Brandon Routh: What's the Consensus? [Archive]

Will.S

10-17-2009, 05:34 PM

I thought he was a good Superman and I'd certainly be happy to see him return.
Same here.

I don't think he did anything necessarily wrong with the role, he did use a lot of Reeve's mannerisms and such but it wasn't in a bad way. Brandon Routh did look a bit younger than I would have liked in some scenes but at this point I think he should be fine.

The only problem that I can think of is that Brandon should have been more emotive as Superman and should have been given more action scenes that make him look bad ass. He seemed far too passive at times and Singer downplayed his effectiveness through the use of symbolism with the messiah stuff such as when he was beat up by thugs under the Kryptonite but I think both are more of a Singer related problem.
I certainly would be more than happy to see him in a Superman movie again.

protege

10-17-2009, 07:18 PM

I recently saw the movie on FX- i don't think he really looked the part, but he gave a decent performance.

Billium 3

10-17-2009, 07:30 PM

I'm all for a reboot. The only thing I would keep would be Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor.

Infernorhythm

10-17-2009, 09:04 PM

I love Superman Returns, and I especially loved Routh. Great performance, both as Clark and as Superman.

Jake V

10-17-2009, 09:06 PM

I felt he was too young, too skinny, and too pretty.

He played a hell of a Clark Kent though.

twilight

10-17-2009, 10:19 PM

He played a hell of a Clark Kent though.

Beat me to it.

Reminds me of how I feel about Tobey Maguire in the Spider-Man films,terrible as the hero,great as the alterego.

-Twi

Mister Blisterfists

10-17-2009, 11:49 PM

WTF "He was too young"?

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

Christopher Reeve is the youngest actor to play Superman. He was 24!

Jake V

10-18-2009, 12:46 AM

WTF "He was too young"?

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

Christopher Reeve is the youngest actor to play Superman. He was 24!

Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard it before. He looked too young.

Mat001

10-18-2009, 02:36 PM

Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard it before. He looked too young.

So that he wouldn't age too badly over the course of ten years, for three films. Reeve was starting to show his age in the third film and more so by the fourth film. Bale has carried his age well so far. Jackman is looking his age in the solo film, even though he was younger looking ten years ago in the original "X-men" film".

carabas

10-18-2009, 02:41 PM

He did a fair job, but considering the script he was given, he never really had a chance to win over the fans.

T Hedge Coke

10-18-2009, 02:51 PM

I felt he was too young, too skinny, and too pretty.

Lex Luthor, is that you? :wink:

I think he was fine, and could have been quite a bit better if it weren't for the weird bleeding-Christ atmo and weak script. I just assumed he didn't age because he's Superman, while Kate Bosworth's Lois didn't age because, um, amnesia kisses make you immortal? The whole thing is flawed, but Routh's casting was not one of those flaws. Superman can't be too good looking or youthful, and the skinny thing... it's not like his strength could actually plausibly come from bulky Ed McGuinness muscles.

OBrianTallent

10-18-2009, 07:35 PM

md62

10-18-2009, 07:45 PM

I liked Routh as Clark/Superman. I also thought Spacey was great as Luthor. Superman Returns could have been a great movie if certain aspects had been edited out. I did not like the super-son story. I wasn't crazy about Bosworth as Lois.

I would like Routh to stay on as Superman. I think they should adapt Johns' Brainiac story for the next movie. I also think that if DC wants to compete with Marvel in the movies they need to have a great Superman movie & build a Green Lantern Trilogy.

theflyingfrogunderdog

10-18-2009, 08:28 PM

The definitive Superman will always be George Reeves.

And "truth, justice and the American way" will always be connected with the character.

Those are Superman's definitive roots that can't be erased by time.

Kai "the spy"

10-18-2009, 09:26 PM

To give those people saying that he looked too young in SR to be Superman again (what a clever argument, btw, since actors who played the character once obviously can't age, right?), I'd like to say that not only have it been four years since production, but Routh looking too young in SR is mostly because of the make-up and lighting.

To give everyone who didn't keep up with him after SR some idea, here are some more recent pictures of him:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2215/routh1.jpghttp://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7905/340xwl.jpghttp://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6227/83966122.jpg
Not that skinny, either, huh?!

