Was Brubaker Better Than We Thought?

[darknessatnoon]

It recently occurred to me that I missed a few clever character reconceptualizations during Brubaker's run. Like for example, Skids being reintroduced as a double-agent after having left a string of (by now forgotten) betrayals behind her. Then there's the fact that as a noir writer, he was the one who wrote the main Bishop as "crooked cop" scenes in Messiah Complex. In retrospect, I find these espionage and crime twists exceedingly funny. I really think that after a while he just started having fun with the book. The QWERTY joke is a great example of that.

What were the hidden prizes in Brubaker's run? Was there anything of note in Deadly Genesis (other than the Emma as stripper back-up story) and in the Space Opera, or did he only hit his stride in the grounded "urban" arcs?

[NickFury90]

If his runs on Gotham Cental, Catwoman, Daredevil, Captain America, Criminal, Sleeper, and Immortal Iron Fist say anything, then yeah he's incredibly talented. I also enjoyed his parts the most during Messiah Complex.

[Azure]

He was worse than people give him credit for. No clever surprises and tricks, just blandness.

[Prodigy55]

I liked him, Rise and Fall was good.

[CmX]

His Uncanny run was boring and slow paced. No real excitment in it at all.

[Talisman]

I loved his work. Sure, he had some pacing problems with Rise, and he got saddled with having Sal Larocca on art, but he put out some pretty good stuff, imo.

[Swashbuckler]

HEPZIBAH! She was shining star in his run and I really enjoyed her and Warpath together, even though it did seem like a quick pairing, I excused it as alien animal lust. And Warpath NEVER getting any from Siryn for years.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Haven't read it :frown:

[worstblogever]

What were the hidden prizes in Brubaker's run? Was there anything of note in Deadly Genesis (other than the Emma as stripper back-up story) and in the Space Opera, or did he only hit his stride in the grounded "urban" arcs?

Vulcan is lame, but really, Darwin, Petra and Sway were great ideas for characters. More on the latter two, since Darwin's like a not-Pam-Anderson version of her. That made it better.

And really, his Krakoa flashbacks were terrifying. It was like a good horror movie. Scared teens in over their head with a monster on the loose? Good stuff.

Plus, I liked the Extremists (except for the sewer sex). I thought he wrote a good Masque, and his Morlocks.

[timbox]

His Uncanny run lacked the wit and authorial nuances that are needed to overpower the usual noir blah.

[Filthy Mutie]

I don't think his Uncanny run was superb in quality, and I'm not into the space opera stories, but it was definitely better than Fraction's run as it stands right now. So, my answer to the thread title is: yes.

[darknessatnoon]

And really, his Krakoa flashbacks were terrifying. It was like a good horror movie. Scared teens in over their head with a monster on the loose? Good stuff.



This is the kind of observation about his interest in genres that I was looking for. This thread wasn't an invitation to Azure for more idiotic comments. Thank you, WBE.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Rise and Fall, yes.

The Extremists? Hell no.

[darknessatnoon]

His Uncanny run lacked the wit and authorial nuances that are needed to overpower the usual noir blah.

I think there were nuances but that he wasn't banging the readers over the head with them. I'm sure if he weren't driven off most of his books by race-baiting Patriot fans and crazy Magneto fans who were enraged that their master was being used as a publicity stunt, we'd have seen more genre work from Brubes.

Rise and Fall, yes.

The Extremists? Hell no.

I have no respect for this opinion.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I think there were nuances but that he wasn't banging the readers over the head with them. I'm sure if he weren't driven off most of his books by race-baiting Patriot fans and crazy Magneto fans who were enraged that their master was being used as a publicity stunt, we'd have seen more genre work from Brubes.



I have no respect for this opinion.

His noir tendencies bore. At least in the space opera, he made a concerted effort to push that shit to the background.

[Azure]

This is the kind of observation about his interest in genres that I was looking for. This thread wasn't an invitation to Azure for more idiotic comments. Thank you, WBE.

