyond reason in this book, but that doesn't make going the other way with Guido any better.

[Mitteloss]

I love X-Factor. It's the comic book I look most forward to every month and this issue, was again, just fantastic and everything happened so unexpectedly. I used to be critical of PAD's writing style three or so years a go, but over this time it's really grown on me, and I love it.

The moment at the end with Layla Miller was great. Finally everything came around.

Something about the preview cover to X-Factor 200 looks different...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg

The stomach showing look wasn't that suitable anyways...


LOL I remember pointing that the bare midriff didn't look right. This looks much better on Siryn. Now it is perfection! Roll on 2010!

[4sake]

This issue was great.. 9.8-10

Butterfly makes so much sense to me now power wise, storyline wise & characters wise. At 1st I didn't think I'd like the powers, but now I really do.

Ruby was interesting & I'd like to see more of her down the line at some point. (Maybe she could visiting the 616 or something)

I little confused about Ruby & Trevor Fitzroy relationship/how they related/etc. :confused:

I hope we find out about the time line that Cortex Madrox went to or did he even make it to that time line? Or did to get trapped in time before got to that time line? :confused:


Darwin looked great in the 200 preview. He actually looked like he could be a half-Black & half-Latino man now. Also it great to see he still has ears. Thank you PAD & thank you art & colorist teams.. :biggrin: :cool:

Also I'm glad to see Madrox kept the M on his eye...

[Puunk]

After the Invisible Woman storyline, I want Monet to meet Molly Hayes and arm-wrestle.

[Peter David]

After the Invisible Woman storyline, I want Monet to meet Molly Hayes and arm-wrestle.

In a large pool of Jell-O while wearing bikinis. Or at least Monet in the bikini; Molly's kind of young, so it'd be more age appropriate to keep her in a one-piece. Or maybe Osh-Kosh overalls.

PAD

[Puunk]

In a large pool of Jell-O while wearing bikinis. Or at least Monet in the bikini; Molly's kind of young, so it'd be more age appropriate to keep her in a one-piece. Or maybe Osh-Kosh overalls.

PAD

LOL. It's just for some inexplicable reason I'm always imagining Molly arm-wrestling Monet - Molly would win, Monet would be all "wtf?", Molly would brag, Monet would try to be defensive, Molly would continue bragging, Monet would slowly lose her cool, Molly would... etc. etc, it just continues. x)

(edit) - Sorry for the randomness, it's just that other thread has me imagining possible "what if" scenerios.

[Raptor]

Franklin has these reality warping powers that go dormant from time to time, depending on the FF writer. Right now, Hickman showed us a strong hint that they're back again after being drained by resurrecting Galactus in the defeat of Abraxas in FF#49. In Dark Reign FF, Franklin was wearing a toy cowboy holster when Osborn came barging in looking for the FF. Franklin fired the gun and Osborn ended up being wounded by the shot.

Valeria has a very convoluted backstory in the FF that really begins way back in when John Byrne's FF. In the story "A Small Loss", Sue was about to deliver their second child when she began having problems like she did with Franklin. Even though Reed tried his best to get other experts on the effects of radiation like Otto Octavaius, she still lost the baby.

Flash forward to Chris Claremont's FF when the FF are fighting Ronan the Accuser on the Moon near the Watcher's home. Reed, Ben and Johnny stumble onto some kind of window to another reality where they see Sue with two older children, one is Franklin and one is a girl named Valeria.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/BaronessVonDoom.jpg

A few issues later, Valeria shows up at the FF's home at Pier 4 and calls it an "oops". She apparently inadvertantly used her power to "time dance" and ended up with the "current" FF. She lived with the FF on and off until FF #49 when the FF and Franklin's uber powers defeated Abraxas. Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier and sort of rebooted everything to set it right after all the destruction caused by Abraxas trying to destroy all the multiverses. Franklin's powers caused Sue to become pregnant with the child she lost way back in the Byrne run. It turns out he really "saved" the child and gave her to Roma to watch over all those years. Teen-aged Valeria disappeared when Sue was made pregnant.

But the pregnancy still was a high risk one and reached a crisis when Reed was MIA. Johnny went to the only person he thought could help, which was Doom. As payment, he was granted the right to name the baby girl and he chose Valeria. But we see during "Unthinkable", there was a price that went with it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF68Valeria.jpg

Forgive the wordy back story but it helps to know about some speculation about her current status. Suddenly, in Millar's FF run Valeria started to exhibit an advanced intellect that is far beyond where she should be at age 3 (or thereabouts). There really was no explanation given but she is capable of working along side Reed on projects, etc and has an understanding of science that approaches his own. She assisted Reed in devloping a power syphon that was based on Doom's tech he used on the Silver Surfer and it was used to help bring down Clyde the Master of Doom.

There's a couple of theories about how she got so smart. The levitation thing in the X-Factor #200 preview is unexplained thus far...it could be something she created. One thought is that her IQ is somehow the result of Doom's using her as a familiar in "Unthinkable". I also think that somehow she retained some of the intelligence of the teen-aged Valeria Von Doom, who did exhibit a bit of her fathers intellect. Even the paternity was murky, it could either Doom or Reed...that's open to debate. But she was no Amadeus Cho.

