Good Old Richmond, California [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

40footwolf

10-28-2009, 01:11 AM

That's fucked up.

Especially the fact that no one bothered to report it.I mean how can someone be that uncaring?
Not only did nobody bother to report it, some of them even joined in.

The Bay Area has a reputation for being classier than the rest of the country, but until shit like this gets cleaned up, HARD, we need to get off our fucking high horses.

dupont2005

10-28-2009, 01:22 AM

The Bay Area has a reputation for being classier than the rest of the country

maybe to people that live in the bay area. the rest of us just see this
http://gifnation.com/albums/funny/ghostriding.gif

40footwolf

10-28-2009, 01:26 AM

maybe to people that live in the bay area. the rest of us just see this
http://gifnation.com/albums/funny/ghostriding.gif

Yes, well...

...yes.

Cam63

10-28-2009, 02:33 AM

Bastards.

...That is all.

Venom Melendez

10-28-2009, 02:43 AM

Bastards.

...That is all.

That's what i love about you man. Quick and to the point.

Seriously, that pretty much sums it up.

Alex L

10-28-2009, 09:46 AM

Not only did nobody bother to report it, some of them even joined in.

The Bay Area has a reputation for being classier than the rest of the country, but until shit like this gets cleaned up, HARD, we need to get off our fucking high horses.

No we don't.

Plus, it's freakin' Richmond.

(Sorry that this is my sole contribution, but I've already vented my rage at work and don't have anything more to say about it.)

CutterMike

10-28-2009, 11:54 AM

"We do not have the ability to arrest people who witnessed the crime and did nothing," Gagan said. "The law can be very rigid. We don't have the authority to make an arrest."

...Does California not have an "Accessory to..." law?

fireSTRIKE!

10-28-2009, 12:26 PM

shitheads, each and every one of them, participants and spectators... every one of their asses should be thrown into the county slam and fined bigtime... fucking assholes...

bringthenoise

10-28-2009, 12:32 PM

...Does California not have an "Accessory to..." law?

Watching something happen is no the same as being an accessory to it. Doesn't excuse it though

dupont2005

10-28-2009, 03:12 PM

shitheads, each and every one of them, participants and spectators... every one of their asses should be thrown into the county slam and fined bigtime... fucking assholes...

i think the punishment for gangrape should be a little more severe than county time and a fine

40footwolf

10-28-2009, 06:34 PM

No we don't.

Plus, it's freakin' Richmond.

(Sorry that this is my sole contribution, but I've already vented my rage at work and don't have anything more to say about it.)

I should have said that WE think we do. At least in my area, anyway.

It was probably just a poorly thought out statement.

Still, the point is the same. Hard to take pride in being from the Bay Area when you hear about stuff like this.

dupont2005

10-28-2009, 07:05 PM

i just saw on the news, the witnesses will not be charged with any crime. people tell scary "what if" scenarios about good samaritans laws, like being jailed for not stopping an armed and dangerous fugitive from robbing a bank, and i have never heard of such a thing happening anywhere. this incident though, i believe is a good case for there being a good samaritan law. those who watched, and not only did nothing to stop it themselves, but didn't even run to get help from the security and police who were on campus nearby, and then even failed to dial 911 after the girls unconscious body was stuffed under a bleacher bench, they should be in jail right along side the rapists. i guess if the girl were a year younger they would be.

mikekerr3

10-28-2009, 07:20 PM

...Does California not have an "Accessory to..." law?

Unless they helped in most states the accessory to doesn't apply. But I don't see anything wrong with calling them all as witnesses and making sure their faces and addresses are on the front page of the newspaper repeatedly. And if someone who was known to be there says they were not throw their ass in jail for obstruction and or perjury

That JonoGuy

10-28-2009, 07:52 PM

I could understand if they noticed it happening and walked away and did not do anything, but if those people just stood there to watch I think they definitely should be prosecuted. It's one thing to not get involved for whatever reason, but to just stay and watch?..... I just don't get it.

dupont2005

10-28-2009, 07:55 PM

I could understand if they noticed it happening and walked away and did not do anything

i couldn't. how hard is it to call 9/11? police and security were on campus. probably right inside the building she was getting raped behind. how hard would it have been to just tug on their sleeve?