I'd really love to see Routh back in the role. I really can't see WB coming up with someone as good as him, let alone someone better.

Retro315

10-18-2009, 10:48 PM

My thoughts are ... he was a good Superman, but like ... in five years from now, he'll be a BETTER Superman. Unless they're rebooting (which they didn't, for Returns, obviously) Superman didn't need to be that young.

Still, I think with a meatier part and a few years on him, he would've been iconic.

The Chief5425

10-19-2009, 08:02 AM

I felt he was too young, too skinny, and too pretty.

Agreed. Get somebody with a little testosterone (though, as others have pointed out, he was hampered by a script that made him into an emo stalker).

Ceridwen

10-19-2009, 08:37 AM

I thought did a good job, though I also seem to be one of the few people who thought Superman Returns was absolutely beautiful.

That said, I'm not sure I would want him back unless the next movie is a sequel to his Superman. All signs point to them doing a reboot of the franchise with the next film, and I think I'd want the new director to find an actor specific to his or her vision of Superman.

eggie

10-19-2009, 08:49 AM

Routh should stay!! I think he did a really good job as both Clark Kent and as Superman. I liked his build...I don't think Superman needs to be built like Ah-nold since his power doesn't come from his muscles. Look at the comics, I love Ed McGuinness art but hated his Superman - too many muscles!!! I think Gary Frank, whose are I also love, draws a perfect Superman, he draws Supes a little leaner and that's what I want in the movies and i think that is what Routh provided.

Ziggy Stardust

10-19-2009, 11:04 AM

Someone else.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

10-19-2009, 06:58 PM

As with everything else in the film, I didn't like him at first.

But on re-watch, once the expectations of Singer doing for Superman what he did for X-Men were washed away, I realised he was one of the better parts of the film.
In fact, I realsied that most of the film was pretty darn good - except for the script, and the absence of a villain to fight (an actual villain to fight - not Luthor to outsmart, or an island to lift, an actual villain).
The action set pieces and character moments were pretty good.

rocky123

10-20-2009, 10:57 AM

I thought Routh did a good job with what he had to work with, you can't hold the shitty script against him. His Clark was excellent and his Superman was fine. I don't really get the muscle comments though. For the most part (not for everyone, I know) most people think Christopher Reeve is the best Superman yet to me Routh looked more muscular than Chris did.

jdavidweter

10-20-2009, 08:28 PM

I really enjoyed watching Routh on the screen, but only because he mimicked Christopher Reeve so well. Routh's Superman didn't stand on it's own two legs, however his Clark Kent was more fleshed out than Christopher Reeve's enjoyably over the top portrayal.

The Scarlet Sapien

10-24-2009, 08:18 AM

I think he did really well given the crap he had to work with and the fact the script kind of pigeon hold him into heavily mimicking Reeves.
I agree. I'd rate him as better as mediocre. But it really didn't pop for me.

meathead320

10-24-2009, 11:46 AM

I am not a Routh fan.

I cannot see Superman who I look at him, hear his voice, or see his body language. Just not Superman to me.

BrightestDay

10-24-2009, 12:36 PM

I think that Routh might have actually done really well had he got to be Superman and Clark Kent rather than Chris Reeves. Singer was much more interested in doing a Reeves Superman and that was what hurt the actor (and the movie along with a host of other bad ideas in it.)
I think that if Routh were given the opportunity to actually play the character, he might not be half bad.

Agreed. However, it's pretty much a moot point now, seeing as how if/when they ever get around to making another Superman movie it'll most likely (if they're smart anyway) be a reboot. Not to mention that by that point, Routh will be too old for the part.

Mr. Holmes

10-24-2009, 06:49 PM

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/giantrollingeyes.gif

He wasn't that bad, but he only has physical facial features that resemble Reeve, he isn't nearly as bulky as he needs to be.

I would rather have him be Mon-El in Smallville or something.

Hoss

10-25-2009, 07:39 AM

Welling forever

bongoes

10-25-2009, 07:22 PM

I would rather have him be Mon-El in Smallville or something.