Those breasts are creepy, too big and jutting forth like cast iron ball bearings.

I love X-Factor. It's the comic book I look most forward to every month and this issue, was again, just fantastic and everything happened so unexpectedly. I used to be critical of PAD's writing style three or so years a go, but over this time it's really grown on me, and I love it.

The moment at the end with Layla Miller was great. Finally everything came around.




LOL I remember pointing that the bare midriff didn't look right. This looks much better on Siryn. Now it is perfection! Roll on 2010!

I must be the only one who liked the bare midriff. Its not bad this way.

I like the issue a lot. Layla's power is simply amazing. Her description of it and the emotion shown is phenomenal.

Yet I have questions.

1) Was a precednet set that people carrying the Summers gene are immune to the blasts of those carrying the Summers gene? Or is it just the Summers brothers? Curious since Ruby and Cyclops could hurt each other.

2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious).

3) Was it stated before the MM's duplication is/was a conscious effort? I'll bet it was and I just missed it. It is still an interesting fact.

[4sake]

Those breasts are creepy, too big and jutting forth like cast iron ball bearings.



I must be the only one who liked the bare midriff. Its not bad this way.

I like the issue a lot. Layla's power is simply amazing. Her description of it and the emotion shown is phenomenal.

Yet I have questions.

1) Was a precednet set that people carrying the Summers gene are immune to the blasts of those carrying the Summers gene? Or is it just the Summers brothers? Curious since Ruby and Cyclops could hurt each other.


2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious).

3) Was it stated before the MM's duplication is/was a conscious effort? I'll bet it was and I just missed it. It is still an interesting fact.

Good question, I'm sure, but I'd just go with that she could hurt him beause he's part robot now.

[Goshin]

I doubt we've seen the last of Ruby Summers.

[Talisman]

edited so i don't get banned.

[jackolover]

This was a marvelous conclusion to the Layla Millar saga. Thanks Peter David for the wonderful character and the surprise about her in the 50th issue. She was injected with the sum amount of knowledge for the next 80 years between now, and the "M" age she was drawn into the future for. Not only that, but 16 year old Layla was around the earth at the time of the HoM when Layla was injected with it all. And seeing as Layla was just 10 years old at the time, a lot of the knowledge meant nothing to her, so I can imagine a 10 yo being a bit vague sometimes.

The fact that Doctor Doom of the future used a time plate to move 16yo Layla around and back, intrigues me. Why would he do such a thing unless it was to his advantage? And also, how did DD know that Layla's intrusion into the timestream was essential?

[jackolover]

I thought about that and older Layla accumulated knowledge of the last 80 years when she was in the future. Most of that hasn't played out yet for the team in the present so it can (and probably will) still play out.

Is 10 yo Layla still in the present, or has she been forever lost? By that I mean, when young Layla disappeared from our current time, is that it for her new memories as a child living in the present? Gone?

[Puunk]

I'm slighty confused, where is old Layla going? Layla musn't leave the series.

I must say, as much as I'm loving old Layla, I became incredibly giddy when I saw young Layla - I loved her so much, she was amazing.

[jackolover]

As far as Tryp vs. Layla, I have to disagree. If she was a precog, or could see how to mess with the future, I think that would be enough to mess with a guy from the future. At least, as long as her understanding of the future updates to mess with him everytime he makes a move.

I'd have to reread old issues to see if I wholly disagree with you though.

I don't know Tryp or any of his long term plans, but even if Layla knew what the future was going to be, couldn't she affect it, and ruin his plans.

[jackolover]

Is it not just a classic time paradox loop - Layla knew what to do because she'd done it before because she's been told it would happen because she's done it before...... The net result of the series so far is that nothing has changed - the future is still on course to be the same timeline that Jamie and Layla were in, just like in the Terminator films. It's all a self fulfilling loop with no definable start point...

I'm still interested in working out where Tryp fits into all of it though....

I wonder if Steve Rogers is just as stuck in his time loop as Layla was? Could Steve step off suddenly and say, "Enough!" and stuff up the future, or, is he doomed to run the same tracks he ran in the past?

[Terry121]

Yet I have questions.

1) Was a precednet set that people carrying the Summers gene are immune to the blasts of those carrying the Summers gene? Or is it just the Summers brothers? Curious since Ruby and Cyclops could hurt each other.

2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious).

3) Was it stated before the MM's duplication is/was a conscious effort? I'll bet it was and I just missed it. It is still an interesting fact.

1 - So far only Alex and Scott are immune to each others powers. But not because they're siblings (well to a degree due to their mutations) but rather due to the fact that each absorbs energy, chanels and then emits it back. Scott for instance metabolizes solar energy-blasts Alex who absorbs cosmic energy (solar energy being part of cosmic I asume) and blasts back Scott who in turn absorbs Alex's blast etc.

Since we don't know what kind of energy Ruby emits it's reasonable to assume that she can blast both Scott and Alex without the absorption effect.

