If DC were elevate a black hero among the "Big 5+", who would it be?

[Ikonic]

This should be interesting. If DC were to elevate a black superhero among the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash; who would it be? What hero would most likely be best served to get that boost from editorial? Sort of like the way Marvel keeps Black Panther and Cage in the forefront in the MU.

I'd have liked it to be J. Stewart but Hal is thee Green Lantern. So unless they alter John somehow, he can't be. Then I look at Black Lightning because he's been around the second longest out of the two and is still kickin'. They just need to define his powerset a whole lot better than what they have. What say you?

[dupersuper]

Honestly, I'd like to see them try it with Icon. He's got Superman level power, and now that his whole history has been reality-warped into the DCU, he has been around a few years.

[Zembo]

Black Lightning. He's got a unique powerset among the League, he's got broader name recognition than Icon (IMHO), and he has a funky costume. Pity he can't drop the "Black" part of his name, but ah well.

[Thok]

Being in the Big 5 is as much about TV/Film appearances as it is longevity and power level. You need something resembling name recognition among the general public.

Given that Static is one of the few DC characters to carry his own TV show, he's the one that has the best chance of being ascended. Steel and Vixen are also possibilities for their multimedia appearance (although Steel's role in Death and Rebirth of Superman likely is more relevant than Vixen's JLU appearances or Steel starring in a really bad movie.)

[Lemurion]

I'd go with Black Lightning myself.

Icon is a great character, but he's too close to Superman.

[dreyga2000]

At times like this I wish DCAU John Stewart was the DCOMICS John Stewart... He'd be perfect as most of the general public think he's the Green Lantern....

[carabas]

Isn't DC only licencing the Malibu characters rather than outright owning them? I think that would prevent them from being part of the Big 5 or howeever many the Big Ones are.

[Walter West]

Tyroc in his original outfit. :biggrin:

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

Isn't DC only licencing the Malibu characters rather than outright owning them? I think that would prevent them from being part of the Big 5 or howeever many the Big Ones are.

Malibu? Do you mean Milestone?

[Walter West]

All kidding aside about Tyroc, my choice would be Mr. Terrific. My only justification is that I like the character.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Mr. Terrific.

He's become a cornerstone of the modern JSA and Checkmate. A military/spy-style non-cosmic hero would fill in a void within the Big 5+.


Hell, JSA vs Kobra is practically a showcase on why he should be elevated.

[Freakzeek]

Mr. Terrfic, but if anybody actually has the chance it would be Static who held his own show solo for five seasons(a lifetime in television) & Defintely John Stewart since most of the general public still see's him as THE green lantern, even those who didn't watch the show due to WB promotion & Six flags theme parks with the JLU theme.

[ryerye17]

No one. Big Five is a concept related to history.

Supes/Bats/Wondy - continuous publication since 30's/40's

GL/Flash - continuous publication since 50's

[Forth World]

Martian Manhunter.

People starting to accept Superman is Jewish. Time to break down and admit what everyone already knows:

J'onzz was DC's first black superhero.

[Gavin G.]

I'm a great fan of Vixen, and it would seem DC is going to attempt to prop her up in the coming months via Justice League of America. I don't know if there will ever be a character who's elevated up to Trinity + Flash and Green Lantern status, though. Aquaman, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman, and Hawkgirl have all been on the cusp for years, in my opinion, yet they've never managed to really take a firm hold. I doubt any amount of push would give a black character in the DCU the type of notoriety they'd need to be considered a truly heavy hitter in terms of popularity. DC can say Vixen or Mr. Terrific are great all they want, but if the fans aren't there, it's sort of a moot point.

[Ikonic]

No one. Big Five is a concept related to history.

Supes/Bats/Wondy - continuous publication since 30's/40's

GL/Flash - continuous publication since 50's
This is not about publication history.

Martian Manhunter.

People starting to accept Superman is Jewish. Time to break down and admit what everyone already knows:

J'onzz was DC's first black superhero.
If only

[Freakzeek]

C'mon Dc you got Static

[Gavin G.]

C'mon Dc you got Static
Teen Titans is going to focus on Static in January. Hopefully it will sell abnormally well, and DC will feel monetarily motivated/compelled to give him his own series as a result thereafter.

[Thok]

Martian Manhunter.

People starting to accept Superman is Jewish. Time to break down and admit what everyone already knows:

J'onzz was DC's first black superhero.

That point of view makes his Oreo addiction a bit unfortunate. (I actually agree with that statement though; for example I consider Icon to more the Milestone version of J'onn than the Milestone version of Superman.)