I question your reading comprehension :frown:

[Jay Dogg]

With the exception of the Hippy garbage and the whole 1st "Deadly Genesis" team...I'd give his run a solid B. I liked Rise & Fall...didn't like the ending because in 12 issues, the Vulcan mess could have been resolved because I hated as a character even more when Yost did Emperor Vulcan, and during Kingbreaker. I liked Extremists, but with the ending regarding the revelation about Magneto becoming "The Leader" of the mutants, I'm just wondering if Fraction will play upon that or will they just forget it happened. I enjoyed his part of Messiah Complex, and the Mother Russia parts of his last arc, but that hippy stuff...eh.

[quillero]

I just read Extremists, MC and DWS. I enjoyed it.

His work had an..."intimate?"... feel to them.

[darknessatnoon]

His noir tendencies bore.

Yeah, that's a view...

[RolandJP]

I liked it. Thought he got a raw deal of criticism.

[darknessatnoon]

I just read Extremists, MC and DWS. I enjoyed it.

His work had an..."intimate?"... feel to them.

I wonder if that's because in Extremists and in Rise and Fall, Larocca and Tan both pulled in for tons of close ups. Also, Brubaker was more interested in character work than Fraction is, so I can see how in retrospect it all feels more intimate. But when I think back to the long-coming Bishop/Gambit confrontation in Messiah Complex, that also could be read as intimate since so much history was being compressed into such a tiny interaction.

[timbox]

I wonder if that's because in Extremists and in Rise and Fall, Larocca and Tan both pulled in for tons of close ups. Also, Brubaker was more interested in character work than Fraction is, so I can see how in retrospect it all feels more intimate. But when I think back to the long-coming Bishop/Gambit confrontation in Messiah Complex, that also could be read as intimate since so much history was being compressed into such a tiny interaction.

There was more character work; the problem was the choice of characters. The Shi'ar and the Morlocks, mixed with the most boring X-Team of all time. Bad choices.

His high points didn't get enough work. You already mentioned Bishop and Gambit; he also should have spent more time with Petra and Sway.

[darknessatnoon]

There was more character work; the problem was the choice of characters. The Shi'ar and the Morlocks, mixed with the most boring X-Team of all time. Bad choices.

His high points didn't get enough work. You already mentioned Bishop and Gambit; he also should have spent more time with Petra and Sway.

I don't accept the "he should have used better characters" line of argument. The whole point was that by using lower tier characters, he could do clever reconceptualizations (as was done with Skids). He also made Polaris and Masque usable again, whether you happen to like them or not. He tried to rehabilitate Rachel Grey, but not even Shakespeare could do that.

[quillero]

I wonder if that's because in Extremists and in Rise and Fall, Larocca and Tan both pulled in for tons of close ups. Also, Brubaker was more interested in character work than Fraction is, so I can see how in retrospect it all feels more intimate. But when I think back to the long-coming Bishop/Gambit confrontation in Messiah Complex, that also could be read as intimate since so much history was being compressed into such a tiny interaction.

It could be. Especially if you compare the pace and the threath levels with Carey's frenetic X Men's. It shows that the villians and the superheroing were not supposed to be very focused on.

[timbox]

He tried to rehabilitate Rachel Grey, but not even Shakespeare could do that.

It wasn't just Rachel, though. I still don't care about Hepzibah, Warpath, Storm, or any of the other characters he used.

[darknessatnoon]

It could be. Especially if you compare the pace and the threath levels with Carey's frenetic X Men's. It shows that the villians and the superheroing were not supposed to be very focused on.

Yeah, you could never describe Ramos and Bachallo as "intimate" artists.

[RolandJP]

I don't accept the "he should have used better characters" line of argument. The whole point was that by using lower tier characters, he could do clever reconceptualizations (as was done with Skids). He also made Polaris and Masque usable again, whether you happen to like them or not. He tried to rehabilitate Rachel Grey, but not even Shakespeare could do that.

If Rachel had went Bishop mad..it would have worked. Talk about a character primed for that role. Missed opportunity there.

[darknessatnoon]

It wasn't just Rachel, though. I still don't care about Hepzibah, Warpath, Storm, or any of the other characters he used.

Who cares if you care about them? Those were the characters. Now the question is did he tell a good story with them? And I say, yes, as difficult as it is to make good use of Storm he rose to the challenge with inferior materials.