Another example is Vulcan who manipulates energy rather then absorbing it. He isn't immune to either power set nor are his brothers immune to his

2 - Not really. I mean religions and belief systems had that one established centuries ago around the time when they humanity came up with the concept of a soul.

3 - Nah, he multiplied before while being knocked out or brainwashed. So I guess both. He can control the multiplication (when) and it can function without Jamie actually being aware of it.

[jackolover]

2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious)..


I'm not sure that that HAS been established. I for one, would find that curious, and most animals and insects completely stupify robotics experts as to why they funcion and how. That to me tells me they are alive with a soul, and not just operating on instinct.



3) Was it stated before the MM's duplication is/was a conscious effort? I'll bet it was and I just missed it. It is still an interesting fact.

I was surprised about this. That didn't seem obvious from Madrox's powers, which seemed to be automatic.

[joemagnum611]

I don't keep up with FF but what kind of flight gizmo do the kids have? Heh, they're already as super-powered as Falcon and Hawkman. Also, hopefully someone will beat the crap outta Valeria, so obnoxious.

Nice wrap up to the story and explanation for Layla's knowing things.

Reed made the kids "flight jackets" in an issue of FF.

[coconutphone]

I don't think it's that. I think Madrox has just learned to control the process IF he concentrates/works at it enough. So an involuntary dupe is possible once in a while he can control it when he really tries.

[Peter David]

Yet I have questions.

1) Was a precednet set that people carrying the Summers gene are immune to the blasts of those carrying the Summers gene? Or is it just the Summers brothers? Curious since Ruby and Cyclops could hurt each other.

2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious).

3) Was it stated before the MM's duplication is/was a conscious effort? I'll bet it was and I just missed it. It is still an interesting fact.

1) I figured that was just the Summers Bros.
2) Where was that established? My feeling was simply that it was easier to tell that a human being was souless than, say, a butterfly. What does an amoral butterfly do, anyway? Vindictively hit your windshield?
3) I don't think his duplication is a conscious effort. I think it's the default reaction if he's struck. I just established definitively that he can prevent himself from duping if he needs to.

PAD

[Puunk]

Ohmg I just realized something.

If Layla had the memories of her older self, wouldn't she be technically old as well? This is what could have matured her and shaped her personality more adult-like - so that she's an adult while she's a child. Maybe that's what she meant when she said "even though I was a kid, I never really was, you know?" right after she and Jamie kissed.

If she tells Jamie, I bet this would put him at ease.

[Lester C.]

1) I figured that was just the Summers Bros.
2) Where was that established? My feeling was simply that it was easier to tell that a human being was souless than, say, a butterfly. What does an amoral butterfly do, anyway? Vindictively hit your windshield?
3) I don't think his duplication is a conscious effort. I think it's the default reaction if he's struck. I just established definitively that he can prevent himself from duping if he needs to.

PAD

I am getting ready for bed Mr. David so I apologize if this post is a bit incoherent. How the Summer brothers' powers work on each other was meant to illustrate how all mutant families' powers work against each other when used. That said, I don't think anyone expects you to beholden to continuity over twenty years old, as that is just insane. No one would be able to write or draw anything if you guys were forced to take into account decades of stories published in dozens of concurrent books before putting forth your stories and they are YOUR stories we just read them.

[Peter David]

I am getting ready for bed Mr. David so I apologize if this post is a bit incoherent. How the Summer brothers' powers work on each other was meant to illustrate how all mutant families' powers work against each other when used. That said, I don't think anyone expects you to beholden to continuity over twenty years old, as that is just insane.

Apparently you haven't met some of the fans I have...

PAD

[Terry121]

:wink: I am getting ready for bed Mr. David so I apologize if this post is a bit incoherent. How the Summer brothers' powers work on each other was meant to illustrate how all mutant families' powers work against each other when used. That said, I don't think anyone expects you to beholden to continuity over twenty years old, as that is just insane. No one would be able to write or draw anything if you guys were forced to take into account decades of stories published in dozens of concurrent books before putting forth your stories and they are YOUR stories we just read them.

Personally I still think that the reason why Scott and Alex are immune is the nature of their powers rather then DNA. Since both absorb and emit similiar energy it's natural that they can chanel each other's powers.

P.S.
PAD good luck with the fans :wink:

[Darth Logan]

Weren't Black Tom and Banshee immune to each others powers as well? And they're not even brothers, just cousins.

[Raptor]

I reread what Layla said.

She didn't say they don't have souls (animals), she said people don't notice any difference.

My mistake.:redface:

I also want to be clear I loved the issue and wasn't pointing fingers or implying dislike or accusation. I simply wanted clarification.

I am happy with said clarifications also. Thanks to all who contributed to helping me out, especially to Mr. David.

[RickyD410]

I am getting ready for bed Mr. David so I apologize if this post is a bit incoherent. How the Summer brothers' powers work on each other was meant to illustrate how all mutant families' powers work against each other when used. That said, I don't think anyone expects you to beholden to continuity over twenty years old, as that is just insane. No one would be able to write or draw anything if you guys were forced to take into account decades of stories published in dozens of concurrent books before putting forth your stories and they are YOUR stories we just read them.

