Dick Grayson may still be Batman a little longer?

[DetectiveDupin]

Lot's of people have asked me to confirm this, but I finally have a link to now:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23268

However, when asked if Dick Grayson as the new Batman is something that's here to stay, Sattler replied, "I hope so. We have a lot up our sleeve. Grant has quite a bit of story to tell with our friend in the cave. We'll see how it goes." Sattler then indicated the naked Mego on the panel table and said, "When Bruce shows up this is going to be his costume."

"It feels right at this juncture in time" said Tomasi. "It feels organic and it's a right step for the character. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out"

"I love Damian. He's the dude you love to hate because he's such a jerkface," said Sattler. "Between Batman and Damian and Red Robin, that's stuff we're keeping in continuity. Expect this to be the way it is and long term. … We have really great long term plans right now. I hope you like it, because we're keeping it as long as we can"

I actually like this idea a lot. And I fully support this.

[nightwing45]

The editors always say it's long term, and then a year later, or some times months later; boom. Continuity is swept away by a new change in writers, artists, and editors. Morrison's run won't stay in continuity. You can keep posting links about what editors say until the cows come home, but it won't mean anything.

[Personamanx]

It won't happen. I wish Grayson would stay as Batman for good but it's not happening.
I'll probably drop most of my Bat-Books when Bruce comes back.

[WorstThingUS]

Morrison's run won't stay in continuity.

And you base this on what, exactly?

[DetectiveDupin]

The editors always say it's long term, and then a year later, or some times months later; boom. Continuity is swept away by a new change in writers, artists, and editors. Morrison's run won't stay in continuity. You can keep posting links about what editors say until the cows come home, but it won't mean anything.

Really, that's why we have estblished characters and storylines right? Year One, yea right, never happened!


You really have to lose the notion that this is going to be retconned. You don't work for DC, you can't assume you know everything. Information like this is our best chance at discerning the future of this title. Morrison's run has consistently sold well, and is one of the greatest things to happen to the medium in years. It won't be retconned. Your post doesn't mean anything. Just because you don't like a story doesn't mean it didn't happen. Guess what? I didn't like Infinite Crisis. But it did happen, and plots from that story are still used today. Learn to accept this is the new status quo.

[DetectiveDupin]

It won't happen. I wish Grayson would stay as Batman for good but it's not happening.
I'll probably drop most of my Bat-Books when Bruce comes back.

Grant Morrison has repatedly stated that he would like to do stories that involve Bruce Wayne without that cowl. People are under the notion that they're saying Bruce isn't coming back. He is. He just won't be Batman for a little bit longer. I would at least like 3 years worth of Dick Grayson and Damian stories. That may be a bit much, but I'm guessing Bruce won't be Batman come next June.

[DetectiveDupin]

And you base this on what, exactly?

He bases that on wishful thinking.

[carabas]

Continuity is swept away by a new change in writers, artists, and editors. Morrison's run won't stay in continuity.Does this happen a lot, that editors wipe generally popular stories that you personally dilslike a lot from continuity?

[DetectiveDupin]

Does this happen a lot, that editors wipe generally popular stories that you personally dilslike a lot from continuity?

Apparently Nightwing45 has the literary taste of God.

[nightwing45]

Really, that's why we have estblished characters and storylines right? Year One, yea right, never happened!


You really have to lose the notion that this is going to be retconned. You don't work for DC, you can't assume you know everything. Information like this is our best chance at discerning the future of this title. Morrison's run has consistently sold well, and is one of the greatest things to happen to the medium in years. It won't be retconned. Your post doesn't mean anything. Just because you don't like a story doesn't mean it didn't happen. Guess what? I didn't like Infinite Crisis. But it did happen, and plots from that story are still used today. Learn to accept this is the new status quo.


Year One was hugely successful, and a monumental center piece that harkened back to Batman's roots. It will always be a fixture of DC's lore. What Morrison has done is cheap shock tactics that will be ret-conned when the next editor comes along, and it's decided that they want a different feel for the bat universe. That's the way it's always been in comics; only the works that stand above the rest remain untouched. Morrison's Batman run hasn't reached the likes of Miller's DD, and Batman, or anything else.

[DarkKnghtJared]

Grant Morrison has repatedly stated that he would like to do stories that involve Bruce Wayne without that cowl. People are under the notion that they're saying Bruce isn't coming back. He is. He just won't be Batman for a little bit longer. I would at least like 3 years worth of Dick Grayson and Damian stories. That may be a bit much, but I'm guessing Bruce won't be Batman come next June.