[timbox]

Who cares if you care about them? Those were the characters. Now the question is did he tell a good story with them? And I say, yes, as difficult as it is to make good use of Storm he rose to the challenge with inferior materials.

Are you saying you appreciated his plot?

[Azure]

I liked the way he remembered that Storm was claustrophobic. That's a character trait we rarely get to see thrown in our faces time and time and time again.

[darknessatnoon]

I liked the way he remembered that Storm was claustrophobic. That's a character trait we rarely get to see thrown in our faces time and time and time again.

I suppose a truly talented writer would leave her asleep during a major battle.

[darknessatnoon]

Are you saying you appreciated his plot?

No. I don't think the plots were exceptional. Masque not deforming Warpath because "it wasn't his time yet" showed that Brubaker had flubbed the future-past type storytelling. I liked the way he thought about characters and his approach to character work in general.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Perhaps this is the opportunity to re-read the Extremists from a critical perspective instead of the disappointed timbox fanboi perspective I initially held.

I will begin thusly.

[KiplingKat]

Is wasn't as bad as Fraction is now, but his run sure as heck was not good. With bland characterizations and meandering plots that went nowhere, at best it rates "mediocre".

[Astonishing!]

I recently read it in tpb, and I just didn't understand why he got all the critism he received for it, I enjoyed it a lot. And what's more he actually made Warpath cool again.

[worstblogever]

Some ideas in Rise and Fall were really good, it's just that the execution and pacing were S-L-O-W.

Rise and Fall... the good: Seeing Deathbird make her play to regain/share the throne with Vulcan was interesting, as was her seduction of him. Xavier getting repowered via the M'Kraan crystal? Nice way to reverse his depowering. Vulcan pulling an Oedpius and killing his own father, Corsair, thereby changing the status quo for Havok and the Starjammers? Also interesting. It put Alex in a bold new direction, gave him real focus. Seeing a parallel between how Darwin handled his ordeal, versus Vulcan? They're practically foils of each other.

Now, there also was Nightcrawler doing a whole lot of not much, Warpath flexing a lot, Polaris coming off as... all over the place... and Rachel whining 24-7 when she wasn't spitting out feathers from giving her new pal, Korvus, a BJ.

The bad stuff over a year, and wasted panel space makes it hard to remember that arc fondly. Were it condensed into 6 issues, maybe 8, or had some of the fat trimmed to jazz up the story... I think it would be remembered much more fondly.

[Azure]

I suppose a truly talented writer would leave her asleep during a major battle.

Matt Fraction's wildly rubbish writing doesn't elevate Brubaker's mildly rubbish writing. Milligan should've taken over.

[darknessatnoon]

Some ideas in Rise and Fall were really good, it's just that the execution and pacing were S-L-O-W.

Rise and Fall... the good: Seeing Deathbird make her play to regain/share the throne with Vulcan was interesting, as was her seduction of him. Xavier getting repowered via the M'Kraan crystal? Nice way to reverse his depowering. Vulcan pulling an Oedpius and killing his own father, Corsair, thereby changing the status quo for Havok and the Starjammers? Also interesting. It put Alex in a bold new direction, gave him real focus. Seeing a parallel between how Darwin handled his ordeal, versus Vulcan? They're practically foils of each other.

Now, there also was Nightcrawler doing a whole lot of not much, Warpath flexing a lot, Polaris coming off as... all over the place... and Rachel whining 24-7 when she wasn't spitting out feathers from giving her new pal, Korvus, a BJ.

The bad stuff over a year, and wasted panel space makes it hard to remember that arc fondly. Were it condensed into 6 issues, maybe 8, or had some of the fat trimmed to jazz up the story... I think it would be remembered much more fondly.

I think the Nightcrawler doing nothing was a side-effect of the initial plans to have had him replaced by a Skrull early in the story.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Some ideas in Rise and Fall were really good, it's just that the execution and pacing were S-L-O-W.

Rise and Fall... the good: Seeing Deathbird make her play to regain/share the throne with Vulcan was interesting, as was her seduction of him. Xavier getting repowered via the M'Kraan crystal? Nice way to reverse his depowering. Vulcan pulling an Oedpius and killing his own father, Corsair, thereby changing the status quo for Havok and the Starjammers? Also interesting. It put Alex in a bold new direction, gave him real focus. Seeing a parallel between how Darwin handled his ordeal, versus Vulcan? They're practically foils of each other.