I don't mean to derail the thread but why have they not had Mon-EL on Smallville yet? It's such a simple one episode story! They don't even have to do anything big with it!

Routh is okay. He's just not Superman to me.

dumbstruck

10-26-2009, 08:17 AM

I thought Superman Returns was a great movie. A more intellectual story that the fight-a-minute fare from Marvel treats us too. Routh was a good Superman, not a Superman.

Captain Smith

11-01-2009, 04:02 PM

Mat001

11-01-2009, 04:10 PM

I don't mean to derail the thread but why have they not had Mon-EL on Smallville yet? It's such a simple one episode story! They don't even have to do anything big with it!

They just haven't had the chance. Though the showrunners have said that they're going to introduce another DCU character this season or next if it is renewed. They're just working out the rights issues. Might be him.

Alan2099

11-01-2009, 04:23 PM

Routh's problem was with the script and the costume far more than it was with his acting.

gwydion

11-01-2009, 05:42 PM

I thought Routh did well enough, and looked the part fairly well. The problems were the script and the rest of the casting. I would probably keep him and Langela around if there's ever another Superman movie, and him for the cameo.

BrightestDay

11-03-2009, 10:57 PM

Chris and Brandon didn't really have the physicality for a Supes. Reeve did better at the role, though.

It would be find to an actor in the shape of a standard Supes - look at a Perez cover and then Brandon. The latter looks like an Abercombie and Fitch laddy.

I don't really buy into the idea that Superman needs to look like an NFL linebacker. I think that's more a concern for someone who's playing Batman to be honest. I mean, Superman's powers come from the yellow sun, not his muscles. Theoretically, he'd have the same strengths if he was built like Johnny Depp or some other twig boy.

I get that as Superman he should be physically impressive as opposed to the average joe on the street, but if Hackman and Spacey are believable Luthors (and I think they are), then there's nothing wrong with Chris or Brandon's physiques.

Mr Prince

11-04-2009, 12:19 AM

I fault the story and not the principal actors. There was a lot going on there that didn't work for me and some character portrayals that needed to be refreshed.

jka12002

11-04-2009, 12:47 AM

Both Christopher Reeve and Brandon sucked in the role. Superman is supposed to be buff. Not skinny and dinky.

Kasper Cole

11-04-2009, 12:57 AM

Routh was actually fairly decent considering he had the script, director, and costume working against him.

theflyingfrogunderdog

11-04-2009, 12:58 AM

Do we really want a Christopher Reeve clone playing Superman? Routh even tried to talk like Reeve in the movie. When an actor is acting like an actor, that can never be a good thing. I voted someone else.

Superman is all about truth, justice and the American way. Until Hollywood realizes that, they're destined to make the same mistake of failing to redefine an already defined, iconic character. You can't erase a half century of character definition.

dancj

11-27-2009, 06:14 AM

Routh was fine, but the whole franchise needs a reboot - and I don't think you could do that convincingly if you keep the same person playing him (though Judy Dench is still in James Bond)

Action Ace

11-27-2009, 06:27 PM

Just skip the middle man and use a CGI Christopher Reeve.

Watching Superman Returns I thought James Marsden had a better chance of pulling off Superman despite not being tall enough or looking like him.

Mr. Holmes

11-29-2009, 04:14 PM

I am surprised people on this forum actually favor him. Thank God this board is not an indicator of the real public consensus

He was not a bad actor - but he needed to be bulky enough in order for people to take him seriously as Superman. Plus he was acting as Chris Reeve's Superman, not his own interpretation.

They should just reboot and get an entirely different cast. In fact, the main problem with Superman Returns is the fact that you had a copy cat Reeve and a copy cat Hackman, the latter who was just shameful. Lois Lane was just bad. And Jimmy should probably be younger.

They should just get the Smallville cast to do a Superman movie. (That's right Smallville haters, come flame me)

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/Tom%20Welling%20Superman.jpg

dancj

11-30-2009, 05:36 AM

They should just reboot and get an entirely different cast. In fact, the main problem with Superman Returns is the fact that you had a copy cat Reeve and a copy cat Hackman, the latter who was just shameful.
Shameful? I thought Kevin Spacey did a spot on impersonation of Hackman's Luthor.