That was what I was thinking too--that Bruce Wayne will come back, probably from Blackest Night, but Dick and Damian will still be Batman and Robin.

[WorstThingUS]

Year One was hugely successful, and a monumental center piece that harkened back to Batman's roots. It will always be a fixture of DC's lore. What Morrison has done is cheap shock tactics that will be ret-conned when the next editor comes along, and it's decided that they want a different feel for the bat universe. That's the way it's always been in comics; only the works that stand above the rest remain untouched. Morrison's Batman run hasn't reached the likes of Miller's DD, and Batman, or anything else.

If every story that wasn't a masterpiece was wiped from continuity....you'd have no continuity. That Magpie and other lame villains are showing up all over Darkest Night is proof of how much sub-par work is still part of Batman's history.

Okay, so you've answered my question. This attitude is based purely on your dislike of Morrison, nothing actually resembling a fact.

[AJM]

The editors always say it's long term, and then a year later, or some times months later; boom. Continuity is swept away by a new change in writers, artists, and editors. Morrison's run won't stay in continuity. You can keep posting links about what editors say until the cows come home, but it won't mean anything.

And you can keep posting comments that claim Morrison's tales will be retconned, which means even less because there is absolutely no evidence for it.

Year One was hugely successful, and a monumental center piece that harkened back to Batman's roots. It will always be a fixture of DC's lore. What Morrison has done is cheap shock tactics that will be ret-conned when the next editor comes along, and it's decided that they want a different feel for the bat universe. That's the way it's always been in comics; only the works that stand above the rest remain untouched. Morrison's Batman run hasn't reached the likes of Miller's DD, and Batman, or anything else.

Says who? Morrison's 'cheap shock tactics' have resulted in DC's biggest hit for a long time, which is why they've already extended his run from one year to two and are planning to keep Dick in the Batman role for a lot longer than originally planned. Morrison's Batman has been a massive success whether you like it or not, sorry. It's too early to say if it will achieve the classic status of Year One, but i'm confident that Batman And Robin will because it's the best mainstream comic on the shelves - and most Batman readers agree.

As for Bruce coming back but not as Batman, i think that'll be great.

[Mikey Brown]

Nightwing45 likes Morrison, hes got JLA earth2! He will tell ya! He will show it to you!

[Sn4tcH]

Nightwing45 likes Morrison, hes got JLA earth2! He will tell ya! He will show it to you!

I got a good laugh out of this.

Anyway, perhaps he's remembering how Marvel treated Morrison's run on New X-men? Basically that entire run was retconned or forgotten. (and ironically enough, why I've sworn off X-men comics)

And I think that's the absolute worse you can expect to happen to Morrison's run. Maybe some day people will forget that it ever happened. But that will be years, and most likely decades.

Either that or another Crisis... (Morrison Crisis?)

[Raharu]

I like Morrison, but he always tends to bring out the worst in both sides of fandom :(

I don't think there's any guarantee that any of his run will be rectonned, but to deny the fact that it's possible is, quite frankly, ridiculous. All you have to do is look at his run on X-Men to see that simply is not true. All you have to do is look at the past 10-20 years in comics to see that simply is not true. I'll tell you right now I'll just call that Morrison's Joker won't last past his run. The rest of it, I don't know, maybe. I won't be surprised if Damien is phased out or if Dr. Hurt is rectonned to something a little more down to Earth. Outside that, it's up for grabs I'd say

[Godlike13]

Im good with this long term, but still half think their just ****ing with us :cool: .

[Raharu]

As far as Dick as Batman, I personally never thought it should have happened to begin with, so I have no care either way they do with it. They want to bring Bruce back full time as Batman again in the next year, that's fine to me, if they want to bring him back and let Dick be Batman a little longer that's okay, too.

Personally, I will say I would like Dick to go back to Nightwing sooner rather than later

[InSovietRussia]

I suggest keeping on Grayson as Batman indefinitely, with an on-going Bruce Wayne feature back in the Neolithic Age or wherever they sent him... a sort of "Batman meets Anthro/ Land of the Lost" thing. I'd certainly more interested in that than a return to the status quo.