[Electric i]

There was a black Green Lantern for awhile...what happened to him? I seem to recall he got replaced rather quickly by Guy Gardner, the man who proved it didn't take much to be a Green Lantern.

[Free-Man]

There was a black Green Lantern for awhile...what happened to him? I seem to recall he got replaced rather quickly by Guy Gardner, the man who proved it didn't take much to be a Green Lantern.

Not at all. Guy came first, then John, the black GL. He's still around and was a member of the Justice League up until a few months ago.

[carabas]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;9833176']Malibu? Do you mean Milestone?
Eh, yes. Of course.
Does DC actually own Static and Icon, or are they just renting them for the time being?

[Ikonic]

I'm a great fan of Vixen, and it would seem DC is going to attempt to prop her up in the coming months via Justice League of America. I don't know if there will ever be a character who's elevated up to Trinity + Flash and Green Lantern status, though. Aquaman, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman, and Hawkgirl have all been on the cusp for years, in my opinion, yet they've never managed to really take a firm hold. I doubt any amount of push would give a black character in the DCU the type of notoriety they'd need to be considered a truly heavy hitter in terms of popularity. DC can say Vixen or Mr. Terrific are great all they want, but if the fans aren't there, it's sort of a moot point.

Granted, but we're only talking about the focus and noteriety similar to Marvel's focus with Black Panther and Cage as a reference.

[Free-Man]

Eh, yes. Of course.
Does DC actually own Static and Icon, or are they just renting them for the time being?

They rent them. I wouldn't worry about his rights expiring or anything. If they think he's a viable character, they could easily renew him.

[Mister Blisterfists]

Steel. He should be DC's Iron Man.

[Gavin G.]

Granted, but we're only talking about the focus and noteriety similar to Marvel's focus with Black Panther and Cage as a reference.
I understand where you're coming from, then. For what it's worth, I enjoy reading about Vixen, Black Lightning, and Mr. Terrific all more than either Cage or Black Panther. Although to be fair, I tend to favor DC on the whole, anyway.

But Vixen and Cyborg look to be getting a push soon in JLA, and hopefully the same is in store for Static in Teen Titans. Michael Lane is also going to be at the forefront soon in the new Azrael ongoing, so it would at least appear DC is trying to give some of their black heroes more exposure.

The decision to green light two new Red Circle books, while Milestone doesn't get any is a puzzling one, however. The Shield is awesome so far, but I would've rather they relegated The Fly as its back-up, with the second Red Circle book dropped in favor of a Milestone, Icon and Hardware double-feature.

[4sake]

Static

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/629456-terti_3_22_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/terti_3_22/105-629456/)

or Vixen

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/544229-vxn_cv3_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/vxn_cv3/105-544229/)

or Amazing-Man

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18474/364390-106712-amazing-man_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/106712-amazing-man/105-364390/)

or Black Lightning

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/460061-black_lightning_matthew_clark01_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/black_lightning_matthew_clark01/105-460061/)

[Free-Man]

Static

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/629456-terti_3_22_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/terti_3_22/105-629456/)

or Vixen

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/544229-vxn_cv3_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/vxn_cv3/105-544229/)

or Amazing-Man

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18474/364390-106712-amazing-man_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/106712-amazing-man/105-364390/)

or Black Lightning

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/460061-black_lightning_matthew_clark01_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/black_lightning_matthew_clark01/105-460061/)

It's really a crime that Amazing man got booted off the JSA like that.

[Gavin G.]

It's really a crime that Amazing man got booted off the JSA like that.
Did he get booted? I'd forgotten that. He was pretty awesome when Johns first introduced him to the series, but like a lot of those characters he created/brought in, Amazing-Man sort of gradually drifted into the background, unfortunately.

[Free-Man]

Did he get booted? I'd forgotten that. He was pretty awesome when Johns first introduced him to the series, but like a lot of those characters he created/brought in, Amazing-Man sort of gradually drifted into the background, unfortunately.

I believe during the Black Adam storyline, he leaves the team offscreen and then someone mentions that he's gone to New Orleans to start his own superteam.

I hope someone does something with him, because if not, he'll likely end up like his cousin.

[Wilder Midnight]

I always felt that Mal Duncan should have maintained the identity of "the Guardian". I see the character as wearing a beefed up version of the exoskeleton that enhances his strength and gives him a force shield.

[Jaded Devil]

Cyborg. He's:

a) been published regularly since the 1980s, which is more than can be said for any other characters mentioned thus far.

b) highlighted in various media, ranging from Superfriends to Smallville to the Teen Titans cartoon.

c) currently being elevated in status, comics-wise, as he joins the JLA.