Now, there also was Nightcrawler doing a whole lot of not much, Warpath flexing a lot, Polaris coming off as... all over the place... and Rachel whining 24-7 when she wasn't spitting out feathers from giving her new pal, Korvus, a BJ.

The bad stuff over a year, and wasted panel space makes it hard to remember that arc fondly. Were it condensed into 6 issues, maybe 8, or had some of the fat trimmed to jazz up the story... I think it would be remembered much more fondly.

Rise was the best character study of Deathbird done up to that point - and remains so today. For that alone, it holds a treasured spot on my Ikea Billy bookcase.

It was the perfect tonic to wash away the insipid, aborted Deathbird-Bishop romance from a few years back.

[timbox]

I love character work; it is my favorite part of most stories. Brubaker may have been doing a good amount of it, but it didn't work. Exploring characters should make you feel something about them; whether you like them, hate them, or understand them. The characters should have some sort of impact. This Uncanny run just left me to fell dead inside

[Home made ectoplasm]

Matt Fraction's wildly rubbish writing

Wait, what?

[Talisman]

Rise would have been better had he had Rachel push that bitch Lilandra to her death in that story.

[Filthy Mutie]

Matt Fraction's wildly rubbish writing doesn't elevate Brubaker's mildly rubbish writing.

I thought about this when I posted my first reply. The reason I thought it was justified and posted it anyway was because Uncanny really hasn't had a writer at the helm who could deliver and make it the flagship it really ought to be in a really, really long time. So, because of this context, I felt like less of a slimeball.

By the way, I do like Brubaker's other work. I'm not backhanding him as a writer.

[quillero]

Wait, what?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/201001/111_UNCANNY_X_MEN_520.jpg

[Azure]

Wait, what?

I don't want to derail the topic, but yes, I don't like anything after Lovelorn. Brubaker's run felt, to me, like two miniseries ("Vulcan", "Morlocks") which could've spun out of Deadly Genesis, at a time when the title would've benefitted more from dealing with M-Day - thus making Endangered Species unnecessary. The stories weren't bad, but twelve-issue stories barely ever work and neither had any plot points which 'popped' at all, leaving both stories feeling bland. Messiah Complex was brilliant, though, from all concerned.

[worstblogever]

I think the Nightcrawler doing nothing was a side-effect of the initial plans to have had him replaced by a Skrull early in the story.

I think that could be a possibility. I wonder if we'll ever find out he was just "hedging his bets" on how he was writing Kurt.

And if there ever was a time to swap out Nightcrawler with a Skrull, it would've been during a galactic adventure.

Rise was the best character study of Deathbird done up to that point - and remains so today. For that alone, it holds a treasured spot on my Ikea Billy bookcase.

Yeah, that may have been the best part of RAFOSTE.

Although, the sudden awakening of D'Ken after like, a million years was a bit of a surprise, in all that, too. It still made for an interesting dynamic. Next thing you know, someone will bring the "never seen" Neranami sister that Deathbird killed pre-X-continuity back into the equation.

[AcesX1X]

i would trade in all 12 copies of my uncanny x-men #516 for one copy of the extremist tpb.

[4sake]

No, just better than Fraction imo...

[Shadowkurt]

I really like "Extremists". I love Storm, and it was the only story that got her right since the whole Panther thing started, besides "Worlds Apart". And it had some dialogue that really got the characters and the relation between them. I especially like:

Caliban: I do not want Masque's death.
Warpath: You are a better man than me, then.
Caliban: No. I just think a severe beating is in order.

or:

Storm: You look...
Hepzibah: Careful with next words!
Storm: Dignified. I was going to say you look dignified. .................... For a wet cat.

(I'm quoting them from memory)

Deadly Genesis and RAFOTSE was basically a single, 18-issue story that doesn't read bad at all if you take it as a whole in HC or TPB, but which was just too long on a monthly basis, and to kill Banshee as a device to set Vulcan up as a major menace was unnecessary. However, the relationship between Havok and Vulcan, Vulcan and Darwin, Vulcan and Deathbird, Havok and Polaris were quite good - he basically repaired Polaris from what Austen had done to her. Corsair's death made sense as a climax, though it would have been better if he had been able to follow up on it himself.