[WorstThingUS]

I like Morrison, but he always tends to bring out the worst in both sides of fandom :(

I don't think there's any guarantee that any of his run will be rectonned, but to deny the fact that it's possible is, quite frankly, ridiculous. All you have to do is look at his run on X-Men to see that simply is not true. All you have to do is look at the past 10-20 years in comics to see that simply is not true. I'll tell you right now I'll just call that Morrison's Joker won't last past his run. The rest of it, I don't know, maybe. I won't be surprised if Damien is phased out or if Dr. Hurt is rectonned to something a little more down to Earth. Outside that, it's up for grabs I'd say

Virtually anything can be retconned, it's just that the poster is pretty much insisting it's going to be changed because he doesn't think these are appropriate Batman stories and no other reason. Given that Condiment King is still part of Batman's continuity, that's a massive delusion on his part.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

I am enjoying Grayson as Batman right now, but its not something I would want to be permanent. I also hope that they will begin telling Bruce's story soon, as I miss the character.

[Raharu]

Virtually anything can be retconned, it's just that the poster is pretty much insisting it's going to be changed because he doesn't think these are appropriate Batman stories and no other reason. Given that Condiment King is still part of Batman's continuity, that's a massive delusion on his part.

I was speaking to both of them. Both seem to have 'delusions', as you will, about the idea that something is going to or not going to stick around because of certain reasons. I mostly focused on the other side as I think Nightwing45's view was already fairly well dissected

[Lew Moxon]

I'm no fan of Richard Grayson. But even with that said, I think keeping a new guy as Batman up till 2012 might be a good idea. I just wish that if that were the case Batman Confidential was written much better. That way we could have the best of two worlds, the adventures of Grayson in the modern day, and the adventures of Bruce Wayne in the past. No need to keep the Wayne stories neolithic.

Though the fact that a lot of Batman fans seem to not be fond of Bruce Wayne really surprises me. I assume those who don't want Wayne back simply don't like him. I may be wrong.

[Sn4tcH]

Given that Condiment King is still part of Batman's continuity, that's a massive delusion on his part.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Sn4tcH/Robin171-01.jpg

Though the fact that a lot of Batman fans seem to not be fond of Bruce Wayne really surprises me. I assume those who don't want Wayne back simply don't like him. I may be wrong.

Personally, I've found Dick Grayson and Tim Drake more interesting for years now. Probably around the time Knightfall happened, I really latched on to them more than Bruce.

[Lew Moxon]

Personally, I've found Dick Grayson and Tim Drake more interesting for years now. Probably around the time Knightfall happened, I really latched on to them more than Bruce.

I'd be more than interested in a Tim Drake as Batman storyline. That is if the "better detective than Bruce" element was played up. Or a Batman operating without Alfred, without help. Living alone like Bruce did in 1939. Somehow if done right I think a Drake as the successor run would be a lot of fun. I know that makes me a hypocrite for not really liking the Grayson as Batman thing, but it's a matter of taste. You know that scene in year one where Bruce tells Falcone and Loeb that "from this moment none of you are safe" I can't see Grayson doing that, or anything similar. I can't see him doing typical Batman things.

I also think that the main problem with Bruce is that he's become an over prepared Batgod for whom no opponent is a true threat. Not even Dr. Simon "The Devil" Hurt. I like a lot of Morrisons run, but I can see why some people hate that. I have my problems with it as well.

I just don't think Bruce has to be Morrison's Batgod.

[DetectiveDupin]

I got a good laugh out of this.

Anyway, perhaps he's remembering how Marvel treated Morrison's run on New X-men? Basically that entire run was retconned or forgotten. (and ironically enough, why I've sworn off X-men comics)

And I think that's the absolute worse you can expect to happen to Morrison's run. Maybe some day people will forget that it ever happened. But that will be years, and most likely decades.

Either that or another Crisis... (Morrison Crisis?)

Not being snarky because I like you Sn4tch, but DC isn't Marvel. For the most part they're good with continuity, however bad choices were made. (Trials of Shazam?)

[DetectiveDupin]

Year One was hugely successful, and a monumental center piece that harkened back to Batman's roots. It will always be a fixture of DC's lore. What Morrison has done is cheap shock tactics that will be ret-conned when the next editor comes along, and it's decided that they want a different feel for the bat universe. That's the way it's always been in comics; only the works that stand above the rest remain untouched. Morrison's Batman run hasn't reached the likes of Miller's DD, and Batman, or anything else.

Yeah, consistently being DC's top-selling title doesn't mean successful at all.

[DetectiveDupin]

That was what I was thinking too--that Bruce Wayne will come back, probably from Blackest Night, but Dick and Damian will still be Batman and Robin.