I always thought it was just Cyclops and Havok. Cus the Scarlet Witch's powers affect Quicksilver and Magneto. Jamie Braddock's powers affect the Braddock twins. Magik's powers affect Colossus.

Even if it was down to their DNA, Ruby still might not fit into the equation, cus she has Emma Frost's DNA as well. Cyclops and Havok have their father and mother's DNA in them. But Ruby only has the Summers DNA, mixed with Frost DNA, not Katherine's DNA as well.

[l2aven]

I really enjoyed this issue. I thought it wrapped up the arc very nicely. I usually hate time travel stories because they inevitably run into the usual paradoxes that basically have no ending, but this one was pretty good. The Layla reveal was was great and tying in Trevor Fitzroy was absolutely genius. I'm not sure if it's ever been established before, but I really liked the reveal that Madrox actually has the ability to prevent duplication. As far as I know that's a new development.

I kind of wish there was a bit more interaction between the team and Jamie after he got back, as well as his initial reaction to the fact that, once again, him and Layla had been separated. I suppose the story went long, as is often the case when a writer is on a role. Perhaps in the future there could be a special which covers the events that occurred between the end of issue 50 and the beginning of 200.

There was one thing that did bug me though. Young Layla has told Jamie that they end up getting married. At the time, we were led to believe that she knew this because...well, she knows stuff. In this issue we learn that knowing stuff isn't part of her power, but rather as a result of old Layla "jacking" her (for lack of a better term) with all the information from the future. Here's the thing though. When old Layla gave young Layla all the info, old Layla hasn't married Jamie yet. Presumably, that happens further down the road. So how did young Layla get the knowledge about the marriage? Obviously not from old Layla cause it hadn't happened yet when she gave her all the information.

I'm getting a freakin' headache just writing all of this and making it sound coherent. I hope you get what I mean.

Either way, I've been reading X-Factor since the very first issue and I've been hooked since I've read the original Madrox mini series back in 04. This was a great way to end it after 5 years and here's hoping that starting with #200, we get another 5 years of the awesome art as well as the brilliant writing of Mr. Peter David. This series deserves nothing less.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time play catchup on Fallen Angel.

[Quinnhop]

There was one thing that did bug me though. Young Layla has told Jamie that they end up getting married. At the time, we were led to believe that she knew this because...well, she knows stuff. In this issue we learn that knowing stuff isn't part of her power, but rather as a result of old Layla "jacking" her (for lack of a better term) with all the information from the future. Here's the thing though. When old Layla gave young Layla all the info, old Layla hasn't married Jamie yet. Presumably, that happens further down the road. So how did young Layla get the knowledge about the marriage? Obviously not from old Layla cause it hadn't happened yet when she gave her all the information.

I'm getting a freakin' headache just writing all of this and making it sound coherent. I hope you get what I mean.

Layla spent her life growing up in the future. I'm sure she would have bothered to find out what ends up happening to her and Madrox. So if they got married, she would know, not from experiencing it, but from reading about it.

[RickyD410]

There was one thing that did bug me though. Young Layla has told Jamie that they end up getting married. At the time, we were led to believe that she knew this because...well, she knows stuff. In this issue we learn that knowing stuff isn't part of her power, but rather as a result of old Layla "jacking" her (for lack of a better term) with all the information from the future. Here's the thing though. When old Layla gave young Layla all the info, old Layla hasn't married Jamie yet. Presumably, that happens further down the road. So how did young Layla get the knowledge about the marriage? Obviously not from old Layla cause it hadn't happened yet when she gave her all the information.

Maybe Ruby or someone from the future told Layla that they got married. Remember, she has not only her own experiences, but she had time in the future to learn all of the events from the past 80 years that she missed. Time travel is confusing, but she could have learned while in the future that she and Jamie got married in the past.

[l2aven]

Layla spent her life growing up in the future. I'm sure she would have bothered to find out what ends up happening to her and Madrox. So if they got married, she would know, not from experiencing it, but from reading about it.

Maybe Ruby or someone from the future told Layla that they got married. Remember, she has not only her own experiences, but she had time in the future to learn all of the events from the past 80 years that she missed. Time travel is confusing, but she could have learned while in the future that she and Jamie got married in the past.

Yeah, that makes sense. In as much as these things ever make sense :smile: . Thanks for pointing that out guys.

[RickyD410]

Yeah, that makes sense. In as much as these things ever make sense :smile: . Thanks for pointing that out guys.

Nooo problemo. Welcome to the board by the way. :smile:

[Teeka]

I don't think his duplication is a conscious effort. I think it's the default reaction if he's struck. I just established definitively that he can prevent himself from duping if he needs to.

PAD

(hi, I'm new here. So apologies in advance if any of these questions have been asked before)

I'm confused on a few points regarding Madrox's powers:

1. Ok, so now he can control duplication if he wants to. Are we to assume he learned this in those months he spent with the Summers Rebellion?