The annoying thing though is that both Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey are perfect castings for Lex Luthor, but the script called for them to play this crappy comic relief version of the character rather than a proper menacing version that either could have pulled of with style.

thehod

11-30-2009, 06:52 AM

I rather liked Routh as Superman. I particularly liked the fact that he was more softly spoken as Superman than he was as Clark, which is a nice twist on the expectations that you'd expect out of either character.

I don't see Superman as an increadibly defined muscular character either. Sure he's big, but more rugby player big rather than body builder big. (If anyone remembers New Zealand rugby player Jonah Lomu - he's that sort of build)

Tim Sale's version of Superman is my prefered look.

Addams

11-30-2009, 06:59 AM

They should just get the Smallville cast to do a Superman movie

Don't you think fans have suffered enough as it is ?

A bit of compassion for god's sake.

Karlfernswich

11-30-2009, 02:36 PM

Originally i was against Routh staying on as Supes but now realised certain parts of the writhing were bad for the film and now i'd be happy if he stayed on.

Mr. Holmes

11-30-2009, 09:28 PM

No just some people who don't like it. Even Birthright and Secret Origins have taken stuff from Smallville. The show has its downs, but it's overall done more good for fans.

Murrocko

11-30-2009, 10:13 PM

I think it depends. If its a reboot get someone new. A sequel then I think Routh is owed a second chance to really show he's more than capable for this role.

Kai "the spy"

12-01-2009, 10:18 AM

No just some people who don't like it.

I actually like the show. Wouldn't buy all those DVD sets if I didn't. Still, I don't want a Superman movie based on SV and I certainly don't want Tom Welling as the next movie's Superman.

Even Birthright and Secret Origins have taken stuff from Smallville.

Grant you SO, but with Geoff Johns that's kind of a given.
But give me one single element that Birthright took from SV. It had similar source material, but Waid worked completely without any SV references.

Mat001

12-01-2009, 12:20 PM

-A Lionel Luthor who looked like John Glover. Hell, there was no Lionel Luthor. His father had a different first name and appearence. Granted this was explained in a Secret Files issue, but it wasn't mentioned in the main series.

-Luthor mansion in Smallville.

-Lex didn't want to save Lionel which is similar to the end of the first season.

-Jonathan Kent not wanting Clark to embrace his Kryptonian heritage and showing resistance to the idea of Clark going public, when most versions he had no problem with it.

-Jonathan and Martha looking like John Schneider (sp) and Annette O'Toole. Even being younger like them.

-Clark not wanting to help people before changing his mind and doing so.

Nolans Batman

12-01-2009, 08:15 PM

I rather liked Routh as Superman. I particularly liked the fact that he was more softly spoken as Superman than he was as Clark, which is a nice twist on the expectations that you'd expect out of either character.

Really? I just took that as a sign that neither Routh nor his director really understood the character at all.

Routh's pretty I guess, in a girlish way, and that's obviously why Singer hired him.
Beyond that, he can't act worth a damn and just lacks the gravitas and on-screen presence to convincingly portray a character like Superman.

Hopefully, the next time they make a Superman movie they'll get a real actor with real muscles and real presence to play the Man of Steel.

thehod

12-01-2009, 10:45 PM

Really? I just took that as a sign that neither Routh nor his director really understood the character at all.

On the contrary, I thought it showed a perfect understanding of the sort of person Superman is. When he rescues the plane he doesn't need to be authorative and commanding. What he is is concerned for the wellbeing and safety of the people he has just saved. So rather than the sterotypical "All in a days work, citizan. Now I must FLY!!" tone that we expect from a caped superhero in those circumstances, his voice in soft, comforting. He shows geniune concern for the people he has just saved. He is putting them at ease.

I thought that worked superbly.

Other elements of the movie, not so much. But the whole of that set piece really impressed me.

Kai "the spy"

12-02-2009, 10:33 AM

-A Lionel Luthor who looked like John Glover. Hell, there was no Lionel Luthor. His father had a different first name and appearence. Granted this was explained in a Secret Files issue, but it wasn't mentioned in the main series.