It's been planned. Check the link :)

[DetectiveDupin]

Im good with this long term, but still half think their just ****ing with us :cool: .

Not to be that guy, but Captain Jim doesn't like us cussing.

[Captain Jim]

I don't know anyone who thinks Dick Grayson will stay Batman forever. But to suggest that a huge sales hit like this, by one of DC's most popular writers, will be retconned is, quite frankly, laughable.

[DetectiveDupin]

I like Morrison, but he always tends to bring out the worst in both sides of fandom :(

I don't think there's any guarantee that any of his run will be rectonned, but to deny the fact that it's possible is, quite frankly, ridiculous. All you have to do is look at his run on X-Men to see that simply is not true. All you have to do is look at the past 10-20 years in comics to see that simply is not true. I'll tell you right now I'll just call that Morrison's Joker won't last past his run. The rest of it, I don't know, maybe. I won't be surprised if Damien is phased out or if Dr. Hurt is rectonned to something a little more down to Earth. Outside that, it's up for grabs I'd say

Once again, DC isn't Marvel. Grant hasn't done anything yet that blocked returning to the status quo. Morrison's Joker isn't supposed to last, Morrison himself explains the continuous retcon with his "super sanity" theory. I doubt Damian will be retconned, killed maybe, but that's way too big of a retcon. You can't retcon Dr. Hurt. I think most writers respect Grant enough to leave that completely alone, never even touching upon that. It's his story. I would only accept a retcon from Morrison himself to be honest.

[Captain Jim]

Also from yesterday's convention news (this from Newsarama):

Q: he really likes that Grayson has taken the mantle "We've been waiting for this since the 50s, really wanting Dick". Can we let him keep the mantle, even when Bruce comes back?

A: Bob Wayne "maaaaybe"

Well, at least he didn't say "no comment."

[DetectiveDupin]

I am enjoying Grayson as Batman right now, but its not something I would want to be permanent. I also hope that they will begin telling Bruce's story soon, as I miss the character.

It's obviously not going to permanent, just stretched out a bit longer. I miss Bruce too, and I look forward to his return. But once again people- He is coming back, but he won't be Batman right away.

[Captain Jim]

Also, since the topic of the Joker has come up, DC had this to say at the convention:.

When Joker comes back, it will NOT be what you expect.

Interesting.

[DetectiveDupin]

Also from yesterday's convention news (this from Newsarama):



Well, at least he didn't say "no comment."

Nice!! But all in all I think Dick will probably have another year or two than planned.

[DetectiveDupin]

Also, since the topic of the Joker has come up, DC had this to say at the convention:.



Interesting.

Hmm...I wonder where this is going. Do far he's my number one suspect for being the true identity of Oberon Sexton.

[DetectiveDupin]

Though the fact that a lot of Batman fans seem to not be fond of Bruce Wayne really surprises me. I assume those who don't want Wayne back simply don't like him. I may be wrong.

I love Bruce. He's my favorite literary character ever. I would just like to see Dick's tenure as Batman go on for a bit longer, since it will likely never happen for another decade or maybe even longer.

[DetectiveDupin]

I'd be more than interested in a Tim Drake as Batman storyline. That is if the "better detective than Bruce" element was played up. Or a Batman operating without Alfred, without help. Living alone like Bruce did in 1939. Somehow if done right I think a Drake as the successor run would be a lot of fun. I know that makes me a hypocrite for not really liking the Grayson as Batman thing, but it's a matter of taste. You know that scene in year one where Bruce tells Falcone and Loeb that "from this moment none of you are safe" I can't see Grayson doing that, or anything similar. I can't see him doing typical Batman things.

I also think that the main problem with Bruce is that he's become an over prepared Batgod for whom no opponent is a true threat. Not even Dr. Simon "The Devil" Hurt. I like a lot of Morrisons run, but I can see why some people hate that. I have my problems with it as well.

I just don't think Bruce has to be Morrison's Batgod.

Initially a lot of people had problems with the Tim idea because A) He's too young and isn't as good as Bruce or Dick and B) He didn't have the build of a man. My problem with that idea is that Tim is too much like Bruce. Dark, brooding, analytical... Dick is certainly different. It makes for a much more refreshing story IMO.

[Raharu]

I don't know anyone who thinks Dick Grayson will stay Batman forever. But to suggest that a huge sales hit like this, by one of DC's most popular writers, will be retconned is, quite frankly, laughable.