2. If Cortex is a dupe, how come in issue 45 he's amazed at the fact that Father John didn't replicate (and concludes that dupes, when left alone for too long, lose the ability to replicate themselves).
I mean, he must already know because that's what happened to him as well.

3. In MC, when the dupe and Layla get captured, the cops use a power dampener. I'd figure that because this Jamie is a dupe, all of 'them' including the first one should disappear since they're all products of Jamie Prime's powers. *

4. Over the years, it's been hinted that Madrox isn't actually a mutant. (For instance, he had his powers from birth). Yet in MC the cops' scanners indicate him as such. Is he, or isn't he?

5. In MC, the whole idea of sending a dupe intop the future and having him commit suicide was that his memories would then come back to Jamie Prime.
So how come (a long time ago, sorry don't have the issue with me here) when 'detective-dupe' had himself shot, his knowledge about Uber and "the true source of {Jamies} powers" weren't transferred to Jamie Prime?

*When this was left unexplained, I was kindof waiting for the following to be revealed:
The 'dupe' who went to Bishop's time actually was Jamie Prime, who had left a dupe behind letting Forge think that dupe was actually him. (Perhaps Jamie thought his dupes cannot be trusted and wanted to go himself.)
Which would explain why the Jamie left behind gains the M tattoo: he's just a dupe and changes along with Jamie Prime. It also explains the temporary coma: when Jamie Prime died in Bishop's future, the dupe left behind became the new Jamie Prime (IIRC, this was hinted at as a possibility in the past). This transition took some trauma and time though, hence the temporary coma.


Anyway, my two cents on this issue:

I thought it was good, but I was counting on a double-sized issue to sum everything up properly. I too felt like it was all rushed a bit.

Too bad we never really found out what Hecat'e actually does (what are those 'negative' fields she generates?). I like the full-circle approach to Layla, even though I will miss the precog-creepyness. I'm sure adult Layla will join the team, because she and Jamie still need to fulfill Rahne's vision: getting killed by her on their wedding night :eek: .

Btw, if Ruby really is the daughter of Scott and Emma, than at some point Emma will have to come out of her diamond state (releasing the Void sliver).. I mean, I can't see how she'd get impregnated while being all diamond (ouch for Scott).

[4sake]

1) I figured that was just the Summers Bros.
2) Where was that established? My feeling was simply that it was easier to tell that a human being was souless than, say, a butterfly. What does an amoral butterfly do, anyway? Vindictively hit your windshield?
3) I don't think his duplication is a conscious effort. I think it's the default reaction if he's struck. I just established definitively that he can prevent himself from duping if he needs to.

PAD

:tongue: :biggrin:

[Peter David]

Layla spent her life growing up in the future. I'm sure she would have bothered to find out what ends up happening to her and Madrox. So if they got married, she would know, not from experiencing it, but from reading about it.

Great, now I've got this mental picture of Layla with eighty years worth of X-Factor paperback collections piled up all around her, reading as fast as she can.

Kind of takes "waiting for the trade" to a whole new level.

PAD

[l2aven]

Great, now I've got this mental picture of Layla with eighty years worth of X-Factor paperback collections piled up all around her, reading as fast as she can.

Kind of takes "waiting for the trade" to a whole new level.

PAD

If it eases your mind, you could pretend she just Googled all the information instead. I can't even begin to imagine what the Google of 80 years from now would be like. It could probably tell her what Madrox had for breakfast on the morning of July 13th 2054.

[Peter David]

(hi, I'm new here. So apologies in advance if any of these questions have been asked before)

I'm confused on a few points regarding Madrox's powers:

1. Ok, so now he can control duplication if he wants to. Are we to assume he learned this in those months he spent with the Summers Rebellion?

Actually I figured it was a slow progression. Remember that in his early days Madrox needed to wear an all-encompassing suit because when he bumped into anything it caused duplication whether he wanted it to or not. Now he no longer does. So I reasoned that somewhere along the way he must have learned to control it, with effort.

2. If Cortex is a dupe, how come in issue 45 he's amazed at the fact that Father John didn't replicate (and concludes that dupes, when left alone for too long, lose the ability to replicate themselves).
I mean, he must already know because that's what happened to him as well.

My reasoning was that it wasn't something that Madrox himself knew and therefore Cortex didn't know it either. Madrox is always learning new things about his dupes, and John Maddox is the longest-lived dupe there is. In terms of his own duping capacity, Cortex really doesn't consider himself a dupe anymore because of the things that were done to him, and just assumed that any loss of duping capacity on his part was due to the changes he had undergone.

3. In MC, when the dupe and Layla get captured, the cops use a power dampener. I'd figure that because this Jamie is a dupe, all of 'them' including the first one should disappear since they're all products of Jamie Prime's powers. *

No, it just would have prevented the dupe from making more dupes of himself.

4. Over the years, it's been hinted that Madrox isn't actually a mutant. (For instance, he had his powers from birth). Yet in MC the cops' scanners indicate him as such. Is he, or isn't he?

I figure that the cops' scanners can't distinguish between the subtleties of being a Killcrop versus a classic mutants.