Everything he wrote after MC is best forgotten.

Besides, in the Messiah Complex Spotlight, Brubaker said that he had originally gotten Uncanny only for twelve issues, but halfway through RAFOTSE he learned that his intended replacement would not take over and he would stay longer on the title. Has anyone ever heard who was supposed to succeed him?

[Novaya Havoc]

Brubaker was amazing and should never have been jettisoned from the title.

[darknessatnoon]

Brubaker was amazing and should never have been jettisoned from the title.

I think he quit. He is too famous to have to put up with all the needless shit the x-fans were throwing at him.

[Novaya Havoc]

I think he quit. He is too famous to have to put up with all the needless shit the x-fans were throwing at him.

But I only gave him <3 and adoration.

So unfair.

[Leirus]

I think it was probably a mistake to start with a Space Saga. He should have done a couple of arcs in earth and then move to the space... The Shi Ar crap is the less related thema to all what the X-men are about...

[RickyD410]

I never read past the first issue of Rise and Fall cus I'm not a big fan of space stories. But I thought he did a great job with that first issue. And I enjoyed Deadly Genesis for the most part, but I always hated Vulcan. I never really felt bad for him, I just thought he was terrible from the start.

But I agree with worstblogever, those flashbacks to Krakoa were great. Terrifying like a horror movie, they were really good.

I also read The Extremists, and I enjoyed it for the most part, but I thought the ending was a little weak. I was expecting more payoff. I remember thinking that it fizzled out.

And while Hepzibah was ok, I never approved of her relationship with Warpath. Two issues after Corsair (who was basically her husband since forever) dies, she shacks up with James? That really doesnt make any sense at all. They felt really forced. And sewer sex was just stupid.

[The Black Guardian]

Nope.

Brubaker's Uncanny was actually worse than we've even come to realize yet.

Qwerty is just a small example of this.

[Shadowkurt]

We don't actually know how much time passed between issue 486 (return from space) and 487 (beginning of Extremists). It may have been weeks. But I agree that Warpath/Hepzibah did feel rushed.

That panel of Hepzibah armed to overkill, however, may be a high point of Tan's work :smile:

And Brubaker didn't "start" with a space arc. As he said, when he began RAFOTSE, he thought it would be his only story at Uncanny, not the first arc of a longer run.

[Pixie_Solanas]

If I remember from the tpb notes in RAOFTSE, he had to be convinced to even take on the X-Men run.

[Filthy Mutie]

If I remember from the tpb notes in RAOFTSE, he had to be convinced to even take on the X-Men run.

I remember this now that you mention it.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I remember this now that you mention it.

For someone who didn't have his heart set on the title (or the characters), i'd say he acquitted himself largely well.

[Mind_Witch]

Brubacker's run was not particularly compelling. "Rise and Fall" was simply too long and concerned characters that were not favourites of mine, and 12-issues odd felt stretched at best on a space story with an uninteresting antagonist. "Extremists" or "the hippy" arc were likewise uniteresting: although in retrospect, as much as Brubacker's run is in no way my favourite re. uncanny, he did use more than a select few x-men, and the character development and plot did not feel quite as shallow as Fraction's is.

Whilst I absolutely loathe Vulcan, he was a developed character, in a reasonably short space of time: and I liked the idea of the pairing between Hepzibah and Warparth, as well as giving greater prominence to Hepzibah that has sadly gone unfufilled since Brubacker's departure. Otherwise, he did not leave such a big impression on his run, in hindsight or otherwise.

[Havok83]

I liekd Brubaker on UXM. I wish he had stayed instead of leaving and letting Fraction take over

[Aguja]

His run wasn't bad. I thought Rise & Fall suffered a lot from pacing but the story overall was alright. Part of the problem was Vulcan just wasn't a strong enough character or villain to carry such a storyline. It got better when he was teamed up with Deathbird who is a very good villain. I also did enjoy his character driven stories, something Fraction lacks. I probably would have enjoyed his run more had I liked more of his cast. I only really cared for Polaris and Havok. And I did feel he wrote Polaris rather poorly, whitewashing over her issues and having her jump right back into a relationship with Havok was rather lazy. But he did wonders for her powers.