Really? Man Of Steel? Gods And Mortals? Emerald Twilight? New X-Men (For Marvel anyway, but same creator, same situation)? All of those fit that criteria at one time. That's no safe guard from future rectonning

Once again, DC isn't Marvel. Grant hasn't done anything yet that blocked returning to the status quo. Morrison's Joker isn't supposed to last, Morrison himself explains the continuous retcon with his "super sanity" theory. I doubt Damian will be retconned, killed maybe, but that's way too big of a retcon. You can't retcon Dr. Hurt. I think most writers respect Grant enough to leave that completely alone, never even touching upon that. It's his story. I would only accept a retcon from Morrison himself to be honest.

I never said recton Damian, but phase him out. They can recton his relation, though. You 'can't' recton Dr. Hurt? I'm sorry, but that's very naive.

No, DC isn't Marvel, but DC has its share of continuity hiccups and rectons. As I said, no offense here, but you're being very naive about this whole thing and letting what you like cloud what is possible. Simply put, when it comes down to infinite continuity, there is no safeguard

[Kiryu]

Also, since the topic of the Joker has come up, DC had this to say at the convention:.



Interesting.

That's actually exactly what I expected. I kinda feel like thinking that the Thin White Duke will return when Morrison uses the Joker kinda misses the whole point of Morrison's re-invention theme. I fully expect the Joker to be completely different next time Grant uses, or else what would be the point?

And really, who cares what happens to Morrison's plot elements after he leaves? I know I don't. Absolutely NO writer working on a Bat-book has shown they can write Damian well, let alone in line with how Morrison writes him. I dig Paul Dini, but expecting him to adequately use Morrison's Joker is crazy.

Would I like to see a lot of the elements Morrison introduced kept around? Sure, if someone can do them well. But I'd rather have them be gone then used poorly, like they are in every other Bat-book.

[DetectiveDupin]

Really? Man Of Steel? Gods And Mortals? Emerald Twilight? New X-Men (For Marvel anyone, but same creator, same situation)? All of those fit that criteria at one time. That's no safe guard from future rectonning



I never said recton Damian, but phase him out. They can recton his relation, though. You 'can't' recton Dr. Hurt? I'm sorry, but that's very naive.

No, DC isn't Marvel, but DC has its share of continuity hiccups and rectons. As I said, no offense here, but you're being very naive about this whole thing and letting what you like cloud what is possible. Simply put, when it comes down to infinite continuity, there is no safeguard

I completely agree that there isn't an absolute on this issue. But IMO it's highly unlikely that they will.

[Raharu]

Yeah, consistently being DC's top-selling title doesn't mean successful at all.

I don't think he was talking in terms of sales, but more of status. I'm sure there's plenty of series and runs that have sold well, but had no real shelf life or 'classic' status much longer afterward.

It's pretty much impossible to say whether Morrison's Batman run can be that at this point either way

[DetectiveDupin]

He wasn't talking in terms of sales, but more of status. I'm sure there's plenty of series and runs that have sold well, but had no real shelf life or 'classic' status much longer afterward.

It's pretty much impossible to say whether Morrison's Batman run can be that at that point either way

IMO Grant Morrison's Batman has been one of the best things to happen to the medium this decade. It's an epic, and is actually just one, entirely big story. I feel as if it is a literary accomplishment. As of right now, I feel it is going to be a classic. Again, this is IMO.

[Raharu]

Well, I disagree with almost all of that, but either way, it's way too early to be proclaiming this in such terms as 'classic' or 'overrated, but good' or 'complete junk that stole the public eye'. We have to at least let it finish first, especially since Morrison has said he's written it in parts. Unfortunately, fandom is so quick to take a side before that it'll take a few years and some later re-evaluating to see how it really stands

[DetectiveDupin]

Well, I disagree with almost all of that, but either way, it's way too early to be proclaiming this in such terms as 'classic' or 'overrated, but good' or 'complete junk that stole the public eye'. We have to at least let it finish first, especially since Morrison has said he's written it in parts. Unfortunately, fandom is so quick to take a side before that it'll take a few years and some later re-evaluating to see how it really stands

Quite true, but I've just really loved this so far.