That's your guy.

[DetectiveDupin]

Black Lighting

[Freakzeek]

Cyborg. He's:

a) been published regularly since the 1980s, which is more than can be said for any other characters mentioned thus far.

b) highlighted in various media, ranging from Superfriends to Smallville to the Teen Titans cartoon.

c) currently being elevated in status, comics-wise, as he joins the JLA.

That's your guy.

hmmmm checkmate ^^^^ this is correct

[the Hornet]

No one. Big Five is a concept related to history.

Supes/Bats/Wondy - continuous publication since 30's/40's

GL/Flash - continuous publication since 50's

A new character, for the new generation, a fresh start.

[Ikonic]

Cyborg. He's:

a) been published regularly since the 1980s, which is more than can be said for any other characters mentioned thus far.

b) highlighted in various media, ranging from Superfriends to Smallville to the Teen Titans cartoon.

c) currently being elevated in status, comics-wise, as he joins the JLA.

That's your guy.

I slap forgot about him. He'd be great ONLY if they seperated him from the Titans for good. I think that the Titans stigma keeps him from being seen as a major player. He could be as awesome as War Machine has been while going through his "cyborg" phase. DC needs to let Cyborg grow up and he just might be the answer.

[PympMyQuinjet]

Static, with proper treatment, could easily become the DCU's Peter Parker. And i mean, he's Marvels most popular hero so...

[Jae Namkyoung]

Black Lightning, hands down.

[Freakzeek]

Black Lightning, hands down.

couldn't do it, everytime i think of black lightning i think of Black Vulcan

[Free-Man]

couldn't do it, everytime i think of black lightning i think of Black Vulcan

Oh come now, he wasn't THAT bad a character. He was pure electricity....in his pants.:tongue:

[InSovietRussia]

John Stewart, especially if he were to be written by whoever was behind the Justice League animated series... thanks to TV he's well known, he's a far more interesting character than Hal Jordan, and since the Green Lantern Corps are pretty much an ensemble cast anyhow, having more than one prominent lantern would be just fine.

[Free-Man]

How did everyone forget about Green Arrow II?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/51007-4003-66817-1-green-arrow_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3125/121898-4003-109662-1-green-arrow_super.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HDLEycm-LIE/RzIlOzO6oGI/AAAAAAAAEmM/9U5wx_UElHg/s400/Green+Arrow+Black+Canary+001-14.jpg

[Ikonic]

I guess I'm leaning more towards Static.

[FailureByDesign]

The big five have earned their place through decades of publication history...no hero regardless of race can match up to be honest.

[Ikonic]

The big five have earned their place through decades of publication history...no hero regardless of race can match up to be honest.

Again, this isn't about publication history. That can never be matched. It's like how Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, etc have been elevated to be "among" them. No more than that. Just about someone who can enter the upper echelon of DC hero's.

[ryerye17]

Again, this isn't about publication history. That can never be matched. It's like how Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, etc have been elevated to be "among" them. No more than that. Just about someone who can enter the upper echelon of DC hero's.

Oh, but Aquaman AND Martian Manhunter have been there for a looong time. Aquaman's GOLDEN AGE. Manhunter debuted a few years before/after GL Hal.

[Ikonic]

Oh, but Aquaman AND Martian Manhunter have been there for a looong time. Aquaman's GOLDEN AGE. Manhunter debuted a few years before/after GL Hal.

Am I speaking another language? The question is not about publication history. It's about which black hero most likely could be among DC's most notables if DC were to elevate one. I gave the example of being similar to Marvel's focus on Black Panther and Cage. Simple really.

[Greg Anderson]

Sadly I must say nothing like this will ever happen due to the way DC run their stories and events and how fans are. See over at Marvel, although they clearly have a main set of characters that continally pop up and are the top, they still seem to take more chances in trying to bring up the next big thing: for example Deadpool, Gambit, Logan at some point, Luke Cage, T'Challa, etc.

DC, when it comes to events, continue to use the MAIN characters ALL the time with hardly much leeway to push other lower-tier characters. It's always the main 3 or main 7 or whatever you call it. I can't imagine any "newer" character regardless of race getting a huge push to stand tall along with the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, J'onn, Hal, Flash, etc etc. DC had a good thing going with John Stewart as it seem he was getting very popular and starting to be viewed as THE GL of the DC-verse, but then they brought Hal back into the picture and have pushed the hell outta him, bringing John back to the bleachers with hardly any real attempt in giving him a push despite his once recent popularity.