He also made use of the move to San Fran so much better than Fraction did. I was actually really excited about the relocation.

And he wrote Martinique as a credible threat, unlike in the Sisterhood :mad:

[psycwave]

I always loved Bru's run on Uncanny. I liked Rise and even thought the Extremists was pretty well written. Or at least how he wrote Storm, and the inclusion on the duplicitous Skids was a nice touch.

Plus he gave us Qwerty. I wish he would come back.

[Maestro]

Deadly Genesis was really good. I like the new characters he introduced. He was better when he got to write the main cast. c'mon, Rachel Summers? no one cares about her! no one!! he wrote Cyclops and Emma a lot better than Fraction does

[DeadXMan]

Bru's run may not been as ground breaking as his Cap, but it didn't leave me wanting to kill myself with a melon baller like fraction's dose. :frown:

[deathsatan]

bru's run just came off like he was disinterested to me. Like he was into it with deadly genesis, ran out of steam half way thru rise and fall, and phones in the extremists. The contrast between the extremists and the arc going on in x-men at the time was nuts. Those adjectiveless issues were crack, the uncanny issues were sleeping pills. It was just slow. The mood was there, the villain was creepy, but the pacing killed everything. Fraction, love him or hate him, seems much more plugged in.

[darknessatnoon]

bru's run just came off like he was disinterested to me. Like he was into it with deadly genesis, ran out of steam half way thru rise and fall, and phones in the extremists. The contrast between the extremists and the arc going on in x-men at the time was nuts. Those adjectiveless issues were crack, the uncanny issues were sleeping pills. It was just slow. The mood was there, the villain was creepy, but the pacing killed everything. Fraction, love him or hate him, seems much more plugged in.

I have nothing against comparing it to Adjectiveless at the time, but given that Carey was writing one of the more perfect runs in the history of the book it's really not fair to compare. I'm really just looking for reasons to appreciate Brubaker's run. Hidden moments. I think I'm going to reread Extremists when I'm done running payroll this morning.

[rwsmith]

Yeah, I thought his run was pretty good looking back on it.

It is amusing to me that at the time there was a moratorium of sorts on using an X-character on more than one team (probably due to Wolverine being on AXM, UXM and adjectiveless prior to the Brubaker/Carey "creative reload"). So both Bru and Carey just drag in a Wolverine substitute right off the bat (Warpath and Sabretooth). Kind of funny, at least to me.

[darknessatnoon]

Yeah, I thought his run was pretty good looking back on it.

It is amusing to me that at the time there was a moratorium of sorts on using an X-character on more than one team (probably due to Wolverine being on AXM, UXM and adjectiveless prior to the Brubaker/Carey "creative reload"). So both Bru and Carey just drag in a Wolverine substitute right off the bat (Warpath and Sabretooth). Kind of funny, at least to me.

I'm really shocked to see you praise a comic without Wolverine, but as you pointed out, he was basically there anyway.

[rwsmith]

There are plenty of comics I enjoy without Wolverine. It's just that New Avengers, Astonishing X-men and Uncanny X-men aren't among them right now. Without his appearance/membership, I probably wouldn't bother picking up those titles. That's what I meant in that other thread, by the way. Not that Wolverine has to appear in every book for me to enjoy it.

Moon Knight, Dark Avengers (which I guess technically does have a Wolverine in it), Brubaker's Cap run (until they bring Steve Rogers back), Batman and Robin, and The Boys to name some of them.

I honestly don't read all that many comics anyway. Probably only about 10-12 per month or so.

[infernohara]

I actually liked Bruaker's runs. Deadly Genesis was great and really dove into the summer's brothers and Xavier. I loved that Wolverine, nightcrawler and colossus little bromance and capture/torture featuring Omega red and that whole Morlock deal with Storm, Hepzibah and Warpath.