[Captain Jim]

Really? Man Of Steel? Gods And Mortals? Emerald Twilight? New X-Men (For Marvel anyway, but same creator, same situation)? All of those fit that criteria at one time. That's no safe guard from future rectonning

I'm not familiar with New X-men, but I'm not sure that's germane here anyway. (Guess I don't know what Gods and Mortals is either.) As far as MOS and ET are concerned, I'd say they've been tweaked more than retconned. But sure, who knows what will happen 20 years from now? But as I recall, the OP was suggesting that Morrison's material would be retconned away as soon as he left the Batman books. That's what I said (and still say) is laughable.

[Lew Moxon]

Initially a lot of people had problems with the Tim idea because A) He's too young and isn't as good as Bruce or Dick and B) He didn't have the build of a man. My problem with that idea is that Tim is too much like Bruce. Dark, brooding, analytical... Dick is certainly different. It makes for a much more refreshing story IMO.

I didn't necessarily mean Tim as Batman now, my ideas more concerned a future Drake as Batman, more like four or five or even a decade from the present day. But I have some questions about "isn't as good as Dick" what does that mean exactly? Is it a matter of detective skills or fighting ability or something else I'm missing. I can definitely accept and understand the too young thing. He's at best nineteen, which is too young. In five or six years (comic book time) though? He'd make a rather natural sucessor to Bruce personality wise.

[Raharu]

I'm not familiar with New X-men, but I'm not sure that's germane here anyway. (Guess I don't know what Gods and Mortals is either.) As far as MOS and ET are concerned, I'd say they've been tweaked more than retconned. But sure, who knows what will happen 20 years from now? But as I recall, the OP was suggesting that Morrison's material would be retconned away as soon as he left the Batman books. That's what I said (and still say) is laughable.

Gods and Mortals is Wonder Woman's origin story (The first volume of Perez's run) which, from my understanding, has been rectonning significantly to the point that they may be doing a 'Secret Origins' to the new official one. MOS is officially rectonned out with SO, but before that there were some significant changes to it with other. ET is true, but I felt the recton was so huge it more or less destroyed the story in hindsight.

New X-Men wasn't totally rectonned out of continuity or anything, but there was a lot of changes and alterations and one huge recton (Xorn) that lessened the impact of his run, at least as far as continuity is concerned. And at least one of them happened just a month after Morrison left the book, if memory serves.

[DetectiveDupin]

I didn't necessarily mean Tim as Batman now, my ideas more concerned a future Drake as Batman, more like four or five or even a decade from the present day. But I have some questions about "isn't as good as Dick" what does that mean exactly? Is it a matter of detective skills or fighting ability or something else I'm missing. I can definitely accept and understand the too young thing. He's at best nineteen, which is too young. In five or six years (comic book time) though? He'd make a rather natural sucessor to Bruce personality wise.

Personality wise, yes he's like Bruce. But Dick is far more experienced, probably more experienced than most heroes in the DCU, even some that are older than him. He is much more of an athlete, but he's got the right balance of smarts and strength to actually do the job. Tim is still a teenager and is prone to having the same issues teenagers always face. Tim actually doesn't want to always be out on the field, he does want to be the world's greatest detective though.

[DetectiveDupin]

Gods and Mortals is Wonder Woman's origin story (The first volume of Perez's run) which, from my understanding, has been rectonning significantly to the point that they may be doing a 'Secret Origins' to the new official one. MOS is officially rectonned out with SO, but before that there were some significant changes to it with other. ET is true, but I felt the recton was so huge it more or less destroyed the story in hindsight.

New X-Men wasn't totally rectonned out of continuity or anything, but there was a lot of changes and alterations and one huge recton (Xorn) that lessened the impact of his run, at least as far as continuity is concerned. And at least one of them happened just a month after Morrison left the book, if memory serves.

I don't think any of those sold nearly as well as Morrison's Batman run has though, save for his New X-men, which as you mentioned hasn't been completely retconned, just altered. Emerald Twilight was altered too.

[Raharu]

Originally, no I would say that Man of Steel and probably Gods and Mortals definitely sold as much if not better. Comics, in general, I think sold more on average back in that time period. They may have been just 'alters' and not totally rectonned away, but they were significant alters that changed the story in huge ways.

Anyway, sells is irrelevant to that point anyway. On top of that point though, both of MOS and GAM were, and still are, very highly regarded and were piloted by two mega names of the time, Perez and Byrne. So, that goes to show you, even name recognition and high regard, even for years, can't safeguards from rectonning

[DetectiveDupin]

Originally, no I would say that Man of Steel and probably Gods and Mortals definitely sold as much if not better. Comics, in general, I think sold more on average back in that time period. They may have been just 'alters' and not totally rectonned away, but they were significant alters that changed the story in huge ways.