I do think Static, though, has the potential to be the one black hero to be pushed up with the Big League, but it'll take a LONG time if DC even cares to showcase a "newer" character that hasn't been showcased like Supes or Bats.

Like some have mentioned before, I do see Martian Manhunter as a black man. When I first seen him in a comic, I imagined for some reason a black man portraying him, then in JLU he was voiced by a black man then played by a black man in Smallville. In The Batman, they "made him white" and also showcased Hal Jordan despite John being the knowable GL at the time. Oh well.

[Psavell2]

Well, I don't really know about who would be best served or who has the best chance, but my three favorite black superheroes are Steel, Black Lightning and John Stewart. Steel might be a little too similar to Superman, and John as previously stated is a Green Lantern but, at the moment, not the Green Lantern.

So if this was a vote... well actually I'd still want to vote for Steel, but I guess Black Lightning would be more his own man instead of part of one of the families(Superman, Green Lantern Corps, Flash...).

[Hawk_fan]

The only hero I could see that would have a chance is Black Lightning.

If DC gave her a chance I could see Skyrocket up there. She's a strong, intelligent woman with a somewhat unique power. Celia has that leadership quality about her like the Big 5.

[Lupek]

I'd like to see Black Lightning promoted or elevated in some way.

Brionze Tiger too. And while I don't read JSA, Alex Ross' (re)design of Amazing Man looks very cool.

I don't get the appeal of Steel. Kind of a bland codename and in all the images I've seen of him, his costume is sorta fugly. But to be fair, I haven't read anything with him in it (that I can think of).

[Freakzeek]

Black Vulcan for the win :p

http://superherouniverse.com/wallpaper/artists/mike/superfriends/Vulcan.jpg

[Eric D.]

i know he's from the animated series Super Friends , and has zero character development in comics, but I've always dug Black Vulcan.

Black Lightning should ascend.

[Freakzeek]

In all seriousiness Static has more of a chance than Black Lightning

[Jaded Devil]

In all seriousiness Static has more of a chance than Black Lightning

The problem though is that Static is being leased by DC vs. owned outright. If they were to elevate him to that level, only to have the Milestone creators turn down any kind of contract renewal, all the promotion would've been for nothing.

[AllisterH]

I don't think you can equate DC black heroes with marvel's black heroes.

1. They are non-legacy heroes in marvel. No matter how much of a push, John Stewart gets, he will never be "THE Green Lantern". Hell, it's doubtful he'll ever be known as anything other than "the non-zombie Black GL". Contrast this with say Luke Cage who has his OWN schtick "hero for hire" and thus doesn't ever get compared to a previous version.

2. Pedigree a.k.a Longevity helps. Plain and simple, comic book fans are older and gravitate to what they know about literally decades before. Mr. Terrific for example is one of DC's best realized characters. Doesn't change the fact that compared to Black Panther (a kirby - lee creation that punked Mr. Fantastic in his first appearance---that's all types of cred), he's a johnny come lately.

[Psavell2]

I don't get the appeal of Steel. Kind of a bland codename and in all the images I've seen of him, his costume is sorta fugly. But to be fair, I haven't read anything with him in it (that I can think of).

I can only speak for myself, but Steel won me over right away in Reign of The Supermen. Superman dies and this guy, a genius but nonetheless human, thinks "Superman's dead, but the world needs a Superman, so I guess I'll step up." Superman's return and all the years since never diminished my admiration for John Henry's courage and confidence in trying to fill his hero's boots.

[Free-Man]

I don't think you can equate DC black heroes with marvel's black heroes.

1. They are non-legacy heroes in marvel. No matter how much of a push, John Stewart gets, he will never be "THE Green Lantern". Hell, it's doubtful he'll ever be known as anything other than "the non-zombie Black GL". Contrast this with say Luke Cage who has his OWN schtick "hero for hire" and thus doesn't ever get compared to a previous version.

2. Pedigree a.k.a Longevity helps. Plain and simple, comic book fans are older and gravitate to what they know about literally decades before. Mr. Terrific for example is one of DC's best realized characters. Doesn't change the fact that compared to Black Panther (a kirby - lee creation that punked Mr. Fantastic in his first appearance---that's all types of cred), he's a johnny come lately.

And really, the only reason fans aren't as divided over Terrific as they are over characters like Jason Rusch or Jaime Reyes is that everyone who grew up with the original Terrific is probably dead.