You know, I don't remember any mention of Lex's father's name in the main series, and I've read it recently. I even just went through the issue Lex's father actually appears in (two panels, by the way), and I couldn't find it either. As for the looks, he's got long (combed!)hair and a beard, that's it. He looks actually like a slack old was-a-hippie-once, not very Lionel-like.

-Luthor mansion in Smallville.

You mean, like he had in the old Superboy comics?

-Lex didn't want to save Lionel which is similar to the end of the first season.

Now, you're really constructing something. Lex just got burned. And with the personality of his and the rant he starts on Smallville people, it would have been odd for him to care about his father, who himself didn't care for Lex (as previously stated in the series).

-Jonathan Kent not wanting Clark to embrace his Kryptonian heritage and showing resistance to the idea of Clark going public, when most versions he had no problem with it.

On a superficial level, there's a similarity. Going for reasons and how it's handled in the story, they're completely different. In SV, Jonathan was afraid for Clark's safety, while in Birthright, Jonathan feared his son to alienate himself from him. He also finally gets around and by the end of issue 3 supports Clark in going public.

-Jonathan and Martha looking like John Schneider (sp) and Annette O'Toole. Even being younger like them.

Okay, that one I grant you, there are a few panels where there actually is some resemblance. The "being younger" argument I just cannot count for in an origin tale. It was actually an error of most of the former interpretations to show Jonathan and Martha as if they were always sixty years old.

-Clark not wanting to help people before changing his mind and doing so.

In Birthright, Clark always wanted to help people. There was no change of mind there. He just realized that he could help people better if he went public, and that's kinda an essential point in an origin tale.

Mat001

12-02-2009, 12:00 PM

You know, I don't remember any mention of Lex's father's name in the main series, and I've read it recently. I even just went through the issue Lex's father actually appears in (two panels, by the way), and I couldn't find it either. As for the looks, he's got long (combed!)hair and a beard, that's it. He looks actually like a slack old was-a-hippie-once, not very Lionel-like.

The name was added in by Waid in the Secret Files issue. And as to the appearence, that's how Glover looked in the first three seasons and about season seven.

http://baysideauctions.com/smallville/imageseason7/Lionel_Luthor.jpg

You mean, like he had in the old Superboy comics?

Never read all of those.

Now, you're really constructing something. Lex just got burned. And with the personality of his and the rant he starts on Smallville people, it would have been odd for him to care about his father, who himself didn't care for Lex (as previously stated in the series).

That's the point. Lex in the show didn't care for his father after he lost his hair as a boy. And he hated him more and more as time went on. The only reason he saved him in season two was due to the fact that Lionel's death is Lex's final step into being evil. Which didn't happen until season seven. Since they weren't going to drag this out like a television show, it happens in a much shorter time span. But many fans and critics noticed a similarity.

On a superficial level, there's a similarity. Going for reasons and how it's handled in the story, they're completely different. In SV, Jonathan was afraid for Clark's safety, while in Birthright, Jonathan feared his son to alienate himself from him. He also finally gets around and by the end of issue 3 supports Clark in going public.

Yes, but the concepts are the same even if the executions and driving forces are different. Again, people spotted them right off.

Okay, that one I grant you, there are a few panels where there actually is some resemblance. The "being younger" argument I just cannot count for in an origin tale. It was actually an error of most of the former interpretations to show Jonathan and Martha as if they were always sixty years old.

It wasn't an error. It was intentional. In MOS, they were young when they found Clark and old by the time he became Superman. Here, he's Superman and they're still fairly young. The resemblence carried over until "Escape From Bizarro's World". Renato Guedes made the Kents look like the actors in the show. Same when he drew Lionel in the Secret Files issue.

Nolans Batman

12-02-2009, 02:31 PM

On the contrary, I thought it showed a perfect understanding of the sort of person Superman is. When he rescues the plane he doesn't need to be authorative and commanding. What he is is concerned for the wellbeing and safety of the people he has just saved. So rather than the sterotypical "All in a days work, citizan. Now I must FLY!!" tone that we expect from a caped superhero in those circumstances, his voice in soft, comforting. He shows geniune concern for the people he has just saved. He is putting them at ease.