Anyway, sells is irrelevant to that point anyway

Well since we are beating a dead horse, let's get the discussion back on track? What are your views on this?

[Raharu]

Well since we are beating a dead horse, let's get the discussion back on track? What are your views on this?

On what? Dick being Batman longer?

This:

As far as Dick as Batman, I personally never thought it should have happened to begin with, so I have no care either way they do with it. They want to bring Bruce back full time as Batman again in the next year, that's fine to me, if they want to bring him back and let Dick be Batman a little longer that's okay, too.

Personally, I will say I would like Dick to go back to Nightwing sooner rather than later

[bongoes]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Sn4tcH/Robin171-01.jpg

WHAT IS THIS FROM? I NEED TO KNOW.

Seriously, that looks hilarious.

[DetectiveDupin]

On what? Dick being Batman longer?

This:

Oh yeah, I'm sorry.

[WorstThingUS]

WHAT IS THIS FROM? I NEED TO KNOW.

Seriously, that looks hilarious.

Probably Robin#171 or Final Crisis Aftermath Run. CK has only had a handful of appearances outside of the animated series where he first appeared.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7923/condimentkingiy2.jpg

[carabas]

Year One was hugely successful, and a monumental center piece that harkened back to Batman's roots. So was Year Two, and look what happened to that.

What Morrison has done is cheap shock tacticsIn what way is this 'shock tactics'? What is the shock bit?

that will be ret-conned when the next editor comes alongWell, if you're willing to wait a couple of decades, sooner ot later absolutelyu every story gets retconned, no matter how awful or excellent it was.
Nature of a shared universe that isn't allowed to progrss, really.

[Ninja Man-Bats]

the problem is that every writer wants to create their own characters and let them take over the show. so someone will come along and defeat Damian to show how strong the new guy is. new villainswill haveto make you forget how powerful the previous ones were.

but no one will ever be able to say that Nightwing wasn't Batman. what would really piss me off though is if another writer suddenly revealed Damian was not Bruce's son.

New - Xmen wasn;t that given to Chuck Austen? that explains what happened right there.

[carabas]

New - Xmen wasn;t that given to Chuck Austen? that explains what happened right there.I am not one to defend Chuck Bloody Austen, but he is not to blame there: editorial had given him rather specific things to write about.

[Sn4tcH]

New - Xmen wasn;t that given to Chuck Austen? that explains what happened right there.

I think Chuck Austen was writing Uncanny at the same time the New X-men was being released.

WHAT IS THIS FROM? I NEED TO KNOW.

Seriously, that looks hilarious.

That was from Robin #171, and he was also in Batgirl: Year One #8, Birds Of Prey #37, and apparently died in Final Crisis Aftermath: Run, but I haven't read that.

[carabas]

I think Chuck Austen was writing Uncanny at the same time the New X-men was being released.After Morrison quit Austen wrote a story spread across both books, and then took over Not-so-New X-Men while Claremont was transfered back to Uncanny from his canceled X-Treme X-Men.

And Joss Whedon, who was to take over from Morrison on New X-Men, got his own title instead.

Both Claremont and Austen pretty much carried on with what they were doing on their previous books, while Whedon inherited theNew X-Men team.

[Raharu]

I think Chuck Austen was writing Uncanny at the same time the New X-men was being released.

He was. He moved on to New X-Men afterward, but the Xorn recton happened in Uncanny



That was from Robin #171, and he was also in Batgirl: Year One #8, Birds Of Prey #37, and apparently died in Final Crisis Aftermath: Run, but I haven't read that.

What, they killed the Condiment King? NO:mad:

[Mikey Brown]

Actually the recon was done by Claremont in Excaliber 1. Xorn was supposed to be Magneto and die but Claremont had Mags show up fine and dandy as if nothing had happened. It was finally fixed by Bendis in New Avengers. But back to Batman.

[carabas]

He was. He moved on to New X-Men afterward, but the Xorn recton happened in UncannyIt happened in an Austen-penned, editorially mandated story that spanned both Adjectiveles and Uncanny (they dropped the 'New' as soon s Morrison left).
And when that wrapped up, Austen took over Previously-New X-Men.

[DetectiveDupin]

Probably Robin#171 or Final Crisis Aftermath Run. CK has only had a handful of appearances outside of the animated series where he first appeared.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7923/condimentkingiy2.jpg

That has to be the worst costume any villain has ever worn.