[carabas]

1. They are non-legacy heroes in marvel. No matter how much of a push, John Stewart gets, he will never be "THE Green Lantern".The vast majority of Green Lantern fans think of John Steward not just THE Green Lantern, but have never even heard of those other three guys.

Of course, these fans do not actually read comics, they watch television.

[Ikonic]

Sadly I must say nothing like this will ever happen due to the way DC run their stories and events and how fans are. See over at Marvel, although they clearly have a main set of characters that continally pop up and are the top, they still seem to take more chances in trying to bring up the next big thing: for example Deadpool, Gambit, Logan at some point, Luke Cage, T'Challa, etc.

DC, when it comes to events, continue to use the MAIN characters ALL the time with hardly much leeway to push other lower-tier characters. It's always the main 3 or main 7 or whatever you call it. I can't imagine any "newer" character regardless of race getting a huge push to stand tall along with the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, J'onn, Hal, Flash, etc etc. DC had a good thing going with John Stewart as it seem he was getting very popular and starting to be viewed as THE GL of the DC-verse, but then they brought Hal back into the picture and have pushed the hell outta him, bringing John back to the bleachers with hardly any real attempt in giving him a push despite his once recent popularity.

Sadly I agree. I truly believe that a favorite of mine (Blue Marvel) over at Marvel will get elevated to a substantial position before the likes of Black Lightning and Cyborg whom have been around for quite some time.

[Werehunter]

The best choice to try would be Cyborg, he's been around a long time and is different enough from the rest of DC's top heroes that he wouldn't be a carbon copy plus he was in the Teen Titans cartoon which will help name recognition. Plus being part of one of DC's biggest line-ups of all times shouldn't hurt him too much. Since DC seems to be trying to build up their individual franchises one at a time, when they get around to the Titans he should be one to get an on-going like Power Girl and Maggog got for the JSA.

As has been stated, Static is a bad choice because if DC does manage to elevate him and push him properly the people who own him could refuse to renew the licensing agreement and take all the effort DC put into him and put out there own comic to reap the rewards. It sucks but it's a fact of life for that character.

Black Lightning is one that is possible but I don't see it happening. There's something about him that I just can't place, but he's never seemed to be one of the big guys to me. While I can see him as part of the top team as he was in Justice League, I don't see him carrying his own book anytime soon.

[Pól Rua]

Sadly I agree. I truly believe that a favorite of mine (Blue Marvel) over at Marvel will get elevated to a substantial position before the likes of Black Lightning and Cyborg whom have been around for quite some time.

Blue Marvel? Really?
A rip off-of Sentry who's a rip-off of Marvelman who's a rip-off of Captain Marvel who's (arguably) a rip-off of Superman?

[InSovietRussia]

Blue Marvel? Really?
A rip off-of Sentry who's a rip-off of Marvelman who's a rip-off of Captain Marvel who's (arguably) a rip-off of Superman?

Oh, please... Superman's not even remotely original. Leaps tall buildings in a single bound, more powerful than a locomotive? The guy's obviously a complete rip-off of President Teddy Roosevelt! :mad:

[Doc Goblin]

Black Lightning. Definitely Black Lightning. Brad Meltzer did a good job of starting this push in Justice League of America. But then DC quite lamely didn't follow up on that thread. He kind of became a background character. I couldn't believe that they made it even worse and actually put him back on the Outsiders. What a dumb, backwards move that was. Plus, Black Lightning: Year One came too little too late. Black Lightning is in a great position to hit in big in the DCU. He stands on his own as a character, and there are the makings of a Black Lightning Family with his daughters and Static.

Cyborg is a contender too, even if not quite as much as Black Lightning is. He stands on his own very well. I thought the role he had as the mentor/coach figure in Teen Titans did great things for elevating the character in the DCU. He went from just being one of the secondary Titans to being The Coach of DC's teen superheroes. That's a very strong role. It was another dumb move of DC's to remove him from that role to place him in a nostaglic Titans book. And then to give his former role to freaking Beast Boy. Terrible.

I also agree Mr. Terrific is another solid contender. Being a legacy character doesn't undermine him in any way. No offense to those who are Terry Sloane fans, but Michael Holt is THE Mr. Terrific. Sloane adds the depth of legacy to Holt's character.

There are a lot of other cool black characters, but there are elements to them that will probably always hold them back from the uppermost tier of characters. I love John Stewart, but he's buried in the ensemble cast that is Green Lantern. Steel's one of my favorite Superman characters, but he's exactly that... a Superman character. Static's status as a teen character kinda puts him out of the running to be one of the DCU's main heroes.