I thought that worked superbly.

The only person he showed any kind of concern for was Lois. Everybody else got that forced and silly speech from Superman 1. And then after that he stood around basking in the praise like some kind of egomaniac.

Just all wrong.

Nolans Batman

12-02-2009, 02:38 PM

Was I the only one annoyed by Routh's helmet hair in the movie?

http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/files/2009/06/brandon-routh.jpg

You'd think they would get that much right.

Damiean Dark

12-02-2009, 04:07 PM

I liked Routh, as someone said above his acting after the airplane save was great, but i didnt really dig his reeve-clark kent impression it was amusing but was far to similer to something only reeve could pull off. Dean Cain still pulls of the best post reeve kent for me he was geeky but in his own way.

I say bring Routh back he was good especially in the action scenes he handled the use of powers (flight,laser vision ect) in conjunction with the CGI effects superbly and emotional scenes like wanting to still go back after Luthor after being stabbed with Krptonite and when he lifts the kypton rock island while severly injured you really felt he was superman. but unfortunately we all can admit, i think, he had a pretty average movie behind him.

eggie

12-02-2009, 04:27 PM

I enjoyed Routh as Superman and hope he gets to continue playing the part in the next movie, whatever and whenever that may be.

thehod

12-02-2009, 11:30 PM

The only person he showed any kind of concern for was Lois. Everybody else got that forced and silly speech from Superman 1. And then after that he stood around basking in the praise like some kind of egomaniac.

Just all wrong.

Different strokes I suppose.

Kai "the spy"

12-03-2009, 12:42 AM

The name was added in by Waid in the Secret Files issue. And as to the appearence, that's how Glover looked in the first three seasons and about season seven.

http://baysideauctions.com/smallville/imageseason7/Lionel_Luthor.jpg

I know how Glover looked. I still don't think that Waid intentionally told the artists to draw Lex's father like Glover on SV. The characterization is much too different. And for the name, you previously dismissed the Secret Files background on the issue that Lex's father is not really Lex's father but a payed actor. With taking the name from the Secret Files, you contradicted your own rules.

Never read all of those.

Well, if you did, you'd find far less SV references and far more Superboy references in Birthright. Like the lab accident causing Lex to lose his hair.

That's the point. Lex in the show didn't care for his father after he lost his hair as a boy. And he hated him more and more as time went on. The only reason he saved him in season two was due to the fact that Lionel's death is Lex's final step into being evil. Which didn't happen until season seven. Since they weren't going to drag this out like a television show, it happens in a much shorter time span. But many fans and critics noticed a similarity.

So, because it is the expected action (or lack of it) of the character, it's a reference to SV? Doesn't really make sense to me. In the season one finale of SV, Lex didn't help his father, because he didn't like him. In Birthright he didn't save him, because he was occupied with his rage over Smallville. To pass that as a SV reference is really stretching it.

Yes, but the concepts are the same even if the executions and driving forces are different. Again, people spotted them right off.

Seriously, WTF? I guess the duel in A Fistful of Dollars is a reference to the duel in High Noon. I mean, the executions and driving forces are different, but the concepts are the same, right?

It wasn't an error. It was intentional. In MOS, they were young when they found Clark and old by the time he became Superman. Here, he's Superman and they're still fairly young. The resemblence carried over until "Escape From Bizarro's World". Renato Guedes made the Kents look like the actors in the show. Same when he drew Lionel in the Secret Files issue.

As for the characters looking like the actors, I'd guess that was an editorial choice, since it carried over to the regular titles.

And that's nothing out of the ordinary, really. Back in the 90s, the comics' Martha was redesigned to look more like K Callan from Lois & Clark, just as some of the other characters were redesigned to resemble their tv counterpart.
As for the age issue, how old should the Kents have been when they found Clark? John Byrne (and most of the prior interpretations) went for 35-40, younger interpretations went for 25-30 (Well, SV went for a 30-35, but that was ballanced with Clark already being about four years old). Which, considering they are farmers in Kansas, is actually more likely the case for the time to have their first child.

But I guess, this is going way off topic, so this'll be my last post about this, in this thread at least.