What I love most about Brubaker though is his characters. The man knows how to make you actually like the characters. With Bucky Cap (who i love) I was engaged in this guys inner conflict and his supporting cast of people I shouldn't care for and haven't really read, but do. He made Vulcan, Petra, Sway and Darwin. 4 awesome characters and though some aren't liked Petra and Sway are still talked about and we didn't even get that much into their pasts. Warpath was awesome because of him......I don't know what it is...I just love Brubaker's characters.

[darknessatnoon]

A lot of people complain that Bru ignored the fall out from MDAY, but all the lost mutant energy WAS the fallout from MDAY and Vulcan absorbed that. He was directly addressing Decimation.

[darknessatnoon]

http://i36.tinypic.com/s2v3fm.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/4vld9h.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/28bwpyg.jpg

[Filthy Mutie]

For someone who didn't have his heart set on the title (or the characters), i'd say he acquitted himself largely well.

Yeah, he definitely rose to the challenge and approached it as a professional.

At what point did Fraction start co-writing with him? The bizarre and totally out-of-place hippy storyline that somehow set up the San Francisco rush and the Sisterhood arc?

[darknessatnoon]

http://i33.tinypic.com/1zlyxq8.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/j7xfnp.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/k54un5.jpg

[jmc247]

His run wasn't bad. I thought Rise & Fall suffered a lot from pacing but the story overall was alright. Part of the problem was Vulcan just wasn't a strong enough character or villain to carry such a storyline. It got better when he was teamed up with Deathbird who is a very good villain. I also did enjoy his character driven stories, something Fraction lacks. I probably would have enjoyed his run more had I liked more of his cast. I only really cared for Polaris and Havok. And I did feel he wrote Polaris rather poorly, whitewashing over her issues and having her jump right back into a relationship with Havok was rather lazy. But he did wonders for her powers.


By crushing Vulcan's suit? She could have done that in the Silver Age. Nah, powerwise she was far stronger, more versatile and much more ruthless with her powers before Brubaker's run under Austen/Milligan and after his run under Yost. But, otherwise yes you are right he basically tried to turn back the clock with the character to the 70s and then he just dropped the storyline along with the character in space for other writers to deal with and several years later it still isn't resolved.

[darknessatnoon]

By crushing Vulcan's suit? She could have done that in the Silver Age. Nah, powerwise she was far stronger, more versatile and much more ruthless with her powers before Brubaker's run under Austen/Milligan and after his run under Yost. But, otherwise yes you are right he basically tried to turn back the clock with the character to the 70s and then he just dropped the storyline along with the character in space for other writers to deal with and several years later it still isn't resolved.

The difference being Chuck Austen was a hack and Brubaker is a good writer. No one cares about Polaris's FEATS. Be grateful she's no longer a lunatic.

[jmc247]

The difference being Chuck Austen was a hack and Brubaker is a good writer. No one cares about Polaris's FEATS. Be grateful she's no longer a lunatic.

I guess according to you that means Yost is also 'hack' because she was blowing up starships under his run with her. Crushing a metal suit vs blowing up starships... which would I take? That is a hard one. If she actually killed Vulcan I might have taken the crushing of his metal suit to end the storyline.

[darknessatnoon]

I guess according to you that means Yost is also 'hack' because she was blowing up starships under his run with her.

No. Chuck Austen was a hack aside from the FEATS, but since Claramazon FEATS are your only standard for judging a work I can't really expect you to understand.

[jmc247]

No. Chuck Austen was a hack aside from the FEATS, but since Claramazon FEATS are your only standard for judging a work I can't really expect you to understand.

:wink:

I would be happy if she spent the next five issues of her space arc with Crystal (and Pietro when he comes by) just talking and playing politics in the Inhuman series rather then fighting for five issues with the Imperial Guard in the IG series. Though I likely won't get what I want. Power feats are nice, but they are hardly the sole thing I rate a comic on. That said for RAFOTSE she had no real character development to speak of other then shacking up with Alex again so power feats were lets just say more important then they were in a series like WoK were she spent half the time in a non military setting getting character development.

If RAFOTSE could have used something it would have been real character interaction between the X-Men in space not just a few short lines between the characters every so often that I can hardly remember.

[Waterlily]

If I remember from the tpb notes in RAOFTSE, he had to be convinced to even take on the X-Men run.