CYOTI

10-28-2009, 07:57 PM

Well guess civic virtue isn't there strong suite.

That JonoGuy

10-28-2009, 08:01 PM

i couldn't. how hard is it to call 9/11? police and security were on campus. probably right inside the building she was getting raped behind. how hard would it have been to just tug on their sleeve?

It's possibly since there were quite a few spectators that they assumed someone else called it in. I was more or less talking about getting directly involved to stop the rape. But yeah, calling the police would have been a good place to start.

mikekerr3

10-28-2009, 08:19 PM

It's possibly since there were quite a few spectators that they assumed someone else called it in. I was more or less talking about getting directly involved to stop the rape. But yeah, calling the police would have been a good place to start.

Any adult male who didn't try to physically stop this is simply both a coward and a waste of precious oxygen and should be legally barred form using the term Man to describe himself under penalty of fraud.

shrike

10-28-2009, 08:28 PM

Any adult male who didn't try to physically stop this is simply both a coward and a waste of precious oxygen and should be legally barred form using the term Man to describe himself under penalty of fraud.

Any adult man by himself who would have physically tried to stop this over calling the police more than likely would be dead or living with serious brain trauma.

Up to 10 men versus 1... not good odds.

mikekerr3

10-28-2009, 08:57 PM

Any adult man by himself who would have physically tried to stop this over calling the police more than likely would be dead or living with serious brain trauma.

Up to 10 men versus 1... not good odds.

What's the point of being healthy, oe even alive, if you can't look your wife, children or the guy in the mirror in the face? Seriously the shame of walking away would be worse than anything they could do.

40footwolf

10-28-2009, 09:27 PM

What's the point of being healthy, oe even alive, if you can't look your wife, children or the guy in the mirror in the face? Seriously the shame of walking away would be worse than anything they could do.

There wouldn't be shame in walking away and calling the police.

There IS shame in running in and getting the shit kicked out of you, because by debilitating yourself you're taking away a chance for the girl to get help from somebody calling the police.

fireSTRIKE!

10-29-2009, 08:47 AM

i think the punishment for gangrape should be a little more severe than county time and a fine

agreed, the severest possible penalties should be applied in this case... my above post was an initial stunned state-of-mind reaction... fuck those Richmond assholes as far as I'M concerned...

K-DoG7p7

10-29-2009, 09:24 AM

how come Youtubers are quicker out with news then the major news ...people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azBGGUGZWvI

Alex L

10-29-2009, 10:39 AM

What's the point of being healthy, oe even alive, if you can't look your wife, children or the guy in the mirror in the face? Seriously the shame of walking away would be worse than anything they could do.

Have you ever been in a situation like this?

It's easy to say, "Well, I know I would do xxxx" but when the time comes, in the end most of us aren't going to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

(The real lesson of the story here, being that if you're in trouble and there are a bunch of people watching, call someone out specifically to call 911. "Someone call for help" = no one calling. "You in the blue shirt, call 911" = guy in the blue shirt calls 911.)

how come Youtubers are quicker out with news then the major news ...people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azBGGUGZWvI

Fact-checking.

Publishing stories without verifying a single thing -- well, Youtubers and bloggers can get away with it but a news organization has more liability.

Sean Walsh

10-29-2009, 10:45 AM

A news item about this just ran on CNN, including a young girl calling from the town.

The part that bugged me was CNN's headline, which read:

Calf. town vents about gang rape
Students, teachers slam lack of security

.....the word "vents" kinda irked me. One would think "OUTRAGE" would work much better in here (I guess Fox News owns the rights to the word?) .... and it also insinuates that the people of the town are just content with yelling about it, rather than doing something.

Then again, people not doing something is sadly a big (and shameful) part of this story...