Mat001

12-03-2009, 12:53 PM

I know how Glover looked. I still don't think that Waid intentionally told the artists to draw Lex's father like Glover on SV.

He could've. It could've been Yu working on his own. But given the resemblences, it's not a stretch to think he didn't influence it.

The characterization is much too different.

That doesn't mean much. It's still taken from an outside source. A name and likeness.

And for the name, you previously dismissed the Secret Files background on the issue that Lex's father is not really Lex's father but a payed actor. With taking the name from the Secret Files, you contradicted your own rules.

I said that the name debuted in there. And the explaination for who he was debuted in there. I never once dismissed the Secret Files book. However, the point remains. Lex had a relationship with his father and it ended in his death, which then lead Lex to leave Smallville.

Well, if you did, you'd find far less SV references and far more Superboy references in Birthright. Like the lab accident causing Lex to lose his hair.

I know about the lab accident from way before this.

So, because it is the expected action (or lack of it) of the character, it's a reference to SV? Doesn't really make sense to me. In the season one finale of SV, Lex didn't help his father, because he didn't like him. In Birthright he didn't save him, because he was occupied with his rage over Smallville. To pass that as a SV reference is really stretching it.

Nonetheless, it's what people noticed and commented on.

Seriously, WTF? I guess the duel in A Fistful of Dollars is a reference to the duel in High Noon. I mean, the executions and driving forces are different, but the concepts are the same, right?

No, it's that way when they are connected by a narrative. "Birthright" is linked to "Smallville" as much as it is to previous iterations of the comics. "A Fistful Of Dollars" is not linked to "High Noon" other than being westerns.

As for the characters looking like the actors, I'd guess that was an editorial choice, since it carried over to the regular titles.

Up to that point, this almost never happened. Maybe hairstyles being adopted or minor bits of characterization. But out and out likeness changes, that didn't start until the last few years. I think it became an editoral decision after "Birthright" came out, but it started as something the creative team ddi.

And that's nothing out of the ordinary, really. Back in the 90s, the comics' Martha was redesigned to look more like K Callan from Lois & Clark, just as some of the other characters were redesigned to resemble their tv counterpart.

I mentioned hairstyle changes. But Martha still looked like the comic version. As did Jonathan. Lois had her hair changed, but the color was still the same and her face still looked like Lois. Yu and Guedes did both hair and facial features. Just as Gary Frank did with Superman, Lois, Zod and Ursa.

As for the age issue, how old should the Kents have been when they found Clark? John Byrne (and most of the prior interpretations) went for 35-40, younger interpretations went for 25-30 (Well, SV went for a 30-35, but that was ballanced with Clark already being about four years old). Which, considering they are farmers in Kansas, is actually more likely the case for the time to have their first child.

When they found him is not the problem. Most have no problem with them being 38-40 on the day he arrived. It's how old they are in the present that raised a few eyebrows. In nearly every iteration, they were in their early 60's and were gray haired by the time Clark left town.

twincast

12-09-2009, 03:06 AM

Routh was pretty much the only thing decent about the movie, but since they're going for a full reboot now I can't see TPTB keeping him.

edit: the bads being the costume (tiny plastic S), Luthor's maniacal 007-villain plot of yesteryear complete with silly henchmen, the lack of action, most other actors' performance,...

Dr.Vulture

12-16-2009, 07:13 PM

My problem with Superman Returns wasn't Brandon Routh or any of the actors/actresses involved, it was the story itself!!! Unrelated in any way to Superman comics.....except the character's names.

Get a new screen writer (J. Michael Straczynski & Geoff Johns together would be my "dream" choice), a new director (Dream Choice: James Cameron) and stick with the comics!!

The Batman

12-16-2009, 07:50 PM

Unrelated in any way to Superman comics?

Dr.Vulture

12-18-2009, 12:56 AM

Unrelated in any way to Superman comics?

Poor choice of words perhaps...lol....what I meant to say is this:

Superman is married, not single. He is NOT a deadbeat Dad. Singer simply took the character and changed everything that made him Superman! His integrity, and true "goodguy-ness" are the essence of who Superman is.....