I don't think Firestorm is really a contender, but I would love it if writers would start to do a much stronger job of writing his character.

[kalorama]

double post

[kalorama]

This is not about publication history.

No, it's about history, period. DC can't just "elevate" a character to the level of Superman or Batman. They've achieved the status they have because of the accumulated mass of their popular, commercial, historical, iconographic status over several decades. That's not something that can just be bestowed on a character by executive order. If it was, DC would have done it long ago to any number of other characters.

Again, this isn't about publication history. That can never be matched. It's like how Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, etc have been elevated to be "among" them. No more than that. Just about someone who can enter the upper echelon of DC hero's.

Aquaman and Manhunter weren't "elevated" to anything. They were original founding members of the JLA just like the others. And, again, they have an association with the others that goes back decades, thus their status as being peers.

[dupersuper]

Oh, please... Superman's not even remotely original. Leaps tall buildings in a single bound, more powerful than a locomotive? The guy's obviously a complete rip-off of President Teddy Roosevelt! :mad:

Bwaaaahahahahaha!

[Ikonic]

No, it's about history, period. DC can't just "elevate" a character to the level of Superman or Batman. They've achieved the status they have because of the accumulated mass of their popular, commercial, historical, iconographic status over several decades. That's not something that can just be bestowed on a character by executive order. If it was, DC would have done it long ago to any number of other characters.



Aquaman and Manhunter weren't "elevated" to anything. They were original founding members of the JLA just like the others. And, again, they have an association with the others that goes back decades, thus their status as being peers.

One. More. Time.

No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman. I gave the example of how Marvel has elevated and focused on Black Panther and Cage to be 'among' their best heroes. Not be their best heroes. That DC can do.

[marvelprince]

No, it's about history, period. DC can't just "elevate" a character to the level of Superman or Batman. They've achieved the status they have because of the accumulated mass of their popular, commercial, historical, iconographic status over several decades. That's not something that can just be bestowed on a character by executive order. If it was, DC would have done it long ago to any number of other characters.



Aquaman and Manhunter weren't "elevated" to anything. They were original founding members of the JLA just like the others. And, again, they have an association with the others that goes back decades, thus their status as being peers.

This is true, but while you won't make a character iconic in the way Superman or Batman is (which by the way no one is saying that), you can push other minor characters. Marvel did this in the 80's with Wolverine and he's one of their most popular characters. They're doing it now with Deadpool and it seems to be working. Bendis bought Cage back from relative obscurity and in-universe he's seen as one of the "big guns" (btw why no Luke Cage ongoing yet).

Anyway, there are things that can be done to raise the profile of other DCU characters other than the main characters we always see used. I would normally be the first to accuse DC of not utilizing their second tier characters more but with Final Crisis we did use of Renee's Question, the introduction of the Super Young Team plus a new hero in the Tattoo Man and now in Blackest Night Mera seems to have been given a spotlight.

[Electric i]

Cyborg should be elevated:

1. He has the years of street cred from the Teen Titans.

2. His name doesn't have "Black" in front of it so that way white folks know not to confuse him with the "Regular" hero of that name. A joke adequately made on "Sealab 2021".

[InSovietRussia]

One. More. Time.

No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman. I gave the example of how Marvel has elevated and focused on Black Panther and Cage to be 'among' their best heroes. Not be their best heroes. That DC can do.

Wrong. A character can't be elevated by awkwardly shoe-horning him or her into existing stories or into an established book, upsetting the chemistry. However, if you get some good artists and entertaining writers on a book, maybe throw in a couple of mini-series here and there, certain characters can get quite popular over time. Look at what Kelly and Nicieza did for Deadpool. He's now very popular and arguably one of Marvel's most entertaining characters. (sorta like Spider-Man was in the old days, before he lost his sense of humor and got overly angsty)

[kalorama]

One. More. Time.

No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman.

Then why did you say they could:

This should be interesting. If DC were to elevate a black superhero among the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash; who would it be?

I gave the example of how Marvel has elevated and focused on Black Panther and Cage to be 'among' their best heroes. Not be their best heroes. That DC can do.

You can do the semantics dance all you like (seriously, you're going to argue "be" versus "be among"? Really?), but that doesn't change the fairly obvious intent behind your original post. And the examples of Cage and Panther have no relevance, because because (A) the so-called "elevation" really hasn't done much as Cage still doesn't have his own book and Panther's book still struggles sales wise and (B) None of Marvel's heroes (with the possible exception of Spider-Man) have anywhere near the level of pop culture iconography that Batman and Superman have.