[shinjiro15]

Grant Morrison has repatedly stated that he would like to do stories that involve Bruce Wayne without that cowl. People are under the notion that they're saying Bruce isn't coming back. He is. He just won't be Batman for a little bit longer. I would at least like 3 years worth of Dick Grayson and Damian stories. That may be a bit much, but I'm guessing Bruce won't be Batman come next June.

you are exactly right. and it wont even be like batman beyond either. Bruce will be more involved in business and the "community" al politcal figure while dick is batman. this will help keep things seperate in the public eyes.

then somehting big will happen to dick and bruce will be back as batman.

[Munkiman]

I'd definitely like at least two years of Dick as Batman, but no more than three or four. Bruce coming back is a given, but give Dick and Damian a little more time.

Morrison's run is about as likely to be retconned as Knightfall, or the Death of Superman, I think (since this is really just "The Death of Batman").

[DetectiveDupin]

I'd definitely like at least two years of Dick as Batman, but no more than three or four. Bruce coming back is a given, but give Dick and Damian a little more time.

Morrison's run is about as likely to be retconned as Knightfall, or the Death of Superman, I think (since this is really just "The Death of Batman").

Those stories weren't retconned.

[Munkiman]

Exactly. I was saying it probably wouldn't be retconned - once it's over, it probably won't damage the status quo in a major way, but it'll provide new elements to use in future stories.

[DetectiveDupin]

Exactly. I was saying it probably wouldn't be retconned - once it's over, it probably won't damage the status quo in a major way, but it'll provide new elements to use in future stories.

Oh, well then we're in agreement on that. I've said exactly the same thing in some earlier posts, and in all probability people only remember the stories they like.

[bongoes]

Probably Robin#171 or Final Crisis Aftermath Run. CK has only had a handful of appearances outside of the animated series where he first appeared.


That was from Robin #171, and he was also in Batgirl: Year One #8, Birds Of Prey #37, and apparently died in Final Crisis Aftermath: Run, but I haven't read that.

Thanks, I can't believe he's a real character.

[Raharu]

Actually the recon was done by Claremont in Excaliber 1. Xorn was supposed to be Magneto and die but Claremont had Mags show up fine and dandy as if nothing had happened. It was finally fixed by Bendis in New Avengers. But back to Batman.

It happened in an Austen-penned, editorially mandated story that spanned both Adjectiveles and Uncanny (they dropped the 'New' as soon s Morrison left).
And when that wrapped up, Austen took over Previously-New X-Men.

Blah, whatever that's been year ago. I can't remember everything perfectly:frown:

[FeminineMystique]

Lot's of people have asked me to confirm this, but I finally have a link to now:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23268

However, when asked if Dick Grayson as the new Batman is something that's here to stay, Sattler replied, "I hope so. We have a lot up our sleeve. Grant has quite a bit of story to tell with our friend in the cave. We'll see how it goes." Sattler then indicated the naked Mego on the panel table and said, "When Bruce shows up this is going to be his costume."

"It feels right at this juncture in time" said Tomasi. "It feels organic and it's a right step for the character. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out"

"I love Damian. He's the dude you love to hate because he's such a jerkface," said Sattler. "Between Batman and Damian and Red Robin, that's stuff we're keeping in continuity. Expect this to be the way it is and long term. … We have really great long term plans right now. I hope you like it, because we're keeping it as long as we can"

I actually like this idea a lot. And I fully support this.

Naked Bruce? YUM. Especially if he's sporting a few scars from his "Prehistoric adventure" (Another little fetish of mine:biggrin: ) And I'm glad to hear Dick is sticking around for a while yet, I'm liking him as Batman so far

[Jorriss]

Under the assumption Bruce comes back and becomes Batman very quickly, say within three months. This means Dick has to take up a new identity, and it most likely would be Nightwing again, if not without some variations. Where will damian go? Robin has always been Batmans side kick but would it work for him to just stick with Dick?

[Raharu]

He'll probably either stay Robin or DC will try to make him a standalone hero or make him a villain

[DetectiveDupin]

Under the assumption Bruce comes back and becomes Batman very quickly, say within three months. This means Dick has to take up a new identity, and it most likely would be Nightwing again, if not without some variations. Where will damian go? Robin has always been Batmans side kick but would it work for him to just stick with Dick?

When Bruce does return, Dick will probably be Nightwing again. God I hate Chris Kent. But anyway, like I've said before, Morrison will probably have Damian killed at the end of his run.