They also mentioned one of these pathetic "no snitching policies" involved in the school community there. That's a whole other rant right there, but anyone who folds "gang rape" into something that shouldn't be reported to police deserves bad disgusting and awful things to happen to them.

Things like this convince me that not being in God that much anymore is probably a good thing...

Sean Walsh

10-29-2009, 10:49 AM

CYOTI

10-29-2009, 11:01 AM

how come Youtubers are quicker out with news then the major news ...people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azBGGUGZWvI
The dominance of new media over old media.

Venom Melendez

10-29-2009, 11:26 AM

The dominance of new media over old media.

Not really.

Especially since he doesn't do any actual investigation and just reports what he saw in said old media.

mikekerr3

10-29-2009, 02:03 PM

Have you ever been in a situation like this?

It's easy to say, "Well, I know I would do xxxx" but when the time comes, in the end most of us aren't going to do it.

.

Yes I have, better odds but weapons were involved.

40footwolf

10-29-2009, 03:47 PM

....meanwhile here in Massachusetts, a female psychatrist was stabbed repeatedly by one of her patients, and an off-duty security guard saved her life and SHOT THE BASTARD DEAD.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/mother_of_secur.html

There's "the bystander effect," and then there's doing the right thing to save another human's life.

Take notes, Richmond (although I'm sure there will be many who criticize the guard).....

I remember hearing a story about how, a few months before September 11th, somebody was on a Southwest Airline flight and he either said that he had a bomb or threatened to open the door midflight, I don't remember which.

The point is that upon hearing this, the passengers on the flight got up and beat him to death.

As in, the would-be terrorist was dead when the plane reached it's destination.

Makes you wonder, makes you dream of a world where those 20 people, instead of gawking, beat the ever-loving shit out of the people involved in this.

Things like this gang-rape make me think that public death by flogging might be a good thing for these kids. Sending a message. "We will not tolerate this in a civilized society. If you choose to act like an animal than you shall be treated like an animal." And then a slow, agonizing, very public death to send it home.

This, to me, would be a good world.

Charles RB

10-29-2009, 05:11 PM

What's the point of being healthy, oe even alive, if you can't look your wife, children or the guy in the mirror in the face? Seriously the shame of walking away would be worse than anything they could do.

And then you're just a second person needing hospitalisation, and still nobody's called police or ambulance to help the girl. Nothing gets achieved except making things harder for the emergency services.

That's the reason why first-aiders are told in training to only help if it's safe, and otherwise just call 999.

Fact-checking.

Publishing stories without verifying a single thing -- well, Youtubers and bloggers can get away with it but a news organization has more liability.

This is why I get irritated when I see the occassional "twitter broke it before the MSM!" story - of course it fucking didn't, it takes ten seconds to tweet and there's no need to fact check or research.

dupont2005

10-29-2009, 08:14 PM

Have you ever been in a situation like this?

It's easy to say, "Well, I know I would do xxxx" but when the time comes, in the end most of us aren't going to do it.

well no, i have never watched a girl get gangraped. i can safely say i wouldn't have watched 10 guys brutalize her and stuff her motionless body under a bench without either doing anything or alerting anyone though

Lester C.

10-30-2009, 05:38 AM

I remember hearing a story about how, a few months before September 11th, somebody was on a Southwest Airline flight and he either said that he had a bomb or threatened to open the door midflight, I don't remember which.

The point is that upon hearing this, the passengers on the flight got up and beat him to death.

As in, the would-be terrorist was dead when the plane reached it's destination.

Makes you wonder, makes you dream of a world where those 20 people, instead of gawking, beat the ever-loving shit out of the people involved in this.

Things like this gang-rape make me think that public death by flogging might be a good thing for these kids. Sending a message. "We will not tolerate this in a civilized society. If you choose to act like an animal than you shall be treated like an animal." And then a slow, agonizing, very public death to send it home.

This, to me, would be a good world.

To be that would be vigilantism. If everyone practiced that for every wrong or preceaved wrong it's unleash total anarchy with everyone killing everyone in a very sick cycle of violence. This is why we have an independent institution of law to handle disputes.