[kalorama]

The upshot is that if DC really wants to "elevate" any of their Black characters (or non-Black ones, for that matter) the best way is to get quality writers and artists to use them in quality stories, not engage in some contrived attempt to forcibly confer some kind of status on them.

[Ikonic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IconicMarvel
One. More. Time.

No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman.

Then why did you say they could:

Quote:
Originally Posted by IconicMarvel
This should be interesting. If DC were to elevate a black superhero among the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash; who would it be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IconicMarvel
I gave the example of how Marvel has elevated and focused on Black Panther and Cage to be 'among' their best heroes. Not be their best heroes. That DC can do.

You can do the semantics dance all you like (seriously, you're going to argue "be" versus "be among"? Really?), but that doesn't change the fairly obvious intent behind your original post. And the examples of Cage and Panther have no relevance, because because (A) the so-called "elevation" really hasn't done much as Cage still doesn't have his own book and Panther's book still struggles sales wise and (B) None of Marvel's heroes (with the possible exception of Spider-Man) have anywhere near the level of pop culture iconography that Batman and Superman have.

Let me be clear...er.

1) "No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman." was in reply to someone who brought up publication history.

2) A black hero can be elevated to be among them the same way Cage is among Spiderman, Wolverine, and Captain America. He is not the icon they are but he is elevated in status by being a mainstay and being focused on within the midst of such iconic characters. As mentioned, someone like Cyborg being showcased in JLA when the so-called "Big 7" returns is what I'm referring to when I say being elevated. As if DC would usher him in to make it a "Big 8".

3) A) Cage has gotten a major push and is in the forefront at Marvel with yet another storyline focused on him coming up.
B) Black Panther is currently getting a powerboost and will be headlining a major story pitting him against Dr. Doom.

While that might be small potatoes to you, for two black characters getting that kind of care, that's monumental! And despite what you think my intent was, this was all I was talking about. I don't expect them to reach any high levels of popculture iconography, to catch up in publication history, or any other unreachable, unattainable height. Just some friggin' focus and elevation by editorial. If you want to complain or pick apart anything more that I've said, then forward it to my assistant.



Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

It looks like people see Cyborg as a frontrunner for the guy best suited to get a major push in DC to play with the big boys. He's an original character. His origin isn't dependent on any other hero. He's been fairly consistently published in one way or another. He's been in multiple TV shows. And... he looks cool. Works for me!

[DrewC]

Static could be DC's version of Spider-Man. They should let Dwayne McDuffie run with that character.

[Freakzeek]

Then why did you say they could:





You can do the semantics dance all you like (seriously, you're going to argue "be" versus "be among"? Really?), but that doesn't change the fairly obvious intent behind your original post. And the examples of Cage and Panther have no relevance, because because (A) the so-called "elevation" really hasn't done much as Cage still doesn't have his own book and Panther's book still struggles sales wise and (B) None of Marvel's heroes (with the possible exception of Spider-Man) have anywhere near the level of pop culture iconography that Batman and Superman have.

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/1255845156906.jpg

[Ikonic]

Lol! I hear you, man

[Jaded Devil]

I think the biggest problems with Mr. Terrific and Black Lightning, respectively, are that the name "Mr. Terrific" is just too damn goofy to be taken seriously by anyone outside of hardcore comic readers (and even then, just those who have an awareness of the JSA), while Black Lightning is always going to suffer from the stigma of his creator constantly complaining about the way the character is handled and his treatment at the hands of DC.

[kalorama]

Let me be clear...er.

1) "No character can EVER be elevated to the likes of Superman and Batman." was in reply to someone who brought up publication history.

2) A black hero can be elevated to be among them the same way Cage is among Spiderman, Wolverine, and Captain America. He is not the icon they are but he is elevated in status by being a mainstay and being focused on within the midst of such iconic characters. As mentioned, someone like Cyborg being showcased in JLA when the so-called "Big 7" returns is what I'm referring to when I say being elevated. As if DC would usher him in to make it a "Big 8".

3) A) Cage has gotten a major push and is in the forefront at Marvel with yet another storyline focused on him coming up.
B) Black Panther is currently getting a powerboost and will be headlining a major story pitting him against Dr. Doom.

While that might be small potatoes to you, for two black characters getting that kind of care, that's monumental! And despite what you think my intent was, this was all I was talking about. I don't expect them to reach any high levels of popculture iconography, to catch up in publication history, or any other unreachable, unattainable height. Just some friggin' focus and elevation by editorial. If you want to complain or pick apart anything more that I've said, then forward it to my assistant.

Dance, dance, dance.