5. In MC, the whole idea of sending a dupe intop the future and having him commit suicide was that his memories would then come back to Jamie Prime. So how come (a long time ago, sorry don't have the issue with me here) when 'detective-dupe' had himself shot, his knowledge about Uber and "the true source of {Jamies} powers" weren't transferred to Jamie Prime?

That's always been a subjective aspect (as in, it's elastic based upon story needs.) My reasoning is that the longer a dupe is separated from Madrox, the harder time Madrox has reabsorbing the memories if the dupe expires independently of him. So for instance the dupe who got blown up in XF #12, his memories transferred even though Madrox wasn't in proximity to him because he was only a few minutes old. But the detective had been independent of him for quite some time. Had Madrox absorbed him, he would have acquired the memories, but because he died separately from him, he didn't. In other words, the longer the dupes are gone, the more they become independent. If the future dupe had remained separate from Madrox for a year or so, the tactic wouldn't have worked. But they didn't figure it would be a long-term thing.

PAD

[Home made ectoplasm]

That's always been a subjective aspect (as in, it's elastic based upon story needs.)

It is great to hear a writer say this, because so often it is the logical answer for little details that fans get hung up on, and are unwilling to suspend their disbelief about. Stories should never be a slave to minor details of continuity, good stories are paramount.

[Teeka]

It is great to hear a writer say this, because so often it is the logical answer for little details that fans get hung up on, and are unwilling to suspend their disbelief about. Stories should never be a slave to minor details of continuity, good stories are paramount.

Very true, of course.

I gotta say though, I asked all those questions more with the idea that I may had misunderstood a lot about the workings of Jamie's powers, than as an indication that I want everything to 'fit'.

By the way, I didn't expect to get my answers from the writer himself. It means a lot. Thank you kindly, mr. David.

[Mundungus]

I wonder if Layla has a soul.

I always figured the 616 Layla Miller didn't exist until after House of M ended. She was a construct created by the Scarlet Witch within House of M and was woven in to the original reality after HoM as she had always been there.

Layla has always been about giving. Giving memories. Giving information. Giving life. When I read the reveal of her powers to bring the dead back without their soul, it made me think she lacked one as well.

It's just a theory, though.

[Goshin]

Great issue! I'm so glad that judgement war is over...

[Blade X]

wait. so she makes zombies? isn't the zombie thing being done to death?

- no pun intended lolz

Yes , but PAD gets a pass since the idea of a heroic female character having the power to reanimte\ressurrect the dead was done by PAD 20 years ago in his excellent JUSTICE run.

[Blade X]

That's news to me.

Now "Hulk Forever," on the other hand, would be cool. Never happen, though.

PAD

Why do you think a HULK FOREVER series will never happen?

[Alex A Sanchez]

Something about the preview cover to X-Factor 200 looks different...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg

That bulge in her pants: I don't remember seeing that in X-Factor #1-50. Nor anywhere before, actually.


The stomach showing look wasn't that suitable anyways...

Does anyone have a link to the original image? I honestly don't remember the what the bare midriff looked like.

X-Factor #50 will be my last issue. I purchased every issue and every hardcover.

Layla was totally ruined. Thanks a lot. That entire plodding time travel saga for THAT ending? Man...

Between awful Shatterstar, awful Longshot, dull Darwin, completely ruining Layla, Guido's ridiculous new orange costume, blah blah blah.

I enjoyed everything that you listed as not liking, so it's a no-win situation for PAD. I think he should just keep writing as he wants to and not listen to the fans, and things will work out as best as they can. LOVE Guido's new costume. I love all the new costumes. I was soooo excited to see the preview for issue #200: it felt like we were getting a reboot in many ways. I've been missing real costumes since issue #1, and while this probably doesn't mean that the book will become more action orientated, it at least has the look of a hero book, and those seems to sell well.

The thing that still needs revealed, and I don't think has been covered so far, is what adult Layla has been doing since arriving in the pre-house of M "present" (or pre-X-Factor at least) and Jamie arriving back in the present "present".... If we've all followed the story correctly then adult Layla has been hanging around somewhere on earth during the entire X-Factor run, and when she rejoins the team she should be at least a year older than when Jamie last saw her in the future...

confused, no?

This was one of the coolest parts of the reveal!!! Adult Layla has been hiding out here in the present for the duration of the entire series!! Maybe we can have some back-up stories of her hiding out, watching the MC events, or behind the scenes messing with Tryp during the first 12 issues.


I'm just a bit unclear about the two dupes. Forge said he had seen two future timelines in which there were mutants again, so he sent one dupe into each. Number one ended up, together with Layla, in Bishop's time, from which grew the Summers rebellion and everything that followed. Number two became Cortex and ended up in the same timeline, so what happened to where he was originally sent to? He mentioned having been stuck in a vortex, so he may never have arrived there.

And I would have liked to see young Bishop again...

Good point. I think that's what threw me off about the big Cortex reveal too. It was just the dupe showing up in a random spot with new powers, in a different time line. But then again, we would have predicted the dupe's return were it any less random. Because let's be honest: we were all waiting for his return at any moment.

I was beginning to think it was just me since no-one else had mentioned it.