If they would have stayed true to the comics (like the first 4 movies), they could have done much better at the box office.....while the first 4 could be argued to have gone away a little from the comics, the character of Superman was not changed.

Sorry for not being more clear.

The Batman

12-18-2009, 06:34 PM

Well, Superman spent about sixty-odd years being single so I'm not sure that the best example of "changed everything that made him Superman!" He certainly wasn't a deadbeat dad in the movie, unless of course we've decided willy-nilly to change what the term means. As for integrity, heroism, or "goodguy-ness," well, I'm not sure how those words don't apply to the guy in the movie that was flying around helping people, saving lives, and willing to sacrifice his own without a second thought to save everybody.

Andreas Tanis

12-23-2009, 11:45 PM

I liked Brandon Routh as Superman, but at the same time in SR I feel as if he didn't have enough to do as Superman. I'd like to see him return with more to do, and return in a universe that is separate from the Donner films.

Capricons

12-28-2009, 07:50 AM

Yeah they should bring him back, so Batman can beat the EVER LIVING CRAP OF OUT HIM
(I dont care if its Bale Batman or not)

http://annikarei.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/batmanvssupermanmontagemo5.jpg

Welling and his silly tv series is way more Superman then Routh is without ever getting a big movie or even wearing the suit, Routh is the worst Superman maybe even worse than Dean Cain

The Batman

12-28-2009, 12:53 PM

Beat the ever living crap out of him? It look's like Bale's about to kiss him.

Solaris01

12-28-2009, 06:13 PM

Beat the ever living crap out of him? It look's like Bale's about to kiss him.

Hahaha!! :tongue:

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs12/300W/i/2006/295/8/d/_slash__Batman_Superman_by_silenth.jpg

:wink:

Solaris01

12-28-2009, 06:18 PM

Oh, yeah, and Brandon Routh IS Superman.

http://repairstemcell.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/superman-returns.jpg

http://www.unificationfrance.com/IMG/jpg/superman_returns_1-2.jpg

http://gossiplist.com/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/b_routh_3.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/doubledown44/2.jpg

Kai "the spy"

12-30-2009, 08:58 AM

... Routh is the worst Superman ...
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/975/worstsupermanever3.jpg

Captain Smith

12-30-2009, 01:45 PM

That car lifting picture is just more evidence why Routh is too much Abercrombie and Fitch-el and not KAL-EL.

Just looks like a mildly buff yuppy at Halloween dressup.

Andreas Tanis

12-30-2009, 07:19 PM

The way the shot looks falls more on Singer than Routh...so if anyone is to be blamed, it's Singer. Routh only acted the way he was directed to act, and I thought he did a good job, but he needs to be under the direction of someone willing to step out of the Donnerverse and do something new within the universe of the movies. There's a lot of ground to cover with Superman as far as movies go and the surface of which could be covered has yet to even be scratched.

bluebeetle73

01-01-2010, 12:29 AM

I think Routh was a good successor and captured the essence of Reeve, but if they try to update/reboot the franchise he would not be a good choice.

Daybreak_st

01-05-2010, 12:56 PM

He did a great job as Clark Kent for the little screen time he had. I would’ve loved to see more of his Clark as a fully fleshed out character but alas he’s not in the movie much. The Clark on the farm isn’t given the chance to say anything, which again is unfortunate.

His superman was just derivative of Reeve but with less success. He just didn’t say anything or come across as a fully formed character. More the writer/directors fault than his. The most off-putting part about his superman though was his look. Specifically the fixed/ gelled hair with a separate spit-curl in front. It looked so plastic and fake. He really did look like a person dressed up as superman rather than superman himself as Reeve pulled off. I once saw a fan manipulation of him with more natural hair with a naturally occurring subtle s-curl and he looked much better in costume (there were also a few changes made to the costume).

He didn’t add anything to role of superman unfortunately. If he was given more freedom maybe he could’ve shined through the mediocre material but alas, he didn’t. So I’d say give someone else a shot if they do a reboot. If it’s a sequel then sure give him another shot.

One thing I do like about him is that he is a superman fan himself, and it’s a shame the movie was such a disappointment.