What happened in California represents classic social psychology at its worse. The whole diffusion of identity and polarization of opinions that takes place in groups is downright scary.

Sean Walsh

10-30-2009, 06:11 AM

To be that would be vigilantism. If everyone practiced that for every wrong or preceaved wrong it's unleash total anarchy with everyone killing everyone in a very sick cycle of violence. This is why we have an independent institution of law to handle disputes.

But what if the independent institution of law decreed "you're guilty, death by public flogging" (which I think may've been 40footwolf's point)? Would you support that?

And wouldn't the ills of society change if the looming presence of vigilantism were more present? I'd think gang rapes would be 90-100% less likely if people knew "hey, these people could beat me to death for doing this blatantly awful thing and get away with it."

...........*snaps fingers* wait, that's right, law breakers like that are stupid and care nothing for their actions, which is why they gang rape and break laws in the first place.........oh well...

Charles RB

10-30-2009, 06:20 AM

And wouldn't the ills of society change if the looming presence of vigilantism were more present?

The only potential change would be that they're more careful and leave less evidence. Which is what happens with most rapes already.

Alex L

10-30-2009, 07:42 AM

Yes I have, better odds but weapons were involved.

Good on you. Seriously, because statistics and studies show us that most people won't do a damned thing.

40footwolf

10-30-2009, 02:21 PM

The only potential change would be that they're more careful and leave less evidence. Which is what happens with most rapes already.

You know that at least one of those dudes would've backed out if he realized public death by flogging would happen to him if he got caught, though.

Charles RB

10-30-2009, 02:44 PM

You know that at least one of those dudes would've backed out if he realized public death by flogging would happen to him if he got caught, though.

Alternatively, one of the others might've murdered the girl to make sure he didn't get caught. Which sometimes happens.

It's not really vigilantism or flogging we need here. What we need is to raise boys to not think gang rape is a jolly fun thing to watch, and to raise children to at least call for help instead of walking by.

7thangel

10-30-2009, 02:55 PM

this thread is veering off into fantasy land, where vigilantes, pure as the driven snow, reduce the crime rate by their just an informed actions.

to do that, you have to ignore the real history of 'vigilantism' in u.s. history, the wrongful convictions, especially due to police and/or prosecutorial misconduct, and human nature.

seeing how this is a comics board i'll say this...who watches the watchmen?

Venom Melendez

10-30-2009, 03:17 PM

40footwolf

10-30-2009, 11:57 PM

Alternatively, one of the others might've murdered the girl to make sure he didn't get caught. Which sometimes happens.

It's not really vigilantism or flogging we need here. What we need is to raise boys to not think gang rape is a jolly fun thing to watch, and to raise children to at least call for help instead of walking by.

But that's haaaaaaaard.

No, in a lot of ways I agree with you. All I know is that this pack of vermin isn't going to get what they deserve, and that makes my stomach hurt a little.

worstblogever

10-31-2009, 03:37 AM

Way too reminiscent of Kitty Genovese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese) for my taste. 45 years later, across the country, and we have this case, from teens.

This one... this one fucks with my head a bit too much. I'm not gonna go into it. But it strikes a goddamn nerve.

mikekerr3

10-31-2009, 09:44 AM

Good on you. Seriously, because statistics and studies show us that most people won't do a damned thing.

I think you will find that the statics are quite different in my profession:wink:

Alex L

11-01-2009, 08:03 AM

Since I have no idea what you do for a living, this is probably true.

FeminineMystique

11-01-2009, 08:14 AM

The people who stood and watched this are as bad, if not worse, than the worthless pieces of SHIT who did this to that girl. Please tell me they give people the chair in Richmond. :evilangry:

40footwolf

11-01-2009, 01:44 PM

The people who stood and watched this are as bad, if not worse, than the worthless pieces of SHIT who did this to that girl. Please tell me they give people the chair in Richmond. :evilangry:

Yeah, we do, but they're not gonna get it. They didn't kill anyone, they're probably not even going to get 10 years in the hole.