From the interviews I read he stated he didn't understand why the X-Men were hated and not accepted like the other super-heroes were. That, and the fans were driving him badshit crazy.

My readings of his run were incredibly sporadic. I still have to read Deadly Genesis (which I think I'll like). I skipped the space opera since, outside of Deathbird, I have an aversion to the Shi'ar. From what I read of extremists I liked, Bliss in particular was creepy. It's been a while, I'll have to see if my library has these in trades.

[darknessatnoon]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2md4787.jpg

[zulu]

Hated Bru's RAFOTSE. I didn't read anything he wrote after though.

[Seresecros]

Azure laid down some gut-busting TRUTH in this thread. We'll never see his like again.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Azure laid down some gut-busting TRUTH in this thread. We'll never see his like again.

He paid the price for his truth.

[zulu]

He paid the price for his truth.

What happened?

[Prodigy55]

Got banned for seducing people.

[darknessatnoon]

What happened?

Azure was a ginormous troll who was banned the second JAM was promoted to moderator.

[DevilishRogue]

I certainly don't think he's a "bad" or "awful" writer. From what I was able to get my hands on I enjoyed it. It really picked up the pace near the end which usually how it happens now. Besides, us Logurt/NC fans love him for the most part. That story was an extra bonus. I did like "the Extremists" and I loved the Kurt/Logan/Piotr road trip. And the couple of issues of "Shiar Empire" I picked up i rather enjoyed. i have to get all the parts to make a final opinion. I actually liked Sals art. It was different from his usual but I liked it. I don't judge writers on slow anymore and use it as a seprate argument. Thats the decompression in stories now and it wont go away anytime soon for any writer.

[IN-A-SYNCH]

Here is a thought, and i see no one has answered what happen to the other Human Sentinel that transformed from the nanotechs Bishop had spreaded, all of a sudden when X-23 went Ape Shit on the other one. It vanished haven't seen it since.
I guess its like the Russian in Sopranos never to be seen again.

Brubaker actually was a pretty good writer for this book, Rise and Fall was ehhhh but his run was actually good.

[darknessatnoon]

Here is a thought, and i see no one has answered what happen to the other Human Sentinel that transform all of a sudden when X-23 went Ape Shit on the other one.

Brubaker actually was a pretty good writer for this book, Rise and Fall was ehhhh but his run was actually good.

Apparently it showed up as Trask in Utopia.

[IN-A-SYNCH]

Apparently it showed up as Trask in Utopia.

I need Confirmation i dont think this is the same one.

[darknessatnoon]

I need Confirmation i dont think this is the same one.

You NEED confirmation? Why? Will your comic collection spontaneously combust?
Fraction confirmed it in an interview.

[skids]

Vulcan is lame, but really, Darwin, Petra and Sway were great ideas for characters. More on the latter two, since Darwin's like a not-Pam-Anderson version of her. That made it better.

And really, his Krakoa flashbacks were terrifying. It was like a good horror movie. Scared teens in over their head with a monster on the loose? Good stuff.

Plus, I liked the Extremists (except for the sewer sex). I thought he wrote a good Masque, and his Morlocks.

totally agree.

[jarrod]

I really liked DG and Extremists. RAFOTSE was kinda crap, but had a few brief moments. Bru was pretty easily the weak link in MX, and the following arc was just lolbad (even with Logurt to elevate it).

Overall, it was kind of a waste, like Austen but boring. On the plus side, at least Bendis backed out of co-writing like the original pitch. I'd say we avoided a bullet there.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Overall, it was kind of a waste, like Austen but boring. On the plus side, at least Bendis backed out of co-writing like the original pitch. I'd say we avoided a bullet there.

Wasn't aware of that. God, YES, did we dodge bullet on that one. Holly hell.

[Goggindowner]

I think Brubaker did a decent job. He didn't blow me away with anything, but it basically solid. Even Messiah Complex was somewhat enjoyable. Too bad it was left up to Fraction to finish this era off.

I really liked Rise and Fall a lot. But he did set up the franchise for the insane amounts of militarism that has run rampant since, so I fault him for that.

[Chase_Stein]

His run could have been better if Suzanne Chan was revealed to be alive instead of Darwin and if he wrote a Suzanne Chan: Noir arc.