Seriously, doubleyou-tee-eff? I know M's been periodically bleached beyond reason in this book, but that doesn't make going the other way with Guido any better.

Well Guido's Italian: maybe he's from North Sicily (isn't that where they have darker skin?)

This issue was great.. 9.8-10

Butterfly makes so much sense to me now power wise

Honestly, I don't get it. Care to explain?



I little confused about Ruby & Trevor Fitzroy relationship/how they related/etc. :confused:


Once upon a time, Fitzroy was a good guy. Then he died, and Layla returned him to life. Except, when she returns people to life, she is unable to return their soul. The guy then becomes a soulless monster and becomes a villain (thanks to Layla). She's aware that she must do this and does not want to, but she does it anyway. Kind of like Jesus crying in the garden before he was killed.


2) Is anyone offended that it has been established that animals have no souls?
(I'm not, just curious).

I went to Catholic school for many years- I was taught there that animals don't have souls.

I'm slighty confused, where is old Layla going? Layla musn't leave the series.

I must say, as much as I'm loving old Layla, I became incredibly giddy when I saw young Layla - I loved her so much, she was amazing.

Old Layla is going to hide out, avoiding the team, until Madrox returns from the future. Young Layla will leave the orphanage and wander into X-Factor's office, just as she did at the beginning of the series.

[Alex A Sanchez]

I forgot to add:

the coolest thing about the reveal of Layla's powers is that we got to see her use them in issue #6! PAD hinted that Layla's secret was in the issue, AND IT WAS. There was a dead butterfly that came back to life at the very end, and it fluttered away. I need to reread these issues, knowing that PAD had planned this all from the very beginning.

[Blade X]

Well, there was just some very strong character development for Guido in the issue 200 preview: he's now black!
:biggrin:

Seriously, when I read it I sort of wondered if maybe the colorist failed to recognize Guido without the curl, and said, "Hmmm... big, muscular, shaved head....... he must be black! Let's pour on the ink."

It can't just have ben the shadows. Everyone else in the scene was still white.

-S'Cipio

Maybe Guido now being black is a trade off for making Sunspot white in the current NEW MUTANTS series. Remember, for every action there's an equal opposite reaction.

[4sake]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/NewSiryn.jpg



Honestly, I don't get it. Care to explain?





Well like you just said here :

I forgot to add:

the coolest thing about the reveal of Layla's powers is that we got to see her use them in issue #6! PAD hinted that Layla's secret was in the issue, AND IT WAS. There was a dead butterfly that came back to life at the very end, and it fluttered away. I need to reread these issues, knowing that PAD had planned this all from the very beginning.

storyline wise - I thought it weird she knew so much stuff.. I wonder why would she know some stuff that seem unimportant to me. If her powers were like Density, but I think it make more sense that she knows all what she know because her older self gave her the memories.

power wise - that hold butterfly thing in # 6 & in HoM.. I thought she might had healing powers when she was in HoM because it seemed as she was fix/heal ppl minds in that story line.

[Nicoclaws]

Just one question... during the first run, why was Layla invisible to Tryp ? i'm a little confused about that.

[Teeka]

I love all the new costumes. I was soooo excited to see the preview for issue #200: it felt like we were getting a reboot in many ways. I've been missing real costumes since issue #1, and while this probably doesn't mean that the book will become more action orientated, it at least has the look of a hero book, and those seems to sell well.

That would be bit of a disappointment for me. One thing I love about X-factor is that they're not really heroes, more like 'regular flawed people who happen to have powers'... Having costumes kindof ruins that. IMHO there's enough X-hero books already out there, I hope this one stays different.



Once upon a time, Fitzroy was a good guy. Then he died, and Layla returned him to life. Except, when she returns people to life, she is unable to return their soul. The guy then becomes a soulless monster and becomes a villain (thanks to Layla). She's aware that she must do this and does not want to, but she does it anyway. Kind of like Jesus crying in the garden before he was killed.

I thought 4sakes question was more about why Ruby said "He's my son". Which i'm wondering, too.

Maybe Guido now being black is a trade off for making Sunspot white in the current NEW MUTANTS series. Remember, for every action there's an equal opposite reaction.

Yeah, that's been annoying me like crazy. Never understood why they did that.

Same thing with M and Darwin (okay, the Darwin situation was explained as an effect of his powers, but still).

[Pyro]

Okay. So, I've read this issue twice over now along with going back over a bunch of the previous issues. The beauty of issue 50 was that as so much got answered, more questions have developed.

Now that we know some of the particulars of Layla's nature, I'm left wondering: "Why?" Since her debut, she has been a key figure in a lot of X-history. Leading the heroes through House of M, preventing X-Factor from figuring out how to repower mutants, and organizing the Summers Rebellion in Bishop's timeline. But I'm wondering, why it was necessary for her to be the one guiding history in that direction? Why did she have to give herself the knowledge to do so?