Still-and I've never wished this on ANYONE before-I hope those that were arrested take it in the can every damn day they're in there. And if one were to be shived? If one were to turn a blind eye to this, I do not think society at large would have a problem.

FeminineMystique

11-01-2009, 01:47 PM

Yeah, we do, but they're not gonna get it. They didn't kill anyone, they're probably not even going to get 10 years in the hole.

Well I meant for the people who actually carried out the assault, not the ones who watched it. But I wouldn't be surprised if all they got was a slap on the wrist either :mad:

The whole thing just makes me feel sick to my stomach. That there are people who would just stand and WATCH what happened to that girl...I seriously think there's something wrong with humanity sometimes. That there's some horrible sickness in us

Lester C.

11-01-2009, 01:51 PM

FeminineMystique

11-01-2009, 01:55 PM

As long as you are a bystander there is no law saying you have to render assistance to someone even if it's a simple as calling 911. I would have called 911 myself but you can't legally hold any of the bystanders accountable though I'm sure someone in the DA is going to try to get creative.

I'm sorry but people shouldn't need the law to tell them that if a woman is being GANG RAPED right in front of them they should call the police. Unless the people watching had just received lobotomies they have no excuse for not doing anything to help.

They deserve to be punished, even if it's not as severe as the people who commited the crime. They could have called the cops, they could have tried to stop it themselves. But they didn't. Sorry but there's nothing that will convince me their not scum.

Lester C.

11-01-2009, 02:14 PM

I'm sorry but people shouldn't need the law to tell them that if a woman is being GANG RAPED right in front of them they should call the police. Unless the people watching had just received lobotomies they have no excuse for not doing anything to help.

They deserve to be punished, even if it's not as severe as the people who commited the crime. They could have called the cops, they could have tried to stop it themselves. But they didn't. Sorry but there's nothing that will convince me their not scum.

I agree with you. They are scum of the worst order. Morally speaking I'd give them the same punishment as the rapist bastards. No question. But from a legal point of view if you see someone being drowned, murdered, etc you are under no obligation to help them.

They keep trying to pass laws to make it illegal not to report on things like domestic abuse, and in certain limited situations they have succeeded, but overall a person under no obligation to report crimes they witnesses.

For the record I'm saying what I think is going to happen to the witnesses not what I want to happen. What I want is for all of them to locked up but that's not going to happen.

FeminineMystique

11-01-2009, 02:20 PM

I agree with you. They are scum of the worst order. Morally speaking I'd give them the same punishment as the rapist bastards. No question. But from a legal point of view if you see someone being drowned, murdered, etc you are under no obligation to help them.

They keep trying to pass laws to make it illegal not to report on things like domestic abuse, and in certain limited situations they have succeeded, but overall a person under no obligation to report crimes they witnesses.

For the record I'm saying what I think is going to happen to the witnesses not what I want to happen. What I want is for all of them to locked up but that's not going to happen.

I know Les. While I tease you mercilessly I know you're a good guy, sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you of supporting the assholes who watched this whole sick thing take place.

And believe me, I know all about the law failing people like this poor girl. I guess we can just hope that the people who actually commited the crime get what's coming to them:mad:

Charles RB

11-02-2009, 03:20 PM

Vigil held by local religious leaders: (http://cbs5.com/localwire/22.0.html?type=bcn&item=RICHMOND-VIGIL--11-29)

This afternoon, a coalition of faith leaders from throughout the Bay Area will hold a prayer vigil outside the school.

"This is the faith community's way of demonstrating our love and support for the young lady as well as her family," said the Rev. Andre Shumake, president of the Richmond Improvement Association, who is organizing today's event along with the Oakland Baptist Ministers Union.

He said clergy from churches in Richmond, Oakland, San Francisco and Vallejo will participate.

"It's across denominational lines," Shumake said. "It's not just a Baptist or a Catholic event."

Shumake said the faith leaders will call for an increase in volunteers at campuses throughout the district and for the schools to teach about the concept of respect.

...

One thing that will help, Shumake said, is for parents to get involved in their kids' schools.