Let's be very clear . . . you didn't simply say that the characters in question should simply have their profile and visibility elevated, period. If you had, then there'd be no issue to speak of. You said, quite explicitly and specifically, multiple times, that you wanted them elevated to occupy the same level of status as the most popular and well-known characters in DC's publishing portfolio. Those are two very different things. One implies simply giving them more face time and putting them out there. All of which is fine. But the other implies a specific target level of significance and status to shoot for and further implies that said status can be achieved through, basically, editorial decree. Doesn't work that way. What you originally said and what you are now claiming (retroactively) that you meant are clearly two very different things.

Adding Cage to the Avengers or Cyborg to the JLA isn't "elevating them among" anything. Does it increase their visibility and profile? Sure. But that is, quite simply, not the same thing as "elevating" them to the point where they occupy the same level of anything as Batman, Superman, Spier-Man, et al. If it is, then, by your own convoluted, tap dancing semantics, you would have no choice but to also conclude that the likes of Silverclaw, Living Lightning, Triathalon, Gypsy, Huntress, and Congorilla (!!!) were similarly "elevated" when they were added to those very same books. If that's all it took to be "elevated" to the level of major icons then what real meaning or value does said "elevation" really have?

[carabas]

Black Lightning is always going to suffer from the stigma of his creator constantly complaining about the way the character is handled and his treatment at the hands of DC.Wait, what? First I have heard of this. What are the sordid details?

[Freakzeek]

I think the biggest problems with Mr. Terrific and Black Lightning, respectively, are that the name "Mr. Terrific" is just too damn goofy to be taken seriously by anyone outside of hardcore comic readers (and even then, just those who have an awareness of the JSA), while Black Lightning is always going to suffer from the stigma of his creator constantly complaining about the way the character is handled and his treatment at the hands of DC.

How Is Mr.Terrific that different from Mr. Fantastic ?

[Freakzeek]

Dance, dance, dance.

Let's be very clear . . . you didn't simply say that the characters in question should simply have their profile and visibility elevated, period. If you had, then there'd be no issue to speak of. You said, quite explicitly and specifically, multiple times, that you wanted them elevated to occupy the same level of status as the most popular and well-known characters in DC's publishing portfolio. Those are two very different things. One implies simply giving them more face time and putting them out there. All of which is fine. But the other implies a specific target level of significance and status to shoot for and further implies that said status can be achieved through, basically, editorial decree. Doesn't work that way. What you originally said and what you are now claiming (retroactively) that you meant are clearly two very different things.

Adding Cage to the Avengers or Cyborg to the JLA isn't "elevating them among" anything. Does it increase their visibility and profile? Sure. But that is, quite simply, not the same thing as "elevating" them to the point where they occupy the same level of anything as Batman, Superman, Spier-Man, et al. If it is, then, by your own convoluted, tap dancing semantics, you would have no choice but to also conclude that the likes of Silverclaw, Living Lightning, Triathalon, Gypsy, Huntress, and Congorilla (!!!) were similarly "elevated" when they were added to those very same books. If that's all it took to be "elevated" to the level of major icons then what real meaning or value does said "elevation" really have?

I think it's pretty elevating that this guy has been the leader of the main avengers book for what five , six years now?


http://elmcitytree.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/luke-cage.jpg

[Inactiveman]

Black Condor.

[Avenger08]

Black Condor.

Isnt that a white dude?

Anyway, if Mr. Terrific comes back (which he will), him.

[Ikonic]

Dance, dance, dance.

Let's be very clear . . . you didn't simply say that the characters in question should simply have their profile and visibility elevated, period. If you had, then there'd be no issue to speak of.

Adding Cage to the Avengers or Cyborg to the JLA isn't "elevating them among" anything. Does it increase their visibility and profile? Sure. But that is, quite simply, not the same thing as "elevating" them to the point where they occupy the same level of anything as Batman, Superman, Spier-Man, et al.

I made it clear when I stated: Sort of like the way Marvel keeps Black Panther and Cage in the forefront in the MU. If that was lost on you, then that's your fault. Nobody else seems to share your confusion.

And adding Cage as the leader of the Avengers for as long as he has been has elevated him by increasing visibility and profile. Cage is seen as a hero in his own right among the likes of Wolverine, Spiderman, and Captain America in Avengers. We all know that he hasn't reached their status to the real world. Nobody is that jaded. We're well aware that these are still black characters and for them to be such and receive such focus is huge. Also, adding Cyborg alone isn't anything special. But making him a focus when he's surrounded by Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern is.