It seems that her ultimate purpose (And it seems to be a purpose rather than a goal, since she claims to have no choice in the matter) is to guide Homo Superior into a brighter future. When she stopped X-Factor from repowering mutants, she prevented the awful future Tryp saw where Mutants ran rampant. In Bishop's timeline, she organized the Summers Rebellion, which led to a more peaceful future between mutants and humans. Forget the messiah baby, Hope, Layla's really the savior of mutantkind.

The only kink in that theory though is that if she's trying to make a brighter future for mutants, why did she unravel the House of M reality, where things were nearly ideal? Here's where my theory gets really wacky.

I've long postulated that perhaps Layla did not exist before House of M. That is to say, perhaps she was a construct of the Scarlet Witch, a subconscious tool created to undo all the damage she had done while insane. After all, the only role she really played in her original appearance was that of Deus ex machina.

The only thing that contradicts that is the idea that she was at the orphanage before House of M... Well, maybe after House of M was undone, Wanda inserted her into reality that way, having her background be an orphan... just like her. Wouldn't it make sense for a woman who was unable to have children despite having the power to alter reality, and who also had deep family issues, blaming her line for the strife of mutants, to maybe subconsciously want to conceive a "child" who would undo all the damage she and Magneto had done? Perhaps, on some level she realized that her House of M quick-fix wasn't the way to do things, and instead, she inserted Layla into the real world to set things right.

In X-Factor #12, Tryp said that Layla was a force of chaos. I wonder just how true that is. And ever since House of M, I've wanted Layla to meet Wanda. Just to see what would happen. Forget Speed and Wiccan. Layla is the one who really needs to confront Wanda.

So really, the entirety of PAD's X-Factor run has been nothing but a subversive attempt to become the main X-Book, with his characters being more effectual in safeguarding the mutant line than the X-Men have been in years. :tongue:

But to be honest, my theory could be a lot of bunk, after all, I imagine it would be quite a chore to reveal anything like that in a story. Time for a few more crazy theories!

1. Layla is Hope's mother... she had to be up to something between being brought back to our timeline and whenever she reappears in X-Factor.

2. Layla is not a pawn of chaos, related to Scarlet Witch, but instead she is a pawn of DOOM, in his quest to impose his order on the world and make a mutant army.

3. Future stories involving Layla under PAD will be completely unpredictable and we have no choice but to wait until he further unravels her mystery.

Thanks PAD for all the great stories and for giving me lots to think about. Here's to 50, no... 200 more! *cheers*

[Leirus]

Actually I figured it was a slow progression. Remember that in his early days Madrox needed to wear an all-encompassing suit because when he bumped into anything it caused duplication whether he wanted it to or not. Now he no longer does. So I reasoned that somewhere along the way he must have learned to control it, with effort.



My reasoning was that it wasn't something that Madrox himself knew and therefore Cortex didn't know it either. Madrox is always learning new things about his dupes, and John Maddox is the longest-lived dupe there is. In terms of his own duping capacity, Cortex really doesn't consider himself a dupe anymore because of the things that were done to him, and just assumed that any loss of duping capacity on his part was due to the changes he had undergone.



No, it just would have prevented the dupe from making more dupes of himself.



I figure that the cops' scanners can't distinguish between the subtleties of being a Killcrop versus a classic mutants.



That's always been a subjective aspect (as in, it's elastic based upon story needs.) My reasoning is that the longer a dupe is separated from Madrox, the harder time Madrox has reabsorbing the memories if the dupe expires independently of him. So for instance the dupe who got blown up in XF #12, his memories transferred even though Madrox wasn't in proximity to him because he was only a few minutes old. But the detective had been independent of him for quite some time. Had Madrox absorbed him, he would have acquired the memories, but because he died separately from him, he didn't. In other words, the longer the dupes are gone, the more they become independent. If the future dupe had remained separate from Madrox for a year or so, the tactic wouldn't have worked. But they didn't figure it would be a long-term thing.

PAD

There is something there... it seems that, the longer the dupes are independent, the nearer they are to become "Real persons" and not dupes anymore. I wonder, if there would be a point, where Madrox would not be able to recover them anymore, where they are even able to have childs of their own. I do not know why, but I think that would make sense for a killcrop. (It is just a hunch)

[streator]

i read this last night, kind of thought that things were wrapped up a bit too quickly.

why did ruby joke about being fitzroy's mother? that seemed strange to me. am i missing a joke or something?

i don't know how i feel about layla's powers. it's obvious that she doesn't want to use them, so we'll likely not see them very often, but i would have preferred to have kept things vague and have her just "knowing stuff" rather than where we're at now.

i liked the preview for 200 at the end, and am looking forward to the team starting fresh in nyc.

[tenlientl]

I'm sorry guys, I can't read all 11 pages to see what everyone else thinks. But I had to log in just to say something.

What the heck did they do to Layla Miller. I totally loved X-Factor 50 and was in shock at the end.

It's great Layla's "back." I got into comics during House of M and I love her. However, I feel she just got ruined by taking her "she knows stuff" power out. To be fair, I did want that explained last year(I took a break from comics, just got back and trying to catch up).

Anyone else feel like Layla got ruined? I'm also pretty mad she's gone again.

[tenlientl]

double post. the site's acting up on me. no way to delete this from what i know.